" Wow,somebody has a weird fixation with sexual misconduct in churches.
Kinda makes me not want to send my kids too church on the church bus while, I sleep in on Sunday morning any more.Or send them off with the youth pastor for a weekend sleep over while I get some much needed rest and relaxation.lol "

" Well said Vicky. It is better to be proactive than reactive. Unfortunately local church leaders I am betting will remain silent--firm believers in an out of site out of mind way of living. "

" As a former adult victim of pastoral sexual abuse and now a long-time counselor and advocate for victims and educator for clergy through The Hope of Survivors (http://www.thehopeofsurvivors.com), it is very important for clergy to maintain safeguards in their ministry. My husband is a pastor. We counsel and make visitations together. Much of the safeguarding is common sense. I'm a little concerned, frankly, about the tone of Ms. Techau's article, as it does appear there is more concern for protecting the reputation of the church and not the victims. Reporting news - as long as it is done tastefully, unbiased, and with the victim's privacy and safety in mind - is proper. All churches need to have an abuse prevention policy in place and procedures for victims to follow when reporting. The accused clergy has a right to a proper investigation and the prayers of the people who have been under his/her leadership. That doesn't mean there are no consequences for his actions. Forgiveness (from the congregation, community or even the victim) doesn't erase or negate any consequences. There should be revocation of ministerial credentials if he is guilty. There should be jail time in those states where it is considered a crime for a clergy member to violate a congregant. To expect the perpetrator to pay for his crime is not a lack of forgiveness - it's partial justice. Full vindication for the victim comes from God, as does her/his healing. The same is true for the pastor. Unfortunately, we have seldom seen truly repentant fallen clergy. Too often they are more sorry they got caught and have to face consequences, rather than being genuinely sorry for their sin and crime. A genuinely repentant abuser will not try to maintain his position in the pulpit or sway his congregation to follow him or blame the victim. King David admitted, owned, confessed and was genuinely repentant of his sin against Bathsheba. Yet, God still allowed him to face the consequences (death of four children, loss of respect in his kingdom, etc.), even though He had forgiven him. Please keep things in a proper perspective. God is no respector of persons. An abuser, whether clergy, educator, medical professional or whatever, should be held accountable for their crimes. "

" I'm in agreement with HopeSurvivors. The church I attend requires background checks on all volunteer leaders and employees who serve in a pastoral role. The leadership comes out strongly against a male ministering alone to a female and vice versa. The church's policy won't even let young men take children (who are not their own) to the restroom... a policy I personally have a challenge with because of the underlining assumptions, but in this day and age appearances are important. On the other hand, our church isn't in the habit of submitting press releases about its anti-abuse protections either. "

" "The church's policy won't even let young men take children (who are not their own) to the restroom... a policy I personally have a challenge with because of the underlining assumptions, but in this day and age appearances are important."

Children are abused much more often by men than they are by women. Simple statistics suggest that kids are much safer with women than they are with men. I wouldn't want any man taking my child to the restroom, whether he's young or old. Hopefully, a woman is present with him who could take children to the bathroom. "

" Yes, the policy is enforced, no questions asked.

I choose not to be offended by the rule, and choose to accept that the rule doesn't assume I'm an abuser of children simply because I'm male... I understand the statistics and the reasoning why the rule is in place. It's just sad, so sad that it's necessary, irrespective of the background checks. It reminds me of the billboard of a dad holding his daughter's hand, and imploring someone who sees this to call the child-abuse network.

With respect to this rule, though, I accept it, and pretend to believe that women are just better at that sort of thing! Of course, that doesn't work with my wife when the baby needs a diaper change... :-) "

" Nicely written, HopeSurvivors. I was not familiar with your organization.

LOL Collatine, my husband often pulled diaper duty. He's always been more patient than I am. "

" At my church, we have a policy in place that requires that there always be 2 people, who have had a background check within the last 2 years, who are at least 6 years older than the oldest child, who are not related to work with children. This helps in preventing opportunity for someone to abuse a child. "

" Susan, you wrote, "It is better to be proactive than reactive. Unfortunately local church leaders I am betting will remain silent--firm believers in an out of site out of mind way of living."

You are correct, plus I believe that there are some churches around here that have skeletons rattling in their closets. Still, I have received many compliments re. my letters from friends who are dedicated Christians and church members.

On the other hand, and what was SO discouraging--the attitude towards sexual abuse revealed by Carol Techau's letter. It would be nice if she were someone on the church fringes, but she isn't. She and her husband were pastors (may still be, I don't know), and she was a "higher-up" in the Nazarene denomination.

I actually received a e-mail from someone which opined, "We have Sex Offenders living in our trailer court...they can be here if they are close to a bus stop and we have small children living here as well. If you don't feel comfortable in A church and afraid there is a sex offender going then stay away. God judges people who tear up his churh.... Let God handle it."

These attitudes are difficult to explain, but everyone needs to be aware of them and how they make the church an ideal place for potential offenders to target. "

" This is an information-packed letter. I have appreciated the comments that have been shared. It is disappointing that no churches or church leaders have have shared their congregations policies on protecting children or reporting suspected abuse. As with many organizations, policies in churches get developed when there is a need for them, because of a bad experience. If you look at a church's by-laws and see something unusual, it is probably because they experienced a controversy over that issue, somewhere along the line. "

" While I know that God forgives and we should not judge, it still is disturbing to me to see a face on the Sex Offender's website that is also a member in your congregation. "

" "worried" has brought up a good point. I guess that sex offenders are allowed to attend church, but who's supervising them? Especially in a large church, and when Church and/or Sunday School aren't in session, who's keeping track of the offender's location? Anyone keeping tabs on the restrooms, where most sexual abuse occurs? How about vacant rooms that are unlocked?

Why not encourage sexual offenders to attend a men's Bible Study rather than church, where all kinds of "temptation" exists (going back to Techau's letter) in the form of children running around, innocently and often without supervision.

"worried," were you informed by your church leaders that a sex offender was in your church? Some years ago, a sex offender was invited into a church we attended by the church's pastor and other leadership. Parents were not informed; I found out only by accident. Sure enough, I checked the IL registry and he was on the list.

I am afraid that most parents don't realize this happens--if they think about sexual abuse at all. They really, really need to think about it.

It's extremely offensive to me, because of how aggressively churches recruit children and families to attend and join their congregations. That can be a beautiful thing, if everyone is careful and a clear message is sent that sex offenders will not be tolerated. Or, if at least parents are informed if a sex offender decides to attend their church!

I hope that the letters I wrote get people thinking. I realize many churches are small and limited on money, but most likely they could implement some of the policies & procedures suggested by Love & Norris in their article. These things keep churches safe as well as the children who attend them, so making changes would be in everyone's best interest. "

" Vicky the church is an ideal place for "con artists" of every stripe. AND sex offendors are also master con artists. Many church members have lost their life savings, it puts a new twist to the concept of "holy roller"! Those that are taught not to think for themselves, not to evaluate pros and cons, but to just believe and to never question are prime targets for fraud and abuse of all kinds. "

" shumphreys wrote on Nov 20, 2009 3:48 PM:
" Vicky the church is an ideal place for "con artists" of every stripe. AND sex offendors are also master con artists. Many church members have lost their life savings, it puts a new twist to the concept of "holy roller"! Those that are taught not to think for themselves, not to evaluate pros and cons, but to just believe and to never question are prime targets for fraud and abuse of all kinds. "


Susan are you ready for this? You could not be more correct. One must evaluate all things. In fact, the Scriptures actually, though many churches ignore it, says to test the spirits, or in other words be careful in what you do, especially when money is involved. Their are more passages about money, and doing right with it in the Bible then any other subject. It despises me to see some of these "minister" on TV and in the local churches that are always asking for more. That if you give it to them now, you will get more in heaven. That is not taught in Scriptures. The name leaves me, but the TV "minister" who told people if he didn't receive so much before a certain time God told him he would take his life. That man will have so answering to do. "

" The problem is also compounded by the perception among the "churched" that all a person needs to become a "good" person is to become born again, all their sins will be taken away and they will be cured/saved. This is why there are so many prison ministries, and why prisoners get early parole if they claim to have found "God" and hence seen the error of their ways. They are also not very successful (if success is measured in getting people to change their lives by recidivism rates) and why 12 step programs aren't more successful (if measured by number of alcoholics or drug addicts actually cured). Con artists will do anything if it suits their purpose and many criminals and addicts are master con artists. "

" This is why there are so many prison ministries, and why prisoners get early parole if they claim to have found "God" and hence seen the error of their ways. They are also not very successful.
---
That's because they merely trading one irrational addiction for another one, religion. "

" What ever happened to common sense and parental instincts?
Perhaps if the courts and penal institutions would stop concealing and protecting pediphiles, there would be less of them to deal with. "

" No, I was not informed of the fact that the sexual offender was attending our church. When I brought it up, I was told that his offense was so long ago, and that he has served his time, he has received counseling, he has received forgiveness from God....we will allow him to be here and if there are any problems, we will deal with them. That is what really did not sit well with me. We are going to wait until there is a problem. We are going to WAIT until he DOES something. When we do that, the damage to a child has already been done. "

" worried, I am afraid the situation you describe is not uncommon, due to many Christians confusing forgiveness and accountability (as described above).

Offenders can be forgiven, but that does not make them worthy of trust. If your church's leadership told you that they'll deal with any problems that might arise--wow! That comes across to me as saying that protecting children doesn't even factor into the equation. (I hope they realize how they are opening themselves up to a lawsuit. They are vouching for this person's behavior.)

Although it's common, I don't know if I could tolerate that mindset and continue to attend a church like that. It's an attitude that minimizes the damage done to an innocent child somewhere at some time--and likewise minimizes the potential of the offender to do it again. Many of them do, in fact, offend again.

When the sex offender attended the church we used to go to, I told other parents with children that his name was on the IL registry so they would know to keep an eye on things--as we should all do anyway. Most offenders (90%, I think) are not on any list! "

" Worried your comment brings up an important issue that everyone skirts around. How does a society find the balance between paying for ones crimes (serving the sentence) and reentering society and NOT being treated as a pariah (forever damned). Released prisoners have trouble finding employment which means they can't pay their bills and return to crime. We know that people if treated with scorn will give up and live up to the way they are treated. We know that sex offendors will offend again (most of them at least), that addicts will return to their addictions,that bullies will continue to bully,.... We haven't done a good job in breaking the cycle of violence and crime, in rehabilitating criminals, heck in even training our children to become responsible citizens. "

" Good points, Susan.

worried, I'm pasting in the link to a short (but helpful) article discussing forgiveness and accountability. I tried to post it, but it didn't work:

http://takecourage.org/articles/FAQ/FAQ3.htm "

" Vicky I read the article and I like his point about "letting go" versus "forgiveness". Many do think that if they forgive someone that is letting a person "off the hook", not holding the person accountable. One issue I have seen several times is that the person who has the greatest hate, anger, desire for revenge really needs to forgive their self. They are the ones who can't face their own feelings of guilt (sometimes justified, quite often not) and take it all out on the ONE that has caused the harm. If they could "let go" of their own guilt they could also "let go" of the need to punish the offender. "

" worried, are other parents in your church aware that a registered sex offender is attending there? (By the way, I hope he isn't involved with children or youth ministries!) This is something they would probably appreciate knowing. It's public information, as are Judici records.

A group of concerned parents could apply a little pressure, possibly, and find out exactly what's being done to ensure the safety of the children there. Concrete things, not a lot of rationalizing and minimizing.

A useful thing to point out here is that sharing such information with concerned parents is not gossip (a common accusation of church leaders who feel their judgment is being questioned or who don't want church members to be aware of these situations). It isn't gossip any more than sharing that someone has a criminal record regarding forgery, embezzlement, etc. if they want to be Church treasurer.

You'd think, by the behavior of some church leaders, that the sex offender's right to privacy is more important than the welfare of the children in attendance. "

" I am not sure if all of the members with children are aware. However, the ones that I know I am approaching and asking them to go to the sex offender website and see the information for themselves. I am not being slanderous, just guiding them in that direction so they can become informed. Perhaps the more that learn, then they will share as well. He is not in a position that deals with children i.e. a teacher or youth leader. If that should happen, I will go to the church board and have to demand that action be taken. As I stated before, I am trying really hard not to judge, but I believe that these type of abusers are not "rehabilitated". They will abuse again. It's just a matter of time. Please, correct me if I am wrong. "

" Hopefully, worried, a lot of people read my letter and decided to check the IL Sex Offender Registry. Judici.com is also a good place to check.

Some people are more likely to re-offend than others. Gender, age and number of victims, motivation to complete treatment...all of these are factors. Those who target pre-pubescent children and men who prey upon young boys are, according to what I've read, the most likely to re-offend.

I think I understand what you mean about judging. As I remember the offenders I've known, I would never judge their moral standing before God. Still, they knew what they did was wrong and must have known some type of penalty would be involved. There are consequences for bad behavior, but all that mattered to them was what they wanted at the time.

If an accountant embezzles money, I think she should be forgiven, but one consequence of her crime is that she may never get another job in accounting or finance. She also might have to go to prison, and her reputation in the community might be tarnished. Eventually she may re-establish herself, but if people do not trust her, it is her fault--not theirs.

The crimes sex offenders commit are particularly heinous because children are the victims, and because so many of them are cunning, manipulative, and cannot control themselves. I believe the first priority should be protecting any children on church grounds. "

" Worried statistically many sex offenders will commit more crimes. BUT who is to say about the person in your church? He could be the one out of 100 or whatever the statistical number is that doesn't reaffend. I doubt that you know or would be able to find out all the details of his crime, both sides of the story. I don't know how much is included on the sex offender web site. BUT there are some that will never abuse again if given the right support. That "right support" is the key it doesn't mean turning them lose without monitoring or counseling or job support or help in finding housing or..... whatever help they need. "

" For Susan: It is true that recovery rates for addicted human beings are not very good, and we need to have a much better understanding of addiction. It should be noted, however, that so far as we know now, there is no CURE for addiction, which is why support groups like the Twelve Step programs are of such value. Another value of these programs, is that they help people learn how to live more effective lives. "

" Likestoknow 12 step programs help some but not all. The argument against them, and this may be why they don't work for all, is that they trade one addiction for another rather than teach self-suffiency, self-control, self-direction, self-motivation.... The argument that people can never be free of addiction is also not TRUE for ALL. Some people successfully free themselves from their addictions when they take self-control of their lives. "

" Also Likestoknow we are still learning about genetic issues with addictions. AND that is another problem with 12 step programs is the failure to recognize that for SOME, not for ALL, there is a genetic disposition to addiction. This doesn't mean there is one "addiction" gene, that if removed or changed would solve the problem. Addiction is a combination of physical, genetic, behavioral, emotional, social, ....problems. "

" Last year, in Oklahoma, five girls filed a civil child sex abuse and cover up lawsuit against institutions associated with the Church of the Nazarene. This past Tuesday, SNAP (Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests) blasted church officials re. this case.

In response to the girls' lawsuit--(the pastor involved has been put away for 35 years)--Nazarene church denominational officials have asserted that any injuries or damages suffered by the plaintiffs were caused by or contributed to by the girls' conduct.

Basically, Church of the Nazarene spiritual leaders are attacking and re-victimizing these young girls. SNAP has called on the institutional defendants to withdraw this motion, apologize, and never again use such "un-Christlike legal maneuvers." Further, one member urges "every man, woman, and child who was sexually violated by a Nazarene figure will come forward, get help, call police, expose predators, protect children, and start healing."

For more info, check out the SNAP website.

This is a good place to remind people that if they've been sexually abused by any church employee, priest, pastor, or member, please do NOT go to your church leaders to report it. It is a crime; go to your nearest law enforcement agency to report any abuse you have endured. "

" Vicky last night on the news the Catholic Church in Ireland has come under fire for sex abuse by priests. One priest abused 100 or more children. I wonder why the abuse we hear about is ONLY in the Catholic church or the Nazareen Church. What about the Methodists or Presbyterians? "

" Some denominations, and I think Presbyterians and Methodists are among them, are more proactive when it comes to prevention and more competent when dealing with any abuse that does occur.

My cousin attends a Methodist church. Some years ago, when the pastor was accused of abusing two or three boys, he was removed immediately. Parents were notified of what happened, and the leadership addressed their concerns as much as possible. They held meetings, went to families' homes, etc. to discuss what was happening. Nothing was covered up.

The Nazarene case was especially bad because, according to what I've read, the youth pastor was known to have had issues with child pornography--and was placed in a church anyway.

The Catholics have been trying to clean house, but it seems like they've been making the news regularly for years now.

Then again, the Associated Baptist Press reports, "While Presbyterians, Methodists and other Protestant denominations have spelled-out obligations for ministerial ethics, Baptist clergy lack a code of ethics to which they can be held accountable.

In other denominations, [pastors] know that if charges are brought, truth will win out....Doctors and psychologists know if they are caught, they will lose their credentials and there will probably be a malpractice suit. Most Baptists and nondenominational ministers know that If I get caught, I can move to California and start a new church.'

I think it can happen in any denomination--also in any relgious group. What matters is what's in place to prevent it, and the attitude of church/denominational leaders towards it. Minimal prevention and a hush-hush attitude allows for a greater chance of sexual abuse, I would say, whatever the religious group might be. "

" This is why parents need get up and go with their children to church and to bathrooms instead of lazily in bed sleeping while the kids go. You cannot tell by looking at a person what lurks behind the MASK. We have someone know and how innocent he is and gets so religious in prison, gets a ministerial license, when out he commits another pediphile crime, soon forgets that OLD TIME RELIGION. He makes us sick. He thought he would be out and invited to our family holidays, no way we don't want him about the childen AT ALL, nor me. I would wanna bash his head with the rolling pin if saw something WRONG. "

" Mama, you are a HOOT. I wouldn't want him around the kids, either! A relative of mine was molested by another member of the family and is still trying to deal with it emotionally--after 40 years. This incident was not church-related at all, just one of those family things that happens all the time....Knowing what victims go through makes it all the more outrageous when I read statements from church leaders yacking about false accusations, the victim and his/her family being partially responsible, and the like. I wonder what kind of God they have created in their minds.... "

" The Question wrote on Nov 21, 2009 11:46 AM:
" This is why there are so many prison ministries, and why prisoners get early parole if they claim to have found "God" and hence seen the error of their ways. They are also not very successful.
---
That's because they merely trading one irrational addiction for another one, religion. "


In your opinion. "

" I guess I missed the Question's comments about prison ministries. These are, overall, quite successful in not only reducing recidivism but also improving participating prisoners' behavior. Moreover, they are a lot cheaper ($150 to $200 per inmate per year) than other in-prison programs ($14,000 per inmate per year).

See http://www.oregon.gov/DOC/TRANS/religious_services/rs_article2.shtml "