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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Lee Enterprises

Wednesday, November 4, 2009 10:15 PM CST
LETTER: Obama aggressive in dealing with dissenters

JACK PIERCE, Charleston

When five TV news networks, with the exception of Fox News, were granted interviews with an Obama Administration official by the White House, the five, to their credit, objected.

The White House relented and included Fox News in the interviews. To the five invited network’s credit, they determined not to knuckle under to pressure from the President.

Yet, do you suppose the five networks saw the handwriting on the wall? That same shot fired across their own bough? In essence, and in not so subtle a manner, this administration was saying that unfavorable coverage of the President was not welcome, and there would be repercussions. Or simply, “You disagree with us at your peril, for we expect no difficult questions to be asked of us. Just get on board.”

One difference between the Nixon enemy list and Obama’s, it took years for the Nixon list to come to fruition, a feat that Obama has accomplished in just a few months. Nor does the President discriminate, for anyone disagreeing with his policies will be cast as an enemy. Be it those pesky Republicans, Democrats and independents who he demonized at the Tea Parties last August, or Wall Street, the Chamber of Commerce, big business, medical doctors, the health insurance companies, and of course Fox News, he has proven that he will aggressively deal with all these enemies to graphically show them the error of their ways.

That all this animosity has erupted in such a short time, and that this President is willing to quell dissent by whatever means necessary, does not bode well for his Presidency, nor for our first amendment, nor for our country at large. Just ask those who once served in the Nixon White House.

The health care issue is not really about health care at all, but is wholly a political affair, and single payer public insurance is contingent on the amount of money available. As has often been said, “figures don’t lie, but liars do figure.” (And spin)

JACK PIERCE

Charleston

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Jim1969 wrote on Nov 5, 2009 12:06 AM:

" And this comes as a surprise? If people paid close attention to Obama's campaign for President it was easily seen how he dealt with opposing views or with those who questioned his views on any given subject. He either ignored the topic all together or he attempted to make the dissenter out to be a liar, unpatriotic or un-American.

Since taking office he has been on a power trip and has all but come out and directly said it is his way or the highway. "

The Question wrote on Nov 5, 2009 5:25 AM:

" The White House was merely pointed out the obvious: that Fox "News" is not a news operation at all. It's a 24-hour Republican propaganda machine. You right wingers know it. That's why you worship Fox News, and lie about what it really is.
And in return, Fox News lies for you, constantly.
Fox News identified disgraced Republican Gov. Mark Sanford as a Democrat on the day he admitted his philandering.
Fox News changed Congressman Mark Foley's party affiliation from Republican to Democratic after it was inescapably confirmed that Foley was sexually soliciting teenage male pages in Congress.
In the fall of 2008, Fox News repeatedly referred to presidential candidate Barack Obama as "Barack Osama."
Fox News presented a graphic showing that the Lincoln-Douglas Debates were between Abraham Lincoln and the black abolitionist Frederick Douglass.
Fox News star Bill O'Reilly falsely claimed that WWII U.S. troops had committed atrocities at Malmedy as an attempt to justify contemporary atrocities by U.S. troops, then had Malmedy changed to "Normandy" in the transcript in a clumsy attempt to cover up his tracks.
All Fox News lies. And those are just the tip of the fascist propaganda iceberg. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 5, 2009 7:08 AM:

" You have to wonder why folks like this letter writer ignore the feuds that previous presidents had with other networks. Obama is not the first president to have done this. Comparing this president to Tricky Dick Nixon is beyond laughable. "

shumphreys wrote on Nov 5, 2009 8:05 AM:

" First Mr. Pierce the reason for rejecting Fox was not because Obama fears dissension it was because he thinks that news should be fair and balanced. The trgedy of all of this is that the "real" news networks have shot themselves in the foot. Far too many people have completely lost touch and can NOT tell the difference between political commentary (what Fox does) and news coverage. Network "news" programs keep losing audience numbers, legitimate reporters are out of work, advertising dollars are going to the entertainment fake news/commentary programs and the network news by legitimizing fake news (not just with this stand at the White House but with their morning shows and talk shows)has brought about their own demise. "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Nov 5, 2009 8:05 AM:

" Do you actually mean that is all the mistakes Fox New has made? That is outstanding! If someone were to list the mistakes and liberal lies and propaganda of the other 5 networks all the books in the library would't hold them. "

Cognitus wrote on Nov 5, 2009 8:25 AM:

" "That same shot fired across their own bough?"

Jack I stopped reading your letter when
I came to this sentnence.
I'll be damned if I'm going to have
anybody shooting at the boughs in MY
backyard.

Anybody who can't tell a tree from a ship obviously can't find his ****** with both hands and shouldn't be giving others advice about how to find theirs. "

JWT wrote on Nov 5, 2009 8:44 AM:

" I don't know if the health care bill is a good thing or not.
I do know that the insurance companys are against it.
Therefoe I'm for it. "

The Question wrote on Nov 5, 2009 8:45 AM:

" On April 27, 2004, Bill O'Reilly claimed that his call for a boycott of France had cost that nation "billions of dollars," citing reports in "the Paris Business Review" as evidence. No such publication exists or has ever existed. In fact, American imports from France actually increased after O'Reilly called for his boycott, which was meant to punish France for failing to endorse Bush's invasion and occupation of Iraq under false pretenses.
Rewriting history on Aug. 6, 2008, Fox News host Brian Kilmeade denied that Bush ever tried to tie Al Qaeda to Iraq to justify his invasion, flatly stating that Bush "never even said there was a link between Al Qaeda and Iraq." Yet on June 17, 2004, Bush told the press, "The reason I keep insisting that there was a relationship between Iraq and Saddam and al Qaeda, because there was a relationship between Iraq and al Qaeda."
But these are merely some of the specific lies through which Fox News has revealed its true mission. It's also impossible to miss the fact that Fox News' ENTIRE operation and design is dishonest, geared completely toward praising and muting any criticism of Republicans and right wingers and damning (whether with faint praise, legitimate criticism or just a barrage of naked lies) all Democrats and liberals. "

just wondering wrote on Nov 5, 2009 10:42 AM:

" Of course the libs don't think Fox news is fair. They would rather listen to something like CBS and Dan Rather. We see how accurate and fair they were. "

The Question wrote on Nov 5, 2009 12:40 PM:

" On Aug, 6, 2009, Fox News star Glenn Beck "joked" that he'd like to murder Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi by poisoning her tea, then had the transcript scrubbed to hide his statement.
Fox News pundit Liz Trotta, while discussing the idea of assassinating Osama Bin Laden and Barack Obama, said, "Well ... both, if we could!," then laughed happily.
Reporting on a Washington 9-12 rally he promoted in 2009, Glenn Beck rejected the crowd estimate of 70,000 offered by city authorities. Instead, he said, an amazing 1.7 MILLION people attended, citing a supposed study by the University of I Dont Remember.
"We had a university, the university, I think it's the University of ,,, I don't remember which university it is ,,, um, look at the pictures," Beck said. "

exbricklayer wrote on Nov 5, 2009 1:33 PM:

" Maybe he should just have Joe Biden shoot them in the face? "

shumphreys wrote on Nov 5, 2009 2:18 PM:

" Oh dear JustWondering you really do have a problem. Dan Rather has been gone for quite a while now. I think you have pulled a "Rip Van Winkle" on us and been sleeping for quite a while. That explains a great deal about many of your other comments. "

Airy Dite wrote on Nov 5, 2009 2:57 PM:

" Cognitus, I love your post. Please take a bough for being so observant. LOL "

cedric66 wrote on Nov 5, 2009 3:04 PM:

" How about adding Olberman, Maddow and some idiot called Ed. Nice collection of misfits if I say so myself!!!! One more thing "If you don't like FoxNews,plain and simple, DON'T WATCH IT!!!! "

medic57 wrote on Nov 5, 2009 3:26 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Nov 5, 2009 7:08 AM:

" You have to wonder why folks like this letter writer ignore the feuds that previous presidents had with other networks. Obama is not the first president to have done this. Comparing this president to Tricky Dick Nixon is beyond laughable. "

Damn Harry, I hate aggreeing with you.

Remember the 2 Iowa teachers, (democrats) who went to a Bush rally with Gore buttons on, the were arrested and strip searched.

Question

While I do watch Fox news, I make up my own mind as to what I believe. And Glenn Beck is an arrogant Bozo who gives conservatives (not republicans)(there is a difference) a bad name. "

BW wrote on Nov 5, 2009 3:34 PM:

" TQ, You apparently have a tremendous amount of time on your hands. Maybe I can call on you sometime to do some research for me, since it's your life. Thanks. "

The Question wrote on Nov 5, 2009 3:45 PM:

" There's a vast difference being having a point of view and lying. Fox News lies, constantly, and that makes it a propaganda operation, not a news organization. And I have the facts to back that up.
Unless you have facts, you're just blowing more of your smelly gas, right wingers. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Nov 5, 2009 5:52 PM:

" BLA BLA BLA
1st if you have to complain that someone spelled a word the wrong way, even when you knew exactly what had been said, you are shallow, and blabbing just to hear (read) your self.
I get tired of hearing that this side lies that side lies, "BOTH SIDES LIE", just face it.
We would all be in better shape if we forgot Demarats and Repukins, and just thought "Americans". "

even steven wrote on Nov 5, 2009 6:21 PM:

" Obama is a thin-skinned narcissist who can't stand scrutiny. His pathetic tantrum about FOX News (just like most pathetic, brainwashed leftists) paints him as the weakling he truly is. What a tinkerbell! I guess he probably thinks MSNBC is actually news... what with slobbering Kieth Olberman telling people to "go to hell", Chrissy Matthews having leg tingles and swooning over Obama, and the crooked-faced, mannish Rachel Maddow sprewing the latest insipid babble she read on the Daily Kos, the sheer hypocrisy of Obama and his toadies is a complete joke. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 5, 2009 6:41 PM:

" cedric66 wrote on Nov 5, 2009 3:04 PM:

" How about adding Olberman, Maddow and some idiot called Ed. Nice collection of misfits if I say so myself!!!! One more thing "If you don't like FoxNews,plain and simple, DON'T WATCH IT!!!! "

Temper Temper, seedy.

Of course those you listed are left wingers. The difference is they aren't trying to hide behind the phony fair and balanced tag line like those at the Fox Opinion network. And at least they don't have to make up stuff like your heroes on Fox do. And hey, I like to watch Fox, especially Beck, he's funnier than Comedy Central anytime.

Since you apparently watch them, how about telling us when they lie about something. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 5, 2009 7:11 PM:

" Hey TQ, did you notice that when Neonut left he seemed to take all of his other "personalities" with him. Pretty telling, I would say. lol! "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Nov 5, 2009 7:17 PM:

" America truly experienced tragedy today. At Ft. Hood one of America's finest was driven to shed the blood of his fellow comrade soldiers. And you have to place blame directly on Obama for this tragedy. Last year campaigning for the Whitehouse Obama told America that our soldiers were indiscriminately bombing and killing women, children, and civilians in Afghanistan and Iraq. Along with Reid and Pelosi, Obama told America we'd lost the war in both countries. Now, when Obama has had the opportunity to right these previous wrongs, by his indecision and obvious lack of confidence in the recommendations of our commanders in the field, he's telling our military leaders that they're wrong about the number of troops needed to win the war. How much more degradation can our soldiers withstand from Obama before the tradegy that occurred today starts to occur on a regular basis? "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Nov 5, 2009 7:22 PM:

" Anybody who can't tell a tree from a ship obviously can't find his ****** with both hands and shouldn't be giving others advice about how to find theirs. "
-----------------------------

Where's my kazoo?

The pompous arse kazoo maestro is back!!! Yippee!!! "

just wondering wrote on Nov 5, 2009 7:26 PM:

" No Susan, I have no problems. Yes Rather is gone but CBS news is still around fawning over all the liberal blather. And it was nice to see you exhibit that tolerance for other people's beliefs that you keep saying you have. I am sure you will be inducted into the hypocrite hall of fame soon, unless you are already there. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Nov 5, 2009 7:27 PM:

" Fox News is biased! Fox News is biased! Fox News is biased! Fox News is biased!

...as the Fox News ratings continually go through the roof...

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha! "

The Question wrote on Nov 5, 2009 7:39 PM:

" I've cited a dozen examples of deliberate, major lies on Fox News. No one has refuted them. No one has cited lies told by Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow. All you right wingers do is shriek "both sides lie" and run for cover.
No. You lie. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 5, 2009 8:03 PM:

" I beginning to think that the Republicans must all be Cub fans. About the only thing in their arsenal is that old Cub fan line "wait till next year". "

Cognitus wrote on Nov 5, 2009 8:22 PM:

" Rohn:"1st if you have to complain that someone spelled a word the wrong way,"

Sorry, Rohn, that you still don't understand. It was not a misspelling;
Jack used the wrong word. "

Cognitus wrote on Nov 5, 2009 8:31 PM:

" Neo Con:"before the tragedy that occurred today starts to occur on a regular basis?"

The tragedy started when Bush, desperate to out-do his father, left Afghanistan to attack Saddam, lying about WMD to justify his actions.
Remember when Bush, as he fled from
Afghanistan, said of Bin Laden, "I'm
not concerned abut him any more". "

Bps wrote on Nov 5, 2009 8:50 PM:

" The Question wrote on Nov 5, 2009 7:39 PM:
" I've cited a dozen examples of deliberate, major lies on Fox News. No one has refuted them. No one has cited lies told by Keith Olbermann or Rachel Maddow. All you right wingers do is shriek "both sides lie" and run for cover.
No. You lie. "
----------------
Naw, it is only because you have become boring and frankly rather trite with your continuing diatribe.

Besides, what could possibly be a better answer than the truth?

Pst- they do both lie. . . . . "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Nov 5, 2009 9:45 PM:

" The tragedy started when Bush, desperate to out-do his father, left Afghanistan to attack Saddam, lying about WMD to justify his actions.
Remember when Bush, as he fled from
Afghanistan, said of Bin Laden, "I'm
not concerned abut him any more". "
-----------------------------

Oh no, no, no...the tragedy started when Hill-billy Clinton failed to take care of Obama bin Laden, and all the other terrorists, back in the 1990's.

You remember:

1993 - The first World Trade Center bombing
1995 - Attempted crashing of plane on White House
1996 - Khobar Towers bombing - Saudi Arabia
1998 - U.S. Embassy bombings Kenya/Tanzania
2000 - USS Cole Bombing - Yemen

...don't you?

And those that REALLY KNOW BETTER, like moi, know that the tragedy all started in 1975, lead by democrat Frank Church, when the Church commission tied the hands of the CIA.

Ambassador Paul Bremer, who chaired a national commission on terrorism told CNN that the Senate panel that investigated the CIA misdeeds in the 1970s, did a lot of damage to our intelligence services. . . . And the more recent problem was that the previous administration put into effect guidelines which restricted the ability of CIA agents to go after. . . terrorist spies.

Bremer was talking about Ol' "Oil Change" Clinton don't ya know...

Oh my, and it's happening again via democrats actions concerning the alleged waterboarding atrocities, giving citizen rights to Gitmo terrorists, and the lambasting and wealening of the Patriot Act by you democrats.

Boy... I wonder what colossal tragady awaits America in the future due to the actions of democrats now over the recent nonsense.

I guess we'll have to wait and see!

And as for Ol' Hill-billy Clinton back in the '90's, I guess he was more concerned with "getting his oil changed" by Monica Lewinsky to address Obama bin Laden, Al-Qaeda, and the Taliban then, eh? Hahaha! "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Nov 5, 2009 9:50 PM:

" Naw, it is only because you have become boring and frankly rather trite with your continuing diatribe.
----------

Hahaha!

Naw...the real reason the drama queen misses the lies spewed out by the liberal news channels is that the drama queen's too busy salivating over Rachel Madcow's 2-bit, barber shop haircut to pay attention to what's been said. "

thefunnyfarm wrote on Nov 5, 2009 10:40 PM:

" It's amazing to me this great country has taken this long to see the truth about this president. He is a joke, he thinks he is the next superstar, he spend much of his time appearing on talk shows-late night to boot. He has very real issues to deal with and he is on Dave Letterman. Pleeease we have a war we can't end, many of our service men and women are getting killed every day and our president is on Letterman yukking it up. Hello, this is not a community management position. It is heartening to see that the country is starting to realize what a mistake was made by electing this *symbol*. Hopefully our great country will be able to get out of this mess before he totally ruins us. You all realize don't you that the steps he has taken are reminscent of what Hitler prior to the holocaust. I'm not saying that Obama will create a holocaust, just stating that he is exhibiting total control. Since when have the American people rolled over and let the government take control of banking, the auto industry, and now proposed the health care industry. Wake up people, where is the good old American spirit? The spirit on which our coutry was founded upon? I honestly hope I won't receive negative consequences for this post because I guess Obama is also trying to take that free speech that we all value so much away. Wake Up America "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 6, 2009 7:40 AM:

" The president's approval rating are still high, and will no doubt go higher after health care reform is enacted and the economy continues to improve. Good news for America and bad news for the disgruntled losers. But they will always have Fox Opinion news to listen to. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 6, 2009 7:54 AM:

" The 3.5% increase in GDP was impressive. It marks the first time in the past four quarters that GDP has swung to the plus column. Even more remarkable was the breadth of the improvement. Consumer spending was up, exports were up, autos were up, federal spending was up, and even residential housing was up. The imports number, due to increased auto imports resulting from the Cash for Clunkers program, was the sole large detractor to quarterly GDP growth. Business investment (a huge negative in past quarters), and state and local government spending both had very modest negative impacts on the quarter. Increases in consumer spending, about a third of which was auto related, and a slower drawdown in inventories (as manufacturers stepped up production) were by far the largest contributors to the quarterly results.
Bob Johnson, economist for Morningstar-

More good signs for a recovering economy.

Let the nay saying local disgruntled losers keep harping about how things are getting worse. The improving numbers don't say that. "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Nov 6, 2009 8:26 AM:

" Last evening I switched over to MSNBC to get their take on the Fort Hood massacre. Immediately I started hearing this, This is not a terrorist act! This is in no way terrorist activity! We know for a fact this is not terrorism!. Over and over they were frantic that this might be seen as terrorism. Really this was a terrorist act. This man caused terror and death and he is a Muslim. It has been reported he shouted, Allah Akbar, This was Islamic terrorism. This is what Muslims do if they are good Muslims and he was just being a good Muslim. He was following what Mohammed told him to do.

Political correctness? Nice job MSNBC! Chris Matthews probably has more shivers running up his leg when he thinks of how Muslim his president is. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 6, 2009 9:13 AM:

" Damn Harry, I hate aggreeing with you.

Come on now, medic. Even a stopped clock it right twice a day. lol!

Maybe there's hope for you after all. "

father bob wrote on Nov 6, 2009 10:19 AM:

" Jon Vanatta wrote on Nov 6, 2009 8:26 AM:
"This is what Muslims do if they are good Muslims and he was just being a good Muslim."""""

no that's what radical rightwing extremists do.....either muslim or christian.

you condone bombing of abortion clinics and the murder of doctors performing legal procedures, all IN THE NAME OF CHISTIANITY. just as wrong and just as evil. "

shumphreys wrote on Nov 6, 2009 10:37 AM:

" Mr. Vanatta and was it Christian terrorism when that abortion doctor was shot this past year, or when the Unitarian church was shot up a year or so ago, or when Oklahoma City was bombed? OR was it just the work of one seriously disturbed man, in each case?
We really don't want to tar and feather the whole religion for the actions of one now do we. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Nov 6, 2009 10:42 AM:

" Political correctness? Nice job MSNBC! Chris Matthews probably has more shivers running up his leg when he thinks of how Muslim his president is. "
----------------

Well, well, well...what do we have here?

From http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_fort_hood_shooting_suspect

WASHINGTON His name appears on radical Internet postings. At least six months ago, Hasan came to the attention of law enforcement officials because of Internet postings about suicide bombings and other threats, including posts that equated suicide bombers to soldiers who throw themselves on a grenade to save the lives of their comrades.

Hasan attended prayers regularly when he lived outside Washington, often in his Army uniform, said Faizul Khan, a former imam at a mosque Hasan attended in Silver Spring, Md.

He said Hasan was a lifelong Muslim. "

even steven wrote on Nov 6, 2009 10:42 AM:

" 10.2% unemployment... way to go Obama! I wonder how the lap dog media will spin this one. Obama and his minions seem bent on destroying the economy purpose, because they can't possibly be so stupid... or perhaps they are. Not only has he never worked a real private sector job to gain any sort of understanding of simple economics, he's surrounded himself by similarly clueless and incompetent sycophants. "

theproletariat87 wrote on Nov 6, 2009 11:21 AM:

" To Jack and all others on the Right and radical Right. Its not just Obama, as been mentioned, Nixon who actually arrested "communist sympathizers", Reagan, Roosevelt (both), Abraham Lincoln, etc..etc.. Its all government control, with my views and my pro overthrow agenda I'm on a watch list for sure. You keep prattling on and on about how Obama is a fascist, oh wait he's a socialist, I don't think you people even know the difference between the two. Fascists and Socialists hate each other. Plus, government control??? How bout increased censorship, secrecy, telling certain groups they don't have rights, and militarism (Which Obama did increase our military budget even more) under the bush administration? Conservatives want to control rights not the economy, liberals want to control the economy not personal rights. Its the same with either party. "

Bps wrote on Nov 6, 2009 11:29 AM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Nov 6, 2009 7:54 AM:
" The 3.5% increase in GDP was impressive. . . . . . .

-------------
HP you need to change your name to BS!

Oversimplifying to make a point or do you really believe what you spout?

Heavens, I hope and pray that the Bush/Obama depression does end and end soon. There are way too many good people losing their jobs and their homes. But trying to mislead people with spin just isnt going to do anything but make things worse.

So how about your 3.5% raise in GDP?

It would be really great news except for the fact that as the Bureau of Economic Analysis (BEA) said QUOTE- The third-quarter increase largely reflected motor vehicle purchases under the Consumer Assistance to Recycle and Save Act of 2009 (popularly called, Cash for Clunkers Program), a program no longer in existence. END QUOTE

All they did was move the sales from the fourth quarter to the third quarter while spending billions of money we dont have!

Of course you left out the fact that the Government is borrowing/printing 1.2 trillion (Ie: deficit spending), which is 9% of our ANNUAL GDP, then the real growth, after deducting the borrowed growth is negative!

And this doesnt even include the rest of the trillions they are trying to spend on their social re-engineering (cap-n-trade, health takeover, etc.) all against the good sense voiced by the majority of citizens who keep saying NO.

But as always the O-Kool-Aid your always drinking has skewed your vision.

Sorry HP, those green shoots are just twisted partial statistics and wishful thinking. It is apparent that it is going to take a clean sweep of the fools in power from both parties to fix this mess. "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Nov 6, 2009 11:34 AM:

" Hey Harry P, "stopped clock stop it right" what kind of English is that? You should have went ahead and finished 5th grade perhaps. "

Bps wrote on Nov 6, 2009 11:42 AM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Nov 6, 2009 7:54 AM:
Let the nay saying local disgruntled losers keep harping about how things are getting worse. The improving numbers don't say that. "
. .

-------------

Getting better?

Lets look at a few key statistics from October 2009

* The unemployment rate spiked to its highest level since 1983 10.2% (U3)

* Net loss of 190,000 jobs in October

* TOTAL number of unemployed persons increased by 558,000 TO 15.7 million.

*U6 rate for October 17.5%

* Shadow Stats closer to 24-25% rivaling the peak of the Great Depression

* 7,771 businesses filed for bankruptcy protection, compared to 7,271 that sought shelter from creditors in September (7% jump)

* For the first nine months of the year, individual bankruptcy filings totaled 1.07 million, according to U.S. Bankruptcy Court statistics (on track to hit 1.4 million in 2009)

* Foreclosures: 'Worst three months of all time' number of foreclosure filings hit a record high in the third quarter - 937,840 homes received a foreclosure letter (CNNMoney.Com)

* According to a recent survey released by Hay Group, 72% of retailers predict sales this year will be equal to or less than sales last year and 57% are planning on reducing staff levels this holiday season.

Whew, and that is just a few of the highlights of those green shoots a sprouting.

Yep, those socialist reengineering programs of wasted printed dollars borrowed or pulled from thin air have really made a difference. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 6, 2009 11:55 AM:

" Chris Matthews probably has more shivers running up his leg when he thinks of how Muslim his president is. "

Pushing another debunked theory, Jon? Tell us where you got that one. Sorry, now I remember, it was Orly Taitz, right? "

Jim1969 wrote on Nov 6, 2009 11:59 AM:

" What would appear very pathetic about Obama's feud with Fox News is that it is not really aimed at the news portion of the stations broadcast. It is aimed at people like O'Rielly, Beck, etc.

These people are not reporters. They are Commentators. The do not report they news they commentate on current events. They offer only their opinions. They are the TV version of the Op/Ed columns found in the newspaper. "

Bps wrote on Nov 6, 2009 12:46 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Nov 6, 2009 7:40 AM:
" The president's approval rating are still high, and will no doubt go higher after health care reform is enacted and the economy continues to improve. Good news for America and bad news for the disgruntled losers. But they will always have Fox Opinion news to listen to. "
---------
High is a relative thing isnt it.

HP is technically correct that the Presidents approval rating is hovering around 50% in all major polls, but it looks like all those nagging little problems with his policies and his failures are adding up.

According to Rasmussen he has dropped from his high of 62% at the start of his reign to just 48% in October.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey found:

Only 45% of adults say they would be at least somewhat likely to vote for Obama if he was up for reelection right now.

49% say they would be unlikely to vote for the presidents reelection.

To be honest it was a generic ballot and there are no current major Repub-u-clowns that could beat him. But it does continue to show the growing dissatisfaction with his leftist policies.

Once the abomination of the dummy-crats health industry takeover hits and if it is the monstrosity it appears to be, he will be lucky if he hits Bush's approval numbers. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 6, 2009 1:03 PM:

" So we now find out that Palin didn't actually write her own book.

Not that theres anything wrong with that unofficially, wed estimate that 90 percent of the books published by politicians are heavily ghost-written. (A notable exception: Barack Obama, whose Dreams from My Father was considered by many critics to have real literary merit.) In Palins case, help came in the form of Lynn Vincent, a senior writer for the conservative Christian publication World Magazine.
Christian Science Monitor-

As one pundit noted, how could she write a book when she's never read one?

Think she'll take the actual writer on her whirl wind book tour? "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Nov 6, 2009 1:28 PM:

" LOL at the cub fans Harry.
Cog I fully understand like I said "spelled a word the wrong way", not misspelled. We have several words in or language that pronounce the same but spell different ways, examples> "to, too and two" or maybe "sea or see". So it is you that "understands" what I am saying. Does not matter how or what one of them is spelled you "knew" what he was saying, end of story. Unless this is English or spelling class people need to stick the correcting of peoples spelling and or grammar where the sun dont shine.
Because in reality you can even read and know what this means even when no periods or stoppage between sentences are used so why not just read their posts and comment on the post if you disagree with it we all want to know what everyone thinks about things thats going on i have seen many mistakes in words and spelling from most on here so what it still reads "

The Question wrote on Nov 6, 2009 1:46 PM:

" Barack Obama is a president who has spoken at public events where right-wing loons are running around armed, yapping about "refreshing the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants."
The fascist ape Bush, on the other hand, had people arrested on the 4th of July, 2004, merely for wearing an anti-Bush t-shirt.
You right wingers want to pretend Obama has been "aggressive with dissenters" so you can further demonize him. In fact, he's just an easy target for you to paint a bull's eye on.
And if he's murdered by one of your pet lunatics, we'll remind you just what you've done to this country. "

father bob wrote on Nov 6, 2009 3:46 PM:

" hey jack....don't let our "socialism" disrupt your neo-nazism. LMAO!!! "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Nov 6, 2009 6:08 PM:

" "The fascist ape Bush" my,my, you leftys are in a hissy today! Isnt this what you call hate speech? I wonder what is prompting this hissiness (please do check the spelling on hissiness for me Q) maybe you can even splane it. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 6, 2009 6:23 PM:

" Unable to make a tie in with the Fort Hood shooting and the president, Fox Opinion news has done the next best thing. They're attacking his response to the shooting, by saying he wasn't serious enough. I guess they have forgot Bush's reaction when hearing the attacks on 9/11, which was to sit in a corner and read a kiddie book. Before it's over you can bet some right wing nut case on Fox (or this site) will be trying to tie it to the president. Any bets? "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Nov 6, 2009 7:40 PM:

" HEADLINE: Obama's Frightening Insensitivity Following Shooting

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/politics/A-Disconnected-President.html

After news broke out of the shooting at the Fort Hood Army post in Texas, the nation watched in horror as the toll of dead and injured climbed. The White House was notified immediately and by late afternoon, word went out that the president would speak about the incident prior to a previously scheduled appearance. At about 5 p.m., cable stations went to the president. The situation called for not only his trademark eloquence, but also grace and perspective.

But instead of a somber chief executive offering reassuring words and expressions of sympathy and compassion, viewers saw a wildly disconnected and inappropriately light president making introductory remarks. At the event, a Tribal Nations Conference hosted by the Department of Interior's Bureau of Indian affairs, the president thanked various staffers and offered a "shout-out" to "Dr. Joe Medicine Crow -- that Congressional Medal of Honor winner." Three minutes in, the president spoke about the shooting, in measured and appropriate terms. Who is advising him?

Anyone at home aware of the major news story of the previous hours had to have been stunned.

If the president's communications apparatus can't inform -- and protect -- their boss during tense moments when the country needs to see a focused commander-in-chief and a compassionate head of state, it has disastrous consequences for that president's party and supporters. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Nov 6, 2009 10:58 PM:

" The fascist ape Bush" my,my, you leftys are in a hissy today! Isnt this what you call hate speech?
-------------------------------

They could dish it out for 8 years when Bush was in office, but like their thin-skinned fuhrer Obama, they can't take it. Libs...they're fragile people, don't you know; they think everybody loves them and when somebody doesn't love them...well....they're just crushed.... "

cedric66 wrote on Nov 7, 2009 1:17 AM:

" The Question wrote on Nov 6, 2009 1:46 PM:

" Barack Obama is a president who has spoken at public events where right-wing loons are running around armed, yapping about "refreshing the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants."
The fascist ape Bush, on the other hand, had people arrested on the 4th of July, 2004, merely for wearing an anti-Bush t-shirt.
You right wingers want to pretend Obama has been "aggressive with dissenters" so you can further demonize him. In fact, he's just an easy target for you to paint a bull's eye on.
And if he's murdered by one of your pet lunatics, we'll remind you just what you've done to this country. "

My,My!! Settle down there TQ. Sounds like you are heading for a stroke or heart attack. Go sit on the couch and just relax awhile. Maybe you will see your almighty leader and get another tingle up your leg!!!!! "

m wrote on Nov 7, 2009 2:34 AM:

" Proletariat: "Conservatives want to control rights not the economy, liberals want to control the economy not personal rights. Its the same with either party. "

I am wondering why you believe that it is wrong to defend our rights as citizens especially in this time when it is obvious that so many of our inalienable rights are under attack. What is it you think would happen if no one defended our rights? I think it is reasonable to believe that our rights would cease to exist and then where would we be? Cuba? Isn't the word "control" that you mentioned the reason we need to PROTECT our rights? I believe that's it. Conservatives protect our nation from those who wish to control us. (?) I don't see why a free person would think that is wrong. Our Constitution was provided for all of our protection so when people begin to look at it as a measure of control I think we have a problem. It is our duty and privilege to have inalienable rights to defend.
Please do not mistake this comment as an insult, I am curious and concerned by your statement. I am hoping that maybe you intended it to sound different in some way or that I am misinterpreting it. I believe that both parties are seriously damaged by greed and the desire for power but that only solidifies the necessity for invoking the protections that our Constitution provides.
"How bout increased censorship, secrecy, telling certain groups they don't have rights,..." By this statement you seem as though you are a defender of rights. I am not sure what you would define yourself as, if not a conservative, if your idea of a conservative is one who defends (controls?) our rights. By the way, I, too am certain to be on someone's "watch list(s)"...considering the new erroneous definition of domestic terrorist...would be funny if people weren't buying into it. "

m wrote on Nov 7, 2009 4:26 AM:

" White House Communications Director, Anita Dunn, to an overseas audience earlier this year in reference to Obama's campaign strategy, "Very rarely did we communicate through the press anything that we didn't absolutely control."

Maybe she should change her name to Anita Dunce. "

The Question wrote on Nov 7, 2009 5:39 AM:

" Well, Jon, Bush is literally a fascist. And while I grant you that he's not actually an ape, your simian savior certainly has the looks, the brains and the morals of one. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 7, 2009 7:19 AM:

" Three minutes in, the president spoke about the shooting, in measured and appropriate terms. Who is advising him?

Thank God it's not Karl Rove or Dick Cheney. Eight years of those two hucksters was enough. "

BW wrote on Nov 7, 2009 8:28 AM:

" shuphreys 11/6/09 10:37 AM:
I'm pretty sure you will refuse to understand this, but anyone who commits acts such as you cite is NOT a Christian. They may PROFESS to be Christian but they are not. You probably will deny this fact and, since you are not a Christian, it is likely beyond your comprehension. That is your personal decision and you have every right to make it.You definitely have rights, just as do the people you continually rip into. Have a nice day. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Nov 7, 2009 8:32 AM:

" Harry I will pass on that bet thanks anyway. LOL "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 7, 2009 9:04 AM:

" " Hey Harry P, "stopped clock stop it right" what kind of English is that? You should have went ahead and finished 5th grade perhaps. "

What a brilliant comeback, Jon. I'm impressed with your skills. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 7, 2009 9:24 AM:

" In today's employment report, we were looking for October job losses in the 160,000 to 170,000 range. We got 190,000 losses, and an unemployment rate of 10.2%. This looks very disappointing on the surface. But the report also reveals that the Bureau of Labor Statistics made very positive adjustments to the August and September job-loss numbers. The losses in total nonfarm payroll employment for August was revised from 201,000 to 154,000; the change for September was revised from 263,000 losses to 219,000. These are big adjustments. That's about 100,000 more jobs than we that we had, and they're across many different sectors. If you net the past three months together, we're better off today than we thought we were yesterday.
Morningstar-

Let's face it, those from the party of no, now being led by the right wing wacko element, are absolutely terrified of any good news on the economic front.

As things get better, they get more shrill in their denials. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 7, 2009 10:39 AM:

" President Obama, seeking to reassure a nation shaken by the mass shooting on an Army post in Texas, said Saturday that the training designed to keep U.S. forces safe abroad prevented further deaths and ended a rampage at Fort Hood.

Praising what he called the heroism that ended gunfire on the nation's largest army post, the president described the exchange that left 13 dead and 30 others wounded on Thursday a tragedy.
AP-

I guess it's all in how you want to spin it, huh Neo? "

The Question wrote on Nov 7, 2009 2:26 PM:

" Fox News has consistently propagandized for literal fascism in all 14 of its defining elements.

1 -- Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -Flag images fly with cheap, vomit-inducing dizziness on Fox News.   
2 -- Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Fox News has consistently defended the Bush-Cheney use of torture.  
3 -- Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - Missing white women and black, Hispanic and Muslim villains are a Fox News staple.
4 -- Supremacy of the Military - Fox News slobbers all over the military-industrial complex daily.  
5 -- Rampant Sexism - What other news channel interviews Hooters girls about economics? What other news channel employs only Aryan blonde women "reporters?" Heil Murdoch!
)6 -- Controlled Mass Media - Fox News repeated Bush-GOP talking points verbatim and ad nauseum.  
7 -- Obsession with National Security - Fear is Fox News' most important product.  
8 -- Religion and Government are intertwined - Fox News is the very soul of vulgar, know-nothing piety, and annually promotes anger at a nonexistent "war on Christmas."
9 -- Corporate Power is protected - Obvious.
10 -- Labor Power is suppressed - Obvious.
11 -- Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fox News targets one professor or entertainer after another for destruction, and constantly attacks the idea of intellectual independence in Hollywood or the university.
12 -- Obsession with Crime and Punishment - The flip side of Fox News' fear mongering.   
13 -- Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fox News was strangely, completely unconcerned about Enron, the $12 billion in cash that went missing among Bush's cronies in Iraq, the Cheney-chum thieves at Halliburton, the storm-trooper thugs at Blackwater, etc. etc. etc.
  14 -- Fraudulent Elections - Remember that Fox News called Florida for Bush in 2000, deliberately and wrongly creating the impression he had won. Fox News' election night newsroom was run by Bushs FIRST COUSIN JOHN ELLIS. "

The Question wrote on Nov 7, 2009 3:41 PM:

" Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes.
Somehow American leadership, whose only credit is lying to its people and illegally invading a nation, has been allowed to steal the courage, virtue and honor of its soldiers on the ground.
Somehow those afraid to fight an illegal invasion decades ago are allowed to send soldiers to die for an illegal invasion they started.
Somehow faking character, virtue and strength is tolerated.
Somehow profiting from tragedy and horror is tolerated.
Somehow the death of tens, if not hundreds, of thousands of people is tolerated.
Somehow subversion of the Bill of Rights and The Constitution is tolerated.
Somehow suspension of Habeas Corpus is supposed to keep this country safe.
Somehow torture is tolerated.
Somehow lying is tolerated.
Somehow reason is being discarded for faith, dogma, and nonsense.
The foregoing was written by Kevin Tillman. His brother, Pat, would have been 33 years old a couple of days ago, if he hadn't been killed by "friendly fire" in Afghanistan five years ago. Gen. Stanley McChrystal, who led the Joint Special Operations Command, lied to the American people and his family about Tillman's death. "

Bps wrote on Nov 7, 2009 5:43 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Nov 6, 2009 6:23 PM:
I guess they have forgot Bush's reaction when hearing the attacks on 9/11, which was to sit in a corner and read a kiddie book. Before it's over you can bet some right wing nut case on Fox (or this site) will be trying to tie it to the president. Any bets? "
------------------
HP- I ran across this today and thought it was of interest:

Nov 7, 2009 8:03 am US/Central
http://cbs11tv.com/wireapnewstx/George.W.Bush.2.1298076.html

FORT HOOD, Texas (AP) ― Former President George W. Bush and his wife, Laura, visited wounded soldiers and their families near the site of the worst mass shooting on an Army post in the United States.

The Bushes made their private visit to Fort Hood's Darnall Army Medical Center on Friday night. Bush spokesman David Sherzer said in an e-mail that the couple thanked Fort Hood's military leaders and hospital staff for the "amazing care they are providing."

----------

I didn't care for many of bushs policies during his two terms but in this case he is showing real class and that he has a heart.

There is no benefit for him to visit them. It's not like he can run again or that he's going to make money off this. It wasnt a photo op and so far as I can tell was only picked up by the area news.

In this case I have to say he showed real class and appears to care, even though I didn't like his policies.

Since you are a disciple of the current president, I thought maybe you knew when he is planning on making a trip to visit the wounded and their families there? "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Nov 7, 2009 10:32 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Nov 6, 2009 10:37 AM:
We really don't want to tar and feather the whole religion for the actions of one now do we. "

Ms. Humphreys, when he is doing what a good Muslim is supposed to do because that is the tenets of their religion then yes we do want to condemn that religion for what they are. Actions of murdering people are not the tenets of Christianity. If anyone who claims to be a Christian or that you claim is a Christian and they cold-heartedly murder people while shouting Praise God they definitely would not be following the teachings of Jesus Christ. But when a Muslim does it he is following the teachings of Muhammad therefore the whole religion is wrong and condemned. When Obama glorifies Islam and calls the Koran holy he is condoning murderous actions just like this Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan has committed. Any book that tells people to murder other people and they will receive eternal rewards for doing it is not a holy book. "

thefunnyfarm wrote on Nov 7, 2009 10:35 PM:

" They could dish it out for 8 years when Bush was in office, but like their thin-skinned fuhrer Obama, they can't take it. Libs...they're fragile people, don't you know; they think everybody loves them and when somebody doesn't love them...well....they're just crushed.... "

Great Point "

thefunnyfarm wrote on Nov 7, 2009 10:36 PM:

" " Fox News has consistently propagandized for literal fascism in all 14 of its defining elements.

1 -- Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -Flag images fly with cheap, vomit-inducing dizziness on Fox News.   
2 -- Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Fox News has consistently defended the Bush-Cheney use of torture.  
3 -- Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - Missing white women and black, Hispanic and Muslim villains are a Fox News staple.
4 -- Supremacy of the Military - Fox News slobbers all over the military-industrial complex daily.  
5 -- Rampant Sexism - What other news channel interviews Hooters girls about economics? What other news channel employs only Aryan blonde women "reporters?" Heil Murdoch!
)6 -- Controlled Mass Media - Fox News repeated Bush-GOP talking points verbatim and ad nauseum.  
7 -- Obsession with National Security - Fear is Fox News' most important product.  
8 -- Religion and Government are intertwined - Fox News is the very soul of vulgar, know-nothing piety, and annually promotes anger at a nonexistent "war on Christmas."
9 -- Corporate Power is protected - Obvious.
10 -- Labor Power is suppressed - Obvious.
11 -- Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fox News targets one professor or entertainer after another for destruction, and constantly attacks the idea of intellectual independence in Hollywood or the university.
12 -- Obsession with Crime and Punishment - The flip side of Fox News' fear mongering.   
13 -- Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fox News was strangely, completely unconcerned about Enron, the $12 billion in cash that went missing among Bush's cronies in Iraq, the Cheney-chum thieves at Halliburton, the storm-trooper thugs at Blackwater, etc. etc. etc.
  14 -- Fraudulent Elections - Remember that Fox News called Florida for Bush in 2000, deliberately and wrongly creating the impression he had won. Fox News' election night newsroom was run by Bushs FIRST COUSIN JOHN ELLIS. "

My Gosh...get a life "

Mama says wrote on Nov 8, 2009 4:01 AM:

" I know why the democrats always being exposed on sexual issues,,,,,more than republicans. No one wants a piece of elephant. hehe.
The GREAT BLACK HOPE for obama has rode on a wild stallion into power. If he can make us a better nation, he has done good. Some things being done isn't right. In 20 years, we will know the rest of the story like Paul Harvey use to end his broadcasts.
I do not agree with kissing the behinds in enemy camps nor giving them huge money when poor in USA needs the help.
How can they find one mad cow and her calves and not find the 11 million illegal aliens in the United States?
I know a lot of truly wonderful Mexicans in Arcola area, and I know a few who should go back to Mexico, and even the good Mexicans agree. I love a lot of color, race, religions persons and then there are some one cannot LOVE due to way treat others.
1. Presidents should hand over heart
when National Anthem and flag being
presented before events.
2. Learn about pasts of all who
run for government offices.
3. Don't just put people in power due
to friendships when become a
President.
When saw the all Latino music event at the white house, I smiled and thought,
first in all the years. I was surprised some nutcase didn't takeout a few while in one area. I enjoyed the music. There are some who are fedup with all the black this n that, and mexican this n that, but all these people were tired all white this n that. Too bad cannot share and share alike and really put heads together for the good of all the nation and get over the US US US. Our children were raised to love all people. I loved them all when lived in Tennesse and whipped because white and sat with black and indian friends. Didn't know why was spanked.
We played on playground and nobody spanked, but sat in schoolroom and had bad paddle spankings. When asked WHY, got paddled again.
I just hope we aren't going to be paddled as adults by own government. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 8, 2009 6:19 AM:

" I didn't care for many of bushs policies during his two terms but in this case he is showing real class and that he has a heart.

There is no benefit for him to visit them. It's not like he can run again or that he's going to make money off this. It wasnt a photo op and so far as I can tell was only picked up by the area news.

In this case I have to say he showed real class and appears to care, even though I didn't like his policies.

Since you are a disciple of the current president, I thought maybe you knew when he is planning on making a trip to visit the wounded and their families there? "
---------------

A fair question, Bps. I have no idea of what the president is going to do in regards to any hospital visits. I did read that the Obama family plans on attending a memorial service for the victims. I would imagine he will visit the hospital too.

And as far as Bush's visit, I agree that he showed class, although one could make the argument that he is trying to overcome what many think will be a very negative legacy. I don't buy into that, just as I don't buy the idea that everything Obama does is a photo op. I think both Bush and Obama have shown real class in dealing with this terrible tragedy. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 8, 2009 8:51 AM:

" Due to the brilliant leadership of Nancy Pelosi, we're one step closer to health care reform. Get ready for it's reality. The people are winning over Fox Opinion Only news, the tea naggers and all of the wacko right wing radios hate mongers. "

The Question wrote on Nov 8, 2009 9:17 AM:

" I agree with Stanley Karnow, author of the seminal 1983 book, Vietnam: A History," who said this:
What did we learn from Vietnam? We learned that we shouldn't have been there in the first place. Obama and everybody else seem to want to be in Afghanistan, but not I.
It now seems unthinkable that the U.S. could lose (in Afghanistan), but that's what experts ... thought in Vietnam in 1967. It could be that there will be no real conclusion and that it will go on for a long time until the American public grows tired of it. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Nov 8, 2009 12:13 PM:

" Somehow the more soldiers that die, the more legitimate the illegal invasion becomes.
--------------------

Somehow...certain persons can never tire from being a drama queen... "

father bob wrote on Nov 8, 2009 4:59 PM:

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Nov 8, 2009 12:13 PM:

" Somehow...certain persons can never tire from being a drama queen... """""

yep that's one attribute i'll hand you. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 8, 2009 5:40 PM:

" Carrie Prejean demanded more than a million dollars during her settlement negotiations with Miss California USA Pageant officials -- that is, until the lawyer for the Pageant showed Carrie an XXX home video of her handiwork.

The video the lawyer showed Carrie is extremely graphic and has never been released publicly. We know that, because TMZ obtained the video months ago but decided not to post it because it was so racy. Let's just say, Carrie has a promising solo career.

We're told it took about 15 seconds for Carrie to jettison her demand and essentially walk away with nothing. As we first reported, the Pageant is paying around $100,000 to her lawyers and publicist -- a fraction of her bills. She pockets nothing in the settlement.
TMZ-

Looks like little Carrie wasn't the sweet innocent person Fox news tried to portray her as. I wonder if this will effect her contract to be a commentator for Fox? Probably not. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 8, 2009 5:49 PM:

" A must see video, Goggle: SNL mocks Fox news.

This video is absolutely hilarious, and sadly has a ring of truth to it.

Note * right wingers won't get it. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Nov 8, 2009 6:15 PM:

" " Somehow...certain persons can never tire from being a drama queen... """""

yep that's one attribute i'll hand you. "
---------------
well thank you...and racist is one attribute I'll hand to you... "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 9, 2009 7:44 AM:

" well thank you...and racist is one attribute I'll hand to you... "

Evidently Neo subscribes to the Rovian school of thought, fb. I'm not surprised. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 9, 2009 9:27 AM:

" An important issue is being left out of the conversation on bail outs, and that's the billions of dollars that both Bush and Obama "loaned" to the financial industry, has been paid back (with interest). Certainly there has been abuse, as there always is when it comes to the financial industry, but in the end, I think history will say Bush did the right thing by securing the major banks stability, and Obama was wise to continue Bush's policy in this area. Both the MSM and right wing outlets, such as Fox, seem to being ignoring the important issue of paybacks. Fox's motivation is obvious, but why is the MSM so silent on this? Another important statistic being ignored is how many jobs were saved by the automotive bailouts? As bad as the unemployment picture is, how much worse would it have been with out these bailouts? Of course there are those who shouted let them fail, even though millions more would have been out on the street if the president had allowed that. On the TARP issue, the major banks are the lifeblood of all of America's small businesses. Simply put, America's small businesses, which are responsible for most of the jobs in this country, can not survive without the influx of cash from the major lending institutions. So where would we be today if those banks and auto companies had been allowed to fail? I propose that we would be even in a bigger mess. Unlike the doomsday naysayers, I see that things as getting better, and know that better times are ahead. We didn't get in this mess overnight and it will take time for a full recovey. "

Rockin Rotty wrote on Nov 9, 2009 11:22 AM:

" Mama says, your posts are a true pleasure to read. Please keep up the great work. You're a hoot! :-) "

even steven wrote on Nov 9, 2009 11:23 AM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Nov 8, 2009 8:51 AM:

" Due to the brilliant leadership of Nancy Pelosi, we're one step closer to health care reform. Get ready for it's reality. The people are winning over Fox Opinion Only news, the tea naggers and all of the wacko right wing radios hate mongers. "

Nancy Pelosi brilliant? She's the very definition of idiot. "

theproletariat87 wrote on Nov 9, 2009 12:42 PM:

" Well M how bout this definition between the two? Conservatives want more REGULATION of personal rights to protect the "moral fabric of society" like censorship, gay rights, etc.. and less REGULATION of the economy. Liberals want more REGULATION of the economy like workers rights, taxes, etc.. and less REGULATION when it comes to personal rights.
Nice to know I'm not the only one on a watch list lol. "

Danny Boy wrote on Nov 9, 2009 3:08 PM:

" Why don't most of you Refublicans just admit it. You just hate Blacks period.

If it was a white man as a Democratic President, we wouldn't be hearing all the hate, that we are hearing now.

Some of you (not all), just cover your racism with fancy commentary, and catch phrases repeated from Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh. Most of you don't have any independent thoughts of your own.

(I can hear the keyboards clicking already) "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Nov 9, 2009 7:00 PM:

" even steven, Nancy Pelosi an Idiot. You know steven, Pelosi may actually be brilliant at least that was a brilliant maneuver of sneaking in health care with the public option and abortion coverage late on a Sat night. She knew she had to pull off some kind of underhanded deal to get it by. Even at that it only passed by 2 votes in a house where her party has a solid majority. It didnt take the new Dem. Congressman Bill Owens long to break his campaign promises. He said he was against the public option in his campaign and voted for it in his first hour after being sworn in. Can you imagine the back row deals that were made by Nancy and Obama! So we can say that Pelosi is brilliant in debauchery. She is an idiot though for pulling that kind of stunt that people will never forget. "

father bob wrote on Nov 9, 2009 7:28 PM:

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Nov 8, 2009 6:15 PM:

" " Somehow...certain persons can never tire from being a drama queen... """""

yep that's one attribute i'll hand you. "
---------------
well thank you...and racist is one attribute I'll hand to you... """"""

thanks for proving the point "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 9, 2009 7:43 PM:

" Nancy Pelosi brilliant? She's the very definition of idiot. "

I wondered who would take the bait on that teaser. lol! "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 9, 2009 7:52 PM:

" The term denialism, used by Mr. Specter as an all-purpose, pop-sci buzzword, is defined by him as what happens when an entire segment of society, often struggling with the trauma of change, turns away from reality in favor of a more comfortable lie.
NYT book review-

Hey Jon, I saw this in a NYT's book review and immediately thought of you and Sarah Palin. "

m wrote on Nov 9, 2009 8:19 PM:

" Proletariat, maybe I am just in some gap between the two. I never fully subscribe to either mindset. An example would be health care. The thing with this health care issue is that it is unconstitutional. I do think it would be okay for individual states to vote and come up with some reform if that is what the people want but for the federal government to be spending time and money on passing a bill that is not constitutional in the first place worries me. Is there none to stand up and say that we should not waste resources on a bill that is against the law? One of our own senators claims to be justified by the part of the Constitution that covers the health of the people which doesn't exist. Is Burris lying or ignorant? Either is unacceptable. The corruption in Congress and politics in general is unacceptable. I believe that if we are to have the country be what it was intended to be then we have to follow the supreme law of the land...and that is apparently going to take some defending. If that puts me on one or many watch lists then so be it. Nah, we're not alone and that is exactly why many wish to control so much of our lives...but their gonna have to fight me & many others to do it.
Butt-Covering Disclaimer: I in no way intend the word "fight" used in the above statement to be twisted into a version that would imply a physical battle. "

theproletariat87 wrote on Nov 9, 2009 9:42 PM:

" M that is the difference between us. I want a whole new constitution one that state an economic structure that prevents the abuse of workers and brings people to an equitable level. Another one that is an expansion of rights, a change of our legislative body, allowing the people to become the executive branch. The constitution should limit time served by politicians. "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Nov 9, 2009 9:46 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Nov 8, 2009 5:49 PM:

" A must see video, Goggle: SNL mocks Fox news.

Goggle? Harry you didnt write Goggle did you? I cant believe it! How can anyone have any respect for the intellectual opinion of someone that cant spell Google? Where is the Q? Wake up Q we have a misspelled word here. Your buddy, get on it. Like I said before Harry you really should have finished 5th grade. ;-) Thats OK Harry I understand, but I am still waiting for that number one reason of yours for being an old age evolutionist. In fact Ill make it easier for you. How about just giving me any reason for being an old age evolutionist.

I didn't have to Google it Harry I watched it on Fox News, they thought it was hilarious and so did I. "

shumphreys wrote on Nov 10, 2009 7:11 AM:

" M there isn't anything unconstitutional about Congress passing health care legislation. Article 1 Section 8 "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare of the United States;...." WHAT do you think "GENERAL WELFARE" includes? "

father bob wrote on Nov 10, 2009 11:00 AM:

" m wrote on Nov 9, 2009 8:19 PM:
"The thing with this health care issue is that it is unconstitutional."""""

wrong. just because the words "health care" aren't mentioned in the constitution DOESN'T make it unconstitutional. the words "general welfare" do exist.

given your reasoning, we shouldn't help hurricane or flood victims, or those homeless from tornadoes. we shouldn't have the Center for Disease Control or the FDA, the national guard or the military for that matter. we also shouldn't subsidize farmers or have the Medicare/Medicaid program. "

father bob wrote on Nov 10, 2009 11:10 AM:

" hey HP, did you happen to catch the WAPO article on Dede Scozzafava?

pretty good read and typical of the conservative's moronic mindset. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 10, 2009 12:12 PM:

" Happy to have made your day, Jon.

And what's with didnt and cant, shouldn't that be didn't and can't and didn't?

Why do you persist with the evolution argument? I have told you countless times that you've sold me on the idea that it's bunk. That great source you shared with me leaves no doubt that dinosaurs and man lived at the same time, and that the earth is in fact only 6000 years old. Besides that the intellectual Sarah Palin even confirmed that fact. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 10, 2009 2:49 PM:

" " hey HP, did you happen to catch the WAPO article on Dede Scozzafava?

pretty good read and typical of the conservative's moronic mindset. "

Thanks for the tip, fb. Just read it. Looks like the wacko wing has taken over the GOP. That's good. The more moderate Republicans they run off, the bigger the Democratic party will be. They're shooting themselves in the foot and don't even know it. The more they shrink their base, the worse off they will be, vote wise. As I've watched that party fall apart over the last year or so, I can't get over the idea that they think they can ever return to power with their actions of late. If the more sensible wing of the GOP doesn't act soon it may be too late for them. It's hard to believe that enough people in this country would vote for people like the nut ball Sarah Palin or possibly worse, Michelle Bachman. And yet those two have expressed a desire to be president. Palin couldn't cut it as governor and Bachman has become a laughing stock and embarrassment to her district. It just gets better by the day. "

The Question wrote on Nov 10, 2009 7:11 PM:

" From the St. Petersburg Times ...
A Marine reservist armed with a tire iron beat and chased a man he thought was an Arab terrorist and even called 911 to say he was detaining the man, police said.
But the man he assaulted was actually a Greek Orthodox priest visiting from overseas who spoke limited English, police said.
Instead of offering help, Bruce struck the priest on the head with a tire iron, police said.
---
Brilliant. What a brain trust. Must be a Palin supporter. "

m wrote on Nov 10, 2009 8:05 PM:

" FB & shumphreys:

http://constitutionalawareness.org/genwelf.html "

HeinekenMan wrote on Nov 10, 2009 9:17 PM:

" John V, I just want to help you out. In your last post, you should have placed a comma after "Harry". Also, you needed a second comma in that same sentence before "did you". Also, you are supposed to use "who" or "whom" when referring to a human being. You used "that" in referring to "someone". That's incorrect usage. I don't have all day. So I'll stop there. "

The Question wrote on Nov 10, 2009 9:21 PM:

" Former top executives at Blackwater Worldwide say the U.S. security contractor sent about $1 million to its Iraq office with the intention of paying off officials in the country who were angry about the fatal shootings of 17 civilians by Blackwater employees, The New York Times reported Tuesday.
Four former executives described the plan under the condition of anonymity.
Iraqis had long complained about ground operations by the North Carolina-based company, now known as Xe Corp. Then the shooting by Blackwater guards in Baghdad's Nisoor Square in September 2007 left 17 civilians dead.
---
Let's call it what it is: Republican blood money. "

Traveling Circus wrote on Nov 10, 2009 11:54 PM:

" M. - I took the bait and read that piece of propaganda you proposed in the link you posted. There is a fundamental flaw in your thinking. Of course, I believe someone else came up with this, spewed it all over Faux no-News, and you bought it hook, line and sinker.

Fact is those other "enumerations" are not a subcategory of the general welfare; they are a subcategory of Article I, Section 8.

Back to school for you! "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 11, 2009 6:38 AM:

" HeinekenMan wrote on Nov 10, 2009 9:17 PM:

" John V, I just want to help you out. In your last post, you should have placed a comma after "Harry". Also, you needed a second comma in that same sentence before "did you". Also, you are supposed to use "who" or "whom" when referring to a human being. You used "that" in referring to "someone". That's incorrect usage. I don't have all day. So I'll stop there. "

Ouch! that had to hurt. lol... "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 11, 2009 7:29 AM:

" Put this in the "ya gotta love it" category:

This must sting a bit. Sarah Palin's newest conspiracy theory on the "disturbing" redesign of U.S. coins was too much, even for Fox News -- on Tuesday night, Fox fact-checked Palin.

Last Friday, while speaking at a Wisconsin Right to Life fundraising banquet -- attendees were barred from bringing cell phones, cameras, laptops -- Palin rolled out the latest: an anti-Christian conspiracy in the redesign of U.S. coins. Palin waded into the subject by remarking that there had been a lot of "change" of late -- for example, the redesign of U.S. currency which moved the once-centered text "In God We Trust" to the edge of coins.

"Who calls a shot like that?" Palin demanded on Friday. "Who makes a decision like that?"

As Fox News anchor Bret Baier noted: President Bush, that's who.

As Sarah continues her down her self destructive path, I suspect that more right wingers will join Fox in exposing her for the idiot she really is. Yes, by all means bring on Sarah as the GOP's candidate in 2012. "

dillon715 wrote on Nov 11, 2009 8:58 AM:

" Hitler and every other dictator tried to supress the media, so there would be no objections to their agenda. Of course this applied to newspapers. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 11, 2009 9:07 AM:

" Leave it to John Stewart of Comedy Central fame to bust Sean Hannity for showing fake video clips to make his point. Stewart totally debunked Hannity's use of another events video clips to make yet another phony story. Fox news, fair and balanced. lol! "

m wrote on Nov 11, 2009 9:23 AM:

" Back to school? Are you serious, circus side show? What is it with you people that you believe you get to decide for others what they will or will not do? Obama hasn't passed a law overnight that stipulates that I have to do what you command, did he? Well, since you seem to believe that Fox News guides my thought pattern, maybe I should tune in today and see if I have any rights left. For your information, circus side show, Fox had nothing to do with my link and I didn't lay any bait for anyone so whatever worm you choked on definitely wasn't mine. The fact that you saw it that way is very telling of what kind of a person you must be. "

The Question wrote on Nov 11, 2009 10:22 AM:

" Turns out Sean Hannity spliced in footage from the 9/12 rally on the Mall to make Michele Bachmann's Capitol Hill tea party last week look much, much bigger than it actually was.
Faking the news again. Another lie for my list of Fox News lies. They really know how to keep a collector busy. "

m wrote on Nov 11, 2009 10:31 AM:

" Circus side show, there has been a distortion of the Constitution and you are one of the many who are being misled. The health care bill does not fall into agreement with the original Constitution. The misleading portion I am referring to is the misinterpretation and misuse of the interstate commerce clause. It is a broadening of that particular clause that magically enables Congress to misuse it however they see fit. Our Constitution is not a living, breathing creature that can roll with the changes of the moral ineptitude of Congress, we the people or the WH. In fact, our founding fathers took safeguards in an attempt to avert the inevitable power hungry wolves of Congress but considering there are so few like our founding fathers in this generation, sadly our sole protection of our rights has been abused and re-abused by those who have political agendas and desires for personal gain above all things right and true. "

Tall One wrote on Nov 11, 2009 12:41 PM:

" I read this forum often to gain understanding from all points of view.
I watch MSNBC and FOX news and after all has been said it does come down to the "amount of money available" as Jack states. It doesn't matter what the issue is. Everyone of us knows this from our daily lives if we live responsibly.

The presidents job is limited to 8 years. When are we going to limit the terms of congress? Career politicians have no touch with the reality each of us deal with. How many of them have owned a small business? Which is the back bone of this country. How could it be that over 80% of congress members are or were attorneys? Election laws need changed now with term limits! Campiagn finance laws should allow the field to be even so the law could be written " by the people and for the people".

The irresponsible spending has gone on to long by both parties. The lending policies mandated by the senate banking commitee on lenders was the cause of the financial melt down. What happened to " if you can't afford it, you can have it"?

Much of what both "parties" in congress have done is unconstitutional.
Remember where it says that the federal goverment has no rights unless it is specifically given to them by the states?

I agree with Jack. The first amendment entitles all of us to the right of freedom of speech. All sectors of goverment should encourage it, not try to limit it, including the White House. "

The Question wrote on Nov 11, 2009 1:24 PM:

" It amazes me that right wingers continue to flap their yaps loudly and endlessly in public forums and on TV and radio about someone "limiting their freedom of speech." What obvious claptrap.
The White House has not SILENCED Fox News, or even attempted to. It has EXPOSED Fox News FOR WHAT IT IS a lying propaganda operation. "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Nov 11, 2009 1:27 PM:

" Ok Potter enough with the spell checking - you can't spell Google and I used that instead of who. So what! I had the apostrophes in can't and didn't on my copy I posted, I keep copies of what I post, so what happened to them? HP you have problems much bigger than not being able to spell Google. You still have not offered even one reason for your faith in evolution and you still have not been able to explain how ancient man of 3,500 years ago knew what dinosaurs looked like. I give you evidence for my faith but you do not give me any for your faith. "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Nov 11, 2009 1:30 PM:

" HeinekenMan, I don't know of any "John V"

Even you my friend can make a Typo. "

shumphreys wrote on Nov 11, 2009 2:27 PM:

" M the problem with the argument the group you mention makes is found in the opening paragraph of the Constitution where the term "general welfare" is also spellled out. "in order to form a more perfect uniion, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare." If they didn't mean "general welfare" they wouldn't have put it in the opening paragraph and it is in Article 1 Section 8 to establish taxing for such as a legitimate federal power. For the Constitutional group to flatly declare that the words "general welfare" were never intended to mean "general welfare" is rather silly, don't you think? AND if you look at the punctuation of the clause it is obvious that, "to pay the debts and provide for the common defence and general welfare" are parts of those enumerated powers. "

shumphreys wrote on Nov 11, 2009 2:50 PM:

" Then M there is the problem with the last paragraph of Article 1 Section 8, "To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, AND ALL other powers vested by the Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any department or officer therof." It seems to me that our founding fathers were intelligent enough to realize that a flexible Constitution was needed if this unique experiment of self-government was to survive and prosper longer than the generation that created it! "

The Question wrote on Nov 11, 2009 3:26 PM:

" Rupert Murdoch said he agrees with his prize clown Glenn Beck's assertion that President Obama is a racist. Confronted with that statement, Murdoch then said he DOESN'T agree with Beck but refused to explain.
The use of the term "agree with" presumes intellectual consistency and a valuation of fact. Neither applies with propagandists like Murdoch and Beck. You just say whatever promotes your poisonous fascist agenda at the moment. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 11, 2009 3:40 PM:

" Jon Vanatta wrote on Nov 11, 2009 1:27 PM:

" Ok Potter enough with the spell checking - you can't spell Google and I used that instead of who. So what! I had the apostrophes in can't and didn't on my copy I posted, I keep copies of what I post, so what happened to them? HP you have problems much bigger than not being able to spell Google. You still have not offered even one reason for your faith in evolution and you still have not been able to explain how ancient man of 3,500 years ago knew what dinosaurs looked like. I give you evidence for my faith but you do not give me any for your faith. "

Good grief, Jon. I admitted I made a spelling error. I reference Google on a regular basis, and the first time I misspell it you claim I can't. And that nonsense about apostrophes isn't fooling anyone. As usual you can't admit when you make a mistake, can you? As far as your proof goes, I don't accept a biased web site by some religious fanatics as proof of anything. Come back when you can show a legitimate source such as a University department dealing with ancient civilizations. Actually any source that isn't religious oriented will do.

By the way OK is the proper way to express that term, not Ok. lol! "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Nov 11, 2009 10:21 PM:

" Well Harry Potter now we are getting somewhere and I will say to you, Why should I accept a biased web site by some evolutionary fanatics as proof of anything? When did I ever say I had proof? I asked you how you could explain how ancient man could have known what dinosaurs looked like. University departments are just as biased toward evolution as religious sites are for creation. University departments dont have proof either and we all know they have tried to push through plenty of fraudulent evidence as proof (Nebraska Man, peppered moths, and Haeckels embryos, just to name a few). We all have the same evidence it is a matter of how we choose to interpret it. Now Harry would you like to tell me about your faith and why you have it? You said, show me any source that isnt religious oriented. That just does not cut it Harry.
That is equivalent to me saying to you, show me any source that isnt evolution oriented to prove evolution. Harry, I could show you many sources that are offering evidence for intelligent design, ones that are not religious, in fact some intelligent design scientists even claim to be atheists and are working in university science departments.

Harry you just keep avoiding and sidestepping the question I asked you. I have told you before I am not asking you for proof because I know you have none. I am only asking you what is your number one reason for being an evolutionist. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 12, 2009 7:23 AM:

" Interestingly, when the results for each dinosaur were arranged into an evolutionary family tree, the researchers found warm-bloodedness might have been present among the most ancient dinosaurs, suggesting it might be the ancestral condition for all dinosaurs. This could be one of the key factors in the massive success that dinosaurs enjoyed for more than 160 million years, the researchers noted.
Fox news science report-

How can this be if the earth is only 6000 years old, Jon. You seem to want to tout the validity of Fox, so I guess you agree with this one too, huh? "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 12, 2009 7:28 AM:

" CNN's Lou Dobbs, a lightning rod for criticism following his transition from a business journalist to an opinionated anchor on such issues as illegal immigration, told viewers on Wednesday that he was quitting his nightly show to pursue new opportunities.
AP-

Is there anyone who seriously doubts where he will be showing up? "

sophiesmom wrote on Nov 12, 2009 7:45 AM:

" If nothing else, watching Fox News should stimulate your own mind to start thinking and compare all the other networks. It certainly doesn't hurt to watch both and compare.
I used to take the network news as gospel, I didn't think for myself. Now, I like to compare them and not take anything as gospel.
The main thing I have against Fox is, that they keep repeating things over and over.
But I'm glad to have different viewpoints and then make up my own mind. "

The Question wrote on Nov 12, 2009 8:52 AM:

" Fox News' Sean Hannity apologized last night for using footage of a much bigger 9/12 rally during a segment about Rep. Michele Bachmann's tea party rally at the Capitol last week in an attempt to make the tea party look much bigger than it actually was.
That would be the first time Fox News has apologized for one of its many deliberate, ruthless lies. I guess this one was too big to dodge. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Nov 12, 2009 9:23 AM:

" Harry come on just be a bigger man and admit you spelled google wrong. LMAOOOOOOOO :-P "

The Question wrote on Nov 12, 2009 10:01 AM:

" "If nothing else, watching Fox News should stimulate your own mind to start thinking and compare all the other networks."
---
Comparing documented facts to faked Fox News footage and lies certainly does "stimulate the thinking," doesn't it, mom? Unfortunately, Fox News isn't in business to stimulate anyone's thinking. It's in business to confuse the gullible and weak-minded. "

even steven wrote on Nov 12, 2009 10:44 AM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Nov 9, 2009 7:43 PM:

" Nancy Pelosi brilliant? She's the very definition of idiot. "

I wondered who would take the bait on that teaser. lol!

Oh... I guess you got me! It's nice to know that you agree with me that she's an idiot. There is hope for you after all. "

The Question wrote on Nov 12, 2009 12:06 PM:

" Fox News beauty-queen Christian darling Carrie Prejean turns out to be a p0rn performer who presumes to lecture America on sexual morality. The stupidity and hypocrisy of right wingers is simply staggering sometimes. "

father bob wrote on Nov 12, 2009 12:16 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Nov 12, 2009 7:14 AM:
"You must have missed it, fb. Hopefully Jon will post it again. It was quite entertaining to say the least. """""

hey, i always appreciate a good chuckle. "

father bob wrote on Nov 12, 2009 12:26 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Nov 12, 2009 7:28 AM:
" CNN's Lou Dobbs, a lightning rod for criticism following his transition from a business journalist to an opinionated anchor on such issues as illegal immigration, told viewers on Wednesday that he was quitting his nightly show to pursue new opportunities.
AP-

Is there anyone who seriously doubts where he will be showing up? """""

my guess is he'll be joining the other bigots at Fox Noise of course....

guess CNN got tired of the bad publicity and baggage louie piled on them. "

father bob wrote on Nov 12, 2009 12:36 PM:

" TQ, HP, etal

a little project i've been working on:

http://tinyurl.com/yexmjyr "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 12, 2009 1:06 PM:

" Harry come on just be a bigger man and admit you spelled google wrong. LMAOOOOOOOO :-P "

Come on Rohn, cut me some slack, Buddy. I would refer you to my post at 3:40 yesterday where I fessed up to making a spelling error. I didn't try to weasel out of my mistake like Jon did by trying to blame in on the site host. And hey, if we're going to get picky that would be Google, not google. LOL! "

Danny Boy wrote on Nov 12, 2009 1:18 PM:

" Please JG...close this thread, it has gotten way off the subject. It's just taking up hard drive space..... "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 12, 2009 1:55 PM:

" Sorry Jon, but you're going to have to do better than direct me to a laughable fairy tale site that shows rock formations that resemble dinosaurs, ancient depictions of winged fire breathing dragons, ancient figurines and other such nonsense that have no scientific basis. And you're right, I can't conclusively prove that evolution is real, just like you can't prove your theories. But I will stick with modern science opposed to the ridiculous theory you propose that the earth is only 6000 or so years old. That makes as much sense as saying the earth is flat. You don't think that too, do you? It's no wonder that you think Sarah Palin is brilliant. "

The Question wrote on Nov 12, 2009 1:59 PM:

" " Please JG...close this thread, it has gotten way off the subject. It's just taking up hard drive space..... "
---
Nice of you to be so bizarrely concerned about the newspaper's hard drive space, Danny.
Or could it be that you just trying to shut people up because you can't answer their arguments? "

BW wrote on Nov 12, 2009 2:30 PM:

" TQ, Apparently you've seen the movie. I've missed it. My understanding is that it's a "home" movie she made while young and stupid. You seem to think this precludes her from being a Christian. You see, TQ, that's what a Christian is-a saved sinner. God doesn't judge the degree of sin, he forgives them all when we acknowledge Jesus as our savior and strive to turn from our sins. Even you, TQ. "

The Question wrote on Nov 12, 2009 2:38 PM:

" So what do fundamentalist Christians like Prejean do in their holy sex videos anyway? Shout "Oh god!" a lot more than usual? "

father bob wrote on Nov 12, 2009 2:46 PM:

" BW wrote on Nov 12, 2009 2:30 PM:
"God doesn't judge the degree of sin, he forgives them all when we acknowledge Jesus as our savior and strive to turn from our sins. Even you, TQ. """""

BW, some of us don't believe in ghosts. if you must, feel free, it's a free country....but do it quietly, and don't infringe on our freedoms not to believe in that same ghost. "

The Question wrote on Nov 12, 2009 3:11 PM:

" Maybe Prejean can have another book ghostwritten for her. Call it "Naughty, Naughty! What You Should Not Do With Your Private Parts, by a Hypocritical Little Strumpet." "

father bob wrote on Nov 12, 2009 3:36 PM:

" how to speak teabag:

http://tinyurl.com/yk3anbg "

father bob wrote on Nov 12, 2009 4:14 PM:

" The Question wrote on Nov 12, 2009 2:38 PM:
" So what do fundamentalist Christians like Prejean do in their holy sex videos anyway? Shout "Oh god!" a lot more than usual? """""

yes along with endless repetition of "Oh Jesus!" "

Danny Boy wrote on Nov 12, 2009 5:07 PM:

" The Question wrote on Nov 12

Nice of you to be so bizarrely concerned about the newspaper's hard drive space, Danny.
Or could it be that you just trying to shut people up because you can't answer their arguments? "
---------------------------------------

No Habla English Senior..Waiting for
free Mucho Deniro from Republican politico party, and free comida mexicana food stamps .......LOL "

BW wrote on Nov 12, 2009 5:09 PM:

" So, Father Bob, you can dish it out but you can't take it. What a surprise. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Nov 12, 2009 5:38 PM:

" Harry my friend I seen that more than one time. That is why the > LMAOOOOOOOO :-P. I thought you would have caught it. I noticed how he continued about it so I was mocking him.
I noticed the goggle and how fast he yapped. But I also agree with him that tq did not say anything about it. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 12, 2009 6:49 PM:

" Maybe Prejean can have another book ghostwritten for her. Call it "Naughty, Naughty! What You Should Not Do With Your Private Parts, by a Hypocritical Little Strumpet."

I still think a Palin video of something to this this will surface, TQ. Scratch the surface of a holier than thou type and you will usually find some sort of perversion. Remember Newt's actions during the Clinton/Monica scandal, and how many candidates the GOP had to run through to find someone to replace Newt for the speaker's job. The first three has some sort of a some sex scandal in their past? Some much for the party of family values, huh? "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Nov 12, 2009 8:28 PM:

" Too bad that Obama is not as aggressive in dealing with Islamic terrorists as he is with his dissenters.

I just thought I would try to get this thread back on track since it is getting pretty boring waiting for Harry to say something intelligent. We already know foddy bobby cant add any intelligence. The Q is too busy spell checking to be intelligent. LOL Looks like Susan has grown weary of trying to cover for you Harry.

Come to think of it Harry is just like Ben Steins movie, Expelled no Intelligence allowed. Youre safe Harry, you wont be expelled.

Im just waiting. Dum dee dum, dee dumb di do, wonder if Harry will ever come thru? Oh oh! spelling. :-( "

tempwayfarer wrote on Nov 12, 2009 11:37 PM:

" shumphreys, the General Welfare Clause gives Congress (and government generally) no additional powers. The Supreme Court says so.

If government could use the welfare clause to do whatever it claimed was for the general welfare, then the rest of the Constitution is unnecessary and The Founders wasted their time on it, since all the government would really need is one paragraph:

"The Federal Government shall have power to lay taxes and make all laws necessary to provide for the general welfare of people of the United States."

Obviously The Founders thought that Powers should be defined and limited, since they plainly said that was the case. The icing on the cake is the 10th amendment: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

If, as you say, the welfare clause gives government power to do anything for the general welfare, NOTHING, no Powers would be left for the States or The People.

Once again your logic fails. Might want to start reading up on what the Supreme Court has had to say on certain issues so that your opinions would be better informed. You can use google for that. "

tempwayfarer wrote on Nov 12, 2009 11:55 PM:

" shumphreys, looks like I was wrong. When FDR threatened to pack the Supreme Court, it gave him what he wanted: Power.
http://constitutionalawareness.org/genwelf.html
Justice Roberts, writing in 1951, said in effect: "We voted against the Constitution to save the Court."

"... the social security cases [Steward Machine Co. v. Davis (301 us 548, May 24, 1937)] Constitutional.[4] [P.56] This Roberts did, and by so doing, took the wind from the sails of the President's court packing plan. It went back to committee and died. one Administration official called the court's action, "the switch in time that saved nine."

This decision said in effect, Congress would no longer be held to enumerated powers but instead could tax and spend for anything; so long as it was for "general welfare.""

So shumphreys, looks like you are right and the Supreme Court changed everything by saying it's OK with the Constitution for the Federal government to do anything it wants, for the general welfare, of course. So, how do you like living in a Totalitarian State? "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 13, 2009 7:31 AM:

" In his decision dismissing a lawsuit filed by Orly Taitz late last month, U.S. District Court Judge David O. Carterr mentioned that some witnesses complained that the birther chief urged them to lie on the stand. Now, more details are out, as one of the witnesses has made his affidavit public.

Lucas Smith, a fellow conspiracy theorist who Taitz identified in her lawsuit as the discoverer of Obama's Kenyan birth certificate, gave his statement to the Orange County Register.
Huffington post-

In addition, one witness signed an affidavit stating that Taitz was committing adultery with others involved in her actions to discredit the president.

Orly attempting to get witnesses to lie and sleeping with her associates? Say it isn't so, Jon. "

shumphreys wrote on Nov 13, 2009 7:37 AM:

" Sorry Tempwayfarer my logic (and yours and M's) is the basis for the whole debate since the first president tried to do more for the people than some of the people thought he should. Purposes of General Welfare have been upheld by the Supreme Court, notice we have a US Department of: Agriculture, Transportation, Drug Enforcement Agency,........ Powers that many of these agencies have are not spelled out in the Constitution. As I said our founding fathers were wise enough to realize that a Constitution had to be flexible if it was to pass the test of time and threw in those pesky little phrases as "and all other powers vested by this Constitution". That leaves lots of room for flexing your power and doing what is in the best interest of the people. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 13, 2009 11:48 AM:

" Hey fb, have you seen the pictures of rock formations Jon's trying to pass off as cavemen drawings of dinosaurs? They're reminiscent of the pictures people see of Jesus on pieces of toast in Mexico. "

Danny Boy wrote on Nov 13, 2009 12:33 PM:

" John I think you meant:

There she was just a-walkin' down the street, singin' "Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do"
Snappin' her fingers and shufflin' her feet, singin' "Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do"
She looked good (looked good), she looked fine (looked fine)
She looked good, she looked fine and I nearly lost my mind

Before I knew it she was walkin' next to me, singin' "Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do"
Holdin' my hand just as natural as can be, singin' "Do wah diddy diddy dum diddy do"
We walked on (walked on) to my door (my door)
We walked on to my door, then we kissed a little more "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 13, 2009 1:00 PM:

" Ezell Harris, a Florida conservative who launched his campaign for Orlando City Council at a Tea Party rally, has been arrested on drug trafficking charges.
AP-

Anyone think Fox news will go on about this for weeks? They sure did when an isolated ACORN scandal erupted. I seriously doubt that they will even mention it. If they do, it will only be in passing. "

father bob wrote on Nov 13, 2009 2:58 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Nov 13, 2009 11:48 AM:
" Hey fb, have you seen the pictures of rock formations Jon's trying to pass off as cavemen drawings of dinosaurs? They're reminiscent of the pictures people see of Jesus on pieces of toast in Mexico. """""

funny you should mention that phenomenon HP. i had a perfect likeness of Ronald Reagan appear in my spaghetti last night. "

shumphreys wrote on Nov 13, 2009 3:14 PM:

" Actually Tempwayfarer I like living in the US of A in spite of all of its flaws and its less than perfect status. I like living in a country that attempts to look out for the least of its citizens (even though some of those attempts are less than perfect). "

shumphreys wrote on Nov 13, 2009 4:26 PM:

" Mr. Vanatta should be careful about the "evidence" he sites. Van Daniken used similar evidence to support men from outer space theories. I think the men from outer space theories are more plausible than men and dinosaurs! One should also google dinosaurs and humans to see the "evidence" Mr. Vanatta sites than go to "paleo.cc/paluxy/onheel.htm for the "rest or should I say REAL story"! "

The Question wrote on Nov 13, 2009 5:58 PM:

" The reassertion of the rule of law in the United States, after Bush and Cheney smeared the Constitution with their filth, is long overdue. The U.S. use of torture and its destruction of legal rights has not gone unnoticed in the rest of the world.
"A country in breach of its international obligations on at least three counts (the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, the Third Geneva Convention and the UN Convention Against Torture) may be obeyed but it is nowhere admired," Jeremy Harding wrote in the London Review of Books. "

Locke wrote on Nov 14, 2009 11:03 AM:

" "The health care issue is not really about health care at all, but is wholly a political affair."

I'm glad you admit to how you see the issue Jack -- we know many other conservatives are in agreement with you.

Maybe that is how you see the issue, but for the millions without health care or substandard access to good health, they might disagree.

I'm just sorry you are playing politics with their health. "

Locke wrote on Nov 14, 2009 11:07 AM:

" "Obama is a thin-skinned narcissist who can't stand scrutiny..."

I look at it like this. For the last 24 months there has been a really obnoxious kid calling you names, throwing rocks, and spreading lies about you. You try and be an adult, let it go, but one day you just had enough. You smack him in the mouth. What does the obnoxious kid do then? He cries foul and throws a tandrum. "

Locke wrote on Nov 14, 2009 11:16 AM:

" "...you still have not been able to explain how ancient man of 3,500 years ago knew what dinosaurs looked like..."

Oh yes, that is such an accurate description. Wow, that is proof for me! Do you realize that could be used to describe any sort of fantasic monster.

Why didn't the people of 3,500 years ago write about the 100s of other dinosaur variants besides that since one?

Why didn't we have more writings about them, oh I know, the great flood came and killed everyone and destroyed all the writing.

Lets see, all this scientific evidence on one hand, this brief passage from a religious text in another...

There world is not 4,000 years old. End of story. If that invalidates your fairy tale, subscribe to a different one, okay? "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 14, 2009 1:03 PM:

" " Mr. Vanatta should be careful about the "evidence" he sites. Van Daniken used similar evidence to support men from outer space theories. I think the men from outer space theories are more plausible than men and dinosaurs! One should also google dinosaurs and humans to see the "evidence" Mr. Vanatta sites than go to "paleo.cc/paluxy/onheel.htm for the "rest or should I say REAL story"! "

Good link, Susan. It makes a lot more sense than using natural rock formations resembling dinosaurs to prove your point.

Your comment will get reverend Jon accusing you of babysitting me again. lol! "

The Question wrote on Nov 14, 2009 6:47 PM:

" funny you should mention that phenomenon HP. i had a perfect likeness of Ronald Reagan appear in my spaghetti last night.
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Every time I have a banana, it reminds me of George W. Bush. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 14, 2009 9:54 PM:

" I posted about an image of Dick Cheney I saw this morning but for some reason it didn't make the cut on here, so I guess you could day it got flushed. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Nov 14, 2009 11:13 PM:

" Every time I have a banana, it reminds me of George W. Bush. "
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Wow...how ironic?

And everytime I reach for the rolled toilet paper I think of Obama! "

father bob wrote on Nov 15, 2009 9:21 AM:

" The Question wrote on Nov 14, 2009 6:47 PM:
" funny you should mention that phenomenon HP. i had a perfect likeness of Ronald Reagan appear in my spaghetti last night.
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Every time I have a banana, it reminds me of George W. Bush. """"""

now that's funny!! "

Rockin Rotty wrote on Nov 15, 2009 8:00 PM:

" Funny you should mention that, NeoCon....

Everytime the wife does the laundry, & she "throws in the towels", we think of Obama as well.
LOL! "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Nov 16, 2009 1:16 PM:

" Locke, I am really surprised you see Obama as an obnoxious kid! Is this the first thing we have agreed on? "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Nov 16, 2009 2:22 PM:

" Locke wrote on Nov 14, 2009 11:16 AM:
Why didn't the people of 3,500 years ago write about the 100s of other dinosaur variants besides that since one? It is a little difficult to understand your sentence structure Locke but maybe that is the only type the man saw Locke. Or even if he did see other variants he didnt have to draw them all now did he? They not only drew pictures of dinosaurs but also carved out replicas of dinosaurs on a Mesopotamian cylinder seal dated at 3300 BC. . Quite different than a supposed image seen in a piece of toast isnt it.

A jade statute like the dinosaur Saurolophus from the Shang Dynasty is dated somewhere between the 13th and 18th centuries B.C. Not too much like toast either huh Locke?

It is interesting and significant in that it relates to other posts I have made about how evolutionists like to censor and suppress evidence and information. Bernifal Cave in France where many Neanderthal artifacts have been found has been closed to the public because too many finds were showing old age theory has serious problems. The credibility of the evolutionary storytellers is really wearing quite thin.

There are some pretty fantasic (Lockes spelling) monsters described in the Bible! Ever read the Bible Locke?

Wrong again about the flood Locke. It didnt destroy everyone, just those that did not believe and did not get in the ark before God closed the door. Moses wrote the Pentateuch long after the flood Locke. Dinosaurs survived the flood Locke. You really ought to read it before you make such outrageous accusations.

Well we agree again on something else Locke; the world is not 4,000 years old. "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Nov 16, 2009 3:06 PM:

" Ms. Humphreys I looked at the paleo.cc/paluxy/onheel.htm website. You should know that it is nothing more than a website from an evolutionary source dedicated not to science but to ridicule creation scientists. I would like to point out that I have never used footprints purported to be mans and that have been found along with dinosaur footprints as evidence. That is not scientifically reliable and any responsible creationist will not use it for that reason. Sincere creationists do not use questionable discoveries as proof that cannot be verified like almost all evolutionists do.
Ms. Humphreys you should be knowledgeable enough to know that the same evidence is available for creation as is for evolution. It is all in how we interpret it. Evolution has nothing that can be proven. We cannot prove creation but the Bible has been proven though much research, and is reliable evidence for how the world and everything in it was created. Evolution has nothing on the par of the Bible for evidence. It takes more faith to be an evolutionist than it takes to be a creationist. "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Nov 16, 2009 4:05 PM:

" father bob wrote on Nov 16, 2009 11:11 AM:

" i see where sarah, the political harlot, doesn't believe in evolution.....

Wow! You are really on top of the news aren't you foddy bobby? Of course she doesn't believe in ridiculous evolution, what thinking person would. She has always made that known as well as Mike Huckabee has. Thank God there are some thinking politicians but for you Sarah is only the recipient of name calling. Is that the best you can do? Typical! "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Nov 16, 2009 7:01 PM:

" Foddy bobby that is pretty amazing you have already bought and read Sarah's new book already and it is not released until tomorrow! You sure were anxious to read it! Hope you learned something. "

shumphreys wrote on Nov 17, 2009 8:06 AM:

" Mr. Vanatta I have shown you that the Bible is full of false information and contradictions. You can't deny that unfortunate reality. The words are there for all to read. AND it starts in the first two chapters. I am glad you looked at the website. Whether you accept the truth or not you have at least read it and like a virus the truth once planted grows and grows and grows. Before you know it you will be singing evolutions praises. "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Nov 17, 2009 2:01 PM:

" Sorry Ms. Humphreys but I most certainly can deny that the Bible is full of false information and contradictions and I will emphatically. "

shumphreys wrote on Nov 17, 2009 2:52 PM:

" You are right Mr. Vanatta YOU can deny reality, and you do so time and time again. I should have said it doesn't do you any good to deny reality. It will always come around and slap you in the face when you least expect it. You are controlled by "Mortons Demon". Another great article you should investigate "www.answersincreation.org/mortond.htm" . It is an article right up your alley about "Creation Science." "

cedric66 wrote on Nov 19, 2009 2:26 PM:

" The Question wrote on Nov 14, 2009 6:47 PM:

" funny you should mention that phenomenon HP. i had a perfect likeness of Ronald Reagan appear in my spaghetti last night.
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Every time I have a banana, it reminds me of George W. Bush. "

sure it wasn't Bonnie Frank you saw? "