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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Lee Enterprises

Wednesday, October 21, 2009 10:21 PM CDT
Poll shows Illinoisans want big budget cuts but oppose trimming in many areas

By CALEB HALE, Lee News Service

CARBONDALE — Illinoisans think the state needs to make big cuts to its budget, but they can’t identify where they should be made.

Those are the latest results from a statewide poll taken by the Paul Simon Public Policy Institute at Southern Illinois University Carbondale.

Of the 800 registered voters asked, 56.5 percent of people think the state’s budget problems could be solved by cutting waste in government, but they opposed cuts suggested to many areas in the survey, including K-12 education and higher education, public safety, state parks and programs for poor people.

One in ten people, 9.5 percent, think only a revenue increase could fix the problem; 27.3 percent said a combination of budget cuts and tax increases could help. However, 65.5 percent of voters oppose raising the state’s income tax from 3 percent to 4.5 percent, as proposed by Gov. Pat Quinn earlier this year; 75.8 percent oppose an increase in the state sales tax and 53.3 percent oppose expanding the sales tax to cover more services.

A majority of people asked also oppose expansions of gambling and selling state assets.

“These numbers pose a real quandary for political leaders in the state,” institute Director David Yepsen. “People say they want to cut state services, but they can’t seem to point to things that should be trimmed.

Charles Leonard, a visiting institute professor who supervised the poll, said the survey also indicates a problematic belief among voters that the budget can be fixed simply by trimming back government agencies and problems. Doing so, he added, doesn’t adequately address the state’s deficit spending habits.

Yepsen said no matter what legislators do, it appears they’ll make people mad, which is why significant action on the budget may be waiting until after the primary election in February.

Highlights of the poll include:

- 84.4 percent oppose cuts to K-12 education;

- 61.4 percent oppose cuts to higher education;

- 79.8 percent oppose cuts to state police or prison operations;

- 63 percent oppose cuts to state parks or environmental project;

- 72.4 percent oppose cuts to programs for the poor;

-85.3 percent oppose cuts in programs for people with mental and physical disabilities;

- 53.4 percent oppose cuts to state pensions.

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devilishangel61401 wrote on Oct 21, 2009 12:37 PM:

" Well no wonder no one can decide where to cut the budget if the only options they are given to choose from are the programs that are much needed. Here are my ideas on where to cut the state's budget:

1. Every Politician in Illinois takes at least a 10% pay cut.

2. We stop the funding of the "super train" from Chicago to St. Louis that can wait until we get the state's budget back into the red.

3. Stop wasting money on surveys to tell the goverment what the people want. Have the "suggestions" placed on the ballot come election time, or have politicians go around to various towns and cities and hold "town hall meetings" to ask what cuts citizens of Illinois want to see.

4. If we need to cut funding to a few state parks for the time being then so be it. We should never ever cut funding for any type of education, and right now with the country's entire economy in the toliet everyone is "poor" and needs every helping hand they can get.

Raising the state taxes is not going to help anyone, because right now no one can afford to pay the increase. If people have less money coming in then it stands to reason that they have less money to spend that means that the majority of people will cut back on what they purchase and the types of recreation they enjoy and will need to rely more heavily on programs that provide assistance of some type. "

Becky wrote on Oct 21, 2009 1:55 PM:

" Here's a start:
http://www.cagw.org/site/News2?page=NewsArticle&id=11378

The $686 Million in Illinois Wasteful Spending includes:

$4 million for a Ford Technical Training Center in Chicago Heights;

$1 million for the Illinois film office in Chicago;

$920,000 for the Chicago Aerospace Education Initiative;

$550,000 for the conservation of pheasants;

$500,000 to administer the tanning facility permit act;

$156,000 to Southern Illinois University to refurnish cabins at the Touch of Nature Environmental Center at Southern Illinois University Carbondale;

$40,000 for the Springfield Figure Skating Club; and

$35,000 for the Prairie Aviation Museum for a display gallery in Bloomington.

Plus, if we legalizes pot, we would save hundreds of millions a year with that too.

And stop wasting money on stupid POLLS!!! If the pols would read their mail and listen to their constituents they would already KNOW what we are thinking. "

OU812 wrote on Oct 21, 2009 3:14 PM:

" I think that the Government Officials
within the State House should work for
minimum wages, instead of the thousands
they're currently getting paid. This includes the Governor. A tax increase is not the way to fix the problem we face. They got us all into this mess and they alone need to fix it..not the
citizens. Maybe they should also make the former Governor and all of his crooked partners pay the State back the millions of dollars they stole. That would be a step in the right direction. "

OU812 wrote on Oct 21, 2009 3:25 PM:

" Let's see...where to start.

#1. Do not raise income taxes. So many of us are unemployed that it's just not funny anymore. Raising Taxes is'nt the way to help this State.

#2. Let the voters of Illinois speak and turn Chicago into the 51st State.

#3. Stop sending so much money to Chicago. They seem to be getting alot of money that could be used elsewhere.

#4. If we must close State Parks, then only close the ones that don't make alot of revenue.

#5. Start a program that requires the farmers to pay for and install license plates on their tractors and combines.
They use our roads too and tear them up as much as we do.

#6. The Government should legalize marijuana and grow and sell it to any citizen. They could reap millions of dollars in one season.

#7. All Legislators and the Governor should take a 25% pay cut for 5 years. "

Tpaine wrote on Oct 21, 2009 5:13 PM:

" In response to OU812:

#1
Of those states which impose an income tax, the lowest maximum rate is that of Illinois

#2
Brilliant, this state needs more revenue and we want to kick out the metropolitan area that makes most of it

#3
Chicago gets so much money because they have over half of the population of illinois. Chicago is rated the 4th most important business center in the world with the most new corporations in the U.S. and the 2nd largest labor pool in the nation.

#4
At some point you have to decide whats important. I love going to the state parks in the area, but I am also willing to raise my taxes to keep them open.

#5
Tractors do not tear up our roads as much as cars do.

#6
Agreed, although I hope your not saying the government should sell it.

#7
Soooo, take a couple people that feel the need to steal money and give them a 25% pay cut, I wonder whats going to happen then. I love how everybody thinks our politicians should get pay cuts. It is one of the most important jobs in the nation, cutting their pay is not the way to get the best in brightest in those positions. It is however a good way to get even more crooks in those positions. The people elected to make some of the most important decisions in our lives make less than $200,000/year, the worst baseball player in the majors makes double that amount. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Oct 21, 2009 6:07 PM:

" Budget cuts?

Hey I know...I've got a novel idea...

How about seeking increases in productivity and efficiency first, and not just paying "lip service" to increases in productivity and efficiency like we usually get, and THEN budget cuts, ya' know...like they do in the private sector?

Yeah I know...it'll never work.

That would require administrators to act as those the were acting on the behalf of the taxpayer rather than acting on the behalf of their political cronies... "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Oct 21, 2009 6:31 PM:

" #1
Of those states which impose an income tax, the lowest maximum rate is that of Illinois
-----------------

And now the rest of the story...

In 2009, Illinois taxpayers had to work until April 13 to pay their total tax bill, ranking the state 15th nationally.

Illinois' Tax Freedom Day falls on the same day as national Tax Freedom Day. The Tax Freedom Days of neighboring states are: Wisconsin, April 13 (ranked 12th nationally); Iowa, April 4 (ranked 39th nationally); Missouri, April 6 (ranked 34th nationally); Kentucky, April 3 (ranked 41st nationally); and Indiana, April 8 (ranked 28th nationally).

So WE LOSE to all of our neighbor's except 1, Wisconsin. Which is a big deal in an agricultural/industrial economy based state.

Can you say "big sucking sound"?

Illinois ranks 23rd in the Tax Foundation's State Business Tax Climate Index. The Index compares the states in five areas of taxation that impact business: corporate taxes; individual income taxes; sales taxes; unemployment insurance taxes; and taxes on property, including residential and commercial property. Neighboring states ranked as follows: Wisconsin (38th), Iowa (44th), Missouri (16th), Kentucky (34th) and Indiana (14th).

Again we lose to neighbors Wisconsin, Iowa, Kentucky. Can you say "big sucking sound"? Which is a big deal in an agricultural/industrial economy based state.

Illinois' personal income tax system consists of a flat 3% rate on federal adjusted gross income. That rate is the lowest among states that levy individual income taxes. Illinois' 2006 individual income tax collections were $677 per person, which ranked 33rd highest nationally.

In 2007, state-level corporate tax collections (excluding local taxes) were $229 per capita, which ranks 11th HIGHEST nationally.

Can you say "big sucking sound"? Which is a big deal in an agricultural/industrial economy based state.

Illinois levies a 6.25% general sales or use tax on consumers, which is above the national median of 6%.

Can you say "big sucking sound"? Which is a big deal in an agricultural/industrial economy based state.

Illinois' gasoline tax stands at 33.8 cents per gallon, which ranks 6th HIGHEST nationally.

Can you say "big sucking sound"? Which is a big deal in an agricultural/industrial economy based state.

llinois is one of the 37 states that collect property taxes at both the state and local levels. As in most states, local governments collect far more. Illinois' localities collected $1,528.87 per capita in property taxes in fiscal year 2006, which is the latest year for which the Census Bureau has published state-by-state data. At the state level, Illinois collected $5.07 during FY 2006. Combined state/local property taxes were $1,533.94, which rank 10th HIGHEST nationally.

Can you say "big sucking sound"? Which is a big deal in an agricultural/industrial economy based state.

Illinois taxpayers receive less federal funding per dollar of federal taxes paid compared to the average state. In 2005, Illinois citizens received approximately $0.75 in the way of federal spending per dollar of federal taxes paid. This ranks the state 45th nationally and represents a slight rise from 1995, when Illinois received $0.74 per dollar of taxes in federal spending and ranked 47th nationally. Neighboring states and the amount of federal spending they received per dollar of federal taxation paid were as follows: Wisconsin ($0.86), Iowa ($1.10), Missouri ($1.32), Kentucky ($1.51) and Indiana ($1.05).

Can you say "big sucking sound"? Which is a big deal in an agricultural/industrial economy based state.

SO COME AGAIN 'TPAINE' ABOUT THOSE TAX RATES?

WHY IS IT THAT THE FIRST OPTION IS TO RAISE TAXES, Hmmmm?

Yeah I know...there's liberal "facts" and then there's....the REAL facts...

Senator, I served with THOMAS PAINE, I knew THOMAS PAINE, THOMAS PAINE was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no THOMAS PAINE!

ROFLMAO! PIMP! "

Tpaine wrote on Oct 21, 2009 9:05 PM:

" NeoCon Academician
I think its odd that you compare us to our neighbors. Being that we have the 3rd largest city and are the 5th largest state and 5th largest economy I would think that you would compare us to california or New York, but I guess we have lowered our standards. Seriously, Why are we comparing ourselves to our neighbors? Our neighbors get more federal funding because they SUCK. Kentuck, Missouri, Indiana, Wisconsin? Maybe they should tax Meth production and they wouldn't need as much federal funds. You keep comparing us to the national average, but were not an average state.

Academician? - are you really a full member of a scientific academy? Maybe it should be NeoCon fullofcrap. Am I supposed to be impressed that you know who Thomas Paine is?

What's that big sucking sound? That's you attempting to appear smarter than you are by posting random numbers instead of coming up with original thoughts. By the way, just because I support a raise in taxes doesn't mean I am a liberal, but thanks for dumbing this debate down by closing your mind and assuming that one entire group of people is always wrong.

"Taxes are what we pay for civilized society.'' Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr., U.S. Supreme Court Justice

"The power of taxing people and their property is essential to the very existence of government.'' James Madison, U.S. President

"Taxes, after all, are dues that we pay for the privileges of membership in an organized society." ~Franklin D. Roosevelt

Look! I can throw out quotes by other people too!

ROFLMAO! PIMP! " "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Oct 22, 2009 12:51 AM:

" WOW! NeoCon fullofcrap... that was good!!! I FEAR THAT I HAVE TRULY MET MY MATCH in you Tpaine!

YOU, Tpaine, are truly a GIANT! I am not worthy!!!!

So now that I know my place with you... let me get this right... we should compare Illinois' tax base to California and New York...and hey I know... how a_b_o_u_t...wait this'll be good..M-I-C-H-I-G-A-N...wait a minute...give me a minute...I gotta stop laughing!!!!

Maybe you're not aware of the fiscal 'issues' involved with states like California, New York, Michigan (democrat strong holds no less), and so forth, who by the way have higher tax rates and calamitously low revenue intake now? Nah you knew that right? But you want our revenue to be that much lower, right?

Now I know, you know, I know, that you know that I attempt to appear smarter than I really am by posting random numbers instead of coming up with original thoughts, but OOPS! my numbers come from...hold on...the world may move...THE TAX FOUNDATION!!!
The Tax Foundation is a nonprofit organization that seeks to educate taxpayers about tax policy and the tax burden borne by Americans at all governmental levels. See http://stlouis.bizjournals.com/stlouis/stories/2009/10/19/daily10.html# and http://www.illinoispolicy.org/news/article.asp?ArticleSource=1509 and http://www.taxfoundation.org/publications/ and http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/24486.html and look at the numbers!

I mention the surrounding states because whether you or anyone are or are not willing to admit it we compete with them due to location and similar make up of economies.

And as manufacturing provides the single biggest portion to GDP (read into that good paying jobs) I guess your not aware of the new automobile plants that have opened in Indiana and Kentucky while several automotive and automotive-related plants have closed in Illinois. Don't believe my type in: Illinois automobile plant closings at Google. At the same time there's been a downturn nationally in the economy, with Illinois', Wisconsin's and Michigan's state finances in the red, Indiana and Kentuckys' are in the black. And that BIG SUCKING SOUND is Illinois jobs and $$$$ leaving the state!

- are you really a full member of a scientific academy? -

Nah...I'm a poseur!

And no don't be impressed...I knew who Thomas Paine was...'ats a pretty simple one.

But admit it...cccoooooommmmeee oooonnnn admit it...the Lloyd Bensen thing WAS FUNNY...you laughed... I know you laughed...I know you AT LEAST shook your head...and that's comedy at it's finest I tell you!

Hey here's a quote now for you:

"Give to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's." - Jesus Christ

OOPS! I quoted Christ! Watch the liberal wack jobs on here go crazy! "

Tpaine wrote on Oct 22, 2009 4:16 PM:

" time to beat the dead horse NeoCon:

Indiana and Wisconsin are getting auto plants because they have a much cheaper labor base(we are still in the top 10). Whether you or anyone else want to admit it our economy is not like Indiana or Kentucky. Kentucky's only major manufacturers are the auto companies and Indiana relies much more heavily on manufacturing than we do. Thanks to Chicago, we are much more dependent on services. No, we do not compete with Indiana or (especially) Kentucky for labor because it is significantly cheaper to make products there.

Indiana, Kentucky, Michigan, Wisconsin, etc. - none of them are even close to our GDP(especially per capita), yet most of them have a higher income tax than we do. You might be shocked to hear this but Illinois is still drawing in more corporations than either Indiana or Kentucky. Yes, our economy is much more similar to those of our large, "wealthy" counterparts.

Why does everything come down to conservative vs. liberal with you. Are you really that simple that that is what everything is ultimately broken down to. Are there really any differences between the two? They both end up doing the same crap and none of them follow through on their policies or beliefs, half the time doing the opposite of what they say they are going to do.

By the way, my Grandpa's name was Tom Payne, different spelling, but he was the one that taught me about him and got me interested in history - the name is a mixture of the two. And yes, I may have smirked at the Quote.

How about this one:
"One good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred priests."
- Thomas Paine "

Harry Potter wrote on Oct 22, 2009 5:14 PM:

" How about this one:
"One good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred priests."
- Thomas Paine "

Hey that makes sense to me, and I'll bet my little buddy NeoDoh would agree. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Oct 22, 2009 8:33 PM:

" " How about this one:
"One good schoolmaster is of more use than a hundred priests."
- Thomas Paine "

Hey that makes sense to me, and I'll bet my little buddy NeoDoh would agree. "
----------------------

Well..yeah... unless that schoolmaster was you, the retired Harry Potter from the public schools. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Oct 22, 2009 10:11 PM:

" Tpaine:

I'm gonna be as respectful as possible here...you say that you're not a liberal but your lack of logic, market understanding, and business sense here ASTOUNDS me...leading me to think that you are a liberal.

And let me get this right...you're saying because our labor is more expensive here we don't compete with states next door that have cheap labor, right?

That's what you just said. Okay, well if that's the case then this country's not losing any jobs to companies going overseas.

Well great, then all those industry bulletins I read on productivity, wages, wage concessions, efficiency, ROI, business climate, net present value, overseas markets and everything else are just full of crap...obviously like me, NeoCon fullocrap, right?

And because it's significantly cheaper there to make stuff, and they rely more on heavy manufacturing (even though Illinois is home to 2 of the largest heavy equipment manufacturers in the world CAT and John Deere, home to the two largest agri-industry in the world Tate & Lyle, and ADM) and the labor wage differential, and benefits/cost differential are skewed in their favor, we don't compete with them.

Got it.

I understand perfectly now.

You've so enlightened me.

Oh and by the way, it's not a matter of those states getting or not getting those manufacturing plants...those other states got those new plants.

Lafayette got Subaru/Toyota, Princeton IN and Georgetown Ky got Toyota manufacturing plants. Georgetown Ky is the corporate site for Toyota North America. Subaru, while all else have faltered over the last few months has gained market share through increased sales. Meanwhile plants in Missouri, Illinois (Saturn in Bloomington)(Ford in Chicago, and Michigan), Kokomo Chrysler is about done for...Chyrsler, Fenton Mo done for, Ford Chicago done for...well they're all done for. Do I need to go on?

As for the "conservative vs. liberal" thing my experiences working in both the public sector and the private sector, and in both unions and in management, have skewed me toward being conservative.

The private sector makes sense. Your company makes money or you go out of business...well unless like now you're the UAW, SEIU, or whatever union and then Obama keeps your company alive in a comatose state...not able to compete with your foreign competitors.

In the public sector, as I've been told by several higher up administrator types, it is all about the "relationships" and the "human" factor, what ever that is. It's never about serving the customer...the taxpayer.

And I'll say this about the public sector, if the general public knew how wasteful, inefficient, and poorly run government entities are run...well let's just say it would be a lynching by John Q Public on the public sector folks on a scale similar to the lynching of the Frankenstein monster.

And it's why I find such disgust in the posts by the 'estemmed' liberal cadre on here. I won't use their names but I'm sure you know who I'm talking about...they all work/worked in the public sector in government (universities, public schools, government funded defense contractors).

They have no idea what it's like in the private sector, trying to stay in business, keeping people in jobs, and have no respect for you in the private sector even though you're the one paying their salaries. They think it all grows on trees...cuz it does for them...from the folks that provided it to them from the private sector.

And I've seen how the unions work, up close and personal. They carry the dead weight, but if you excel...you get put down. Ohhh yeah...the unions are real "charitable", "christian" organizations.

But you know what Tom, you are right on all accounts, and I am wrong.

How's that? Raise taxes...and just watch...just watch...see how 'right' you are... "

Becky wrote on Oct 23, 2009 7:33 AM:

" T, the last few administrations to get to Springfield all said the same thing. "We must raise taxes, fees, licenses to get the books balanced." They did get the new "taxes" and they didn't balance any books. We are worse off now than ever I think. So, if they didn't do it before what makes you think they'll actually do it this time? You know the saying "Fool me once....." "

father bob wrote on Oct 23, 2009 9:29 AM:

" Tpaine wrote on Oct 21, 2009 9:05 PM:
"Academician? - are you really a full member of a scientific academy? Maybe it should be NeoCon fullofcrap. """""

THE POST OF THE WEEK!.......ROFLMAO!! "

idontknowwhattoput wrote on Oct 23, 2009 9:48 AM:

" NeoCon you very well forgot the almost brand new Honda plant in Greensburg, south of Indy. What I do not understand is how Indiana can receive all these new manufacturing plants and Illinois can't? Oh wait there taxes are lower, their government is ran smarter, and they are more efficient with their government. They just happen to have a Republican Governor and Senate, and I believe a slightly Democratic House, ironic, I think not. "

father bob wrote on Oct 23, 2009 11:20 AM:

" idontknowwhattoput wrote on Oct 23, 2009 9:48 AM:
" NeoCon you very well forgot the almost brand new Honda plant in Greensburg, south of Indy. What I do not understand is how Indiana can receive all these new manufacturing plants and Illinois can't? Oh wait there taxes are lower, their government is ran smarter, and they are more efficient with their government. They just happen to have a Republican Governor and Senate, and I believe a slightly Democratic House, ironic, I think not. """""

republican or democratically controlled has no bearing. it's all about taxes and incentives. illinois has run off more industry than any other state in the union just due to tax rates. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Oct 23, 2009 12:33 PM:

" brand new Honda plant in Greensburg, south of Indy.

---------
Thank you idontknowwhattoput...I stand corrected. Please excuse my omission. "

devilishangel61401 wrote on Oct 23, 2009 3:44 PM:

" Becky all of those programs you listed were things I never even knew about! Wow that sure is a lot of programs that are not needed! I too agree with you that I've heard once too often that "if we raise taxes we can fix things" Well our taxes have been raised time and again, and things are still broken. So I don't belive for a second raising taxes will make things better "

Tpaine wrote on Oct 24, 2009 12:52 PM:

" NeoCon:
You know what, maybe you're right, heck I don't know, I have never claimed to have all the answers. Fact of the matter is I don't exactly struggle and a raise in taxes wouldn't be very noticeable to me, I would probably have a different opinion if I was in a different situation. Ultimately, we don't exactly know what would work best. Reagan(who I was and am a fan of by the way) thought deregulation would work and Greenspan told us that was a big mistake, even though it seemed good for a while. I suppose what we need to avoid is being too convinced that one specific way is the way to go, because in the end we may have been wrong the whole time, I suppose we will find out. "