" Why would anyone now take responsibility for their actions?

We've got the government now for the cleaning up after us.

Drug addict? That's okay you get to go to rehab, then back on the streets.

Sex offender? That's okay you get to go to rehab, then back on the streets.

Tax cheat? That's okay. We'll give you a cabinet position.

Can't compete against foreign companies, run your company into the ground? You get a government bail out.

Cause the financial collapse of the country encouraging loans to people that can't afford them/shouldn't get them? We'll give you a advisor position.

Thank you Obama.

Can I have my hand-out now, Obama? "

" and your point would be? "

" Dave,

The bus company bears some responsibility, too. You say we shouldn't point fingers. Then you point fingers to excuse the negligence of a company that drove drunk kids under an overpass with only inches of clearance. I wouldn't call that responsible behavior. "

" So HeinekenMan, it must be Dwight D. Eisenhower's fault too, the Interstate bridges are to low, right? "

" Good letter Dave.


As far as the comments about the bus company and driver having responsibility in that tragedy I would want to know a few details like what was the clearance between the upper level floor and the top of the bus and well as what was the overall height of the bus.

What I am getting at is lets say the bus had a total clearance of 13'6, and the top deck was 6 foot from the floor to the roof line. That could be considered an adequate safety margin to go under that bridge, especially if in measuring and posting the height of the bridge the state included the 6 inch "ice" margin which most northern states do meaning the real clearance could be 6 inches greater than what is posted.

If on the other hand the floor to roof line was under 6 foot then yes, by all means, the bus driver/company can share in the responsibility of the accident. Even still, unless the person killed was sitting normally in their seat the "victim" of this tragedy still has the vast majority of responsibility for what happened to him. "

" NeoCon Academician :....

Let me understand this, you are blaming Obama for:

Drug Addicts, Sex Offenders,Tax Cheats,Company failures, the Housing Market That collapsed in 2007 ?

anything else? Maybe he is responsible for bad breath too!!....get a life. "

" Medic,

When a company chooses to conduct business that involves shuttling human beings from place to place, it is their responsibility to know the risks and take necessary precautions to avoid those risks.

Lots of people keep talking about the bus driver. He could be at fault, but remember that he was merely doing a job. It is mostly the company that directed him to do the job that is at fault here.

They either did not do their homework to identify potential risks or simply did not take the "necessary precautions" to avoid an accident.

In this case, the most agreed-upon precaution is communicating, through verbal or written means, the need for people to sit. It is still unclear, though, whether this was communicated to all of the passengers. Reports indicate that lots of people were standing and moving around the bus while it was in motion.

In my mind, there is no precaution that makes it safe to drive a bus under an overpass with such little clearance. The risk increases exponentially when people on the bus have been drinking and are tired at the end of a long day in the sun.

The "necessary precaution" in this case is simply to avoid the underpass.

I'm growing tired of reading about how this was a "tragic accident." Those individuals are trying to paint this as an unavoidable situation. That's simply not the case. It was completely avoidable.

Someone failed to address the risks in a manner that ensured the safety of the passengers. "

" anything else? Maybe he is responsible for bad breath too!!....get a life. "
-------

He probbably is since he smokes....eeewwww!

And by inference...you associated Obama with drug addiction and sex offense...

...well good for you...

I hadn't thought to associate your messiah like that...but I'm sure somehow Obama can be tied to those maladies in some capacity.

My point was that now you don't have to take responsibility for your actions because the government's there to pick-up after people's messes...and Obama's just exacerbated the problem with his policies...

Now go wipe your nose, Boy... "

" Since it's a privately owned bus company, OBVIOUSLY with greedy owners taking advantage of their customers, the company should shutter it's doors and go out of business...

The government can then provide local bus service...and when next time intoxicants stand up and kill themselves, the families can sue the government because it will be everybody's fault the intoxicants stood up in the bus...

Problem solved. "

" Yesterday as I sat in my "Diversity in Education" class, it became apparent that liberals have put folks of color and poverty into victimhood and they want to keep them there. Why? That's a 6 million dollar question isn't it. Whether they (my class) realize it or not, they answered the question, it's guilt. I simply don't understand why you would feel guilty for working hard and attaining your goals, but upon seeing a "poor black man", you suddenly feel ashamed and guilty about your good fortune. Feeling guilty and keeping the poor and downtrodden in victim-hood status is just plain stupid, counterproductive and the worse form of racism I can imagine. The counter point I get from liberals is"you just don't understand how hard they have it".

HHMM, I grew up on a farm, we didn't have much money and the work was hard. My Dad worked a second job to keep us in clothes and heating oil. My Dad worked hard, kept his head about him and ended up making himself a wealthy man; without farm subsidies. I never seen my Dad the first 10 years of my life, he was working every minute he could. So tell me why can't the black American work hard and pull himself out ot the hole? Could it be that he has played himself into the victim's role, blamed others for his problems, and is just plain lazy? I wonder. I can tell you one thing, I don't feel guilty about my success. My husband has worked his way up from being a construction gopher to construction manager. He doesn't feel guilty or ashamed either, nor does he blame his poor father for not giving him a college education or money to start his life with. Oh, but we are white...it's different for us. Maybe so, but NOT doing anything is going to make your life better? There is no arguement for ever being a victim. "

" NeoCon Academician

Do you want some cheese

with that Whine !! "

" Solution to ensure full compliance of responsibility and safety for all private and public transportation riders since people are unable to think for themselves:
"Con Air Security Measures"
Cost effective? It would have saved two lives in this case.
This is no more absurd than blaming the bus company, IDOT, the driver, and of course, a possible roaming deer. "

" Do you want some cheese

with that Whine !! "
--------------------------

Whoa...relax big fella...

I know it took a lot out of you to think of that retort... "

" My husband has worked his way up from being a construction gopher to construction manager.

This statement sort of negates the claim that some are being derogatory toward seedy for calling him a her. lol! "

" How can we expect young people to act responsibly when their parents don't? They do as we do. "

" Harry Potter wrote on Oct 20, 2009 8:32 PM:
" How can we expect young people to act responsibly when their parents don't? They do as we do. "

You hit the nail on the head my friend. It's like the saying goes, "Actions speak louder then words." "

" Cedric I think you need to learn about American history. You obviously don't seem to realize that there was a time not to long ago when a Black man could NOT buy land in many places in America even if he had the money. There was a time when a black man couldn't get a job even if he had a college degree or was a skilled craftsman in many places in America. There was a time when black men were forced to abandon their wives and children because their families couldn't live or go to school in the same communities where they worked. If the black man lost a job he would have to leave his family so the wife and kids could get welfare assistance to tide them over until he could find another job. There was a time when blacks doing the same work as whites got half the pay yet had to live in the same community with the same rent and home ownership costs, the same food and clothing costs as their coworkers. There was a time, what am I saying there are places today around the world where this is still happening. Public policies and private racism have created the inequities and efforts need to be made to right past wrongs. Universal health care is one way of leveling the playing field and removing one man made obstacle so that people can provide for themselves and their families. "

" Harry Potter wrote on Oct 20, 2009 8:22 PM:
" My husband has worked his way up from being a construction gopher to construction manager.

This statement sort of negates the claim that some are being derogatory toward seedy for calling him a her. lol! """"



a he/she.... "

" HeinekenMan wrote:
In this case, the most agreed-upon precaution is communicating, through verbal or written means, the need for people to sit. It is still unclear, though, whether this was communicated to all of the passengers. Reports indicate that lots of people were standing and moving around the bus while it was in motion.
~~
Are you telling me that these adults need to be told to sit? In a moving bus? With no roof? Come on, please. Really?? When you choose to drink to the point of impairment you can not expect other people to be responsible for you losing your common sense. You CHOOSE to take that risk. If you are old enough to drink then you are old enough to know that you are no longer in control of common sense and you could get hurt. ex: standing up on a bus with no roof! Did anyone else on the top of that bus see the risk in standing and tell them to sit down? Obviously they chose to get drunk. They chose to take that risk. I have said it before, using a double decker bus as a party bus is just a BAD idea. On both sides. Someone could have fallen out. Then who's fault would it have been? Say they were standing or climbing over the seats and fell over, would it still be the fault of the bus company? The kids chose to be reckless.
Your right, this was no tragic accident, it was caused from drinking to the point of impairment and not being aware of their surroundings. "

" cedric66 wrote on Oct 20, 2009 3:57 PM:
" Oh, but we are white...it's different for us."""""



funny how the only ones who ever say that are WASPs with a grudge against anyone who might not fit their same mold. "

" Harry Potter wrote on Oct 20, 2009 8:22 PM:
" My husband has worked his way up from being a construction gopher to construction manager.

This statement sort of negates the claim that some are being derogatory toward seedy for calling him a her. lol! """""



i think someone needs to spend more time baking cookies or putting up jelly, and less time watching fox. "

" The whole idea of it being anyone's fault but the kids who stood up in the bus when the rule was to stayu sitting is just insane. I suppose if your child falls out of the little train & breakes his leg at the Decatur Zoo, it would be the little train driver's fault, or the Zoo's fault? NOT! "

" Wow rather than this being a letter that is turning into a change of pace from the "let's point the fingers of blame about the bus incident/tragic accident" it becomes that all over again. I think we should give the bus story a rest and let the family grieve in peace and if there is to be a lawsuit let the trial take place and let the entire story come out.

How about using this letter to talk about how so many people seem to lack common sense? I cannot tell you how many times I have seen people in the parking lot at Walmart just walk across the lot to the door without looking for cars, or walking along talking away on their cell phones ratehr than paying attention to their surroundings. How many times have I seen people pull out of parking lots and driveways without realizing they have to yield the right of way to the traffic in the main lane that has the green light. How about how many people allow small children to run around sit down style or buffet style resturants as though they were in a park then want to blame the poor patron or waitstaff who accidently bumps into the toddler who is running about the place when said toddler gets hot food or hot coffee accidently spilled on them. How about the way that both sides of our political parties want to blame the other side rather then saying "hey we all made some poor choices, lets work toghter to fix things and make things better for everyone not only those in our own political party.

Cedric with all due respect I do feel that adding the "we're white so we're diffrent" was a bit uncalled for. Study after study has shown that poverty is a vicious cycle and one that is very difficult to get out of and it is five to ten times more harder for an African American, or a Latino American to get out of poverty then it is for anyone else to climb out of it, those statistics go up 5% if you're a minority woman. I learned that when I took a "diversity in education class" I've also learned it in: History, & Sociology 101. "

" shumphreys wrote Oct.21 8:21am:
"....There was a time when a black man couldn't get a job even if he had a college degree or was a skilled craftsman in many places in America. There was a time when black men were forced to abandon their wives and children because their families couldn't live or go to school in the same communities where they worked..."
Susan, if you replace "black" with "white" in the above exerpt, the time is NOW aka as TODAY. The use of the verb "force" seems a little dramatic, especially this implies a physical action as especially directed against black-Americans.
As for the abandoment of wives and children couldn't live or go to school in the same communities where they worked, again, replace "black" with "white", and the result is the same. This is called a "COMMUTE" if you are fortunate to HAVE a job! LOL!
What does all this have to do with personal responsibility, anyway?
Your quick American history synopsis is interesting, but so what? "

" Yeah Neo...
since I learned to sped red, I can sped red google now....it took 10 hours to come up with a come back....

but I have to say are a proverbial foe, but that's chronological speaking of course....:) Good Day !! "

" funny how the only ones who ever say that are WASPs with a grudge against anyone who might not fit their same mold. "



Once again, Father Bob proves just how much of a racist he is. "

" but I have to say are a proverbial foe, but that's chronological speaking of course....:) Good Day !! "
-----

En Ingls (English), por favor (please). Yo no te entiendo!

LOL! "

" GrandpaC I was responding to Cedrics post. If you can't follow the discussion perhaps you shouldn't comment it makes you look foolish. "

" Oh GrandpaC and what does it have to do with "personal responsibility"? Good question but Cedric brought it up. But I will add that sometimes society works against people with written and unwritten laws that perpetuate and create problems rather than helping to alleviate problems. AND your flippant comment about "Commute" was racist by the way since the reason for many commutes was white flight from innercity neighborhoods to all white subburbs. That was a personal choice not something forced upon someone by others. If you can't see the difference than you are a pretty messed up individual. "

" Cedric I think you need to learn about American history. You obviously don't seem to realize that there was a time not to long ago when a Black man could NOT buy land in many places in America even if he had the money. There was a time when a black man couldn't get a job even if he had a college degree or was a skilled craftsman in many places in America. There was a time when black men were forced to abandon their wives and children because their families couldn't live or go to school in the same communities where they worked.

And now, They give him a loan when he has bad credit, Now, they give him a job with no education or skills and now, he abandons his children of his own volition. Nothing has changed, just can't blame whitey anymore. "

" medic57 wrote on Oct 21, 2009 3:58 PM:
" funny how the only ones who ever say that are WASPs with a grudge against anyone who might not fit their same mold. "
Once again, Father Bob proves just how much of a racist he is.""""


stating fact. and if the shoe fits.... "

" acidburn wrote on Oct 22, 2009 8:36 AM:
" Nothing has changed, just can't blame whitey anymore. """""


more proof of the uneducated redneck hub of the uncivilized. "

" shumpreys:
Please relax. I'm senile and forgot to take my medicine yesterday. Sorry.
Where'd ya get that I'm a racist from what I related to?
You & FB do paint ONLY two colors. BLACK & WHITE.
And what are these "unwritten laws'? If they are unwritten, by whose standards? Yours & FB's? Better stick to your looking out for others crusade. "

" Acidburn what is your excuse for turning out the way you have? You know what is amazing is that some people despite the odds stacked against them turn out to be such responsible, productive, compassionate members of society and some people despite having every advantage from birth don't. "

" GrampaC wrote on Oct 22, 2009 1:55 PM:
"And what are these "unwritten laws'? If they are unwritten, by whose standards? Yours & FB's? Better stick to your looking out for others crusade. """""


seems like you can't get past the racial innuendo there gramps. "

" Looks like bigotry is alive and well in east central Illinois. Some just do a better job of hiding theirs, but the election of the first African American has brought it to the surface. The recent actions by the neocons seem to confirm just hove embedded it really is in our society. Hopefully some day our children will truly judge people by the content of their character and not their skin color. "

" Harry Potter wrote on Oct 22, 2009 7:44 PM:
" Looks like bigotry is alive and well in east central Illinois. Some just do a better job of hiding theirs, but the election of the first African American has brought it to the surface. The recent actions by the neocons seem to confirm just hove embedded it really is in our society. Hopefully some day our children will truly judge people by the content of their character and not their skin color. "

Though I do not agree with you on everything you said Harry I do agree with you saying, "Hopefully some day our children will truly judge people by the content of their character and not their skin color." Some would say I am racist because I will not call President Obama, "African American". Although it is true since his father is African and his mother American. He is an American, just as me and you. I believe when we start putting extra labels that is when we start putting up barriers and separating ourselves from one another. Their should not be African-Americans, Asian-Americans, Spanish-Americans, or etc.. we are all Americans, Red, White, and Blue! "

" GrandpaC those unwritten laws were ones that kept white realtors from selling to black couples and kept white employers from hiring black workers. Then there were signs posted all over the place that kept blacks out or prevented them from drinking at water fountains and using some restrooms. They weren't in the legal code books but they were there and strictly enforced. Oh did you know that Oakland was a Sundown town? Do you know what that means? I am not sure about Charleston and Mattoon but Effingham was one. "

" jrhendren wrote:
Though I do not agree with you on everything you said Harry I do agree with you saying, "Hopefully some day our children will truly judge people by the content of their character and not their skin color." Some would say I am racist because I will not call President Obama, "African American". Although it is true since his father is African and his mother American. He is an American, just as me and you. I believe when we start putting extra labels that is when we start putting up barriers and separating ourselves from one another. Their should not be African-Americans, Asian-Americans, Spanish-Americans, or etc.. we are all Americans, Red, White, and Blue! "


Yay! someone that finally understands what I am saying. If you were born in America, you are American. Period. Not African American, not Asian American. Its time to let the heritage go in how people describe themselves. Good grief. I would be an "American-Indian/Irish-American/German- American". And I'm afraid to know what my ancestors did for a living, but I bet it wasn't glamorous! There are no special clubs or college funds for who I am or where my ancestors came from. There are no channels on TV for me. I guess I could blame any mistakes I have ever made on the German heritage. But I doubt there is much left of that. Well, I guess 1/8th. Nope nothing special about me, I'm just a plain old AMERICAN!! And personally, I don't care what someone looks like, just what kind of job they are doing. And what kind of person they are. That is the most important thing to me. Every race has the same kind of people. Good and Bad. Hard working and Lazy. Smart and Stupid....Responsible and irresponsible. Like mom said, its whats on the inside that counts. "

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 23, 2009 8:15 AM:
" GrandpaC those unwritten laws were ones that kept white realtors from selling to black couples and kept white employers from hiring black workers. Then there were signs posted all over the place that kept blacks out or prevented them from drinking at water fountains and using some restrooms. They weren't in the legal code books but they were there and strictly enforced. Oh did you know that Oakland was a Sundown town? Do you know what that means? I am not sure about Charleston and Mattoon but Effingham was one. "

What she forgets to mention is that it was Southern Democrats that came up with these laws. "

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 21, 2009 8:21 AM:

" Cedric I think you need to learn about American history. You obviously don't seem to realize that there was a time not to long ago when a Black man could NOT buy land in many places in America even if he had the money. There was a time when a black man couldn't get a job even if he had a college degree or was a skilled craftsman in many places in America. There was a time when black men were forced to abandon their wives and children because their families couldn't live or go to school in the same communities where they worked.

And now! They get whether they deserve it or not. "

" slap63 wrote on Oct 27, 2009 10:47 PM:
"Yay! someone that finally understands what I am saying. If you were born in America, you are American. """""



well slaphappy...we should all be treated the same then...right??? "