" Why should medicare pay for it all when you have health insurance? Normally your health insurance pays first then the secondary kicks in. "

" I sure would like to see this bill you say Medicare only paid $275 for out of $59,600 Mr. Bopp.

I realize they don't pay for everything but unless the procedure wasn't authorized, they normally pay a lot more than what you describe. Usually 80% of what THEY consider is billable.

In other words, if your are billed $100 for a doctors visit, Medicare might think that visit is only worth $90, so they will pay $72. "

" My question for you, Jim, is are you still working but turned 65? If so, Medicare is not your primary but your secondary insurance. One way to look at your payments is that Medicare paid $275 more than your primary did. If you have questions, look at your Explanation of Benefits or call the Life Center and ask to be referred to a SHIP (Senior Health Insurance Program) counselor. I used to be one. There is no charge. "

" Im all for a public option of insurance that pays at least 90% of everything and is easy to understand. No big legaleese terms just simple concise language. Everything in layman's terms. "

" Hey, nothing about Obama's secret death panels? Come on now, you guys are slipping. "

" Small business owners and workers left to the mercy of a merciless, profit-before-people health unsurance non-system have NO realible coverage options NOW. Unless our government decides to offer us one, we will continue to have none. That means we will continue to become unnecessarily disabled, bankrupted, terrorized and DEAD in numbers Al Qaeda can only pray to achieve. "

" The irony of a government employee (whose health insurance is paid for using our tax dollars), arguing that we should not have access to the same health coverage as he does (at the same price)....is just too much. "

" Not true. As a state employee eligible for Medicare, Medicare is your primary, any other insurance you might have is secondary. I would guess that Mr. Bopp who states that Medicare is his "now primary insurer" knows exactly what he's talking about. "

" Sorry, I read JEF's post a little too hastily. He's right, if Mr. Bopp is still employed and Medicare eligible, then his insurance through work pays first, Medicare second. However, if he is Medicare eligible and retired, Medicare pays first, then his Health Alliance coverage is the secondary insurance. "

" I would suggest anyone who is eligible for Medicare and still working full time, contact your employers insurance contact person so you can verify that Medicare is secondary and your insurance is primary.

I can assure you, my father who just retired at age 88 was required to switch from his city insurance being primary to Medicare being primary. It has been no easy task in switching. Medicare has a contract with a company which handles changing this information in the Medicare system and some of their representatives are less than customer friendly and helpful.

Sarah Bush Lincoln Hospital and Family Practice billing offices have been very helpful and cooperative in trying to work with him and Medicare to realize they are now primary since he retired.

If you have any questions, please contact your employers insurance representative or Medicare. "

" Sorry, I read JEF's post a little too hastily.

I believe the appropriate term for this is a knee jerk reaction, RWB. lol! "

" I would suggest anyone who is eligible for Medicare and still working full time, contact your employers insurance contact person so you can verify that Medicare is secondary and your insurance is primary.

Unless things have changed, Steve, the determining factor is how many employees an employer has. It used to be that if the employer has over a 100 on their payroll, SS is the primary payer, and conversely if they have less than 100 the insurance company involved is the primary payer. This can be tricky if your employer has a fluctuating number of employees. "

" I know someone down the road who had the same health problems and it came out to about the same size bill. Except, he didn't have any insurance because he's been laid off for a long time and can't find work. So he/they now owe about $70,000 and will probably loose everything they've worked so hard for the last 30 years due to one hospital stay. So, Mr. Bopp, since you don't have this problem because you had not only 1, but 2 ways of being insured, I guess their tragedy is not important enough to be concerned about. All this claptrap about health reform will do nothing but mess things up even more. The ONLY real answer to our health care problems is UNIVERSAL coverage. "

" My Father worked to the age of 74, his employer insurance was Blue Cross/Blue Sheild. He did not even sign up for Medicare until he retired.

I don't know if he could have or not, prior to retiring, but there was no need to until he retired according to him..... "

" I went to a Doctor in 2004, and asked her (yes a woman) to be my primary care provider, I told her I didn't have insurance. She said we will work it out. She charges me $35 a visit, more if I get blood work, or a flu shot, but always $35 bucks otherwise. That is a godsend, I am very fortunate.

But what I want, and need is "Catastrophic Health Insurance". I don't mind paying out of pocket for colds, and Flu..etc....But what if I need a Bypass?...or an appendix removed?....that is where I will go broke.

Most folks would agree, it's the big one that will break you, not the little office calls. Why can't we just buy that kind of insurance, for the major things that may arise? "

" When Sarah Palin gave her wonderful convention speech, Obama's democratic, thug operatives immediately dog-piled on her. When Joe the plumber spoke his mind, he too suffered the anger of of Obama's radicals.

When the two young people went under cover to expose ACORN for the corrupt and criminal organization it is, they too are now being sued by ACORN thug radicals, (at Obama's behest) for millions of dollars.

Can you imagine a 22-year old college girl being sued for twenty million dollars. The ACORN radicals know they will never see the money. They are just sending a message to all the other young people out there, that are looking for the truth, that you don't mess with crime bosses. They will get you.

Now, however, Obama and his arrogant, bully thugs have picked on the wrong kid. (FOX NEWS Network) This kid pushes back. Obama needs to be Verwy Verwy Careful with the FOX network or his A*@ is liable to be polishing the lawn while he is wondering what hit him.

FOX NEWS has millions upon millions of dedicated viewers who will stand with FOX and the truth. Those millions will also vote in 2010.

You be careful out there, Mr. President. "

" Reference post by Harry Potter regarding when Medicare is secondary when a person is working.

Mr. Potter, your post resulted in my trying to do some research on this topic via the Internet. I was not very successful. I believe your general point is correct based on my limited research, if a persons full time employer has fewer than a certain number of employees, you believed 100, Medicare would be primary payer and their insurance secondary.

I located information for 2005 and the number of employees was 20, but it certainly could have been increased to 100 by now.

In doing the research, I learned there are a number of situations in which Medicare may become the secondary payer in addition to those who work beyond age 65. These situations do not lend themselves to explaining them via this comment board.

I would refer to my original post that I encouraged those who are still working beyond age 65 to contact their employers insurance representative or Medicare to determine their specific situation. Please do not take my information as applying to everyone.

Thanks Mr. Potter, your post got me to learn some things I did not know and corrected a perception I had that all those working beyond 65 had Medicare as secondary payer for their medical bills.

Reference post by Becky regarding the person with medical bills at about $70,000. This situation is why we do need health care reform but not all the provisions that Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid want in the bill. I would encourage your friend to try and negotiate with the medical providers, some will consider reducing their charges and some probably will not. I understand medical bills are one the primary reasons for bankruptcy in our country. This is not acceptable in my opinion for a country as great as we are.

I support a health care bill, but not one of the 5 currently being proposed in Congress. The lobbyist still control what is in these 5 bills. But one of the 5 with some modifications will probably pass and it will be better than what we have now.

I believe everyone should be able to get afordable health care coverage regardless of whether they have any pre existing medical issues. "

" The Dems have the majority, so they should do the same thing the Pubs did when they were in power, push the public option through and let the chips fall where they may. They are never going to get any support from the party of NO, so they should quit trying. "

" Harry Potter wrote on Oct 19, 2009 7:44 PM:
" The Dems have the majority, so they should do the same thing the Pubs did when they were in power, push the public option through and let the chips fall where they may. They are never going to get any support from the party of NO, so they should quit trying. "
------------
Seems like almost everything they did under Clinton he signed.

Bush only had about two years of a majority so. . . .

HP, can you give a few examples of what exactly did the Repub-a-clowns ram through?

Or are you just off in la-la land again. "

" Harry Potter wrote on Oct 19, 2009 7:44 PM:

" The Dems have the majority, so they should do the same thing the Pubs did when they were in power, push the public option through and let the chips fall where they may. They are never going to get any support from the party of NO, so they should quit trying. """"""



praise be to allah!! "

" Becky wrote on Oct 19, 2009 2:28 PM:
"All this claptrap about health reform will do nothing but mess things up even more."


GOD BLESS AMERICA!! "

" Becky,

My husband and I are very concerned about the number of people who do not have adequate health coverage and find themselves in horrible situations. My heart aches for them.

We are very grateful to have 2 sources of insurance. The point, however, is that the government option will not provide adequate coverage for anyone. If a government option were available, most small employers would opt for that and the level of coverage for everyone would be the absolute minimum. I don't know what the answer is. I would urge everyone to read the proposals, inform themselves and act accordingly. Our elected representatives have to know the needs and wants of their constituents. If those officials were required to receive the same coverage they propose, I would be more willing to accept such an option.

Carol Bopp "

" Unless health insurance company cost increases are restrained by a public option or universal health care, there will BE NO health care for vast numbers in America, and even vaster numbers will be bankrupted by the "health care" they get. The greed-crazed "greatest health care system in the world" is tottering on the verge of collapse, and that's obvious to anyone who is willing to look. "

" Senate Finance Committee members have been notified that the committee's health reform bill was filed today.

S. 1796 weighs in at 1,502 pages.

Link to document:

http://finance.senate.gov/press/Bpress/2009press/prb101909.pdf

Brother, the last one was big but this one is bigger and just as hard to try to understand.

Remember there are four others that somehow are supposed to be miss mashed together into one bill so who has a clew what the final outcome will be. "

" CNN) After his words attracted national attention and drew condemnation from a Jewish state senator, a South Carolina Republican official is now apologizing for co-writing a newspaper op-ed that described Jews as penny-pinchers.

I'll bet he's a birther too. lol! "

" Obama and the Dems have bought off everybody else, why not the docs? The only problem here is, unlike most of the people that the Dems keep indebted to them with payoffs of one kind or another, doctors are intelligent. It'll be interesting to see it they take the bribe.

Notice that Obama doesn't offer doctors the ultimate deal that might bring them on board with healthcare. Tort reform.
__________________ "

" The Shadow wrote on Oct 19, 2009 11:19 PM:
GOD BLESS AMERICA!! """""



if allah allows....praise be to allah! "

" Re: my primary insurer, I've got a lot of papers saying medicare is in fact my primary insurer. The main job of all elected officials is getting reelected. Obama just had a dem fundraiser on Wall Street tonight. A government option on health insurance will be written by lobyists, and voted on by senators and representatives who haven't read or understood the whole thing. These are the same officials talking about the hundreds of millions of dollars in medicare fraud, which they've done nothing to fix. Now if the option mandated that all elected officals had to give up what they have, and switch to the gov't option, it might be worth having.

jim bopp "

" " Obama and the Dems have bought off everybody else, why not the docs? The only problem here is, unlike most of the people that the Dems keep indebted to them with payoffs of one kind or another, doctors are intelligent. It'll be interesting to see it they take the bribe.


The last I heard, over 70 percent of the doctors, and almost every major medical association is behind health care reform. So do you think he bought them off too, seedy? lol! "

" Harry Potter wrote on Oct 20, 2009 8:15 PM:
The last I heard, over 70 percent of the doctors, and almost every major medical association is behind health care reform. So do you think he bought them off too, seedy? lol! "

----------

Yo, HP can one ask where you heard this interesting little tidbit or is it like so many of your other little droppings where you heard or saw something that you couldnt support?

By the way, had a chance to visit the 1502 page senate finance committee health care bill yet?

No wonder the dummy-crats dont bother to read what the lobbyist put together before they vote on it, who has a clew what it says. "

" Harry Potter wrote on Oct 20, 2009 8:15 PM:
"The last I heard, over 70 percent of the doctors, and almost every major medical association is behind health care reform. So do you think he bought them off too, seedy? lol! """""'



HP....you know those godless muslims have all that oil money backing them.

did you see they were caught red handed infiltrating congress and conspiring to overthrow the government??....WHAT NEXT???....AAAHHHHHHHGGGGGGGHH!!!!!! "

" According to the Wall Street Journal, support for a public option is gaining.

It must be true, after all it was reported by a Murdoch owned paper. lol! "

" Becky: You are a decent person with real concerns and I respect you for that. The problem, as I see it, is that the universal health care public option plan will do more harm than good. If the problem is that doctors have to charge large fees because their malpractice insurance premiums cost $100,000 or more then give us tort reform. Congress won't do that because most of them are lawyers and the lawyer lobby gives them so much campaign money. If the problem is that insurance companies don't accept preconditions change the law so they have to. Open up insurance competition across state lines. Correct the things that need to be corrected, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Adding millions upon millions of new people into a government system will be catastrophic to the government's finances (as if it isn't already). There will be fewer doctors because many have said that they will change professions rather than work under that system. Therefore, the only way for a government system to cope will be to ration healthcare. We seniors, especially those of us with health issues, don't want to see this program because to us it will be a death sentence. As President Reagan said, the scariest words one can hear is, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help". Let's let free enterprise work, but correct what needs to be corrected. Trashing the whole system is not the way to do it. "

" Good examples of liberals telling the truth:

Congressman John Dingell (D-MI) on Cap-and-Trade:

"Nobody in this country realizes that cap and trade is a tax, and it's a great big one."

Howard Dean on why there's no tort reform in health-care reform proposals:

"Here is why tort reform is not in the bill. When you go to pass a really enormous bill like that the more stuff you put in, the more enemies you make, right? And the reason why tort reform is not in the bill is because the people who wrote it did not want to take on the trial lawyers in addition to everybody else they were taking on, and that is the plain and simple truth. Now, that's the truth."

Harry Reid (D-NV) on the real cost of Max Baucus's (D-MT) concept of a health-care reform bill:

"He talked about CBO saying that there would be $54 billion saved each year if we put caps on medical malpractice and put some restrictions - tort reform - $54 billion. Sounds like a lot of money, doesn't it, Mr. President? The answer is yes. But remember, we're talking about $2 trillion, $54 billion compared to $2 trillion. You can do the math. We can all do the math. It's a very small percent."

Vice President Joe Biden on the real state of the U.S. economy:

"My grandpop used to say -- there was a suburb of Scranton called Minooka. He said, When the guy in Minooka's out of work, it's an economic slowdown. When your brother- in-law's out of work, it's a recession. When you're out of work, it's a depression. Well, it's a depression -- it's a depression for millions of Americans, through no fault of their own." "

" Nation of Islam leader Louis Farrakhan said the H1N1 flu vaccine was developed to kill people, UPI reported.
Fox news-

The right has Glenn Beck and the left is stuck with Farrakhan. Sounds like both sides have their share of loonies. "

" Sapient the US has let "free enterprise" work and that is why our health care system is in the mess it is in now. Letting the insurers do what they think is best is why our US health care system is ranked lower in quality of care yet higher in cost of care than many other countries. Allowing the current system to continue will cause YOU to lose what little you have in the long run. I don't know how much longer you have to go but you had better hope that YOU don't outlive medicare and medicade. "

" Susan: Where did I suggest letting the insurers do what they think is best? I said to correct what needs to be corrected. I had great medical insurance before I went on Medicare. And no one GAVE it to me. "

" IT'S NOT ABOUT HEALTHCARE--IT'S ABOUT CONTROL. "

" It's not about "control," Sappy boy. It's about the imminent collapse of the U.S. health care system. Its cost increases are unsustainable. "

" Talk about not telling the truth, anyone remember the Bush/Cheney lie about WMD's. How many people lost their lives over that whopper? "

" " Talk about not telling the truth, anyone remember the Bush/Cheney lie about WMD's. How many people lost their lives over that whopper? "
------------

Yeppers!

'At 'uns a keeper. It's got Bush/Cheney and WMD's...look fur it in the paper tomorrow morning. "

" Harry Potter wrote on Oct 21, 2009 6:10 PM:
" Talk about not telling the truth, anyone remember the Bush/Cheney lie about WMD's. How many people lost their lives over that whopper? "

Except once again weapons were found, and the lies would have had to come from countries such as Britain, and former President Clinton. Since that was were the intelligence came from. What a genius Bush and Cheney were to be able to trick, a former President, several foreign countries, and out own Congress, and you all say they were stupid. "

" Even BUSH admitted no WMD were found, jr. And the head of the British Secret Service reported that the justifications for the war were being tricked up by the Bush administration to suit the predetermined policy of invasion.
Give up your pathetic BS, jr. It's over. History knows the truth. "

" Sapient you said "lets let free enterprise work......" I just pointed out that "free enterprise" is what got us into this mess. Letting "free enterprise" correct its mess isn't going to solve the problems. I don't care where YOU got your insurance that isn't the issue here. The issue is whether medicare and medicade will be around when you need it if you are lucky enough to live a long life. If the health care system isn't "corrected"/changed/fixed/
rethought it won't be. You don't let the fox decide what sort of locks and latches should be put on the henhouse. "

" Correction,jr. I never said Cheney was stupid. To the contrary, he's a pretty clever guy. I'm sure I said Bush was though. Cheney was smart enough to figure how to get rich by steering his boss into a war that would bring him all kinds of wealth. He was a lot smarter than one of his predecessors, Spiro Agnew. Spiro got his payoffs in envelopes stuffed full of cash delivered to the White house. Remember that sad event in history? Cheney weaseled himself into the VP position by eliminating any other potential candidates, a decision that Bush no doubt regrets. Cheney got his payoff in the US mail in the form of stock options statements, all nice and legal.

By the way, Bush has publicly acknowledged he was wrong on the WMD issue. Only radical right wing zealots are still holding out on the WMD claims. Even the honorable Colin Powell has gone public with his apologies for reporting false information on WMD's to the UN.

And just like he let his fellow Americans fight for him in VietNam, he's now using his own daughter to fight for him in the public arena.

Cheney wasn't even man enough to come forward until a day later when he shot his lawyer buddy in the face a while back. But I would imagine he was waiting to allow time for the booze to wear off before coming forward.

But of course the right wingers are silent on one issue with Cheney and his vituperous daughter Liz, and that is their strong belief in gay marriage. Why are the right wingers so silent on that issue, when it comes to the Cheney's? "

" The Question wrote on Oct 21, 2009 5:53 PM:
" It's not about "control," Sappy boy. It's about the imminent collapse of the U.S. health care system. Its cost increases are unsustainable. """""


that's exactly right TQ. if employers get another 20-30% increase every renewal, they nor their employees will be able to afford the premiums, and they've already told us rates were going to increase again.

the insureance industry will be out of business "

" The Question wrote on Oct 21, 2009 5:53 PM:
" It's not about "control," Sappy boy. It's about the imminent collapse of the U.S. health care system. Its cost increases are unsustainable. """""


that's exactly right TQ. if employers get another 20-30% increase every renewal, they nor their employees will be able to afford the premiums, and they've already told us rates were going to increase again.

the health care industry is like wall street. they want returns for their investors and executives and to he11 with you or i. "

" Yeppers!

'At 'uns a keeper. It's got Bush/Cheney and WMD's...look fur it in the paper tomorrow morning. "

Relax Neo, I've come up with a brilliant plan to get you name in the paper.

I'll just start mentioning your name in all my posts, that is one way way to get you what you so desperately want. But there is one catch, you have to quit crying about it once you see your name in print, and only the name Neo counts, none of your other postings names count. Now that's a deal, huh? "

" sapient wrote on Oct 21, 2009 4:19 PM:
" IT'S NOT ABOUT HEALTHCARE--IT'S ABOUT CONTROL. """""



ROFLMAO!.....hide your guns and bibles! they want to give you good health care, what what are they thinking? "

" i can't wait to get on medicare...what a great deal! if i were offered it as a public option i'd jump at the chance as would most americans. "

" Harry Potter wrote on Oct 22, 2009 9:38 AM:
"But there is one catch, you have to quit crying about it once you see your name in print, and only the name Neo counts, none of your other postings names count. Now that's a deal, huh? """""



i can see it now: Neonut, speeding, ISP, 75 in a 35 zone. "

" I'll just start mentioning your name in all my posts, that is one way way to get you what you so desperately want. But there is one catch, you have to quit crying about it once you see your
-----------

WHAT A FRIEND HARRY (on the government dole) POTTER IS TO ME!!! GOLLY GEE!

But you know Potter...that that's not my prerogative.

My only goal is to knock off the established order, your liberal cadre, that gets such ready print access!

You know that, my friend!

You liberal types get to go unchallenged spouting off your "un-truths" over and over again, as it appears in print...just like in the old days before bloggers challenged them big ol' newspapers...and as Fox challenges the established 'News' channels...and all sudden your "un-truths" get to be 'gospel truth'.

Boy...it just dawned on me...I'm gonna have to re-think that whole concept of 'liberal'...seems to me you all would want to hear alternative views...(gasp) MAYBE YOU GUYS ARE THE CONSERVATIVES!

Golly durn...it's almost like the issue "the messiah" has now with Fox News.

Since'n yur gonna do it...make sure you spell my moniker correctly...none of the that abbreviated stuff...

'ere it is..

N-e-o C-o-n A-c-a-d-e-m-i-c-i-a-n. "

" Ah, we have another "iffer." It's fun to assert things that can't be disproved.

I hear that Health Alliance would not cover it if I needed surgery to stop monkeys from flying out of my butt.

It must be rough to be worried about "which" insurance your company offers. The bankruptcy lines are filled with people who have no coverage. "

" Blacks MUST Have Democrat Label to Know How to Vote

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry, I disagree. Most young college graduates (22-25 age group) Have been so thoroughly inculcated with Socialist/Communist dogma that in most cases it will take years for them to realize that those systems of government are phony lies and never work. (many never will)

In most of the major colleges and universities, radical liberal professors outnumber conservative professors by about ten to one. This is especially true within the humanities.

We now have two full generations (starting with the 60s generation) that fully believe in the nanny state. These college grads have been taught by their Socialist professors that if you have a problem, it is always someone elses fault.

If you don't make good grades in school, it's the teachers fault. If you didn't take the right classes to fuffill college requirements, it's the system's fault. If you can't make a lot of money, it's the the dirty corporate capitalists fault. It is always someone else that should take responsibility for YOUR actions. It is the Socialist way of life.

I call these generations the "gimme gimme" people. Can't afford to buy a house, the nanny state will provide you with one. (sub prime loans) Can't or won't pay back your student loans, not to worry, the nanny state will forgive your loans etc. etc. ad nausium.

These dunderheads are the same group that ran slobbering to the polls to vote for Obama, most likely getting him elected.

Becoming a responsible adult requires more than a college education and having a family. It requires the parents of these graduates to have instilled proper values and a work ethic when they were little kids.

Telling black people in a small town municipal election, that they can only vote Democrat is but another example of the Socialist nanny state telling you what is good for you. "

" sammy wrote on Oct 22, 2009 1:07 PM:
" Blacks MUST Have Democrat Label to Know How to Vote"""""


i'm not going to scroll up to see who said that originally, but that's quite a load of crap. however, i will say there's been fewer and fewer blacks to vote republican just as there has been fewer and fewer whites to vote republican. the only republicans left are those to the far right...the bible thumping extremists. "

" It's a known fact that most people like Neopolitan ice cream. (pardon the spelling, Vanatta) lol! "

" father bob wrote on Oct 22, 2009 9:47 AM:
" sapient wrote on Oct 21, 2009 4:19 PM:
" IT'S NOT ABOUT HEALTHCARE--IT'S ABOUT CONTROL. """""

ROFLMAO!.....hide your guns and bibles! they want to give you good health care, what what are they thinking? "
---------------
And your proof of Good Health Care is?
So far all we have is:

*The failed abomination of a house bill that you so eloquently said quote- he whomever cites HR3200 is an ignorant dolt... here's a news flash for you. that's a dead horse. End quote

The just published 1502 page senate finance committee health care bill that nobody has read yet

* One of the four or five others that are running around the house and senate

* A speech by the president who didnt have time (due to his busy schedule) to bother to write up anything for them to start on.

Add to that mess the process of the Dummy-crat leaderships plan to re-due it all in conference and nobody has a clue what in the world the final bill will be or do for anyone.

Like always let your ideological prejudice outruns any good sense you might have. "

" The Question wrote on Oct 22, 2009 6:34 AM:
" Even BUSH admitted no WMD were found, jr. And the head of the British Secret Service reported that the justifications for the war were being tricked up by the Bush administration to suit the predetermined policy of invasion.
Give up your pathetic BS, jr. It's over. History knows the truth.

That is right history knows the truth to bad you guys keep trying to rewrite it. I have shown you over and over that weapons were found. That former President Clinton believed their were weapons, and enriched Uranium. The intelligence was from British intelligence and the former President. Their have been Al-Quida training camps found. There were weapons that were illegal under U.N. sanctions. Not to mention the torture and rape rooms Hussain had. I still love it how you all say he tricked the world, but was an idiot. You want your cake and want to eat it too. You can only have one or the other. Either the man was a genius to be able to trick foreign nations to going to war with him, Congress to pay for the war more then once, and a former President to agree, or stupid. Of course if you say he was stupid that would still make him right about Iraq. Come on Question get your head out of the sand. The world really does know the truth it's okay. No one will hold it against you. Oh and remember history also knows which president falsely attacked and aspirin factory in a country we had no U.N. sanctions against, just about the time of his impeachment. History also knows which president was offered Bin Laden, but turned it down. Sorry once again facts and real history does not lie. "

" Hey Neo, I managed to get your name in the paper. I'm sure you saw that as well as the other insightful comments they published from the brilliant father bob and The Question. Thanks are not necessary old buddy. You keep trying and maybe one day you will make it on your own, although I rather doubt it. Maybe you should use one of your other names and actually post something that differs from your boring broken record style messages about how bad the president is. "

" Bps wrote on Oct 22, 2009 7:17 PM:
"*The failed abomination of a house bill that you so eloquently said quote- he whomever cites HR3200 is an ignorant dolt... here's a news flash for you. that's a dead horse. End quote""""



thanks....HR3200 is dead. the bill they are looking at is the one coming from the finance committee with some amendments.

thanks for reminding us how right i was!! "

" In a press conference in August 2006, when questioned, President Bush admitted that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction and had "nothing" to do with 9/11. End of story.
The United States invaded and occupied a nation that never attacked or threatened this country at a taxpayer cost of trillions, slaughtering hundreds of thousands of its people and getting thousands of U.S. troops killed, using only lies as justification.
The truth certainly hurts, doesn't it? Too bad you right-wing warmongers weren't interested in truth in 2003. And youre still not interested.
By invading a nation based on lies, Bush became a mass murderer. Of course, Bush also eagerly became a torturer. And you, jr, are his cheerleader. "

" Tort reform was done in Texas already and it hasn't lowered doctor bills or premiums down there. In theory it's a good idea but in reality the insurance companies just rake in more with it. "

" " In a press conference in August 2006, when questioned, President Bush admitted that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction and had "nothing" to do with 9/11. End of story.
----------

*Yawn* "

" " Hey Neo, I managed to get your name in the paper.
------------------

Well thanks Harry, BBBUUUUUDDDDDYYYYY!

Sorry though...didn't get read it...anymore it goes right into the litter box. "

" Obama Meets With Keith Olbermann and Rachel Maddow

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THEY truly deserve each other, but can you imagine the stink in the room with all that exposed garbage???? LOL
Now, MSNBC will only be MORE INSUFFERABLE!!
Doesn't OBummer understand anything as simple as this??
Run for cover, folks, Lefty-loons on the loose! "

" The Question wrote on Oct 23, 2009 11:40 AM:
" In a press conference in August 2006, when questioned, President Bush admitted that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction and had "nothing" to do with 9/11. End of story.


Your right they had nothing to do directly with those that did the 9/11 attacks. That is not the same as they are not involved in Al Quida training. Keep the twisting going. Then the WMD
that have been found:

"Weapons of Mass Destruction HAVE been found in Iraq:

1.77 metric tons of enriched uranium

1,500 gallons of chemical weapons agents

17 chemical warheads containing cyclosarin (a nerve agent five times more deadly than sarin gas)

Over 1,000 radioactive materials in powdered form meant for dispersal over populated areas

Roadside bombs loaded with mustard and "conventional" sarin gas, assembled in binary chemical projectiles for maximum potency" - AP June 13, 2008

"An artillery shell containing the nerve agent sarin exploded near a U.S. military convoy in Baghdad..." - Washington Post

Both reports after 2006. Those darn facts keep getting in the way. Oh wait that's right facts don't matter to you.

Then you have the former President also believing them to have WMD's.

"Transcript: President Clinton explains Iraq strike

CLINTON: "Good evening.

Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq. They are joined by British forces. Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors.

Their purpose is to protect the national interest of the United States, and indeed the interests of people throughout the Middle East and around the world."" - Former President Clinton, CNN, Wednesday, December 16, 1998
________________________________________

The United States invaded and occupied a nation that never attacked or threatened this country at a taxpayer cost of trillions, slaughtering hundreds of thousands of its people and getting thousands of U.S. troops killed, using only lies as justification. The truth certainly hurts, doesn't it?


Maybe we should have attacked an aspirin factory and killed innocent workers in Africa. Oh wait that was already done by President Clinton. Which is it? Is Bush a genius for being able to trick all the foreign countries that went with us, trick our Congress more then once, and a former President? Or is he as stupid as you say he is, which would mean he believed the foreign intelligence, and the former President, also making Congress just as stupid for seeing the same intelligence and believing it? Clinton seemed to think it was worth attacking them before for our security, "Their purpose is to protect the national interest of the United States..." - above quote of President Clinton. As you say, "The truth certainly hurts, doesn't it?".
________________________________________

Too bad you right-wing warmongers weren't interested in truth in 2003. And youre still not interested.
By invading a nation based on lies, Bush became a mass murderer. Of course, Bush also eagerly became a torturer. And you, jr, are his cheerleader. "

You all make me sick to my stomach. You call Bush a murderer and defend the likes of Hussain. You go around screaming about equality and the rights of people, and when we go and free a nation who had no rights, whose women had no equality you bad mouth those that did it. You speak of torture. When was the last time a U.S. soldier drug a burning body around behind a vehicle? When was the last time the U.S. decapitated a man on national T.V.? Where are torture and rape rooms like those Hussain had? Again you make me sick. You bad mouth the very people that give you the freedom to have an opinion. That give you the rights that you have. It is you that is not interested in facts and truth just your own personal objectives. Whether more weapons are found or not, the people of Iraq have for the first time, free elections, clean water, schools, and the likes. The woman aren't raped in the open, aren't treated like property bought and sold, and are treated more like equals. You hypocrites, that want equality, but at no price. Try talking to those who have really been there you might learn something.
As for a cheerleader for Bush I have stated over and over again I have not agreed with all he did. Every president is going to make mistakes they are all human. Why don't you try being honest about your guys for once! "

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Oct 23, 2009 11:20 PM:

" " Hey Neo, I managed to get your name in the paper.
------------------

Well thanks Harry, BBBUUUUUDDDDDYYYYY!

Sorry though...didn't get read it...anymore it goes right into the litter box. "

Come on Pinocchio, you know you look for it every day. Any hey, you're welcome. I do try. lol! "

" EXCELLENT POST JRHENDREN! "

" Conservative columnist George Will went after former Vice President Dick Cheney on Sunday, saying the Bush administration could have used some "dithering" before they invaded Iraq.
"A bit of dithering might have been in order before we went into Iraq in pursuit of nonexistent weapons of mass destruction," Will said. "For a representative of the Bush administration to accuse someone of taking too much time is missing the point. We have much more to fear in this town from hasty than from slow government action."
You see, JR? Even only semi-honest Republicans like George Will now admit the Iraq had no WMD, if they are sane. "

" George W. Bush ordered the CIA to to manufacture a false pretense for the Iraq war in the form of a backdated, handwritten document linking Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda, the Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Ron Suskind said.
Suskind said he spoke on the record with U.S. intelligence officials who stated that Bush was informed unequivocally in January 2003 that Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction.
Suskind reported that the head of Iraqi intelligence, Tahir Jalil Habbush, met secretly with British intelligence in Jordan in the early days of 2003. In weekly meetings with Michael Shipster, the British director of Iraqi operations, Habbush conveyed that Iraq had no active nuclear, chemical or biological weapons programs and no stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction.
When CIA Director George Tenet was informed of the findings in early February, he said, "Theyre not going to like this downtown," meaning the White House. Suskind says that Bush's reaction to the report was: "Why dont they ask him to give us something we can use to help make our case?"
Suskind quotes Rob Richer, the CIA's Near East division head, as saying that the White House simply ignored the Habbush report and informed British intelligence that they no longer wanted Habbush as an informant. "

" Was the former president lying when he acknowledged he was wrong about the WMD's and that Iraq had any thing to do with Al Qaeda? According to some on here, he must have been. So which was it? "

" The Question wrote on Oct 25, 2009 1:50 PM:
" George W. Bush ordered the CIA to to manufacture a false pretense for the Iraq war in the form of a backdated, handwritten document linking Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda, the Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Ron Suskind said.
Suskind said he spoke on the record with U.S. intelligence officials who stated that Bush was informed unequivocally in January 2003 that Saddam had no weapons of mass destruction.
Suskind reported that the head of Iraqi intelligence, Tahir Jalil Habbush, met secretly with British intelligence in Jordan in the early days of 2003. In weekly meetings with Michael Shipster, the British director of Iraqi operations, Habbush conveyed that Iraq had no active nuclear, chemical or biological weapons programs and no stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction.
When CIA Director George Tenet was informed of the findings in early February, he said, "Theyre not going to like this downtown," meaning the White House. Suskind says that Bush's reaction to the report was: "Why dont they ask him to give us something we can use to help make our case?"
Suskind quotes Rob Richer, the CIA's Near East division head, as saying that the White House simply ignored the Habbush report and informed British intelligence that they no longer wanted Habbush as an informant. "


You of course left out that all have denied any such letter, and that their is an investigation including on Mr. Suskind and his allegations. Wow, a possible Extreme leftist making up news for a book. That sounds familiar, oh wait make it a movie and you have Michael Moore. Keep ignoring factual news account and the words of those their and stick with the guy trying to sell books. "

" Harry Potter wrote on Oct 25, 2009 7:30 PM:
" Was the former president lying when he acknowledged he was wrong about the WMD's and that Iraq had any thing to do with Al Qaeda? According to some on here, he must have been. So which was it? "


First, he never said Iraq had nothing to do with Al Qaeda. What he said was, "Nothing, except for it's part of -- and nobody's ever suggested in this administration that Saddam Hussein ordered the attack. Iraq was a -- Iraq -- the lesson of September the 11th is take threats before they fully materialize, Ken." - Former President Bush to reporter. One part is the training camps that have been found and their are pictures of.
Secondly, as I have shown their were WMD's found after the President had made those comments. He was told they were not there, so he said they had not been found, he did go on to say, "he had the capacity to make weapons of mass destruction..." - former President Bush to reporter. So I guess we were supposed to wait until he had perfected it, and used them on his own people again, or others. Let's not forget this man, Hussain, had already killed thousands of his own people or another country. He had rooms to torture and rape people. He suppressed his people into poverty while have palaces for himself. Remember the mass graves that were found. Then their are those pesky U.N. resolutions that were being broken. Of course part of the U.N. were breaking them too. I stand by my words that though he made mistakes in his presidency, like all will, it was the right thing to do. Whether more WMD's are found or not, the freedom of the Iraqi people was a good thing. Ask some of the soldiers who went over there. "

" Boy has this discussion got way off track. Some of you might want to read Mark Kirk's bill just introduced on health care reform. He offers, and I quote:
1. The Medical Rights Act: Prevent the government from interfering with the decisions that you and your doctor have made about you and your familys care.

2. Eliminating waste, fraud and abuse: Save billions in improper fraudulent payments.

3. Reducing Expensive Defensive Medicine: Lawsuit reform and fully electronic medical records to avoid duplicate tests and procedures.

4. Lowering Insurance Costs: Give Americans the right to buy insurance from any state in the union; provide tax breaks to individuals buying their own insurance; and innovation programs to eliminate pre-existing conditions.

These reforms were all included in the bill I just introduced, H.R. 3970, the Medical Rights and Reform Act."

He also goes on to enlighten us on some of what is offered in Pelosi's health-care reform, the so-called public option which she could not or would not even open to the public when announced. Can be read at http://www.weareillinois.org/connect/newsDetail.aspx?newsID=7776. "