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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Lee Enterprises

Thursday, October 8, 2009 9:35 PM CDT
LETTER: People have many choices of protection

JUDY TIMM, Greenup

Abortion is legalized killing. Legal but not right. The question is...why aren’t we using protection?

We have the freedom of choice. So...why are we choosing to kill unborn babies instead of using protection?

Why? How can it be easier to get an abortion than to use protection? A man should use protection. A woman should use protection, plain and simple. Choose to use protection...or use self control.

To do otherwise is to be foolish.

Do not create a baby because you were too lazy to use protection. Abortion is forever.

The pill and condom is a temporary fix to a fit of passion. Don’t let a temporary fit of passion ruin your life. Yes, you have the “right to choose” but choose before, not after. After is choosing to kill. Choose before.

Everybody should be on the same page with this issue. This should not even be an issue. Not when we have so many choices of protection.

JUDY TIMM

Greenup

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Mama says wrote on Oct 6, 2009 10:09 PM:

" Some just live for the moment, Judy.
No thought of TOMORROW, just opportunity knocks and people are stupid. A good portion are drunk,
on drugs, and even more stupid. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 7, 2009 9:36 AM:

" What about the victims of rape, they don't have the option to choose. What about birth defects or problems that endanger the life of the mother? Then there is the problem that nothing is 100% fool proof. As Mama says people will be people, they forget to take a pill or can't follow directions and misuse a product or are just simply stupid and act without thinking. I agree that prevention is the best policy and birth control should be made available to everyone, FREE of charge. BUT reality tells us that there will always be a need for abortions and women deserve to have the right to choose. "

father bob wrote on Oct 7, 2009 9:42 AM:

" the "christian" conservative right doesn't want sex education nor the availability of condoms or birth control pills offered to their little darlings.

remember, your donation to Planned Parenthood is tax deductible. "

father bob wrote on Oct 7, 2009 10:02 AM:

" Mama says wrote on Oct 6, 2009 10:09 PM:
" Some just live for the moment, Judy.
No thought of TOMORROW, just opportunity knocks and people are stupid. A good portion are drunk,
on drugs, and even more stupid. """"

even drunk and stupid women can be on the pill....don't reach so quickly for excuses. and if a guy is REALLY that drunk, he's not going to do any harm anyway. "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Oct 7, 2009 12:30 PM:

" "We have the freedom of choice. So...why are we choosing to kill unborn babies instead of using protection?"

Because that is what "choice" means to pro abortion people Judy, killing babies. They will kill babies for such insignificant reasons as this is a bad time, Im just too stressed out now for a baby, this is an inconvenient time, we wanted a boy not a girl, Im not ready yet I have school to finish, cant afford a baby now, and so on. Very seldom is an abortion because of rape or incest or to save the life of the mother, but they would like us to think these are always the reasons. Not that those are always legitimate reasons anyhow. Every unborn baby is a creation of Gods and it is His choice. "

Just an opinion wrote on Oct 7, 2009 2:56 PM:

" I've never heard of a "baby" being killed by abortion. Only a fetus. Two different things. And if you disagree, please explain to me why when asked your age you say from the date you were born, not nine months prior? That's why we have BIRTHdays, to celebrate the beginning of our lives. "

airy dite wrote on Oct 7, 2009 3:24 PM:

" If a fetus/baby isn't a human being, then what is it? "

father bob wrote on Oct 7, 2009 3:32 PM:

" Jon Vanatta wrote on Oct 7, 2009 12:30 PM:
" "We have the freedom of choice. So...why are we choosing to kill unborn babies instead of using protection?"

Because that is what "choice" means to pro abortion people Judy, killing babies. They will kill babies for such insignificant reasons as this is a bad time, Im just too stressed out now for a baby, this is an inconvenient time, we wanted a boy not a girl, Im not ready yet I have school to finish, cant afford a baby now, and so on. Very seldom is an abortion because of rape or incest or to save the life of the mother, but they would like us to think these are always the reasons. Not that those are always legitimate reasons anyhow. Every unborn baby is a creation of Gods and it is His choice. """""

BIG NEWS jon....there is no god.

women have the right to choose what happens to their bodies. you and your bible thumping morons have NO RIGHT to tell anyone what to do. "

Becky wrote on Oct 7, 2009 3:43 PM:

" Any men out there who has an opinion on this subject are welcome to it BUT until you actually can get pregnant, I'd rather not hear how evil women are for having this option available from you.

Just because abortion was illegal before the 70's doesn't mean it didn't happen. It just meant that women went to back alley butchers and had themselves torn up and/or killed by the thousands every year. I don't like the idea of abortion either but I don't want my daughters, nieces, granddaughters, mothers, sisters, best friends going to some butcher who doesn't know/or care what they are doing. Do any of YOU??? because that's the only other option. We don't live in a perfect world and women are going to have unwanted pregnancies. Wishful thinking doesn't change that fact and it never will. "

Just an opinion wrote on Oct 7, 2009 4:15 PM:

" father bob wrote on Oct 7, 2009 3:32 PM:

BIG NEWS jon....there is no god.

Amen, father bob! ;-) Careful, put your helmet on now before the bible thumping starts! I'm still waiting to find out if I turned 40 8 1/2 months ago since I was alive and well upon conception.

Jon Vanatta wrote on Oct 7, 2009 12:30 PM:

Very seldom is an abortion because of rape or incest or to save the life of the mother, but they would like us to think these are always the reasons. Not that those are always legitimate reasons anyhow. Every unborn baby is a creation of Gods and it is His choice.

I truly hope your wife/daughter/sister never has to live through the trauma of rape and is forced to make that choice. And I wasn't a creation of your god. I was created after my parents had intercourse! "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Oct 7, 2009 9:39 PM:

" "there is no god" right, now there is a real cool come back you really show your intelligence there. Of course there is no god that can create or do anything but there is a God who creates everything. Man may duplicate the process but man cannot create or make the life that an embryo has only God can do that.

Nothing created everything is a scientific impossibility! "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Oct 7, 2009 9:48 PM:

" There goes Humphreys again trying to make us think that the only reasons for abortion are for rape, birth defects or the life of the mother. Most abortions are not for those reasons and you know that well, it is a tired worn out excuse for killing 50 million or more babies most who were viable healthy human beings who were deprived of their choice and of their future. "

Jim1969 wrote on Oct 7, 2009 9:55 PM:

" Having read Judy's letter 3 times I am of the conclusion she is speaking out against using abortion as birth control. It does not sound like she is condemning abortion where there are mitigating circumstances such as rape or where the mother's life is in extreme jeopardy if the pregnancy is continued to full term.

My views on this subject are contradictory. I do believe in the right to choose, but at the same time I do not believe abortion should be used as birth control. "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 7, 2009 11:26 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 7, 2009 9:36 AM:
" Then there is the problem that nothing is 100% fool proof."

Abstinence has been shown to be 100% fool proof in non-wanted pregnancies. "

Mama says wrote on Oct 8, 2009 3:05 AM:

" This reminded me of the girl who put a safety on a banana thinking she not conceive,,,,,that is what showed in school education. lol. So people can be just that stupid, lol. "

just wondering wrote on Oct 8, 2009 8:53 AM:

" Just an opinion, please explain to me then how someone who kills a pregnant woman can be charged for two murders. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 8, 2009 3:50 PM:

" Actually JR abstinance isn't 100% foolproof if you mean by abstinance that there is just no penetration. Those pesky little sperm have been none to find a way in--where there is a will there is a way. There has been more than one case....oh well it is probably too much for your simple brain to comprehend. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Oct 8, 2009 7:21 PM:

" ABORTION?

It's not just a good idea...it's the law!

I'm a firm believer in the virtues of abortion...

AS A MATTER OF FACT... every DEMOCRAT or LIBERAL should be REQUIRED to have ABORTIONS. "

kimmi89 wrote on Oct 8, 2009 9:41 PM:

" I find it disgusting that there's even a debate over the termination of life... isn't that one of mankind's fundamental rights? Even a fetus is human even if it isn't a "baby" (according to some)... just a thought. "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 8, 2009 11:46 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 8, 2009 3:50 PM:
" Actually JR abstinance isn't 100% foolproof if you mean by abstinance that there is just no penetration. Those pesky little sperm have been none to find a way in--where there is a will there is a way. There has been more than one case....oh well it is probably too much for your simple brain to comprehend. "

LOL!!!! You are so funny. So now sperm have brains enough to figure out a way to get in there without sex. Do they have to get a valid passport for the trip? Maybe you should take a bio class or something. Maybe the book, "How are babies made". To much for my simple brain? You are the one who says that it's not a baby, but then say that "Those pesky little sperm have been none to find a way in--where there is a will there is a way". How can they "find a way" without reasoning. Do they get in a huddle first? "You all go right, we'll go left. Johnson you go right up the middle. On two ready break". Sorry, but abstinence is 100%. Oh and here is some proof for you:
"Used continuously, abstinence is 100 percent effective in preventing pregnancy. It also prevents STDs." - Planned Parenthood As for your cases how about some proof. Oh and don't try the, "it was on the toilet seat" gag. That has been proven not to be liable. The sperm dies to soon, not to mention the acids from the urine. LOL!!! Please keep the laughs coming. Next you'll tell us pregnancy is just in a woman's head. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 9, 2009 7:21 AM:

" You know Kimmite it is disgusting that there is a debate over what should only be between a woman and her doctor. Folks like you and I have no right to interfere or second guess or even demand an explanation for or ceondemn a womans choices. "

JWT wrote on Oct 9, 2009 8:24 AM:

" Judy George Bush thinks we should just use abstinance. For 8 years he preached that and took easy access to contraceptives away. "

father bob wrote on Oct 9, 2009 9:49 AM:

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Oct 8, 2009 7:21 PM:
" ABORTION?

It's not just a good idea...it's the law!

I'm a firm believer in the virtues of abortion...

AS A MATTER OF FACT... every DEMOCRAT or LIBERAL should be REQUIRED to have ABORTIONS. """""

spoken like a truly ignorant fascist. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 9, 2009 1:54 PM:

" Actually Mr. Hendren sperm only need a little bit of moisture to be able to maneuver, swim upstream so to say. Somehow it doesn't surprise me one bit that you don't know that. Perhaps if you had had a complete sex education course in school you might have been more educated. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Oct 9, 2009 1:58 PM:

" Cannon (4F)odder Bob...

...the "mistake" that "got away"!

hahahaha! "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 9, 2009 2:04 PM:

" Actually Mr. Hendren STDs can be transmitted orally and anally not just by vaginal penetration. So even abstinance if as some infer just means avoiding vaginal penetration (which is what I said in my first post) is used one can still be surprised by many things! Your ignorance is why complete sex education in public schools is so important. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 9, 2009 2:34 PM:

" Actually Mr. Hendren this "discussion" is a bit like Clinton and his comment "he didn't have sex with that girl". The Repubs that were out to get him claimed that "fooling around" was having sex. He thought otherwise, which is an attitude some young people have. The only abstinance that will work Mr. Hendren is if the sexes are separated on separate planets. Where there is a way folks wil "fool around." "

father bob wrote on Oct 9, 2009 4:18 PM:

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Oct 9, 2009 1:58 PM:
" Cannon (4F)odder Bob...

...the "mistake" that "got away"!

hahahaha! """""

what a display of shear genius! "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 9, 2009 11:52 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 9, 2009 1:54 PM:
" Actually Mr. Hendren sperm only need a little bit of moisture to be able to maneuver, swim upstream so to say. Somehow it doesn't surprise me one bit that you don't know that. Perhaps if you had had a complete sex education course in school you might have been more educated. "

That is correct, but if "it" isn't happening then it can't happen. Maybe you should have listened in that class, or were you the one making out in the back row? "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 10, 2009 12:03 AM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 9, 2009 2:04 PM:
" Actually Mr. Hendren STDs can be transmitted orally and anally not just by vaginal penetration. So even abstinance if as some infer just means avoiding vaginal penetration (which is what I said in my first post) is used one can still be surprised by many things! Your ignorance is why complete sex education in public schools is so important. "

That would be your ignorance you mean. You are now going to do your usual and redefine "abstinence".
Abstinence:
abstinence (āb'stə-nəns)
n. The act or practice of refraining from indulging an appetite or desire, especially for alcoholic drink or sexual intercourse.

That would be all forms of sex, not just the ones you want it to be. Just as the Obama plan you now know that even though Planned Parenthood says one thing you say that is not what they mean. LOL!!! It must be hard being you. Not able to ever admit when your wrong and ignore facts.
________________________________________

shumphreys wrote on Oct 9, 2009 2:34 PM:
" Actually Mr. Hendren this "discussion" is a bit like Clinton and his comment "he didn't have sex with that girl". The Repubs that were out to get him claimed that "fooling around" was having sex. He thought otherwise, which is an attitude some young people have.

You do remember that he admitted he had sex with Mrs. Lewinsky? He was doing more then just fooling around.
________________________________________

The only abstinance that will work Mr. Hendren is if the sexes are separated on separate planets. Where there is a way folks wil "fool around." "

In your opinion. Just because you have no control over yourself does not mean no one does. In any event it does not take away the fact that abstinence is the only 100% proven way to avoid unwanted pregnancy. Separating the sexes and them finding away to "fool around" effects the facts in anyway. "

medic57 wrote on Oct 10, 2009 12:08 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 7, 2009 9:36 AM:

" What about the victims of rape, they don't have the option to choose. What about birth defects or problems that endanger the life of the mother?

Susan, same ole same ole from you.

Rape

Abortion should absolutely be allowed, but only in the 1st Trimester.

The life of the mother in danger.

Absolutely, but only until the 24th week, after that, C-Section is viable.

Birth Defects.

No Way, any woman knows that pregnancy is a 50/50 chance for a healthy baby. You don't want to take the chance, don't try to have a baby, killing babys because of birth defects is what Hitler did. "

just an opinion wrote on Oct 10, 2009 1:24 PM:

" just wondering wrote on Oct 8, 2009 8:53 AM:

" Just an opinion, please explain to me then how someone who kills a pregnant woman can be charged for two murders. "

I've always wondered that myself. Makes absolutely no sense. But then again, much like abortion, it's supported by law so who am I to question it's validity?

Life begins with your first breath. Life ends with your last breath. Sounds pretty cut and dry to me. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 11, 2009 8:24 AM:

" Oh Medic you are so behind the times you need to move into this new century. So you are saying women shouldn't get sonograms or amniocentesis (sp?)? You know (or maybe you don't), they are used to screen for birth defects. Why condemn a woman to bear a fetus to term knowing that it has no heart or no brain and will die upon birth. You are a very very cruel and inhumane person. "

Harry Potter wrote on Oct 12, 2009 9:29 AM:

" ...... killing babys because of birth defects is what Hitler did. "

That was quite a leap, medic. Hitler killed millions of people who he thought were unfit for his new world order, this included those who had mental illness, those with low IQ's, homosexuals, cripples and of course Jews.

No one is advocating that. The argument is whether or not a woman has a choice with her body. The Supreme court has decided she has. "

kimmi89 wrote on Oct 12, 2009 8:51 PM:

" Don't forget God, Shumphreys. I'll let Him judge what is right. "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 12, 2009 11:41 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Oct 12, 2009 9:29 AM:
" ...... killing babys because of birth defects is what Hitler did. "

That was quite a leap, medic. Hitler killed millions of people who he thought were unfit for his new world order, this included those who had mental illness, those with low IQ's, homosexuals, cripples and of course Jews.

No one is advocating that. The argument is whether or not a woman has a choice with her body. The Supreme court has decided she has. "

Though true in what you say about Hitler Harry. The Supreme Court over stepped their boundaries in that case. It should be a decision of each state and not the courts to decide. Each state should have their own laws and guidelines regarding the issue. The Tenth amendment states, "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people." - U.S. Constitution. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 13, 2009 7:12 AM:

" That is fine Kimmie you can let God be your judge. Since I know there is no God I let my conscience,intellect and compassion be my guide. "

kimmi89 wrote on Oct 13, 2009 12:09 PM:

" Compassion for whom? Intelligence in comparison to what? There is no God? I rather doubt you have absolute proof that He doesn't exist (just as I have no absolute proof that He does)it's all relative. Don't over estimate your own abilities. My opinion is that abortion is wrong but I would never say that is the fact of the matter; it's based on my experience, values, etc. Respect the right of others to hold an opinion different from your own, please. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 13, 2009 2:38 PM:

" Disagreeing with your opinion Kimmie is not disrespecting your right to have one. Compassion is towards all people, all living things, the planet. One doesn't have to prove that something that doesn't exist doesn't exist, we just have to show why your proofs are falty--why you can't prove that there is. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 13, 2009 2:40 PM:

" Oh and Kimmie I never underestimate my abilities nor the abilities of others which is the biggest error many posters on these threads make time and time again. "

kimmi89 wrote on Oct 13, 2009 3:13 PM:

" Apparently not all living things, as even if you don't believe that a fetus is a child then you must at least admit that it is a living thing. As for God, if you can't prove that He doesn't exist how can you prove that I'm wrong, or that my logic is faulty? Your assumptions are not fact; I can tell you a million reasons why I believe God exists and you can tell me a million about Him not existing. How would we ever prove who is right? Not everything is knowable as you will eventually have to come to terms with. "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 13, 2009 11:48 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 13, 2009 2:38 PM:
" Compassion is towards all people, all living things, the planet."

Except living babies, or tissue if you want in a mother's womb. Then their is no compassion right? "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 13, 2009 11:59 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 13, 2009 7:12 AM:
" That is fine Kimmie you can let God be your judge. Since I know there is no God I let my conscience,intellect and compassion be my guide. "

You know for a fact their is no God. I don't suppose you would like to enlighten us on how you know since there sure are a lot around the world that say you are wrong. Then again you know every thing. Just ask you and you'll tell us. We already know you do not deal in fact. "

Mattooner at Heart wrote on Oct 14, 2009 8:13 AM:

" What about rape? What about incest? What about saviing the life of the mother?

Somebody please do the research and find out what percentage of the abortions in this country fall into those categories. I have no idea what that would be, but let's say that's 20%. Personally, I believe 20% is an outrageously high percentage but I'm willing to use the figure for argument purposes.

That leaves 80% of abortions for reasons other than the arguments pro-abortion proponents use to make a point.

We anti-abortionists will give you your 20%. We just stopped 80% of abortions. But while you're looking at figures, what percentage of abortions are performed to alleviate an "inconvenience".

More unborn babies die from choice than from any other cause of death.

Don't *even* use the to-may-to/to-mah-to "fetus" argument. You *know* that's nonsense.

Can't remember if you've taken the pill? Try abstinence. It works.

Don't have protection? Try abstinence. It works.

Not sure if the little swimmers are strong enough to broad jump? Try abstinence.

Abstinence works 100% of the time. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 14, 2009 8:15 AM:

" Kimmie one thing you will come to understand when you grow up is that people sometimes have to make difficult choices in life. It is not for me to question their reasons for making their choices. Police officers, and soldiers, have to choose when and who to fire their weapons at. Doctors in emergencies have to choose who to treat first, who can wait, and who may just have to be allowed to die. A firefighter may have to choose who to pull from a burning building, he/she can't carry two people out at once. If a woman chooses an abortion that is her business not mine. It is my business to see that all of child bearing age have complete and adequate sex education, that they have access to FREE birth control (as I said earlier I agree with this writer prevention is best) and if faced with an unwanted pregnancy what ever the reason that there is access to safe and responsible medical services. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 14, 2009 8:22 AM:

" As to God existing. I have read all the arguments and heard them all and none hold water, they all have flaws in their reasoning. You simply can't prove that something that doesn't exist exists. You can hope, you can believe, you can have faith. BUT hope, belief and faith are not proof and if you need proof than you have no hope, belief or faith. In otherwords, if you feel a need to prove that God exists you have missed the boat. Faith is hope where there is no proof. Belief has no proof of truth. Knowledge is proof of truth. You believe in God which is your right just as it is my right not to believe but to seek knowledge/understanding/enlightenment. "

Mattooner at Heart wrote on Oct 14, 2009 9:51 AM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 14, 2009 8:22 AM: "Faith is hope where there is no proof."

No, faith is hope of things *unseen* not *unproven". "

father bob wrote on Oct 14, 2009 9:55 AM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 14, 2009 8:22 AM:
" As to God existing. I have read all the arguments and heard them all and none hold water, they all have flaws in their reasoning. You simply can't prove that something that doesn't exist exists.""""

you're born, you live a while then you die.....end of story.

no miracles, no afterlife. you are organic matter that dies and decomposes just like grass, leaves or a dead fish. "

kimmi89 wrote on Oct 14, 2009 12:27 PM:

" Yes, I agree that you must make hard decisions in life. I've had to make a few myself, BUT to me a child is not a choice. I agree that rape, incest, and all other terrible things are decisions far beyond my scope, but to choose to end a life just because it is an inconvenience is unthinkable to me. Don't go into that whole "womans body" crap, I am a woman and I've never thought about abortion. I'm not married and I'm still in my first few years of college (out of about 6 or so) but if I were to get pregnant whose fault would it be? I'm a big girl and am capable of making big girl decisions. If a woman thinks she is old enough to handle sex she'd better be old enough to handle the consequences. Isn't that kind of the point? Every action has an equal but opposite reaction. That's life, I'm sorry to say.
I never said that I need proof God exists. I said that if you can prove to me that he doesn't then maybe I would re-think my position. The fact is that you can't, and you'll never be able to. There are things in life that we are unable to understand (Right and wrong, God, etc.) What is there for you to seek knowledge about if you believe we're just matter? Even the wisest must concede that there is something greater than themselves. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 14, 2009 12:49 PM:

" M@H your point is worth thinking about which can't be said for many others points. One problem with your choice of unseen and unproven. I have never seen gravity or the wind have you? I don't have faith that these things that are unseen exist I have proof that they exist by the force they have on other things. Something unseen can be proven.Scientists don't see blackholes but they have proof that they exist. God which is unseen is also unproven. Now you can argue and have a year or so ago when we first started talking that you had proof of Gods existence because he healed your child of jaundice! Remember that discussion? Your proof was only proof of your faith not proof of Gods existence. And I have not doubt that you have great faith. "

Just an opinion wrote on Oct 14, 2009 2:21 PM:

" Mattooner at Heart wrote on Oct 14, 2009 8:13 AM:

Don't *even* use the to-may-to/to-mah-to "fetus" argument. You *know* that's nonsense.

What I *know* is that it's my body and my choice and no amount of bible thumping is going to change that. Read the article in todays paper about the number of women (living, breathing actual people) who are dying due to unsafe abortions. I guess that's ok? And in a perfect world, abstinence would be a wonderful alternative but step outside your church doors and see the real world. Sex sells and it's everywhere. "

Mattooner at Heart wrote on Oct 14, 2009 3:21 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 14, 2009 12:49 PM: "One problem with your choice of unseen and unproven. I have never seen gravity or the wind have you?"

No, I have never seen the wind nor have I ever seen gravity . . . but I *have* seen the results and the handiwork of both and I know what both are capable of doing.

I have not seen wind but I have the faith - based on what I *have* experienced with the wind - that the wind is going to blow all the leaves from my yard into my neighbor's yard so I don't have to rake them! (Please no "do unto others" speeches here!)

I have not seen gravity but I have the faith - based on what I *have* experienced with gravity - that when I drop my keys I'm confident that I can look somewhere *below* the point where I lost contact with them to find them.

The same is true about the other phenomena in which I have faith. "

Mattooner at Heart wrote on Oct 14, 2009 3:38 PM:

" Just an opinion wrote on Oct 14, 2009 2:21 PM:

"What I *know* is that it's my body and my choice and no amount of bible thumping is going to change that."

Did I thump anything????

"Read the article in todays paper about the number of women (living, breathing actual people) who are dying due to unsafe abortions. I guess that's ok?"

Where do you get the idea that that's ok and where do you get the idea that I would *think* it's ok? No, it's not ok! If I thought *safe* abortions weren't ok, where in the world would you get the idea that I would think *unsafe* abortions are ok? Are *you* ok?

"And in a perfect world, abstinence would be a wonderful alternative but step outside your church doors and see the real world."

Did I mention that I was in a church? I didn't think so. One does not have to attend a church to take a stand against the needless, selfish act of killing an inconvenience! (Remember, I already gave you your 20% rape, incest, health-of-mother abortions. You can't throw it back or I'll take it back!)

"Sex sells and it's everywhere."

Nor did I mention prostitution . . . I know, I know . . . . don't start.

Yes, it is your body and your choice - I will not contradict nor will I deny that.

As far as the women dying due to unsafe abortions, abstinence would completely get rid of those unsafe abortions becuase applying abstinence instead of living for the moment would negate the need for *any* kind of abortion - safe, legal, unsafe, illegal, whatever.

Heck no, it's not a perfect world nor do I expect it *ever* to be. We're not talking about perfection - we're talking about abstinence and killing one's inconveniences.

Nobody has given any proof that 100% abstinence is 100% foolproof - only excuses about why people will not practice abstinence. The answer to why people don't practice abstinence is easy . . . it's because they don't WANT to!

God (or YHWH or Allah or whomever - let's not make this a religious discussion) help us from taking any responsibility for doing whatever we WANT to do regardless of the consequences! That's waaaaay too responsible. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 14, 2009 4:22 PM:

" M@H as far as gravity and the wind goes what you have isn't faith that is knowledge. There is a BIG difference. Same goes with other "phenomena". One other though about unseen and unproven. If you were to use the word unprovable in reference to God I would agree. There are somethings that concepts of TRUTH simply don't apply. An allegory or mythological story are neither true nor false because they are stories and don't claim to be literally true. The concept of true or false doesn't apply. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 14, 2009 4:26 PM:

" Kimmie I am also a woman and it is a womans body, her choice, and that ain't no crap! If abortion isn't for you that is your option and it is because folks like me insist on a womans right to choose that you also have a right to choose NOT to have an abortion. The right to choose works both ways. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 14, 2009 4:27 PM:

" "What's there to seek knowledge about if we are just matter?" Simply how that matter works. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 14, 2009 4:33 PM:

" There is something greater than ourselves but that something isn't a beared old white man that is all knowing, all seeing, all wise, all powerful and intervenes in the affairs of men when he chooses. That concept of God is a fantasy, in my humble and informed opinion. Now as to what that something is (life force, nature, energy?) and as to where that something originated those are other issues well worth discussing and I am more than happy to discuss them with you if you wish. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 14, 2009 4:38 PM:

" M@H who are you to judge a womans actions? Who are you to even demand a woman justify her actions acording to your ideas of what is right or wrong? Shame on you. I thought you were a better person than that. "

father bob wrote on Oct 14, 2009 5:11 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 14, 2009 4:26 PM:
" Kimmie I am also a woman and it is a womans body, her choice, and that ain't no crap! If abortion isn't for you that is your option and it is because folks like me insist on a womans right to choose that you also have a right to choose NOT to have an abortion. The right to choose works both ways. """""

these do-gooders are the same ones who will use an in vitro clinic and use only half of their embryos. those left are later flushed down a sewer. using their very own logic, this is abortion, and they are baby killers. "

The Question wrote on Oct 14, 2009 5:42 PM:

" You know, it must be frustrating to be a fundamentalist, always being proven so glaringly wrong about everything, from Galileo to Scopes, and constantly being made to look foolish by the very nature of reality.
How strange it must be to hunger and thirst for the destruction of the world and the end of human life merely to justify your own puerile beliefs. "

JWT wrote on Oct 14, 2009 5:50 PM:

" Abortions world wide are DOWN thanks to easier access to birth control!
Guess Bushes "abstinance" policy was failing too. "

kimmi89 wrote on Oct 14, 2009 5:52 PM:

" Did your eight years in college "inform" you that God doesn't exist? I really find it funny that you use God's word to defend your point of view when it suits you. You're pretty much a hypocrit which is par the course for your brand of political bullcrap. At least I can always find an arguement that doesn't undermine my values.
Father Bob what exactly does that have to do with the conversation? And you're really confusing me, am I a do gooder or an evil fascist? Do I care about people or am I an evil, greedy, corporate pig? Please stick to one insult! "

Rockin Rotty wrote on Oct 14, 2009 8:15 PM:

" kimmi89 wrote on Oct 14, 2009 5:52 PM:

"Please stick to one insult!"

.......

OUCH! ROTFLMAO!!!! "

Harry Potter wrote on Oct 14, 2009 8:49 PM:

" One would never know that the abortion issue was settled by the Supreme Court years ago. It's the law of the land, so get over it. All of your bickering and whining won't change a thing. But please feel free to make fools out of yourselves over the issue. "

father bob wrote on Oct 15, 2009 10:54 AM:

" kimmi89 wrote on Oct 14, 2009 5:52 PM:
"Father Bob what exactly does that have to do with the conversation? And you're really confusing me, am I a do gooder or an evil fascist? Do I care about people or am I an evil, greedy, corporate pig? Please stick to one insult! """""

first of all Kimmie, i wasn't talking to you, matter of fact i don't think i have ever talked to you. however as they say.....if the shoe fits... "

Mama says wrote on Oct 15, 2009 11:54 AM:

" Twenty years ago Two Doctors suggested an abortion since pregnant at my age.
I didn't and have such a wonderful son and has been better than riches in my old life. The birth was easy and recovery afterwards went quite well too.
I made it to see 20 years of his life and so proud of him. He makes us all proud. I was the oldest mother and his friends wish they had one, lol. lol. "

Just an opinion wrote on Oct 15, 2009 1:04 PM:

" Mattooner at Heart wrote on Oct 14, 2009 3:38 PM:

"Sex sells and it's everywhere."

Nor did I mention prostitution . . . I know, I know . . . . don't start.

I wasn't talking prostitution. I meant that sex is thrown in our faces everywhere we turn. TV, print media, movies. Are we really naive enough to think that doesn't influence our children? Maybe you should attack them, not the people who deal with the repercussions.

Sorry to infer you were a bible thumping church goer. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... "

just wondering wrote on Oct 15, 2009 1:18 PM:

" Gee Susan, I see that you are practicing that tolerance for other people's views that you keep insisting you have. "

Mattooner at Heart wrote on Oct 15, 2009 1:32 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 14, 2009 4:38 PM:

" M@H who are you to judge a womans actions? Who are you to even demand a woman justify her actions acording to your ideas of what is right or wrong? Shame on you. I thought you were a better person than that. "

Who did I judge? When did I demand a woman justify her actions? Did I miss something? "

Mattooner at Heart wrote on Oct 15, 2009 1:49 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 14, 2009 4:22 PM:

" M@H as far as gravity and the wind goes what you have isn't faith that is knowledge. There is a BIG difference."

No, it isn't knowledge that the leaves are going to blow away because I cannot know the future. I have the faith they are going to blow away because of what I have seen in the past. I have the faith that God also exists and works miracles because of what I have seen in the past that cannot be explained by the scientific method. My son's liver failure (not jaundice) is only one of many, many "scientifically unexplainable phenomena" I have witnessed and experienced that cannot be explained - even my medical experts - using the scientific method and logic.

=====
One other though about unseen and unproven. If you were to use the word unprovable in reference to God I would agree.

Okay . . . tell you what . . . I'll concede to the word "unprovable" to the extent that I will not try to prove to you that God exists or that He continues to work miracles. I'll concede that based on the secular scientific method, it is impossible for me (a true layman) to put together the empirical evidence of His existence that would convince you. That only means one thing, however. That means only that I am incapable of proving God's existence to *you* and not that He doesn't exist at all.

=====
"There are somethings that concepts of TRUTH simply don't apply. An allegory or mythological story are neither true nor false because they are stories and don't claim to be literally true. The concept of true or false doesn't apply."

Well, I'm not sure exactly what you're talking about here but I'll agree that there are things that truth and logic cannot explain.

I'm not going to get into a religious or spiritual discussion with anyone on these threads with regard to the existence or non-existence of the Judeo-Christian God claimed by those who identify with the Christian religion. I respect that you and others do not believe that the God I claim exists. I think you're wrong but then again, you think *I'm* wrong. I will *never* be able to convince you nor will you ever be able to dissuage me from my beliefs. Let's respect one another and move on.

As you know from the past, I am just as irritated by those espousing the Christian faith misusing, misquoting, misinterpreting and otherwise discrediting biblical scripture, philosophy and practices. I'm probably more irritated by those who claim the mantle of Christianity and do these things than I am with those who are clearly *not* Christian and do these things.

I promise not to judge your unbelief (and I don't think I ever have) if you promise not to judge my belief. Deal? "

Mattooner at Heart wrote on Oct 15, 2009 4:32 PM:

" Just an opinion wrote on Oct 15, 2009 1:04 PM: "I wasn't talking prostitution. I meant that sex is thrown in our faces everywhere we turn. TV, print media, movies.

Actually, I knew that - I was just throwing in a little of my sense of humor.
=======
Are we really naive enough to think that doesn't influence our children?

I'm certainly not that naive.
========
Maybe you should attack them, not the people who deal with the repercussions.

Actually, I don't want to attack anyone but I thought I *was* dealing with those who deal with the repercussions. We probably don't see it the same way and we probably are looking at different repercussions. I won't speak for *you* but I believe the repercussions are the results of one's choices and not one's influences.
===========
Sorry to infer you were a bible thumping church goer. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck.... "

. . . then it walks and quacks like a duck. Nothing more.
===========
I *am* one who attends church as regularly as I can, and I *am* one who reads the Judeo-Christian bible . . . but I don't think you'll be able to quote me on these threads as one who thumps on you with scripture *or* as one who tries to pound the scripture into someone who doesn't want to hear or read it. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 16, 2009 7:54 AM:

" M@H you talked about abortions being performed to alleviate an "inconvenience" your term not mine and that my friend is VERY judgmental. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 16, 2009 8:01 AM:

" Justanopiniion please explain how I have not tolerated other viewpoints? Is challenging their view point intoleration in your opinion? Is challenging someone to back up their opinion with facts intoleration in your opinion? Or is it that I do not have the right to speak and bring out unpleasant TRUTHS. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 16, 2009 8:10 AM:

" Now M@H KNOWING how physical systems work is NOT predicting the future. The wind at my house is almost always out of the north and west. This past week it has been out of the east. Unusual but based on what I KNOW not based on faith it is predictable, expectable, and not surprising and MOST importantly explainable. That is what knowledge is, it isn't about predicting the future. As to your sons "jaundice" you have now changed your story to liver failure. That isn't what you said over a year ago. Then you called it jaundice. And jaundice by the way occurs because a liver is not working right and as I pointed out then it is common in infants and it is common for it to self-correct in infants although doctors can't explain why. Just because a Doctor can't explain everything doesn't mean that there isn't an explanation, that God did it. It just means the Doctor didn't have all the information. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 16, 2009 8:17 AM:

" As I said in my first post M@H I have no doubt that you have faith, that you believe in Gods existence, and I also realize that you believe that you and your family have been blessed above many others by God. That alone for me is proof that God exists only in your mind not in reality.

You are right you will never convince me or many, many others so why even bother to try. Every time you or anyone else uses God as an excuse or justification for their action or in many cases inaction responsible folks like me are honor bound to speak up. AND you know you and others will get pi--ed at that. Why not just leave God out of public policy discussions? "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 16, 2009 8:22 AM:

" Oh and M@H as usual I was not the one to bring God into the picture. You can thank Kimmie for that. I just pointed out that if she wanted to let God be her judge she could do that. For me I prefer to let my conscience, intellect and compassion be my guide. "

Mattooner at Heart wrote on Oct 16, 2009 10:14 AM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 16, 2009 7:54 AM:

" M@H you talked about abortions being performed to alleviate an "inconvenience" your term not mine and that my friend is VERY judgmental. "

Judging is assessing a value to a person and not simply making a declaration. I did not come up with the term "inconvenience" to describe the the reason for having an abortion. My introduction to the term "inconvenience" came from a statement made by a woman who had an abortion and stated it was not convenient for her to have a child at that time in her life.

I am not assessing a value to that woman nor am I assessing a value to that behavior. I'm using her term for her reason and simply stating it. *You* assess the relative value on the term as you see fit. "

Just an opinion wrote on Oct 16, 2009 11:17 AM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 16, 2009 8:01 AM:

" Justanopiniion please explain how I have not tolerated other viewpoints? Is challenging their view point intoleration in your opinion? Is challenging someone to back up their opinion with facts intoleration in your opinion? Or is it that I do not have the right to speak and bring out unpleasant TRUTHS. "

I don't think you meant this for me. Maybe "just wondering" "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 16, 2009 1:06 PM:

" Sorry Just an Opinion I got my justs mixed up. I did mean it for Just Wondering. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 16, 2009 1:10 PM:

" "needless selfish act of killing an inconvenience." Those were your words M@H, you didn't attribute them to another person in your post. AND that is being judgmental. AND as I pointed out it isn't yours to judge and I thought you were a better man than that. "

dstew66 wrote on Oct 16, 2009 1:16 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 13, 2009 2:38 PM:

" Disagreeing with your opinion Kimmie is not disrespecting your right to have one. Compassion is towards all people, all living things, the planet. One doesn't have to prove that something that doesn't exist doesn't exist, we just have to show why your proofs are falty--why you can't prove that there is. "

How about these proofs?

The remains of Pharoah's chariots found in the Red Sea.

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=33168

The remains of Sodom & Gomorrah, complete with brimstone.

http://www.arkdiscovery.com/sodom_&_gomorrah.htm

Do you have something against archealogical discoveries?

How did these things get there? It seems to match the narratives in Genesis and Exodus pretty well, don't you think? "

father bob wrote on Oct 16, 2009 4:26 PM:

" In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.

Say: O unbelievers!
I do not serve that which you serve,
Nor do you serve Him Whom I serve:
Nor am I going to serve that which you serve,
Nor are you going to serve Him Whom I serve:
You shall have your religion and I shall have my religion. "

Harry Potter wrote on Oct 16, 2009 4:34 PM:

" The more I read the response to Susan's posts, the more I become convinced that some people just can't stand an intelligent and articulate woman.

I think they might prefer that you stay in the kitchen, SH. Keep it up, you have a fan. lol! "

father bob wrote on Oct 16, 2009 5:21 PM:

Mattooner at Heart wrote on Oct 16, 2009 8:43 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 16, 2009 1:10 PM:

" "needless selfish act of killing an inconvenience." Those were your words M@H, you didn't attribute them to another person in your post. AND that is being judgmental. AND as I pointed out it isn't yours to judge and I thought you were a better man than that. "

Geez! Sorry if I didn't cite and footnote my post! I didn't realize it was a term paper.

I am not judging a person. I am citing a behavior. I said it before and that's where I stand on it. I did not say a person is good, bad or indifferent because of their attitude.

As far as judging a behavior, each one of us everyday judges a behavior either as "a behavior I would like to exhibit" and then they do it, or it's a "behavior I would NOT like to exhibit" and then they refrain from it. "

gradgirl wrote on Oct 16, 2009 9:41 PM:

" You're sad Father Bob. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 17, 2009 7:54 AM:

" Using the word "selfish" is judgmental M@H. You are abscribing a motive to an action based on no evidence, no proof only your own opinion. Citing references or using quote marks is important even on blogs if you want it understood that the words aren't yours. Yes we all judge each day and it is what we do with those judgments that matter. I apologize I thought you were a better man than you are. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 17, 2009 8:03 AM:

" Dstew I have never said that there aren't some historical truths in the Bible. There are also just as many untruths. Look at Genesis I and II which one is true, they both can't be true since they tell a different sequence of events. Then look at Ezra 2:3 and Nehemiah 7:8 the listing of the tribes aren't the same. Oops, somebody goofed. John 12:24 says "except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die...." Seeds are living things they don't die. The writer of this didn't understand basic biology. Matthes 13:31-32 the grain of mustard seed..the smallest of all. Only mustard seed isn't the smallest of all. I can go on an on but so can you just google Bible Errors. "

dstew66 wrote on Oct 18, 2009 10:58 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 17, 2009 8:03 AM:

" Dstew I have never said that there aren't some historical truths in the Bible."

These "historical truths" as you call them are two proofs. You said in order to show that God doesn't exist you just have to show how these proofs are faulty. What evidence do you have that the archaelogical evidence is faulty?

You are the one that established the criteria. I am willing to look at your evidence. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 19, 2009 8:14 AM:

" First of all DSTEW it was the "reed sea" not the "red sea" that the Hebrews crossed. The word was mistranslated. A reed sea was a marshy area. Second there is no evidence to support the story of Exodus, archaeologically, in the writings of the Egyptians or elsewhere. It is all a fabricated tale. Third if the Bible is full of "untruths" than how can you be sure that any of the Bible has any "truth" to it. "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 19, 2009 11:12 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 19, 2009 8:14 AM:
" First of all DSTEW it was the "reed sea" not the "red sea" that the Hebrews crossed. The word was mistranslated. A reed sea was a marshy area. Second there is no evidence to support the story of Exodus, archaeologically, in the writings of the Egyptians or elsewhere. It is all a fabricated tale. Third if the Bible is full of "untruths" than how can you be sure that any of the Bible has any "truth" to it. "

Wrong on all accounts again, but since you just make it up as you go along anyways. Never mind. "

GrampaC wrote on Oct 20, 2009 9:48 AM:

" Father Bob wrote on Oct.14, 2009 9:55am
"you're born, you live a while then you die....end of story
no miracles, no afterlife, you are organic matter that dies and decomposes just like grass, leaves or a dead fish."

Since you are from Dolton, Illinois FB, seems the caretakers and owners of nearby Burr Oak Cemetery in Alsip felt the same way you do. Any relation?
Couldn't verify that you FB served on city council of Dolton, Illinois. With information you supplied, would take CSI and FBI to solve and prove your career in public office.
Guess you're not that reveled there in Dolton.
GRADGIRL-accurate and correct synopsis of FB "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 20, 2009 2:44 PM:

" Mr. Hendren learn about the Bible it really is a great book. Biblical scholars have learned so much the past several years. PBS had a great program a year ago, can't remember exactly what it was called, but it was about following in the footsteps of the Bible. They followed several stories on the ground from landmark to landmark. Very interesting and yes it was the reed sea. "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 21, 2009 12:01 AM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 20, 2009 2:44 PM:
" Mr. Hendren learn about the Bible it really is a great book. Biblical scholars have learned so much the past several years. PBS had a great program a year ago, can't remember exactly what it was called, but it was about following in the footsteps of the Bible. They followed several stories on the ground from landmark to landmark. Very interesting and yes it was the reed sea. "

I have read, and studied the Bible for years. If it is the program I am thinking of they were looking more to proving the Bible as just a book, and not what it is. They get it wrong all the time look at NOVA, they are still talking about "missing links" that have been proven wrong. Not to mention PBS's views on evolution as the only possible explanation for human life. Now about your "Reed Sea", it is in fact the Red Sea, and not some swampy area as you wish it to be. The Hebrew word can be Reed, but in the context of "The Sea" it is that of the Red Sea. The most important thing here is that the Hebrew people walked on dry land, as the Sea was parted.

You might try not just reading the Bible but actually studying the Scriptures, although be careful you might accidentally learn something about God, and yourself. "

Just an opinion wrote on Oct 21, 2009 8:20 AM:

" GrampaC wrote on Oct 20, 2009 9:48 AM:

Couldn't verify that you FB served on city council of Dolton, Illinois. With information you supplied, would take CSI and FBI to solve and prove your career in public office.

Is that stalking, FB??? "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 21, 2009 2:41 PM:

" Have you ever seen a "sea" of reeds Mr. Hendren. The point is that an error was made in the translation of the Bible, that the entire Exodus story is a fabrication not substantiated by facts on the ground. AND if one teeny little part of the Bible is in error than it makes you wonder about what else in the Bible isn't TRUE? As for PBS we know you listen to Fox News and consider that as an unbiased balanced news source. We wouldn't expect you to have respect for factual, unbiased, educational programs as appear on PBS. "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 21, 2009 11:21 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 21, 2009 2:41 PM:
" Have you ever seen a "sea" of reeds Mr. Hendren. The point is that an error was made in the translation of the Bible, that the entire Exodus story is a fabrication not substantiated by facts on the ground. AND if one teeny little part of the Bible is in error than it makes you wonder about what else in the Bible isn't TRUE?

This of course is all in your opinion, with no factual base.
________________________________________

As for PBS we know you listen to Fox News and consider that as an unbiased balanced news source. We wouldn't expect you to have respect for factual, unbiased, educational programs as appear on PBS. "

You obviously do not read any of my posts. I have said several times that Fox leans to the right. Just as others lean to the left, such as PBS. If you do not believe they do, which you seem to not, then you are the one in the dark. One fact still remains, you can't fight facts, as your post once again shows. "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 21, 2009 11:36 PM:

" Hey Susan sense you have jumped the topic does this mean you have no other argument about abstinence being 100% fool proof? "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 22, 2009 7:58 AM:

" Mr. Hendren google Reed Sea and you will be amazed at what you can find. But you do need to read carefully and do some fact checking. For example "gracethrufaith.com" says that reeds only grow in fresh water so the translation of "reed" is obviously wrong. Then googld Phragmites, the common reed, grows in brackish water, areas often inundated by seawater. It also grows in fresh water and I have it on the edge of my pond. A really beautiful plant, although invasive in some areas. It is easy to see why a large patch would be described as a "sea". "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 22, 2009 1:44 PM:

" Mr. Hendren it all depends on what you mean by abstinance! Bill Clintons concept, no penetration just fooling around? If you want abstinance as your only method of birth control than you will need to separate males and females on different planets. Then actually I suspect that would be a good push for space programs, some enterprising young man would sooner than later find a means for making intergalactic space travel cost efficient! Don't forget STDS can be spread by other means, not just by sexual penetration, so it is very very important to be well informed. "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 22, 2009 11:30 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 22, 2009 7:58 AM:
" Mr. Hendren google Reed Sea and you will be amazed at what you can find. But you do need to read carefully and do some fact checking. For example "gracethrufaith.com" says that reeds only grow in fresh water so the translation of "reed" is obviously wrong. Then googld Phragmites, the common reed, grows in brackish water, areas often inundated by seawater. It also grows in fresh water and I have it on the edge of my pond. A really beautiful plant, although invasive in some areas. It is easy to see why a large patch would be described as a "sea". "

So you now know all about reeds and the Red Sea because you have a pond?
Hey Susan try taking some classes on ancient history and ancient Biblical history, instead of watching slanted PBS. If I remember right that was the same show that tried to prove the burning bush was really just a bush that bloomed bright reddish colors appearing to be on fire. Science once again trying to explain away miracles. PBS has been anti-religion for years and continues, being partly funded by the government. They continue to try and disprove the Bible, however it remains the most historically accurate book ever written. Archeologist continue to find cities, area, and artifacts mentioned in the Bible that were once believed to have never existed. They have found the likes of the spot were the tower of Babel was built, to older more reliable manuscripts. Sorry Susan but you are once again going into territory you do not know. "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 22, 2009 11:44 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 22, 2009 1:44 PM:
" Mr. Hendren it all depends on what you mean by abstinance! Bill Clintons concept, no penetration just fooling around?"

Leave it to you to believe that as an excuse, oh and remember he was latter found to be lying about his definition of "is".
________________________________________

If you want abstinance as your only method of birth control than you will need to separate males and females on different planets."

Why because you can not control yourself and your urges no one can? Sorry but their are a lot of people out their that have never had sex because of their beliefs. Just because you have none does not make them wrong.
________________________________________

"Don't forget STDS can be spread by other means, not just by sexual penetration, so it is very very important to be well informed. "

Sexually Transmitted Diseases can be spread by other means? Then aren't they just Transmitted Diseases? Without getting graphic, STD's can only be passed in a sexual way. Skin to skin with contact with affected area, and other forms of sexual contact. You can not get it through saliva as in kissing. It can be spread on rare occasions through breast milk, but the primary reason is still through sexual contact. This from the Centers for Disease Control. I am sure, just like Obama's plan and Planed Parenthood saying abstinence is the only 100% guarantee of non-pregnancy or STD's, you will not agree so it is not true. We all know you know more then the professionals. Maybe you saw a show on PBS so you know more then all again. "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 22, 2009 11:52 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Oct 16, 2009 4:34 PM:
" The more I read the response to Susan's posts, the more I become convinced that some people just can't stand an intelligent and articulate woman.

I think they might prefer that you stay in the kitchen, SH. Keep it up, you have a fan. lol! "

Harry you have to be kidding me? You don't actually agree with this woman? A woman who does not live by facts but by her own personal opinion. Someone who when shown indisputable facts says thinks such as, "That is not what he meant." or that sperm can figure out how to "get there". This person who praises Planned Parenthood then when shown they say abstinence is 100% fool proof try to pull a Clinton. Tries to redefine sex. Come on Harry please tell me I have not given you to much credit? Please tell me you do not believe her dribble, and non ability to be wrong? You my friend are to smart to believe in this. "

Harry Potter wrote on Oct 24, 2009 1:03 PM:

" Harry you have to be kidding me? You don't actually agree with this woman? A woman who does not live by facts but by her own personal opinion. Someone who when shown indisputable facts says thinks such as, "That is not what he meant." or that sperm can figure out how to "get there". This person who praises Planned Parenthood then when shown they say abstinence is 100% fool proof try to pull a Clinton. Tries to redefine sex. Come on Harry please tell me I have not given you to much credit? Please tell me you do not believe her dribble, and non ability to be wrong? You my friend are to smart to believe in this. "

No jr, just like I don't agree with everything anyone else says on here. Susan makes some very valid points. I find her comments thought provoking and admit that I agree with her on a lot of the issues, especially those that are of a political nature. She gutsy and stands her ground and I like that in a person. She's obviously extremely bright and has a rapier wit that cuts to the bone, and many of her distractors don't even know when she's filleted them, so to speak. I get a good laugh everytime I see that. And even though they're at the opposite ends of the political spectrum, I'm often reminded of William Buckley when I follow her little battles with others on here. Like Buckley, Susan has the ability to cut people off at the knees without them even realizing it. That's pure entertainment to me. "

Cognitus wrote on Oct 26, 2009 8:23 PM:

" jrhendron:"Abstinence has been shown to be 100% fool proof in non-wanted pregnancies."

And how many years of experience do you
have to prove that this is the case?????? "

Cognitus wrote on Oct 26, 2009 8:54 PM:

" kimmi89 is not the only one to refer to
following "God's word".

So how many who quote God's word have
read Leviticus and faithfully followed
all the orders and commandments found
therein??????? "

father bob wrote on Oct 26, 2009 8:56 PM:

" Cognitus wrote on Oct 26, 2009 8:23 PM:

" jrhendron:"Abstinence has been shown to be 100% fool proof in non-wanted pregnancies."

.....um...can we borrow a clothes hanger? "