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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Lee Enterprises

Tuesday, October 13, 2009 9:37 PM CDT
Family files lawsuit in fatal double-decker bus accident

By HERB MEEKER, Staff Writer
hmeeker@jg-tc.com

CHARLESTON — A lawsuit against the companies, the owner and driver of a double-decker bus alleges all defendants failed to provide enough route and passenger management to prevent two deaths at the Interstate 57-Illinois Route 16 overpass.

The parents of Cameron Chana, who died in the May 30 accident along with Justin Sleezer, filed a lawsuit Thursday in Coles County Circuit Court against the bus driver, John F. Protz of Coles County; Augustine G. Oruwari, owner of the Graywood Foundation, Graywood Enterprises and Lincoln Springs Resort; and the Graywood entities, which are tied to the operation of the rental bus.

The suit seeks an unspecified amount of monetary damages.

Chana of Clarendon Hills and Sleezer of Plano suffered massive head injuries while on the open deck of the bus, standing 13 feet, 6 inches, when it traveled under the I-57 bridge with a clearance of 14 feet and 3.3 inches at the center point above Route 16, according to Mattoon Police Department accident reports.

“Our position is the bus company failed to do a lot of things that contributed to these tragic deaths,” said Bob Bingle, attorney for the estate of Chana, who attended Eastern Illinois University.

Officials at Lincoln Springs and Graywood could not be reached Tuesday. The defendants will have an opportunity to respond to the suit through legal filings in coming weeks.

The lawsuit claims several points of negligence, including failure to monitor the conduct of the passengers on the second level of the bus or use of an alternative route to avoid the I-57 overpass with its low clearance compared to higher overpasses, including the one along Illinois Route 316 near Mattoon.

“All the driver had to do was take the same route he did in the morning,” said Bingle, a Chicago attorney, during a telephone interview Tuesday afternoon. “And no one on the bus will testify he was warning the passengers not to stand up. There was a free flow of movement from the lower level to the upper deck throughout the trip.”

The owners of the bus have said the driver and signs on the bus warned against standing on the upper deck.

Police documents, which include eyewitness statements, Illinois Department of Transportation measurement data, photographs of the bus, and accident data, show the passengers, including college students and alumni from Eastern, recalled branches of trees striking them when they drove in Mattoon. Some passengers were also consuming beer during the chartered day trip from Charleston to Lake Shelbyville.

“Some of them said they had to avoid branches when they were sitting down,” Bingle said.

Passenger statements in police records also discounted that the victims or others were standing or jumping on the upper deck, according to the lawsuit. At least two witnesses said one of the victims was kneeling in an upper level seat with one foot on the floor. However, Chana stood 6-5 and Sleezer, 6-1. Another witness said the impact on the victims occurred after the bus cleared the west end of the bridge.

Police records state the bus switched its route to fulfill the request of some passengers to stop at the McDonald’s restaurant for food in Mattoon before heading back to Charleston. The bus had traveled to Lake Shelbyville for a boat outing that day.

The lawsuit suggests the bus driver should have had all passengers remain on the lower deck when driving under the overpass to avoid any risks due to the tall bus and low clearance of the bridge.

The plaintiff’s case also claims Protz was not provided proper and sufficient training on the bus routes and hazards present on those routes.

Bingle said the case will also include a filing by the lawyer representing Sleezer’s family. He said their intent to file last week was delayed due to complications on estate matters.

“We have been working with their lawyer and they should file in a matter of days. It will take at least a year to finish discovery on this case.

“So it will take some time before it could go to trial,” Bingle said.

Contact Herb Meeker at hmeeker@jg-tc.com or 238-6869.

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Rohn Gordon wrote on Oct 13, 2009 1:29 PM:

" I knew this was coming. "

Medic77 wrote on Oct 13, 2009 3:07 PM:

" While I feel sorry for the family of this young man, a lawsuit will not bring him back. The young man chose to get drunk. The young man chose to stand up on a moving vehicle. A reasonable person would not feel that standing on a moving vehicle is safe. The young man through his own actions caused his unintentional death. No one else is to blame. "

willowhall wrote on Oct 13, 2009 3:43 PM:

" I agree with Medic completely on this one. It is tragic, yes, however, since the driver could not even see the top of the bus, I hardly see the good a lawsuit will do. "

blackbird wrote on Oct 13, 2009 4:18 PM:

" Everyone knows that there is going to be a lawsuit. In any event like this, someone always wants to hold someone else accountable or responsible, whether they are in the wrong or not, thus a lawsuit is filed.

This is not the time to cast blame, we need to wait until this goes to trial, that's if there is even going to be a trial. There is no indication that the bus operator did anything wrong. There were no charges filed, the police investigation is concluded. Nothing the operator or the company did, contributed to this accident. This bus is rented to everyone for one occasion or the other. And, at each time, you have to sign a contract.

I've rented from them before and with the signing of the contract you are given a choice whether you want them to provide a chaperon or if you will be responsible to chaperon. If you choose to be the chaperon, you are instructed as to your responsibilities and what you must do, if you do not use their chaperon and given a list of rules and responsibilities to abide by.

That's what happened here. Not to mention using a chaperon, but their are signs as to the rules including but not limited to NOT standing up while the bus is moving.

In every other case where the company provided a chaperon or the individuals provided their own and were responsible, this has never been an issue or a problem in the past. We need to keep this in mind as we discuss this.

These individuals provided their own chaperon hence they were responsible for their actions. If they had been doing what they needed to do, they would not have been standing up on a moving bus, facing the opposite direction of the way they were traveling and playing with their lives. It was like Russian Roulette.

When you play Russian Roulette, you know what your chances are. I do not try to be offensive or mean, but this is what happened, it was an accident.

Plus, there are a lot of things that we do not know or are not privy to as the public. Not all the information is out yet. Everyone needs to calm down and wait. I think we will all be surprised when we know what really happened on that bus. "

reddual wrote on Oct 13, 2009 5:17 PM:

" With everything else going on in the world, this is news?? Of course there will be a lawsuit. Everyone sues everyone else is this day and age. Doesn't the newspaper have anything better to report on? Now a fight at a powder puff contest is news! "

The Question wrote on Oct 13, 2009 7:01 PM:

" OF COURSE this is news! Who are you trying to cover up for, "reddual?" "

The Question wrote on Oct 13, 2009 7:02 PM:

" By the way, precisely WHO is being sued, and for HOW MUCH? And what does the suit allege? Let's have the FACTS. "

zeldalu wrote on Oct 13, 2009 7:09 PM:

" I knew it too Rohn, the only question I have is how much is one life worth, then how much is two? It is just a terrible shame that this happened in the first place. My thoughts and prayers still go out to the familes of these guys. "

mdt1234 wrote on Oct 13, 2009 7:41 PM:

" its great isnt it kids go get drunk and parents sue for raising idiotic adult me thw american way sue, sue. sue "

Hammbone wrote on Oct 13, 2009 8:57 PM:

" Were these 2 grown men told to keep there seats while the bus was in motion? I hope this suit is thrown out.
There comes a point in life when one has to take responcibility for one's actions.I see no blame in the company or the driver. I have no attachment to either company or driver or men involved.
Having been in dangerous situations myself,one learns to pay attention to there suroundings and goings on. I climbed radio towers for 23yrs and buddy you have your life in your own hands.You screw up and it's a long way down and a sudden stop.18 seconds from 550ft to the ground.A long time to have your life pass before your eyes.
So I do know about a dangerous situations.And being drunk is NO EXCUSE. That driver didnt make those 2 drink nor did the company that supplied the bus. Those 2 men chose to drink and paid the max price for not paying attention to there surroundings.
I'd love to hear the petty fogging lawyers try and plead this case. "

Hahvahd wrote on Oct 13, 2009 9:28 PM:

" Let's not forget that the young men and their fraternity were trying to be responsible, at least on one level. They knew that they would be drinking that day so they hired someone else to do the driving. These two men weren't doing anything illegal; they were above the drinking age.

I wonder if there were any reminders about the rules once everyone re-boarded the bus. It's a pretty sure bet that after the passengers had been drinking all day that they were showing signs of intoxication when they got back on the bus.

Yes, these were adults who should be responsible for their own actions, but it's also common knowledge that intoxicated people aren't always the most logical people in the world. . . .

I also wonder if the fact that the driver agreed to the passengers' request and altered the planned route by stopping at McDonalds would do anything to change the terms of the contract that was signed. Were it not for that stop, the route home wouldn't have involved an overpass, so it wouldn't have mattered if the passengers were drunk, using poor judgment, and breaking the rules by standing up with the bus in motion.

My heart goes out to all who were involved -- the families of those who lost their lives, the driver, the passengers who witnessed this horrible scene, everyone. Maybe this avoidable accident will cause the company to change its policies and insist on provide its own chaperones. "

prairieguy wrote on Oct 13, 2009 9:33 PM:

" So what's the news? Isn't this the country with more lawyers per capita and per square mile than anywhere else on Earth? Dollars will never ease death. "

slap63 wrote on Oct 13, 2009 10:49 PM:

" I guess if the owners of the bus decide to settle then that means the bus driver is guilty? That is certainly the way the public thinks. (Brumleve vs city of Charleston/Butler). Hopefully they will fight the lawsuit. I'm sure the bus driver has been living in his own hell since the accident. But, people like to blame everyone else but the drunk people. And its always someone else's fault a drunk and/or innocent people lose their lives. Big corps and cities like to settle. I guess we will have to see how this ends up. For the bus drivers sake, I hope they don't settle. He was busy driving a bus. It's kind of hard to babysit and drive. "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 13, 2009 11:32 PM:

" Hahvahd wrote on Oct 13, 2009 9:28 PM:

"I also wonder if the fact that the driver agreed to the passengers' request and altered the planned route by stopping at McDonalds would do anything to change the terms of the contract that was signed. Were it not for that stop, the route home wouldn't have involved an overpass..."

Yes it would. They would have been using Dewitt east, and their is an overpass there. "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 13, 2009 11:35 PM:

" Once again we have an example of people not having to take responsibility for their actions. This is a tragedy, one that could have been avoided, but to blame the bus driver and the company is ridiculous. I would hope that two college aged adults would know not to stand up, but they didn't and now they are unfortunately dead. It was an avoidable accident, but not negligence on the drivers part. Things like this are why everything is so expensive to do. Frivolous lawsuits, that just raise insurance, that raise prices. "

emt72 wrote on Oct 14, 2009 12:32 AM:

" My family was on our way to Champaign that day and was at the gas station when the bus stopped by. It stopped and parked at the gas station in front of wal-mart to let the kids off. They all were shouting and yelling at people pumping gas. All drunk and acting like fools. I told my mother and sister someone is going to get hurt on that bus, them being drunk and sitting on top. The next day I heard about it and I thought what fools. "

townie2 wrote on Oct 14, 2009 1:06 AM:

" My geez people- the people who are now deceased were on the companys property. Thats were the law suit originates. If i break my leg on your property because I wanted to run acrosss it, you are responsible.FOR NEGLIGANCE. Where is the logic at? If you kill someone in an accident by pure accident, you are at fault. LOGIC People! COMMON SENSE! I do agree that no amount of money is going to bring their loved ones back, but they are entitled to a sum of money! The families are not acting as if they cant. They CAN. The fact is that they were on the company's property, therefore the company is responsible! Get a clue and stop the b@#$chn! The familes are doing what they have the RIGHT to. Why ya'll gonna b@#ch, when we the PEOPLE give our governemnt the authority to let us act in this manner? IM CONFUSED? "

dc wrote on Oct 14, 2009 1:49 AM:

" They should be awarded alot of money. They did the right thing-- hired a designated driver. How incompitent do you have to be, COME ON MAN. I hope the families get a million each. Anybody who lost a family member to drunk driver will surely agree these kids did the right thing. "

HeinekenMan wrote on Oct 14, 2009 5:12 AM:

" I completely disagree with most of the comments to this point. Medic's comments are ridiculous. Do you really think the family believes this will bring their son back?

The fact is that a company drove a bus under an overpass without enough clearance. Someone standing on the bus contributed to the accident, but it was an accident that was almost sure to happen at some point. You can't load a bunch of drunk college students on the bus and not know that they're probably going to stand up during the trip. Any idiot could tell you that might happen.

I'm not a big fan of civil suits, but companies need to be held accountable for their negligence. "

M wrote on Oct 14, 2009 6:40 AM:

" I just think this is a horrible accident. No one should be suing anybody. Obviously this driver was trying to keep everyone happy...the little side trip to McDonald's was not for him, was it? The kids that were killed knew they should not be standing but they were kids and kids think they are invincible. Maybe I should say young adults instead of kids. The point is that it was a stupid mistake on their part. I can not imagine fully the hurt this has caused their family and friends but it needs to be acknowledged for what it was...a stupid and tragic mistake on the part of the victims. "

Peter_Venkman wrote on Oct 14, 2009 9:25 AM:

" Dc, i've attempted to read your comment multiple times and i've come to the conclusion that you're completely oblivous to the facts of the story. The driver of the bus wasn't intoxicated. The two men killed were. They weren't killed because of a drunk driver but because they were drunk and stood up while traveling 50mph going under an underpass. "

Medic77 wrote on Oct 14, 2009 10:06 AM:

" HeinekenMan,

Remeber your comment the next time you pay an insurance premium, or get a medical bill. "

Medic77 wrote on Oct 14, 2009 10:12 AM:

" HeinekenMan,
No I don't believe the family feels a lawsuit will bring their family member back from the dead. What I am trying to say is that when something like this happens, families go through a grieving process (well documenented in a book "5 Stages of Death and Dying, published by Elisabeth Kubler-Ross in 1969) Many families, and it would appear this family is no different are stuck in the anger stage. They are having a difficult time psychologically dealing with the death of their son, and are looking for someone to blame, warranted or not. "

Hound Dog wrote on Oct 14, 2009 10:24 AM:

" Out of court settlement for a small amount. Only ones who benefit are the lawyers. Terrible, terrible ACIDENT. Driver not at fault. "

hahvahd wrote on Oct 14, 2009 11:10 AM:

" If the company wanted to travel safely with the double decker, they could have bypassed the overpass altogether by taking Old State Rd. to Lerna Rd. and then reconnecting with Rt. 16. Or I believe one of the attorneys pointed out that the overpass on Dewitt East has a higher clearance. "

collegemom wrote on Oct 14, 2009 11:27 AM:

" I am sorry that two lives were lost and in a very tragic way. However these kids chose to get drunk and stand up on a moving bus. THis is common sense to anyone. Also as it states in the article they made it under the west end just fine so had they not been horsing around they would have probably made it safely the rest of the way. Why is it when someone dies unexpectedly we as a human race see it as a source of income. Getting thousands upon thousands of dollars is not going to bring these two boys back so what is having money going to do for the families other than make them the target to be used by people that are suddenly their friends. I think these parents need to grieve and stop blaming everyone else for their childrens mistakes. "

CollegeDad wrote on Oct 14, 2009 12:30 PM:

" I'm reading comments from a lot of people who are oblivious to the facts of what happened on that tragic day. Have any of you talked with any of the young men or women that were on the bus? Until you do, please reserve your judgement and generalizations. I've witnessed the way this terrible event has affected so many lives. If anything, I hope the aftermath of any litigation results in legislation which prohibits open-top double-decker "party" buses from operating on the open road. These kids did everything they needed to do to cover their bases and it still ended in tragedy. A great way to remember these two wonderful young men would be to register as an organ and tissue donor at donatelifeillinois.org "

devilishangel61401 wrote on Oct 14, 2009 12:39 PM:

" My prayers go out to everyone involved in this tradgedy. Townie the thing is people need to be responsible for their own actions. I have never understood how if I choose to run across the lawn of a business and I slip, fall and break my leg it is their fault. Now there are circumstances that could put them in the postion of being irresponsible however.. if it is winter and they have not put salt, sand or kitty litter on their sidewalk or put up a "slippery surface" sign up I fall and break my leg then yes it is their responsiblity. In this case the passengers were made to sign a contract stateting that they knew the risks, the rules etc etc and would comply with those rules. The passengers violated the rules being drunk, standing up on a moving bus. These men were intoxicated to the point of not having the ability to exercise their common sense but they were ADULTS!! They should not have to be "babysat" like a bunch of children! I have lost freinds to drunk drivers and that driver was the person to blame because they chose to drink, become drunk and get behind the wheel of the car. Should those family members of my freinds have sued the bar owners or even the bar tender?? If I follow your logic ( which I don't agree with) then the bar and the workers in the bar would be liable as well. I mean come on they are serving the liquor they are pouring somone drink after drink and not taking the person's keys and calling them a cab. We have to draw the line somewhere at some point at the level of accepting personal responsibilty. These men knew the risks that were outlined in the contract, they accepted those risks, they chose to get drunk, they chose to ride on the upper level and stand on that bus. This is a terrible situation for everyone and I agree 100% with what BlackBird wrote. "

lydle6 wrote on Oct 14, 2009 1:17 PM:

" Clearly most of the people commenting did not even take the time to read the article. These comments are so ridiculous.

Do you people have nothing better to do? He was a friend of mine. I know almost everyone there that day and as it clearly states, the two boys were NOT standing. Many young people saw something terrible that they will never be able to forget.
Drinking or not, this is a tragedy. I mean really, do you people hear yourself? Cameron isnt a big drinker. He very well may have been sober; does that stir up more sympathy from you?
There was a difference of LESS THAN 5 INCHES between the top rail of the bus and the clearance of the overpass. The bus should have not gone under such an overpass. Common sense.
The Chana's are good people, theyre not money hungry. They have started a foundation that donates to organ donation for Cam because with his death he saved many many lives. I would be willing to bet that any money won would go towards this cause. They originally werent going to sue, but they were urged to so that this would never happen to anyone else's child.

This could be you or someone you love. Please have the decency to be respectful. The friends and family of these boys will undoubtedly read this article and go on to the comments. Do unto others. "

~STRANGER~ wrote on Oct 14, 2009 1:18 PM:

" One thing's for certain,somebody is gonna get paid,and it ain't gonna be none of us. "

Danny Boy wrote on Oct 14, 2009 2:45 PM:

" Hey Hammbone , hows that frequency finder working?....can you still listen in on cell phones?..... "

bcdbaker wrote on Oct 14, 2009 2:51 PM:

" As to Townie2 Comments. Just being a property owner doesnt make you liable. One would have to prove the company/bus driver was negligent. Was the chaperone contract enough? Was that contract void when the alternate route was taken? Well thats for the courts to decide. If indeed it goes to court.

Not sure if the New County Road was open at Coles Station going East. That would have been the course to take without any overpasses, and a stop at McDonalds in Charleston. Hind Sight is 20/20. "

smilininonu2 wrote on Oct 14, 2009 3:04 PM:

" HeinekenMan, There WAS enough clearance! That bus had gone to Mattoon (via route 16 under the I57 bridge) many times for parades and such, WITH PEOPLE ON TOP without incident. "

OldSkool wrote on Oct 14, 2009 3:15 PM:

" Not going to rehash words on here, but I'm sure most "parents" would do the same thing (lawsuit) if this happened to their child. I think some of the loudmouths on here should have more respect for the grieving families. You better hope karma doesn't come back and bite you in the..... "

jgtc reader wrote on Oct 14, 2009 5:17 PM:

" I think everyone needs to stop being so rude and think of the big picture here: two families are without their sons due to an ACCIDENT. It wouldn't be called an ACCIDENT if it wasn't one. Im not saying the families are right or wrong for filing a lawsuit but jeez people look at how inconsiderate and heartless some of you are being. Two young people are dead now, everyone on the bus witnessed a horrific sight and this probably could have been prevented but it happened and everyone should realize it could have happened to your son-would you still be saying the same thing if you knew them personally or were related to them...I doubt it. "

hector19 wrote on Oct 14, 2009 7:06 PM:

" How many of you know John . I have known him since i was an early teen and was friends with his daughter I know first hand when John says do something to do it . He is one of the best men I have ever got to meet . He does alot with the Veterans and other organizations . I know this is tearing up John and his wife very much . SO I hope all goes well for everyone involved . Maybe if the familys do get money they donate it to a good charity "

lefty wrote on Oct 14, 2009 7:27 PM:

" Have any of your read the full police reports? Just curious. "

dc wrote on Oct 14, 2009 11:26 PM:

" Peter_Venkman

I realize that. Thats my point The two guys on the bus were unfortunate victims of major incompitance. They went out had a good time and hired a driver to get them home safe and well you know the rest. Horrible! "

lemons89 wrote on Oct 15, 2009 12:06 AM:

" Wow some of these comments are extremely rude and inconsiderate. Perhaps people should actually read the article and get some facts straight. They did the right thing and hired a sober driver. Semi trucks have hit that over pass many times before, therefore if you live around here, it would be common sense not to drive under the over pass. The company is negligent for not training their employee well enough and should be held accountable.

In response to devilishangel61401--yes the families of your friends who were killed could have sued the bar and bar tender that the drunk driver was drinking at, as long as they could prove he was given too many drinks.

No, a lawsuit won't bring the two men back, but it will hopefully create a law that will keep this from happening to others. "

HeinekenMan wrote on Oct 15, 2009 5:21 AM:

" smilininonu2 wrote on Oct 14, 2009 3:04 PM:
" HeinekenMan, There WAS enough clearance! That bus had gone to Mattoon (via route 16 under the I57 bridge) many times for parades and such, WITH PEOPLE ON TOP without incident. "

I think you've been overruled. If there was enough clearance, then why are two young men dead? That's like saying a vehicle that exploded without warning was safe because it hadn't exploded in the two years prior. "

~STRANGER~ wrote on Oct 15, 2009 6:41 AM:

" Lemons 89, What? You want a law made so drunk dumba@@es will obey Stay seated while on the bus commands?
It was neglect not only on the students but their parents for not teaching them how to mind.
BTW the sympathy thread has alredy ran it's course on here. "

Harry Potter wrote on Oct 15, 2009 8:09 AM:

" Have any of your read the full police reports? Just curious. "

Good one Lefty!

But just like every other time a legal question has come up, the corn field scholars are ready to pounce on it based on brief newspaper reports and small town gossip. "

Big T wrote on Oct 15, 2009 11:00 AM:

" Hector19-I too have the priviledge of calling John a friend. He is a fine man, giving of himself in so many organizations, to make this world a better place for us all. I have no doubt that he is forever affected by this tragic accident, but it was after all, an accident. The series of bad decisions made that day, have led to two lives being cut short. Is any one person or company to blame, I don't think so, but that will be for the court to decide. "

Gucci wrote on Oct 15, 2009 11:40 AM:

" Very sad for everyone!! The people who died, the families, the people on the bus, driver and people who were in passing. What is and will be done so that it never happens again to anyone? Instead of pointing a finger at everyone - what will be done? "

slap63 wrote on Oct 15, 2009 12:34 PM:

" Stranger: They need to edit all of your rude and stupid remarks. I get so tired of reading the stupidity from you.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lemons89 wrote:
No, a lawsuit won't bring the two men back, but it will hopefully create a law that will keep this from happening to others. "

I think if that is what is wanted they need to go to the lawmakers not the Judge.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Lydle6 wrote: They originally werent going to sue, but they were urged to so that this would never happen to anyone else's child.

Well, of course they were urged to, more than likely by a lawyer that thought they could make some money.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I would like to know that if these men did not stand up then why are they the only two that suffered injuries? 6 inches of clearance isn't very much. I don't know if drinking caused this accident or not. It was a terrible accident. But really, was it anyones "fault" or was it just an accident? A lawsuit for a lesson. I don't think that is the way to go. If you want to keep this from happening again then do something other than suing someone. Go to someone other than a lawyer. I am not trying to be rude, that would be stranger's job. I just think that suing is not the way to go. Unless... it is out and out clear negligence on someone's part. Then they should pay. Medical bills and any other compensation. "

Clementine wrote on Oct 15, 2009 1:38 PM:

" Wow. Two young people have died. Whether they were drinking, standing, or whatever, this is still a great tragedy. Lots of young people drink, lots of older people drink, we all make bad decisions and unfortunately we sometimes make tragic choices.

These two men are dead. The other people on that bus have witnessed something horrible. And that poor bus driver will have to live with what happened that day for the rest of his life - and that is not meant as a judgment, I don't know his culpability, I simply know that it must be a burden on him and I figure he must question his own actions every day. No one here got off scot-free, and those two poor boys and their families and friends paying the ultimate sacrifice.

I am not personally up on all of the facts about the case, so I can't speak specifically about whether the families should sue. However, I am more inclined not to sue. I believe we are far too litigious in this country and that sometimes we sue when things were accidents, plain and simple, and unfortunately accidents do happen.

There is a place for lawsuits, when something is intentional or if change must be made. But I also believe in personal responsibility.

But again, I don't know all of the facts in this case, so I am not saying this particular case is right or wrong.

I just dislike seeing the word "fools" used or criticism (slight though it might be) of these two young men, maybe that's just me, having made many mistakes myself that, but for the grace of God, or luck, I guess, fortunately for me were not tragic. These boys were not so lucky.

Obviously no one intended - or wanted - this to happen.

My heartfelt sympathy to the families. I've had a similar loss and I know how it feels. "

~STRANGER~ wrote on Oct 15, 2009 3:27 PM:

" slap just glide right on past my post if you don't like it.Isn't that what you tell everybody else? "

slap63 wrote on Oct 15, 2009 3:53 PM:

" Stranger wrote: " slap just glide right on past my post if you don't like it.Isn't that what you tell everybody else? "

Actually Stranger, I have never told anyone to glide right on my post. I have no idea where you got that. Care to be specific?
I really don't think your posts are credible. And your wrong. The sympathy thread has NOT ran its course. Most of us do have sympathy for the families and the bus driver. Some of just do not agree with the lawsuit. The sympathy is there. Only cold hearted jerks have no sympathy. "

~STRANGER~ wrote on Oct 15, 2009 4:20 PM:

" Slap, I find it real hard to have any sympathy for people who get liquored up and disregard rules,common sense,Like I said if you don't like my post,don't read them,if you don't like that, then type an e-mail up to the front desk and have me barred from this website.Sorry about ya. "

gradgirl wrote on Oct 15, 2009 5:47 PM:

" It is tragic what happened, but I hope the families do not get one cent. These "kids" were adults and should be responsible for their own actions. The families should realize this and quit trying to make money off of this tragedy. "

devilishangel61401 wrote on Oct 15, 2009 6:39 PM:

" I do apologize if I came across as insensetive because this is sad for everyone involved. But rather than a lawsuit why not work with the IDOT to raise the clearance on that bridge, the company who leases the bus, the drivers of said bus etc etc to ensure this never never happens again!!! Lemon I was really just putting it out there to Townie that the family of my freinds who were killed by a drunk driver could have sued the bar etc, if they had it most likely would have gotten tossed out of court. The family never sued anyone, they just made sure to testify about their son and daughter who lost their lives due to the drunk driver so he'd go to jail. The defense's lawyer said their client was ready to pay restitution my friends parents told him to donate any money to Mothers Against Drunk Driving and ask that the judge set the amount of money to be donated. This all happend my senior year of high school so the world still was not quiet so "lawsuit happy". "

lemons89 wrote on Oct 15, 2009 9:33 PM:

" devilishangel61401--My bad, I took your comment the wrong way. I give your friends' parents props for donating all of the money. Perhaps these parents will do the same if the lawsuit continues and they win.
stranger--Think before you make a comment. Obviously I don't want that type of law made. Perhaps a law that sets a standard height for all overpasses would be nice. Then something like this won't happen again. "

slap63 wrote on Oct 15, 2009 10:23 PM:

" Stranger wrote: " Slap, I find it real hard to have any sympathy for people who get liquored up and disregard rules,common sense,Like I said if you don't like my post,don't read them,if you don't like that, then type an e-mail up to the front desk and have me barred from this website. Sorry about ya. "

Its not the 2 people who lost their lives that the sympathy is for. I think that we both agree against the lawsuit stranger, and I agree to disagree with you about who is at fault. Honestly, I don't know. I am thinking the two that died but I wasn't there to know what happened. Who is to say it wouldn't have happened if they hadn't been drinking? Possibly the fault lies on both sides. I don't think a double decker bus should be used for a traveling party. There are many things that could have gone wrong. But I hardly think its the parents fault.

Your right stranger, I don't have to read your posts and you don't have to read mine. Writing the desk and having you barred? Your over reacting a bit aren't you? I think you may be a bit dramatic. (As if I couldn't tell that by your posts) Sorry about YA! "

~STRANGER~ wrote on Oct 16, 2009 10:17 AM:

" Doubtful if that dbl decker bus ever hits a public hiway again anyway. "

Mama says wrote on Oct 18, 2009 2:41 AM:

" I wondered if they stood on the seats?
I hadn't heard all the details, so I do not know and haven't been reading much on it in paper.
Just wondering. "

critic wrote on Oct 18, 2009 6:55 PM:

" How American!

Sorry for your loss but are you serious??? Shame on your for looking to blame someone else for this than those truly responsible!

Here's an idea... how about the company file a lawsuit against the parents for their children who endangered the lives of everyone else on board that bus??? Or how about they file a lawsuit against the bar(s) they were at for serving them drinks, or how about the beverage companies? And why stop there... go for the state while you're at it for making that overpass too low! For god's sake don't take any responsibility for yourself or for your childrens' mistakes. That would only be illogical.

Any sympathy I did have is now long gone! "

gradgirl wrote on Oct 19, 2009 2:39 PM:

" I agree critic. I think the company should counter sue the families for disorderly conduct and endangering the lives of the driver and other patrons on board.
This lawsuit is ridiculous! "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 19, 2009 11:23 PM:

" hahvahd wrote on Oct 14, 2009 11:10 AM:
" If the company wanted to travel safely with the double decker, they could have bypassed the overpass altogether by taking Old State Rd. to Lerna Rd. and then reconnecting with Rt. 16. Or I believe one of the attorneys pointed out that the overpass on Dewitt East has a higher clearance. "

Unlike most here I can admit when I was wrong. The latest I was told was they originally were to take Old State Rd. and not Rt. 16. The passengers instructed the driver to take them to McDonald's on Rt. 16. Either way, the clearance was adequate if the passengers were abiding by the law and sitting. "

My10Cents wrote on Oct 21, 2009 4:47 AM:

" What in the world was a bus company doing hireing out an open top bus for the open road? I don't understand this. Say THIS accident didn't happen. What if a semi broadsided that bus. How many would have been thrown out? What if for some reason that bus hit something or something hit it and it rolled. How many hurt then? The possibilities are endless.

Ya know if that bus had turned south after they left McDonalds, they could have went to the Old State Road, drove to the Lerna road, then turned North, drove to Route 16, then east to Charleston. No horriffic accident. All buses and semis should avoid those overpasses. The state should do something about them, although it would be an engineers nightmare.

Those buses are made to tour CITIES. There should be a law against them being on the open road. It's just stupid! I pray for everyone concerned. Such a tragic thing to happen. "