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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Lee Enterprises

Wednesday, September 23, 2009 8:41 PM CDT
LETTER: Health care reform starts with providers

TONYA ETNIRE, Charleston

There are two sides to the health care reform debate, one side would lead our country into a system in which the government would control access to and set payments for all health care.

Our country can accomplish what’s needed to reform the system without establishing a government-run plan.

In the letter from Catherine Key, the example of the uninsured emergency room visit being passed to taxpayers was given. Let’s say the uninsured has acquired a $2,500 bill and is insured with government health care. Who will be responsible for the remainder of the bill when the government plan only pays a low percentage of the total charge (like Medicare)? The patient? Taxpayers? Private insurers would be forced to pay higher provider reimbursement rates to make up for the low government rates, your premiums go up again.

Keep in mind this bill would be inflated due to the provider charging $2,500 for an all inclusive visit, which consists of $40 doses of Tylenol, blood pressure and temperature readings, and possibly some random blood work.

Insurance premiums have raised because provider rates are grossly inflated and employers have opted to pay less of the premium than they previously have.

I agree, the country must get health care costs under control and ensure that all Americans have access to quality, affordable health care. However, it is critical that the reform start with the providers and their ridiculous prices.

TONYA ETNIRE

Charleston

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Harry Potter wrote on Sep 22, 2009 7:24 AM:

" So Tonya, are you saying it's wrong for a health care system that allows hospitals to charge 15 dollars for a tube of toothpaste and literally hundreds of dollars for a single pill is wrong? Don't you know the current system is fine and the Republicans are saying our president is somehow evil for trying to correct this sort of thing? Remember when the Republicans defended the tobacco industry? The same thing is happening now, and it's even worse. "

Jim1969 wrote on Sep 22, 2009 10:27 AM:

" Regardless of who pays the premium the cost of health insurance has gone through the roof.

Only part of the reason is the rates providers charge, which ironically is due in no small part to the insurance companies. Another chunk of providers rates being high is due to the uninsured. In some ways it is a lot like shoplifting in retail. In the end everyone else pays through higher prices.

Not only are the doctors paid through the fees charged but so are the nurses, receptionists, janitors, the utilities, the administration, billing clerks, etc.

Another part is because of what is considered "profit". It is not good enough to make 1 million last year in profit and 1 million this year in profit. In order to be considered profitable you have to make more than you did last year. "

just wondering wrote on Sep 23, 2009 10:02 AM:

" There definitely needs to be health care reform, but this bill is not the one to do it with. If this plan is so great why is the president, congress, and their families exempt from it? One factor that would be helpful would be tort reform. But since 95% of the money donated by the trial lawyers goes to the Democratic Party, that isn't going to happen. Everyone keeps blaming the Republicans for this, but the Democrats have control of both houses and still can't get it pushed through. "

coonbug wrote on Sep 23, 2009 11:44 AM:

" "There are two sides to the health care reform debate, one side would lead our country into a system in which the government would control access to and set payments for all health care."

Would you kindly provide PROOF of this so called government CONTROLLING of access and setting payments for ALL health care?????

It appears the only way you people can fight is by lying.

Watch more of Fox, I'm sure with their producers CHEERING the HATE government rallies on -- will give you even more of a fright.

http://coonsey.wordpress.com/2009/09/21/4112/#respond "

Becky wrote on Sep 23, 2009 12:53 PM:

" Just Wondering said: "One factor that would be helpful would be tort reform."

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/21/opinion/21HERB.html

It may be hard to understand why `tort reform' is even on the national agenda at a time when insurance industry profits are booming, tort filings are declining, only 2 percent of injured people sue for compensation, punitive damages are rarely awarded, liability insurance costs for businesses are minuscule, medical malpractice insurance and claims are both less than 1 percent of all health care costs in America, and premium-gouging underwriting practices of the insurance industry have been widely exposed."

Malpractice suits are a rarety anymore and when one is taken out, it's the victim that gets hastled and not the physician at fault. Tort reform has been achieved in many states and yet, none of the insurance companies lowered their rates. Even in malpractice insurance!!! So tort reform is our smallest of worries right now. "

just wondering wrote on Sep 23, 2009 5:55 PM:

" Liability insurance costs are low? Some hospitals are claiming they pay one million dollars a year for liability insurance. Those costs may be low in your neighborhood, but not for most people. "

XTownie wrote on Sep 24, 2009 12:26 AM:

" Harry, they not only charge you the $15 for toothpaste but they won't let you bring in your own so you're forced to pay that $15 for a trial sized tube. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 24, 2009 6:19 AM:

" Good job in shooting down the often used red herring of tort reform, Becky. I see you get it. Unfortunately this ruse is still being used by some in their effort to simplify the heath care argument. Another one is saying state sponsored insurance won't work. It's funny how all those countries having government insurance out rank the US in every health category. As has been reported by many on this site, we rank 37th or 38th in health care in the world and are well behind those countries with socialized medicine. One notorious so called news network keeps dragging out people from Canada and England with their health care horror stories. I'm sure they couldn't find a single American with a similar story. I've seen incidents right here in Coles county that rival anything I've seen on Fox. "

just wondering wrote on Sep 24, 2009 10:27 AM:

" Harry as I said to Becky, if you don't think hospitals being forced to pay a million dollars a year for liability insurance isn't a factor, then you really are living in a liberal fantasy land. "

father bob wrote on Sep 24, 2009 11:19 AM:

" the highest prices are charged to those who have no insurance.

insurance companies have set rates they pay. that's one of the stipulations when a doctor or hospital joins a network. they can only charge up to an agreed upon set amount for any procedure. the trade-off for the doctor is the "in network" referrals. most insurance companies will set coverage limits or higher deductible and copay amounts for things like MRIs or CT scans etc. the insurance companies have also set a maximum lifetime benefit on all their policies just in the past couple of years. so all in all it's all back on the little guy to pay the price.

healthcare for everyone is the only answer. "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 24, 2009 6:23 PM:

" I have to ask you a question Mr President? Please none of your rhetoric, just truth for a change! Can you handle that?
I just saw a special report on foreign aid to rich nations! Please explain to me why we are giving billions of dollars in foreign aide to Venezula, Cuba, Iran, Russia and the oil rich Arab nations? Why? The government spokesman admitted that ninety per cent of those programs ever produced anything and didn't work, but yet year after year we just borrow the money, and write them a check on our grandchildren's future. How about us taking those hundreds of billions of dollars each year and applying it to a hurting America! I mean the working class ,small business America, not the big corporations, the unions, the lobbies but for working American. Many people say that you are just inexperienced and naive but I disagree, I think that you have a very motivated agenda that is bad for America. You have succeeded in awakening a sleeping America and all eyes are on you,your ties and the policies that come from that union! I don't just want to see the czars vetted, I want them gone and the Cabinet positions that operate under Congressional checks and bounds hired. "

Amber wrote on Sep 24, 2009 8:54 PM:

" Copy & paste--Copy & paste--Copy & paste--lol "

father bob wrote on Sep 25, 2009 9:58 AM:

" Amber wrote on Sep 24, 2009 8:54 PM:
" Copy & paste--Copy & paste--Copy & paste--lol """"

LMAO!!!....good one Amber! "

Becky wrote on Sep 25, 2009 10:20 AM:

" Amber wrote on Sep 24, 2009 8:54 PM:

" Copy & paste--Copy & paste--Copy & paste--lol

Why is it so funny that people copy and paste documented information by educated and informed experts to clarify their position on an issue? It's called researching facts in order to make educated decisions on important issues and sharing that information to others why may want to know where you got it. Sitting at a computer and spewing views and comments by people who haven't a clue as to what they are talking about is what's "lol". "

Becky wrote on Sep 25, 2009 1:02 PM:

" Actually Cedric, Bush woke up America to big government control. That's why America voted in the candidate for "change". So far, the only things that's changed is, well, NOTHING!!! Now not only has America woken up but that hungry bear is really, really pi$$ed!!! I say...GOOD!!! "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 25, 2009 7:45 PM:

" Oh my, new polls are showing a shift in the public's attitude over health care reform. Add that to the fact that 70 percent of the nations doctors now say they want a public option. All the chest beating over at Fox isn't working as well as they claim it is. Maybe they need to organize another of their tea party's. "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 25, 2009 8:14 PM:

" " Actually Cedric, Bush woke up America to big government control. That's why America voted in the candidate for "change". So far, the only things that's changed is, well, NOTHING!!! Now not only has America woken up but that hungry bear is really, really pi$$ed!!! I say...GOOD!!! "

I don't even let Amber bother me. You see, He just got off the short bus he rides every day!!LMAO "

Bps wrote on Sep 26, 2009 12:05 PM:

" Becky wrote on Sep 25, 2009 1:02 PM:
" Bush woke up America to big government control. That's why America voted in the candidate for "change". So far, the only things that's changed is, well, NOTHING!!! Now not only has America woken up but that hungry bear is really, really pi$$ed!!! I say...GOOD!!! "
----------
Good points Becky.

The original movement started to become focused during Ross Perots 1992 run for President. Almost 20% voted for him and it ended up giving Clinton the White house over Bush Sr.

Additionally, several of the congressional crooks from both parties chose to retire that year instead of run for election.

You saw it again in the 1994, when the Dummy-crats lost both the house and the senate because of their blunders and abuse of the people. It was the same thing in 2006, when the people became feed up with the Rep-a-clowns doing the same things and threw them out of control of Congress.

In the last primary election when an unknown and untested Obama won over the supposed shoe-in Clinton, it was the people rejecting politics as normal for a new face and voice.

After Bushs losey performance it was a given that whoever the dummy-crats ran for president would win and so Obama did.

Unfortunately as with all the other tries to throw the bums out, all we got was another even worse set of bums.

If we hold to form, the 2010 midterms will again see the people trying to throw the bums out again.

One thing is for sure, we are better off having the power in Washington split between the two goofball parties as opposed to being in one party's hands, they at least get slowed down fighting among themselves. "

lefty wrote on Sep 26, 2009 1:38 PM:

" So CEDRIC666, do people who ride the "short bus" deserve disrespect?

Classy. Racism and elitism. Way to pick low hanging fruit.

Pick on folks who don't cause you any harm. But that would imply you can think beyond a 2nd grade level, and use something other than playground taunts. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 26, 2009 3:44 PM:

" For the Palin fans:

Letterman's Top Ten Questions To Ask Yourself Before Spending $63,500 On Dinner With Sarah Palin

10."Is the tip included?" 9."Do my kids really need to go to college?" 8."Is it 'All the Moose You Can Eat'?" 7."Should I prepare by reading every magazine and newspaper?" 6."Does it have to be at the Denny's where Todd works?" 5."Should we have dinner in Alaska or Russia?" 4."Will she hunt and shoot the main course?" 3."63 grand? That's nearly half of her weekly wardrobe budget!" Remember that reference? 2."Is there valet parking for my snowmobile?" 1."Will I be done in time to get to the 'Fire Dave' rally?" "

warrior wrote on Sep 26, 2009 7:13 PM:

" No Harry thats not what she is saying. Now if you and the question can keep up with the discussion and you might learn something.
The private health care system has no control over what the hospitals charge for their items, and if you want to pay $15 for a tube of toothpaste, then you won't be able to afford the internet much longer and we won't have to read your ignorant post anymore. The hospitals have raised their rates 80% in the last 10 years to make up for the illegals (that your little dummycrats have let come over here ans stay) that walk into a hospital to get a $10,000 procedure done, then walk out without paying, thus leaving the hospital to raise their rates, which also means health insurance companies raise their rates.
What Barrack (your president) is trying to control is that every American has to have insurance or be fined each year. Personally, if I want to get health insurance then I will and I sure won't have some corrupt government agency telling me what I have to do.
We have already seen what the government has done to Social Security (you know the program where all of us Americans pay into each week on our paychecks so we will have some money when we retire) , but thats almost bankrupt because our greedy little government officials (who don't contribute squat) have raked it clean. Then we have medicare, that those same government officials have put their greedy little fingers in and have practically bankrupted it. Now people like Harry and the question won't yet another government program to be run by our elected officials so they can put their greedy little hands in it, all the while making the hospitals and doctors wait for their paychecks each month as they rob from some other budget.
Remember, the government is not out to make money like small business's because all their money comes from us.
Also Harry unlike you and the question I don't need a free handout from our government, like link cards, medicaid, etc. But apparently people like you and the question do. So you will be one of the many who will live in a government housing building (next to other welfare recipients) waiting on your welfare, link card and the $400 a month the government gives you to live on, Good Luck harry and hopefully your new apartment will come without internet service. "

Ilovebilloreilly wrote on Sep 26, 2009 7:24 PM:

" You should all take the time you spend posting to educate yourselves on the insurance industry. Providers have not raised their rates due to insurance premiums, how ridiculous is that? They have raised their rates because THEY CAN and there's nothing anyone can do about it. Insurance premiums have went up because your providers are charging for services not rendered, services that could have been avoided and inflated rates. You all need to understand that the coverage you have is determined by your employer, they decide what is paid and what isn't. All those procedures that "insurance won't cover" is because your employer has elected to not cover it. So premiums have went up, so has cable, gas, food and electricity. It's not as if insurance carriers collect premiums and never pay out. You get your claims paid, don't you? I would prefer the government refrain from making any kind of decision for me. They need to stick to doing what they do best, vacationing, cheating on their wives and spending taxpayer money on things that just don't matter.
Before you know it we will all be government employees with government healthcare, government cars, government housing. "

Cognitus wrote on Sep 26, 2009 10:26 PM:

" just wondering:" One factor that would be helpful would be tort reform."

Those who want tort reform do not realize that malpractice REALLY HAPPENS
and when it does, those injured are due compensation -- just like people who are injured in an auto accident.

Here in Denver, one of the largest hospitals allowed a group of orthopedic surgeons to set up their separate practice and do all the "joints" for the large hospital.
The state at first inspection tried to impose rules correcting their errors in the practice of medicine, but the doctors ignored them.
They gave a young woman an overdose of the wrong medication and she went into shock. The doctors called on the experts from the larger hospital to resuscitate her -- but .. hmm the route between surgeries was limited to the first floor and the large hospital could not bail them out. The new hospital then -- imagine this, a practice of MDs who could not perform resuscitation -- AND THEY CALLED 911 to take care of the matter!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So, too late, after having only 390 patients, with one dead and one left with greatly impaired abilities, the state shut them down.

And you jerks who scream "tort reform" think that ... well "it was just one of those things -- T S".

I believe someone should PAY. Someone should pay for the child of the young woman that has to be raised by a husband while trying to make a living; someone should PAY for the care of the patient who is so impaired she requires constant supervision and care.

I would not be sorry if you were a victim just to see if you STILL believed in "tort reform". "

Cognitus wrote on Sep 26, 2009 10:29 PM:

" Becky:"medical malpractice insurance and claims are both less than 1 percent of all health care costs in America"

Indeed. AND a study published only last week in the Washington Post states that only 40 cents of every dollar is spent to compensate the victim; the other 60 cents is spent by the companies hiring lawyers TO AVOID PAYING FOR THE DAMAGE. "

Cognitus wrote on Sep 26, 2009 10:32 PM:

" JUST WONDERING:"Liability insurance costs are low? Some hospitals are claiming they pay one million dollars a year for liability insurance. Those costs may be low in your neighborhood, but not for most people. "

You missed the point completely. It may be true that SOME hospitals pay $1 million -- BUT what percentage is that of their annual income? "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 27, 2009 2:06 PM:

" lefty wrote on Sep 26, 2009 1:38 PM:

" So CEDRIC666, do people who ride the "short bus" deserve disrespect?

Classy. Racism and elitism. Way to pick low hanging fruit.

Pick on folks who don't cause you any harm. But that would imply you can think beyond a 2nd grade level, and use something other than playground taunts. "

How about you? I'm sure Amber would let you ride also, so you won't feel left out!!! "

Mama says wrote on Sep 27, 2009 4:24 PM:

" I didn't know when put in hospital for observation, medicare/medicaid not pay for your medication so take yours along from home, hairbrush, and things might need altho be locked up in a locker and not the one in room with you either.
I lucked out and had taken mine to the ER. We will all be packing a suitcase just for overnight stays, and don't forget houseshoes or socks or charged for those. A womans personal pad was $2.00 each, which are a necessity at times. At home used a body wipe, I never asked what those cost.
THE JOYS OF GROWING OLD book be nice. "

Cognitus wrote on Sep 27, 2009 10:10 PM:

" Cedric66:" I have to ask you a question Mr President? Please none of your rhetoric, just truth for a change! Can you handle that?
I just saw a special report on foreign aid to rich nations! Please explain to me why we are giving billions of dollars in foreign aide to Venezula, Cuba, Iran, Russia and the oil rich Arab nations? Why?

Well YOU tell me why you didn't ask that question of George W Bush????
WHY didn't you ask it of Ronnie Reagan???

If you think this started with Obama,
you're Way Out in left field -- in fact, in the bleachers drinking beer. "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 27, 2009 10:40 PM:

" All Presidents in the past have done this before also!!
Obama is the Pres now (excuse me, i'm about to puke) that is why I addressed the facts toward him. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 28, 2009 6:47 AM:

" ...... Good Luck harry and hopefully your new apartment will come without internet service. "

Actually, I'm doing extremely well, warrior. Judging from your comments, you're not. Cheer up, things will get better for you if you turn off Fox news and go get yourself a job and quit whining. Bitterness will not help your situation. Thanks for your concern, though.

PS, it's too bad all of those illegal aliens flooding Coles county have caused the local hospital to charge such exorbanent prices. Glad no illegal aliens got into this country under Bush, Bush Sr and Reagan. They must have all sneaked in under Clinton and now Obama. lol! "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 28, 2009 7:49 AM:

" Like it or not, Obama is OUR president, warrior, but of course if you're one of those illegals, you know those that all got in under Obama and Clinton you're whining about, he may not be yours. Just like the ignorant little strutting Bush was OUR president. By the way, I believe it was Reagan who granted amnesty. Remember that? I could suggest a history book or two that might bring up to speed and the illegal immigrant situation. Apparently you lack a good understanding of that topic. "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 28, 2009 7:54 AM:

" Warrior do you like to eat? The reason I ask is that much of the food on your table is put there by those legal and illegal immigrants that you like to denigrate. If they are picking the crops, killing and processing the chickens to put on our tables then they should be entitled to health insurance and health care. Quite frankly from a purely selfish perspective which is the only one most on these pages have, it is in our best interest. We don't want unhealthy workers spreading disease to our food supply. Or at least I don't. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 28, 2009 8:36 AM:

" This is for our friend warrior, who no doubt will ignore my suggestion about reading a history book, and obviously like his fellow right wingers, gets all his ideas from the right wing fringe media.

.....The GOP candidates keep sparring over who's tougher on immigration. In this climate, dem is fightin' words to say your opponent supports "sanctuary" or "amnesty" for illegal immigrants.
But as Giuliani reminded his foes during the Jan. 5, 2008, Republican debate, none other than Ronald Reagan, the patron saint of modern-day conservatism, signed the very law that Republicans call amnesty.

Say it ain't so!

Sorry. It's so. In 1986, Reagan signed an immigration reform bill, the first in 20 years, that legalized the status for 1.7-million people.
St Petersburg Times-

Yes warrior, the same guy who set the precedent for massive government spending and shot the deficit out of control is the same guy who granted amnesty, which many historical scholars say opened the door to the problem we have now.

Massive spending and amnesty during the Reagan years is something his devotees fail to bring up when singing his praises. Reagan didn't walk his talk.

But with the "new" GOP intellectualism, science and scholarship are out the door. Their experts are the uneducated pundits like Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck who barely set foot in the door of any institution of higher learning, and who all together don't have enough college credits to make a single semester. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 28, 2009 11:04 AM:

" Regarding project 73, a new site being set up that is supposed to serve as a counterpart to the Huffington post:

Unlike the Huffington Post, where bloggers and writers are given almost complete freedom over their own content (the HuffPost editorial team ensures accuracy but does not dictate point of view), Odom is setting up a "news" site that he admits will tell only his "side" of the issues. And bloggers get paid only if the editorial team approves their posts. In other words, bloggers will get paid only when their articles are in agreement with the site's founder.
Huffington post-

Sort of makes me think of Fox news where the head honcho Roger Ailes sends down memos to his staff on how to work the Republican agenda into their real news reports. lol! "

father bob wrote on Sep 28, 2009 11:47 AM:

" cedric66 wrote on Sep 27, 2009 2:06 PM:
" lefty wrote on Sep 26, 2009 1:38 PM:

" So CEDRIC666, do people who ride the "short bus" deserve disrespect?

Classy. Racism and elitism. Way to pick low hanging fruit.""""

NAWWWWW!....this is too easy!! "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 28, 2009 3:25 PM:

" Liberals seek health-care access for illegals

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

IS the United states the only Country with health Care???????
We need to worry about our own citizens not the whole world.
If the citizens of other countries want health care insurance or coverage, let their country provide it. We should Bill the Government of every country for any medical expenses we provide for it's citizens and refuse care to any that do not pay.
__________________ "

The Question wrote on Sep 28, 2009 5:01 PM:

" Kenneth Hoagland of Nashville, Tenn., was put in jail for getting a cold.
Hoagland, previously bankrupted by a week-long stay in a hospital for his diabetes, was on a health insurance waiting period for a new job when what started as a cold landed him in a hospital for two days with a $1,200 tab. He could not pay, was afraid to miss work to show up in court, and was arrested on what's known as a "body attachment."
"They fingerprinted me, took my picture and asked some questions about my medical history," he said. "When the guy who tested (my blood sugar) asked me why I was there and I told him ... he said, 'I didn't know we did that in this country.' I told him, 'Until now, I didn't either.' "
The Tennessean reports that "Hoagland, 36, is one of the hundreds of thousands of Americans -- insured and uninsured -- facing collection suits, wage garnishments and, more rarely, trips to jail because of medical debt." "

father bob wrote on Sep 28, 2009 5:01 PM:

" cedric66 wrote on Sep 28, 2009 3:25 PM:
" Liberals seek health-care access for illegals """""

it's ok seedy.....the mothership will be here shortly, just stay calm. "

warrior wrote on Sep 28, 2009 8:55 PM:

" As usual Harry Potter missed the point. Harry, I wasn't talking about how well you are off right now, because right now we're in a government ran by democracy, not socialism.
Now keep up with me this time Harry and quit watching them communism stations like Communism Broadcasting Station (CBS), Now Broadcasting Communism (NBC) and Always Broadcasting Communism (ABC).
One can only hope the Government Housing building your socialist president gives you well have at least dial-up internet connection so you and I can continue this argument.
As far as illegal goes, maybe you should check your ancestry tree and see if your ancestors filled out the correct paperwork to be a citizen here in the USA.
AS far as history goes ole Harry ole buddy, I believe when the great Ronald Reagan was president there was only around 1 million illegals here. However when the Dummycrats took over the Congress in 2006 they decided the only votes they were ever going to get was to let the illegals come over in waves. Which now, according to your president who wants to give health care to these illegals, courteous of us taxpayers, comes to around 18 million (plus or minus a million).
So lets forget about history and go to math, is 1 million more than 18 million Harry.
Take your time to answer and if you need help counting, ask Father Bob, The Question or Humphreys for help. Good Day. "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 28, 2009 10:30 PM:

" But with the "new" GOP intellectualism, science and scholarship are out the door. Their experts are the uneducated pundits like Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck who barely set foot in the door of any institution of higher learning, and who all together don't have enough college credits to make a single semester. "

Seems to me that these "uneducated" idiots you are talking about are making tons of money doing what they do!
How much are you making Potter? Just what I thought. "JEALOUSY" "

what wrote on Sep 28, 2009 11:41 PM:

" 500 dollars a night for a bed in a little two bed room is dirt cheap for crying out loud, there's a 21 inch tv on the wall with cable so what's the beef? 20 dollars for two aspirins is a bargain considering we let you in here in the first place and 25 bucks for your little plastic potty pan thing is a regular steal, we are a not for profit organization after all. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 29, 2009 7:08 AM:

" Ya gotta love how the Reagan worshippers give him the credit for anything that happened on his watch, but blame the Dems for anything negative that occurred during his reign. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 29, 2009 8:20 AM:

" AS far as history goes ole Harry ole buddy, I believe when the great Ronald Reagan was president there was only around 1 million illegals here.

One million? So I guess he must have imported quite a few, after all he granted AMNESTY to almost two million illegals.

Given your obvious lack of understanding of American history, I can see why you would say forget it, because apparently you have.

Perhaps you might benefit from a remedial course in both math and history. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 29, 2009 8:42 AM:

" Thanks for your concern, seedy. I'm doing just fine. After 8 years of mismanagement of government by a Republican administration, I'm better off than many of my fellow citizens. Judging from you anger, you're not.

You're right about those Fox talking heads making tons of money too. Bush's taking the economy south caused a lot of anger and frustration out there and Fox, in addition to fomenting more, has capitalized on it with their agitating pundits and corporate sponsored "tea" parties.

I'm sure you're familiar with P.T. Barnum's oft quoted comment on suckers. When it comes to the tactics of Fox news and right wing pundits, it was never more true.

You should take the time to look at the demographics of the right wing punditry audience. Judging from the anger and bitterness you display, I think you fit right in. "

warrior wrote on Sep 29, 2009 8:43 AM:

" Yep, just like you gotta love them people who depend on the Government to run their lives no matter how stupidly its being ran. "

The Question wrote on Sep 29, 2009 8:57 AM:

" Remember when Ronald Reagan said his amnesty for three million illegal aliens would be the very last one, and then they'd get serious about U.S. border security? I bought it.
Boy, was I a sap. Reagan was lying.
Thanks to that 1986 amnesty, instead of three million illegal aliens, the U.S. now has some 11 to 20 million.
Both parties are compromised on this issue. Democrats are looking to tap a vast new pool of voters. The Republicans and their CEO pals are looking for a flood of cheap labor that will continue to erode the American middle class, transforming the U.S. into a land of permanent wage slavery and subsistence income.
Americans who are only a paycheck away from hunger will do whatever you want them to and keep their mouths shut, and that's just the way U.S. corporations like them. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 29, 2009 1:41 PM:

" Yep, just like you gotta love them people who depend on the Government to run their lives no matter how stupidly its being ran. "

Still thinking of the Bush years, huh? lol!

Here's a quiz for you: Which president had the most members of his administration forced to leave over scandal than any other president in history?

Give up?

Here's a hint: he's also the only president who had to use index cards and a seating chart to help him remember the names of his cabinet members.

Still stumped? he also had his wife obtain astrological charts for making decisions.

Last hint: he set record setting budgets and likes to claim credit for the fall of the USSR, even though most historians say it was Gorbachev who accomplished that by introducing the concept of the free market into the Soviet bloc nations.

Knowing your aversion to history, I thought I would help you out, my friend. No thanks are necessary, as I enjoy enlightening the uneducated when even I can. "

The Question wrote on Sep 29, 2009 5:45 PM:

" Mississippi and Alabama top the nation in obesity. So we know a few things about the red state Fox News audience: they are aggressively ignorant, they are easily gulled, they are flag-waving bigots and they like to glide around Wal-Mart on those motorized carts for the monstrously fat. "

jrhendren wrote on Sep 29, 2009 11:54 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Sep 29, 2009 1:41 PM:
"Here's a quiz for you: Which president had the most members of his administration forced to leave over scandal than any other president in history?"

Bush W., no not him. Reagan, no he had several but still not right. Carter, no he called for all their resignations but only excepted five. Obama, no they quit before placed in position do to taxes. Oh wait I know.

President Clinton then after him Taylor.
"according to the LexisNexis database, more than 30 members of his administration were indicted for various illegal activities. Before he finished his second term in office, he had 10 of his original cabinet members resign and several of their replacements also resign....His non-cabinet senior leadership also saw a lot of turmoil. His chief of staff, Mack McLarty, was "encouraged" to leave the White House to allow for some controls and organization to be instilled. White House administrator David Watkins resigned after it was reveled he used a government chopper to go on a golf outing. White House counsel Bernard Nussbaum resigned amid the Whitewater scandal. Associate Attorney General Webster Hubbell was also a Whitewater victim. And, Surgeon General Jocelyn Elders finally packed it in after her criticized stance on abortion, drug legislation and sex education." - LexisNexis Media Copyright 2009

Although your clues sounded like Reagan except they do not go along with facts. Reagan had several, but not the numbers of former President Clinton. "

lefty wrote on Sep 30, 2009 1:10 AM:

" CEDRIC666, you're right, the right-wing talkers do make a ton of money. Saps like you are buying the overpriced Limbaugh Letter, the Bill O'Reilly loofah, and the "Im With Stupid" Glenn Beck shirt. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 30, 2009 10:36 AM:

" Nice try, jr. But I was talking about total leaving in disgrace, not necessarily indicted. Funny that you failed to mention that Reagan had 32 members of his staff indicted. Wanna do a profile on them too? Now get back and do your home work, and come back with the whole story and try not to put so much spin on your answer. I'm afraid that I have to take points off your score for a rather transparent act on your part. Being the liberal person I am I will give you another chance. lol! "

father bob wrote on Sep 30, 2009 10:40 AM:

" The Question wrote on Sep 29, 2009 5:45 PM:
" Mississippi and Alabama top the nation in obesity. So we know a few things about the red state Fox News audience: they are aggressively ignorant, they are easily gulled, they are flag-waving bigots and they like to glide around Wal-Mart on those motorized carts for the monstrously fat. """"

you forgot any mention of NASCAR and cracker barrel. "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 30, 2009 1:53 PM:

" Ronald Reagan- "We win they lose." Can this now be modified slightly to say, "We The People win Obama looses."

Obama's intelligence for me is in question. I do not believe he is very smart at all, crafty like a criminal, but not smart. Arrogant certainly, and with this he feels entitled to bring into his staff people with questionable character. No smart person would do this out in the open. He is bold enough to shove this in the face of Americans and now we see how, We The People are reacting. If we were able tar and feathers would be appropriate as he is driven from our white house. He continues to show his ineptness at every turn endangering our country just to enhance his image. Wow, have we ever had a president so taken with himself. He must so admire himself when peering into a mirror. Am I harsh or just honest? You be the judge. "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 30, 2009 2:28 PM:

" In the years that followed the Magna Carta, most of the world rejected the notion that kings rule by divine right. Obama acts as if he still subscribes to this theory, and as if he is the king.

It must have been by a perceived divine right that Obama named Steve Rattner to be car czar to oversee the government takeover of Chrysler and General Motors; there is certainly no authority in the Constitution for the President to take such action. Rattner, with the blessing of king Obama, set out to punish his king's opponents and reward his king's supporters. Of the 789 Chrysler dealers closed by Rattner, 788 had contributed exclusively to Republican candidates. Moreover, not one of a string of Chrysler dealerships owned by Obama supporters, Robert Johnson and Mack McClarty, was closed, but virtually all of the dealerships that competed with the Johnson-McClarty chain were closed. Chrysler president Jim Press said: "It really wasn't Chrysler's decision." Rattner resigned July 13 in the face of a multi-million dollar pay-for-play scandal in New York. "

father bob wrote on Sep 30, 2009 3:18 PM:

" hehehehe.....hey seedy! do you even have a clue as to what the Magna Carta was?

copy & paste, copy & paste "

The Question wrote on Sep 30, 2009 4:02 PM:

" Funny you should mention Magna Carta, Seedy.
It was your hero Bush who decided to trash one of the
founding principles of Western civilization: the writ
of habeas corpus established in the Magna Carta in
1215. Remember when Bush and Cheney decided to imprison people forever without due process or charges?
Why are so suddenly so concerned about Magna Carta now, after you applauded Bush wrecking its principles? "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 30, 2009 4:10 PM:

" copy & paste, copy & paste "

Can you really blame him for not crediting his cut and paste jobs, fb. After his 2:28 PM joke, who can blame him?

I think I ran across her favorite site: nutjobs.com

And of course her other favorite site is: White citizens against Obama.com "

lefty wrote on Sep 30, 2009 5:22 PM:

" Sure C666, you are against politicians acting as if they are our kings, UNLESS they're Republican. "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 1, 2009 12:26 AM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Sep 30, 2009 10:36 AM:
" Nice try, jr. But I was talking about total leaving in disgrace, not necessarily indicted. Funny that you failed to mention that Reagan had 32 members of his staff indicted. Wanna do a profile on them too? Now get back and do your home work, and come back with the whole story and try not to put so much spin on your answer. I'm afraid that I have to take points off your score for a rather transparent act on your part. Being the liberal person I am I will give you another chance. lol! "

Reagan and his staff did not leave in disgrace by any means. Reagan himself was also never impeached, or was held in contempt for lying to a grand jury. Though Reagan's administration did have its scandal, Iran-Contra, all Presidents have had some problem. Whether it was sex, money, or leaning on Constitutional issues. The fact remains, President Clinton had more scandals, including the childish act of taking all the "W"'s from keyboards, to some of his last minute pardons to campaign contributors. Then you have the fact that if Reagan was so bad how could he have won his elections as big as he did. Taking all but one state against Mondale. Now if you really want to get technical, by shear magnitude of the offenses that occurred you would have to include Harding and Tyler into the mix. Some of their offenses do not compare evenly. "

Harry Potter wrote on Oct 1, 2009 8:00 AM:

" The truth behind those allegations of widespread vandalism by the members of Clinton's staff:

"Now it seems those closely detailed stories were largely bunk. Last week it was revealed that a formal review by the General Accounting Office, Congress' investigative agency, "had found no damage to the offices of the White House's East or West Wings or EOB" and that Bush's own representatives had reported "there is no record of damage that may have been deliberately caused by the employees of the Clinton administration."
Salon-

Yeah, I remember those wild stories about all the "w"'s missing and things like desk drawers being glued shut as well as other examples of widespread vandalism. I also remember the claims of one disgruntled FBI agent saying Hillary covered the white White Christmas tree with phallic and pagan symbols and ornaments. It appears all of that was just made up stuff.

Clinton may have been a hound dog with the morals of an alley cat, but I would love to see us have another great economy like we had during his administration.

Thanks to Bush Sr pardoning of all those involved, will will never know the magnitude or the truth of the Iran/contra scandal.

The GOP fought and won in getting a special prosecutor involved with the Clinton sex scandal, but are screaming to high heaven over the idea investigating Bush and Cheney over a war that was sold on lies and misinformation. Now I ask you, which had the greater impact on our country?

When the history of this period is finally written, through the eyes of non partisan historians, I have no doubt that the Bush/Cheney administration won't fare too well. Personally, I think Cheney was far worse than the disgraced Spiro Agnew. Agnew got his payoffs in the delivery of bribes to the White House, while Cheney got his in the form of Halliburton stock options which grew daily with the Iraq war that Cheney personally cheer led. Cheney's involvement with Halliburton may have been legal, but there certainly are some ethical questions surrounding his actions. Halliburton and their fraudulent billing to the tax payers for billions of unearned services is another story.

I won't deny that Reagan was extremely popular, however I don't think his words were matched by meaningful results.

Clinton left office with high approval ratings too, and I will take the results of his administration over the lofty words of Reagan any day.

In closing, let me say that I agree with you that all administrations have had their share of scandals. "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 3, 2009 12:36 AM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Oct 1, 2009 8:00 AM:
"Clinton may have been a hound dog with the morals of an alley cat, but I would love to see us have another great economy like we had during his administration."

Question for you Harry. How's come Clinton's "great economy" was not inherited but Obama's "bad economy" was? I mean let's face logically if Obama'a having so much trouble with the economy because of what he inherited, then did Clinton inherit a good economy? Sounds a little like you are wanting your cake and to eat it too. It can't be yours when it's good and theirs when it is bad. I am not saying Clinton did not do some good, nor am I saying Bush did no bad. Just come on lets be fair here. As for the Clinton/Reagan comparing. I would hope we can both be fair and say they both had their fair share of problems and "scandals". As all Presidents have had, and will have. It called politics. Though some of the earlier Presidents, Harding/Tyler are still in a class of their own. "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 3, 2009 12:39 AM:

" " The Question wrote on Sep 29, 2009 5:45 PM:
" Mississippi and Alabama top the nation in obesity. So we know a few things about the red state Fox News audience: they are aggressively ignorant, they are easily gulled, they are flag-waving bigots and they like to glide around Wal-Mart on those motorized carts for the monstrously fat. """"

you forgot any mention of NASCAR and cracker barrel. "

Wow look at who the bigots and racist are now. "

Harry Potter wrote on Oct 4, 2009 10:21 AM:

" Though some of the earlier Presidents, Harding/Tyler are still in a class of their own. "

You make some good points, jr.

But don't forget Nixon. lol! "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 6, 2009 12:18 AM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Sep 29, 2009 8:42 AM:
"I'm sure you're familiar with P.T. Barnum's oft quoted comment on suckers."

Just a bit of Info I meant to tell you before. Though the quote is associated with Barnum their is no proof of him actually saying, "There's a sucker born every minute". In fact he thought quite a lot of his patrons. "

Harry Potter wrote on Oct 7, 2009 9:49 AM:

" Just a bit of Info I meant to tell you before. Though the quote is associated with Barnum their is no proof of him actually saying, "There's a sucker born every minute". In fact he thought quite a lot of his patrons. "

Turns out that you're right on that one, jr. Guess I got caught up in another urban legend, my friend.

I'm always willing to give credit when it's due, and I'll give you credit for catching that one. Good job! "