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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Lee Enterprises

Monday, September 14, 2009 9:34 PM CDT
LETTER: Government control not part of US tradition

By EVELYN LIVINGSTON, Toledo

It is time to speak up concerning the government plans for our health care and energy usage as well as spending the people’s money.

I am 80 years of age and have never before been frightened of the government of this great nation. This nation is great — built on independent people with a great Constitution.

We are a helpful people — when we hear of a disaster anywhere in the world we immediately react with people and money to help those in need. Our communities come together to help those suffering from major illness — we don’t wait for government handouts.

We have a high standard of living because we were willing to work and not to spend our wealth to create revolutions.

These czars are ready to destroy our country. Some are admitted Communists, radicals and like ilk. Obama said to judge him by those he surrounds himself with. The czars are not what I would hope to see.

Cap-and-trade is a huge money grab. All of us will be hurting trying to pay the astronomical energy bills. We can join the people of third world countries with our living standard. This health care bill will totally break the bank.

No matter how they tell us that health care will be so great there is simply no way it can be. Use your common sense people! Jesus told us that we will always have the poor with us. Most of the poor in this country would be considered wealthy in much of the world.

Please consider all the ramifications of all this government control.

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jrhendren wrote on Sep 14, 2009 11:15 PM:

" EVELYN get ready for a storm to come. To many out there either want a hand out now, or think the Government is smarter and can do it better. I believe like you in working for what you have and we know what's best for us. "

The Question wrote on Sep 15, 2009 6:33 AM:

" "No matter how they tell us that health care will be so great there is simply no way it can be. Use your common sense people!"
"Common sense." That's the American euphemism for "thundering ignorance."
When you have surgery, make sure it's not performed by some egghead physician with all that fancy book-learnin'. Just grab your beer buddy, give him a knife and tell him to use his common sense. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 15, 2009 9:51 AM:

" It's not about hand outs and government control, jr. It's about moving us up from a horrendous position of 37th in the world when it come to health care. This country leads the world in about every category, EXCEPT health care. Our standing in that area is disgraceful. Status quo is no longer acceptable to many Americans. "

Becky wrote on Sep 15, 2009 10:24 AM:

" "This health care bill will totally break the bank."

That's what Reagan said about medicare. So can we all assume that you don't use your medicare benefits Evelyn? "

All The Way wrote on Sep 15, 2009 10:46 AM:

" The Question wrote on Sep 15, 2009 6:33 AM:

" "No matter how they tell us that health care will be so great there is simply no way it can be. Use your common sense people!"
"Common sense." That's the American euphemism for "thundering ignorance."
When you have surgery, make sure it's not performed by some egghead physician with all that fancy book-learnin'. Just grab your beer buddy, give him a knife and tell him to use his common sense. "

You know, sometimes you actually make some sembelence of sense. Here, you just proved your own ignorance. "

father bob wrote on Sep 15, 2009 12:45 PM:

" EVELYN LIVINGSTON....thanks for the laugh. "

father bob wrote on Sep 15, 2009 12:46 PM:

" looks like someone needs to spend more time baking brownies and less time in front of Fox Noise. "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 15, 2009 1:26 PM:

" Evelyn did Jesus tell us to look the other way and let the poor starve or die for lack of medical care or a cup of water? OR did he tell us to look out for our neighbors because the least we do for them we do unto him? "

unknownjoe wrote on Sep 15, 2009 8:18 PM:

" Oh Bob, keep shuffling your race cards. You are the biggest racist in here. Can't wait to see the undercover Obamacorn video from the Chicago Office. I think they are gonna import underage hookers from Kentucky, they can run Jimmy Daleys casinos on the lake front and turn tricks for campaign contributions. Hey and Mrs. Blago can be the house madam. and Bob, you get a platinum visitors card for some of that Kentucky lovin. All for the small price of a campaign contribution. But wait! I hear the cards shuffling again. Race card in 3,2,1.... "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 15, 2009 11:50 PM:

" Have you noticed that conservative talk radio and TV hosts, including the top three of Rush, Hannity and Beck, are nice guys? Not only does nobody listen to the liberal hosts, but they're all a bunch of jerks. ROFLMAO "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 15, 2009 11:58 PM:

" unknownjoe wrote on Sep 15, 2009 8:18 PM:

" Oh Bob, keep shuffling your race cards. You are the biggest racist in here. Can't wait to see the undercover Obamacorn video from the Chicago Office. I think they are gonna import underage hookers from Kentucky, they can run Jimmy Daleys casinos on the lake front and turn tricks for campaign contributions. Hey and Mrs. Blago can be the house madam. and Bob, you get a platinum visitors card for some of that Kentucky lovin. All for the small price of a campaign contribution. But wait! I hear the cards shuffling again. Race card in 3,2,1.... "

They just busted another one in NY?
12 and 13 year olds this time. Them loonies are a piece of scum! "

jrhendren wrote on Sep 16, 2009 12:00 AM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Sep 15, 2009 9:51 AM:
" It's not about hand outs and government control, jr. It's about moving us up from a horrendous position of 37th in the world when it come to health care. This country leads the world in about every category, EXCEPT health care. Our standing in that area is disgraceful. Status quo is no longer acceptable to many Americans. "

True Harry, but I have worked with the public, and there are a lot who just want it given to them. They believe it is their right to have what they want. Just look around you. I believe you to have some age to yourself. So you can remember saving for things you wanted, not just putting it on credit. Heck, my Grandparents believed "credit" was dirty word. Now days you want it, buy it same as cash, except the interest makes it cost more so it's not the same as cash. That is very much the thinking of a lot of people. It is my right to have "this". No it's not your right to have "that", it's your right to work for that. We have to many who live off welfare that don't need to. I am not saying by any means that everyone on welfare is using the system, but their are a lot who could work, but they just don't want to. Why should me and you work our butts off for someone like that. Health care does need some reforms to it, as long as those working and like their health care do not get punished for it. You can not honestly tell me that if the Government has a ran health care, that businesses are not going to find ways to cut their sponsored health plans. Come on, do you realize how much it costs a business to provide care. Simple logic says they will, and the Government know that. They have to do something to get businesses to want to provide health care to their workers so they don't do that. Not in finds or penalties, then they will just provide the min. to get by, but incentives to make it more of a reward. After all don't we reward our kids and pets for good behavior? We can be number 1 in this area also if politics, by both parties, would be left out of it. Problem is it's to hot of political issue. I hope you see can see the point I am making. "

lefty wrote on Sep 16, 2009 1:04 AM:

" Dont worry EVELYN.... they're not takin away your Medicare or Social Security.

God forbid young people get such benefits... God forbid.... "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 16, 2009 1:07 AM:

" Obama's appearance in Michigan where the Republican convention was held and during the Tea Parties 912 march was a tit for a tat by his handlers as usual.

They take nothing lying down and go for the throat!

I've never seen a President who is as partisan as this one no matter what he says to the contrary and blasts the Republicans at every speech I have ever heard him give!

I suspect that this will be his tact as it was with the first Tea Party marches across the nation except that this time he could not say he was unaware of it with the masses of thousands that turned out.

However, has anyone heard him say anything to the concerns of the public without condemning and ridiculing them?

Might I also add that there was "0" arrests during the entire day at the peoples march on Washington "

father bob wrote on Sep 16, 2009 8:58 AM:

" unknownjoe wrote on Sep 15, 2009 8:18 PM:
" Oh Bob, keep shuffling your race cards. You are the biggest racist in here.""""

what?.... you don't like brownies? and Unknowingjoe, did anyone bring up race in this thread? or are you so inbred you can't read? next time i'll mention "cookies" as not to bring color into the conversation. "

unknownjoe wrote on Sep 16, 2009 9:46 AM:

" No Bob, I just took it to your typical conclusion about every post in here. You banter back and forth and then throw down your racist accusations and that seems to be the end all for your comments. As far as inbreeding, it seemed to work for your parents. At least you can read and write. Although the intelligence behind the writing is still in question. "

theproletariat87 wrote on Sep 16, 2009 12:53 PM:

" This is all bull. One your title, government is control. The founding fathers manipulated the masses to rise against the British in Boston, knowing that if the british attacked it would fuel their cause. As we know, unarmed people were masacured. The Alien and Sedition Acts, set up by the Federalists to keep people and news papers from saying anything bad about them. Here's some more, how bout in the late 1800's when the Pinkerton Detectives shot down unions protesting at coal plants? All governments control, its whose in power that keeps people content on one side. For me, I would love too see an anarchist society that lives peacefully, sharing what they can in their communities. Not here to argue that. Yet, I would like to see a state rights, socialist-libertarian style government. That would still be government control.

Also go tell a poor person that he is better off than the man that drives around in his expensive car, not worrying about bills, food, health care. Even poor christians would agree with me. Even the soul is affected by poverty when someone is gloating it in their face. "

even steven wrote on Sep 16, 2009 2:16 PM:

" cedric66 wrote on Sep 15, 2009 11:50 PM:

" Have you noticed that conservative talk radio and TV hosts, including the top three of Rush, Hannity and Beck, are nice guys? Not only does nobody listen to the liberal hosts, but they're all a bunch of jerks. ROFLMAO "

That's because leftists actually believe they are smarter than anyone else, which is laughable, since most of them are willfully ignorant about news that goes against their liberal indontrinations. They dismiss real news as "lies". Plus, who wants to watch some middle aged puke like Chris Matthews who gets all girly about Obama (oh... those leg tingles!)? What a bunch of clowns! "

father bob wrote on Sep 16, 2009 5:16 PM:

" unknownjoe wrote on Sep 16, 2009 9:46 AM:
" No Bob, I just took it to your typical conclusion about every post in here. """""

ok....should i mention crackers then? "

father bob wrote on Sep 16, 2009 5:25 PM:

" by the way unknowingjoe, the whole tea bagger movement, the glenn beck 9.12 march, the weapons at town halls are ALL ABOUT RACE....say what you wish, but anyone who knowingly aligns themselves with any on these movements are aligning themselves with the WASP far right.

by the way joe, here's a little "where's waldo" fun you might be able to wrap your pinhead around.... tell me how many black faces you can find in those 70,000 marchers... "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 16, 2009 7:55 PM:

" Just when I thought this administration could sink no lower, we're again brought to a new low.

After all the Dems' screeching about the Patriot Act and how it was infringing on our First Amendment Rights when the Bush administration was trying to protect the country from terrorists by monitoring their overseas calls, we find out the Obama administration is saving information about everyday citizens simply for White House information.

My question: WHY? "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 16, 2009 7:58 PM:

" Since you have all the answers FB, You tell us how many there was.
How many??? "

father bob wrote on Sep 16, 2009 8:13 PM:

" cedric66 wrote on Sep 16, 2009 7:58 PM:

" Since you have all the answers FB, You tell us how many there was.
How many??? """""

no cheating seedy....you have to count and report back!....(pssssst...don't give it away!) "

father bob wrote on Sep 16, 2009 8:17 PM:

" cedric66 wrote on Sep 16, 2009 7:55 PM:

" Just when I thought this administration could sink no lower, we're again brought to a new low.

After all the Dems' screeching about the Patriot Act and how it was infringing on our First Amendment Rights when the Bush administration was trying to protect the country from terrorists by monitoring their overseas calls, we find out the Obama administration is saving information about everyday citizens simply for White House information.

My question: WHY? """""

well seedy....slow people didn't realize it would come back to bite them on the a55 once the power was enacted. "

Locke wrote on Sep 16, 2009 10:11 PM:

" Thanks for your input Evelyn. However, the problem of health care will last for years to come -- you won't. Please feel free to offer us a solution, rather than just complain. "

unknownjoe wrote on Sep 16, 2009 11:51 PM:

" Well Bob, You can use cracker all you want to. You have my permission. As far as the number of black faces in the crowd. I really never took notice because race isn't really an issue with me. What I saw was Americans coming together practicing their constitutional rights of assembly and speech. Once again you play the race card to divert attention away from the fact that you have no intelligent point to make whatsoever. But what else should I expect from you Bob. It's the only thing you know. Here is your MO. I have nothing intelligent to say, so, I will throw out the race card. If that doesnt work. I will make a feeble insult as to the nature of someones genetic lineage. You seem to be obsessed with the latter. Could it be that you are projecting your obession with your female progenitor or possibly a female sibling on to the people you find disagreeable on this site. With time and counseling Bob, you could probably work through these issues with no problem.

Oh and Bob, anyone who aligns themselves with a President who has aligned himself with an organization that teaches and assists someone in setting up a house of prostitution using Hispanic underage girls keeping them in sexual slavery through threats of violence; has some very serious issues. At the very least it seems rather racist. Can you wrap your inflated ego around that Bob? "

jrhendren wrote on Sep 17, 2009 12:38 AM:

" shumphreys wrote on Sep 15, 2009 1:26 PM:
" Evelyn did Jesus tell us to look the other way and let the poor starve or die for lack of medical care or a cup of water? OR did he tell us to look out for our neighbors because the least we do for them we do unto him? "

There you go again quoting from what you don't believe in. You do not believe in the Bible, or in Jesus, so why quote him? "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 17, 2009 7:41 AM:

" Mr. Hendren because the Bible is full of great wisdom and Jesus was a wise man. You don't have to believe in the fantasies to acknowledge the wisdom of the core teachings. Especially since the core teaching appeared long before Jesus ever walked this earth and has been common to ALL the worlds religions and peoples. What is that core teaching? Why simply, "do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you." "

The Question wrote on Sep 17, 2009 8:40 AM:

" The Justice Department is investigating whether former Interior Secretary Gale A. Norton illegally used her position to benefit Royal Dutch Shell PLC, the company that later hired her, according to officials in federal law enforcement and the Interior Department.
Bush officials are to corruption are as ducks to water. "

even steven wrote on Sep 17, 2009 9:16 AM:

" Father Bob, you should check out Lloyd Marcus' website. He's also had several articles on the American Thinker website. That should put any false claims of Tea Party patriots being racists to rest. Mr. Marcus has been receiving racist threats from the left... insults like "uncle tom" and worse. Racism is alive and well... on the left. The leftist, self-proclaimed "elites" want to keep everyone, not just black Americans, on the liberal plantation where the elite masters control everything, and everyone else is dependent upon them. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 17, 2009 9:40 AM:

" Yet, I am amused by conservatives like talk-radio host Rush Limbaugh who insist racism has nothing to do with Obama's problems. Only a few months ago they were blaming white guilt for his success. Folks, you can't have it both ways.
Clarence Paige-

I think he nailed it on this one. "

father bob wrote on Sep 17, 2009 9:56 AM:

" unknownjoe wrote on Sep 16, 2009 11:51 PM:
" Can you wrap your inflated ego around that Bob? """""

ROFLMAO!!!!....my ego's just fine. it's my color that makes you crazy. "

sapient wrote on Sep 17, 2009 10:13 AM:

" Evelyn: Thanks for the common sense letter. If you notice, those on the left cannot refute the facts, so they have to resort to put-downs. "

sapient wrote on Sep 17, 2009 10:20 AM:

" Lefty and Becky: Of course Evelyn will use her medicare and social security. She paid for it. It is not logical to expect one who has been reqired to pay for a service to not accept it. According to your logic, if you pay for health insurance but have a complaint against the company you should refuse their payments when you get sick. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 17, 2009 11:09 AM:

" The South Carolina Supreme Court has ordered an insurance company to pay $10 million for wrongly revoking the insurance policy of a 17-year-old college student after he tested positive for HIV. The court called the 2002 decision by the insurance company "reprehensible."
Huffington post-

It seems that South Carolina has been in the news a lot lately. Perhaps it would be a good deal for the rest of us if they joined the Texas governors movement for cessation. How about if we get rid of Texas, South Carolina and of course Alaska? "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 17, 2009 11:11 AM:

" Funny how someone obviously on Medicare resents the government helping those that aren't. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Sep 17, 2009 11:25 AM:

" Corrupt ACORN officials are to OBAMA as ducks are to water. " "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Sep 17, 2009 11:27 AM:

" Folks, you can't have it both ways...unless you're a flip-flopping, socialist democrat..... "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 17, 2009 12:29 PM:

" WASHINGTON Former Vice President Dick Cheney is having elective back surgery at George Washington University Hospital.

Maybe they're putting a spine in his back. He lost his when he hid from the VietNam war with his 5 deferments. Of course that didn't stop him from sending over 4000 young Americans to their death in Iraq, while he made millions off his Halliburton stock options. Remember those? Wonder when he's going to live up to his promise to give them to charity. That was over 8 years ago, and was just one among many lies that human slug told the public. "

The Question wrote on Sep 17, 2009 12:32 PM:

" Sappy, if this woman has lived more than three years past retirement, her contribution toward Social Security has been exhausted, so she did not "pay for it." The rest of us who are still working do. It is our socialist gift to her, for which she should thank us. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Sep 17, 2009 12:40 PM:

" "Funny how someone obviously drawing their pension from the state of Illinois, funded by state taxpayers, resents the state taxpayers paying for his pension.. " "

father bob wrote on Sep 17, 2009 12:41 PM:

" unknownjoe wrote on Sep 16, 2009 11:51 PM:
" Well Bob, You can use cracker all you want to."""""

see, i can say "cracker" all i want to, but you get bent out of shape when i mention brownies. i'll bet you'll go ballistic when i start talking about chocolate chip oatmeal cookies....wheeew! what a nutcase! "

The Question wrote on Sep 17, 2009 12:42 PM:

" The South Carolina Supreme Court has ordered an insurance company to pay $10 million for wrongly revoking the insurance policy of a 17-year-old college student after he tested positive for HIV.
Hey, get used to it. The insurance companies have obviously bought all the Republicans in Congress and most of the Democrats, so they'll be throwing a lot more sick people under the bus in the future. They didnt get rich by paying for health care, you know, but by denying it whenever possible. "

father bob wrote on Sep 17, 2009 12:46 PM:

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Sep 17, 2009 11:25 AM:
" Corrupt ACORN officials are to OBAMA as ducks are to water. " """""

and as you are to godless christian rightwingers. "

BW wrote on Sep 17, 2009 12:52 PM:

" fb, I don't think it's your color (which you draw like a weapon). It's just you. "

theproletariat87 wrote on Sep 17, 2009 2:06 PM:

" Its is seriously like screaming into a brick wall. Man boy am I starting to hate liberals, but you conservatives just don't stop with the constant, stale jargon do you? At least the liberals are coming up with new ideas. Again and again you conservatives just keep dancing around issues, and touting "free market" crap over and over again. WHAT IS YOUR ALTERNATIVE!? You talk about government control then you go and censor free speech, decide who is deemed rights, prevented unions from forming in the early 1900's, imprisoned people for suspect communists. I'm sorry your little parasitic government will end, and I'm sorry it won't be Obama.
Now Liberals, I'm on board for expanded social programs, infrastructure, state jobs, but you can't continue to tax the middle and lower class. You must also live in a balanced budget. Trim pork barrel programs (to which you conservatives are guilty as well), cut the defense budget, focusing on proper supplies for the soldiers, instead of the next generation of fighter bomber. Plus, I'm tired of this political correctness bull. It is taken way too far, to the point of prohibiting free speech. You are all guilty.

oh yeah government is control so this whole letter is void. "

father bob wrote on Sep 17, 2009 2:12 PM:

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Sep 17, 2009 11:27 AM:
" Folks, you can't have it both ways...unless you're a flip-flopping, socialist democrat."""""

give back those social security checks you'll receive. tear up that high school diploma. write your congressmen to abolish the military. tell the county sheriff and local police you don't want their protection. tell the courts you don't want your civil rights protected or see any need to have a speedy or fair trial. oh... and if you're hungry or homeless, don't ask for food stamps or public aid......all socialist programs "

BW wrote on Sep 17, 2009 2:47 PM:

" fb, I've tried to send comments to you twice and they haven't made the trip. Do you suppose it's because I have a black dog and a black car? "

cd wrote on Sep 17, 2009 4:09 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Sep 15, 2009 1:26 PM:

" Evelyn did Jesus tell us to look the other way and let the poor starve or die for lack of medical care or a cup of water? OR did he tell us to look out for our neighbors because the least we do for them we do unto him? "
---
You're correct in what Jesus taught, but Jesus was talking to individual people, not the government. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Sep 17, 2009 5:32 PM:

" give back those social security checks you'll receive. tear up that high school diploma. write your congressmen to abolish the military. tell the county sheriff and local police you don't want their protection. tell the courts you don't want your civil rights protected or see any need to have a speedy or fair trial. oh... and if you're hungry or homeless, don't ask for food stamps or public aid......all socialist programs "
--------------------------------

Okay...noooooot a problem... "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 17, 2009 7:31 PM:

" I want, not for personally for me, but for working Americans, to have a option, that if they don't like their health insurance, if it's too expensive, they can't afford it, if the government can cobble together a cheaper insurance policy that gives the same benefits, I see that as a plus for the folks.
Bill O'Reilly (Fox news)

What's this?

Watch for a retraction tomorrow. When the big guys upstairs hear this, O'Reilly will be backing down on this pronouncement in a hurry.

Rush Dimbaugh will so distressed he'll be popping those Oxycontin pills by the handful. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 17, 2009 8:56 PM:

" Okay...noooooot a problem... "

Oh really? and stay off those socialistic highways too. lol! "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 17, 2009 9:20 PM:

" For years, Lou Dobbs has been one of the most dangerous hosts on cable news. He benefits enormously from the legitimacy of the CNN brand, which provides him with an unparalleled platform from which to mainstream the hate speech and racially charged conspiracy theories normally relegated to Fox News and other conservative news outlets.
Huffington post-

Hey, let Fox take him on, they took Oliver North, Karl Rove, Glenn Beck, Newt Gingrich. What's another scumbag to add to their sleazy line up? "

The Question wrote on Sep 17, 2009 10:11 PM:

" Of course O'Reilly "supports" the public option now that's it's safely dead. NOT when his support might have done any good, you'll note.
Now the old fascist blowhard can pat himself on the back for his meaningless "bipartisan support." "

7X6Z9 wrote on Sep 17, 2009 10:20 PM:

" UN NUKE AGENCY: UH, WELL, IRAN CAN BUILD A BOMB RIGHT NOW

AP NEWSBREAK (Sept 17 2009) Experts at the worlds top atomic watchdog are in agreement that Tehran has the ability to make a nuclear bomb and is on the way to developing a missile system able to carry an atomic warhead, according to a secret report seen by The Associated Press....

The document says Iran has "sufficient information" to build a bomb. It says Iran is likely to "overcome problems" on developing a delivery system.
--------

Golly gee. I seem to recall the Left-Wing nutroots in here (Harry Potter, father bob, The Question, Susan Humphreys) only last year- slamming Bush with accusations of fear mongering when he was warning of just such a development. Well played screwballs. So uhm- what's Barry's plan now? Send another Hope-n-Changey love note to Amadinnerjacket then Hope-n-Pray he won't decide to launch?

Say goodbye to this so called "president" folks. Because this stupendous a**clown leader of the free world is toast. He's a one-termer if ever there was one.

Buh-bye Barry Hussein. "

unknownjoe wrote on Sep 17, 2009 11:20 PM:

" There ya go again Bob. Bringing up color again. We were discussing how your inflated ego cannot wrap itself around the idea that your president gave and received endorsements from an organization that seems to be intent on showing people how to evade taxes, organize houses of prostitution and violently enslaving underage girls. How very disappointed you must be; that your man in office fits the criteria of corruption that you espouse to be championing the fight against. So Bob, when you are shuffling your cards and checking geneologies take a moment to reflect on the idea that if Buffy the hooker and Skippy the pimp had truly been bad people, there may have been 13-15 year old hispanic girls being brought into this country to work as sex slaves. All this being done with our tax dollars and endorsements from your president. "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 17, 2009 11:33 PM:

" What's the matter Harry?
Sounds like you are having a bad day.
What's it going to be like when the elections get here?
november 2010 May all you loonies have a nice weekend!! "

jrhendren wrote on Sep 17, 2009 11:37 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Sep 17, 2009 7:41 AM:
" Mr. Hendren because the Bible is full of great wisdom and Jesus was a wise man. You don't have to believe in the fantasies to acknowledge the wisdom of the core teachings. Especially since the core teaching appeared long before Jesus ever walked this earth and has been common to ALL the worlds religions and peoples. What is that core teaching? Why simply, "do not do to others what you would not want them to do to you." "

Here we go again you and your this is older, that is older. I can pick and chose what I want out of the Bible. I can tell you what you are to believe even if I don't. This from someone who can't admit the President has a plan for health care after he himself says he does. "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 18, 2009 6:34 AM:

" CD and your point is...? That governments should NOT/have NO business caring for those less fortunate. Governments should only look after it's own needs or support those that are MOST fortunate. Here I thought government was supposed to work for/benefit ALL the people, not just itself or a select few. "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Sep 18, 2009 7:56 AM:

" This is rich Humphreys thinks the Bible and Jesus are fantasies but our health care system should be based on Jesus' teachings. "

father bob wrote on Sep 18, 2009 8:33 AM:

" BW wrote on Sep 17, 2009 2:47 PM:
" fb, I've tried to send comments to you twice and they haven't made the trip. Do you suppose it's because I have a black dog and a black car? """""

probably.....just don't mention brownies or you'll have Knknowingjoe breathing down your neck "

even steven wrote on Sep 18, 2009 9:44 AM:

" So, we have Burris and Durbin both supporting ACORN, so apparently they have no problem with folks smuggling in third world children to be used as sex slaves, and now this:

A former union official and California Department of Insurance employee was sentenced Tuesday to 25 years in prison after entering no contest pleas to charges of child molestation, possession of child pornography, and manufacturing child pornography.

Jaime Enrique Feliciano, who served as a chapter president of Service Employees International Union Local 1000, which represents thousands of Sacramento-area state workers, had previous convictions for child molestation and failure to register as a sex offender.

Those ACORN/SEIU folks are sure providing nice examples of the types of folks supporting the Democrats these days. "

theproletariat87 wrote on Sep 18, 2009 11:47 AM:

" Ok since no one listens again. One, Harry you know was well as I do that I make nancy look like rush, but if you hate these fascist: Bill Oriley, Glenn Beck, then how do you know so much about what they say. lol had to get that one out there. Now Jon Vanatta, I'm not a Christian, and I like the teachings of Jesus just fine. Just because someone doesn't believe in Jesus doesn't mean they can't find his teachings helpful. I like to take all of the great philosphers including: Jesus, Buddha, Confucius, Plato, etc.., but doesn't mean that I believe in all their tenets or how the world was started. Ahhh its funny, Christians want you to know Christ, but you have to swear undying loyality aparently to know him. Jesus is rolling over in "heaven" listen to you people slander his name. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Sep 18, 2009 12:12 PM:

" Oh really? and stay off those socialistic highways too. lol! "
------

Okay...not a problem there either... "

father bob wrote on Sep 18, 2009 12:30 PM:

" Jon Vanatta wrote on Sep 18, 2009 7:56 AM:
" This is rich Humphreys thinks the Bible and Jesus are fantasies but our health care system should be based on Jesus' teachings. """""

Jon Vanatta....living, breathing proof christianity will never be rescued from the "christians". "

father bob wrote on Sep 18, 2009 12:35 PM:

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Sep 18, 2009 12:12 PM:
" Oh really? and stay off those socialistic highways too. lol! "
------

Okay...not a problem there either... """"

and by all means forget those nasty socialist free flu vaccines! (they'll turn you into a muslim) "

lefty wrote on Sep 18, 2009 2:57 PM:

" SAPIENT, incorrect. If you argue for absolute choice and the perversion of government in providing services, then it is your duty to reject those government services. Social security I can understand because it is a simple cash allocation.

But Medicare, why would such a person trust their life in such a perverse system especially with so many market competitors? That smells of rank hypocrisy. "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 18, 2009 3:54 PM:

" Harry and FB are left wing nut jobs. No matter what you say you cannot win because left wing nut jobs have no real position. They whine they cry, they get loud, and yes they get violent, then they blame it on the person/persons who puts their back to the wall with a good argument. They are pretty much all the same. When they can't win on the merits of a debate/conversation they get loud, and want to get violent. Just let them flounder in their own crap. eventually they will drown in it, as is witnessed by ACORN, Pelosi, and Reid. "

kamfong wrote on Sep 18, 2009 4:23 PM:

" jrhendren do you ever just once comment on an original thread or do you just like to dissagree with everybody that doesn't post to your likings??geeesh "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 18, 2009 5:48 PM:

" Ok since no one listens again. One, Harry you know was well as I do that I make nancy look like rush, but if you hate these fascist: Bill Oriley, Glenn Beck, then how do you know so much about what they say. lol had to get that one out there.

Don't tell anybody,but Actually Harry and FB watch Fox News all the time. Since all other stations don't put out anything and Fox is "FAIR AND BALANCED" "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 18, 2009 5:50 PM:

" Hey fb, seedy says you and I are getting violent. I guess she thinks you and I are some of those nutbags carrying guns to the Obama talks. lol!

seedy seems to be getting a little more delusional by the day. I don't know about you, but I'm still waiting to hear that good argument she clamoring about. So far all I hear is right wing talking points being spewed by people who have no original thoughts of their own, case in point, seedy's last bit of blathering nonsense. It looks like she's stuck on wait till next election now. Some debate, huh? "

The Question wrote on Sep 18, 2009 6:15 PM:

" Father Bob, these greedy, heartless right-wing "Christians" would not know Jesus if he vomited on them. And he probably would, because what they preach in his name would turn his stomach. "

The Question wrote on Sep 18, 2009 7:11 PM:

" In the Sept 18, 2009, Washington Post, on page A9, Fox News took out a full-page ad, bragging about its coverage of the Tea Party protests in Washington, DC which were heavily promoted by Fox News. "How did, ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, and CNN miss this story?" the text reads. In fact, on Sept. 12, CNN ran no less than 14 reports on the Tea Party rally. The other channels also aired multiple reports on it.
The liars at Fox News lie once again. Old story, I know. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 18, 2009 7:57 PM:

" Just as I suspected, neo sits alone in his basement, scours right wing web sites and probably relies on peace meals. "

father bob wrote on Sep 18, 2009 8:06 PM:

" cedric66 wrote on Sep 18, 2009 3:54 PM:

" Harry and FB are left wing nut jobs. No matter what you say you cannot win because left wing nut jobs have no real position.""""

seedy, watch and learn little guy. "

jrhendren wrote on Sep 18, 2009 11:18 PM:

" kamfong wrote on Sep 18, 2009 4:23 PM:
" jrhendren do you ever just once comment on an original thread or do you just like to dissagree with everybody that doesn't post to your likings??geeesh "

Hey genius I was the first to post on this thread, as well as others. So now I am not allowed to post because you don't like it? You are the master of the one line, trying to be humorous, dislike post. You very rarely post anything that is not negative. LOL!!! Keep up the humor. "

jrhendren wrote on Sep 18, 2009 11:22 PM:

" The Question wrote on Sep 18, 2009 6:15 PM:
" Father Bob, these greedy, heartless right-wing "Christians" would not know Jesus if he vomited on them. And he probably would, because what they preach in his name would turn his stomach. "

Let's see "these greedy, heartless right-wing "Christians"". If you are going to lie at least put the left in their two. I mean most of them are proclaimed "Christians" also. Maybe you should actually see what Christianity is about before speaking. "

Interested Observer wrote on Sep 19, 2009 4:33 AM:

" In case no one's noticed, we already have government-run health-care programs that work amazingly well-- they're called 'Medicare' and the VA. Why do those who have their health care seem to begrudge those who do not getting some, too? Just askin'... "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 19, 2009 8:23 AM:

" The ultimate Astroturf project known as the 9/12 March on Washington will encompass all aspects of what's left of the Republican party in one place this weekend. Propped up by Dick Armey's Freedom Works Foundation and charging upwards of $10,000 for some groups to take part, this corporate funded grassroots march on the Capitol will feature typical conservative Republican congressmen like Mike Pence, Jim DeMint and Joe "You Lie" Wilson delivering speeches to somewhat normal Americans who are angry at the government about a number of things.

But they won't be alone. Yes, the radical Right will be there too. We're not just talking about the anti-abortion types who worship doctor killers. No, we're talking about actual militant radicals.

You don't need a big, confusing chalkboard to visually connect the dots between the right wing revolutionary group called NARLO and all of these Republican characters who are taking part in this 9/12 project. It's easy to put them together since NARLO is actually co-sponsoring the event. This is disturbingly transparent my friends. The Northern American Rural Land Owners website reveals that these potential terrorists look forward to violent revolution against the "enemy" government which will lead to the rapid secession of States and ultimately causing a new Civil War. These are the kinds of people that Republican party surrounds itself with in celebration on the day after 9/11? What a difference eight years and a black President makes.

Doesn't all this mean that Fox News host Glenn Beck is connected to homegrown terrorists as well as the GOP? America, the evidence speaks clearly. Glenn Beck is the mastermind of the 9/12 movement, Dick Armey and his GOP friends are hosting and the radical secessionist group NARLO is footing the bill.
Dorsey Shaw-

Oh yeah right wingers, keep spewing the grass roots line. Do yourself a favor folks, check out the treasonous NARLO organization. Better yet, I'll be posting some info them. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 19, 2009 10:11 AM:

" ANCHORAGE, Alaska - A true fan of former Republican vice presidential candidate Sarah Palin is paying $63,500 to have dinner with her.
Fox news-

They have another name for women who will spend time with you for money. lol! "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Sep 19, 2009 10:13 AM:

" When you write about Jesus vomiting you should read what He actually said. He said He would spew out of His mouth (sounds like vomiting to me) those who just pay Him lip service and say they accomodate some of His teachings but do not accept or believe in Him. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 19, 2009 1:41 PM:

" " Harry and FB are left wing nut jobs. No matter what you say you cannot win because left wing nut jobs have no real position.""""

Hey fb, we both challenged seedy to quit cut and pasting without giving credit and to actually come up with something original. I guess the best she could come up with. She did come up with claiming Fox is fair and balanced, but that's not very original, as all right wing nutbags try to foist that one off. Do you think they're really stupid enough to believe that? In seedy's case, probably so. LOL! "

Locke wrote on Sep 19, 2009 1:52 PM:

" "This is rich Humphreys thinks the Bible and Jesus are fantasies but our health care system should be based on Jesus' teachings."

Well, just because I understand the message in the Three Little Pigs -- such as the value of hard work and error of avoiding problems with false sense of security -- doesn't mean I believe there were really pigs who could build houses or a wolf that could blow them down! "

nutjob wrote on Sep 19, 2009 5:40 PM:

" I think you are all a bunch of dimwits. Hey, here's an idea, think for yourselves for a change instead of spreading rhetorical propoganda from both sides. Is the government in any type of position to dictate what it thinks is best for the populace? No. That is not the way a republic works. This country is a republic you know. Socialism... take from everyone and distribute to everyone, equaly. Sounds like a good idea, but it DOES NOT WORK. Why? Greed. One of the original deadly sins. This is taught by both Christianity AND Catholasism. By the way, Christianity is the basis for the morality of THIS Republic. I read where someone stated that Jesus taught to be generous and kind. Yes, amongst ourselves. This is why seperation between church and state is so crucial. The teachings of religion is a tricky subject when politics are involved. Which inevitably comes back to greed. As I suspect, my comments will get taken out of context, and I don't really feel like continuing proving I am right so I will refrain from posting on here again. "

M wrote on Sep 19, 2009 6:00 PM:

" Well said, Evelyn.
Don't you people ever tire of fighting amongst yourselves over everything? How do you ever expect anything to get better if all you are willing to do is argue?
Disclaimer:
My use of the words 'you people' is in no way intended to refer to ones race. "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 19, 2009 6:33 PM:

" They have another name for women who will spend time with you for money. lol

And what is that name HP? "

Interested Observer wrote on Sep 19, 2009 7:23 PM:

" Just to be clear, there is no single 'Christian' position on health-care. My Church, for example, supports universal access for ALL, regardless of their means. I am a conservative and a Christian, but I do NOT stand with the reactionary types. I believe in Christ's teachings-- ALL of them-- and there is no question whatsoever in my mind that denying decent health care to any percentage of our citizens is a mortal sin. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 19, 2009 8:37 PM:

" The Post reported this week: "By one count, Bush had 36 czar positions filled by 46 people during his eight years as president." Historically, presidents have turned to special advisers.
The Washington Post-

Evelyn, like most right wingers shoots her mouth off about Obama doing as his predecessor did. Perhaps she wrote a letter to the editor when Bush practiced the same policy. No just another misguided GOP'er putting their foot in their mouth once again.

I seem to recall the good folks at Fox news running an online poll about this issue and the majority of their viewers said Obamas was wrong. Fox news attacked the current president for doing the exact same thing Bush did. Incredible.

How about that one seedy? "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 20, 2009 6:44 AM:

" Mr. Vanatta if someone, You or Ms. Livingston can use or choose to use the Bible to justify your refusal to help those in need, I can and choose to use the Bible to justify WHY I and you should help those in need. Which of us do you think Jesus would agree with, be proud of, save or not save? The one who helps his neighbor or the one who looks the other way? "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 20, 2009 9:00 AM:

" Once again Fox news gets busted for attempting to make news instead of reporting it in their ongoing orchestrated assault on the Obama administration:

The Huffington Post has confirmed that the woman in the below video seen raising her arms to rally the crowd behind Griff Jenkins, who was reporting from the scene for Fox News is Fox News producer Heidi Noonan.

"The employee is a young, relatively inexperienced associate producer who realizes she made a mistake and has been disciplined," Bryan Boughton, Fox News Channel Washington Bureau Chief told the Huffington Post.

The video shows the producer on her cell phone as she urges the crowd behind Jenkins to cheer louder. An "I'm A Foxaholic" poster appears nearby.
Huffington post-

Her biggest problem was getting caught on camera while acting in this despicable manner. Fox continues to do these sort of things in the name of journalism and continues to claim they are fair and balanced.

Link to the Huffington post to view the video of the unprofessional and unethical behavior on the part of this Fox employee.

Oh yeah seedy, keep up the fair and balanced line for this outfit. lol! "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 20, 2009 12:00 PM:

" Beck has notoriously defamed Obama as a racist, but the race card is just one in his deck. His ideology, if it can be called that, mixes idolatrous Ayn Rand libertarianism with bumper-sticker slogans about freedom, self-help homilies and lunatic conspiracy theories. (He fanned Internet rumors that FEMA was establishing concentration camps before tardily beating a retreat.) Its the same crazy-quilt cosmology that could be found in last weekends Washington protest, where the marchers variously called Obama a fascist, a communist and a socialist, likening him to Hitler, Stalin, Castro and Pol Pot. They may not know that some of these libels are mutually exclusive. But what they do know is that they need a scapegoat for what ails them, and there is no one handier than a liberal, all-powerful president (who just happens to be black).
Op ed piece from the New York Times-

Interesting view of Fox's Glenn Beck. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 20, 2009 1:34 PM:

" Watching Fox news was quite amusing this morning. While lamenting the appointments of the so called "Czar" position, the Fox talking heads were at their best Obama bashing. But the best part was the on screen crawler that noted Bush appointed 16 "Czars" during his two terms, in reality he appointed 42 people to 36 positions during his two terms. Obama has appointed a total of 18 people, and I don't recall any outrage by Fox over Bush's appointments. I pointed this out earlier. I would add that the Washington Post piece I cited was written by two former Republicans who worked in the Reagan and Bush White House's. Not only does Fox lie, distort and twist the truth, they apparently lie with their crawlers.

Just another item to add to the on going list of lies being told by the Fox news outfit. Fair and balanced? "

7X6Z9 wrote on Sep 20, 2009 5:08 PM:

" The Democrats ultimate goal (in their own words) is the gradual elimination of all private health insurance through the Trojan-Horse tactic of the so called "Public Option". And to that end, Single-Payer Health Care, is in fact, COUNTER to Christs teachings.

Christ did *not* speak about societies and governments - He spoke specifically about *individual* salvation and personal responsibility. He ultimately spoke about freedom of individual choice. Thus anything that FORCED people to "help" would be fundamentally UN-Christian.

To put a fine point on it; FORCED charity, is NOT charity at all. It is simply a redistribution of wealth for the broadly defined "needy" as determined by a secular government. A secular government whose ultimate goal is self-preservation through the acquisition of more and more power at the expense of it's citizens individual freedoms by forcing it's citizenry to increasingly depend upon "government help".

Isn't it strange that the very same Left-Wing that repeatedly cries foul when there is any mention of Christianity in public matters of government, now wraps itself in the moral superiority of The First Century Galilean that they have repeatedly mocked and degenerated, and on an issue that is more threatening to each citizen's individual unalienable rights than any mere school prayer or redefinition of marriage. "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 20, 2009 6:02 PM:

" They have another name for women who will spend time with you for money. lol

And what is that name HP? "

Still no answer Harry? "

The Question wrote on Sep 20, 2009 6:12 PM:

" The newspaper should try a far less irrelevant poll question: Have you ever had difficulty in PAYING FOR the services of a physician? "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Sep 20, 2009 9:10 PM:

" Susan Humphreys, poor answer, you should give a little thought to what Obamacare is going to do to the young people and the burden it will put upon them. If you are concerned about others as you say you are you should think of them. You have a very self-centered attitude thinking only of yourself just like Obama is. Obama is a liar just as Joe Wilson said. Wilson has been vindicated because he is right Obama lied and he has admitted it by his actions and words. Obama lied about coverage for illegal aliens and he lied about abortion coverage with taxpayers funds. If he is not ashamed of these things why did he lie about them? Now he is trying to cover his lie by making illegal aliens legal so they can have coverage. He stood right there before both houses of congress and lied. Those that have read the 1000+ pages of the health bill have verified that it will cover illegal aliens and fund abortions and it does provide for rationing of health care especially for senior citizens. It will eventually put everyone into a government run system. It will eventually force private insurance companies out of business. Government bureaucrats will be making health care decisions for us; it will be like dealing with an IRS agent about your life.

Susan you and I dont get to vote on this health bill anyway. Obama wants to blame all his problems on what he calls the radical right and the Republicans. Thats not his problem! His problem is with his own party the Democrats. They have a majority in the House and in the Senate but there are enough Democrats that are starting to see the light of what and who this man really is that he and Pelosi and Reid all know they dont have the votes in their own party and their lying is not helping at all.

If you want to help your neighbor as Jesus said you need to think about who your neighbor is because you want to pick and choose and you choose illegal aliens for help and the defenseless unborn babies you want to kill. There are other people besides you and Obama to think about. Again you have tried to use the Holy Scriptures of God, which you do not understand or even believe to be holy. You make a foolish spectacle of yourself every time you misuse Gods Word. "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 21, 2009 2:22 PM:

" Mr. Vanatta the fact is this has become a world with porous borders, and is quickly becoming a world with NO borders. Disease, poverty, pollution, over population, religious and ethnic hatreds and the problems they spawn don't respect mans artificial boundary lines. I support the rights of ALL people and one of those rights is the right to health care. Other rights are the right to be treated with respect whatever their beliefs or non-beliefs, the right to an abortion if that is what they choose, the right to an education, the right to die peacefully when they decide their time has come, the right to develop their talents and follow their dreams..... You only support the rights of your kind, folks with your narrow minded, bigoted view of the world. I support the rights of ALL whatever their religion or non-religion, ethnicity, legal or illegal alien status, sexual preference, wealth, poverty,social status or attitude towards abortion. AND I know for a fact who's side Jesus )and Buddha, and Lao Tzu, and.....)is on and it certainly isn't yours! "

7X6Z9 wrote on Sep 21, 2009 3:20 PM:

" "Buddhism is not a creed, it is a doubt." - G.K. Chesterton

"These are the days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed except his own." - G.K. Chesterton "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Sep 21, 2009 7:44 PM:

" That is certainly a relief on my mind to know that Buddha, and Lao Tzu, and..... are not on my side! "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 22, 2009 7:56 AM:

" Nor is Jesus Mr. Vanatta, they are all one! "

father bob wrote on Sep 22, 2009 3:13 PM:

jrhendren wrote on Sep 23, 2009 12:15 AM:

" shumphreys wrote on Sep 21, 2009 2:22 PM:
"AND I know for a fact who's side Jesus )and Buddha, and Lao Tzu, and.....)is on and it certainly isn't yours! "

Since you do not know him I would venture to say not yours. "

jrhendren wrote on Sep 23, 2009 12:17 AM:

" shumphreys wrote on Sep 22, 2009 7:56 AM:
" Nor is Jesus Mr. Vanatta, they are all one! "

Proved by point, since they are not all one, if you knew him you would know that. Again you proved my point. "

jrhendren wrote on Sep 23, 2009 12:19 AM:

" Jon Vanatta wrote on Sep 20, 2009 9:10 PM:
" Susan Humphreys, poor answer, you should give a little thought to what Obamacare is going to do to the young people and the burden it will put upon them..."

Jon don't you know Obama has no plan. Their is no Obamacare. Susan said so. Yes, he did call it his plan several times in his speech, and he does have it on his website. Still Susan said he was wrong and does not have a plan. "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Sep 23, 2009 11:50 AM:

" shumphreys, was that Buddha, or Lao Tzu that freely gave his life there on that Roman cross and did for my sins? "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 23, 2009 1:47 PM:

" Mr. Hendren you have no points nor can you understand the points made by others. I suggest you teach yourself how to THINK. Obama still has NO plan. It doesn't matter what he calls it, it isn't a plan. He can't take it to Congress have them vote on it and put it into action. He has ideas, knows what he thinks a plan should include, how he thinks his ideas can be paid for....It just shows how gullible you are, you can't honestly evaluate something to figure out whether there is any "meat" to it or not. "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 23, 2009 1:51 PM:

" Oh and Mr. Hendren Jesus, Buddha, Lao Tzu, God, Allah, Jehovah, Great Spirit you and I, Father Bob, Question we are ALL ONE. Just differentparts/ molecules of one whole. Until you grasp that point you have missed the boat, are barking up the wrong tree, have taken the wrong path,......... "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 23, 2009 7:18 PM:

" News Flash Mr. Vanatta Jesus didn't die for your sins. You and you alone are responsible and accountable for your sins. No easy button for you or anyone else. Wishful thinking doesn't change reality. "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Sep 23, 2009 8:06 PM:

" But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Sep 23, 2009 9:48 PM:

" Hey uhm, Shumpy? Obama promised to release his own ObamaCare plan before his highly touted Resurrection From The Dead Speech to Congress a couple of weeks ago. So SuzyQ, where is it? "

7X6Z9 wrote on Sep 23, 2009 9:51 PM:

" Shumpy wrote - "Oh and Mr. Hendren Jesus, Buddha, Lao Tzu, God, Allah, Jehovah, Great Spirit you and I, Father Bob, Question we are ALL ONE. Just differentparts/ molecules of one whole. Until you grasp that point you have missed the boat, are barking up the wrong tree, have taken the wrong path,........."
-------------

Oh really Shumpy?

Prove it.

Show me evidence. "

jrhendren wrote on Sep 23, 2009 11:53 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Sep 23, 2009 1:47 PM:
" Mr. Hendren you have no points nor can you understand the points made by others. I suggest you teach yourself how to THINK. Obama still has NO plan. It doesn't matter what he calls it, it isn't a plan. He can't take it to Congress have them vote on it and put it into action. He has ideas, knows what he thinks a plan should include, how he thinks his ideas can be paid for....It just shows how gullible you are, you can't honestly evaluate something to figure out whether there is any "meat" to it or not. "

Sorry but it would be you who has no clue. You actually call him a liar, by saying, "Obama still has NO plan. It doesn't matter what he calls it." He says he has plan, but you say no you don't. LOL!!! You are always good for a laugh. Try looking up the definition of a plan again. "

jrhendren wrote on Sep 23, 2009 11:57 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Sep 23, 2009 1:51 PM:
" Oh and Mr. Hendren Jesus, Buddha, Lao Tzu, God, Allah, Jehovah, Great Spirit you and I, Father Bob, Question we are ALL ONE. Just differentparts/ molecules of one whole. Until you grasp that point you have missed the boat, are barking up the wrong tree, have taken the wrong path,......... "

No that is your problem. You do not believe in Christianity, but want to tell Christians what they are to believe. You do not believe so therefore everyone that does is wrong. You can believe that "we are one with the universe" if you want. You again are talking about something you do not believe in or no anything about. You want to pick and choice parts of different religions and make your own with those parts. Well sorry that does not work. "

jrhendren wrote on Sep 24, 2009 12:00 AM:

" shumphreys wrote on Sep 23, 2009 7:18 PM:
" News Flash Mr. Vanatta Jesus didn't die for your sins. You and you alone are responsible and accountable for your sins. No easy button for you or anyone else. Wishful thinking doesn't change reality. "

Vanatta, see my point of she wants to tell others what they are allowed to believe using someone she does not believe in. She once told me how great a person Jesus was, and then said their was no proof he ever existed. You keep up the good fight and your reward in heaven will be waiting for you. As for Susan all we can do is pray for her. "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 24, 2009 7:29 AM:

" Mr. Vanatta if Jesus is such a "good" person/God he wouldn't use his enemies as a footstool, he'd forgive them and they would be sitting beside him. Vengence is a human desire not a "godly" desire. "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 24, 2009 9:14 AM:

" Mr. Hendren you are so confused, there is proof that Jesus was a real person, confirmation outside the Bible. There is no proof that GOD exists or ever existed. I don't force anything on you, you are free to read what I write or free to not read what I write. AND you are free to make up your own mind about what I write. AND I am free to write and to share my thoughts with others. Enlightenment, evolution of the human being is an ongoing process and it comes when a person is able to move beyond me and mine or as I like to say it, when they are able to turn their me upside down and see the we. AND that Mr. Hendren and Mr. Vanatta is the core of Jesus message and Buddhas and Lao Tzus and........ "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Sep 24, 2009 3:57 PM:

" Susan you only have your concept of what good is. God has a different concept and He has a right to His because He is our Creator. God has wrath against all mankind because all of us are sinners. We all fall short of coming up to Gods standards. You do not have any right to tell God what His standards should be. He has offered grace to all mankind through faith in His Son. He has accepted the sacrifice of His Son for sins. Your concept of grace for everyone regardless of his or her faith is groundless and faulty. And yes there is exterior evidence for the life death and resurrection of Jesus. You are just like Ahmadinejad in that you deny historical facts and you deny all observable evidence of Gods created world. God has offered to you grace you dont deserve Susan through faith in His Son. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Sep 24, 2009 7:46 PM:

" There is no proof that GOD exists or ever existed?

Really?

Then how do you explain The Big Bang Theory, Susan?

Something had to have caused it.

Something beyond the realm of time.

Because "time" did not exist at that moment. In fact- nothing existed.

How did something come out of nothing?

How could time- never have been?

Please explain how all this could have happened Shumpy.

Oh and- Shumpy? The latest theories of Quantum Physics hypothesize that numerous multiple dimensions may exist at the same time. And that it may be possible to move from one dimension to another via wormholes through space-time.

Gee- and the idea of an infinite Supreme Being is supposed to be silly- huh Shumpy. "

jrhendren wrote on Sep 24, 2009 11:57 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Sep 24, 2009 9:14 AM:
" Mr. Hendren you are so confused, there is proof that Jesus was a real person, confirmation outside the Bible. There is no proof that GOD exists or ever existed. I don't force anything on you, you are free to read what I write or free to not read what I write. AND you are free to make up your own mind about what I write. AND I am free to write and to share my thoughts with others. Enlightenment, evolution of the human being is an ongoing process and it comes when a person is able to move beyond me and mine or as I like to say it, when they are able to turn their me upside down and see the we. AND that Mr. Hendren and Mr. Vanatta is the core of Jesus message and Buddhas and Lao Tzus and........ "

I did not say their was no proof Jesus was real, that was you after you claimed to know the Scriptures better then anyone else. (This is where you say you never said that, since it can not be brought back do to archiving.) Jesus, who is God in the flesh, said himself their is only one God. Now in order for him to be a "good man" as you claim, and yet make the claims he made he would be a liar, insane, or who he says he is. (I would go with the third choice if I was you.) Christ's core was two fold, 1. "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." - Matthew 22:37 and 2. "Love your neighbor as yourself." So you supposedly believe in the second, as long as it fits what you want it to, aka. Christians do not, but you leave out the first. Without the first you can never truly understand the second. As for God's existence sure I can say look around you, the faith in a God creating all you see has better odds then that of evolution or by accident. Not to mention that the scientific evidence leans more toward a creator then accident. I know God is real because his spirit dwells in me, as a non-believer you can not understand that. That I pray someday you might. "

jrhendren wrote on Sep 25, 2009 12:05 AM:

" shumphreys wrote on Sep 24, 2009 7:29 AM:
" Mr. Vanatta if Jesus is such a "good" person/God he wouldn't use his enemies as a footstool, he'd forgive them and they would be sitting beside him. Vengence is a human desire not a "godly" desire. "

Sorry again Vanatta.

Ms/Mrs Humphreys, so you do not believe in justice. Since that is what God is doing. He gives the gift of salvation freely, all one must do is take it. Those that do not, are his enemies and deserve the punishment they will receive. Also vengeance is a trait of God, "'Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God's wrath, for it is written: "It is mine to avenge; I will repay,'" says the Lord." - Romans 12:19
Maybe you should read the book you misquote and interpret so often. "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 25, 2009 7:17 AM:

" Since there is no GOD Mr. Vanatta I certainly can't be telling HIM what standards he should have! The very concept of Grace if it is true means that Grace will be granted to everyone, believers and non-believers, otherwise grace wouldn't be GRACE it would be coercion, quid proquo, bribery. Those who created the concept created their own Catch 22 with it. There is a great book out, "The Evolution of God" by Richard Wright. You should read it. It is very enlightening. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Sep 25, 2009 8:53 AM:

" Show us "proof" that there is definitely NO God - Shumpy.

Then tell us how ludicrous the notion is of parallel dimensions and space-time and wormholes and the something-from-nothing absence of "time" before The Big Bang and all those other once-thought-crazy "fairytale" "stories" from modern science.

Go ahead Shumpy. Tell us that too. "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Sep 25, 2009 11:14 AM:

" Susan I read the Bible which is God breathed and it is very enlightening. God never breathed anything to Richard Wright or has Robert Wright evolved into Richard Wright. Robert Wright wrote "The Evolution of God".
God's character has never changed only man's view of God has changed many times by some men.
Susan, THE THEORY THAT NOTHING CREATED EVERYTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE! "

jrhendren wrote on Sep 25, 2009 11:43 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Sep 25, 2009 7:17 AM:
" Since there is no GOD Mr. Vanatta I certainly can't be telling HIM what standards he should have! The very concept of Grace if it is true means that Grace will be granted to everyone, believers and non-believers, otherwise grace wouldn't be GRACE it would be coercion, quid proquo, bribery. Those who created the concept created their own Catch 22 with it. There is a great book out, "The Evolution of God" by Richard Wright. You should read it. It is very enlightening. "

You are so off base as usual with your "Susanology" of God and grace. God's grace in no means means that you can do what ever and their is no consequences. Grace is given freely, just a present at a birthday. If you do not except the gift then you do not experience the joy of the gift. As so with God's grace. When one excepts Christ then they receive the gift, just as the person who opens the present at the party. You say, "Since there is no GOD Mr. Vanatta I certainly can't be telling HIM what standards he should have!" then turn around and so just that. I since you know the Presidents thoughts better then he does do you now believe you know God's better too? You should quit while your behind with a subject you know nothing about. I don't know cars very well so I don't work on them, maybe you should try not telling Christians about Christianity since you don't know what it's all about! "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 26, 2009 7:24 AM:

" Yes Mr. Vanatta it is Robert not Richard thanks for the correction. The concept of nothing from nothing was put forth by those who don't grasp what the "formless void", the "primordial stew pot", the "Logos", a "black hole" contained/s! The "formless void" by the way is line one Genesis 1. IT by the way contains everything, all the building blocks of matter and life compressed into....well the scientists describe it best "a black hole"! "

The Question wrote on Sep 26, 2009 10:10 AM:

" If everything had to be created, then who created your God, Vanatta? Super-God? "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 27, 2009 7:28 AM:

" Heavens Mr. Hendren I am not "selling Christians on Christianity". I am just correcting the errors of their ways. If you don't like being corrected perhaps you should change your ways! "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 27, 2009 8:14 AM:

" The Bible and Christianity can help a person become a better person or a worsen. Passages can be found that help you find and see the humanity of all and work for the benefit of ALL or justify the persecution of those that are different. How YOU choose to interpret the Bible and the person YOU choose to become is totally up to YOU. AND it is the same with ALL the worlds religions and non-religious teachings--they can help you grow and become a better more enlightened person or they can hold you back--increase your selfishness and self-rightousness as Mr. Hendren and Mr. Vanatta consistently demonstrate. "

jrhendren wrote on Sep 27, 2009 10:24 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Sep 27, 2009 7:28 AM:
" Heavens Mr. Hendren I am not "selling Christians on Christianity". I am just correcting the errors of their ways. If you don't like being corrected perhaps you should change your ways! "

LOL!!!! You, who does not know Christianity, is telling Christians what they believe. You really need to stick with what you know, although from most of your post I am not sure what that would be. You my friend are the one who needs to change your ways, and quit blaspheming the Lord God.
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shumphreys wrote on Sep 27, 2009 8:14 AM:
" The Bible and Christianity can help a person become a better person or a worsen. Passages can be found that help you find and see the humanity of all and work for the benefit of ALL or justify the persecution of those that are different. How YOU choose to interpret the Bible and the person YOU choose to become is totally up to YOU.

This is your biggest mistake of the Scriptures. You do not get to interpret them how you want. You do not get to take the Word of God and say, "I like this part, but not this part." By being a follower of Christ you do choose who to become, and where you will live for eternity.
________________________________________

"AND it is the same with ALL the worlds religions and non-religious teachings--they can help you grow and become a better more enlightened person or they can hold you back--increase your selfishness and self-rightousness as Mr. Hendren and Mr. Vanatta consistently demonstrate. "

All the worlds religions are not the same. In fact, they are very different some not even believing in God, Heaven, or even Hell. A religion that does not believe in the Bible will not help be grow or make me more enlightened. Especially your definition of enlightenment. There is no self-rightness or selfishness. In fact, it humbles me to be allowed to have the grace of God, that I do not deserve. It is selfish of you to believe that no matter what one does or believes does not matter. You can learn from non-religious teachings, and one should know the religions of the world. Especially if they are going to teach the Word of God, or have friends of other religions they are going to talk to about their faith. You in the past have misquoted not only Christianity, but other religions beliefs. Again try sticking with another subject. "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 28, 2009 7:39 AM:

" Unfortunately Mr. Hendren people do interpret the scriptures many different ways, they do pick and choose the parts of the Bible that fit their agenda and ignore the parts that don't. You again are the perfect example. You consistently ignore Matthew 25:31.... The Bible has even been translated very differently in many different versions solely for the purpose of putting forth the agenda of the translator. The Bible is the word of men claiming to have been inspired by their God. It is still a very good book and well worth reading for those that are willing to plumb its depths and THINK about what it has to say. You don't appear to be one of those people. "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 28, 2009 7:43 AM:

" Oh and Mr. Hendren there are more similarities between the worlds religions than you comprehend. The one important similarity the only thing that really matters in the end is that they ALL have realized that it isn't what you believe it is your day to day actions, how you treat your fellow man, ALL of them especially those that are different from you.It's being able to turn your ME upside down to find the WE. "

jrhendren wrote on Sep 29, 2009 2:15 AM:

" shumphreys wrote on Sep 28, 2009 7:39 AM:
" Unfortunately Mr. Hendren people do interpret the scriptures many different ways, they do pick and choose the parts of the Bible that fit their agenda and ignore the parts that don't. You again are the perfect example. You consistently ignore Matthew 25:31.... "

You are right it is unfortunate people interpret the Scriptures differently and pick what they want for their agenda, as you do. Funny you mention that which you do. Taking Jesus' teachings as good, but him being the Son of God, as false.
I don't suppose you would want to explain your accusation regarding Matthew 25:31.... would you? I know of what the passages are speaking of. You on the other hand not being a believer do not believe in Heaven nor that Christians help or do as the Scriptures say, because we do not live in a gray area world. Your statement are even more proof of your telling Christians what they are to believe.
________________________________________

The Bible has even been translated very differently in many different versions solely for the purpose of putting forth the agenda of the translator."

Nice comment without proof as we have come to expect from you.
________________________________________

The Bible is the word of men claiming to have been inspired by their God. It is still a very good book and well worth reading for those that are willing to plumb its depths and THINK about what it has to say. You don't appear to be one of those people. "

No I do, and believe in it, that is one of our big differences. I do not see it as just a book men wrote, but the inspired word of God. You do not believe in him, so can not understand that. That is the problem, you see Christians as "stupid" for believing in some "made up God". I have studied the Scriptures, I say this not as bragging but as truth, a lot longer and in more depth then you have a guarantee. I have devoted years to getting in its "depths and THINK(ING) about what it has to say." It is you who does not understand what it says, yet tell others what it says and what to believe.
________________________________________

shumphreys wrote on Sep 28, 2009 7:43 AM:
" Oh and Mr. Hendren there are more similarities between the worlds religions than you comprehend. The one important similarity the only thing that really matters in the end is that they ALL have realized that it isn't what you believe it is your day to day actions, how you treat your fellow man,." ALL of them especially those that are different from you.It's being able to turn your ME upside down to find the WE. "

That again is a false statement. The Christian church does not believe in salvation through works, or your "day to day actions". The Scriptures say that you must have faith, and by faith you will have deeds. They go together you can't have one with out the other. "'But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."' Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do." - James 2:18 The Christian church believes in One God, as others believe in many or none as in Atheism. Some Do not believe in Hell, as the Christian church does. Sorry all roads do not lead to the same place. Study and you will see. You can make your personal false accusations against me all you want. I see them as a blessing, and pray that as you do so you learn of your wrong ways. As for the Christian church, they are they only ones who say anyone can come to Christ and be with God in Heaven. We do not exclude, as some do. We do believe one must follow Christ's teachings on moral matters, but that it is a choice. We do not ostracize those that are not Christians. We do not call them such as "infidels", or have no socialization with them because they are not us, as the Mormon church is instructed. Oh wait that is just two more examples of the differences isn't it. Of course we no that does not matter, facts that is. I mean look at the President's plan you were shown facts there and ignored them. "

jrhendren wrote on Sep 29, 2009 2:16 AM:

" I would like to take the time to apologize for the "hijacking" I have let Susan drag me into of this topic. "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 29, 2009 12:51 PM:

" I didn't drag you into this topic Mr. Hendren you initiated it. I started with a comment addressed to the last paragraph in the letter "Jesus told us that we will always have the poor with us." I asked if Evelyn if Jesus said to look the other way and let the poor die for lack of water or food to drink? I have said many times that if someone is going to use the Bible to justify their inaction and in some cases outright persecution of others than I can and will show where the Bible can be used to justify the taking care of others, and is against the persecution of others. AND that Mr. Hendren is what "good works" are about, doing unto others what you would have them do unto you. A sentiment that is common to ALL the worlds religions and appeared in Confucianism and the thinking of those great Pagan Greek philosophers long before it appeared in the Bible. Until you take that one concept to heart you will never find your way to God or Jesus or Allah or Heaven or Nirvana or whatever it is you seek. "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Sep 29, 2009 7:05 PM:

" Susan Humphreys you are one mixed up and lost puppy. Mr Hendren does not have to "find his way to God" because God came to him. No one can earn their salvation it is not possible.

Ephesians 2:8-9 (NKJV)
For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
not of works, lest anyone should boast. "

jrhendren wrote on Sep 29, 2009 11:32 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Sep 29, 2009 12:51 PM:
" ... Mr. Hendren is what "good works" are about, doing unto others what you would have them do unto you. A sentiment that is common to ALL the worlds religions and appeared in Confucianism and the thinking of those great Pagan Greek philosophers long before it appeared in the Bible.

Again with the lies that all religions are alike. Many of the world religions you speak of say to only be kind to your own, and not to others. In fact, some even state to kill those who do not believe as you. Unlike Christianity that says the complete opposite.
________________________________________

"Until you take that one concept to heart you will never find your way to God or Jesus or Allah or Heaven or Nirvana or whatever it is you seek. "

I have found the one true God, and his son Jesus. No on second thought he found me, and I excepted him. You are the one who needs to listen to him and leave these false gods behind. Your religious beliefs say that all is one, well that is not so. God is a God of love, and these false gods, like Allah is not. God's word does not speak of killing those who do not believe, as the Koran does. It speaks of loving all, even those who do not believe in him. That that love towards others is the best witness you can be. That does not mean you are to love their sin, and act like no matter what it is okay. You really need to do some more studying before speaking of your own interpretation of the Scriptures. "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 30, 2009 7:34 AM:

" Mr. Vanatta what Mr. Hendren has found isn't GOD. Whether someone has to earn their salvation is up for grabs, totally dependant upon your interpretation of the Bible. The fact is that if the concept of Grace is true, if Grace will be granted to you, than it will be granted to everyone. If grace will only be granted to those that believe than it isn't grace at all. Personally those that are concerned about their "salvation/everlasting life" have missed the boat. That isn't what Jesus was ever talking about, it is a made up fantasy by those who are afraid of life. "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 1, 2009 12:03 AM:

" shumphreys wrote on Sep 30, 2009 7:34 AM:
" Mr. Vanatta what Mr. Hendren has found isn't GOD. Whether someone has to earn their salvation is up for grabs, totally dependant upon your interpretation of the Bible. The fact is that if the concept of Grace is true, if Grace will be granted to you, than it will be granted to everyone. If grace will only be granted to those that believe than it isn't grace at all.

Once again you are wrong. Then that has become the norm. You do not believe in God, and therefor do not know what it even means to know Him. As for grace being for everyone, it is but it must be excepted. As I explained using the "present" analogy, thought it must have been to hard for you to understand. Grace, like a present must be opened to receive it. God, says "Here is my grace do you want it?" It is up to each individual to take it or leave it. That is called free will. You really need to try a new argument this one has more holes then Swiss cheese.
________________________________________

"Personally those that are concerned about their "salvation/everlasting life" have missed the boat. That isn't what Jesus was ever talking about, it is a made up fantasy by those who are afraid of life."

Again speaking of something you know nothing about. I guess like the President you now know better then Jesus what he was saying? Jesus spoke verses regarding "salvation/everlasting life". Here are two for you:

"Jesus said to him, "Today salvation has come to this house, because this man, too, is a son of Abraham. For the Son of Man came to seek and to save what was lost."" - Luke 19:9-10

"I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life. I am the bread of life." - John 6:47-48

Sorry Susan it is you who has missed the boat, just as those in Noah's days. Your trying to make the Scriptures, scriptures you do not believe in, say what they do not is useless. As I have said before you have the right, do to free will, to not believe in God. However, just because you do not believe does not mean he does not exist. Your religion says he does not, mine says he does. You try to make all religions fit your "cookie cutter" and it just does not work that way. The many religions of the world do not worship the same God, and do NOT believe the "all roads lead to the same place" theology you want them to. The sooner you realize that, the sooner your religious post will make sense. "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 1, 2009 7:26 AM:

" Oh Mr. Hendren read your own words, you reinforced my point, Grace if grace is true is available to everyone, believer and non-believer. You are right about someone having to accept it! You do have to be willing to forgive yourself before the benefits will come to you whether you believe those benefits come from a God or are inherent to the reality of the human condition and the commonalities among all humans! "

shumphreys wrote on Oct 1, 2009 7:31 AM:

" One more thing Mr. Hendren anyone who is as frightened as you and Mr. Vanatta are of those that are different from you (homosexuals, people of other religious beliefs and no beliefs) and seek justification for their persecution of others in the Bible hasn't found God. You have a long way to go. "

jrhendren wrote on Oct 2, 2009 1:24 AM:

" shumphreys wrote on Oct 1, 2009 7:26 AM:
" Oh Mr. Hendren read your own words, you reinforced my point, Grace if grace is true is available to everyone, believer and non-believer. You are right about someone having to accept it! You do have to be willing to forgive yourself before the benefits will come to you whether you believe those benefits come from a God or are inherent to the reality of the human condition and the commonalities among all humans! "

Wrong again! You can not forgive yourself and receive God's grace. What you are trying to say is. "If I buy a present myself and put the Presidents name on it, then that means he gave it to me." That does not work. You can not receive forgivness from God, because you think you deserve it. Grace is available to all. All who believe in the name of Christ. Thus receiving the present. This is a concept even my youngest can understand, wonder why you can not. Wonder if it has more with unwillingness to understand?
________________________________________

shumphreys wrote on Oct 1, 2009 7:31 AM:
" One more thing Mr. Hendren anyone who is as frightened as you and Mr. Vanatta are of those that are different from you (homosexuals, people of other religious beliefs and no beliefs) and seek justification for their persecution of others in the Bible hasn't found God. You have a long way to go. "

LOL!!!!!! Who is frightened by "homosexuals, people of other religious beliefs and no beliefs"? You know nothing about me. I have said before I have family and friends who are homosexual and of different beliefs. You have a long way to go. You who does not understand the Scriptures and has even persecuted any man with feminine tendencies. You are the one who searches for justification in persecuting anyone who believes in God and his Son Jesus. You do the very things you accuse others of over and over again. I again can not help laughing at your refusal to admit you know nothing of what you are talking about, from the President's plan, to the Scriptures of the Bible. LOL!!! Good try but sorry you fail again. "