" Look up Iowas sales tax. It isn't close to being over 8%, in small towns like ours, from what I could find. What I saw, was the state base is 6%, and 1% out of that goes to schools.

Why are the sales pitches still stuck on apples and oranges comparisons? Evidently they paid good money from the consultant for the scripted talking points, and they are going to keep trying to sell the snake oil, no matter what the price.

Here is the illinois association of school boards info on the possibilities of this sales tax.

www.iasb.com/journal/j070808_05.cfm

Here is a quote from the site.
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The sales tax can be applied as long as there is outstanding bonded debt and can not be eliminated as long as that debt exists. As long as debt remains on bonds issued by any district in the county, the county board is prohibited from terminating the sales tax. Twenty years is typically the longest term for these types of bonds and in some rare cases, up to 40 years. Once the bond payment has been fulfilled for any bonds issued relying on the sales tax for payment, the sales tax can be eliminated.
---

Seems the referendum being put on in a primary was also being court tested, not sure if a decision on that has resulted yet.

Now the figure is 4.45 million in county wide revenue per year. They still don't present what this tax is expected to bring in 4.45 million from. That means just this will cost folks 4.45 million more dollars to only be able to buy at the exact same levels they have been, besides all the other tax hikes, fee increases, sin and other taxes being heaped on.

In an area bogged down by stagnation long before economic issues hit the rest of the country, pulling 4.45 million out off the top of buying power being utilized here, is probably going to impact some people, some business, some jobs.

The "swap" is in no way guaranteed, to ever happen or to be kept, maintained at any level, but this does open a new door for leveraging building bonds till the cows come home.

One source suggests population in Mattoon has dropped 4.7%, Charleston's has dropped 3.6%, since 2000.

There is a $8,783 difference between Mattoon and Charleston's median incomes.

Cost of living index has Charleston's higher than Mattoon by 6.2 points.

The last thing long term stagnation needs is another trash pump hose stuck in the pond to fill up yet another slush fund pool.

Asking for this is irresponsible and completely ignores local reality yet again. Why aren't they clear and upfront with what exactly is going to be taxed to bring in a projected 4.45 million a year? If its as good a deal as they say, they shouldn't need to stick so closely and exclusively to paid consultant crafted talking points, to sell it.

Just Mattoon has many building projects they still want. The site I gave suggests something called double barrel bonds are capable of being leveraged on both this sales tax, and backed up with the additional property tax they force the new schools down citizens throats with.

They had 24 million plus in savings, when they pulled that stunt, it is gone, and they have abated only 4.4 million over the last few years.

Some folks think this might be worth a possible shift of $173 or $136 per year from their property taxes. School districts have sought max levy and had that big hike right before PTELL kicked in. Nothing suggests that will change, or will force it to.

Why do they base this on 100k property assessments, but their levy hikes have been consistently presented based on 60k. Creative accounting practices at their finest. It only takes $17,300 or $13,600 in county conducted business or transactions taxable by this, to erase that reduction if it happens, and there is absolutely no guarantee it will, or would be maintained. "

" We want it because Iowa has it! Wow, what a way to justify asking for a tax increase. I agree that this is just a thinly veiled attempt to get around PTELL. They shoved the new schools down our throats and now they want to add a tax increase to pay them off.

Vote NO on any additional taxes. "

" I would go for this idea if the property tax cut was signed at the same time the tax increase is signed. Trouble is on these so called swaps, when the tax increase is enacted, they forget to cut the property taxes. "

" Obviously, this is NOT a dollar-for-dollar swap so the question is how much additional taxes are going to be collected from Coles County residents to "offset" the property tax reductions?

To the larger picture, can our educators spell recession? Is it prudent to raise any taxes while the economy is in trouble? "

" Sales tax is regressive, hitting the people who can least afford to pay it the hardest. Too bad supposedly educated people never bother to address that injustice. "

" Yeah Yeah, Blah Blah Blah, and The Check is in the mail, The Cubs win the world Series, and Hell just froze over... "

" TO: The Question :

It looks like I was Referring to your post with my blah statement, but that is not the case, I was referring to the article that was written. Sorry...The J.G. sometimes posts our comments so it looks like we are bickering.... "

" So, go ahead and lower our property taxes (yeah, sure, like that's actually going to happen) and raise the sales tax. I've got 100 to one bets that because of this little brain storm sales tax revenue will actually go down because people will either stop buying here and go where it's cheaper or they will trade and barter with their friends and neighbors for what they want/need. It seems these politicians haven't studied history. Every time they raise taxes for a so-called good cause, they end up losing money because we the people find even more iventive ways around it. Sheese! Make a budget and STICK TO IT!!! Yes, it really is that simple. "

" No problem, Danny. "

" Weve got bigger problems than this. This is why we need a national sales tax. You have to move up the ladder farther. This stuff here is just smoke and mirrors. Why arent we getting upset about everything? Its time for a revolution, Culp said.

This man speaks the truth, and makes a lot of sense. "

" Perhaps more than 30 can wander over to,

www.topix.com/forum/city/charleston-il

to have a longer lasting discussion of the pro's and cons of the proposed county wide sales tax for schools.

No registration required, but it is allowed, and no long moderator que. Some posts don't cross the divide for some reason, which may also be some of what is happening with this site. If it goes through it should show up immediately, there. "

" Just wondering the Property Tax Relief is at the same time. In fact it is law. In fact all of Iowa's schools began doing this so they passed a state wide law. I suggest that if you have more questions about the property tax relief that you contact your legislators they can give you more information. "

" Becky-Do you shop in Champaign? I bet at times that you do. In fact this last spring Champaign passed this exact same sales tax increase. "

" Well, well, well...everyone complains that property taxes are too high, so they try to do something about it and you all just b.... and moan. They have not asked for the max levy according to PTELL for the last number of years; and, oh yeah, the budget surplus is gone because the anti-tax school board slate you all elected about 5 years ago to "reign in the taxes" started abating back money to everyone, WHICH THEY DID NOT HAVE TO DO,and demanded spending down the surplus to nothing.

If you would actually try to have a discussion with Tom Sherman, the Assistant Superintendent of Business, I doubt that he would tell you that the administration wanted to deplete the surplus, it was the school board.

Yes, the swap is the law. The school district would trade out that portion of the property tax it asks for. THAT DOES NOT AND NEVER WILL GUARANTEE that the city, or Lake Land, or the county, etc...will not raise their levies.

All of you intelligent people out there, since Illinois is 45th in state funding of education (and has not come through on its payments lately besides) and the $80 billion promised by the Bush Administration for NCLB has been more like $20 billion, please educate us how the school districts can try to educate the children without using tax money revenue. I know I would like to know.

And ultimately, if you do not like it, sell your house and move somewhere with cheaper taxes; and then see what jobs those students are working in 10 and 20 years.

Finally, remember; this is going to be a referendum on 2/2/2010; if you want to see property taxes stay at this level and not get some out-of-city people to help with the schools, then simply go to the ballot and fail the referendum. Just remember, more referendums will keep coming and next time, it might not be a tax swap, but a property tax hike because the state continues to renege on its piss poor funding of education in this state! "

" The Mattoon school board has proven that it can't be trusted before. So why should we trust them now? "

" I thought that this is what citizens have been wanting, property tax relief! Now that there is a chance for it, people are balking. Educating our children cost money, and it is an investment for our future. You can't get something for nothing. "

" A few things I got from the Champaign vote was the rebate was not guaranteed, and never would be. The schoolboard there was adamant that they were not required, but it would be provided as they saw fit. The county board has to approve the tax, even after the referendum passes if it were to. They are not in any way obligated to. This was a big selling point up there probably for two reasons. One it would mean another board had to take the heat or credit for enacting it. Another the school board and administration could blame the county board if needed come election time, since they get the last word on the matter being enacted or not, if the voters approve it getting to them to do so.

How much is administration costs eating up out of the over 9k per student 35 million+ budget? They resorted to cutting teachers rather than bloated sallaries in the old post office, and other positions. How much does the superintendant make including benefits and expenses?

They still have plans for more construction. More than a million dollar transportation complex to run 35 leased busses from. Ignorant illconceived mismanagement ate up the surplus. Expensive aesthetics, carpeted hallways, and other debacles ate through free taxdollar money and still is.

They already have trouble managing their 35 million annual budget. Another 2.3 million would put their coffers in an even more fluidly distributed and unobstructed or unconfined by voter approval which they abused the last outing that happened.

Another 1% sales tax, will further hobble the long stagnant local situation. They seem to think local taxpayer will buy that coles county is a tourist/traveler trap enough that this will be minimal impact to local business and transactions.

To get 4.45 million from this what ever the tax impacts, which they refuse to be clear and upfront on, evidently has an established record of 445 million.

Also several large overpriced land and property transactions have happened in Mattoon township. The futuregen and flood pond land buys. It is very probable next years assessment for that township is going to see a reflective multiplier.

Now proponents are delusional enough to suggest people seeking clarification and answers should move, rather than question vage talking points and reporting. CU#2 has a track record of its ability to budget and manage money responsibly. they have painted themselves into a corner on options and this circumvention mechanism is their ticket out of that shortsighted reality.

Who is to say additional resources, wont find even more cuts in state funding and grant possibilities being overlooked.

They spent over 9k per student last year, and failed to make the grade in math. I don't know much about the working of NCLBH, but was that enough to allow parents to transfer students out, or what degree of failures opens that door?

The referendums being put on primary ballots instead of a regular electon, was being contested in court, in May 2008. Why are they trying to put this up for a vote in a typically low turn out primary election, if it is all they sell it, through carefully crafted paid consultant drafted talking points, to be? "

" Iowa's base state sales tax rate was 5%, and increased state wide to 6%, with the additional 1% going to schools. Since then they have moved to not keep those dollars where they are collected, but to spread them out more throughout the state.

How is 6%, 1% of which goes to schools, anything close to how Illinois has handled it. If it passes, coles county will have sales tax from 7%, 7.5%, or 8.5%, thanks to the kicker tax and imposed shopping tolls that were voter circumvented.

The kicker tax has been hijacked to now backing 6 million in bonds for pet projects, evidently. How or when that transpired has yet to be openly reported. If it is structured like this proposal, the tax can't be removed, if they have bonds leveraged by it, so perpetual leverage schemes are going to be the insurance against voters being able to remove any they passed.

People do need to get informed and follow their guts, on what is best for them, but I see this as very detrimental to potential for future sustainable development, growth, and opportunities. Taking 4.45 million off the top of local purchasing power is not chump change. If sustainable growth were to happen, and the tax base began to increase, that would force more rebates than this ever could. Focus has been on short sighted gains, while the foundations are eroding out from under nearly everything.

Leaders failed to get the message of PTELL, and a new independant funding source could only perpetuate bad behaviors. Telling them to live within their means, then adding 2.3 million to those means is a bit of a mixed message. 2.3 isn't the limit of new potential, it just has to cover the annual bond payments they leverage against it. Its hard to get local reality recognized and acknowledged, if new free money keeps falling in the laps of the delusional. The money tree orchard has been ignored. If this cuts spending further, it cuts a lot of throats.

If this were any possible literal comparison to Iowa, it would be a great option. It only compares because both were 1%, nothing else is close to being in the same conversation.

The state has also proposed ending the bounty business gets for collecting sales taxes and applying that to schools.

The lottery was going to save education. Look at how it was hijacked for all kinds of other funding, then came riverboats, then more and more gambling expansion, and they are still flat skint broke. Talk is cheap, and politicians at all levels in this state, sell a lot of snake oil.

How is the school district going to be even more responsible with its expenses, in return for voters approving this. Perhaps they should draft some binding rules, to limit extravagant extras, and do some administration cost restructuring. "

" ak927 wrote on Sep 14, 2009 7:51 PM:

" Becky-Do you shop in Champaign?

No, not really. Actually, I'm not much of a shopper in retail. I go to second hand shops, auctions, farmers markets and make much of what I need. All that I was saying was that I don't believe for one minute that property taxes will go down. Maybe for the first year but our esteemed gubment will have some excuse or another for hiking it right back to where it is now. I've never met a politician that didn't LOVE taxes and I've never heard of lowered taxes staying low. Champaign is way too high for shopping. If I shop retail, I do try to stick to local shops to help out our community. "

" I thought that this is what citizens have been wanting, property tax relief! Now that there is a chance for it, people are balking. Educating our children cost money, and it is an investment for our future. You can't get something for nothing...

Yes, but...

How much money does the Mattoon school district lose from the practice of tax abatement's? If memory serves me, a certain local company bought the old Masonic lodge a few years back for a paltry sum, invested several million in it's rehab, and then finagled to get the taxes abated for something like 20 years. How widespread has this practice been? I could be wrong, but I'm willing to bet it's happened a lot, and the result has been to shift a bigger portion of the tax burden off onto homeowners. The simple reality is that people are fed up with paying more taxes, and this latest idea is in for a struggle, as people are not going to buy into the promise that property taxes will be lowered with its passage. The good people of Mattoon are right in their distrust in anything said by any board. The voters have not forgotten the end run made by a past board that circumvented the wishes of the tax payers. Past school boards have mislead us before with false promises and underhanded maneuvers.

I can only imagine the costs for what they have in mind for another yet another expensive building to house the rented buses they use. I suppose they've put that one on the back burner until they see how much money they can squeeze out of the taxpayers.

I would like to see a listing of the tax abatement's Mattoon has given and how this has affected the local schools income. Does anyone know how to get this information? Too bad we don't have a newspaper willing to tackle this question, but I'm sure they will be doing editorials pushing for this latest idea. Watch for it, it's coming. "

" Don't forget the revenue given up by sitting quietly on their hands while Mattoon went completely TIF wild. Most places the biggest opponents of TIF abuse and misuse are school districts, libraries, and other tax bodies impacted by the sequestering. Mattoon should be dividing its increased sales tax collections with the other tax bodies impacted by its TIF schemes.

First the libraries, and now the schools want more money from new sources, when they sat back and watched as spectators while more and more of their potential for sustainable revenue growth was hobbled by irresponsible use, inclusion, and outright abuse of TIF, Enterprize zones, and Business districts.

They whine about the state not paying its bills, like citizens aren't impacted by that same reality in varous ways as well.

They already have 35 million plus, to spend more than 9k per student annually, and want more. Who doesn't. "

" Here are some more excerpts from the Illinois Association of School Boards site I posted above.
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The sales tax increase is limited to a maximum of 1 percent, or a penny on each dollar, and can be raised in increments of a quarter-percent. General merchandise is taxable (excluding vehicles, watercraft, aircraft, trailers, mobile homes and medical supplies), but the county sales tax will not be collected on food and drugs. Agricultural sales, such as farm equipment, feed, seed, fertilizer, chemicals and livestock reproduction, are subject to the tax.
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While the county sales tax has its positives, it also has a few negatives. The first is that this is a tax and will result in a slight cost increase in merchandise for consumers. The other negative is that it is regarded as a "regressive tax," one that affects lower income population more than upper income brackets.
---
Once a sales tax question is passed in the county and the schools learn how much revenue it will generate, the district can sell alternate revenue bonds or "double-barreled" bonds. These bonds combine the benefits of revenue bonds with general obligation bonds.
---
"Revenue Bonds are bonds that are payable from a pledge of the proceeds against a specific tax. Unlike General Obligation bonds and their unlimited ability to raise taxes, with these bonds, the issuer is limited as to its source for the revenue to pay the bonds. These bonds are quite safe.

"General Obligation Bonds are backed by the full faith and credit of the issuer for prompt payment of principal and interest. Many bonds issued by a city, county, or school district, also have the added security that they can raise property taxes to assure payment. This guarantee is of an unlimited nature. The issuer can raise taxes as high as they want to pay the bonds. If the property tax is not paid, the property can be sold at auction giving the bond holder a superior claim above mortgages, mechanical liens, and other encumbrances.

"General Obligation bonds are usually analyzed in terms of the size of the taxable resources. These bonds are regarded as very safe."

Combining these two types of bonds is often referred to as "double-barreled bonds." These bonds are considered safe as they have two pledged sources of security: revenue from the project and the taxing power of the issuer.

Alternate revenue bonds do not count against the district's bonded debt limit or the Debt Service Extension Base if they are a PTELL district. Because of this, the school is permitted to sell bonds up to the amount that the revenue from the sales tax can support.
--- "

" How much money did local tax bodies loose speculating in stock markets and other funds or risks?

Last year or so, the school district and others were saying that when state payments came early, they could put them in various funds and speculations until the bills they were for were actually due. How much did they make, in doing this, how much have they lost? "

" " How much money did local tax bodies loose speculating in stock markets and other funds or risks?

Good question, Mike P. If they had actually made and money we would be hearing about it. "

" Just my Take on this situation. Mike P you make very valid points. I agree with you on 99% of this issue.

But, I am sick and tired of this more tax for the poor and a tax break for the wealthy. What this comes down to is: Should all property owners be required to carry this burden? How many people rent and enjoy the success of our local schools (and pay no taxes)? Shouldn't the burden of supporting our schools and our future generations' success be shared by all?

I agree... the county board would have to approve the tax. I am sure they will listen to the will of the people as to which way the vote goes.
(That is if they want Re-Elected)

Lastly... our local school district is not required to then lower our property taxes. Will they? Good question. I have faith in the people we have in place to do the right thing for the good of our community. "

" bcdbaker, with all due respect, do you really think renters don't pay property taxes? True, they don't get a bill like home owners do, but they do pay even though it's done indirectly. I'm a landlord, and believe me the cost of property taxes is built into the rental price with all landlords. "

" Renters of houses result in higher tax collections. Those properties don't get the many possible deductions owner occupieds get. I don't know how apartments work, but rental houses are fully contributing cash cows for property taxes.

500 a month rent is 6k a year. 700 is 8400. Minus taxes, and any maintenance or repairs, often leaves only a few k per year, if the property is paid off. If it is financed, and unforseen expenses arise, things can easily get tight in a hurry. "

" Well... we wouldn't have this problem if Mr. Lilly and Mr. Littleford were made aware of the people's opinion.

No, not just writing a post here. Give them a call, at 3:00 AM, and let them know. If they don't answer the phone, drop by their house and give them a piece of your mind, or a rock, through a window.

Maybe then they'll understand. "

" Doesn't the school board hire or "retire" /fire them? Don't they set their sallaries, raises benefits? Don't they dot hat for other positions, vote on where money goes or doesn't, and set the goals, priorities, and direction the districts take?

Did Mattoon have NCLBH compliance issues this year too? "