Now Driving Online Now Hiring Online Home Seller Subscribe to the JG-TC
12°F
Severe
Who should Democrats choose as their lieutenant governor candidate?
More
Thomas Castillo
Mike Boland
Terry Link
Other
View Results
 






 
Tuesday, September 8, 2009 9:38 PM CDT
Fines proposed for going without health insurance



WASHINGTON (AP) — Americans would be fined up to $3,800 for failing to buy health insurance under a plan that circulated in Congress on Tuesday as divisions among Democrats undercut President Barack Obama’s effort to regain traction on his health care overhaul.

As Obama talked strategy with Democratic leaders at the White House, the one idea that most appeals to his party’s liberal base lost ground in Congress. Prospects for a government-run plan to compete with private insurers sank as a leading moderate Democrat said he could no longer support the idea.

The fast-moving developments put Obama in a box. As a candidate, he opposed fines to force individuals to buy health insurance, and he supported setting up a public insurance plan. On Tuesday, fellow Democrats publicly begged to differ on both ideas.

Democratic congressional leaders put on a bold front as they left the White House after their meeting with the president.

“We’re re-energized; we’re ready to do health care reform,” said Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid of Nevada.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., insisted the public plan is still politically viable. “I believe that a public option will be essential to our passing a bill in the House of Representatives,” she said.

After a month of contentious forums, Americans were seeking specifics from the president in his speech to a joint session of Congress tonight. So were his fellow Democrats, divided on how best to solve the problem of the nation’s nearly 50 million uninsured.

The latest proposal: a 10-year, $900-billion bipartisan compromise that Sen. Max Baucus, D-Mont., a moderate who heads the influential Finance Committee, was trying to broker. It would guarantee coverage for nearly all Americans, regardless of medical problems.

But the Baucus plan also includes the fines that Obama has rejected. In what appeared to be a sign of tension, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs pointedly noted that the administration had not received a copy of the plan before it leaked to lobbyists and news media Tuesday.

The Baucus plan would require insurers to take all applicants, regardless of age or health. But smokers could be charged higher premiums. And 60-year-olds could be charged five times as much for a policy as 20-year-olds.

Baucus said Tuesday he’s trying to get agreement from a small group of bipartisan negotiators in advance of Obama’s speech. “Time is running out very quickly,” he said. “I made that very clear to the group.”

Some experts consider the $900-billion price tag a relative bargain because the country now spends about $2.5 trillion a year on health care. But it would require hefty fees on insurers, drug companies and others in the health care industry to help pay for it.

Just as auto coverage is now mandatory in nearly all states, Baucus would require that all Americans get health insurance once the system is overhauled. Penalties for failing to do so would start at $750 a year for individuals and $1,500 for families. Households making more than three times the federal poverty level — about $66,000 for a family of four — would face the maximum fines. For families, it would be $3,800, and for individuals, $950.

Baucus would offer tax credits to help pay premiums for households making up to three times the poverty level, and for small employers paying about average middle-class wages. People working for companies that offer coverage could avoid the fines by signing up.

The fines pose a dilemma for Obama. As a candidate, the president campaigned hard against making health insurance a requirement, and fining people for not getting it.

“Punishing families who can’t afford health care to begin with just doesn’t make sense,” he said during his party’s primaries. At the time, he proposed mandatory insurance only for children.

White House officials have since backed away somewhat from Obama’s opposition to mandated coverage for all, but there’s no indication that Obama would support fines.

One idea that Obama championed during and since the campaign — a government insurance option — appeared to be sinking fast.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer, D-Md., told reporters a Medicare-like plan for middle-class Americans and their families isn’t an essential part of legislation for him. Hoyer’s comments came shortly after a key Democratic moderate said he could no longer back a bill that includes a new government plan.

That left liberals in a quandary. They’ve drawn a line, saying they won’t vote for legislation if it doesn’t include a public plan to compete with private insurance companies and force them to lower costs.

Rep. Mike Ross, D-Ark., who once supported a public option, said Tuesday that after hearing from constituents during the August recess, he’s changed his mind.

“If House leadership presents a final bill that contains a government-run public option, I will oppose it,” Ross said.

Democrats are considering a fallback: using the public plan as a last resort if after a few years the insurance industry has failed to curb costs. That’s an approach being pushed in the Senate by Olympia Snowe, R-Maine, a moderate whose support could be critical to any health legislation.

Obama’s commitment to a public plan has been in question and lawmakers hoped his speech to Congress would make his position on that clear. Snowe said Tuesday that Obama’s been open to her fallback idea.

“He has not rejected it. He’s been receptive, recognizing that there’s difficulties with the public option,” Snowe said. “The president recognizes that there’s strong reluctance among the American people” to accepting a public plan, which Republicans have cast as a government take-over.

Baucus is calling for nonprofit co-ops to compete in the marketplace instead of a public plan.

An 18-page summary of the Baucus proposal was obtained by The Associated Press. The complex plan would make dozens of changes in the health care system, many of them contentious. For example, it includes new fees on insurers, drug companies, medical device manufacturers and clinical labs.

People working for major employers would probably not see big changes. The plan is geared to helping those who now have the hardest time getting and keeping coverage: the self-employed and small business owners.

————

Associated Press writers Erica Werner, Ben Feller, Alan Fram and Jim Abrams contributed to this report.

 


Share:          Submit to Reddit         Add to My Yahoo!   



  Add your comments

*Member ID:
*Password:
Remember login?
(requires cookies)
  Forgot Your Password?
 

Not already registered?
Then click Here.


JG-TC.com encourages readers to engage in civil conversation with their neighbors. Comments that are submitted are not posted to the site immediately. They go into a queue to be moderated and may take several hours to be reviewed. Comments posted on Saturday may not be reviewed until Sunday afternoon.

In order to keep the page a set width, long lines (mostly long links) will be chopped. Try putting spaces in your links or consider using tinyurl.com to make a smaller link that you can include.

We will never edit or alter your comments, but we do reserve the right to remove comments that violate our code of conduct.

No comment may contain:

* Potentially libelous statements; such as accusing somebody of a crime, defamation of character, or statements that can harm somebody's reputation.
* Obscene, explicit, or racist language.
* Personal attacks, insults, threats, harassment or inciting violence.
* Commercial product promotions.

If you have any questions, please contact our moderator.


jrhendren wrote on Sep 9, 2009 12:03 AM:

" Americans would be fined up to $3,800 for failing to buy health insurance under a plan that circulated in Congress on Tuesday as divisions among Democrats undercut President Barack Obamas effort to regain traction on his health care overhaul.


You have to be kidding me. I hope the President stays with what he has said in the past and says, "NO!" to fines. What's next, "Fining those who did not take part in Cash for Clunkers? "

AnnaNiemaus wrote on Sep 9, 2009 6:20 AM:

" If I don't get health "insurance" and I don't pay the fine, will I go to jail and have health care provided for me? "

original townie wrote on Sep 9, 2009 11:23 AM:

" Only in America! Land of the free and home of the fine. "

Airy Dite wrote on Sep 9, 2009 2:51 PM:

" Say this were to pass - heaven forbid - in whose pocket would the $3800 end up? "

devilishangel61401 wrote on Sep 9, 2009 5:32 PM:

" I really hope Obama stays with saying "no" to these fines!! I really don't see how they can fine people for not having health insurance, if you can't afford the insurance coverage then how are you supposed to afford the fines?? What about those who fall under the federal poverty guidelines? Those on Medicaid/Medicare are they going to get the mandated insurance for free, are people going to have to relinquish their current insurance in order to have this plan? I did read through most of the proposed bill online and I didn't see this possible fine listed anywhere in the bill, are these fines fact or specualtion?? Im confused yet again. "

LOKI wrote on Sep 9, 2009 7:34 PM:

" Welcome to the U.S.S.A everyone! Mother America welcomes you! Now give us all your money or we will fine you and make you work for one of our many government run programs/companies. "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 9, 2009 9:45 PM:

" I wonder if maybe we could get a "plea agreement" since we are from Coles County??? "

dragula_1712002 wrote on Sep 9, 2009 11:07 PM:

" how about we try to be like canand, common people half of us cant afford health insurance which is why we do not have it, so whos gonna pay for our fines when we go to jail for that one, itll blow up like the clunkers did "

Mama says wrote on Sep 10, 2009 3:18 AM:

" Up early see what comments has on the various subjects. On fineing us poor:
I can go to nursing home, have 3 meals a day, laundry and room cleaning done, someone bathe me, have 2 snacks, have plenty of ice, water, and icedtea. We will have bingo, and church meetings, and people visit us. OR can go to jail, have room and board and free up to date movies, 3 meals and a snack, laundry done for me, take college courses for FREE, have visitors, and know when coming. No taxes, no insurances, no utilities, hmmm starting to sound good since am taxed to death on social security. THE FINE be over 4 months of social security to pay, and just where would we have the money for a fine, no utilities, be one BIGGER HEADACHE and all on the poorest of the LAND. We think we have problems, have relative in Massachusetts, ALL IS HIGHER there, some other states are already higher on a lot of tax things.
I know of two families with TENTS and living in backyards of relatives. The adults and kids 16 working fast food to have food, gasoline, car insurance, and not qualify for foodstamp help at all.
No medical cards either, and they pray can get enough cash for a nice rental.
Even been turned down in public housing.
THINGS ARE IN ONE SCREWEDUP MESS FOLKS.
There are people who have nothing and stays nothing in hard times.
WE need to pray for others and try to make a change when SEE wrong on govermnet issues. God bless all who try and hope the rich politicians endup with nothing on their plates, see how good think things are for the poorer class wretches who work tails off on minimum wage to make ends meet. The relatives having it hard and cannot pay for all the food ends, so going pantry.
Jobs were cut and these good folk lost their jobs but did get on fast food.

I am praying a lot for these people and trying help with some garden food I have been given since not rich either.
Sharing makes me feel good. In two weeks the tent folk will be in a garage that is heated. They have use of a barbeque grill and camper stove. My concern would be a bathroom/shower.
FREE gas stove and refrigerator on FREE cycle will go in the garage home.
WE might END UP LIKE THIS ALSO FOLKS.

The state would have open up all the prisons to accomodate all of us. "

Hound Dog wrote on Sep 10, 2009 6:37 AM:

" Charlie Rangel apparently doesn't have to pay any IRS fines, so why should we? And how did "they" come up with the $3800? Always liked having a gun held to my head in order to make decisions. Just anti-American, and I don't like it. "

The Question wrote on Sep 10, 2009 7:34 AM:

" That's it. Turn health care reform AGAINST the poor, use it to swell the corporate bags of loot even further, spread around even more kickbacks from the health insurance cartel in the form of campaign contributions, deny people's claims even though you've extorted premiums out of them, and then claim health care reform "failed" and must never be tried again. A perfect and ruthless game plan. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 10, 2009 9:31 AM:

" I'm not for fining people for not having insurance, but this does bring up an interesting question. What about those folks who don't have insurance and are, by law, entitled to emergency health care? Ultimately we all pay for those services in higher costs. This is a problem, but I don't think fines are the answers. When the Hill/Burton act was introduced this problem was supposed to be taken care of. Unfortunately this act is abused on a regular basis, even locally. Adult children (without insurance) of the "connected" are allowed to use it just as the poor folks are. The difference is the poor are made to jump through hoops while those with connections get their bills "paid" with just a simple phone call to the right person. Ultimately the results are the same, and those costs are absorbed by all of us. Is there an answer to this problem? I don't know, but it's certainly something worth discussion. "

XTownie wrote on Sep 10, 2009 12:15 PM:

" Let's see... $3,800 is about $317/month or $73/week. How much are health insurance premiums for individuals? (rhetorical question)

I read complaints about "don't raise my taxes!", and now complaints about the possibility of being fined if no insurance is purchased. Make up your minds, people! Complaints, attacks, and "just say NO!!!" isn't getting us any closer to a solution, or making this better for ALL of us. "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 10, 2009 6:55 PM:

" Sure...'Fine' the very people (the poor) who can't afford to buy health insurance, if they don't buy health insurance.

Honestly I had a time in my life I didn't make (on paper) $3,800 buck's in a year. So, I wonder who they think their talking to.....or whose supposedly listening. If the poor get wind of this I'd say "Woops!" Now you'll really see some irate folk's.

This reek's of Bidens' stupidity: "You've got to spend money to save money". God the liberal thinking creativity to tax/fine is bewildering...it's almost funny if it wasn't so blatantly stupid. "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 10, 2009 6:57 PM:

" I wonder if Obama is going to fine "illegal aliens"
I doubt it, since he wants to give them coverage for healthcare on the backs of the taxpayers. THIS, is his lame attempt to play
Santa Claus for the illegals w/healthcare and in
return, he gets THEIR votes when he also gives
them amnesty. Nice isn't it? This "Fraud In Chief", seems to want to turn America into a third world nation that is governed by the UN
& the Euro. He is a radical who sees himself as "king of the world".....pitiful, just pitiful.
Can't wait for 2010 & 2012 to rid our country of these THUGS "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 10, 2009 8:09 PM:

" Just a guess on my part, but I'm betting cedric is a big supporter of Glen Beck. lol! "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 10, 2009 8:41 PM:

" As usual, seedy gets it wrong.

Bill Adair of Politifacts: When you look at the bill, it does go to some lengths to make sure that illegal immigrants do not get the credits for the health care exchange that would allow them to get free care. They'd have to pay for it, like everybody else. False for Wilson.


Really cedric, you need to check things out before you put your foot in your mouth. You're starting to look more foolish by the day and I'm starting to feel embarrassed for you. I would be interested to see where you got that latest piece of misinformation. How about telling us the sorce for that one? Glen Beck, Hannity or Limbaugh? "

mickeygarlock wrote on Sep 10, 2009 9:25 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Sep 10, 2009 9:31 AM:

" I'm not for fining people for not having insurance, but this does bring up an interesting question. What about those folks who don't have insurance and are, by law, entitled to emergency health care?

So, you're saying even if an illegal alien is badly injured, he should not be treated at the ER, right? "

Amber wrote on Sep 10, 2009 10:18 PM:

" Wow Harry,You are really trying to keep cedric in a straight line but i think it won't do any good. "Really cedric, you need to check things out before you put your foot in your mouth. You're starting to look more foolish by the day and I'm starting to feel embarrassed for you." You really should try another news channel cedric.Fox news have you brain washed.Wow!Don't give up Harry because i think you will get him on the right track yet-----lol "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 11, 2009 7:58 AM:

" So, you're saying even if an illegal alien is badly injured, he should not be treated at the ER, right? "

Did I say that, mickeygarlock? I don't believe I did. I merely pointed out that there is a problem with that issue and acknowledged that I don't have the answer and merely suggested it merits discussion. The reality of people using emergency rooms for primary health care as well as emergency health care is a big elephant in the middle of the room so to speak. I don't see how you could possibly come to the conclusion you did by my comments.

Perhaps you should go back and reread what I actually said. Not to be trite, but you know the old saying about breaking down the word assume. "

father bob wrote on Sep 11, 2009 9:45 AM:

" i live in a state which is about 50% hispanic, and some of those are illegals. this issue is a way of life here. there is one thing people in the midwest and elsewhere need to understand.

there is a huge difference between having access to emergency services and "healthcare".

illegals DO NOT receive treatment for day-to-day maladies, they DO have access to life threatening care.

there are some specialists who offer services through their offices or private clinics free gratis. i know of one hispanic orthopedic surgeon who sets aside two days a month for treatment/surgery for illegals. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 11, 2009 10:25 AM:

" Amber wrote on Sep 10, 2009 10:18 PM:

" Wow Harry,You are really trying to keep cedric in a straight line but i think it won't do any good.

Thanks Amber, I do try. But you're probably right, I'm addressing someone wearing blinders. lol! "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 11, 2009 4:38 PM:

" Harry is right one of the elephants in the room everyone ignores is the issue of using emergency rooms for primary care. It isn't just in New Mexico, it is common in Big cities and here in Coles County. AND we all pay for it with higher medical costs and taxes for public funded hospitals, lost job time which can be a big cost problem for employers, .. A plan to cover everyone will save everyone in the long run. "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 11, 2009 5:11 PM:

" Just a guess on my part, but I'm betting cedric is a big supporter of Glen Beck. lol

As a matter of fact, I do like Beck. Is there something that you don't like about him,like maybe what is happening at ACORN Harry !!! Does the truth really hurt your feelings about the crooks getting caught "ON TAPE"? I suppose now the tapes are fabricated or Mr. Beck just made all of this up.
I think you should read Ms. Malkin new book "CULTURE of CORRUPTION". Pretty hard to say it's not true Harry when the proof stares you in the face. and by the way, does Bimbo really need all them Bordello's? I understand age didn't make a difference either to them "

Beaches wrote on Sep 11, 2009 10:09 PM:

" I've talked to some of the ER doctors and they are tired of treating sinus infections, and colds, and basic things, but the people who don't have insurance have nowhere else to go. I sympathize, and you are correct, they have no pre-emptive care, and that is bad. But I'm supporting them by higher healthcare costs. It's a vicious circle, and one that needs to change, but those of us considered "middle income" can't keep talking the brunt of the taxes and responsibility. My standard of living is slowly creeping downward, and I'm not happy about that. "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 12, 2009 2:57 PM:

" Born in 1931 Adrian Rogers wrote "You cannot legislate the poor into prosperity by legislating the wealthy out of prosperity. What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. The government cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take from somebody else. When half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because the other half is taking care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no good to work because somebody else is going to get what they work for." This same idea will most likely happen with obamas Health care plan. Companies will find it cheaper to get fined instead of providing health insurance. Why pay when someone else will. "

Amber wrote on Sep 13, 2009 1:24 AM:

" cedric66 wrote on Sep 12, 2009 2:57pm---"Why pay when someone else will."--------------------------------------------Sounds to me like you have done this all your life cedric! "

shumphreys wrote on Sep 14, 2009 7:22 AM:

" Beaches I think that as long as people are denied health care insurance, either because of cost or health reasons, we (as in the average citizen) will continue to bear the cost of their emergency treatment, the cost of bankruptcys when a family can't pay catastrophic medical bills, (which might force them onto welfare rolls until they can get back on their feet), (foreclosures in a neighborhood affect everyones home value in that neighborhood),....there are many dominoe effects that the average citizen ends up paying the costs. Universal coverage for ALL is the ONLY solution that will reduce our costs in the long run. Pay a little more up front or a lot more later. "

 


634th families to welcome soliders home Friday

Funded by grant, extra police patrol focuses on safety

Lincoln Log Cabin seeks volunteers to work in visitors center

United Way increases funding efforts in tough times

Dispute could derail
high-speed rail in Illinois

4-H barbecue, Harvest Festival planned Saturday

Fines proposed for going without health insurance

Truck overturns while exiting I-57

Netanyahu risks US anger by building settlements

Charleston police step up alcohol patrols to thwart underage drinking

EIU fall enrollment stable near 12,000, figures show

Local schools take different approaches to president's speech

Lacking financial reports halt pair of
appointments to mental health board

Blagojevich: Words on FBI tape taken out of context

Obama's back-to-school speech inspires some kids

Mattoon school board approves balanced
budget; district reduces expenses by $1.2 million

Charges pending against suspect after weekend shootout

NYT reporter freed; Afghan aide killed in rescue

Obama urges Congress to reform health care system


 




©2007 Journal Gazette and Times-Courier, divisions of Lee Enterprises.    JG/T-C Do Not Call Policy    Privacy Policy    Contact Us
Tab
Content