" Amen Mr. Brown, finally someone addresses the real problem. Obamas plan never addresses the real problem. I have also noticed that Medicare gets by with paying less than private insurance for most procedures. Hospital claims to be a non-profit organization but it is not non-profit for the executives that make multi 3 figure salaries. My son had 15-20 minutes of attention in the emergency room for injured arm and most of this time was their questions about who would pay the bill and that was the first and major concern. One simple x-ray, bill $1052. Then another bill to have it read. Two hours setting in the waiting room. So most peoples comment about it is, Why do you care insurance is paying it isnt it? That is the problem that needs to be corrected with healthcare. Government does not need to be in control of healthcare it would be a disaster but government does need to put some controls on healthcare costs and we definitely need tort reform. "

" Pelosi just gave a speech saying we need the public option to keep the insurance companies honest.
Who is going to keep the government honest? We got more crooks and liars in the government than in insurance companies. "

" Exactly, this is why I support the dual option plan. It increase competition, which these dirty capitalist that will comment on here will have to agree with this: basic capitalists principle, more competition equals lower prices. Who's to keep them in check if the insurance fails? Us, the people, lets hope they care. Even during all this conservative rant and small grass roots protest, the majority doesn't pay attention. The only two sides that pay attention are the anarchist, social-libertarians, far left liberals, far right conservatives and reactionaries. These only make a small part of our population. What happened to that sense of rebellion? Oh yeah it died shortly after 1979, only after then it was punks rallying against Reagan/Thatcher era. Everyone is blinded by convenience. People rather sit on their a$$ and watch their new favorite stale reality show than care that freedom of speech is being eroded, the police are gaining more power, people are disappearing in the middle of the night. Security cameras are everywhere now, even on the streets where they have no place to be. Corporations literally run and share most of the power in government. Worker rights are being pushed aside. Wake up! America, Health Care is only part of the bigger worry. Will capitalism be allowed to run rampant, will government take advantage? Will technological advances be our enslaving? Not if we stop it first. "

" The DOJ just fined Pfizer Inc. $2.3 billion for illegaly marketing their drugs, their fourth settlement in the last decade. They have a nice little racket going, rake in 20 or 30 or however many illegal billions, pay off a couple billion and go merrilly on their way. "

" Jon Vanatta wrote on Sep 3, 2009 8:58 AM:
" Amen Mr. Brown, finally someone addresses the real problem. Obamas plan never addresses the real problem. I have also noticed that Medicare gets by with paying less than private insurance for most procedures. Hospital claims to be a non-profit organization but it is not non-profit for the executives that make multi 3 figure salaries. My son had 15-20 minutes of attention in the emergency room for injured arm and most of this time was their questions about who would pay the bill and that was the first and major concern. One simple x-ray, bill $1052. Then another bill to have it read. Two hours setting in the waiting room. So most peoples comment about it is, Why do you care insurance is paying it isnt it?"""""



thanks Jon, you just made a perfect illustration of why we need healthcare reform. "

" i friend of mine just returned from France. while he was there he suffered a severe ear infection.

the people we was visiting called their family doctor who saw him within 30 minutes, treated him, gave him his medication and he left without any forms and at no cost. the doctor also had little overhead since he had only two employees, his wife and a nurse. "

" Well thanks foddy bobby and I'm glad you liked the last part I said too so I'l'll repeat it, "Government does not need to be in control of healthcare it would be a disaster but government does need to put some controls on healthcare costs and we definitely need tort reform. " "

" Before this country attempts to seriously address the high costs of healthcare, it first needs to set down at one table the three driving forces in the spiraling healthcare costs.

The "providers" (Drs/hospitals/equipment makers/medication producers/et al), the "insurance providers" and the "legal industry" are the three forces that continually and in concert drive up costs as they each act in self defence of their "turf" against the other two. To single out any one for punitive measures merely weakens that segment and leaves it prey to the other two and ultimately will even further drive healthcare costs.

This country's healthcare costs must be 'spiraled' down just as they've 'spiraled' up.....in concert! ALL three 'spoiled brats of healthcare' need to be taken to the 'woodshed' at the same time! "

" Jon Vanatta wrote on Sep 3, 2009 8:11 PM:
" "Government does not need to be in control of healthcare it would be a disaster but government does need to put some controls on healthcare costs and we definitely need tort reform. " """"


like the other mouthbreathing birthers, you just can get it through your skull.

THE GOVERNMENT ISN'T GOING TO CONTROL YOUR HEALTHCARE......get your head away from Fox Noise jon. wake up! snap out of it! get a cold shower! let those demons loose jon.....really. "

" We are seeing a movement today aimed at rewriting history on many levels. Modern history by portraying the actions of the previous administration as glorious and noble, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary. And early American history so that the founding fathers who, almost to a man, were pretty much secular humanists according to the existing historical records which include reams of personal writings from all of them become staunch supporters of modern day Christianists.

This practice is not a new one, particularly when politics and Christianity mix. Back some 1,500 years ago Christianity got its big leg up into the political arena when Constantine decided it would be a great idea to have a popular religion backing his political power. He gathered up a bunch of bishops and scholars and tasked them with coming up with a codification of teachings that the general population could get behind and hence behind him. So they vetted the existing writings, picked the ones they thought would work and came up with the beginnings of the Bible as we know it today. They did this under Gods watchful eye, immersing themselves in holiness while they hung out as the Emperors guests. (Did I mention they then tried to destroy all the existing copies of the writings they deemed unworthy?)

~TZ~ "

" Foddy Bobby, Fox News is the only major network that keeps a watch on Obama Reid and Pelosi the others just lap up their disastrous intentions. So why would I want to quit watching the only fair and balanced news and commentary. "

" Jon Vanatta wrote on Sep 4, 2009 4:00 PM:
"So why would I want to quit watching the only fair and balanced news and commentary. """"""



LMAO!!!....see jon, you're delusional! i know for fact you don't watch PBS. "

" fb, do you believe even half the stuff you post? "

" LMAO!!!....see jon, you're delusional! i know for fact you don't watch PBS. "

I'll bet he thinks professional wrestling is real too, fb. As I've said before, Fox is to real news what professional wrestling is to real sports, and the fact that Jon watches it is not surprising. They don't do much on anything related to science, so that should be a real plus for Jon. "

" Tort reform is nothing but a red herring, considering that law suit settlements represent a tiny portion of overall health care costs. Those that naively buy into this are being fooled by this bogus argument. Doctors don't order all of the unneeded tests to protect themselves from lawsuits, it's done for the money. (The insurance companies are charging the doctors millions in premiums, and yet are only paying out a tiny portion of those fees for settlements.) Clinics all over the country are cashing in by purchasing expensive testing equipment, and I know for fact that the doctors at the local hospital are "encouraged" to order as many tests as they can. This is especially true if the patient is on Medicare. If you check in the local hospital, and are on Medicare, they will send in a speech therapist to see you if you break a hip.

I have no argument with those opposed to a public option, but to say the system isn't broke and out of control is beyond ignorance. And to say tort reform is the answer illustrates that even more. "

" foddy bobby PBS is just as bad if not worse than MSNBC and the other lapdogs plus they get taxpayer assistance plus they are in Obama's pocket. baaaaaarrrf! If you want the truth fair and balanced watch Fox and World Net Daily. Fox has liberal loonies on all the time spouting their ridiculous drivel trying to make a valid points touting lumnatics like Van Jones Obama's foul mouthed racist czar. look who he associated with: Bill Ayers, Jeremiah Wright, Blogo, etc. etc. The czars are a reflection of the White House. Jones is a self proclaimed comunist and Obama knows this. People of America wake up. Fox gives the loonies an opportunity to speak to try to defend their ilk. That's why they are fair and balanced. "

" Jon Vanatta wrote on Sep 4, 2009 4:00 PM:

" Foddy Bobby, Fox News is the only major network that keeps a watch on Obama Reid and Pelosi the others just lap up their disastrous intentions. So why would I want to quit watching the only fair and balanced news and commentary. "

Nice shot Jon!! Loved it and you are right about Fox News "Fair and Balanced". You know what Jon? I bet secretly that Foddy Bobby (excuse me, I have to laugh at that name ROLMAO) watches Fox all the time. I think he really likes GLEN BECK!!!!!! "

" Harry Potter wrote on Sep 4, 2009 8:14 PM:
" LMAO!!!....see jon, you're delusional! i know for fact you don't watch PBS. "

I'll bet he thinks professional wrestling is real too, fb. As I've said before, Fox is to real news what professional wrestling is to real sports, and the fact that Jon watches it is not surprising. They don't do much on anything related to science, so that should be a real plus for Jon. "


Harry you quote from the Huffington Post as real news, and no bias. Come On! "

" Harry you quote from the Huffington Post as real news, and no bias. Come On! "

No jr, Huffington is, Fox news, mostly opinion. The difference is that they don't claim to be a news outlet.

And hey jr, did you catch that hard hitting piece Chris Wallace did with Cheney? It was reminiscent of the bit Brit Hume did after Cheney's infamous shooting incident. Just in case you missed it, Wallace sat wide eyed like a little school girl while Cheney blathered on filibuster style about what a great job he and Bush did. "

" A lot of the opposition to national health care has come from senior citizens. But in my opinion senior citizens are not really against socialized medicine. They already have socialized medicine in the form of Medicare and Medicaid and they are reasonably happy with both. What they are afraid of is that when EVERYONE in the country gets socialized medicine the money will run dry. In other words, there won't be enough money to fully fund the seniors' socialized medicine -- Medicare and Medicaid. It's the same old story -- I want MINE and you other folks can just fend for yourselves! "

" A lot of the opposition to national health care has come from senior citizens. That part of your message I'll agree with, Matt Toon. Sure, there are some that are looking at it that way, but I suspect they are in the minority. But I can't agree that most are against it for selfish reasons. Older folks are susceptible to fear mongering and rumors and at times are rather naive. There's a reason that scam artists prey on older folks, and we're seeing that again with the scare tactics being used by those opposed to real health care reform.

There have been so many lies told relating to the presidents ideas and I think they are merely buying into them. As an example, just read the letter regarding Dr Emmanuel on another thread on this site.

I'll concede that the far right hit a home run with the "death panel" fabrication. Even though this outlandish claim has been thoroughly debunked, it persists in some circles. You know the old saying about there ain't no changing a made up mind. "

" In the fall of 2008, Fox News repeatedly referred to presidential candidate Barack Obama as "Barack Osama."
Fox News presented a graphic showing that the Lincoln-Douglas Debates were between Abraham Lincoln and the black abolitionist Frederick Douglass.
Fox News star Bill O'Reilly falsely claimed that WWII U.S. troops had committed atrocities at Malmedy as an attempt to justify contemporary atrocities by U.S. troops, then had Malmedy changed to "Normandy" in the transcript in a clumsy attempt to cover up his tracks.
Fox News is lying propaganda from top to bottom. "

" Matt Toon wrote on Sep 5, 2009 9:43 AM:
"In other words, there won't be enough money to fully fund the seniors' socialized medicine -- Medicare and Medicaid. It's the same old story -- I want MINE and you other folks can just fend for yourselves! "

Oh, please! Look at what a mess those programs are and tell me the government should be unleashed even further on the American public! Furthermore, your insulting comments about our nations elderly is pathetic. "

" Oh, please! Look at what a mess those programs are and tell me the government should be unleashed even further on the American public!
---
Why don't you ask seniors if they'd like to dump their awful government-run Medicare and seek coverage from the wonderful private health insurance cartel? From what you propaganda-peddling Republicans say, they'll jump at the chance, right? "

" The conservative "m" and the left-wing Harry Potter are both full of nonsense. The truth is that EVERYONE, including senior citizens, stand up for what they perceive as their own interests. That is just a fact. Also, The Question makes a great point when he/she asks why Republicans don't urge senior citizens to abandon Medicare and go back to their own private insurance. The truth is that seniors are generally quite pleased with government-run Medicare. "

" I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united capitalist states of america. To the Imperial Republic to which I serve, one religion under money, unconquerable, with slavery and low wages to all. "

" To proletariat87 -- My only comment is: "Amen" and well said! "

" The primary weapon that is being used against national health care is fear and fear of the unknown. This is nothing new. President Harry S Truman proposed national health care back in the late 1940s. At that time, during the period of McCarthyism, the plan was defeated by portraying it as socialist or communist. This is rather similar to what is happening now. Unfortunately, fear tactics can be quite effective. "

" theproletariat87 wrote on Sep 7, 2009 11:40 AM:

" I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united capitalist states of america. To the Imperial Republic to which I serve, one religion under money, unconquerable, with slavery and low wages to all. "

Matt Toon wrote on Sep 7, 2009 12:27 PM:

" To proletariat87 -- My only comment is: "Amen" and well said! "

Why thank you Matt Toon. and I also agree with you on this: Matt Toon wrote on Sep 7, 2009 10:04 AM:

".....That is just a fact. Also, The Question makes a great point when he/she asks why Republicans don't urge senior citizens to abandon Medicare and go back to their own private insurance. The truth is that seniors are generally quite pleased with government-run Medicare. "

I say amen to that one. "