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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Lee Enterprises

Wednesday, August 26, 2009 8:19 PM CDT
LETTER: Conservatives lie about health care reform

CONNIE MANES, Mattoon

As usual, conservatives are spewing distortions of the truth about the health care reform that is being discussed by Congress. It’s time for a bit of truth.

Whether you want a public option or not to be available for competition, it is not true that the private sector will be eliminated leaving the government as the “only game in the country.” The proof is in the pudding.

Medicare, a government controlled (single payer) system has been in existence for almost 45 years. Guess what, private insurance is still thriving.

Some believe if it were not for Medicare being around, our health care costs would be even worse than they are today.

I for one believe expanding the Medicare rules to include those unable to pay for more costly private care, but may be able to donate a small percentage of their income, should be allowed into the Medicare system. These folks tend to be younger therefore less health care is needed, bringing more money into the system.

It could help Medicare, which is currently going bankrupt, if the fees for those members using it were to be increased, with the stipulation that more is covered, such as deductibles.

Currently seniors, if they can afford it, pay an additional $1,500 per year for supplemental insurance to cover what Medicare won’t. Instead of giving more profits to private insurers, put that money into the Medicare system where it is needed.

They should also get rid of the confusing rule for seniors, where the government will pay only 80 percent of what they consider a procedure should cost. I would also get rid of the Part A and B division of care. Medicare should be treated just like private sector policies are. It should be one plan that pays 80-90 percent of all health care that is covered.

As for the “end of life” option where government pays for you to talk to your doctor about a living will (death panels?) and the so-called new death book for veterans, they too are distortions.

What they fail to tell Americans is that the same option was offered by the Republican controlled Congress and the book was first created by the Bush administration. It contains the same advance-care planning required of all health care organizations under federal law, it has been in use since 1997.

Get the facts folks before swallowing these gun toting conservative lies.

CONNIE MANES

Mattoon

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even steven wrote on Aug 27, 2009 10:00 AM:

" What a typical batch of leftist lies about this atrocity being pushed on the American public! The FACT that illegals will be covered in this health care takeover by the government should be enough to get people up in arms. It's the typical Democrat strategy of using tax dollars to buy votes and further reinforce their power. This isn't about health care reform at all. It's a power grap, pure and simple, and most thinking people who have read much of the proposed legislation know it, and they are showing up in droves to protest this disasterous plan. "

yocsmotel wrote on Aug 27, 2009 12:11 PM:

" Private insurance still exists along with Medicare because Medicare doesn't cover the whole bill, and the policies that are sold are "supplemental" polices. So--employing the "logic" of this writer, the way to ensure that private insurance can still exist alongside "ObamaCare" is to make sure that it doesn't pay for everything! However, she advocates the opposite--bring EVERYONE into the system and then PAY FOR EVERYTHING. Obviously she has no interest in preserving the role of private sector insurance companies. As Medicare is projected by our own government to go bankrupt within 10 years, her recommendation to provide coverage to more individuals as a way to bring in money is perplexing. While the accusation of death panels may be melodramatic based on what is written in the legislation, the incidence of senile depression is rampant. We already have legal euthenasia in Oregon, and it's not hard to picture a well-meaning know-it-all liberal bureaucrat nodding in agreement as Grandma weepingly confesses that she "feels like a burden." What will the next move be after that--when health care is rationed and younger, more productive citizens are elbowing to the front of the line? Consider that, Senior Citizens. All we have heard so far is that the Medicare that is keeping you going can be the source of "savings" to fund Obamacare.
--yocsmotel "

Lost Confidence wrote on Aug 27, 2009 1:06 PM:

" Sorry can't even dignify this with a response. "

coonbug wrote on Aug 27, 2009 2:56 PM:

" Would you please show me where I said to bring EVERYONE into Medicare? WHERE?

I said bring those that cannot afford health care into the system and that would help save money (because these additional people would have less care requirements- younger) for more savings in Medicare. I also said to offer more coverage to Medicare patients so seniors wouldn't so much out of pocket expense paying PRIVATE insurers. As you point out, THEY offer the supplementals and charge out the rearend. Money seniors cannot afford. This ALL still leaves people like you and me able to buy private insurance. So please - facts only "

coonbug wrote on Aug 27, 2009 2:59 PM:

" By the way, United HealthCare provides for the SAME 'end of life' option -- check your facts -- and this is a PRIVATE insurer.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/27/private-insurer-also-prov_n_270558.html "

cedric66 wrote on Aug 27, 2009 7:53 PM:

" Watch as to how they will try to name this Ted Kennedy's HealthCare plan. Named in honor of a man who has done nothing but use people. He was a murderer and a sot. He was an academic cheat that was caught twice for cheating and was always paid everyone off to keep from being prosecuted. Personally I hope he burns in Hell for all his misgivings "

jackinthebox wrote on Aug 27, 2009 9:03 PM:

" cedric66 wrote on Aug 27, 2009 7:53 PM:

" Watch as to how they will try to name this Ted Kennedy's HealthCare plan. Named in honor of a man who has done nothing but use people. He was a murderer and a sot. He was an academic cheat that was caught twice for cheating and was always paid everyone off to keep from being prosecuted. Personally I hope he burns in Hell for all his misgivings "
------------------------
Well said cedric66 . The man who was drunk and killed his daughter last week is in jail and will serve time, but Mr. Kennedy after hiding for 24 hrs to sober up while the girl lay dead in the water recieved no time in jail and kept his well paid position in office. No justice for the rich or powerful.. "

lefty wrote on Aug 27, 2009 10:47 PM:

" EVEN STEVEN is cute. He says...

"What a typical batch of leftist lies about this atrocity being pushed on the American public!"

Hahaha... cue the right wing lies!

"The FACT that illegals will be covered in this health care takeover by the government should be enough to get people up in arms."

If it were in the bill. It's not. Though current policy is to treat illegals. Didja know that?

"It's the typical Democrat strategy of using tax dollars to buy votes and further reinforce their power."

Like the Bush stimulus checks? Right, if the left does it, bad! If the right does it... gooooooood!

"This isn't about health care reform at all. It's a power grap, pure and simple, and most thinking people who have read much of the proposed legislation know it, and they are showing up in droves to protest this disasterous plan. "

Just as many are showing up to support it.

Man, you sure work yourself up in a lather good, huh? "

G-MAN wrote on Aug 28, 2009 2:46 AM:

" cedric66 wrote on Aug 27, 2009 7:53 PM:

" Watch as to how they will try to name this Ted Kennedy's HealthCare plan. Named in honor of a man who has done nothing but use people. He was a murderer and a sot. He was an academic cheat that was caught twice for cheating and was always paid everyone off to keep from being prosecuted. Personally I hope he burns in Hell for all his misgivings "
---------------------------------------Well,well cedric,i gotta tell you that ths is the"FIRST" post that i agree with you.Maybe Harry Potter will agree to but you know how old harry is.We will wait and see if he does because i know he will have something to say about your post.hee-hee-----Take it easy on her Mr.Harry,lol "

The Question wrote on Aug 28, 2009 5:56 AM:

" Conservatives lie? But only Democrats lie, according to the right-wing spokeschannel Fox News.
Of course, Fox News is the channel that identified disgraced Republican Gov. Mark Sanford as a Democrat on the day he admitted his extra-hemispheric philandering.
And Fox News also changed Congressman Mark Foley's party affiliation from Republican to Democratic after it was inescapably confirmed that Foley was sexually soliciting teenage male pages in Congress.
Conservatives and Republicans aren't merely liars. They have hired experts to help them with their lying. "

father bob wrote on Aug 28, 2009 9:18 AM:

" we love you connie! keep up the excellent posts! "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 28, 2009 9:30 AM:

" Personally I hope he burns in Hell for all his misgivings.

Are we playing God now, cedric?

What kind of a person would wish that upon a fellow human being? You must be a very sad and angry little person to say such a thing. I would suggest you talk to your preacher (assuming you have one, and it's not Fred Phelps) about that one and see if he/her agrees with that remark.

How's that, G-man? I was as kind as I could be considering the sentiments expressed by cedric. "

cedric66 wrote on Aug 28, 2009 10:14 AM:

" Are we playing God now, cedric?

No Harry! Just telling the truth. It's people like you that bash Bush,but can't take any criticism about one of your own. He murdered and got away with it,but people never forget!!! "

The Question wrote on Aug 28, 2009 10:37 AM:

" The people who applauded as their fascist ape wrecked the nation and the world economy are here to vomit on Ted Kennedy now. "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 28, 2009 11:22 AM:

" No Harry! Just telling the truth. It's people like you that bash Bush,but can't take any criticism about one of your own. He murdered and got away with it,but people never forget!!! "

Be that as it may, I still think you are a person of low character for making that remark. Yes, people never forget, but most decent people are willing to forgive. I'll put you in the category of those who won't.

And as far as Bush is concerned, I may detest the man and his politics, but I would never go so far to say that about him or anyone else for that matter. Some jail time for him and his corrupt VP would be nice though. lol!

PS, you might want to check out the Cal Thomas column in the printed version of todays paper. Unlike you, the ultra conservative Cal shows some class on the passing of Ted Kennedy. "

cedric66 wrote on Aug 28, 2009 1:22 PM:

" Dear Barry: Janet didn't get the memo, and evidently neither did John Brennan, your senior adviser on counterterrorism, who said al-Qaeda is still the most serious threat to the US.

Uh... Barry? What's the deal with the lack of coherence in the WH lately? Well, I mean more so than ordinarily. You know, like everything's sort of disjointed and... muddled. Maybe you guys all OD'd on hallucinogenic mushrooms from Michelle's garden?

And what about Osama. Remember him? Osama bin Laden? He's pretty unforgettable because after all, you and the Dems kept screaming about dropping everything else and getting him. Why sure, nailing ol' Osama was imperative, and unless we did that, the whole thing was useless. Funny, we don't hear that anymore, do we? Of course that was when the surge was a roaring success and your Vietnam Syndrome fantasy wasn't working out so good.

Hey Barry, you guys said we know where Osama is, so what's the holdup? Didn't you say you'd just wade right into Pakistan without an invitation? Well come on then, let's get the show on the road! But whatever you do, don't refer to him as a 'terrorist.' Just too, too politically incorrect don't you see.

Besides, you and your thugs are too busy plotting against your real enemies, right Barry? Oh you know who I mean. We conservatives.
__________________ "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 28, 2009 1:35 PM:

even steven wrote on Aug 28, 2009 3:12 PM:

" Tax dollars for illegal aliens... yes indeed.

San Francisco Examiner wrote:
In its subsection on health insurance subsidies (known as affordability credits), HR 3200 does state, Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States. That would seem to solve the problem, but its more rhetoric than reality.

The bill contains no verification requirement or enforcement process for citizenship or legal residency, as exists for other federal benefit programs. The only verification required for the subsidies pertains to family income. Beyond that, as the CRS report notes, everything is left in the hands of the Health Choices Commissioner.

House Democrats defeated all attempts in committee to add an enforcement mechanism that would require proof of citizenship or legal residency for those getting subsidies. "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 28, 2009 3:30 PM:

" Perhaps seedy thinks the president logs onto this site. lol! "

father bob wrote on Aug 28, 2009 4:58 PM:

" the classless whitewingers continue:

Conservative media figures are blasting Democrats for trying to draw political gain from the death of Senator Ted Kennedy. But on Thursday, it was one of their own -- former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee -- who went there.

The 2008 Republican presidential candidate suggested during his radio show, "The Huckabee Report," on Thursday that, under President Obama's health care plan, Kennedy would have been told to "go home to take pain pills and die" during his last year of life.

"[I]t was President Obama himself who suggested that seniors who don't have as long to live might want to consider just taking a pain pill instead of getting an expensive operation to cure them," said Huckabee. "

lefty wrote on Aug 28, 2009 7:09 PM:

" Ok EVEN STEVEN, so there is no robust enforcement mechanism against treating illegal immigrants. What shall we do?

What if one have a new contagious disease? Should we just put them back on the street, or quarantine (treat) them?

The reason why we have treated ALL people when they are ill is because it was seen as a public health hazard. You ARE for national security, aren't you? "

father bob wrote on Aug 29, 2009 3:51 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Aug 28, 2009 1:35 PM:
Fox news- (of all places)

Looks like seedy thinks along the same lines as Richard Nixon. lol! """"""

yeah his brain is about as active as nixon's currently is. "

cedric66 wrote on Aug 29, 2009 6:25 PM:

" It seems that in 2003 Obama, then a little-known Illinois state senator, uttered one of his infamous, off-the-cuff gaffes -- on camera.

Speaking to a gathering of AFL-CIO members, Obama said Democrats needed to "get some backbone" and reject the Medicare prescription-drug benefit bill that recently had been introduced. Not surprisingly, Obama thought the reforms the bill offered weren't drastic enough.

As told in Last Lion, Obama urged union members: "We've got to call up Ted Kennedy and say, 'Ted, you're getting a little old now, and you've been a fighter for us before. I don't know what's happening now. Get some spine and stand up to Republicans.'"

That an unknown Illinois rabble-rouser would dare to berate Kennedy on his signature issue of healthcare reform -- in front of a union meeting no less apparently drove Kennedy to distraction.

So five years later, when Illinois Sen. Dick Durbin started lobbying Kennedy to endorse Obama over Hillary Clinton, Kennedy made him sit down and watch the video of Obama shooting from the lip.

Of greatest interest to historians, however, may be Durbin's account of Obama's reaction.

"I didn't say that," Obama insisted when Durbin told him why Kennedy was upset.

"Barack," Durbin replied, "it's on the video."

Desperately needing the mainstream acceptance a Kennedy endorsement would bring, Obama had no choice: He visited the Senate's liberal lion and personally apologized.

"It was a stupid thing to say," Obama told Kennedy, according to the Globe's account.

With that, the political pecking order was re-established. Obama went on to win Kennedy's endorsement and the presidency.

Just another big lie!! One of many he has told the nation. The main thing is "Never Trust a Liberal!!!!
"

what? wrote on Aug 29, 2009 9:47 PM:

" Of course conservatives lie, the thing is they have a much more gullible audience than the liberal ones do. "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 30, 2009 8:15 AM:

" One of the lies being circulated about health care reform:

You'll have no choice in what health benefits you receive.

The myth that a "health choices commissioner" will decide what benefits you get seems to have originated in a july 19 post at blog.flecksoflife.com, whose homepage features an image of Obama looking like heath ledger's joker. In fact, the house bill sets up a health-care exchangeessentially a list of private insurers and one government planwhere people who do not have health insurance through their employer or some other source (including small businesses) can shop for a plan, much as seniors shop for a drug plan under medicare part d. The government will indeed require that participating plans not refuse people with preexisting conditions and offer at least minimum coverage, just as it does now with employer-provided insurance plans and part d. The requirements will be floors, not ceilings, however, in that the feds will have no say in how generous private insurance can be.
Newsweek magazine- "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 30, 2009 9:19 PM:

" The biggest lie of all, and the one the GOP has been trying to spin for weeks:

The Health Care bill would set up government death panels.

This lie has been widely circulated over email and in blog posts, recently and most prominently by Sarah Palin, Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-IA) and others. Their claim is that language in the bill relating to "advance care planning consultations" would set up mandatory meetings in which government "death panels" would force senior citizens and others to sign some sort of early death pact. In reality, the bill language seeks to require Medicare to cover the cost of counseling sessions with doctors on end-of-life issues if a person chooses to have one. Currently, these kinds of sessions aren't covered by Medicare, and people without extra money often can't afford to have them. "

father bob wrote on Aug 31, 2009 9:58 AM:

" this is too good!!

Rep. Pete Olson (R-TX) told the story of a woman who was repeatedly denied care for her unborn childs heart defect. After hunting down specialists, the woman found one guy in Detroit who said, I think we can get it done, Olson said. Seventeen days after the womans son was born, the child received the heart transplant. Olson then said that a public option would have prevented the woman from finding someone to help her unborn son. Many in the crowd promptly booed Olson:

OLSON: Britney is convinced that her son would not have been born if there was a public option. She wouldnt have had the choices to be able to go find a doctor she wants. [] For those of you who say its not true, dont talk to me, talk to Britney.

ATTENDEE 1: Thats not true!

ATTENDEE 2: The insurance company turned her down, not the government! The private insurance turned her down, not the government! My gosh! Thats not the government!

OLSON: Texans, I want to thank you all for coming. "

Cognitus wrote on Aug 31, 2009 3:07 PM:

" Cedric 66:" He was an academic cheat that was caught twice for cheating "

Typical conservative; when you find an error to criticize, the usual theory is to DOUBLE it. There was A cheating
incident.

Cedric is going to condemn him for life for this. If he wants some real exercize, let him put on his cheating boots and he can find some exercize right there in Charleston.

Now I don't want to ruin my stay in Colorado so I'm just going to sign off, lean back and enjoy the view of Longs Peak. "

cedric66 wrote on Aug 31, 2009 7:07 PM:

" A man was protesting at a town hall event in Virginia in Rep. Moran's district. He was protesting outside because it was packed inside the building where the townhall was being held. The protestor was holding up a poster that said "Organizing for National Socialist Health Care" and it had a variation of the Obama Joker on the front.

The black cop told the protestor that if he did not put down the sign that he would charge him with trespassing. The protestor replied that there were others there with posters, too, so why was he being singled out. The cop replied that he could charge him with whatever he wanted to. The protestor replied to the cop wondering if the cop now made law too. In the end, the protestor said "This is America. It used to be America."

The cop replied: "It ain't no more." "

The Question wrote on Sep 1, 2009 8:35 AM:

" The cop replied: "It ain't no more." "
--
And I replied, "That unsourced story is an obvious lie." "

father bob wrote on Sep 1, 2009 9:20 AM:

" yesterday on NPRs All Things Considered, author sam tanenhaus discusses his book, The Death of Conservatism, a expansion on his january article in The New Republic. tanenhaus argues that american conservatism has been taken over by revanchists who are at war with the american government.

I was looking up revanchist, when Mr. Tanenhaus explains it in the interview.

interesting concept...that's 100% true regarding the GOP and rightwing neoconservative radicals who are against anything the government stands for. nevermind it's been "their government for over 200 years. that all changed when a black man took over the most powerful position in the world. "

Hammbone wrote on Sep 1, 2009 9:38 AM:

" Big buisness runs this country, The puppets that are in place (elected officals)are there to keep the statis Que.The corprotocracy,(big buisness and elected officals)wont do the right thing as long as profit is the main driving force in our system.To do the right thing would be to costly and would cut to deeply into the profits of big buisness.In this system everybody chiseles off of everybody else,doing the right thing is a dream.We are all held as wage slaves,and the goverment and it's banking systems and the loan instatutions want to keep it that way.
Slavery has the responcibility of the owners to house and feed the slaves. Econimic slavery is different in that we have to house and feed ourselves.
"There are 2 ways to enslave a nation. One is by the sword and the other is by debt." John Adams 1735-1826 "

even steven wrote on Sep 1, 2009 10:07 AM:

" Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism. --Vladimir Lenin

Americans don't want socialized health care. "

The Question wrote on Sep 1, 2009 10:33 AM:

" As a columnist said, senators and members of Congress had to go home to a big stinking vat of stupid this year. Stupid people showing up and yelling stupid things. Stupid. Hot and stupid. Thats what August 2009 was. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 1, 2009 11:11 AM:

" And I replied, "That unsourced story is an obvious lie".

I'm with you on this one, TQ. I'll bet our friend seedy did get this off the Net, and I would love to see which one of the racist sites put out such a blatantly false story. How about it, seedy? Gonna share your source with us? I'm betting you won't do it. Come on now, and prove me wrong.

I also find it rather ironic that our friend would tell such a tale on a thread that was started by someone lamenting the lies being told by the disgruntled losing side on this very subject.

Seedy, without realizing it (no doubt), helped to prove the letter writer's original point. "

father bob wrote on Sep 1, 2009 12:37 PM:

" even steven wrote on Sep 1, 2009 10:07 AM:
" Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism. --Vladimir Lenin

Americans don't want socialized health care. """"

you speak for your friends, i'll speak for mine......YES they do. "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 1, 2009 12:42 PM:

" UNCLE TEDDY, as his family called him, might have been a hero to his family, but to the american way of life, he was against freedom for the people! People say that the health care bill is socialism. WHY don't they call it like it is? A BIG STEP TO COMMUNISM!! If they would pass a bill that would make the govt. employees live on the same plan, then I would be for it.
HERE IS AN EXAMPLE!
START A MOVEMENT TO PLACE ALL POLITICIANS ON SOCIAL SECURITY
Our Senators and Congresswomen do not pay into Social Security and, of course, they do not collect from it.
You see, Social Security benefits were not suitable for persons of their rare elevation in society. They felt they should have a special plan for themselves So, many years ago they voted in their own benefit plan.
In more recent years, no congress person has felt the need to change it. After all, it is a great plan.
For all practical purposes their plan works like this:
When they retire, they continue to draw the same pay until they die.
Except it may increase from time to time for cost of living adjustments. .....
For example, Senator Byrd and Congressman White and their wives may expect to draw $7, 800,000.00 (that's Seven Million, Eight-Hundred Thousand Dollars), with their wives drawing $275, 000..00 during the last years of their lives.
This is calculated on an average life span for each of those Dignitaries.
Younger Dignitaries who retire at an early age, will receive much more during the rest of their lives.
Their cost for this excellent plan to them is $0.00. NADA!!! ZILCH!!!
This little perk they voted for themselves is free to them. You and I pick up the tab for this plan. The funds for this fine retirement plan come directly from the General Funds;
"OUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK"!
From our own Social Security Plan, which you and I pay (or have paid) into, every payday until we retire (which amount is matched by our employer), We can expect to get an average of
$1,000 per month after retirement..
Or, in other words, we would have to collect our average of $1,000 monthly benefits for 68 years and one (1) month to equal Senator Bill Bradley's benefits!
Social Security could be very good if only one small change were made.
That change would be to
Jerk the Golden Fleece Retirement Plan from under the Senators and Congressmen. . Put them into the Social Security plan with the rest of us.
Then sit back.....
And see how fast they would fix it! "

The Question wrote on Sep 1, 2009 12:42 PM:

" Here's a riddle for your friends? Which American industry markets a product that NO OTHER COUNTRY wants to buy?
The answer: The American health insurance industry. Why is that, do you think? "

father bob wrote on Sep 1, 2009 12:42 PM:

" The Question wrote on Sep 1, 2009 8:35 AM:
" The cop replied: "It ain't no more." "
--
And I replied, "That unsourced story is an obvious lie." """""

notice it was a "black cop".......the far rightwing, or whitewing as i like to refer to the fanatical zealots always have to reference race...

after all, they could have just said "a policeman" or "a cop"...whatever, and been more believable. "

even steven wrote on Sep 1, 2009 12:55 PM:

" Obama lies about health care bill:

Obama says that he does not support a "single-payer system" even though his comments in favor of single-payer healthcare are on tape, and his "public option" amounts to a piecemeal takeover of private-sector medical coverage.

Obama says, "You will not be waiting in any lines," but Section 1151 of HR 3200 penalizes hospitals for the costs incurred in readmitting patients, permitting the Health and Human Services Secretary to "reduce" payments to hospitals for readmission, a decision likely to force the sick out into the cold. If a cancer patient has a relapse, they might as well get drunk on morphine, because readmission will be exceedingly difficult.

Obama ridicules the idea of "death panels" as right-wing hysteria, saying that HR 3200 contains no such entity. He is right. The Independent Medicare Advisory Council, the source of the death panel concerns, is the topic of another bill introduced by the Obama Administration. Its job? To cut Medicare payments. And specific sections of his proposed legislation create mechanisms that will result in the loss of care for elderly persons. In addition, Medicare Advantage programs would be ended, a cut of $150 billion. This has not stopped the President from saying, "We are not talking about cutting Medicare benefits."

Obama makes the transparently false claim that private insurance will not be affected by HR 3200, and that those who like their current plans can keep them, despite the fact that individual Americans will only be allowed to obtain private plans for a 5 year grace period, and government plans will become the default should citizens switch employers.

Obama says that "46 million of our fellow citizens have no coverage. They are just vulnerable. If something happens, they go bankrupt, or they don't get the care they need." But everyone can currently obtain care, even if they cannot pay. That is why 60 hospitals in California have closed, because the law requires them to treat everyone. And that 46 million number is known to be bogus, since 9.7 million of this number are illegal aliens. By one estimate, 14 million Americans choose not to obtain coverage. 18 million are under 34 and are either dependents or simply opt not to seek insurance, according to one study. When these numbers are subtracted, only 5 million uninsured remain.

Obama says that "we will make sure that no insurance company or government bureaucrat gets between you and the care you need," but responding to a Medicare recipient that had been denied the only drug that would alleviate his condition, Obama had this to say, "Look, there may be -- in nine out of 10 cases, the generic might work as well or better than the brand name. And we don't want to just subsidize the drug companies if you've got one that works just as well as another." "

Bps wrote on Sep 1, 2009 1:05 PM:

" " As a columnist said, senators and members of Congress had to go home to a big stinking vat of stupid this year.

Stupid people showing up and yelling stupid things. Stupid. Hot and stupid. Thats what August 2009 was. "
-----------

Psst. LCoO.

You know all those stupid people, guess there must be a lot of them:

30% of the nation's voters strongly approve of the way that Barack Obama is performing his role as President

41% Strongly Disapprove

Obamas Presidential Approval Index rating of -11

45% of voters say they at least somewhat approve of the President's performance

53% disapprove of the President's performance

But it is not just your beloved one.

Here is a really positive sign, they feel the same way about ALL members of congress:

57% would throw out ALL the legislators and start over again

Source: http://www.rasmussenreports.com

It must what the President said on 8/19, you know about this all being a vast right-wing conspiracy.

Or maybe it is everybody is a racist like a few of the LCoO keep calling anyone who disagrees.

More likely- it is just terrible policies and spending coming home to roost. "

Bps wrote on Sep 1, 2009 1:32 PM:

" The Cybersecurity Act of 2009 gives the president the ability to "declare a cybersecurity emergency" and shut down or limit Internet traffic in any "critical" information network "in the interest of national security."

The bill does not define a critical information network or a cybersecurity emergency. That definition would be left to the president.

It also grants the Secretary of Commerce "access to all relevant data concerning [critical] networks without regard to any provision of law, regulation, rule, or policy restricting such access." This means he or she can monitor or access any data on private or public networks without regard to privacy laws.

Link to full working document:
http://cdt.org/security/CYBERSEC4.pdf

So, LCoO, here is another chance to speak out. It appears your elected officials are in the process of attempting to do something that is just as wrong as those nasty predecessors did in the name of Security.

Should the President and the Secretary of Commerce have these brand new abilities to stifle free speech by shutting down the portions of the internet they wish and gain access to all relevant data without any regards to the existing laws? "

father bob wrote on Sep 1, 2009 2:12 PM:

" ROFLMAO!!!!....

he whomever cites HR3200 is an ignorant dolt...

here's a news flash for you. that's a dead horse. find another pony to ride, maybe your mother can put you on the merry-go-round! "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 1, 2009 2:17 PM:

" Now that a Democrat is in the White House, the right wingers are suddenly concerned about the law. Watching Bush and his chief henchman, Cheney shred the constitution didn't get a peep of them. lol! "

father bob wrote on Sep 1, 2009 3:40 PM:

" Editorial Reviews
From Publishers Weekly
Neiwert (Strawberry Days), founder of the political blog Orcinus, links the proliferation of radical conservative ideas in the political mainstream to the looming specter of eliminationism, an ideology rejecting dialogue and debate in favor of the pursuit of outright elimination of the opposing side, either through suppression, exile, and eviction, or extermination. Eliminationism has taken many forms in American history, from the attitudes of early settlers toward the Native Americans they displaced and the rise of the Ku Klux Klan to the establishment of Sundown Towns that banned nonwhite residents and the internment of Japanese-Americans during WWII. In recent years, the eliminationist urge, articulated by conservative fringe groups associated with the Christian Patriot movement, has emerged in talk radio, news networks and national press outlets providing a platform for attacks on immigrants, Muslims, homosexuals and liberals. In these efforts, the author discerns a nascent American fascism, an argument that is by turns frightening and overwrought. Rich in historical and journalistic detail, the book offers a fine overview of the uglier strains in American politics. However, those looking for concrete solutions will find the author's call for ever-increasing vigilance somewhat less than fortifying. "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 1, 2009 6:28 PM:

" http://www.youtube.com/v/hIKPKjl0-pg

Well Well Here it is HARRY,FB,Question.
Now I suppose you will say it is a fake. Well it's not. It comes straight from the horse's mouth. FB if anybody is a racist,you better look in the mirror then you can see what one really looks like "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 1, 2009 6:32 PM:

" The Question wrote on Aug 28, 2009 10:37 AM:

" The people who applauded as their fascist ape wrecked the nation and the world economy are here to vomit on Ted
Kennedy now

I wouldn't waste any of my time or puke on that miserable piece of gargage. He won't be missed here!! "

Bps wrote on Sep 1, 2009 6:38 PM:

" father bob wrote on Sep 1, 2009 2:12 PM:
" ROFLMAO!!!!....

he whomever cites HR3200 is an ignorant dolt...

here's a news flash for you. that's a dead horse. find another pony to ride, maybe your mother can put you on the merry-go-round! "
----------------------
You mean the bill that the Democrat leadership pushed so very hard to pass before people could read it, very much as they did with the "Stimulus" package, because by golly it was a life or death matter if we didnt?

You mean the bill that very probably would have been passed by the house Democrats before the August recess IF the Blue Dog Democrats (who opposed the bill on fiscal grounds) hadnt delayed it giving America the chance to find out just what was is in it.

You mean the bill that so many Dummy-crats have called so many conservatories liars, cheats, terrorists, Nazis, and worse for opposing?

You mean the very same bill the LCoO slurred and is still slurring so many on here who dissented.

You mean this bill with the satirical title:

HR 3200 America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009

Jul 31, 2009: House Energy and Commerce: This bill was considered in committee which has recommended it be considered by the House as a whole.

Sad thing though, it should have been dead before it ever came out of the Dummy-crat controlled committee.

As far as finding (QUOTE)- another pony to ride (END), dont worry that wont be hard with the group in power.

In fact it shouldnt be long before they try to sneak something just as bad through again.

Wanna bet it will be life and death again? "

Bps wrote on Sep 1, 2009 7:01 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Sep 1, 2009 2:17 PM:

" Now that a Democrat is in the White House, the right wingers are suddenly concerned about the law. Watching Bush and his chief henchman, Cheney shred the constitution didn't get a peep of them. lol! "

---------

Thats right all conservatives defended Bush and we all kept our mouths shut during his reign (roll eyes and sigh).

Just think of this as yet another chance for the LCoO to prove youre on higher ground than those ol nasty Bush supporters.

Come on you can do it, you dont want to be like those guys do you?

Just answer the simple question asked or defend your guys proposing an extremely similar thing and prove it is not.

Again the question- So, LCoO, here is another chance to speak out.

It appears your elected officials are in the process of attempting to do something that is just as wrong as those nasty predecessors did in the name of Security with The Cybersecurity Act of 2009.

Should the President and the Secretary of Commerce have these brand new abilities to stifle free speech by shutting down the portions of the internet they wish and gain access to all relevant data without any regards to the existing laws? " "

BW wrote on Sep 1, 2009 7:35 PM:

" fb, why do you suppose that horse died? "

Bps wrote on Sep 1, 2009 7:46 PM:

" According to some (including the author of this letter to the editor), since I am clearly a conservative I must be just a dumb ol loud mouth dolt, spewing distortions of the truth, so maybe the LCoO here can explain this

The Obama administration disclosed on August 27 in two DHS directives made public, that IT WILL CARRY ON BUSH ADMINISTRATION POLICIES that allowed the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to carry out searches of the personal digital instruments of travelers, US citizens or not, passing across US borders, even in the absence of suspicion of criminal activity.

By proclaiming that government agents can confiscate any digital device that may contain "information," even WITHOUT SUSPICION OF CRIMINAL ACTIVITY, dont the directives amount to an open repudiation of the Fourth Amendment's prohibition against unreasonable searches and seizures?

This is another one left over from the previous crooks in charge the current administration could have changed but instead left alone and codified it.

Hum, change you can count on or Same Old Stuff Different Crook?

Used a source some of you might have visited for this one- http://www.wsws.org/articles/2009/sep2009/digi-s01.shtml "

The Question wrote on Sep 1, 2009 7:51 PM:

" Now I suppose you will say it is a fake. Well it's not. It comes straight from the horse's mouth.
---
Where is the EVIDENCE? You have heard the term "evidence," haven't you? WHO are these people? What is the NAME of the police officer? WHO reported this? EVIDENCE, liar. "

Bps wrote on Sep 1, 2009 9:11 PM:

" " Now I suppose you will say it is a fake. Well it's not. It comes straight from the horse's mouth.
---
Where is the EVIDENCE? You have heard the term "evidence," haven't you? WHO are these people? What is the NAME of the police officer? WHO reported this? EVIDENCE, liar. "

--------------------

Pst LCoO- when I tried cedric66's link it appears is a bad link so taking the short time to do a simple search found the correct link.

cedric66 wrote on Sep 1, 2009 6:28 PM:
" http://www.youtube.com/v/hIKPKjl0-pg

Here is the valid YouTube link for the posting:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIKPKjl0-pg&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eexaminer%2Ecom%2Fx%2D4124%2DPhoenix%2DRepublican%2DExaminer%7Ey2009m8d31%2DOfficer%2Dthreatened%2Dto%2Darrest%2DObama%2Dprotester%2Dfor%2Dsign%2D%2DIt%2D&feature=player_embedded#t=96

Here is the tiny url link:
http://tinyurl.com/nnlwl3

If you take the time to actually visit the site that cedric66 was trying to supply you would see THE VIDEO (the EVIDENCE) that the cop (Officer Wesley Cheeks, Jr at Jim Moran's town hall in Reston, VA last week) did pretty much what (your words) that terrible whitewing fanatical zealot lying site said it did.

Hum, guess what- the video evidence seems to prove cedric66 100% accurate and your posts- yep proved wrong. "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 1, 2009 9:52 PM:

cedric66 wrote on Sep 1, 2009 9:59 PM:

" Perhaps seedy thinks the president logs onto this site. lol! "

It wouldn't bother me one bit if he did,but you would probably get a tingle run down your leg! ROLMAO!!!! "

The Question wrote on Sep 2, 2009 7:02 AM:

" I have to say that video appears to be genuine, another example of a thug cop who does not understand the concept of free speech and the First Amendment in this nation.
As for the repeated lies of the slime at Fox News identifying disgraced Republicans as Democrats, the screen captures can be found here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/06/24/fox-news-identifies-sanfo_n_220377.html
By the way, Fox News admitted its lie about Sanford and "apologized" for it. Trace Gallagher, of Fox News' "Live Desk," offered this on-air apology:
"We just want to make a correction to something we put up on the screen during our coverage of the governor's press conference yesterday. We briefly identified Governor Sanford as a Democrat. He is, of course, a Republican and we apologize for getting it wrong."
Funny that Fox News has identified disgraced Republicans as Democrats when they are caught red-headed, but never "mistakenly" identifies disgraced Democrats as Republicans. Why is that, do you think? "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 2, 2009 8:02 AM:

" That's a big fat lie !! Where is the proof that happened.

Ever heard of Google? Try it on this issue and you'll find literally dozens of sites reporting Fox's error on reporting both of these Republicans as Democrats. Sorry seedy, but as usual, you got it wrong and our friend TQ got it right. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 2, 2009 8:25 AM:

" Palin's allegation that Obamacare would result in creation of government "death panels" has been widely criticized within her own party. Republican strategist Whit Ayres, who is no fan of the Democratic health care plan, noted: "Wildly inappropriate comments hurt the argument that the comments are supposed to support."

As early as last October, conservative New York Times columnist David Brooks called Palin "a fatal cancer on the Republican Party," and George F. Will, a voice of the Republican establishment, dismissed the former Alaska governor as "an inveterate simplifier."
Huffington post-

Oh my, it looks like some members of the GOP see Palin for what she really is. Of course the uneducated trailer park contingency (the Limbaugh, Beck and Palin fans) of the far right will continue to see her as the savior of their party. Fortunately for all of us, fringe groups don't win major elections. "

father bob wrote on Sep 2, 2009 9:32 AM:

" BW wrote on Sep 1, 2009 7:35 PM:
" fb, why do you suppose that horse died? """"

it's one of five different proposals, none of which will be considered in their present state....that has been acknowledged from both sides. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 2, 2009 11:09 AM:

" WASHINGTON -- Government efforts to funnel hundreds of billions of dollars into the U.S. economy appear to be helping the U.S. climb out of the worst recession in decade.

The U.S. economy is beginning to show signs of improvement, with many economists asserting the worst is past and data pointing to stronger-than-expected growth. On Tuesday, data showed manufacturing grew in August for the first time in more than a year. "There's a method to the madness. We're getting out of this," said Brian Bethune, chief U.S. financial economist at IHS Global Insight.
The Wall Street Journal-

Oh my, no wonder Fox is covering health care 24/7. I'm sure Fox won't be talking about this today.

This may just shoot Sean Hannity's theory about the stimulus package in the rear. lol! "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 2, 2009 12:53 PM:

" I saw one of the morons on Fox this morning, weather man and ex TV clown Steve Doofus, I mean Doocy, asking his viewers to send him e-mails about liberal high school teachers. I guess Fox news is going after public school teachers now. lol! "

father bob wrote on Sep 2, 2009 2:55 PM:

" WASHINGTONIn the continuing controversy surrounding the president's U.S. citizenship, a new fringe group informally known as "Afterbirthers" demanded Monday the authentication of Barack Obama's placenta from his time inside his mother's womb. "

The Question wrote on Sep 2, 2009 2:57 PM:

" A 65-year-old man rallying in favor of healthcare reform was knocked to the ground by a man who disagreed with the call for a government-run health plan outside of a Greater Miami Chamber of Commerce meeting headlined by Sen. Bill Nelson.
Luis Perrero of Coral Gables was standing among about 40 Democratic activists and union workers when a man in a Ford pick-up truck pulled up to the rally at Jungle Island and began arguing with the crowd. He punched Perrero in the face. Perrero fell to the ground and lay motionless for a few minutes.
More right wing thugs on parade. They can't debate the issue, of course. Animals never can. "

The Question wrote on Sep 2, 2009 3:42 PM:

" In the U.S., one adult in five believes the sun revolves around the Earth; two-thirds of young adults are unable to find Iraq on a map and two-thirds of U.S. voters cannot name the three branches of government.
And if Fox News can just succeed in its effort to purge those scary liberals in education, I'm confident we can get those figures up to at least three in five adults and three-quarters of young adults and voters. "

father bob wrote on Sep 2, 2009 5:31 PM:

" The Question wrote on Sep 2, 2009 3:42 PM:
" In the U.S., one adult in five believes the sun revolves around the Earth; two-thirds of young adults are unable to find Iraq on a map and two-thirds of U.S. voters cannot name the three branches of government.
And if Fox News can just succeed in its effort to purge those scary liberals in education, I'm confident we can get those figures up to at least three in five adults and three-quarters of young adults and voters. """""

you can thank the "no idiot left behind" program our ex-cheerleader-in-chief was so proud of. "

The Shadow wrote on Sep 2, 2009 5:55 PM:

" Another Sarah the Sap moment:

Palin often complained that her job as governor was "too hard", and after spending a couple weeks of being gloomy about losing the vice presidency, she focused on making money instead of the needs of Alaskans.

Sarah was sad for a while. She walked around the house pouting. A week or two after she got back she started talking about how nice it would be to quit and write a book or do a show and make 'triple the money'. She would blatantly say, 'I want to just take this money and quit being governor.'

Ante up, the Quitter Queen from the tundra loves to blow them wads. "

Locke wrote on Sep 2, 2009 9:42 PM:

" Headline could be simplified to...

Conservatives lie. "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 2, 2009 10:47 PM:

" Kerry quickly invoked Kennedy's memory and promised to push for the best health care reform package possible.

EVERYBODY BEWARD!!!!!
There has been a Rambo Kerry sighting in the area. My, what a hero he is!!!!!!!!! "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 2, 2009 10:55 PM:

" " A 65-year-old man rallying in favor of healthcare reform was knocked to the ground by a man who disagreed with the call for a government-run health plan outside of a Greater Miami Chamber of Commerce meeting headlined by Sen. Bill Nelson.
Luis Perrero of Coral Gables was standing among about 40 Democratic activists and union workers when a man in a Ford pick-up truck pulled up to the rally at Jungle Island and began arguing with the crowd. He punched Perrero in the face. Perrero fell to the ground and lay motionless for a few minutes.
More right wing thugs on parade. They can't debate the issue, of course. Animals never can. "

HAHAHAHAHA ROLMAO!!! WANT A PITY PARTY? "

The Question wrote on Sep 3, 2009 8:01 AM:

" HAHAHAHAHA ROLMAO!!! WANT A PITY PARTY? "
---
So you're in favor of having senior citizens beaten up if they dare to express opinions that you don't agree with, Seedy? Somehow, I'm not surprised. "

AnnaNiemaus wrote on Sep 3, 2009 8:57 AM:

" cedric66 wrote on Sep 1, 2009 9:52 PM:
" Conservatives lie? But only Democrats lie, according to the right-wing spokeschannel Fox News.
Of course, Fox News is the channel that identified disgraced Republican Gov. Mark Sanford as a Democrat on the day he admitted his extra-hemispheric philandering.
And Fox News also changed Congressman Mark Foley's party affiliation from Republican to Democratic after it was inescapably confirmed that Foley was sexually soliciting teenage male pages in Congress.
Conservatives and Republicans aren't merely liars. They have hired experts to help them with their lying. "

That's a big fat lie !! Where is the proof that happened. Your word isn't worth a response "

It's not a lie; I was astonished to see it myself that day. And here's Fox's apology:

http://mediamatters.org/mmtv/200906250030

Of course, Fox did sue for the right to do this:

The attorneys for Fox, owned by media baron Rupert Murdoch, successfully argued the First Amendment gives broadcasters the right to lie or deliberately distort news reports on the public airwaves.
http://www.ceasespin.org/ceasespin_blog/ceasespin_blogger_files/fox_news_gets_okay_to_misinform_public.html "

even steven wrote on Sep 3, 2009 12:05 PM:

" There is a TEA Party gathering in Effingham at the old courthouse building Sept. 12 at 2 PM. I'm sure it will be well attended. People I know ranging in age from 18 to 80 plan to be there. "

The Question wrote on Sep 3, 2009 2:32 PM:

" An anti-government health care protester's finger was bitten off in a brawl in Thousand Oaks, CA, Wednesday, but it was reattached.
By Medicare. "

even steven wrote on Sep 3, 2009 2:59 PM:

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 3, 2009 4:29 PM:

" Typical of hateful little powerless leftists... "

As usual you seem confused, even. The "powerless leftists" are in control of the WH, the Senate and the House of Representatives. That doesn't sound powerless to me. Happy to have cleared that up for you.

Oh yes, we know wait till next election. lol! "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 3, 2009 4:32 PM:

" Speaking of lying Republicans:

A South Carolina state senator says none other than Gov. Mark Sanford (R) is behind rumors that Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer is gay.

In a letter to South Carolina legislators, a prominent state senator Thursday said Gov. Mark Sanford's supporters were behind recent Internet rumors that Lt. Gov. Andre Bauer is gay. And he encouraged the General Assembly to remove the disgraced governor immediately.

Good grief, they even lie about members of their own party. "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 3, 2009 5:00 PM:

" I heard the account of the old man who was accosted and attacked by the Obama toady. It figures the Obama toady would pick on an elderly man rather than someone closer to his age who would have more than likely kicked his butt. Typical of hateful little powerless leftists... "

That is the code of the loons. Always make sure that they are old and stomp them. Then lie and say they were attacked. It happens at every stop!!

Hey Q? You still want the pity party???? "

father bob wrote on Sep 3, 2009 5:13 PM:

" From Hippocrates Oath:

Into whatever houses I enter, I will go into them for the benefit of the sick, and will abstain from every voluntary act of mischief and corruption; and, further from the seduction of females or males, of freemen and slaves.

The non-profit organization Physicians for Human Rights (PHR) has issued a report on the extent that medical professionals were involved in the torture programs at Abu Ghraib, Bagram and Guantanamo.

The version of the 2004 CIA Inspector Generals report released on August 24, 2009 provides greater detail on the central role that health professionals played in the CIAs torture program and reveals a level of ethical misconduct that had not previously come to light.
The report confirms that the CIA inflicted torture on detainees interrogated while in US custody as part of the agencys counterterrorism activities and exposes additional interrogation techniques that had not yet been reported. It also demonstrates that health professionals were involved at every stage in the development, implementation and legitimization of this torture program.

~TZ~ "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 3, 2009 5:23 PM:

" Nixon made clear that the Secret Service protection afforded Kennedy before the 1972 election would be rescinded after. Then, said the president, "If he gets shot, it's too damn bad."
Fox news- (of all places)

Looks like seedy thinks along the same lines as Richard Nixon. lol! "

I don't believe you can find one post of mine that suggests Bongo Ears should be killed. Sorry Harry, You are WRONG again as usual. If I did, just show me the post!!!!!!! "

Bps wrote on Sep 3, 2009 7:27 PM:

" The Question wrote on Sep 3, 2009 2:32 PM:
" An anti-government health care protester's finger was bitten off in a brawl in Thousand Oaks, CA, Wednesday, but it was reattached.
By Medicare. "
-----------
Just in case some of you want just a little bit more information on this like I did, as Paul Harvey Senior used to say- and now the rest of the story:

THOUSAND OAKS, Calif. California authorities say a clash between opponents and supporters of health care reform ended with one man biting off another man's finger.

VENTURA COUNTY SHERIFF'S CAPT. FRANK O'HANLON SAYS ABOUT 100 PEOPLE DEMONSTRATING IN FAVOR OF HEALTH CARE REFORMS RALLIED WEDNESDAY NIGHT ON A STREET CORNER. ONE PROTESTER WALKED ACROSS THE STREET TO CONFRONT ABOUT 25 COUNTER-DEMONSTRATORS.

(Note- a supporter of the Democrat Health Care walked across the street to get to the dissenters)

O'Hanlon says the man (the supporter) got into an argument and fist fight, during which he bit off the left pinky of a 65-year-old man who opposed health care reform.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090903/ap_on_re_us/us_finger_severed

-------------

Oh, it appears TQ was mistaken on it being reattached- Mr. Rice said doctors did not reattach the bitten-off part of his left pinky (read the link)

I would venture that TQs main point was his last- the dissenter against the health industry takeover by the government used Medicare.

Hum TQ, do you think he used Medicare because the victim was 65 years old and when you reach 65 you are pretty much FORCED to go on Medicare with a supplemental insurance? (Notice I said forced)

Did you know that the government FORCES hospitals and Doctors to accept a value for their services and procedures that is set by the government bureaucrats?

Did you know that in the end if the amount paid by the government is less than the cost provided services or of those that cant or dont pay their bills, it eventually gets charged to those that do pay their non-Medicare bills?

Just like EVER big government program Medicare is in the hole to the tune of $27.8 trillion dollars (QUOTE)- Medicare, the health care program for the elderly, must find an estimated $27.8 trillion.(END) Just for you I used the figure from MSNBC.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7053462/

Of course that figure was from when Bush was in charge. Who really knows how much it is really in the hole. Of course that is before and if the Democrats cut backs its funding as they have been talking about with some of their options on health care. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 3, 2009 7:57 PM:

" So what's going on with two of the former Bush officials? Last week Ridge said he was pressured to raise the terrorists alert levels just before election day, then in a few short days he said there was no pressure.

Next Gonzales said an investigation into the CIA was a good idea, and now today he says it's a bad idea.

Usually flip flops are reserved for those running for office, like the ultimate flip flopper, Mitt Romney, but in this case two former top level Bush officials have flip flopped within a week. Who's putting on the pressure?

This is reminiscent of all those GOP biggies, like Michael Steele, who spoke out against Rush Limbaugh only to come crawling back and kiss his ring, on air no less.

Perhaps we should rename the party of no to the party of flip flops.

They could even adopt the old classic Bobby Darrin song "Splish Splash" by inserting the words flip flop for splish splash. "

lefty wrote on Sep 4, 2009 12:39 AM:

" I like how EVEN STEVEN keeps callin lefties wimps, wusses, panty-wastes and so on, and so on. I am left of center and have no doubt that I can romp the light-weight right-wing crybaby known as EVEN STEVEN. He reminds me of that annoying kid in high school that would mouth off, then when you you confront em, he would crumple on the ground, begging for forgiveness. Then, as you walk away, he would make another snide remark and run behind the playground supervisor.

Keep projecting your insecurities. Maybe you and Glenn Beck can have a crybaby session? Maybe listen to the Cure? "

The Question wrote on Sep 4, 2009 6:01 AM:

" It was a remarkably short step for right wingers to go from "if you criticize the president you are a traitor" to "school children should not trust the president." I guess it's easy if you're flaming hypocrites devoted to lying propaganda. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Sep 4, 2009 8:16 AM:

" I see Obama wants to force his educational dogma down the throats of our public school kids.

What's next?

Making public school kids wear red barets and red scarfs with hammer and sickle emblems enblazened on them while playing the Soviet anthem in the background?

Russian Anthem = http://tiny.cc/g79Pm "

The Question wrote on Sep 4, 2009 8:19 AM:

" If people are stupid enough to need health care, and unable to afford it, it's their own darn fault. The slackers. The rest of us should laugh at them for not taking care of themselves, while we make war on the rest of the world (and make sure everyone in the new Iraq gets government health care, of course). "

lefty wrote on Sep 4, 2009 11:31 AM:

" Right NEOCON, when Bush and Reagan did it, it was kosher. When Obama does it, it's STALIN!!!!

You should probably retreat back into your compound. "

father bob wrote on Sep 4, 2009 12:09 PM:

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Sep 4, 2009 8:16 AM:
" I see Obama wants to force his educational dogma down the throats of our public school kids.

What's next? """""

ROFLMAO!!!....heaven forbid he asks school children to "work hard" and develop good work ethic and do their best....this of course means they will turn out to be socialist zombies!

pass me those soylent green wafers!! "

cedric66 wrote on Sep 5, 2009 12:33 AM:

" ROCK HILL A hostile crowd greeted U.S. Rep. John Spratt in his home county Thursday night, filling a 700-seat hall to voice anger over far more than health-care reform.

Many in the Rock Hill audience lashed out at illegal immigration, House Majority Leader Nancy Pelosi and a federal government they say no longer deserves the trust of Americans.

Outside, an overflow crowd of 200 listened on portable speakers. "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 5, 2009 8:32 AM:

" Good news for the GOP. Even though Sarah seems to be tanking after her less than spectacular bail out as governor, and her incoherent and totally false blathering via Twitter, they still have Michelle Bachman, who is now dropping hints she might be interested is the presidency. Bachman's mutterings are worth a post of their own. Stay tuned, I won't dissapoint. I know my right wing fans on here will be anxiously waiting. "

Bps wrote on Sep 5, 2009 7:20 PM:

" father bob wrote on Sep 4, 2009 12:09 PM:
ROFLMAO!!!....heaven forbid he asks school children to "work hard" and develop good work ethic and do their best....this of course means they will turn out to be socialist zombies!

pass me those soylent green wafers!! "
-----------------

Actually, there is no reason to trust the current administrations motives in any form.

But protesting a speech before it is given is a lose-lose for conservatives or any protesting parents.

To do so would most likey lead the protestors to ridicule and based upon the typical approach of the advisers to this administration would really like to accomplish.

Think about it.

Anyone who takes their kids out of class next Tuesday, sends angry letters to local school officials, calls principals and vents or set up a boycott in front of the school plays right into a well scripted plan.

Most probable is that Obama presents his speech and it is released to his willing allies in the MPM (Mainstream Propaganda Managers) and guess what- the speech will start with Obama reciting the United States Pledge of Allegiance, proceeds to the importance of staying in school and getting good grades, and highlights some of the positive contributions that the public education system has promoted for society as a whole.

The much speculated indoctrination speech was shelved or never existed and any protests by conservatives will be blanket covered and ridiculed by the MSM as over reaction.

Slicker than Slick Willie at his best.

But why not, look at all those from Clintons old gang working in the background of this administration and then add in the Chicago contingent.

So in other words- lose lose for those who protest a speech before it is given.

Reasonable points, logical debate, logical actions and not running off the deep end are the key to winning.

They may be slick politicians in office but their actions so far are failures and all they are selling now is snake oil.

Sooner or later the majority of people will realize this. "

Amber wrote on Sep 6, 2009 3:45 AM:

" Most of the posts on here are pretty good except for one that really stands out.And what i mean by that is "copy & paste,copy & paste.I bet hp & fb knows who i am talking about.I very seldom ever post but i do like to read most of it.Gotta get to bed because some people have to work to get a pay check.Happy labor day wk end folks! "

G-MAN wrote on Sep 7, 2009 2:27 AM:

" Harry Potter wrote---How's that, G-man? I was as kind as I could be considering the sentiments expressed by cedric."----------I'll give you a b+ on that Harry! lol "

7X6Z9 wrote on Sep 13, 2009 11:18 AM:

" ASSOCIATED PRESS FACT CHECK: WED NIGHT OBAMACARE SPEECH- OBAMA LIED

OBAMA: "I will not sign a plan that adds one dime to our deficits either now or in the future. Period."

THE FACTS: Though there's no final plan yet, the White House and congressional Democrats already have shown they're ready to skirt the no-new-deficits pledge.

House Democrats offered a bill that the Congressional Budget Office said would add $220 billion to the deficit over 10 years. But Democrats and Obama administration officials claimed the bill actually was deficit-neutral. They said they simply didn't have to count $245 billion of it the cost of adjusting Medicare reimbursement rates so physicians don't face big annual pay cuts.

Their reasoning was that they already had decided to exempt this "doc fix" from congressional rules that require new programs to be paid for. In other words, it doesn't have to be paid for because they decided it doesn't have to be paid for.

The administration also said that since Obama already had included the doctor payment in his 10-year budget proposal, it didn't have to be counted again.

That aside, the long-term prognosis for costs of the health care legislation has not been good.

CBO Director Douglas Elmendorf had this to say in July: "We do not see the sort of fundamental changes that would be necessary to reduce the trajectory of federal health spending by a significant amount." "

7X6Z9 wrote on Sep 13, 2009 11:19 AM:

" ASSOCIATED PRESS FACT CHECK: WED NIGHT OBAMACARE SPEECH- OBAMA LIED

OBAMA: "Nothing in this plan will require you or your employer to change the coverage or the doctor you have."

THE FACTS: That's correct, as far as it goes. But neither can the plan guarantee that people can keep their current coverage. Employers sponsor coverage for most families, and they'd be free to change their health plans in ways that workers may not like, or drop insurance altogether. The Congressional Budget Office analyzed the health care bill written by House Democrats and said that by 2016 some 3 million people who now have employer-based care would lose it because their employers would decide to stop offering it.

In the past Obama repeatedly said, "If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan, period." Now he's stopping short of that unconditional guarantee by saying nothing in the plan "requires" any change. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Sep 13, 2009 11:21 AM:

" ASSOCIATED PRESS FACT CHECK: WED NIGHT OBAMACARE SPEECH- OBAMA LIED

OBAMA: "Don't pay attention to those scary stories about how your benefits will be cut. ... That will never happen on my watch. I will protect Medicare."

THE FACTS: Obama and congressional Democrats want to pay for their health care plans in part by reducing Medicare payments to providers by more than $500 billion over 10 years. The cuts would largely hit hospitals and Medicare Advantage, the part of the Medicare program operated through private insurance companies.

Although wasteful spending in Medicare is widely acknowledged, many experts believe some seniors almost certainly would see reduced benefits from the cuts. That's particularly true for the 25 percent of Medicare users covered through Medicare Advantage.

Supporters contend that providers could absorb the cuts by improving how they operate and wouldn't have to reduce benefits or pass along costs. But there's certainly no guarantee they wouldn't. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Sep 13, 2009 11:22 AM:

" ASSOCIATED PRESS FACT CHECK: WED NIGHT OBAMACARE SPEECH- OBAMA LIED

OBAMA: Requiring insurance companies to cover preventive care like mammograms and colonoscopies "makes sense, it saves money, and it saves lives."

THE FACTS: Studies have shown that much preventive care particularly tests like the ones Obama mentions actually costs money instead of saving it. That's because detecting acute diseases like breast cancer in their early stages involves testing many people who would never end up developing the disease. The costs of a large number of tests, even if they're relatively cheap, will outweigh the costs of caring for the minority of people who would have ended up getting sick without the testing.

The Congressional Budget Office wrote in August: "The evidence suggests that for most preventive services, expanded utilization leads to higher, not lower, medical spending overall."

That doesn't mean preventive care doesn't make sense or save lives. It just doesn't save money. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Sep 13, 2009 11:42 AM:

" GEE, SENATE TO CLOSE OBAMACARE LOOPHOLE FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS THAT MEDIA CLAIMS UHM... DOESN'T EXIST

TIME (Friday, Sep. 11, 2009) The controversy over Republican Rep. Joe Wilson's shouting out "You Lie!" at the President over his claim that illegal immigrants wouldn't benefit from health-care reform apparently sparked some reconsideration of the relevant language. "We really thought we'd resolved this question of people who are here illegally, but as we reflected on the President's speech last night we wanted to go back and drill down again," said Senator Kent Conrad, one of the Democrats in the talks after a meeting Thursday morning. Baucus later that afternoon said the group would put in a proof of citizenship requirement to participate in the new health exchange a move likely to inflame the left.

------------

Golly gee? So there WAS a loophole for illegal immigrants? Hmmm.

And Obama knew nothing NOTHING about this? Hmmmmm.

And now closing it will INFLAME the Left? Hmmmmmmmmmmm.

Uhm....help me out here Lefties- did Wilson "lie" or is Obama just ignorant to the facts?

Hmmmmmmmmm? "

Harry Potter wrote on Sep 13, 2009 7:50 PM:

" G-MAN wrote on Sep 7, 2009 2:27 AM:

" Harry Potter wrote---How's that, G-man? I was as kind as I could be considering the sentiments expressed by cedric."----------I'll give you a b+ on that Harry! lol "

Thanks G-MAN, I promise I'll try harder. lol! "