" OBAMA: HEY, OBAMA-CARE WILL LET YOU KEEP YOUR PRIVATE HEALTH INSURANCE

WASHINGTON POST: UHM... THAT'S NOT TRUE


WASHINGTON POST (Aug 17 2009) ....Democratic legislative aides said there is no assurance that any of the options offered in the exchange would be the same as employees current coverage.

Because coverage offered through an exchange would have to comply with new requirements, it could easily be different.

At a minimum, the exchanges would be open to small employers, but government officials would have the discretion to open the exchanges to larger employers....

Obamas promise is not just at odds with legislative proposals it is also at odds with reality.
-------------


So you see- the real disinformation is blowing out of the mouth of the BSer-in-Chief: Barry Hussein Obama.

Now you know. "

" Those 'screaming voices' are democracy in action. Or maybe you'd rather listen to the plants in the Dems audiences, like the little girl who asked the president a question. Or better yet, the woman in Houston who said she was a primary care physician and Sheila Jackson Lee gave her a big hug. Guess what? Turns out to be a lie. She's an organizer in Obama's Organizing for American web. OH, one other question, how is the president going to pay for this? Could it possibly be coming out of your pocket and mine? Let me guess. "

" JO ELLEN JACOBS.....it's great to hear a reasonable human being express herself. great letter!

83% of americans are in favor of a government option. that speaks volumes...now if only "paid-off" politicians hear them. "

" So by that logic, the government should force auto insurance companies to charge someone with five DUI's the same rates that you pay. Insurance companies are businesses and they cannot just give money away. These insurance conditions, while they may seem cruel and discriminatory, are the means by which they can sell coverage that is adequate and affordable for the majority of us. If they didn't another company would, and people would change. If insurance companies covered everyone and everything, we would ALL have to pay more to make up for it. It's called a free market. The problem is not insurance coverage, it is high health care and drug costs. That needs to be the problem that the government tackling. "

" Concerning your "death panels" comment, Obama did say July 22, when he said senior citizens will be evaluated before being allowed to undergo surgery once ObamaCare is in place. Pending the outcome of the evaluation, where bureaucrats will decided whether grandma or grandpa is worth saving, the citizen may be told theyre better off not having the surgery but taking [a] painkiller [instead]. Hmmm, wonder if he should have said that to Ted Kennedy. "

" Actually, this letter is filled with disinformation. It reads like the propaganda and lies posted on the White House's own web site. (And yes, you can also report me to Big Brother at that site, since I'm belittling President Pantywaist's stupid and socialist health care takeover).

And those "screaming voices" are getting ready to vote all those condescending and pompous Democrats who belittle their constituants out of office. "

" ed miller wrote on Aug 19, 2009 9:51 AM:

" So by that logic, the government should force auto insurance companies to charge someone with five DUI's the same rates that you pay.

Give me a break Ed Miller!! DUI is a personal choice! Asthma, heart disease, cancer, broken ankles are not! You cannot compare cars insurance to health insurance. Just because they end with the same word doesn't mean they are the same thing. "

" Jo Ellen....we have the truth, they have Cluster Fox.

thanks for sharing! "

" "Insurance companies are businesses and they cannot just give money away"

That's why they shouldn't be the ones deciding our health care options. All they see is the bottom line and it's customers and nothing but trouble makers. The whole insurance business is what Palin called death panels. "

" Those 'screaming voices' are democracy in action.

Yeah right, Marty. Just like those screaming at the Palin rallies, kill him, kill him.... "

" Becky, actually, insurance companies make the most money by bidding the lowest price to their customers, and offering the best service to the most people. In fact, that's the only way ANY business makes money, otherwise they won't stay in business for long. You seem to suggest that the profit motive is not beneficial to people. If you really believe that, I suggest your family stop working for money, and just donate its time from now on.

The best and most immediate way to help insurance companies to lower cost is through tax reform. Under existing law, employer payments for health insurance are deductible by the employer, but are not included in the taxable income for the employee. This leads to companies offering very generous health insurance with very low copayment rates, generating excessive testing and inappropriately expensive forms of care. The current tax rule inflates private health-care spending by as much as 35%. Tax reform, therefore, could lower costs almost overnight. "

" I love those town hall meetings-especially the ones where a person can't even read the question he was furnished to ask. Ah, the transparency. "

" Harry Potter wrote on Aug 19, 2009 2:55 PM:
" Those 'screaming voices' are democracy in action.

Yeah right, Marty. Just like those screaming at the Palin rallies, kill him, kill him.... """""


or those saying nothing, but carrying weapons. "

" Becky,

Smoking is a choice. My life insurance charges more for people who smoke. Also, my personal life insurance did not cover me while I was in Iraq. That was my job. I accepted the risk and did not expect others to pay for it. What about obese people who overeat and do not exercise? That causes many health issues. Who pays for that? That could also be construed as a choice. To stay in business, insurance companies must avoid high risk to keep costs down for all. If the government forced them to accept anything, we would all have to pay. The result would either be the insurance companies going out of business or no one being able to afford their services. How is that an improvement? "

" Well stated Jo,something needs to be done and done soon. You know you repubs had 8 years to try and get something accomplished and failed to get anything done. How hard did they really try? Now, since its brought up and being pushed by the democrats its filled with bad ideas. Well Im sure there are changes that need to be made but I for one have worked at my employer for 14 years and started out paying $30 for my familys healthcare and now its close to $250 and worse then ever. What are these people who have lost there jobs supposed to do? You tell me repubs you have all the answers . Oh darn, I forgot you are probably to worried today about how short Michelle Obamas shorts are. "

" father bob wrote on Aug 19, 2009 9:47 AM:
83% of Americans are in favor of a government option. that speaks volumes...now if only "paid-off" politicians hear them
---------------
Interesting post fb and the way it implies support for the current plan (s?) being pushed by the Dummy-crats.

My original problem was it was un-sourced (poor form fb).

There was no way to know if you walked around your neighborhood for a poll or just made it up so

Did a little research which showed you probably got this from a liberal blog that posted some of the results of a EBRI (The Employee Benefit Research Institute) study.

Link to study:

http://tinyurl.com/nuzuvf

The study was an interesting read, but rather confusing in its extremely mixed results.

Lets look at fbs 83% figure in at least a little more detail.

CREATING A NEW PUBLIC HEALTH INSURANCE PLAN THAT ANYONE CAN PURCHASE:

Strongly support53 percent
Somewhat support30 percent
Somewhat oppose5 percent
Strongly oppose9 percent

When you dig through the whole paper there are two glaring problems with this section:

1. New public health insurance plan is never defined in the research paper or apparently to those polled, so those polled defined what it meant in their own minds.

2. Somewhat support means a large span of opinions.

Other than 53% of those polled who indicated they strongly support the idea of a new public health plan (as it is defined in their own minds), there is little that seems clear with this section.

There is certainly nothing to indicate what plan or parts of a plan they support.

Interestingly, the same study showed:
1) Only 15% rate Health care to be most pressing problem in America today.

2) 47% identify the economy as the most critical issue facing America today.

3) 52% strongly support allowing Insurance health plans to offer health coverage on a national basis and 36% somewhat support it

Since the Dummy-crats cant make up their minds on what they are planning on Rahming (as in Emanuel) through and forcing on the American People, guess we really wont know how the people really feel until 2010. "

" Harry Potter wrote on Aug 19, 2009 2:55 PM:
" Those 'screaming voices' are democracy in action.

Yeah right, Marty. Just like those screaming at the Palin rallies, kill him, kill him.... "
-----------------
HP, Will you condemn all who publically advocate violence?

How about this one on this very site:

father bob wrote on Feb 23, 2009 9:46 AM:
" a public hanging of bush and cheney would be nice....the same end as they gave saddam.

Hum HP? "

" Without public option there is no reform, just more of the same multiplied by whatever number they choose to multiply it by. "

" ed miller wrote on Aug 19, 2009 6:00 PM:

" Becky,

Smoking is a choice.

Not everyone with cancer smoked.

"If insurance companies covered everyone and everything, we would ALL have to pay more to make up for it."

So those with diabetes, heart disease, kidney disease, asthma, muscular distrophy, lymphoma, chronic pain and the hundreds of other ailments and diseases that need medical care can just pi** up a rope huh? Because Ed Miller could care less? Well, many of us do care and you already do pay more to make up for it because most of the people that insurance won't cover are on medicare/medicaid.

Also, with your beloved private insurance companies, over half of the bankruptcies in this country are due to medical bills and 75% of those people HAD INSURANCE!!!

I have nothing against business making money but making that money by making your customers miserable is a terrible way to make it. Private insurance has had ample opportunity to "fix" these problems but they don't. They have so many dirty tricks up their sleeves and you don't even know what they are capable of until you find yourself in catastrophic circumstances. Then they go back and find some excuse like you crossed your t's on your application wrong and bam, your cancelled. It's time for something better. "

" HP, Will you condemn all who publically advocate violence?

How about this one on this very site:

father bob wrote on Feb 23, 2009 9:46 AM:
" a public hanging of bush and cheney would be nice....the same end as they gave saddam.

Hum HP? "

I'll make you a deal Bps, when I see any of you right wingers criticise each other, I'll answer your question. Fair enough?

I have to wonder why your side is always trying to get those on the left to criticise each other. Odd, considering that you let everything pass that gets posted by someone from the right.

By the way, when those nutcases were screaming "kill him, kill him", Sarah was smiling at them. That OK with you? "

" Calm down Becky. I am not defending the insurance industry. I just stated that if the government charged in on their white horse and forced insurance companies to cover everything and everybody, they would either go bankrupt or the rest of us would no longer be able to afford insurance. This should be obvious to anyone and I thought you, more than most here would be against the government getting bigger. YES, we need to make health care more accessible to everyone (legally) in this country, but having the government in the insurance business is not the right way to do it. "

" pretty cool stuff....

http://tinyurl.com/ntk58u



Earlier this year, Secretary Sebelius toured Omaha's Alegent Health Lakeside Hospital to see how one hospital is using health information technology.

Today, we're releasing a new video showing some of the highlights of her trip.

Later this morning, Vice President Joe Biden and Secretary Sebelius will also be making a major announcement regarding the availability of grants worth nearly $1.2 billion to help hospitals and health care providers implement and use electronic health records. The grants are funded by the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 (ARRA) and will help health care providers qualify for new incentives that will be made available in 2011 to doctors and hospitals that meaningfully use electronic health records.

Electronic health records are pillars of a reformed health care system. Together, our investment in health information technology and proposals to improve health insurance options and affordability will help ensure all Americans get the high quality care they deserve.

Sincerely,

Jeanne Lambrew
Director, HHS Office of Health Reform "

" Another shoe dropped this morning.

Othopedic Surgeon Kuklo of Washington U (St. Louis) sold his pseudo-research re bone growth to drug company Medtronic which makes the drug Infuse for which Kuklo falsified favorable research. The buying price by the drug company: $800,000.

[Incidentally veterans will be interested to know his pseudo-research on "enhanced" bone growth was performed on wounded soldiers.]

As the Post-Dispatch wrote in an editorial column a few days ago: "Thousands of angry protesters turned out at town hall meetings .... to pledge support for the world's 37th best-performing health care system" --- and as has become more obvious day by day, the MOST DISHONEST.

And some people would still prefer to derive their health care from lying drug companies who buy false research to support sales of their product than a government option which they would control democratically. True, the control is "indirect" thru the ballot box, but when do you EVER get to vote for/against a dishonest drug company?????
Dummmmmmmmmmmb. "

" Government ran health care more efficient???

Lets look at one of their latest debacles to see how well the Obama gooberment does things:

NY dealers pull out of clunkers program
The Greater New York Automobile Dealers Association, which represents dealerships in the New York metro area, said about half its 425 members have left the program because they cannot afford to offer more rebates. They're also worried about getting repaid.

(The government) needs to move the system forward and they need to start paying these dealers," said Mark Schienberg, the group's president. "This is a cash-dependent business."

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9A63RC81&show_article=1

First they had to hold the program because they underestimated the costs, now they are slow in paying and making the dealers to finiance the gooberments debt until it finally pays up.

Hum, sounds like every gooberment program (regardless of party) that we have had.

Sure, they can run it more efficiently, sure the Drs will be happy with mandated costs and only the allowed treatments, sure it will be different than your old HMO, sure youll keep your coverage, sure you can chose your Dr.,.

Yep, you-betcha.

Want to buy some snake-oil pilgrims? "

" I was reading something on yahoo last night that was outlining some of the actual things this health care plan is supposed to do, and I think that all of this leaked "mis information" has everyone including me so lost and confused we can't make an informed decision about whether or not this health care plan is a good idea. I was under the impression that this proposed health care plan was to offer options to those who are UN Insured, that people could still keep their exisiting insurance if they chose to do so, or they could opt to buy into the new goverment plans ( if they ever get approved) rather than any media outlet be they local or national providing "slanted information" why can't they give us the low down the real details and break it into plain English not "goverment jargon" so that we can all understand what it is this proposal is supposed to actually provide. CNN even had a corespondant that said "the problem is there is nothing concrete to base any opinions on, so much of this proposed bill is still a lot of rough draft type of material a brainstorm of ideas if you will." Well if that is the case then why are the "ideas" being espoused by our politicains, citizens and media outlets as the truth? I want to know facts and only facts so that I can make an informed decision. "

" ed:"So by that logic, the government should force auto insurance companies to charge someone with five DUI's the same rates that you pay."

Ed, I don't think our conversation here is about a government option in AUTOMOBILE CARE.

BUT anyone with FIVE DUI's should be in prison for a LONG TIME, and I've no idea what the govt **HEALTH** plan would provide for prisoners. But it's my impression that prisoners ALREADY get better medical care than the uninsured -- isn't this true?? I have a cousin associated with Coles County law enforcement and I think he occasionally escorts prisoners to the hospital, and doesn't the county ALREADY pay??? If you KNOW I'm wrong, I know you will not hesitate to set me straight.

But maybe we can then drop auto insurance as off-topic and get back into the main stream. "

" Ed:"Obama did say July 22, when he said senior citizens will be evaluated before being allowed to undergo surgery"

Ed, I had surgery Monday. Before surgery I was "evaluated" by 2 nurses, and a physician, who ran a battery of tests to determine if I was "fit" for surgery. Just before surgery I was checked by an MD anesthesiologist.

Those with a nasty turn of mind turn this into the "death panel".

The LIES that are being told in an effort to bash Obama are astonishing.
Republican Congressman Roy Blount (MO) said this week "at age 59 he would not get a hip replacement if he were in Canada or England." He stated this as FACT.
The truth, as investigated by the newspaper, is that 63% of hip replacement in Candada and 66% in England are on people over 65. Further 1200 of those in Canada last year were OVER AGE 85. Blount is willing to TELL ANY LIE to defeat Obama's plan. "

" Harry Potter wrote on Aug 20, 2009 8:32 AM:
" HP, Will you condemn all who publically advocate violence?

How about this one on this very site:

father bob wrote on Feb 23, 2009 9:46 AM:
" a public hanging of bush and cheney would be nice....the same end as they gave saddam.

Hum HP? "

I'll make you a deal Bps, when I see any of you right wingers criticise each other, I'll answer your question. Fair enough?

I have to wonder why your side is always trying to get those on the left to criticise each other. Odd, considering that you let everything pass that gets posted by someone from the right.

By the way, when those nutcases were screaming "kill him, kill him", Sarah was smiling at them. That OK with you? "
-----------------

Let me answer your LAST question first-

NO IT IS NOT OK WITH ME.

If you furnished a valid link with proof she were smiling in support of this behavior, I will gladly say she was wrong.

You should know from my posts by now that party means nothing to me.

Now, to the rest of your post.

I did not ask you to condemn or criticize fb as a person, or commit any other act towards him. I did not ask you to throw him out of your little cadre.

In fact what I asked was would YOU CONDEM THE WORDS that he wrote on a public forum that said the same thing you found offensive when a rightist that you did not know or support, spoke them.

This is nothing more than a simple test of integrity and your core belief.

If it is wrong when the other side does it, it is just as wrong when your side does the same thing.

As far as your quote- considering that you let everything pass that gets posted by someone from the right end quote:

Sigh,

Broad based general assertions like this makes you look very foolish.

Anybody who wishs to take the time to read my posts would know I have criticized Bush and the Republican Party in my posts on this site often.

I have also posted rebuttals or what would be considered corrections to other conservative posters on this site. Not often, because usually they are close to the mark of what I support, but when in difference yes I have done so.

If you really mean do I tend to counter post leftist like your self often-

then why yes, yes I do.

See one of the main reasons for posting is to exchange and debate facts, ideas and opinion with those who are from a different perspective. To try to learn from each other and dialog.

No HP, if you truly believe something is wrong and you have integrity and honesty it is rather easy to condemn a wrong regardless of who does it.

So in this particular case, it seems your protest of an act was simply a device to make a political point, hum? "

" Bps wrote on Aug 19, 2009 9:00 PM:
" Harry Potter wrote on Aug 19, 2009 2:55 PM:
" Those 'screaming voices' are democracy in action.

Yeah right, Marty. Just like those screaming at the Palin rallies, kill him, kill him.... "
-----------------
HP, Will you condemn all who publically advocate violence?

How about this one on this very site:

father bob wrote on Feb 23, 2009 9:46 AM:
" a public hanging of bush and cheney would be nice....the same end as they gave saddam.

Hum HP? """"""



you rightwingers are all alike. you laud the murderers of hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children and get upset when someone wants justice and the morality to prevail. you worship these "heros" who are nothing more than vicious murdering zealots.....shame on you...you're unamerican. "

" http://crooksandliars.com/susie-madrak/wendell-potter-says-fat-cats-are-winn

Here's a video of the former CIGNA PR chief telling all about how private insurance really works. It's a must see for all. Then you also have a CEO telling the same thing on another show a few months back. So, if former CEOs and big wigs of private insurance is telling us we're being taken for a giant ride, maybe we should listen to them. I think they would be the ones who would know. "

" If you furnished a valid link with proof she were smiling in support of this behavior, I will gladly say she was wrong.

Sorry, but I can't. I did try YouTube, to no avail. I just remember the televised portions of her rallies and when the screaming started she did nothing to stop it. Perhaps I mistook a smirk for a smile, as she does that a lot. I recall thinking, why isn't she doing something to stop this sort of behavior. To his credit, I remember McCain stepping up and trying to calm the crowd down at one of their joint rallies, and for his efforts he was roundly booed by the crowd.

I'll keep looking. "

" Is it no wonder "rumors" fly when you combine things like Obama saying seniors will be evaluated before having surgery or other types of treatment as well as the senior citizen population accounting for the biggest expenditure in health care and some of Obama's top advisers saying that health care will need to be rationed and someone who is 25 years old is more entitled to have the money for treatment over someone who is 75 in conjunction with items in the bill such as "end of life" counseling sessions.

All 1000 plus pages of the bill are available on line. How many of you have read it? I am still working on it and am about 80% done with it.

Yes there is a lot of misinformation flying around and it is coming from both sides. Read the bill carefully and you will see for yourself. "

" father bob wrote on Aug 20, 2009 2:39 PM:
" Bps wrote on Aug 19, 2009 9:00 PM:
" Harry Potter wrote on Aug 19, 2009 2:55 PM:
" Those 'screaming voices' are democracy in action.

Yeah right, Marty. Just like those screaming at the Palin rallies, kill him, kill him.... "
-----------------
HP, Will you condemn all who publically advocate violence?

How about this one on this very site:

father bob wrote on Feb 23, 2009 9:46 AM:
" a public hanging of bush and cheney would be nice....the same end as they gave saddam.

Hum HP? """"""

you rightwingers are all alike. you laud the murderers of hundreds of thousands of innocent men women and children and get upset when someone wants justice and the morality to prevail. you worship these "heros" who are nothing more than vicious murdering zealots.....shame on you...you're unamerican. "
-----------
First please read my post at 1:34 for in respect to the other posters on this site, I dont wish to take up a lot of room reiterating.

Hurt when your own words prove youre a hypocrite?

Your silly rant shows that it did. You could have chosen to learn from the example, ignore it or dig yourself in deeper.

Sadly, what did you chose- trying to fill the hole by digging it deeper.

The generalizations you puked up to try to justify your own past poor behavior only proves that you are foolish and mistaken in your premise.

My body of posts speaks for me just as yours does for you.

My posts clearly show that in fact I have NEVER ADVOCATED VIOLANCE against any public official as your post clearly shows you have. Anyone on this site can do a simple search and see this for themselves.

If you wish, you may try to prove me wrong by supporting your fallacious arguments with actual entries from my posts. Then we could discuss where in my posts on this site that I have committed any of the offensives you attribute to me.

But, based upon your past pattern, the sure bet is you will learn nothing from this series of exchanges and will continue to prove to the others of this site which of us is un-American and troubled.

If you wish to continue to ignore facts, rant and rave, churn out the old hate speech against this countrys foundations and your fellow posters, have at it as it is fully your right under the first amendment.

Just dont expect anyone but your own little cadre to respect your opinions based upon hypocrisy, hate, generalizations and lies. "

" LISTEN!!!!!!!!!
There's all this BS about death panels as a political device to attack the opposition.
BUT you just as well face it; we're all GOING TO DIE. And when you're in your 80s as I am, the time is ... closer than you might think. The rest of you -- well you never know when ... accident, heart attack even when young (a high school football player died in StL yesterday).

In New York -- and I'm sure in other places -- physicians are being trained in HOW to gently tell people they are going to DIE. [I know a case here in Charleston where the father had to tell the young man he was going to DIE because the MD didn't have the courage.
They young man accepted it; they talked about it; finally one day (after talking to the MD) he told the young man that TODAY was probably going to be the day. The young man went to sleep -- and he had accepted death, and was angry when he woke up because he had to endure another day.......

I'm going to give you a website -- copy/paste -- and I insist you READ IT; play the few short movies. If you're over ... say 60, I DEMAND you read it.
It's not quite bad, but it's not like Gone With the Wind. It shows young MDs being trained in pallitive care and living with, advising, and treating people who are dying. At the beginning they use actors to PLAY the role, but we also see a real case unfold. At one point when the patient is in severe pain, so drugged she hardly knows what to do the husband says he can't see her starve BUT the situation is so desperate he asked the MD if he can't give something to "help her OUT of her pain."

READ it and you'll understand better why you NEED end-of-life directives. I'm not talking about politics, dammit, I'm talking about something you CANNOT evade. And also remember some doctors, understandably, feel that death is a professional insult, failure, and will (I'm not being critical) sometimes do EVERYTHING that MIGHT give the patient a few days despite extending the time of pain and un-living while "alive"....

Here it is: use Edit copy/paste

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/20/health/20doctors.html?pagewanted=1&th&emc=th "

" Jim 1969 do you have a link I can type in? I have typed in dozens of searches on this bill all I seem to come up with is all of the varying veiw points and I want the actual bill. As with any "issue" I want to read all of the facts not opinions not propoganda but facts so that I can look at all angles of the issue and then make an informed decision. thanks to anyone that can give me a link to the actual bill. I guess my dad was right making me take that political science and goverment class in my senior year of high school did pay off. "

" Cognitus wrote on Aug 20, 2009 11:22 PM:
"I'm going to give you a website -- copy/paste -- and I insist you READ IT; play the few short movies. If you're over ... say 60, I DEMAND you read it."""""


thanks my friend, that was a great read. keep up the superb posts. "

" "thanks my friend, that was a great read. keep up the superb posts. "

Thank you father bob. I won't be on a lot for the next 5 weeks. I'm going to Colorado where I work, spring and fall, for one of the federal land-management agencies, volunteer, but work regular 40 hour week -- just as I did when I was being paid for it for 33 summers in uniform. "

" President Obama took to the conservative airwaves Thursday to charge that Republican leaders are engaged in a VAST RIGHT-WING CONSPIRACY to kill health care reform in order to repeat the 1994 mid-term takeover of Congress, which followed the defeat of President Clinton's reform plan.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/aug/20/obama-gop-conspiracy-out-kill-health-reform/

Right-wing conspiracy?

You dont think it might be that after eight months in control that the people are realizing what his and his minions agenda really is and they dont like it?

How about that he really is in over his head?

Hum- from ABC News and I quote:

The biggest problem for President Obama in today's ABC News/Washington Post poll is this: only 49 percent of Americans are confident that he'll "make the right decisions for the country's future" -- down from 60 percent in April.

But they're screaming "listen to us" and "slow down." And they're worried he's getting in over his head.

Blaming the GOP for blocking health care will make Democrats feel better. But it may turn off Independents who are already abandoning Obama (17 point drops in handling health care and overall job approval

http://blogs.abcnews.com/george/2009/08/obama-needs-confidence-boost.html

And opposition just keeps on arising (from ABC Washington Post Poll):

Fewer than half of Americans, 45 percent, support reform as it's been explained to date, while 50 percent are opposed with many more "strongly" opposed than strongly in favor, 40 percent vs. 27 percent. Supports at just 36 percent among independents, the crucial political center.
------------------
Sure Mr. Obama it is just a vast right-wing conspiracy. "

" Too many corporate-paid Democrats and corporate news media pundits in this debate do not, like the Republicans, want health care reform. They want its APPEARANCE. That will be worse than nothing, because it will defuse and confuse the drive for real reform of a collapsing system. "

" Cognitus wrote on Aug 21, 2009 11:32 AM:
" "thanks my friend, that was a great read. keep up the superb posts. "

Thank you father bob. I won't be on a lot for the next 5 weeks. I'm going to Colorado where I work, spring and fall, for one of the federal land-management agencies, volunteer, but work regular 40 hour week -- just as I did when I was being paid for it for 33 summers in uniform. """""


where in CO.? "

" Cognitus,

I just went through end of life with my father. Fully cognizant until the end. He had palliative care doctor who was great. My dad participated in every decision. He was just shy of 77. My mother-in-law on the other hand is in her 90's and going strong. Just moved her to assisted living last year and she is doing great.

No one I have is against end-of-life counseling. What they are against is the government saying that after whatever age they decide you MUST have end-of-life counseling every 5 years.

The provisions in HR 3200 are for a panel of 5, I think it was, to help you make decisions. Sorry, but I want my physicians and family to assist with that part of my process, not some anonymous panel that doesn't know me from you.

I think that's pretty reasonable, don't you? "

" All the Way:"The provisions in HR 3200 are for a panel of 5, I think it was, to help you make decisions."

I note you say "I think".

If it were REQUIRED, I would indeed oppose it. [You may have read my earlier post that I happened to be with my son & dtr, which doesn't happen often since they live 2000 miles apart, and brought up the subject. I confirmed what I had said in my living will and power of attorney. But we had a few jokes. I said since I'm a non-believer they could have a religious service if they wanted to but to not get too deep into the Bible. They roared when I said, "Don't put 'In the Arms of Jesus' on my stone".I've signed as an organ donor (have you?).]

And I don't know why, if one requests consultation, 5 persons would be needed.

There are too many mis-representations, many on purpose, and I understand your concerns but I hope you are reading from the bill itself rather than listening to those who are determined to tell any lie, if necessary, to kill a health care.

It may be that a panel might be formed to determine certain general policies, but I cannot see a reason for a panel of 5 to be required for an individual case.

I haven't looked at the bill; I'm too busy with other things, packing for going to my fall job in the Rockies.
But if you can give me a page or section number reference so I can find it quickly, I'll try to read it before I leave town. "

" "Oh my, it's just the two us here and that darned old clock and you're but a pure yellow dog democrat socialist." "Oh yeah, well you're a right wing thieving fascist and I don't even want to talk to you." The clock does what clocks do, tick tock, tick tock. "

" It can be found in PDF format at docs.house.gov/edlabor/AAHCA-BillText-071409.pdf "

" In all other developed countries, health care is a basic right. How do people who don't want all Americans to have decent health care sleep at night? "

" Cognitus,
Enjoy your trip/fall job.

When I said "I think" it was in reference to the number on the panel, not about the panel. The panel itself was mandatory every five years, I don't recall starting age. I'll look trough it again so I can get you a page/section number. "

" Sen. Joseph Lieberman says those Americans who have no health insurance can wait after the recession before anything is done to help them.
With his well-fed posterior parked on one of the best taxpayer-paid health care plans in the world, he sees no problem at all. "

" Without health care reform, health insurance premiums could almost double by 2020, according to a report by the Commonwealth Fund, a 90-year-old non-profit health care charity.
According to "Paying the Price: How Health Insurance Premiums Are Eating Up Middle-Class Incomes," employer-sponsored family plans will rise from an average cost of $12,298 in 2008 to $23,842 in 2020 (the same coverage would have cost close to $9,200 in 2003) if health-care costs continue to rise at the current rate.
But by all means, Republicans, continue to lie about "death panels" and bleat about "socialism." You can lie and bleat your way right into bankruptcy and painful, lingering illness. "

" It is NOT a lie to use the term "death panels". Obama is the one lying, and so are his inane lickspittles, as evidenced by his apologists on this forum. When third parties are calling the shots about one's health care, and when those same third parties have the power to deny treatment they deem too expensive, then that is indeed a death panel. Regardless of what the leftist liars say, they ARE death panels. You can quibble over the semantics, but people have awakened to the truth about this evil power-grab. This health care bill isn't about helping anyone. It is about control. "

" After 8 years of prevarications by the Democrats lambasting GW Bush over his policies, and now lefties cry "dis-information"....that's a hoot! "

" I see a whole lot of Braying going on,from the usual dominating blog jacks.
I see one person who even admits to reading this monsterous house bill.
I have been doing the same as jim69 says he is.
I see NO way ANY private Health care program care meet these qualifications. When you are referred to these section and that section and find out, to be determined!!
Try reading before braying.
There will be NO choice! Then when it fails,there will not be any choice because the private insurance will be gone. Think about it.
Very Sincerely! Its your life your childrens life and all your dear parents life. "

" The Question wrote on Aug 23, 2009 12:07 PM:
" Sen. Joseph Lieberman says those Americans who have no health insurance can wait after the recession before anything is done to help them.
With his well-fed posterior parked on one of the best taxpayer-paid health care plans in the world, he sees no problem at all. """""


out of touch with reality, TQ. another politician bought and paid for. "

" The Republican party has mastered the art of confusing and confounding.
If they're so great why do they need Rush, O'Riely, Hanity, Fox News, Dave Ramsey, Ann Coulter, etc? "

" Okay people - here's my problem. No one - on either side - can tell me what the plan is for a government health care plan. So, how can I support something that no-one can effectively explain to me? Our legistlators admit to not having read the bills they pass, so they don't know what they are voting on. The concept of taking care of others is one I support, but I want details. I don't like it when an insurance company comes between me and my physician, but I won't like it any better when it is a government official - and they get to take much longer to make a decision! Here in Illinois, have we gotten a budget passed on time in years? How do we hold the government accountable? Sure we can vote them in or out, but so many people calling the shots now are simply "appointed" they aren't held accountable by us, the people. I want answers - honest, complete answers, and I'm not seeing them out there anywhere. "

" Beaches wrote on Aug 26, 2009 12:14 PM:
" Okay people - here's my problem. No one - on either side - can tell me what the plan is for a government health care plan. So, how can I support something that no-one can effectively explain to me?"""""



as i said on another thread....there is no model yet, nor will there be for awhile. the antagonists are trying to shoot down something that doesn't exist. the only thing that exists at this point are several concepts that different people have drafted.

this shows just how desperate the health care industry is at defeating ANYTHING that they can't totally control. the 1.4 million per day they spend on shooting down a ghost could well be spent on providing care to those who need it.

but alas, they have to scare old people with "facts" about a nonexistent bogey man. "

" Well the usual brayers are still doing the braying,facts be damned.
Now what ever you would like to call this panel or committee.
Try going to the House Bill 3200,section 123 Health benefits Advisory committee
A..9 by the President
B...9 appointed by Comptroller General
C ...7 by the President
If you care to expend that much energy about something,which will effect you,your children,grandchildren. "

" FB remarks that the opposition is trying to shoot down something that does not exist. So by the same token, aren't you asking us to support something that doesn't exist? "