" To the JG/TC: When I first glanced at the banner headline on Tuesday's front page, I saw tabloid-style editorializing mixed with the news. It read: House OKs borrowing plan as budget Band-Aid. The phrase (as budget Band-Aid) appeared nowhere in the news story. None of the sources quoted in the story used that phrase, so Im wondering where those words came from.

The free press has the right, an obligation actually, to editorialize the inner workings of government; however, news belongs on the front page, and opinion belongs on the opinions page. The headline should have read: House OKs borrowing plan. Then the reader would not be required to separate the facts of the news from the opinion of the reporters.

To Chapin Rose and Dale Righter: As to the Republican idea to borrow more money, I vehemently disagree with any plan to borrow anything, especially now. Obviously, weve done enough of that already! Thats why were in this mess! Why is no one in Springfield recommending immediate cuts in spending? Anyone who receives a check from the State of Illinois should be subject to ACROSS-THE-BOARD reductions in payments until such time as were living within our means.

Apparently Springfield cant agree on how to identify and eliminate (or defer) unneeded spending programs. Obviously Patrick Quinn isnt a strong enough leader to force a consensus. A fair alternative is to cut ALL expenses by the same percentage until were spending less than we take in.

Chapin, Dale, are you listening? I dont know what you hear, but what I hear your constituents saying is: We dont want higher taxes and fees; in fact, we want lower taxes and fees! We dont want programs terminated or parks closed, and we dont want to burden our offspring with debt! So, how about some common sense, for once, coming from Springfield?

Heres the way I see this. The first Representative or Senator who LOUDLY proclaims a common sense solution to a rather simple budgeting problem will be a serious contender in our next gubernatorial race. Which one of you will finally take the reins on this issue? Will it be Governor Rose and Lieutenant Governor Righter or will it be Governor Righter and Lieutenant Governor Rose? "

" In my reading of this letter by Chapin Rose, he actually seems to confirm that the bill did, in fact, "borrow from the pension system." It didn't permanently take from the system but it did BORROW, as the news story indicated. "

" But they took money they have, that was allocated to pension obligations, and will use that for other pending bills. The difference in the pension contribution, is going to come from money they have yet to get.

Stealing from peter to pay paul, yet again. But they are choosing to not technically call it borrowing. Its a more complex procedure, which evidently warrented this detailed correction.

One more thing failed is going to this trouble, and not explaining where said monies to replace the afore mentioned reduced full pension payment, that wasn't borrowed money, is going to materialize from.

Its past time fantasy creative accounting, took a back seat to emerging reality. Spending has outpaced population increases, which census records show to be near 10%. percentage taxes depend on growth, to see reasonable gains.

TIF was sequestering more than a billion dollars a year, a few years ago. Half of which was just in the chicago area. All that money is being kept from entities that usually also get various levels of state funding, so taxpayer get soaked at least twice, to make up for these monies already.

Various aspects of government are similar to organized crime business practices than sound responsible reality based business models. TIF often ammounts to protectionism payments, and slush funds for questionable frivolity.

Paying part time workers, overtime, on top of their sallary, because they fail to perform their jobs on time, isn't consistent with the states labor laws.

What are the folks in Springfield, prepared to forego in compensation, to get their business back in the black? How many more gambling places and inclusions will it take?

Last years spending plan was irresponsible to call a budget. Rod and Emil are gone, but its pretty much the exact same story, except 2 billion short has since turned into 11.6 or so.

Blaming much of these issues on the economy, is still scape goating, only with a different target. Failure needs addressed responsibly, or find another line of work, off the taxpayers dime. "

" Tom's remarks are surprisingly sensible. "

" I have an idea. If we are going to borrow from pension funds, the next time lets borrow from the politicians pension funds. Since they have never been tapped before, they should be in good shape. What do you say Chapin and Dale? Sounds like a good idea doesn't it? I expect to see you vote in favor of it. "

" The best response to this letter could well have come from one of Chapin Rose's Republican colleagues, State Rep. Bill Mitchell of Forsyth, who voted against the bill. On page two of the June 30 JG-TC he was quoted as saying: "We (are) trying to borrow our way out of a problem. It doesn't make sense to me." "

" Tom's remarks are surprisingly sensible. "

Except for the last sentence, I would agree, TQ. lol! "

" I think we know where you stand on TIF, but could be wrong. Going to bat declaring a specific field blighted and contributing to flooding miles awa to the north east in Loxa, so a large area development group, can prop up an always precarious convention center with tax dollars, gives some perceived hints.

Nevermind memphis has a pyramid, that was supposed to be a convention center, and it's sat vacant for years since it was completed. Convention centers and malls all over the country, are precarious investments. Rose and Righter felt it was appropriate to go to bat for lesgislating specificly for coles centre. Schools and other entities being shorted, and other taxpayers who pay their full shares making up the differences, isn't as important as one group getting very preferencial treatment, to skirt the rules.

It still doesn't meet but for. But for was not intended to be, they own it and won't develop it, but for a 23 to 35 year prop up, and tax sequestering. Development all around that site, suggests it is even less qualified than it wasn't the first time they tried to sneak one by. "

" I can't understand this violent opposition to an increase in taxes.
You freely go everywhere, from the grocery store (where you pay as much now for a box of cereal as for a bushel of wheat), the tire store, the auto dealer.... and pay more than you would have 20 years ago (or maybe longer) when the tax rate was established.
I don't see anybody ranting about the cost of things you buy, so why think government services should cost no more than in 1980???
This might be a good year to do it for in absolute $$ you may pay less than last year because incomes are down (or haven't you had the courage to look at your brokerage account yet this year to see how many dividends you're not getting) or at the interest you're not getting from your CDs this year. "

" * obamulism: pay more, it is the american thing to do * signed sealed delivered i'm yours * "

" Tom: I don't think the state should borrow from the teacher's pension fund or other pension funds for that matter because those funds would be solvent if the state had kept their hands off them before. Pensions are not what is keeping the state broke. Perhaps if people did not depend on the state to do for them what they could and should do for themselves we wouldn't be in this mess. "

" Before we reduce the pay check of every state work , how about we go ahead and rise fees for the things that only a special group use. Make the camp grounds pay for them self, make the mass transit systems pay for them self, make the bike and hiking trails (400 thousand in Mattoon) pay for them self. Stop all state grants that do not help the poor, old, sick or the masses. Stop all state money now given to for profit hospitals ( over 2 mil last year to Carle). Set all state thermostats at 75 degrees and leave them. Any state person who gets a car for a perk losses it. Make all state contract work cost plus 5%. There are many more simple ideals to reduce spending. Would this be enough to balance the budget probably not but lets cut something. Before we cut pay checks and rise taxes. "

" Cognitus, all things being equal (as economists like to say), inflation increases the cost of goods and services without adding intrinsic value. For example, 50 years ago, a can of Campbell's soup cost nine or ten cents. Today, it's around a dollar. Same can of soup, just higher priced. Inflation.

Here's a little history on the Illinois income tax. When Ogilvie was governor in 1969, somehow, he managed to get a 2.5% income tax put into place. Since 1989, the tax rate has never been less than 3%. Now, just 20 years later, Quinn wants to double the original tax rate to 5%. That's a 100% increase in the tax rate since early 1989!

But here's the other side of that story. The taxable income base in Illinois (personal and corporate income) has more than doubled in that same time frame. So actually, we're talking about quadrupling the revenue from the state income tax, aren't we?

I can see the need to occasionally increase a flat-fee, such as the charge for vehicle registration. As the costs of the Secretary of State go up, fees for services will follow. For the same reason, I can see charging more for a fishing and hunting license if the Conservation Department expenses go up.

I cannot see the need to ever increase a tax rate! The expense of administering a state government should follow the private sector's demand for increased services and the private sector's ability to pay. For example, lets say the total taxable income in the state was $100. The tax would be $3. Then, lets say the total taxable income in the state grows to $200. The tax would then be $6. Same old rate, but double the tax revenue. Get it?

When the private sector economy is on the decline, as it certainly is today, the expense of administering a state government should also decline, and taxes should decline. This is a no brainer. "

" The Sarah Palin soap opera continues. Now she's quitting on her commitment to the voters in Alaska. I swear that narcissistic woman will do whatever it takes to keep in the limelight. It seems that Sarah wants more attention, and will no doubt get it from her latest ploy for the spotlight.

If Sarah is planning on running for a higher office, quitting half way through on her commitment to the voters of Alaska seems an odd way to go about it. If she does, it will keep Joe the fake plumber in work for a while. Joe is also very popular with the loonies in the GOP, so she may want to consider him for the VP slot.

I also read where her daughters ex beau is planning on writing a tell all book on Sarah and her tribe. That should be interesting.

Sarah is the late night comics dream come true and I'm sure they're excited over this latest antic on her part.

Stay tuned, this can only get better. "

" Don't forget percentage taxes and use fees, have another way to increase revenue without being raised. Population has increased in this state, about 10 percent in just the last 10 years.

Spending on all levels has outpaced all of the built in means of holding rates and increasing revenue.

How is the pending insolvency of social security becoming closer to reality, any different a reality than Government pensions and benefits plans digging constantly deeper into increased revenue.

Various decisions have created programs and increased responsibilities and expenses and not followed through with funding sources, to keep paying those bills. State parks and poverty programs, get cut before increasing individual contributions to benefits packages.

Gambling has been increasingly tapped as go to funding slush funds, while they sought to lease the lottery, in its best year yet. The same lottery that was sold to voters almost 30 years ago, because it would fund education. That pie has been carved up so much, as have many others, and education is now in a worse situation at a higher per pupil price.

Reforms are needed, in every aspect of government business. Every nickle, needs to start being accounted for, and stretched as far as it can go. Middlemen dominate a lot of the payments, which directly increases cost, but cuts direct overhead held by the government. Special interests dictate policy more than representing taxpayers effectively and responsibly does.

Throwing a higher percentage of taxes, or higher fees, only perpetuates these issues until they get addressed. The constitution needs amended, so Balanced is the only condition a budget can be accepted or presented under. Any new expenses or programs, must have a viable long term plan for funding them.

Decades of complete and utter failures, should not be rewarded with additional money forced from individuals, so the troughs fill back up and more irresponsible spending can transpire indeffinately.

If a temporary increase is passed, it needs to also have 0 raises to any taxpayer funded position for its duration. Why is it a few can be guaranteed cost of living and then some, while the population gets saddled with covering that on top of the rest of bloated pension and benefit plans, overtime for failure to perform responsibly, and higher fees for anything and everything possible.

The trough is running dry. They refuse to look at the bloated costs of their entitlement programs for themselves, and simply leave vulnerable citizens to shoulder the losses. "

" * obamulism: knock women every chance you get * they rule the roost and they will bring all the voters to their senses * wait a minute, scratch that, my teleprompter is on the blitz * "

" "Unfortunately, the article missed this critical point and readers would not realize that..."
-------------------

Newspaper articles seem to miss the "critical point" an aweful lot don't they?

Or maybe they miss the point because these "points" have to get through the filter of the liberal newspaper reporter writing the article?

Oh...no... that can't be..they are professionals (LOL)...

SO CHAPIN....

Why not just host a website, with blogging capability, explaining the implications of the legislation being presented? Blogging is "lower-tech" than twitter, myspace, and facebook allowing the less tech-savvy to be heard... "

" Remember the massive, and horribly overpriced sports complex that Sarah Palin pushed through in Wasilla? Well, it seems that the sports complex contractors and architect have strong links and ties to Palin. Spenard Building Supplies was one, and wouldnt you know, they also supplied the materials for the Palins home. Sure, a small connection, but get thisSpenard also was the supplier for Ted Stevens cabin. This one building supply company is involved with Palin, Stevens, the Wasilla sports complex, and is a financial contributor to Palin. Keep in mind that the sports complex was being constructed at the very same time as the Palins home.
The Village Voice-

Oh my, the plot thickens... "

" Hey Neo, it looks like Stanley stole your word. Of course we know that you and Stanley are different posters. winky winky... "

" Apparently running a state requires more courage and smarts than gunning down helpless animals from a helicopter, Harry. Who knew? "

" Apparently running a state requires more courage and smarts than gunning down helpless animals from a helicopter, Harry. Who knew? "

It looks like Sarah jumped ship before things got any worse, TQ.

If Palin is to run for the top job, she had better toughen up. Talking points, cutesy sayings and the like will not cut it. As you know they kept her away from the press (for good reason too), well with the exception of Fox news of course. Sarah does have a large fan base, especially among the undereducated types, so perhaps a talk show would be a good venue for her. I suspect that the penny pinching Murdoch wouldn't offer her enough money to be a regular on his pathetically biased network either. I still think my idea of her co hosting the Springer show would be an excellent venue for her. Her family would even fit right in with type of guests Springer gets. "

" As a friend of mine observed, pit bulls usually don't whine and run away with their tails between their legs, do they? "

" The purported "Party of Personal Responsibility" spends an awful lot of time not accepting ANY responsibility for its own failures. It is the news media's fault Palin quit. It's Obama's fault Sanford cheated on his wife. It's the news media's fault Bush is an idiot. Whine, whine, whine. "

" Oh my, the plot thickens... "

Yes, it does, Harry; in your mind only. LOL. Why is it that you can't take someone at their word? Seems like you're always "plotting" to misconstrue someones words or actions.

My assessment of Palin is that she is a threat to the Democrat and Republican parties. The personal attacks will continue, of course, but at least shell be free now to build up her own platform of conservative American values and present them to the American voter. Americans are already fed up with Oboys policies and both parties same ol-same ol. In case you havent noticed, America is financially bankrupt but were not bankrupt of fresh ideas!

This is a great time for a relative newcomer (a Washington outsider) to form a viable third party with new ideas. For example, if, instead of Bushs stimulus package and Oboys takeover of corporate America, we had ended taxing of business and commerce, wed already be on the road to recovery. "

" Holy cow! This is from Fox news and doesn't bode well for Palin:

In the midst of a segment about the Alaska Governor's battle against "liberal" attacks, Liz Trotta went off-message.

Frankly, "the woman is inarticulate, undereducated," Trotta said, arguing that for once liberal criticism was "well-deserved."

"I think all the liberal stylists ... really have a case. She just begs for adjectives like flaky and wacky." When pressed, she added, "We're talking about somebody who, right from the get-go, has been a flashy person who gets into a lot of trouble and really has no credentials for any job." "

" "My assessment of Palin is that she is a threat to the Democrat and Republican parties."
---
Yes, she's a threat to them both because she's a threat to the nation. She's a self-pitying, ignorant, greedy, ranting, dishonest, motor-mouth, narcissist loon, seemingly worse even than Bush, if such a thing is possible. "

" Remember, Sarah Palin is a self-proclaimed "patriot" who thinks the founding fathers wrote the Pledge of Allegiance.
---
Question: Are you offended by the phrase "Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance? Why or why not?
Palin: Not on your life. If it was good enough for the founding fathers, its good enough for me and I'll fight in defense of our Pledge of Allegiance.
---
The pledge, of course, was not written until 1892 and the words "under God" were not added until the 1950s, in a fit of rabid McCarthyism.
Palin, who cannot even name a newspaper or magazine she reads when pitched a T-ball question, is a thundering ignoramus. "

" Fred Barnes, the world's most shameless GOP cheerleader, had this to say about the abdication of the Tundra Queen:
"Forget about Sarah Palin as the Republican presidential candidate in 2012 and probably ever. She may have no interest in seeking the GOP nomination. But if she does, her chances of winning the nomination have been minimized by her decision to resign as governor of Alaska." "

" Yes, it does, Harry; in your mind only. LOL. Why is it that you can't take someone at their word? Seems like you're always "plotting" to misconstrue someones words or actions.


Now come on Tom, I don't just make this stuff up. Your post seems to infer a like of Palin. I never would have thought.

And hey, you heard it here first, I'm going to bet that there is a big scandal brewing up in Alaska and Palin will be exposed for being just another politician. Wanna bet?

PS, get that spell check turned back on. lol! "

" Far from being the tenacious, populist "fighter" that Fox News described in its lying, fawning PR for her, Sarah Palin has quit virtually everything she's ever done. She quit five colleges. She quit her TV job. She and the First Dude quit their snow machine dealership in Big Lake. She quit as chair of the Alaska Oil & Gas Conservation Commission. Now she has quit the state governorship in mid-term, and turned her back on the voters who were foolish enough to support her.
But the real question is, out of 300 million people, why does the Republican Party offer us the stunning insult of someone like this aggressively ignorant, vapidly arrogant, nonsense-babbling, dishonest, greedy, self-worshipping beauty queen as a presidential contender? What on Earth is WRONG HERE? "

" The Question wrote on Jul 6, 2009 2:38 PM:
" Fred Barnes, the world's most shameless GOP cheerleader, had this to say about the abdication of the Tundra Queen:
"Forget about Sarah Palin as the Republican presidential candidate in 2012 and probably ever. She may have no interest in seeking the GOP nomination. But if she does, her chances of winning the nomination have been minimized by her decision to resign as governor of Alaska." """""


well, as per usual, i get about 1 in 10 posts through. seems as though the dear moderators at the JG-TC like to protect their conservative buddies. i guess that's their way of muffling me. about the best i can hope for is a one-liner here and there. "

" As a friend of mine said, If Fox News is attacking you, that means you are either a successful Democrat or a VERY unsuccessful Republican. "

" Remember, Sarah Palin is a self-proclaimed "patriot" who thinks the founding fathers wrote the Pledge of Allegiance.

And even worse she thought Africa was a country. "

" OBAMULISM - Using the tenets of Marxist Saul Alinsky's Rules for Radicalsm to attack Sarah Palin.

From Alinsky's RULE 12, direct personalized criticisms and ridicule an opponents works. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. It is cruel, but very effective.

With true GROUPTHINK decorum, Barack Obama was influenced by the teachings of Saul Alinsky and his early career as a community organizer on the far South Side of Chicago according to Wikipedia's listing for Saul Alinsky. "

" "I am proud to see that my father's model for organizing is being applied successfully beyond local community organizing to affect the Democratic campaign in 2008. It is a fine tribute to Saul Alinsky as we approach his 100th birthday."
-- Letter from L. DAVID ALINSKY, son Neo-Marxist Saul Alinsky

All HAIL MAGNIFICENT MESSIAH OBAMA!
All HAIL THE OBAMA and his MARXIST ALLIES ORTEGA, CASTRO, and CHAVEZ!
VICTORY HAIL OBAMA!
VICTORY HAIL OBAMA!

VICTORY HAIL = Se*g H*il in GERMAN (don't want to get censored!) "

" Well, actually, Harry, you (and fatherless bob and the question) do make some of this stuff up. Maybe thats why the monitor tosses some of bobs stuff.

If it turns out that Sarah Palin resigned because of an impending scandal, Ill eat your hat. Of course, LOL, youd have to introduce yourself to me first. By the way, Harry, what did I misspell? And please, dont charge those missing quotation marks and apostrophes to me. Thats the JG/TC webmasters fault.

Another by-the-way, what did you think of my suggestion to end taxing of business and commerce in the US of A? Or would answering that be too substantive for you, you know, compared to blasting Palin? What I cant figure out is, if Palin is so politically inept, why do you waste so much time trying to do her in? "

" Sarah Palin thought the founders wrote the Pledge of Allegiance. She didn't know the countries in NAFTA. She didn't know Africa was a continent. She quit college five times. Even when asked the simplest of softball questions, she couldn't name a newspaper or magazine she read. When she speaks off the cuff, she babbles errant, incoherent nonsense.
The question is why she was ever given a moment's credibility by anyone.
And the answer is that at least a quarter of the country will vote for any demagogue who says "Jesus" every 10 minutes. Add that to plastic Barbie doll looks, and you've got the formula for Sarah Palin's appeal, such as it is. "

" Well, actually, Harry, you (and fatherless bob and the question) do make some of this stuff up.


Oh really? If that the case, I would suggest that you call us out on anything we post that's not true. If what you say is true, it shouldn't be too hard for you to prove that claim. You're not agreeing with our comments does not mean we're simply making it up.

As far as your taxation query, of course I don't agree with it. Although I have to tell you that when you start going into your anti taxation rants, I usually don't bother to read anything more on that particular post. We get the idea, you resent paying any type of taxes. Knowing your disdain for goverment programs, I'll bet you even send that SS check back every month too. LOL

Now for the spell check deal, for your theory to be true the monitor would have to re-key everything. That doesn't happen and you know it. The posts are put on as they are keyed and are not redacted. I assume you read the printed version in the paper. What's put in the paper are the quotes selected and are printed with warts and all. I will concede that spell check doesn't catch all errors. I'll admit to making a lot of errors myself, and I have noticed that on more than one occasion that my misspelled words don't get corrected by using spellcheck. But please, don't try to pass your errors off on the monitor.

You seem to be taking the Palin comments a bit personal, but the constant barrage of insults directed toward Obama don't seem to phase you. I suspect your indignation runs along party lines.

As far as blasting Palin, I do it because I like to point out what a phony she is. She's nothing more than a scheming self centered politician out for what she can get for herself. Just look at the details of the ethics charge lodged against her yesterday. I put her in the same class as our last governor. Like your idol Coulter, she will no doubt make a fortune with speeches. There are a lot of rubes out there who will gladly eat up everything she says, and she'll laugh all the way to the bank.

And how about that book deal with the radical right wing extremist, Murdoch?
I believe I read where he gave her a 11 million dollar advance. Perhaps she thought, being an elected official, she would have to cave in like Gingrich did when Murdoch tried to buy him off with a 14 million dollar advance. Not being in office, Sarah can stick that check in the bank.

In closing let me just say, and it pains me to do so, Palin makes George Bush look like Einstein. LOL! "

" Sarah Palin insists that she's a fighter, not a quitter. While she's quitting, of course.
Funny that none of the right wingers are actually trying to defend their Quitter Queen's actions, isn't it? "

" Next thing you know she will be featured in playboy mag. "

" Ah, Harry, sometimes you're a real case - almost not worth bothering with. I assume youre just wanting to stir things up, so Ill take the bait. LOL.

The spell check thing. I'm not a software expert by any means, but I am more than proficient at the grammar thing. If the same thing never happens to you on this site, then I suspect that one of my internal programs is incompatible with whatever programs the JG/TC is using. When I tell you that the quotation marks and apostrophes are (sometimes) dropped during the transmission process, you can believe it. I know how to spell, for example, "you're" or "we're". Not to worry. Expand your horizons, Harry. You seem to have a problem accepting someone's thinking on an issue if it doesn't align exactly with your own. This world consists of more than two dimensions; you know, yours and everyone else's.

As to the taxes thing. Please don't do the liberal thing and try to hang a label on me that doesn't fit. Let's get this straight, Harry, I do NOT resent paying all types of taxes, just the ones that are not necessary and especially the ones that are hidden. Now, I know I'm about to lose your attention because I mentioned taxes, but answer this question before you turn off your mind: If commerce and industry pay taxes, do you think they add the cost of those taxes into the products you buy from them? The problem with that system is that when you buy those products and services, you don't even know how much you're paying in taxes. Right? Hello? Are you still here? Are you grasping the reality that the ONLY people in the world who pay taxes are the end consumers?

And, no, I don't send my SS checks back. After all those years of paying Social Security (15.3% of every dime I earned, because Im self-employed!), I'm not about to surrender it.

You're right, I do take the barbs thrown at Palin personally. That's because I agree with her on every political and moral issue she has ever raised. The reason I'm not offended at the criticisms of Oboy is because I cannot think of one political or moral issue he has raised that I agree with. Pretty simple, isn't it? "

" kamfong wrote on Jul 7, 2009 4:28 PM:

" Next thing you know she will be featured in playboy mag. "

Mre likely the one Larry Flint puts out, kam. "

" Tom Andres wrote on Jul 7, 2009 4:40 PM:

" Ah, Harry, sometimes you're a real case - almost not worth bothering with.



You're right, I do take the barbs thrown at Palin personally. That's because I agree with her on every political and moral issue she has ever raised.

If that's the best you got, don't bother, Tom.

PS, how in the world do you know what she stands for? Surely you've seen her non answers at questions from the media. Oh I forgot all you saw were the soft balls tossed her way from Fox's Hannity.

Did you catch the one today about the White House Department of Law?

And you added:

Expand your horizons, Harry. You seem to have a problem accepting someone's thinking on an issue if it doesn't align exactly with your own.


I suppose I could say the same thing to you, after all you're the on who admitted that you get all your news form one source: Fox. Perhaps you need to expand your horizons.

Lastly, you surely don't think anyone seriously buys that explanation about how your messages get changed, but it does sound better than trying to blame it on the monitor. That was pretty lame, even for you. Thanks for the laugh with that one. "

" We need a good letter to the editor from one of the regular elderly curmudgeons (JP, EB or TA) to keep things interesting. "

" Ah, Harry, although you are rather narrow minded, I'll keep trying. By the way, the apostrophe was in place on the "I'll". Let's see if it carries over through the data transmission. If you're so distrusting of me, perhaps you should contact the webmaster on the JG/TC to confirm that I'm correct on this little bit of trivia.

Yes, I get all my news from FOX. That's because I've been around long enough to know not to trust anyone else for fair and balanced news. I'm not a 100% fan of FOX on all issues, like their ridiculous ratings pursuit on the MJ circus, but overall, they're the most accurate and balanced news source there is.

If there is a downfall happening in America right now, it's not just the leftist politicians who caused it. The main culprit is the liberal slanted news sources. For example, for a year and a half, we heard nothing but doom and gloom on our economy; and what do you know, it finally tanked. Thanks NBC, ABC, CBS, MSNBC, PBS, CNN. And now that Oboy is in, we hear nothing but lies the other way around from those same liberal news banks. 40 years ago, when it was Pravda guilty of the same thing, Americans called it communist propaganda. Of course, that was a different America, wasn't it? Now we're the land of Obamites. Praise be Obama. "

" There is various manipulations of text, most notably double spacing after periods.

Better that, than being censored, I think most would agree. "

" The Quitter Queen reigns, and Tommy bows to his true ruler. But just remember -- she's NOT a quitter, and she'll sue you if you say she is. Or sic the Department of Law on you! "

" Neo said: "From Alinsky's RULE 12, direct personalized criticisms and ridicule an opponents works. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. It is cruel, but very effective."

Now I know where Carl Rove got his tactics from. I can't believe you actually believe that the Dems are the only party to do this...do you? "

" Tom Andres wrote on Jul 6, 2009 10:25 PM:
" Well, actually, Harry, you (and fatherless bob and the question) do make some of this stuff up. Maybe thats why the monitor tosses some of bobs stuff."""""


actually i adhere to the guidelines below just as much as you do tommie......guess you just have friends in all the right places.

as i type, i doubt this gets posted. "

" Yes, I get all my news from FOX. That's because I've been around long enough to know not to trust anyone else for fair and balanced news.


TQ & fb, that sort of says it all, don't you think?

PS, please excuse any typos. If you see any, it's the monitors fault. lol! "

" "From Alinsky's RULE 12, direct personalized criticisms and ridicule an opponents works. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. It is cruel, but very effective."



Obamas biggest critic posted the above. I wonder if he gets the irony of the quote? "

" " Tom Andres wrote on Jul 6, 2009 10:25 PM:
" Well, actually, Harry, you (and fatherless bob and the question)"""""



poor Tommie just can't quite ever let go of his bigotry.....even when he's trying to be huorous. "

" Tom Andres wrote on Jul 7, 2009 10:01 PM:
"Yes, I get all my news from FOX. That's because I've been around long enough to know not to trust anyone else for fair and balanced news."""""

REALLY????

.....seems like your "fair and balanced" anchorman got caught doing a little "creative reporting" :

Whenever President Barack Obama goes abroad, cameras follow him, and record the things he says to people. Just as often, it seems, Fox's Sean Hannity takes the recordings made by those cameras and starts splicing and resplicing up a storm, in order to make it seem that Obama said a bunch of things that he didn't say. And then, armed with his cut-up, bowdlerized junk, Hannity plays his audience for fools.

(continued) "

" The right wingers always do EXACTLY what they accuse their enemies of doing, Harry.
And you're right about Tommy and his see-no-good, hear-no-good, do-no-good heroes at Fox News,
As Danny Schechter observed, the mistake that many make is to confuse the trappings of symbolic power with the exercise of real power. Truth be told, real power is exercised mostly by unchecked private interests, lobbyists and the corporate media. They have the power to obstruct policies, stir up controversies and orchestrate pressure to kill measures they don't like. They are a well-funded minority and work skillfully in the shadows and through highly paid PR practitioners.
They also work, and effectively, through Fox News. It is the instrument of the most brazen and dangerous of them. Fox News exists for that reason -- and not, as some seem to think, to keep the Palin-besotted residents of trailer parks and the captive audiences in doctor's offices entertained. "

" An speaking of Fixed news, The Guardian reported:

Rupert Murdoch's News Group Newspapers has paid out more than 1m to settle legal cases that threatened to reveal evidence of his journalists' repeated involvement in the use of criminal methods to get stories.

The payments secured secrecy over out-of-court settlements in three cases that threatened to expose evidence of Murdoch journalists using private investigators who illegally hacked into the mobile phone messages of numerous public figures and to gain unlawful access to confidential personal data including tax records, social security files, bank statements and itemised phone bills. Cabinet ministers, MPs, actors and sports stars were all targets of the private investigators.


Sounds like good journalistic policies to me. LOL!

And don't forget the words of Tom Andres, "Thank God for Fox news". "

" So the CIA director has now admitted in testimony that the CIA lied to Congress just as Nancy Pelosi said when the right wingers here were huffing and puffing that HOW DARE SHE suggest that the professional liars at the CIA would lie to Congress and the American public. "

" Well Chapin Rose, as your future rival in the bid for State Representative in 2012, I'm here to tell you that you are either wrong or manipulating the details. My grandfather has been a state employee at fox ridge for over 20 years, and I am here to tell you that your are wrong. He has gotten notices for Springfield tell him about the re-allocation of his pension funds. "

" " So the CIA director has now admitted in testimony that the CIA lied to Congress just as Nancy Pelosi said when the right wingers here were huffing and puffing that HOW DARE SHE suggest that the professional liars at the CIA would lie to Congress and the American public. "



Now that the cat is out of the bag, I'm sure Fox news will apologise to Pelosi for all their negative coverage (calling her a liar) on this issue. "

" Due to this getting archived, I'm re posting it.


The Guardian reported:

Rupert Murdoch's News Group Newspapers has paid out more than 1m to settle legal cases that threatened to reveal evidence of his journalists' repeated involvement in the use of criminal methods to get stories.

The payments secured secrecy over out-of-court settlements in three cases that threatened to expose evidence of Murdoch journalists using private investigators who illegally hacked into the mobile phone messages of numerous public figures and to gain unlawful access to confidential personal data including tax records, social security files, bank statements and itemised phone bills. Cabinet ministers, MPs, actors and sports stars were all targets of the private investigators.

Any thoughts, Tom? "

" Wonder if someone called to get their own letter to the editor pulled? Someone else must need rural kings version of gold bond. "