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Friday, June 19, 2009 9:48 PM CDT
OUR VIEW: Charleston library's quandary raises questions



Let’s all put our heads together and try to understand this.

The Charleston Carnegie Public Library just finished a substantial expansion and renovations that were paid for, in part, by a $7-million bond issue approved by voters. That bond issue is being paid off via property tax revenue. Now, just this week, the library cut staff and reduced its business hours in order to cut costs.

Those two statements seem to go together about as well as oil and water.

Three full-time and five part-time staffers were laid off, according to library Director Sheryl Snyder, and she cited various reasons for the cost-cutting moves. One is the need to pay off the cost of expanding and renovating the library building — the changes supported by the above-mentioned 7 million bucks. Other reasons noted by Snyder are the lack of interest revenue coming in on library investments due to the poor economy; rising utility costs; and the need for the library to pay the insurance deductible for repairing its wind-damaged roof.

OK — so do you get it yet?

No, we don’t either.

It is difficult for the average person to comprehend an entity undertaking millions of dollars worth of renovations and then, seemingly suddenly, being forced to cut staff due to a lack of funds. The issue leaves us with more questions than answers.

Did no one planning this library expansion consider future utility costs? Was there no looking ahead to beyond the bond issue funds to support the newly beefed-up facility? Could there have been money saved during the renovations to avoid these staff cuts?

We don’t have the answers, but leaders at the library should have had them before staff cuts and hour trims were needed. It’s disappointing to think that Charleston could be left with a beautiful facility that cannot be paid for, or that the library will end up underutilized because there isn’t enough money to keep the doors open.

We don’t understand it, and this turn of events doesn’t sit well. Try to mix oil and water all you want to, but they will never blend. All you’ll be left with is a mess.

We fear that’s some of what the Charleston library is encountering. But who will clean up in the aftermath?

— JG/T-C Editorial Board


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bigreader09 wrote on Jun 20, 2009 3:04 PM:

" To the Editorial Board:
I don't understand this scenario either! I was in the library this past week and things were tense. The remaining staff members were trying to cope as best they could. But one wonders: why propose and build a new addition to the library when it cannot be staffed sufficiently? Was there not a line item in the budget for this contingency?
Another point: Couldn't the library staff adjust the thermostats to save money? Just a couple degrees can save quite a bit, I have read.
I hope this can all be resolved quickly. The library is a very important center of our community, to citizens of every age group. "

Mike P wrote on Jun 20, 2009 5:02 PM:

" Both library referendums, left many like questions unanswered. This paper cheerleaded the proposals, but failed to bother its self, with filling in the big blanks.

This and many other issues haven't suddenly popped up overnight. Will this paper begin to take its responsibility to the people more seriously, or will it keep on with what has been business as usal for it, which allows BAU for other groups to keep going mostly under the radar, until suddenly none of what has been transcribed through the paper adds up.

This paper has been asleep at the wheel, in covering this areas issues. Opining questions is one thing, getting folks in charge of this stuff, questioned properly and on the record, with satisfactory answers, or no comment if that is their reply, would go a long way to altering the misguided courses in many wrong directions, which taxpayers get to fund, but not be accurately informed of the truth, reality, and the context the two coexist in. "

vakyin wrote on Jun 21, 2009 8:12 AM:

" I agree with MIke P, the paper didn't do its job. They want to blame people after the fact, without checking the facts. The expansion was going on during a boom time when the library was receiving additional yearly revenues to support annual increases in expenses...they don't have that now. Not to mention that energy costs have risen a little above average lately...certainly above projections at the time of the remodeling planning. The mantra of this message board to government is to cut. They cut, and they still get clobbered by clowns. This editorial must have been written by a trainee. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 21, 2009 8:27 AM:

" Both library referendums, left many like questions unanswered. This paper cheerleaded the proposals, but failed to bother its self, with filling in the big blanks.


Excellent observation, Mike P. "

Old Grumpy wrote on Jun 21, 2009 7:31 PM:

" There are many questions raised by this budget shortfall. The biggest one would be who did the financial planning on this project? They build an enormous opulent facility and then to forget to plan on utility and employee costs? Talk about poor management!
With management this inept look for more cut backs and be sure another referendum will be on the ballot next chance they have. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 22, 2009 7:09 AM:

" With management this inept look for more cut backs and be sure another referendum will be


You hit the nail on the head with that one, Grumpy. And where will the local editorial board stand when that referendum comes to pass? Based on their past, I think it's same to assume the will be cheerleading for it. "

Airy Dite wrote on Jun 22, 2009 7:21 AM:

" Mike P wrote "This paper has been asleep in covering this area's issues."

Right on. They don't have an investigative reporter or columnist. Probably afraid of potential lawsuits. If toes get stepped on, they're out the door with a "retirement" package - or is that a "severance" package?

According to WCIA news last week the issue of the homes at Lake Charleston is to come to a head this week. Will there be any reporting on this?

I'd like to know just what those residents think about the $3,000 offer made to them by the city. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Jun 22, 2009 7:59 AM:

" Yes I agree that this paper is a very poor excuse for true journalism.
But we should also give credit where credit is due. This was a very well written article by the JG/T-C Editorial Board. They have written a couple good ones lately.
JG/T-C Editorial Board you see how little we respect your reporting, "now" is the time to change that. Stop being the pe"e"ons you have been. Start making the cities answer the tough needed to know questions. Don't let them get by with the stuff they only want us to know. Start asking and demanding answers to questions. "

verita wrote on Jun 22, 2009 8:12 AM:

" It is a sad situation for the library, the larger question is exactly, who IS in charge of the budget? While expansion is typically a sign or prosperity and growth, which obviously the people supported, where did planning go wrong? Naturally at the beginning on the expansion, none could foresee an economic downturn of this magnitude but I cannot imagine that Ms Synder would be happy about having a larger building and then not having enough staff to man the building. What comments does the city council have regarding this or the board? "

LOST CONFIDENCE wrote on Jun 22, 2009 10:29 AM:

" I sat on the Charleston Area Chamber of Commerce board of directors when this proposal was rammed through. Since the board was packed with Rotarians (one of the leading donators to the library). The chamber endorsed the proposal, I therefor felt I could not publicly challenge the idea.

Bob McElwee, and Susan Snyder repeated over and over that the operations cost would not change. I and a few other business owners challenged this, but the acedemics and SBLHC folks bought it.

My spouse went the "town hall" meeting held at the library. There again the same rhetoric was delivered. THREE reporters from JG-TC were at the meeting. The next day it got ZERO ink. Why??? Several citizens slammed Snyder and McElwee on this issue. They couldn't answer the questions, stammered, and said they didn't have the requested information in front of them. Bill Lair wanted the library addition. No ink!

Yes we need infrustructure to atract new business. That is if our Chambers, Coles Together, or City Government's want any. The jury is still out on that one.

It's not the economy stupid- it's just common houshold economics. "

Rockin Rotty wrote on Jun 22, 2009 11:00 AM:

" Where's Waldo? "

Mike P wrote on Jun 22, 2009 12:06 PM:

" Both referendum's began motion foreward before it was even known there was a recession. Both had the same objective. Do what both towns have been failing to do, see some sustainable growth in the fully contributing tax base.

Neither would go it alone, unless their foot print of collections increased. Same foot print even with levy increase potential, was already no longer enough to be sustainable. Its likely their finances have been quietly marginal, for a long time. Lets not forget these issues largely begin with the city councils failing to do their basic jobs. They appoint the boards of both libraries, and hold their purse strings.

TIF is a big reason they saw their money begin to dry up, and not keep pace with expense increases. Being appointed by city councils, evidently has them and several boards who aren't, not able to openly discuss the true reasons of their limited funding issues. Libraries, School boards and Parks, are usually the outspoken opponents of TIF, and especially TIF over use and abuse. Here even the paper is ignoring the long known effects of tax sequestration. If some aren't paying their full shares to the pot, others get to pay more to make up that difference, and thanks to PTELL, the shifting differences at a time is limited. The libraries percentage is capped, yet they say nothing about why its really no longer enough.

Shortly if the square TIF expires, The money skimmed for Taj ma city hall facade building, would have been divided between the library and all the other tax bodies shorted for the life of the scheme. Divided between ones that don't gain anything from increased sales taxes, kickers, and shoppng tolls, and can't base large percentages of their budgets on such precarious funding sources. Not that the square TIF raised much sales tax, but it evidently socked the sequestered money back well enough to still be doing a lot of questionable speculation with it.

Many entities groups and newspapers around the state, aren't afraid to honestly discuss TIF, and its issues. Check this papers archives, for how it handled the convention center scheme being questioned, with a legitimate law suit.

Cheerlead or feign outrage one minute, then when aspects of ignored reality, begin to apper unannounced, they are simply baffled and move on with Business As Usual. Forget the library issue, look over here, this is outrageous. Next thing you know, its levy time, and every one but the library is max portions bigger again, and one or two, might get a scholding. Many will get a, but its only 20 more dollars for some ficticiously random assesed value. LLC got opined for raising tuition 15 dollars over 5 years. Their tax levy was just shy of 20%, just for this one. Priorities seem fleeting, for this paper. News and issues lands in their laps, and they are still baffled at what to do with it.

Seems like they aren't real sure what to do, when issues grow into a quandry and raise questions. Baffling....

Eventually a higher percentage of enough less of a base, might see some folks get it. Pull their heads out of the sand, and stop scratching on their doodle pads or dozing off at meetings.

Making the sequestered base bigger, is going to make this worse. Freeze TIF expansions, limit to more responsible spending.

How much money is involved in each aspect of the TIF issue? How much has gone to who, since day one? How much has each of the impacted taxbodies like libraries foregone? What are the actual borders of each district? Do they fit the Rules? "

john wrote on Jun 22, 2009 12:52 PM:

" I too was at the Town Hall meeting. Snyder and McElwee repeatedly said there were be no increase in operational costs. How does a building increase by 3x's its original size and have no added electrical, water, heating/cooling expense? And we were told that no additional staff would be needed. The paper never reported that.
We heard a lot about how Arcola's library was so nice and shouldn't Charleston's library be just as good?...but when someone asked if the library committee had applied for any government grants to pay for the expansion (like Arcola did) the answer was no.
I was sick when I left that meeting, it was obvious that those who wanted the library expansion planned on burdening the taxpayers with 100% of the bill while they did nothing to try and raise funds on their own.
Had the paper reported UNBIASEDLY the details of that meeting, I don't think the referendum would have passed. "

Old Grumpy wrote on Jun 22, 2009 4:40 PM:

" The Charleston and Mattoon Library Boards have a very fragile hold on reality. Far too many members have "served for years" and their only goal is to have their name carved into stone next to the front door of the Library! The "professional management staff" of both Libraries could use some basic education is living within their budget. Far too often when faced with budget shortfalls their first action is to try to expand their tax base. Not number crunching, not looking for ways to do more with less, but "Let's expand and get more money."

Somewhere on the shelves there must be a book on management they can learn from. Heaven knows the City Councils have never read them.

Mismanagement by the Councils, the Boards, and the senior management of the Libraries have resulted in far too many hard working, lower level, employees being laid off when the cause of this problem lies much higher.

If the Captain of the ship runs it aground do not fire the poor soul manning the oars! "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 22, 2009 5:22 PM:

" How much money is involved in each aspect of the TIF issue? How much has gone to who, since day one? How much has each of the impacted taxbodies like libraries foregone?


That would be too much like airing dirty laundry, Mike. Our paper doesn't do that. Protecting the status quo is the rule of the day.

Several years ago, back when they were trying to pass a bond issue in Mattoon to build new schools, the local Chamber of Commerce was manning a table at the mall passing out literature about why Mattoon needed new schools. I asked the person sitting at the table if she had any idea how much money the schools lost do to all the deferred tax programs that went on in Mattoon. All I got was a blank stare. I told her that she really needed to do her homework if she was going to be out rooting for the tax payers to have their taxes raised. I don't think she appreciated that. lol!

Often times in Mattoon deferred taxes are a bigger scam that the TIF funding program, which it seems usually only goes to well established local wheeler dealers.

If the paper really did it's job it would list those sort of things as well as who got TIF funding.

But as the local paper says shh....mum's the word. "

cd wrote on Jun 23, 2009 11:29 AM:

" What local paper? The JG/TC should actually be called the Decatur Herald Extension paper. With ownership in Decatur, they don't care about what happens here, and what we get is just to appease us. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 23, 2009 3:21 PM:

" Funny that there seems to very little mention of anything going on in Decatur in the weekly paper, for all the criticism about that issue.

Of course that doesn't hold true for the comical Sunday version, which is a joke. "

Mike P wrote on Jun 23, 2009 5:06 PM:

" The coverage provided by this paper, coud easily be outsourced to india with the tech support, and radiology readings. It could be done better, by folks who have no direct physical presence, and no issues with asking relavent questions. A grade school class, would often have more common sense and insight, than the ones gathering a few times a week, to put out an Our Jaded View, or the poorly reported issues, that often lead up to them.

This paper is owned by Lee Enterprises. It is now printed in decatur, and very likely soon will be shifting more assignment bases from there. Lee also owns papers listed in other links section on the left margin, besides many others. If you want more information on them, google them, don't just look at their site to see what they think of themselves.

Came across something that suggests this papers online version, gets in the ball park of 7500 hits a month. That means around 250 folks a day. That is a far cry from what they were claiming, last fall. If the outside reporting is correct, 250 users a day, must average hitting 100 pages a day, by the papers version. Since a comment, often results in 3 page visits, 1 to log in, on to comment, and 1 post submit, that drops to 33.3 pages. Most probably begin at the main page, and musical articles once inside, often require some browsing, to find one to keep tabs on the comments on them, also resulting in multiple hits, to get 1 page. Shifting popular topics to the archives, boosts their inflated unsubstanciated counter readings.

Creative accounting gets used in all sorts of ways.

Blame for coverage should go to Lee, then this papers publisher, then the editors, then the reporters, and finally the readers. We tolerated it quietly for long enough. We accepted (but we are a small paper, on low sallaries), and the resulting disinterested bystander coverage, perceived regurgitated here is what we want people informed the situation in hand outs, from boards and councils.

Until the readers demand better from this paper, we will get what we get.

Until the paper effectively does its job, getting all the boards and councils, hired and appointed tax dollar sallaried folks to responsibly do theirs, is the same, we get what we get, answer. "

middle of road wrote on Jun 23, 2009 5:16 PM:

" lol -sounds like several people casting stones here should apply for a job at the paper, Mike P being the first. Then it'd be perfect. I also can see much room for improvement in some of their reporting, but I've seen some bylines disappear so I assume worker cuts hit newspaper like many other industries in this economy. Doesn't take a mathmetician to add it up. "

unknownjoe wrote on Jun 24, 2009 9:42 AM:

" Harry, you are starting to sound like a conservative. Maybe hanging out at FOX News is starting to rub off. lol. But in agreement; did we really need another large empty building in charleston? Was a Cost Benefit Analysis done? God forbid that our public library be less than that of Arcola. We definately needed a Booth North branch. I say follow the money. Library construction and city hall refurbishment seemed to be underway at the same time. Could the money have been better spent on infrastructure updates to water and sewer services. The whole patch and pray policy of dealing with failing systems within the city is going to catch up with them one of these days. Unfortunately it will take someone getting hurt or killed in order for something to be done. "

Dottedline wrote on Jun 24, 2009 10:21 AM:

" It seems that many of the people posting comments to this article are more concerned with the newspaper's general coverage than with the specific library issues raised in the article. First, it should go without saying that newspapers, like any enterprise with employees and expenses, run on revenue. When was the last time any of you who post regularly on the online newspaper version actually paid one cent for anything pertaining to the newspaper? I, too, was very disappointed with the loss of a truly local paper when the paper was sold. While I think that Rob Stroud and others who write about Charleston matters for the paper do a good job, I, too, wish that there were more "in depth" coverage of local issues. Even so, when it comes to civic responsibility for oversight and holding public officials accountable for public/civic matters, that is not the newspaper's responsbility; that is the responsibility of citizens. It is a newspaper's job to report on issues and on civic matters, and to address issues editorially, as this article did. Some of the posters here said they attended a library meeting where the library plans were discussed and that is commendable. They also said the paper didn't do good reporting on the questions raised at that meeting. If those posters knew that things were amiss in the library's plans, then they could have pursued it further. What prevented anyone from directly contacting the newspaper's editors about this? Where were the LETTERS to the editor, beyond the online postings? Where were the citizens' voices at City Council meetings raising these questions? Civic responsibility takes energy and drive and courage because sometimes your fellow citizens won't like what you are saying. It takes a tough skin because a responsible citizen will often turn around to look for his fellow citizens backing him up and find no one there or worse, in Charleston, find those with a particular agenda closing ranks against other viewpoints. I love the library and am generally a supporter of all things library; however, this recent series of events concerning library funding and services raises many serious questions and concerns. I commend the newspaper for this editorial and for raising these questions. Now I await a companion guest editorial from the library officials in answer to these questions, and then the posts and letters to the editor and the citizens' voices at City Council meetings - about the library and about every other issue being decided with YOUR tax dollars in YOUR town! "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 24, 2009 1:25 PM:

" Harry, you are starting to sound like a conservative.

Ouch! Now come on joe. Just when I thought we were starting to get along. In all honesty, I doubt that there are very many people that are totally conservative or totally liberal. But you're right on some issues I do find myself taking the conservative view.

I think I may have to go through some sort of a purification process, if this keeps up. lol! "

Mike P wrote on Jun 24, 2009 4:04 PM:

" Had they responsibly questioned any issue, they have every right to write this kind of opine. They chose not to, and even though things didn't add up, the entire time they were cheerleading the expansion proposals on. Now that it has come home to roost rather openly, they now find they have some direct questions on the matter.

If they did their job, and got out in front of issues as they emerge, rather than jumping from band wagon to band wagon, as decisions actually produce negative impacts, much of these things, might be headed off. They choose not to raise relavent questions, until the dust has begun to settle, if they ever do.

They have yet to offer any other than support of TIF, and blatant abuses of the tool. There are many groups, studies, and cities, with relavent PRO/CON information, on TIF and Homerule in this state, that can be looked over by a simple Google search. Direct contact, followup, and subsequent information, is there to be had. They choose to regurgitate the PRO, ignore mentioning the con, and then are baffled, when a quandry presents its self.

TIF has impacted the viability of the libraries and many other things. Instead of addressing that issue, leaders, want to increase the burdon furter to the taxpayers, and gloss over the truth. Homerule will compound those and other issues further, in the absence of responsible leaders, and reporting. "

longtimegone wrote on Jun 25, 2009 7:37 AM:

" Trim the top of the tree not the bottom. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 25, 2009 11:18 AM:

" longtimegone wrote on Jun 25, 2009 7:37 AM:

" Trim the top of the tree not the bottom. "

Excellent idea, unfortunatetly it seldom works that way. "

JR wrote on Jun 25, 2009 11:50 AM:

" Wow, Harry, Joe, and I all have the same concerns and are in agreement with each other -- must be a sign of the apocalypse (smile).

Let's face it -- the library and city hall were big white elephants that got foisted off on the taxpayers. They were "good things" and "had to happen...now!" -- and how are they really contributing to the community (in ways that weren't already addressed by what was already there)? I realize that sometimes national and international news is important and worth discussing, but we've got issues closer to home (at home really) that deserve our attention. Maybe instead of screaming at each other over Tea Parties and Presidents all the time, we should take a few moments to think about what's happening in our own backyard -- we can do more to address/fix those problems...and we seem to actually be able to agree with each other over quite a lot of them.

By the way -- good issue raised there Joe; we have some rather pressing infrastructure problems that would have been money better and more productively spent in fixing. It isn't just the sewer system, the gas lines and streets aren't in great shape either. Fixing those I wouldn't mind paying taxes for -- new proposed softball practice fields and new library additions, not so much. "

Bernie wrote on Jun 25, 2009 2:12 PM:

" The numbers have been crunched. Uniting everyone into one public not-for-profit health coverage group under an "Improved Medicare for All" type system would save Coles County over $500,000/year (after year, after year) in private health insurance costs alone (which are now skyrocketing beyond control and belief). Plus everyone would have far more reliable and comprehensive coverage, with savings instead of costs increasing.

"Health care IS the economy, Stupid!" "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Jun 25, 2009 2:57 PM:

" LOST CONFIDENCE we understand you are a follower. But do not try and act like you objected or you would have. And in my opinion only a coward would have decided they could not speak up. We can only hope that you no longer are on the board, as by your own words you are a do as they say person. "

LOST CONFIDENCE wrote on Jun 25, 2009 4:09 PM:

" Rohn,
Sir, I did object I was one of two board members that voted against the endorsment. By the way only five members voted. Even though all members were present all the bankers and corporate folks obstained. I continued to campaign against the referendum in private settings, however since an entity that I was a member had endorsed the project my ethos would not allow me to express my opinion in a public forum. "A follower" I don't think so. Shortly after the endorsement of this LIE and waste of taxpayer dollars I left the board. I have also ceased to be a member, and will not re-join until the staff and leadership are competent. "

Mike P wrote on Jun 25, 2009 5:03 PM:

" One or two voices of reason, on any of the local boards, councils, and other deciding bodies, stands little chance of influencing the quagmire.

The city of Charleston, voted for the expansion. A city that had the higest drop in median income for 2007, whose leaders were baffled and left it at that, voted incumants in, and for potentially raising taxes further. Baffling

Groups opposed to homerule, need to get informed, and begin responsibly informing citizens. It is comming, and with the expansion passing in town, it seems it may have the votes, if they sell it like they did the library farces.

Opposing TIF abuse, overuse, and Homerule, is taking on the chamber of commerce, and many other groups at once. They have stacks of misinformation, diversionary talking points, and misleading creatively accounted statistics. If these things aren't headed off decisively, many more pitfalls, issues, and quandries, will lead to more head scratching, shopping tolls, tax hikes, fees and budget gaps to fill differently from taxpayers pockets.

Much of their presentation is spelled out verbatem, on various PRO sites. Begin to find the holes, look at the unbiased information sites, and cities in this state, that removed homerule and why.

This library issue is the harbinger, that enron, tyco, and worldcom should have been to the national economic leaders, years before many of the same failed policies led to the brink on a wider scale. "

Interested Observer wrote on Jun 26, 2009 1:09 AM:

" This city has borrowed from Peter to pay Paul for years, and most of its boards are loaded with dinosaurs who've been there for years and haven't had an original though since Christ was a corporal. As for TIF abuse, all I'll say is that it has resembled a huge slush fund for the favored few for years. A pox on this city's governing bodies! "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 26, 2009 10:47 AM:

" As for TIF abuse, all I'll say is that it has resembled a huge slush fund for the favored few for years...

Amen!

Several years ago, I overheard a Broadway business owner's wife say that she thought all the businesses in downtown Mattoon should have new fronts built. She went on to say that the people of Mattoon should have to pay for it because they owed that to them. I laughed at that, but I think she got the last laugh. "

JR wrote on Jun 26, 2009 11:48 AM:

" Well, I'm up for a pleasant round of protesting, and I'm also up for not voting in any encumbents, or striking or whatever -- thing of it is, I used to like living here because it was a relatively decent place, but Charleston-Mattoon have turned into stinkholes. I can either move, and take my chances (which would be difficult as we have put down roots) or I can fight to make things better. I'm willing to try the latter first -- who's with me? "

Interested Observer wrote on Jun 26, 2009 4:26 PM:

" I'm ready, JR! Like you, I *could* move, but I've put down roots here, as well. What I'd like to see is a.) a public announcement IN ADVANCE of what boards are going to be reappointed, b.) appointments made to the boards based upon superior qualifications, rather than how long the person has lived here or who their brother-in-law is, e.g. and c.) use TIF funds to attract NEW businesses or expand old ones, in terms of actual NEW JOBS created (TIF's intended purpose). It's time to tell business owner X that if he/she wants a new facade/awning/whatever, then pay for it out of their own money, like I do when my house needs a new paint job, windows or whatever. "

11235 wrote on Jun 26, 2009 4:36 PM:

" Glad to see someone other than me thinks that TIF is a con that diverts public funds to private business.

How we can either end it or at least curtail it? "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 26, 2009 6:08 PM:

" I would like to know how using TIF money remodeling Charleston's city hall will increase sales tax revenue? Will people travel to Charleston and spend money just to look at that hideous building? That was nothing more than a scam. "

Mike P wrote on Jun 26, 2009 11:24 PM:

" Do they add sales tax to the outrageous Water bills? "

Mike P wrote on Jun 27, 2009 12:31 AM:

" Couldn't remember the agency charged with TIF oversight. So I googled Illinois TIF oversight. It wasn't obvious from the first two pages, but there were quite a few articles heading in the same fed up direction. Including this one.

clawback.org/category/hidden-taxpayer-costs/

No spaces if it gets chopped. I dislike tiny Url.

The Two on Illinois are on chicago, but 50% of the states TIF's are in that area. Some of the information is deeply disturbing, and infuriating, so consider yourselves warned.

Seems like mothballing TIF, might fill many huge budget gaps, at the local and state levels.

Also note the city that has to cover millions in repayments, because TIF collections aren't keeping pace. If that isn't what already partly sapped a local general fund, it likely soon will.

If enough folks are on board opposed to TIF, get a group to get a speaker, that will honestly get into it. There are many older studies and information of the cons, that never get presented by local leaders.

A judge in the state, has set precident that tif is not a zero cost to taxpayers, and any one paying taxes that are affected by a TIF, can sue.

The convention center and charleston's square extension and creation of another one might be able to be headed off.

Get in contact with state officials on your issues and questions about the legitimacy of Taj ma city hall.

See if community recycling bins can be covered with TIF funds, if they get placed in them. It can be used for snow removal, daycare, job training and other services. Money getting shelled out ought to also be able to benefit the community, since they end up making up the differences either way.

For what charleston was paying per year, they could have bought their own bins, and made trips to the sorting center and recyclers 2 or 3 times a month, in a city truck and still come out ahead. Any return on the recyclables, could have been building up money for a community project, rather than paying someone to haul and additionally profit from the materials.

Also on the recycling note. There are markets for Glass, I found from another Google search. Glass recycling Illinois, was the one used I think. Its not gold, but not worthless. Landfills use it on purpose for required layers of their disposal process. One of the countries biggest Glass recyclers is based in Illinois. They make fiberglass, road bed substrate material, glass, and other reuses from it. If its not getting recycled here, this might be a niche opportunity for someone or a civic group. collect sort, and pulverize it, gets the best potential return, by non mixed colors seperation. "

JR wrote on Jun 27, 2009 11:55 AM:

" Well, gee Harry, I don't know about you, but my idea of the ulitimate vacation getaway would be to come to Charleston -- first on the itinerary, sight seeing on the square, featuring the artistic facades of town hall and the library. Makes the Parthenon and Yellowstone look trite! Trumps Falling Waters and the Empire State Building hands down! "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 27, 2009 9:08 PM:

" JR wrote on Jun 27, 2009 11:55 AM:

" Well, gee Harry, I don't know about you, but my idea of the ulitimate vacation getaway would be to come to Charleston....


I expect the traffic to be heavy this summer. There will probably be hot dog carts, street vendors of all sorts selling everything from souvenir t-shirts to knock off Rolex's similar to those that all over the place in NYC too, JR.

Unfortunately, those types of businesses are not known for paying taxes on their sales, so the city will have to set up a tax police squad and hire a retired fire chief like the county did at the courthouse. By the way, has anyone ever seen that guy on duty? I haven't. I would think that for 50 grand plus he could show up once in a while. "

Poster51 wrote on Jun 28, 2009 6:59 AM:

" Next will be reduction in operating hours along with additional staff cuts plus an increase of fees for services and increase of fees for library cards for those outside the district. "

Cognitus wrote on Jun 28, 2009 11:12 PM:

" Posters51:" .... increase of fees for library cards for those outside the district."

Not illogical. We think of libraries
being free -- as I believe they should be. BUT a few years ago when the State of Colorado refused to pay its share of the Denver Public Library (which has a great historical collection which is used throughout the state), the DPL charged $10 of anyone without a Denver address on driver's license. Right now is a hassle at Superior, CO which in the past provided free service. "

kamfong wrote on Jun 29, 2009 7:43 AM:

" Mike P, I don't know where that one thread dissapeared to,but I liked your "cash crop insight" cnbc had a neat show on last night about that subject in Calif. But I bet the individual featured is probably in Fed custody by now. "

Mike P wrote on Jun 29, 2009 12:16 PM:

" Monday is a normal musical articles day. Kind of surprized this thread is still active. Note SBLHC, and other local topics, got rotated out of most commented. Sometimes they get sent to the features page, which has a completely different tally system for the most commented articles.

The 2 futuregen partners drop out, which replaced the Two futuregen partners drop out, a few hours and posts, after it went up, may or may not still show up in active threads. Futuregen drop out search of the archives, should get both accessable.

I was refering to the other portion of GW energy speach, that led to the spawn of the siphoning government funding request that became the alliance, Switch grass. To get it grown large scale, on a million dollar field, another ethanol type program would have to be created with the government proping up prices, mandating use, and indy cars racing on it for free, to advertize it. "

11235 wrote on Jun 29, 2009 12:16 PM:

" Thanks Mike P for tip on TIF. "

Mike P wrote on Jun 29, 2009 3:14 PM:

" More folks, need to look over the available info, and give their thoughts on it. It needs to be discussed at length.

Back when the Square started theirs, it was less than 10 years old of a tool. I shopped at Benedicts, and went to Snyders. I supported it as it was presented. I bought the McHugh was suing to stop the convention center, being selfish to avoid competition. That is what this paper pushed hard on all fronts. If I were him, I wouldn't run ads in here, after biased coverage, editorial, and zero objective looks at the situation. Its probably cheaper and a much bigger household count, to hit the weekly bulk mail, with the walmart ads, like county market now does.

Now an appeals judge around the frivolous lawsuit capital of the world, says when it is sold as zero cost and impact to taxpayers it is an outright lie.

Sledgehammer morris, and several other online publications, make regular submissions on the pitfalls of TIF and its abuse and need for removal or real meaningfull reform.

The amendments to it in 99, were supposed to make it not to be used on city hall, golf courses, and other blatant abuses. Its supposed to be in the works, to get county clerks putting out regular TIF info.

Trying to track state legislation progress, is worse than reading some of the mundane studies, or watching paint dry. Every so often, the bill numbers change, it goes to committee with a date for action, that comes and passes, with no apparent anything.

There was a bill, requiring all TIF, enterprize zones, and other tax sheltered things, to pay prevailing wage on any construction, repairs, or qualifying work. Residence or not, Tax funded or not, any work done is to pay prevailing wage. It was through both houses, and languishing in the senate for final action, last I saw. Chamber of commerce is a big TIF cheerleader, and adamantly opposed to this idea, as are many TIF PRO information only pushers. It never even crossed this papers radar, except for me bringing it up from time to time, once I stumbled across it in my research to try to get better informed from unbiased sources, that aren't beholding to local benevolent benefactors over the public interest. "

Mike P wrote on Jun 29, 2009 6:09 PM:

" Its been 10 days, since this opine was submitted. No further action, no subsequent reporting, business as usual ensues.

They ocassionally pander to readers, but when was the last time any readers actually felt better informed from one of their submissions. From lake paradise ponds, TIF, budget gaps, failing responsibilities of all shapes and sizes, to libraries, issues grow and disinterested bystanders covering the news end of reporting, leave people on their own to get informed. They still give just 24hrs notice to meeting agendas, do zero follow up to ongoing issues, and placate the status quoe over the citizens ultimately footing the various bills regularly.

Oustings and "retirements" get announced, but digging for the truth of situations is apparently outside of the scope of their intentions. How many times have they sided with entities, that rid against the grain mentality? Why don't they ever question if the grain, plotted course, or decision is in the right direction?

Many of these issues are far from new, but they submit piece after piece in surprizing fashion, like it is the first time they have been aware of it.

Little, if anything developed or changed from the first time the same reporter covered Mattoon's library expansion plans, through monthly reminders, to the last article prior to the vote. Disinterested bystander probably doesn't even begin to describe that sort of reporting. "

 

 




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