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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

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Tuesday, June 9, 2009 10:25 PM CDT
LETTER: Now Republicans want to be the good guys

TERRENCE McGUIRE, Stewardson

Where were all these Republican world solvers when Bush, Cheney, and the rest of his lying cabinet sank our country into financial, moral and just plain bedlam for eight years?

Eight years of irresponsibility to our country. Eight years of our roads, schools, unemployment and so many more important things that our country probably will never find out about, to fight a war in Iraq that was fabricated from day one.

All of a sudden the Democratic Party are the socialists and the Republicans are the good guys.

For eight years, I believe Bush and Cheney tried to turn our country into a fascist country. Bush and his band of dummies changed our constitution wording, so that their simple minded thinking became the law and endangered the whole world we live in.

Republicans never had policies that would help the average family. From the early ‘80s, when Reagan began his attack on the middle class through both Bushes whose policy was tax cuts for the upper 5 percent, which as of today is the only true plan they have.

Of course Clinton opened the gates to NAFTA, but wasn’t it blunder boy who wanted to open a super highway from Mexico to Canada so he could give the rest of our country away. Wasn’t it under the Republican watch the 9/11 happened? Wasn’t it under Republican watch that the financial markets fell to ruins? Wasn’t it under the Republican watch that our moral values and our constitution was broken?

Now it’s time for all the Republicans who followed these events to sit back, keep quiet, and let someone who truly believes that our country can come back from eight years of neglect, to a nation of proud Americans.

This country voted for change, when we voted the Democratic Party in, everyone at election time knew that the Republicans and the leaders had not a clue on how to fix it.

Long before the Democratic Party took office, the Republican Party was floundering in mismanagement, now I can’t say they haven’t learned anything in eight years. They have, the simple word no!

TERRENCE McGUIRE

Stewardson

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Tom Andres wrote on Jun 9, 2009 10:49 PM:

" Terrence, is this letter supposed to be a distraction from what your boy is doing to this country right now? Otherwise, I really don't get the point of it. "

The Question wrote on Jun 10, 2009 7:09 AM:

" Six years of exclusive Republican rule of all three branches of government delivered permanent war, a shredded Constitution, a back-breaking national debt, American torture, American secret police, an American city left to drown, a flood of illegal cheap labor, outsourcing of middle class jobs, health care that is unaffordable, , corporate criminality run wild, a FutureGen bait-and-switch scam, the scorn of the rest of the world and a looming economic depression, all slathered over with sticky Jesus syrup. "

coonbug wrote on Jun 10, 2009 8:20 AM:

" Terrence, this was a very well and to the point letter to editor.

Thanks for pointing out the truth.

To those who question what Obama is TRYING to do --- he's fixing the mess he was given by the Republican right wingers. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 10, 2009 8:48 AM:

" I think they took Nancy Reagans "just say NO" campaign a bit too far. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Jun 10, 2009 9:31 AM:

" I still say I do not care who or what president we had at the time but "9-11 would have happened, and would have destroyed America as we knew it".
I also think it would not of mattered what president we had during Katrina. Our government was totally unprepared for anything like that. And that unpreparedness started long ago. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 10, 2009 11:56 AM:

" I think you are right Mr. Gordon our government was unprepared but it shouldn't have been. There were other situations (not as major but bad enough) that we should have learned something from. "

Collatine wrote on Jun 10, 2009 12:09 PM:

" The Question- do you even think before you write?
"delivered permanent war," - which Obama is ramping up, and maybe expanding to N. Koriea.

"a shredded Constitution" - yeah, our free speech rights are really in danger, and that "right to vote and choose our leaders thing"... yup Dubya did away with that!

"a back-breaking national debt" - which Obama more than tripled in his first 3 months, and that's before he wants to take over Health Care.

"American torture," - if you mean listening to Obama's speeches, right on!

"American secret police" - if you mean the eavesdropping, notice Obama is continuing this policy.

"an American city left to drown" - If you mean New Orleans, then yes, the Democratic leaders of that city and state had to be rescued by the Feds. FEMA's response wasn't great - took a week, - but was far better than the month it took to respond when Hurricane Andrew leveled Miami a couple decades ago. I keep hearing on the radio that I should have an emergency kit to last at least 72 hours. Guess the guys in New Orleans missed that message.

"flood of illegal cheap labor," - which Obama wants to legalize.

"outsourcing of middle class jobs" not sure what that refers to, - but if you mean by freezing domestic salaries so skilled workers goes overseas where they can make more money, then I give you OBAMA.

"health care that is unaffordable," true - not sure how that's Bush's fault, and I'm sure when Obama nationalizes it, it'll be all better and free.

"corporate criminality run wild," yes, and Obama will fix that by nationalizing the finance and manufacturing sectors

"a FutureGen bait-and-switch scam," - I thought you were against FutureGen? But I totally agree with you THERE!

"the scorn of the rest of the world" - I don't have a pressing need to be liked by the European elite, but I recall when the tsunami killed a quarter million, and villages in Indonesia ran up to the press and asked when the Americans would come... and sure enough, within days, our aircraft carriers were airlifting food to them. So I guess not everyone hates us.

"a looming economic depression" - which I'm sure Obama's policies won't deepen. Oh wait. They already HAVE.

"all slathered over with sticky Jesus syrup." - Did you not see the report today that Obama has mentioned Jesus more times already than Bush did, but he also mentions the godless more too, so that should cover you as well. ;-)

The point is, don't be a slave to a political leader or a political party, or heck, even a political ideology. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 10, 2009 12:17 PM:

" Terrence, is this letter supposed to be a distraction from what your boy is doing to this country right now?

Your BOY?

Now come on Tom, that was a bit much even for you. Next time try to be bit more subtle.... "

Becky wrote on Jun 10, 2009 12:40 PM:

" You are so right rohn. Our esteemed congress has been sold to the highest bidder for at least 30 years now. It has nothing to do with which "party" is in power at the time. They are both the same as they both have bottomless pockets to fill. "

coonbug wrote on Jun 10, 2009 1:30 PM:

" Rewriting the LAWS to suit your political agenda and war -- isn't just a "ANY PARTY" matter. It was the Bush admin that decided to make their OWN rules, it was his party that ignored televised information during Katrina, it was his party that tortured prisoners to make them LINK Saddam to 9/11, it was his party that allowed illegal wiretapping of your and my phone calls and emails, it was HIS admin that LEAKED the name of a CIA agent during a time of WAR and got away with it -- years ago that was called TREASON! "

father bob wrote on Jun 10, 2009 2:34 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Jun 10, 2009 12:17 PM:
"Your BOY?

Now come on Tom, that was a bit much even for you. Next time try to be bit more subtle.... """"""

now harry....you're making tommie look like some sort bigot or something. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 10, 2009 5:59 PM:

" "I still say I do not care who or what president we had at the time but "9-11 would have happened, and would have destroyed America as we knew it".
I also think it would not of mattered what president we had during Katrina. Our government was totally unprepared for anything like that. And that unpreparedness started long ago."
-----------

I agree, Mr Gordon. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 10, 2009 7:50 PM:

" coonbug wrote on Jun 10, 2009 1:30 PM:

" Rewriting the LAWS to suit your political agenda and war -- isn't just a "ANY PARTY" matter. It was the Bush admin that decided to make their OWN rules, it was his party that ignored televised information during Katrina, it was his party that tortured prisoners to make them LINK Saddam to 9/11, it was his party that allowed illegal wiretapping of your and my phone calls and emails, it was HIS admin that LEAKED the name of a CIA agent during a time of WAR and got away with it -- years ago that was called TREASON! "

Looks like you managed to sum up the Bush administaration's accomplishments in just one paragraph. Good job! "

Tom Andres wrote on Jun 10, 2009 8:53 PM:

" Now come on Tom, that was a bit much even for you. Next time try to be bit more subtle....

*****

Glad to see that not everything goes over your head, Harry. LOL "

Locke wrote on Jun 11, 2009 12:40 AM:

" Some of you disgust me. Can you just shut up for one day about your petty party politics?

You know why this country will not get any better? The two parties that alternate control of the government are very happy to have simple-minded hacks, such as yourselves, to stir the pot.

What does your party offer? Anything? No. Obama was against Bush, and McCain was against socialism.

Some of you are not fit to vote because you do not, no, you WILL NOT, look at any issue objectively.

This country won't get any better with this mentality. You disgrace this country with your drivel. I beg you, do not participate in the political process.

Stop crying over what the other guy has done or is doing and just shut up. "

The Question wrote on Jun 11, 2009 4:42 AM:

" There have been honest Republicans -- Dwight Eisenhower, Barry Goldwater, Paul O'Neill, John Dean, Hugh Sloan, Kevin Phillips, Paul Craig Roberts, Peter Fitzgerald, among others.
All are either dead now or have been banished by the completely corrupted, stupidity-worshipping party they once served. All the party has left are the theocrats, the kleptocrats, the torture fetishists and the brainless, greedy, honking moose queens.
The party's over. "

The Question wrote on Jun 11, 2009 5:10 AM:

" The real enemy of the ranting, talk radio-addled crackpot brigade that now controls the Republican Party isn't the Democratic Party. It's civilization itself.
Openly or covertly, they regard free speech, reason, compassion, public education, civil rights, civil liberties and science as liberal vices to be eradicated. Truth, too. Hence the ease with which they lie.
They despise the Constitution and art, regarding both as subversive. Their porcine pontiff, Rush Limbaugh, doesn't even know the difference between the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence.
The very idea of torture appeals to them. They like it and defend it.
They worship, or pretend to worship, fundamentalist religion. It's so useful for manipulating the morons. They actually DO worship guns, money and fascist power, with all the fervor in their black little hearts. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 11, 2009 7:31 AM:

" I see another right wing conservative has struck. The number of right wing zealot's murders appears to be growing. I read where the latest one was part of the movement trying to claim that Obama isn't legally the president.

It seems to me that the conservatives in this country are getting bolder by the day.

How much of this is the result of the pot stirring style of Fox news? I think the doctor killing was partly inspired by the rantings of the Bill O'Reilly.

It would not surprise me if the nut case who shot up the museum was a regular Fox viewer too.

Rupert Murdoch is using every means at his disposal, including Fox news, to drive the people of this country apart. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 11, 2009 8:32 AM:

" A recent poll taken among those who identify themselves as Republicans shows the top three persons seen as leaders of that party are Rush Limbaugh, Dick Cheney and Newt Gingrich, in that order. All of them seem to have one strategy, and that is that the country needs to move back to the extreme right wing policies that nearly wrecked this country in the first place.

A party being lead by an accused felon, disgraced former VP and a serial marriage former speaker of the house is really a political joke. The only consolation is that their not looking to Sarah and the fake plumber for leadership now.

Looks like Sarah Palin, the intellectual giant from Alaska didn't fair to well in this poll. Is the base of that party starting to realize how much of a joke she really is? With apologies to those who live in house trailers, Sarah's popularity seems to be limited to the trailer park variety of Republicans at best. Sarah's latest snafu was to plagiarize parts of one of Gingrich's speech. Not a word of this on Fox news. I can only imagine if Obama was accused of this how ballistic Fox would have gone. They would still be trying to make an issue of it.

In fairness to Fox news, the other major networks ignored this story too, they gave her a pass, just like they did Cheney over his war profiteering.

Is it any wonder that party is floundering around like a ship without a rudder?

About the only solution to any of the problems in this country that they can come up with is to once again cut the taxes for the super rich and more deregulation. That and vote in a block against everything the current president is trying do. Fortunately for us, the Republicans are in a minority so their block voting is merely a symbolic gesture.

Considering the popularity of Obama and the strong sentiment to see him succeed, I have to question the wisdom of that strategy. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 11, 2009 8:39 AM:

" Glad to see that not everything goes over your head, Harry. LOL "

I have to admit I was a little surprised to see you being so blatant with that obvious racist comment, Tom. "

The Question wrote on Jun 11, 2009 8:57 AM:

" The Democratic Party is deeply compromised and cowardly, but it's sometimes benign. The events of the last several years have demonstrated to the world that the Republican Party is purely malignant. If left to its own devices, the Republican Party would, in short order, destroy the Constitution, civil liberties, privacy, journalism, public education, scientific inquiry, the world economy, the American middle class and the lives of millions of people in wars of choice and aggression.
The frustrated right wingers ginned up by GOP propaganda are now leaving blood in the streets because they can't get their way on abortion and racism.
That last GOP gang of thugs came close to many of those consequences, in part through their inbred taste for tyranny and in part through sheer, blundering, short-sighted, self-satisfied incompetence.
John Dean warned Nixon of a cancer on the presidency. We now have a cancer on the American body politic, and it is the Republican Party. "

nothingsfree wrote on Jun 11, 2009 9:53 AM:

" Collantine - way to make the point! The liberal press and the left leaning posters on this site would love for you to overlook the problems our new president is causing. "Please don't talk bad about him as he is our President and should get a certain amount of respect" Agreed. But unfortunately that went out the window with the constant Bush bashing. There is no responsibility for Liberals. Mexican labor coming to America is now a Republican issue? Give me a break. That problem is 100% the responsibility of the Democratic Party. The downfall of this country's economy has been unavoidable since we changed the rules to allow homeloans and auto loans to everyone (qualified or not) because it was "more fair". Look at Charleston. I moved away for 7 years. When I came back, Charleston had not grown. No new jobs, just lost jobs. Yet look at all of the new subdivisions with 250K houses. Look at the people driving Escalades and living in 170k homes who you know cant afford it. Eventually they will go bankrupt. Someone has to pay. Where is the personal responsibility of the borrower? My neighbor is waiting for "Obama to keep his word and save his house". Has not made a payment in 8 months. Does not look for a job, has parties every night. Smokes 1 1/2 packs a day, drinks budweiser constantly. Lives on Food stamps... but never has any food. His kids eat at my house, even when mine are not home. The difference between conservative and Liberal? Conservative (me) wants the right to choose to help this idiot's kids. The liberals want to force me to help this idiot with his drinking/smoking/partying habits. I'd like to see just how much actual voluntary donating of time and money the every day liberal posters on this website do. There are a couple that I know have donated much to kids programs etc. but what about the rest. "Question" what is your actual contribution to society? Other than enlightening us all by calling Bush a "chimp" (true or not). My guess is that doing anything real for someone else would be too conformative. Gotta stick it to the man! BS. I think I can speak for the masses of people who work hard and give a huge chunk of their earnings to help other people when I say am sick of listening to your drivel! Put up or shut up. I read Obamas books and I agree that he really seemed to be a good man at some point. But look at him when he talks now. He is the smartest person to ever walk the Earth. He knows more about every aspect of everything than anyone. He is now a true politian. Too bad. There are no "Good guys" in politics. Sorry Terrance. No savior here. "

Tom Andres wrote on Jun 11, 2009 10:05 AM:

" Dear Harry and fb, LOL, we know you are the self-appointed word police on here. Do you also claim to be the thought police?

If so, here are my thoughts (for your evaluation) on the O-man. Chronologically, he is a boy. At age 47, he's the leader of the so-called free world. In todays complex world, especially considering his nave, sheltered life experiences, thats young! Hes a boy. Why does everything have to be race-baited with you two? If anyone disagrees with your Oboy, you try to wrap them in a Confederate flag and label them as a racist. Thats old news, guys. Its the 21st Century; lets call a spade a spade. (As in Oscar Wildes The Importance of Being Earnest)

Politically, hes the product of being a lackey, a minion, to Marxist influences his entire life. Now he finds himself in a position where he has heavy debts to repay to those folks who elevated him to his throne. If he doesnt kowtow, those same folks will destroy him. So, being a lackey, a minion, also makes him a boy. A man would have stood up on his own by his age and be obligated to no one except God and Country. "

The Question wrote on Jun 11, 2009 10:15 AM:

" Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano should be fired for daring to "apologize" for a legitimate intelligence report about a domestic right-wing terrorism threat in the U.S. that was obviously correct. Clearly she doesn't have the guts or the sense to do her job. "

father bob wrote on Jun 11, 2009 10:17 AM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Jun 11, 2009 8:39 AM:
"I have to admit I was a little surprised to see you being so blatant with that obvious racist comment, Tom. """"""

tommie tries to use double entendre or innuendo, but just isn't smart enough to pull it off. "

father bob wrote on Jun 11, 2009 10:24 AM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Jun 11, 2009 8:32 AM:
"Sarah's popularity seems to be limited to the trailer park variety of Republicans at best. Sarah's latest snafu was to plagiarize parts of one of Gingrich's speech. Not a word of this on Fox news.""""

newt himself stepped in a pile this week when he was addressing republicans. his comment "i am NOT a citizen of the world" was meant to slam the president's "i come to you as a citizen of the world" statement....

newt snickered and posed and derided the thought of caring about the rest or the world....seems no one told him Obama had borrowed the phrase from ronald reagan's address to the UN.

guess the republicans just need to stick to talking about guns, killing and christianity. "

father bob wrote on Jun 11, 2009 10:50 AM:

" The Question wrote on Jun 11, 2009 4:42 AM:
" There have been honest Republicans -- Dwight Eisenhower, Barry Goldwater, Paul O'Neill, John Dean, Hugh Sloan, Kevin Phillips, Paul Craig Roberts, Peter Fitzgerald, among others.
All are either dead now or have been banished by the completely corrupted, stupidity-worshipping party they once served. All the party has left are the theocrats, the kleptocrats, the torture fetishists and the brainless, greedy, honking moose queens.
The party's over. """"

GREAT post! violence seems to be the only way republicans cope with issues. they obviously haven't the intelligence nor moral fiber to deal with the world's problems. the intellectuals have all jumped ship leaving a party of ne're-do-wells who resort to murder, intimidation and deceit to make their mark.....usually in the name of "god" or some false sense of flag-waiving patriotism. "

The Question wrote on Jun 11, 2009 11:18 AM:

" During the last election, thanks to a relentless GOP propaganda campaign aimed at know-nothings, craven and wretched reporting by the corporate media and the general thundering stupidity of the American public, what we were offered as "issues" were such topics as Hillary Clinton's capacity to puddle up, Barack Obama's middle name, the fear of his "secret Muslim religion," whether he and his wife indulge in "terrorist fist bumps," and his bowling score.
This was what the moron voters in this country wanted to discuss while deregulated corporate financial fraud collapsed the entire world economy. Just before the election, 23 percent of the fools in Texas reported that they thought Obama was a Muslim. More than 40 percent in Florida and Ohio said they did not know what his religion was.
With this nation populated by people as ignorant as the right wingers who write their screeds on this site, it's lucky we're not all dead already. "

The Question wrote on Jun 11, 2009 11:25 AM:

" The American right wing creates, arms and encourages its old, white, male, Christian-fanatic fascist terrorists, but it's quick to throw them under the bus once they do what they have been relentlessly goaded to do by the right-wing propaganda ranters on Fox News and talk radio. Then, suddenly, they're all "lone nuts."
If only this DC terrorist had been a Muslim, Sean Hannity would have been screaming for the creation of concentration camps on the air for the next three weeks. Instead, because it was one of Hannity's white supremacist followers, Hannity had to COMPLETELY IGNORE the biggest news story of the day. I'm sure he was bitterly disappointed. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 11, 2009 11:27 AM:

" Once again you start dancing when you get called out for your blatant racists comments, Tom. About the only thing you left out was your usual tirade about anonymous posting. lol! "

Tom Andres wrote on Jun 11, 2009 11:28 AM:

" Wow, Harry, in your fairytale diatribe against the GOP, you forgot to mention your guy, Dave Letterman's unbelievable assault on Sarah Palins family on America actually. Whether he was referring to 18-year-old Bristol, or 14-year-old Willow (the one actually at the Yankees game with her mother), Letterman proved once again why his ratings are in the tank. He hasn't been a comedian for years, just another (tired old George Carlen) sicko political hack posing as a comedian. Anyone who actually laughed at his joke about Willow Palin (age 14) being knocked up by Alex Rodriguez during the 7th inning stretch should be ashamed of themselves. And anyone who laughed at his twisted apology should also be ashamed of themselves. What has this country become?

And by the way, Harry, not everyone wants Oboy to succeed. He's taking our country down the wrong path. His failed plan must be stopped before he absolutely destroys this great nation. "

gringa wrote on Jun 11, 2009 11:37 AM:

" Here's one a friend sent me, for all you boys and girls on the left.

*****

WHAT DO OBAMA AND GOD HAVE IN COMMON?

Neither has a birth certificate.

HOW DO THEY DIFFER?

God does not think he's Obama.
Liberals love Obama.
God asks for only 10% of your money.
God gives you freedom to live your life as you choose.
God's plan to save us is actually written down for people to read. "

The Question wrote on Jun 11, 2009 11:39 AM:

" The only sane, sometimes-honest person on Fox News, Shepard Smith, has admitted that the emails he gets from the crowd of right-wing crazies who watch Fox News are starting to frighten him.
Smith said, "There are people now, who are way out there on a limb. And I think they're just out there on a limb with the email they send us. Because I read it, and they are out there. I mean, out there in a scary place... I could read a hundred of them like this... I mean from today. People who are so amped up and so angry for reasons that are absolutely wrong, ridiculous, preposterous."
Smith went on to read an email filled with the same "Obama is an alien" insanity that the right wingers post on this site. "

InsaneWayne wrote on Jun 11, 2009 3:13 PM:

" Interesting letter, of course you know this area is full of Prehistoric Republicans. They vote for the grand old party because their ancestors did. Even though the current party and candidates havent a thing to do with the distant past.

One thing is for sure, theyre still proud to be born and born to be proud even if the were recently handed there a__es in the election. Theyre incapable of grasping any way of thinking but their own.

Lucky for the country at this point, that even though they may make up the majority out here in the hinterland, they are a minority in the country as a hole.

Ignorance and narrow-minded nasty hypocrisy are the foundations of their beliefs. For this reason I feel they need to change their mascot to the Dinosaur to actually represent their way of thinking.

Actually, a neutered dog might be better. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Jun 11, 2009 3:17 PM:

" Come on TQ I never heard anyone say they thought Obama climbed out of a space ship. "

father bob wrote on Jun 11, 2009 3:29 PM:

" Tom Andres wrote on Jun 11, 2009 11:28 AM:
"And by the way, Harry, not everyone wants Oboy to succeed. He's taking our country down the wrong path. His failed plan must be stopped before he absolutely destroys this great nation. """"

hmmmmm.....now don't go postal on us tommie. talk like that sounds very familiar and dangerous. "

father bob wrote on Jun 11, 2009 3:36 PM:

" The Question wrote on Jun 11, 2009 11:39 AM:
"Smith went on to read an email filled with the same "Obama is an alien" insanity that the right wingers post on this site."""""

yeah, andres is going postal.

i'd like to know just how their lives have been disrupted. seriously....i'm sure tommie still goes about his daily routine without missing a beat. i'd like to know just what has happened in his personal life that is change so dramatically. "

father bob wrote on Jun 11, 2009 3:42 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Jun 11, 2009 11:27 AM:
" Once again you start dancing when you get called out for your blatant racists comments, Tom. About the only thing you left out was your usual tirade about anonymous posting. lol! """""

the same tommy andres who said he'd never be back. they must have run him out of all the coffee shops. "

father bob wrote on Jun 11, 2009 3:47 PM:

" harry you ever do a google mapping with the little yellow man that takes you on "street view".....pretty cool. you can actually interactively stand in front of an address. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 11, 2009 7:39 PM:

" What has this country become?

Darn good question, Tom. The way the right wingers are shooting people right and left it does make you wonder. Read TQ's comments about the e-mails the fox fans are sending in. I hope you aren't e-mailing Fox (just kidding).

Perhaps Letterman was only trying to help poor Sarah out, she is after all doing everything she can do to keep on the front page. Look for more outlandish shenanigans from her now that she seems to be falling out of favor with the Pubs. You wouldn't be one of hose Palin fanatics, would you Tom?

While his jokes may have been a bit much, they pale in comparison to one of the comments made by the commentator on Fox suggesting that someone should assassinate Obama, remember that one? I don't recall you going bananas over
that one.

Besides if she didn't dress so poorly, why did the RNC spend mega bucks trying to clean her up? They even spent money cleaning up her kept husband, the redneck and her kids too. Honestly, Palin is a walking punch line, and you know it. "

Tom Andres wrote on Jun 11, 2009 7:57 PM:

" Thank you, Mr/Ms Monitor. Somehow you let one of Humphreys' grossly inappropriate zingers get past you. Thank you for deleting it. Funny though, how you seem to catch the conservative faux pas than you do the liberal. In all honesty, it's not even a close contest, is it? "

lefty wrote on Jun 11, 2009 8:18 PM:

" GRINGA's listening to right-wing talk again.

I love the double-standards of the American right. Refer to GRINGA's forward, below...

"HOW DO THEY (God and Obama) DIFFER?

God does not think he's Obama.
Liberals love Obama.
God asks for only 10% of your money.
God gives you freedom to live your life as you choose.
God's plan to save us is actually written down for people to read. "

Replace Obama with Bush-Cheney, and liberals with conservative. Works that way too.

When you play a partisan hack, you have to come to grips with the inevitable... you will be a hypocrite. "

Cognitus wrote on Jun 11, 2009 11:52 PM:

" R Gordon:"Our government was totally unprepared for anything like that. And that unpreparedness started long ago."

Maybe so. But I had the impression it was the duty of a president to FIX the errors
of previous administrations instead of just chopping brush on his ranch???? "

Cognitus wrote on Jun 12, 2009 12:08 AM:

" nothings free:"I'd like to see just how much actual voluntary donating of time and money the every day liberal posters on this website do. "

Well,jerk, I'll tell you. Although I retired 20 years ago, I volunteer 2 1/2
months a year for a well-known US govt
agency, working a 40 hour week just as I did before I retired.

Money. I'm not rich and not a great
philanthropist, but I've given enough to two non-profit organizations that I've got a little plate on the wall at each with my name engraved on it. And at the government agency, I've given so much volunteer time that there ALSO I've got a plate with my name engraved on it.
And if you've followed these columns, you know I'm as liberal as they come.

So NOW, braggart, tell us how much free time YOU give to your community, how many $$$. How many times is YOUR name on a plate on the wall?????????

SPEAK UP, I can't seem to hear you. "

Cognitus wrote on Jun 12, 2009 12:20 AM:

" Andres:"In todays complex world, especially considering his nave, sheltered life experiences, thats young! '
Andres, what kind of "nave" are you talking about

I've consulted Webster and it defines "nave" as a part of a church.........
I think you've exceeded your literary
capability this time.

So far as "sheltered life" -- his mother died early, his grandparents were by no means wealthy -- and yet his ability and ambition was such that he graduated from Harvard with highest honors. [Do you know how hard it is to be editor of Harvard Las review?? OBVIOUSLY, this is a post of which you are entirely ignorant.]

Why don't you tell us your highest accomplishment in law school??? or was it medical school????? Actually, I'm guessing you have a PhD in BeeeSsssss. "

unknownjoe wrote on Jun 12, 2009 12:25 AM:

" My guess is that none of you meatbags that post on here have ever suffered true hardship of any kind. But the day is coming. Some of you can't even get your politics correct. Facism/Nazism are forms of socialism. They have nothing to do with rightwing politics. As far as political parties are concerned, Democrat, Republican, there are no true Democrats or Republicans anymore. There are just parasites living in D.C. who take turns at the trough that we provide. The sad thing is that we provide it without question due to party loyalty, inflamed passions for "Issues" that we deem so important that they keep us busy while the parasite feeds off the host and we never know it. Or we refuse to see. The government isn't there to serve the people anymore. We have been transformed into servants of the malignant system that feeds off of us. You can either continue to bicker over irrelevant issues and scraps from the master's table. Or you can say enough is enough. But of course it is easier to be the sheeple instead of the sheep dog. "

kamfong wrote on Jun 12, 2009 2:50 AM:

" Mothings free, a lot of those people driving Escalades are into sales and distributionso they very well can afford their rides and homes.Are you sure your broke as$ neighbor whose to lazy to look for work isn't being visited by one of those fancy rides. I beleve those into sales also cheerfully accept food stamps,could it be you are an enabler.I'm glad your'e not my nosey neighbor. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 12, 2009 7:13 AM:

" Curious isn't it, I agreed with FatherBob (and got censored after it was first posted)that Mr. Andres should watch what he says against Obama (actually anyone. Comments bordering on threats (his plan must be stopped, degrades easily to he must be stopped). The reality is that Obama has gotten more death threats than other president starting when he just declared his candidacy. Fact is mildly veiled threats/comments are overlooked, passed off as idle blowing off steam, "he'd never do anything"..... That is until "he" actually does something as in the case of the DC shooter. Such comments as Mr. Andres if not censored should be "commented" upon by others as being inappropriate and crossing the line. "

The Question wrote on Jun 12, 2009 8:04 AM:

" "Let's not look backward." The motto of all criminals who've been caught. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 12, 2009 8:29 AM:

" Funny though, how you seem to catch the conservative faux pas than you do the liberal. In all honesty, it's not even a close contest, is it?

You Sound kind of paranoid to me.

Perhaps that's because the right wingers are more guilty of that than the liberals. lol! "

The Question wrote on Jun 12, 2009 8:31 AM:

" These murderous right-wing attacks are being ginned up by deliberately inflammatory propaganda from Fox News and the fascist talk radio gasbags. They would just love a nice blood bath in the streets of America. That chaos would provide an opening for a return to power by their failed, disgraced, greedy and completely corrupt Republican Party.
Who laughingly suggested that Obama should be assassinated? The pundit Liz Trotta on Fox News. And she's still there, sitting pretty. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 12, 2009 8:37 AM:

" It looks like the no nothing moose queen is milking all the publicity she can out of the Letterman joke. She should be thanking him for putting her back on the front page, well at least on Fox's front page. Fox and Sarah will drag this thing on for as long as they can. Maybe she should drag Joe the fake plumber out and do a national tour over this issue. "

The Question wrote on Jun 12, 2009 9:03 AM:

" More violence as Iraq falls apart. Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld sowed the wind in Iraq for the sake of their greed and power lust. Now we reap the bloody whirlwind. "

The Question wrote on Jun 12, 2009 10:43 AM:

" When despairing Republican friends ask political analyst Mike Murphy what they should do, he tells them, "Build an ark."
He says the voter demographics spell "an ice age" for the GOP. And good riddance.
One-party rule is extremely dangerous. The only thing that's more dangerous is giving Republicans any power in America ever again. "

The Question wrote on Jun 12, 2009 10:44 AM:

" " I think they took Nancy Reagans "just say NO" campaign a bit too far. "
---
LOL. Your wit is dangerous, Susan. No wonder your opponents here are so afraid of you. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Jun 12, 2009 10:51 AM:

" Tom Andres, why are you still posting on Mattoon-Charleston's very own version of Pravda?

Is it your goal to be named "Yongmyong-han Dongji" amongst the other "esteemed" comrades on here?

Or is it that you aspire to be the Quisling equivalent of Joe Scarborough or Pat Buchanan on NBC/MSNBC/CNBC?

Relevant to this question I have a "model" that you might find of interest.

Provided this post does not get censored, please respond here...

Don't worry...I'll then respond to you through "normal" channels... "

Tom Andres wrote on Jun 12, 2009 11:19 AM:

" Cognitus, I assure you the word naive was spelled correctly in my post. Perhaps the monitor on here is not familiar with the two little dots that Microsoft Word places above the "i". In case you havent noticed, punctuation is frequently deleted during the posting process on here.

As to your Oboy, would you rather me call him naive, or stupid, or plain old mean-spirited?

As I've said before, I don't trust the man, never will. If that's something Napolitano can investigate me for, you should not turn your back on her either. I seem to remember you taking a few vicious swats at the other side from time to time.

I assume you retired from the IRS and now do tax returns for seniors. Congrats on your "little plates on the walls". I guess the liberal code of etiquette is to brag profusely about your own selfless volunteerism? Tell me, do you carry Brasso with you when you visit your walls, you know, to get rid of that darned tarnish? "

Tom Andres wrote on Jun 12, 2009 12:06 PM:

" NeoCon Academician, I sometimes ask myself the same question. Why bother posting here? It's not really a dialogue, in the sense of meaningful exchanges, but rather a collection of unanswered and often irrelevant cyber notes.

Honestly, I have no idea who "Yongmyong-han Dongji" is, and may not care.

As to your comparison of me to Quisling - wasn't he executed for war crimes or something like that? So, you think I'm a traitor? Who did I betray?

I don't follow Scarborough at all. For some reason, my MSNBC button doesn't work. LOL. My Letterman button doesn't work either, not for several years now.

As for Pat Buchanan, eh, I know very little of him, but most of the time, he seems a little off the beam for me.

NeoCon Academician, at my age, and perhaps foolishly, I have pretty much abandoned attempts to "model" myself after anyone. I'm pretty much who I am, and this far out in time, a change in direction for me would have to come from a pretty high level, such as God Almighty speaking directly to me, but I'm wiling to listen to anything you have to say about what my "model" should be.

So, please, do the normal channels thing. I'd be interested in what you have to say. "

nothingsfree wrote on Jun 12, 2009 1:16 PM:

" Cognitus - your generosity is noted and appreciated. You missed my point entirely by thats fine. My point is that there are many people who will donate time and money without being mandated to do so. There are also many who like to mandate others to "donate" but don't feel the need to donate themselves.

Kamfong - your post was nothing short of idiodic. First of all, yes, I am sure there are salesman and distributors that drive nice cars and have nice homes. Good for them. MOST people can afford what they FINANCE. MOST people are not losing their homes because they could not afford what they bought. During a normal economic downturn there would be many unfortunate families that would lose their homes. The Crisis has been magnified by the foreclosure of homes 100% financed for people who could not afford what they bought in the first place.

As for my Neighbor. He is very forward about his feeling that he should be "helped". I know his business because he feels the need to share. I continue to listen because his kids are good kids. They need to eat and they need shoes. I continue to listen because I was those kids. My mother took the foodstamps and the welfare check because she had kids to provide for! Unfortunately her kids saw none of it! Neighbors helped her kids eat. People like Cognitus made sure that her kids got a small but very meaningful X-mas gift. Meanwhile the public aid went for brandy and cigarettes at the bar. What is a welfare system that forces higher taxes and funds programs with no direction? Why am I the problem for thinking the system should make sure that the aid goes to those who need it instead of buying drugs and alcohol for those that refuse to try? Twist it how you want. There are many good people on the welfare rolls who more than deserve every bit of help they get and more. BUT, the program needs to be modified to protect the children of those who do not. Why does my money have to go to a man for cigarettes instead of food for his kids? For now, I guess, it is what it is. If feeding and playing ball with the neighbors kids while he sleeps off a drunk makes me an enabler or a bad neighbor.....then so be it. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Jun 12, 2009 1:27 PM:

" Tom,

Sorry, I should elaborate. I peruse several news sources on a regular basis; Online/newspaper "Pravada" here takes about 30 seconds to go through so I sometimes don't realize people may not have seen or recognize the same stuff I've viewed....

"Yongmyong-han Dongji" means "brilliant comrade"...you'll have to access other online news sources concerning current application to Kim Jung-IL of North Korea.

You know about Kim, right?

If Obama could just sit down with him and talk to him....;}...wait a minute... let me wipe my eyes from tears of laughter...over that whole 15 year long debacle...

I don't think you are foolish...it's just that I read who you say that you know and associate with so...the "model" I was speaking of has a "business model" connotation to it.

I'll make contact...

FYI, a vowel with 2 dots above it is an "umlaut". It represents a sound change especially with words used/originated in "hard" languages were the vowel sound is formed at the back of the tongue. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Jun 12, 2009 1:31 PM:

" Welcome back...Dr. W. "

Cognitus wrote on Jun 12, 2009 2:14 PM:

" Andres:"I assume you retired from the IRS and now do tax returns for seniors. Congrats on your "little plates on the walls". I guess the liberal code of etiquette is to brag profusely about your own selfless volunteerism?"

No, I'm not an IRS agent; in fact the job I do does not exist in Illinois; I drive 1000 miles -- at my own expense -- to reach my volunteer site, as well as the site where 2 of my 3 "plates" stand on the wall.

AND I "bragged" about my volunteer work and contributions ONLY **ONLY** after "nothingsfree" claimed liberals never volunteered or contributed money and challenged us to prove otherwise.

So there, Anderaxx "

The Question wrote on Jun 12, 2009 2:41 PM:

" The corporate news media keeps desperately slapping the paddles on the Republican Party and giving it another jolt, making its corpse twitch out a dance for us one more time. "

Cognitus wrote on Jun 12, 2009 2:43 PM:

" Andres:"As to your comparison of me to Quisling - wasn't he executed for war crimes or something like that? So, you think I'm a traitor?"

Quisling started out as a minister of the gospel, but when the Germans came,
named himself Prime Minister and became their "Decider". Yes, he was given a choice of suicide or exile -- which he unwisely refused thinking the people of Norway would support him -- and ended up executed by firing squad.

Whether you are a Quisling or not is still unknown. But if Rush goes down, you may go with him. "

Tom Andres wrote on Jun 12, 2009 3:18 PM:

" NeoCon Academician, I've never claimed to be an intellectual, as your pseudonym may suggest for you; however, in defense of my non-MENSA status, it is rather difficult to "get one past me". I listen very closely to the words people use and I pay particularly close attention to lame ambiguity, which is why I don't trust Barack Obama. Not even for a split second.

Describing this newspaper as "Pravda" may be a little harsh, but yes, they do seem to be rather faint of heart when it comes to analysis and reporting on the meaty local issues. Other than coming out in favor of motherhood and God and country, page-4 tends to be absent specific criticisms of the local power structure. I suspect their Editorial page is overly sensitive to the P&L. I enjoyed reading page-4 content during Dave Simpson's brief tenure here several years ago. I'm convinced he didn't stay long because he too often spoke his mind and ruffled some feathers.

By the way, you did mean Pravda, not Pravada, right?

Yes, Im familiar with the name Kim Jung-IL. As far as Im concerned, hes the number one poster boy for small strike team foreign intervention. Weve spent enough life and treasure in that nation during the last six decades. We should simply eliminate his regime, do the same in Iran, and move on to more important world tares. My view of Iraq is the same, always has been. Although I solemnly respect the sacrifices made by our troops since 9/11, I never did see the rationale behind committing a whole army to a mission a few (literally, a few) good men could have accomplished with solid intelligence and cover.

Hmmm, Im thinking if you know what an "umlaut" is, you can roll your rs too. LOL. Hey, wait a minute! I should not have said that. unfather bob will be calling me racist again. "

Tom Andres wrote on Jun 12, 2009 3:31 PM:

" Well, gheeze, Cognitus, why don't you just come out from under that cloak and tell us who you are and exactly what you do to earn those "little plates on the wall"? The town could gather round you and praise you and hand you yet another shiny plate.

A few more questions for you: (1) Do you carry Brasso with you on your 1,000 drive? (2) What does Anderaxx mean? (Ill bet you were upset with me and in your anger you hit the wrong keys on that keyboard thingy.) (3) Do you deduct the mileage on your tax return? (I mean, if you want to pay higher taxes, you know, like all liberals do, that would be one inconspicuous, low-profile way to do that, and who knows, maybe the IRS would send you another "little plate for your walls" for good measure.) "

Kamfong wrote on Jun 12, 2009 4:17 PM:

" Nothings free, I guess you don't know what kind of sales and distribution products I'm refering to. "

The Question wrote on Jun 12, 2009 5:38 PM:

" Well, now that the newspaper's poll has ended -- the one asking how just rotten Obama was to go on a date with his wife -- they'll need another snarky, meaningless attack poll to aim at him.
May I suggest the one from Fox News; "Do you think Obama is sneaking smokes?" "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 12, 2009 7:05 PM:

" Well, gheeze, Cognitus, why don't you just come out from under that cloak...

Looks like someone got the best of Tom again. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 12, 2009 7:16 PM:

" From FOX news:

New York State Assembly Minority Leader Brian Kolb, a Republican, is calling on the CEO of CBS to fire David Letterman for crude comments he made about Sarah Palin and her daughter.

In the letter to CBS chief Les Moonves, Kolb said he took Letterman to task for the "shockingly inappropriate" jokes.

Where was this clown when the Fox commentator joked about someone needing to assassinate Obama? Really now, does making fun of the media hog Palin and her values challenged daughter compare to assassinating someone? And you Republicans wonder why people are laughing at you.

Just as I predicted earlier, Fox is going to milk this story for all it's worth. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 12, 2009 7:23 PM:

" Fix News host Sean Hannity only devoted one sentence to discussing the shooting at the Holocaust Museum on his program this week, Media Matters reports. This comes after Hannity had criticized other networks for not giving significant coverage to the recent shooting at an Army recruiting center in Arkansas. Instead of discussing the shooting at the Holocaust museum, Hannity did, according to Media Matters, dedicate significant time on his show this week to "David Letterman's jokes about Sarah Palin, the firing of Miss California Carrie Prejean, and actor Craig T. Nelson's take on the proper role of government."

Perhaps Hannity's silence indicated tacit support for his fellow right winger. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 12, 2009 7:40 PM:

" Palin is sensing traction on this story. Best thing you can do with this fool is to ignore her, but like a case of the dry heaves she keeps coming up.

Internet blogger- "

theproletariat87 wrote on Jun 12, 2009 8:40 PM:

" Agreed with the letter but stating a couple facts. one: yes repubs quit this idea that we are turning socialist, if the People of Hybrid Socialism (my cause) wins, then I'll show you socialism. Yet, that won't even be true socialism.

Two: both sides are facists, either its liberal facism, moderate facism or conservative facism. "

Equitanus wrote on Jun 12, 2009 8:46 PM:

" WOW! did you hear the news, BO is coming to Mattoon for the groundbreaking ceremony for Future Gen. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Jun 12, 2009 9:34 PM:

" Yes Tom...Pravda...the former Soviet state newspaper. Forgive the "spell check" oversite.

No, I don't think it's too harsh to label it Pravda. Notice how the whole tenor of our local Pravda has changed since the election. You'll never see anything critical of "the messiah" or his ruling duma on here. Just look at the # of "groupthink" socialist bloggers on here...so, yeah Tom, "Pravda" applies. "

The Question wrote on Jun 13, 2009 7:55 AM:

" Bush was the worst president in living memory, perhaps the worst in history. And you puffed-up, narrow-minded, jingoistic jerks who gave power to this brainless, corrupt trust-fund baby did incalculable damage to the United States of America and its Constitution.
That's the fact you cannot face about yourselves, but that you will have to live with for the rest of your lives, nevertheless. "

The Question wrote on Jun 13, 2009 8:02 AM:

" Letterman and Palin were made for each other. Letterman is a comedian,, and Palin will always be a joke. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 13, 2009 8:13 AM:

" A son of the 88-year-old white supremacist who allegedly started a shootout at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum is slamming his father's "cowardice" and apologizing to the family of the security guard his dad is accused of killing.
Huffington post-

It seems the son of the museum shooter has done the right thing. Condemning the actions of his deranged father was probably a difficult thing for him to do. Too bad the Fox's news Sean Hannity can't bring himself to condemn his fellow right wing conservative. This is the same cowardly Hannity that refused to live up to his promise to be waterboarded to raise money for the troops. What a coward this Fox news gasbag is.

Meanwhile, Fox's Billo the Clown shows his tacit support for the doctor killer by defending his hateful rhetoric.

All of you Fox fans should be proud of those two reprobates. They epitomise the philosophy of Rupert Murdoch and his propaganda outlet, Fox news. "

unknownjoe wrote on Jun 13, 2009 8:54 AM:

" I am sure that Barry coming to town is the pinnacle of the hopes and dreams of some of the posters here. I am sure that FB, the ? and Harry will have a private reception. You can all sit on the couch and watch a private viewing of "Steel Magnolias" sharing a box of tissues. Then Harry can do parlor magic for entertainment. Make sure you have plenty of arugala salad and St. Louis Pizza; you know how ticked Michelle gets when she is hungry. Be careful, she was voted "Most Likely to Kill a Targ With One Strike with a Batlath" by the Kllingon High Council. To finish the evening off you guys can have a poetry reading from Bill Ayers and Hugo Chavez, with a dual Benediction from Father Bob and The Reverend Jeremiah Wright. Sounds like a smashing evening. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 13, 2009 10:09 AM:

" My my unknowjoe, you sound like you were reliving one of your fantasies with all that nonsense.

Don't worry, we liberals are all inclusive so we'll be sure to invite a few right wing nutcases such as yourself, Neo, Pierce, Tom A and will play a video of the redneck hero & moose queen, Palin. You can even bring your guns and bibles. On second thought the way you right wingers have been shooting people lately, better leave the guns at home. And feel to bring all your Ann Coulter books along. "

The Question wrote on Jun 13, 2009 11:29 AM:

" Obama was already here a couple of years ago, Clueless Joe. Don't tell me you missed him? "

theproletariat87 wrote on Jun 13, 2009 12:58 PM:

" NeoCon, ugh, I'm probably the only person closest to socialism, quit grouping all of us "lefties" together. Just like there are plenty of factions on the right as well. Look at John McCain vs Rush Limbaugh(ones more moderately conservative the other is on the far right). Yet both are fascist.

Oh yeah group think? What you think its called when everyone stands for the pledge of allegiance at once. Or how bout everyone singing god bless america without even questioning why.

On the left.

Liberals: some regulation of the economy and a supporter of personal rights. Green Party, some of the Democratic party, environmentalist

Socialist: 1960's and 70's Labour Party in Britain.

On the top.
Libertarians: Libertarian Party(no regulation of any sort), Social Libertarians (meaning they favor distribution of wealth and regulation of the economy but hardly any restrictions on personal rights.)

Anarchist: a society running itself with out a federal entity oppressing and committing coercion on the people. These are split usually into two factions; Anarcho-Socialist or Anarcho-Capitalist.

The Bottom

Authoritarian: Complete regulation over every aspect of life. Soviet and Chinese form of Communism(which is more state capitalism). Fascism; Neo-Nazis and 1930's and 40's Nazi Germany. Also see the future of america.

The Right

Conservatism: Regulation of personal rights to protect the moral fabric of society. Hardly any if no regulation of the economy. Republican Party, Conservative party in Britain.

Reactionary: To scale back policies to whatever they may have been. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Jun 13, 2009 1:50 PM:

" Jimmy Carter was the worst president during the history of the free market, Republic of the United States of America (1783 to 2008).

However, his protege Barack Hussein Obama will soon surpass this distinction.

Under Carter inflation grew from 6% to 13%, unemployment grew to 10% while mortgage rates reached levels never seen before in America at 18%. Credit card APR rates reached as high as 22% to 25% under Carter.

His weak and "submissive" foreign policy prompted the USSR to invade, conquer, and colonize Afghanistan.

It also prompted Iranian radicals to hold Americans hostage for 444 days with at least one of those hostages being one of your neighbors from the central Illinois area.

His servile "leadership" encouraged OPEC to raise gasoline prices in '79 as well as imperiling the defense of the USA with his SALT treaty with the USSR.

His impotent leadership lead to America pulling out of the 1980 Olympics and to what Carter himself called a "malaise" in the USA.

And now since you self-loathing "elitist" simpletons have resurrected this pariah, now in the form of Barack Hussein Obama, you've given power to an arrogant, servile, obsequious, yet ignoble socialist intent upon leading America into a socialist nation of abject poverty and irrevocable insolvency.

Imposed by Obama, and at an indebtedness rate of $3.9 Billion per day, by this time next year America will be in debt $14 trillion($14,000,000,000,000).

Obama's weak and "submissive" foreign policy has prompted N. Korea to explode nuclear devices and launch missiles capable of carrying nuclear warheads. It's promoting terrorists to be released in the United States or to be pawned-off onto other countries of the world.

He's increased military capacity in Afghanistan, in a theater of operation we've already lost, so that our military is now bombing woman, children, and civilians there.

And that's the fact you cannot face about yourselves, regardless of the "groupthink" you participate in and that you will have to live with for the rest of your lives, nevertheless. " "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 13, 2009 5:54 PM:

" SAN FRANCISCO -- A federal judge says that a convicted terrorist can sue a former Bush administration lawyer for drafting the legal theories that led to his alleged torture.

The order by U.S. District Judge Jeffrey White of San Francisco is the first time an administration lawyer has been held potentially liable for the abuse of detainees.

Fox news-

Will this guy take the fall for Bush like Libby did for Cheney?

This is not good news for the Bush/Cheney legacy. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 13, 2009 6:53 PM:

" TUCSON, Ariz. - Two of three people arrested in a fatal southern Arizona home invasion had connections to a Washington state anti-illegal immigration group that conducts border watch activities in Arizona.

The Pima County sheriff said Friday that 34-year-old Jason Eugene Bush, 41-year-old Shawna Forde and 42-year-old Albert Robert Gaxiola have been charged with two counts each of first-degree murder and other charges.

The trio are alleged to have dressed as law enforcement officers and forced their way into a rural Arivaca home on May 30, wounding a woman and fatally shooting her husband and their 9-year-old daughter.

The Web site for the Minutemen American Defense lists Forde as the group's leader and Bush as its operations director. Forde is from Everett, Wash., but has recently been living in Arizona.

First a wacko right winger killed a doctor, then another opened fire in a Jewish museum and now this. The right wingers in the country appear to be in meltdown. These clowns should make Billo the clown and Sean Hannity from Fox news proud. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 14, 2009 8:51 AM:

" Excerpts from an op ed piece in todays NYT's web site-

What is this fury about? In his scant 145 days in office, the new president has not remotely matched the Bush record in deficit creation. Nor has he repealed the right to bear arms or exacerbated the wars he inherited. He has tried more than his predecessor ever did to reach across the aisle. But none of that seems to matter. A sizable minority of Americans is irrationally fearful of the fast-moving generational, cultural and racial turnover Obama embodies indeed, of the 21st century itself. That minority is now getting angrier in inverse relationship to his popularity with the vast majority of the country. Change can be frightening and traumatic, especially if its not change you can believe in.

Excellent article that details the Obama hate movement and its ties to the extreme right wing element of the Republican party. Rich analyzes the Obama hatred phenomena and shows how Fox news is fanning the fires of hatred in this country against anything that doesn't fit Australia's Rupert Murdoch's view of how things should be in the USA. "

The Question wrote on Jun 14, 2009 11:32 AM:

" Yes, Harry, the spokesman for the Minutemen told the AP, "This is not what Minutemen do."
An odd thing to say, considering the fact that they did it. "

lefty wrote on Jun 14, 2009 5:21 PM:

" Eh, it's best to not even bother with NEOCON. He is one of those black helicopter, Alex Jones listening, George Tiller's a baby killer-types.

It's best to not associate yourself with someone who has to consult far right-wing web forums to retort allegations made on JG-TC.com. "

Cognitus wrote on Jun 14, 2009 5:28 PM:

" Andres:"(3) Do you deduct the mileage on your tax return? (I mean, if you want to pay higher taxes, you know, like all liberals do, that would be one inconspicuous, low-profile way to do that, and who knows, maybe the IRS would send you another "little plate for your walls" for good measure.) "

It's none of your business, but to show you how wrong you are: NO, I don't.
deduct my mileage. So as usual you are still full of BeeeeSssss.

I purposely let my finger drift down to avoid being censored. But yes; just move your "x" finger up one step and you'll be about right. I was not angry; one can hardly be angry at an innocent child; I was just being accurately descriptive. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 14, 2009 5:56 PM:

" " Jimmy Carter was the worst president during the history of the free market, Republic of the United States of America (1783 to 2008).

From what I've been reading, Carter will have a better legacy than the prissy little Yale cheerleader will.

Take a look at Bush's numbers lately? Besides that, how many people did Carter get killed with his policies?

And I guess Clinton left Bush with an economic mess too, huh Neo? Funny that you had to go way back to Carter for your comparisons.

And hey Neo, I thought you swore off this site. What happened did they run you off those right wing nutcase sites you were trying to get others to desert this site for? "

The Question wrote on Jun 14, 2009 6:45 PM:

" Now, Harry. you know prancing little Yale cheerleaders are much tougher and more competent than naval submarine officers. LOL. "

unknownjoe wrote on Jun 14, 2009 6:59 PM:

" Come on Harry, that's the best you can do. I am sorry I missed BO when he came, but I had a previous engagement due to military service. But I am sure with all your spare time ?, you were able to be there. I feel rather flattered that you took the time to even write a response. Makes me feel all warm and liberally fuzzy inside. Thanks bunches sweet pea. "

unknownjoe wrote on Jun 14, 2009 8:01 PM:

" The saddest thing about this whole mess is that the liberal zealots who claim to be for the people, and who are in complete denial of the fact, are just as terrible Jack-Booted Thugs as the ones they claim to be against. Even more extreme in most cases. "

The Question wrote on Jun 14, 2009 9:36 PM:

" When Obama sets up a secret torture program, Clueless Joe, you be sure and let us know, okay? "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 14, 2009 10:04 PM:

" "When Obama sets up a secret torture program, Clueless Joe, you be sure and let us know, okay?"
---------

Okay TQ, I'm not Joe, but I'm letting you know:

NYT May 23 2009 - The United States is now relying heavily on foreign intelligence services to capture, interrogate and detain all but the highest-level terrorist suspects seized outside the battlefields of Iraq and Afghanistan, according to current and former American government official

-----

Bush was allowing CIA agents to capture suspects on foreign soil, but now the Obama Admin is leading foreign Intel agencies to the suspects and letting them take it from there. This keeps the torture program going, completely outside of the U.S. legal system.

Now you know, TQ. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Jun 14, 2009 11:49 PM:

" ~It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, a wonderful in the neighborhood. Could you be mine? Would you be mine? Won't you be... my neighbor?~

Hello neighbors...

Okay boys and girls let's start off with the word for the day.

The word for the day is "Obamulism".

Can you say Obamulism for me boys and girls?

"O-b-a-m-u-l-i-s-m"

Thank you boys and girls. I knew you could.

Okay boys and girls, let's define OBAMULISM so you can tell your mom and dads you know what OBAMULISM is.

"OBAMULISM" - a socioeconomic structure and political ideology that promotes the establishment of an egalitarian society based on state ownership of industry and capital, and where ownership and control means control of production and property in general. It requires and demands "GROUPTHINK" where everyone adheres to party policy and where the mainstream print and television media actively promotes your socio-economic-political agenda. To be outside of "GROUPTHINK" means to be hated and hopefully destroyed by "GROUPTHINK" members, at all costs. It is a system where "no standard" is the standard for GROUPTHINK members. IF you are outside of "GROUPTHINK" though you can be judged as harshly as possible by GROUPTHINK members according to any standard GROUPTHINK members impose.

Can you give me examples of OBAMULISM, boys and girls? I bet you can...

Yeah, it's when somebody that's not even American like George Soros gives millions of dollars to dozens of "front groups" like MoveOn.org, SEIU, and ACORN to get your candidate elected. And it's when you dictate how much people can make, unless you are a union boss, and what a company can manufacture.

Very good. Can someone else give me an example of OBAMULISM?

Oh-oh-oh, I can, I can....

Okay go ahead...

OBAMULISM is when you have one party rule.

Very good. Can anyone else, boys and girls, give me an example of OBAMULISM.

Yeah, its when you appoint dozens of Czars (Russian for "kings"), accountable to no government branch, to dictate every part of life to citizens because citizens are too dumb to problem-solve and make their own choices.

It's also when you print TRILLIONS of dollars to pay back the UAW and crooked Wall Street bankers that helped get you elected. It's when you put the COUNTRY SO FAR IN DEBT, in a matter of months, that it eventually prompts rampant inflation crippling GDP growth for decades to come. It's when you want to give tax money to people that don't pay taxes. It's when you drive more jobs away from your economy than at any other time in history!

Okay, can we have another example of OBAMULISM, boys and girls?

It's when you go to overseas countries and you bow down before Emirs, Shahs, and Dictators apologizing to them telling them your country is so BBBAAAAADDDD.

It's also when you send your Treasury Secretary to China and the crowd in China laughs in his face for what he says about America's "solid" financial state. It's when you talk to your enemies allowing them or their terrorist friends to develop nuclear weapons to bomb you because you are sssssoooo BBBBBBAAAAAADDDDD.

What a bright group, I see we can go all day long on defining OBAMULISM, can't we boys and girls?

What else is OBAMULISM?

OBAMULISM is when, to get elected, YOU SAY that our troops are bombing women, children, and civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan and then after you get elected YOU DO bomb women, children, and civilians in not only Afghanistan BUT IN PAKISTAN too! It's also when you DON'T ALLOW INTERROGATIONS so that enemies can attack your homeland too!

Boy-on-boy, what a smart group. What else is OBAMULISM?

OBAMULISM is when you can make fun of and insinute sexual violence upon an opposition presidential candidate's minor family member because they are outside of GROUPTHINK. And OBAMULISM is where you can call somebody a HATER or PHOBIC for espousing Christian principles outside of GROUPTHINK.

OKAY boys and girls, we only have time for one more example of OBAMULISM...who's next?

Oh-oh-oh...OBAMULISM is when you say you won't raise taxes but then you raises taxs through schemes like energy CAP AND TRADE that will cost average American's $1000's toward heating and cooling their homes every year.

Okay boys and girls that's all for today.
Come back tomorrow for the word of the day. That word will be...FAILURE.

~It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood, a wonderful in the neighborhood. Toot...toot!~ "

what wrote on Jun 15, 2009 12:25 AM:

" The Iranian people are in an uproar concernig the viabilty of their democracy. Could the change of leadership in the USA have anything to do with that? Dead ends are a sorry stupid option. The audacity of them. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 15, 2009 6:53 AM:

" Hey TQ, if you're like me, you knew that Cybil would eventually just have to jump back onto the political threads. Hiding out on the religious threads and playing the religious card didn't last too long, did it? "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 15, 2009 7:09 AM:

" Bush was allowing CIA agents to capture suspects on foreign soil, but now the Obama Admin is leading foreign Intel agencies to the suspects and letting them take it from there. This keeps the torture program going, completely outside of the U.S. legal system.

What part of the NYT's article talked about torture? Your response seems to be based on some assumptions, Cybil. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 15, 2009 7:22 AM:

" Apparently Neo is a big fan of Mr Roger's neighborhood show. I have to wonder if he's also into the Teletubby show too. Now we know where he was at we he swore of the site for a few weeks, probably catching up on his recorded PBS shows. And we thought right wingers hated PBS. "

The Question wrote on Jun 15, 2009 7:31 AM:

" Yes, Harry. Sybil needs to go on another one of her rants about how everyone else here is hiding behind multiple identities. These right wingers are slaves to psychological projection.
I just can't wait for yet another new ID to pop up with that transparent bit about, "I've never posted here before, but I've been lurking without saying anything for years and I have been shocked, shocked by Harry, Father Bob, the Question, blah, blah, blah." "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 15, 2009 7:49 AM:

" UnknownJoe zealots/fanatics on either end of the spectrum are BAD, "jack booted thugs" as you call them. It doesn't matter if they are liberals, conservatives, Christian, Islamic, Jewish,White supremacists,...... The tragedy is that those in the middle (the quiet multitudes) get tarred by the same brush as those on the extremes,(the loud, in your face, always in the news extremeists). Those in the middle need to find their voice, their courage, their willpower and start speaking up. "

lefty wrote on Jun 15, 2009 8:11 AM:

" NEOCON is at it again. On one hand he claims that anyone left of center is a sap, falling under the spell of "GROUPTHINK," then NEOCON writes...

"Yeah, it's when somebody that's not even American like George Soros gives millions of dollars to dozens of "front groups" like MoveOn.org, SEIU, and ACORN to get your candidate elected. And it's when you dictate how much people can make, unless you are a union boss, and what a company can manufacture."

I thought you were against GROUPTHINK, bright-boy? However this line of thinking is a standard right-wing talking points (groupthink). Coulter, Hannity, Limbaugh, O'Reilly, and an assortment of other right-wing hate groups.

Keep discrediting yourself, you lil brown-shirt, you!

One day... ONE DAY... perhaps you will think for yourself. "

The Question wrote on Jun 15, 2009 8:41 AM:

" Bill O'Reilly repeatedly criticizes rappers, claiming that their music exercises an evil influence on society. A top-selling rap record sells a million copies.
But O'Reilly also repeatedly calls Dr. Tiller a murderer and baby killer before an audience of approximately TWO MILLION A NIGHT, FIVE NIGHTS A WEEK. And yet he takes no responsibility for armed right-wing nutjobs who murder the specific abortion provider whose forehead he has painted with a bullseye. "

Tom Andres wrote on Jun 15, 2009 9:05 AM:

" NeoCon Academician, absolutely the best post, perhaps the best of the whole year! "Obamulism", hilarious!

The only complaint I have is that you insist on using a pseudonym. You owe it to the rest of us to identify yourself. LOL, what are you afraid of, that you'll be tapped to run for office? "

Becky wrote on Jun 15, 2009 9:37 AM:

" Joe said: "You can all sit on the couch and watch a private viewing of "Steel Magnolias" sharing a box of tissues"

What the heck???? "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 15, 2009 9:52 AM:

" " Joe said: "You can all sit on the couch and watch a private viewing of "Steel Magnolias" sharing a box of tissues"

What the heck???? "

I suspect Joe was projecting, Becky. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Jun 15, 2009 9:56 AM:

" LOL that was funny as all get out Neo. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 15, 2009 10:10 AM:

" And yet he takes no responsibility for armed right-wing nutjobs who murder the specific abortion provider whose forehead he has painted with a bullseye. "

Excellent observation, TQ. This is the sort of thing you point out so well and the right wingers won't react to. They can't, because they know it's the truth.

Andres typical reaction to any thing he can't refute is to simply ignore it or start whining about pseudonyms. I see he's even complaining about one of his fellow right wingers not using his real name. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 15, 2009 11:17 AM:

" I see one of this sites regular right wing posters got his picture in the paper today. (don't worry, I won't out you) lol! "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 15, 2009 11:30 AM:

" (AP) CIA Director Leon Panetta says former Vice President Dick Cheney's criticism of the Obama administration's approach to terrorism almost suggests "he's wishing that this country would be attacked again, in order to make his point."

Panetta told The New Yorker for an article in its June 22 issue that Cheney "smells some blood in the water" on the issue of national security.

And yet this clown has his loyal fans. Is it any wonder that many so folks think he's the worst VP in history? A large percentage those willing to admit they are Republicans (only about 20 percent of the country now) see him as the spokesman for his party. Him and Rush Limbaugh, what a pair of great Americans. "

theproletariat87 wrote on Jun 15, 2009 11:56 AM:

" Neocon you think your precious "free market" is at stake now? Wait until the overthrow. Wait until when the lower and middle classes rise to take over this elitist, fascist-state capitalist ran country. Bush or Obama its all the same.

NeoCon You say that we all are influenced by some 1984 style of "group-think"? What do you call after 9-11 when the call by the government to turn in any "suspicious" activity? What do you call it when people accuse people of terrorism or being unpatriotic because they didn't have an American flag out their window, pinned to their chest? Yet another one: how bout 1950's where McCarthy and his secret police arrested or fired so called "pinkos" without any actual proof of being a "communist sympathizer".

Now economically lets look at how an unregulated free market looks like. Well, an obvious one is the current economic climate brought by deregulation during the 90's then further by the bush adminstration. Another is America during the 1800's, Giant monopolies, children working in mines, women loosing body parts on the loom. Horrible conditions, 12-14 hour work days sometimes 18 hour work days. My last statement is Hoovers economic policies of deregulation and lower tariffs helped put the foot on the accelerator leading to the great depression. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 15, 2009 12:05 PM:

" "What part of the NYT's article talked about torture? Your response seems to be based on some assumptions, Cybil."
--------

Cybil? Sybil?

Obviously my post ruffled some feathers. I'm sorry you feel the need to respond to me with frivolous accusations that have nothing to do with the topic at hand. Let us conduct ourselves as adults, shall we?

Mr Potter, the purpose of the extraordinary rendition program in question, is to extract information from terrorist suspects by means that could be considered illegal in the U.S. That is why the suspects are interrogated on foreign soil. That is why President Obama has opted to use foreign Intel sources for the initial capture. That is why President Bush was criticized for his expansion of this program.

Did you read the entire NYT article Mr Potter? Did you miss this point:

NYT May 23 2009- As a safeguard against torture, Mr. Panetta said, the United States would rely on diplomatic assurances of good treatment. The Bush administration sought the same assurances, which critics say are ineffective.
----------

But of course, Mr Potter, I am willing to listen to any counter-evidence that demonstrates that this program was not engaging in enhanced interrogations during the Bush Admin, or that President Obama has ended these practices. Which would lead to the most obvious question, Mr Potter; why aren't the suspects immediately brought back to the U.S.? "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 15, 2009 12:20 PM:

" Regarding the Palin/Letterman controversy:

Rush Limbaugh: "Everyone knows the Clintons have a cat. Socks is the White House cat. But did you know there is a White House dog?" Limbaugh put up a picture of Chelsea Clinton. At the time, Chelsea Clinton was 13 years old. Rush also said, "In last year's campaign, the most prominent, articulate voice for standard run-of-the-mill good old-fashioned American conservatism was Sarah Palin." Calling a young teenager a "dog" can't be helpful to her "self-esteem." Where is the apology from the leader of the GOP?

"Why is Chelsea Clinton so ugly? Because her father is Janet Reno."--John McCain, Sarah Palin's running mate. Should McCain apologize to every young woman in America?

Palin's friend, political defender and informer of the David Letterman comments, John Ziegler, was fired from his radio show for using the "n-word" online and on air in 1997. In 2000, he was fired for spelling the "n-word" on the air. How much does that word affect the psychological health of America's youth, regardless of their race? Now he is pimping his film about how mean the "liberal media" was to Sarah Palin.

So now Fox runs a poll as to whether or not Letterman should apologise to Palin. Where was Fox when McCain, Limbaugh and Ziegler made equally offensive comments? Typical conservative hypocrisy. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 15, 2009 12:30 PM:

" To show there's no hard feelings, I dedicate this joke to our friend, Tom Andres:

What's the difference between liberals and conservatives?

A liberal wins the lottery and throws a party.

A conservative wins the lottery and complains that he has to pay taxes on it.

No need to reciprocate, Tom. We've all heard the quality of your jokes. lol! "

Tom Andres wrote on Jun 15, 2009 12:31 PM:

" Harry, my boy, just because I don't waste my time refuting all the liberal fanatical fantasies on here does not mean your side has it right. You know, except for God's love for us, there are limits to everything. My time is too limited to address every error you make. Ill just have to leave you un-corrected on some issues. Sorry.

The reason I would ask NeoCon Academician to identify himself or herself is to heap accolades. The reason I would ask your folks to identify is for quite a different reason. LOL. "

Billie Brant wrote on Jun 15, 2009 1:06 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Jun 15, 2009 7:49 AM:

" UnknownJoe zealots/fanatics on either end of the spectrum are BAD, "jack booted thugs" as you call them. It doesn't matter if they are liberals, conservatives, Christian, Islamic, Jewish,White supremacists,...... The tragedy is that those in the middle (the quiet multitudes) get tarred by the same brush as those on the extremes,(the loud, in your face, always in the news extremists). Those in the middle need to find their voice, their courage, their willpower and start speaking up. "

Susan, I agree with you all the way on this! Can you believe it (smile)?

These warped thugs who killed Dr Tiller and the security guard at the museum were lone wolfs acting alone. NO ONE forced them to pull the triggers on their weapons.

As far as the nut-job who killed the guard, he had been a hater for most of his life. He hated both the right and the left. He hated everything and everyone who didn't think as he did. He was full of hate just as the EXTREME Fred Phelps and his Westboro Baptist Church members are today. No bonefide Christian goes along with "The Phreaks". I certainly don't! I've campaigned agaist them for years!

The kook who killed Dr. Tiller was denounced by many right to life groups. I'm a
pro-lifer" as you well know, but I do not condone the murder of the doctor and neither do the majority of us that have a "pro-life" stance. That's "painting" us all with the same brush as you suggested tends to happen.

In no way do I believe that everyone who leans toward the left are extremists. I would hope that those who do lean left who really know me or don't for that matter, think that I was responsible for Dr. Tillers murder or the the guards death. I don't hold all of those on the left responsible for Bill Ayer's terrorist acts or others who do these kinds of things. Bill Ayers and his group of thugs are the ones responsible for their acts.

I do have one little concern though, why did it take three days for President Obama to comment on the death of the American soldier the radical Islamist murdered. He immediately made comments within hours of these horrible acts denouncing the killings of Dr Tiller and the security guard as he should have. Why didn't an American soldier killed by an extremist rate the same timely consideration? Three days seems a little long to wait for a denouncement to me. "

lefty wrote on Jun 15, 2009 2:18 PM:

" THEPROLETARIAT87, are you insane?! There will be no overthrow of this government by anyone.

And BILLIE BRANT, ya, thas right Obama is a secret Muslim. *eye roll* "

Billie Brant wrote on Jun 15, 2009 3:32 PM:

" Oh yeah lefty! I accused him of being a secret Muslim( Serious eyeroll)! Get real for Pete's sake! It was an observation nothing else. I don't think I was out of line as to question why it took so long. After all he goes on and on about he respects our military, so why didn't he stand up for this murdered soldier quicker than he did? I think it's a legitimate question. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 15, 2009 4:30 PM:

" According to your standard, Question, your relentless criticisms of the U.S. military's "crimes" against the Muslim world, has made you morally responsible for the recent murder of a military recruiter and the critical injury of another at the hands of Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, a Muslim from Yemen. "

Rockin Rotty wrote on Jun 15, 2009 4:32 PM:

" lefty wrote on Jun 15, 2009 2:18 PM:

"And BILLIE BRANT, ya, thas right Obama is a secret Muslim. *eye roll*"

.......

lefty's post is further proof of what Susan posted earlier about being painted with that broad brush.

lefty, it's time to raise your brush out of the muck, & open up a new can.

*eye roll* "

Rockin Rotty wrote on Jun 15, 2009 4:46 PM:

" Oh yeah, one other thing....

lefty, talk about "discrediting yourself".

LOL! "

lefty wrote on Jun 15, 2009 10:48 PM:

" Oh poor BILLIE BRANT. Let's be clear, you didn't ask "why didn't he (Obama) stand up for this murdered soldier quicker than he did?"

BILLIE BRANT asked "I do have one little concern though, why did it take three days for President Obama to comment on the death of the American soldier the radical Islamist murdered. Why didn't an American soldier killed by an extremist rate the same timely consideration? Three days seems a little long to wait for a denouncement to me. "

Why the emphasis on radical Islamist? You ranted about how we need to find this middle ground and stop labeling, yet in this instance you emphasized "radical Islamist."

I thought you, SUSAN, and ROCKIN ROTTY were opposed to such labeling?

I love right-wingers... they claim to be such fighters, but are always so quick to play the victim. "

what? wrote on Jun 15, 2009 11:23 PM:

" Republicans, democrats, kindle the fire, place upon the altar what what you will, a pleasing odor? "

dstew66 wrote on Jun 15, 2009 11:38 PM:

" lefty wrote on Jun 15, 2009 2:18 PM:

"ya, thas right Obama is a secret Muslim. *eye roll* "

That's not a secret. "

XTownie wrote on Jun 16, 2009 2:49 AM:

" In a half century, I have yet to see the RepubliCONS be the "good guys". "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 16, 2009 7:59 AM:

" Xtownie I like your spelling. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 16, 2009 8:00 AM:

" Now I wonder what will the other side come up with? Deomocra_s? "

The Question wrote on Jun 16, 2009 8:05 AM:

" Republicans should beware of Twitter, since it can reveal what they really think, and that will never do.
For example, GOP operative Mike Green posted a racist joke about President Obama on his Twitter account over the weekend, and was forced to apologize.
Green posted this, then deleted it later:
JUST HEARD OBAMA IS GOING TO IMPOSE A 40% TAX ON ASPIRIN BECAUSE IT'S WHITE AND IT WORK.
I find the remark funny myself, now that the Republican's nose has been rubbed in the bigoted mess he left on the carpet. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 16, 2009 8:09 AM:

" Billie the reason I made the statement is that the vast majority don't seem to realize that "silence becomes complicity"(looking the otherway, pretending something didn't happen, rewriting history or science to tell a story more to your liking, saying it is none of my business,leaving it to others to decide.) Silence is as much a part of the problems this world faces as the extremist inyourface radicals are on the extremes. "

Billie Brant wrote on Jun 16, 2009 8:51 AM:

" Lefty- Radical Islamist? The man was a terrorist who killed an AMERICAN soldier on American soil! He then BRAGGED it was justified? What else would YOU call him? No buddy, I "ain't" apologizing for that one! He is what he is, a radical Islamic terrorist.!Just what would you call him? A freedom fighter?

I don't see anything in Susan's post that was against labeling when it's called for as she said---- "UnknownJoe zealots/fanatics on either end of the spectrum are BAD, "jack booted thugs" as you call them. It doesn't matter if they are liberals, conservatives, Christian, Islamic, Jewish,White supremacists,...... The tragedy is that those in the middle (the quiet multitudes) get tarred by the same brush as those on the extremes,(the loud, in your face, always in the news extremists).

As far as that goes, what's up with this "right-winger" label you throw out there? Have not you labeled yourself as a "lefty"? I said NOTHING about labeling. After all, what are you supposd to say when describing something OR someone? What I said in essence WAS,don't put everyone in the same boat for the actions of a few. That applies to folks on "your side" as well as "mine".

So lefty, old buddy, the guy who KILLED the soldier,remains a radical, unapologetic Islamic terrorist! What's that old saying---- "A rose by any other name is still a rose". The same holds true for this guy, but a rose he "ain't". "

Billie Brant wrote on Jun 16, 2009 8:57 AM:

" Agreed Susan. Hey! That's twice we've seen things pretty much in the same light in a couple of days. Who'd "a-thunk" it? :-)

We may not agree on all of the same issues, but I don't think anyone has to worry about us being silent. :-) "

The Question wrote on Jun 16, 2009 9:07 AM:

" Republicans betrayed by their own mouths, Part II.
South Carolina GOP activist and former chairman of the state elections commission Rusty DePass has apologized for saying a gorilla that escaped from a zoo was an "ancestor" of Michelle Obama.
DePass made the comment on Facebook. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Jun 16, 2009 9:14 AM:

" Obamulism - When the media and government become one, on the night of June 24, 2009 as ABC turns over its programming to Obama and Obamulist White House officials to push GOVERNMENT HEALTH CARE. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Jun 16, 2009 9:17 AM:

" Obamulism - When Obamulists like David Letterman learn how to perform "mea culpa" from GOP operatives like Mike Green. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 16, 2009 1:29 PM:

" Letterman apologises to Palin and yet Fox news wants more. Today their poll is asking if his apology is enough. Good grief!

No outrage from the fair and balanced folks over a Republican governor calling Obama's wife is a gorilla, or over another GOP operative releasing a e-mail depicting Obama in an 1940's style racist characachure picture. That outfit has no shame. "

The Question wrote on Jun 16, 2009 4:34 PM:

" Let's see Palin strut some more of her fancy Victim Pageant walkin'. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Jun 16, 2009 9:07 PM:

" Obamulism - attacking victims according to GROUPTHINK standards with prose like "strut some more of her fancy Victim Pageant walkin'". "

lefty wrote on Jun 16, 2009 10:38 PM:

" Everyone, lookit NEOCON, he "created" a word! What an academic...

I got one... NEOCON is a gynormous choad. "

julio wrote on Jun 16, 2009 10:43 PM:

" The Republicans have been masters of getting the common man to fight for their cause.
The cause of lineing the pockets of the mega rich and extreamly well connected. "

unknownjoe wrote on Jun 16, 2009 10:48 PM:

" Let us take a moment away from our bantering and our throwing of fiery darts to stand in solidarity with the Iranians who have hit the streets and are truly standing toe-to-toe at the barricades with "The Jack Booted Thugs.
" We will most likely never see what is truly happening there. Most if not all communication has been cut off to the world. Some will pay the ulitimate sacrifice for what they believe. It reminds me of Tianamen Square. The student standing in the path of the tank, toe-to-toe. Not budging out of it's path. It also reminds me of Boris Yeltsin, standing at the Russian White house, standing down the attempted Coup over Gorbachev. We take for granted many of the freedoms we still have in this country. Could any of us be as bold as they? "

The Question wrote on Jun 17, 2009 8:25 AM:

" I've have come to realize that Sarah Palin has ONLY her victimhood to sustain her. That's it. That's her whole game -- whining incoherently that she's a poor victimized Bible thumper or conservative or mommy, and complaining in that offensively nasal voice of hers that the awful gummit is out to get her and her dimwitted fans (as if she's somehow NOT the governor of a state).
John W. Gardner said, "Self pity is easily the most destructive of the nonpharmaceutical narcotics; it is addictive, gives momentary pleasure and separates the victim from reality."
If Obama was the Candidate of Hope, Palin is clearly the Candidate of Self Pity. "

father bob wrote on Jun 17, 2009 8:49 AM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Jun 16, 2009 1:29 PM:
" Letterman apologises to Palin and yet Fox news wants more. Today their poll is asking if his apology is enough. Good grief!

No outrage from the fair and balanced folks over a Republican governor calling Obama's wife is a gorilla, or over another GOP operative releasing a e-mail depicting Obama in an 1940's style racist characachure picture. That outfit has no shame. """""

they need to focus on billo's apology and resignation for ginning up the george tiller murder. "

father bob wrote on Jun 17, 2009 8:55 AM:

" lefty wrote on Jun 16, 2009 10:38 PM:
" Everyone, lookit NEOCON, he "created" a word! What an academic...

i think it's a she..... "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 17, 2009 9:07 AM:

" ABC News Rick Klein reports: Sen. John Ensign -- a rising Republican star who has been discussed as a possible 2012 presidential candidate -- is poised to announce that he had a consensual affair with a campaign staff member whose husband worked in his Senate office, a Republican official tells ABC News.

Another potential GOP (the family values party) candidate goes down on a Newt Gingrich type morals issue. This clown was one of the most vocal critics of Clinton over his affair. Looks like the field for 2012 is narrowing.

Palin is probably rubbing her greasy paws together over this one. Hang in there Sarah, the competition is dropping like flies.

If this amoral slug was a Democrat Fox news would be running features on it for weeks. As it is, they won't be doing any in depth reporting on it. They only do feature stories when the subject is a member of the Democratic party. "

The Question wrote on Jun 17, 2009 10:47 AM:

" Palin is the very personification of painfully and willfully ignorant people's resentment of their intellectual betters. "

lefty wrote on Jun 17, 2009 11:05 AM:

" Thanks FATHER BOB. Let me correct myself...

"Everyone, lookit NEOCON, she "created" a word! What an academic...

I got one... NEOCON is a gynormous choad. "

theproletariat87 wrote on Jun 17, 2009 11:18 AM:

" Since the revolution will happen, whether or not it will happen in the next 8 years or 20, then I guess I'm insane. People will either make it happen before before the complete enslavement or die trying. "

The Question wrote on Jun 17, 2009 1:32 PM:

" CNN says FutureGen is now the No. 1 target for the Republican critics of the Obama administration. Say, just HOW MANY times do you Republicans plan to kill FutureGen, anyway? LOL. "

The Question wrote on Jun 17, 2009 1:35 PM:

" Now Harry, you know that marriage is only "sacred, sacred, sacred" for Republicans when it can be used to punish gay people. Otherwise, it's let's toss the trousers and have at it. "

The Question wrote on Jun 17, 2009 2:28 PM:

" Hey, Mattoon Republicans. GOP political football isn't such a fun game to play when you're the little ball getting kicked around, is it? "

Stanley Stetson wrote on Jun 17, 2009 4:12 PM:

" * hey mattoon, democrats * being lame liberals isn't such a fun game to play when you know futuregen is going to be built anyway, is it * obamulism: lame liberals who will soon be tossing their trousers, amoungst other things, and having at it in a group(think) * "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 17, 2009 5:13 PM:

" " CNN says FutureGen is now the No. 1 target for the Republican critics of the Obama administration. Say, just HOW MANY times do you Republicans plan to kill FutureGen, anyway? LOL. "

Looks like the GOP finally got one right, TQ. Watch the Repubs on this site try to rationalize it. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 17, 2009 5:15 PM:

" Stanley Stetson wrote on Jun 17, 2009 4:12 PM:

" * hey mattoon, democrats * being lame liberals isn't such a fun game to play when you know futuregen is going to be built anyway, is it * obamulism: lame liberals who will soon be tossing their trousers, amoungst other things, and having at it in a group(think) * "

Did Ms Neo forget and log on as Stanley this time? "

The Question wrote on Jun 17, 2009 5:40 PM:

" This should be interesting, Harry. The Republican Party propaganda puppets at Fox News will have gotten their marching orders to attack FutureGen by now. That ought to give our local Fox News zombies the experience of some cognitive dissonance. They aren't good with contradiction, because that requires thinking. LOL.
Almost makes me want to watch Fox News tonight. But I'd rather keep my dinner down. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 17, 2009 7:26 PM:

" Of course Fox news is fair and balanced. Just because their leader, Roger Ailes produced Oxyboy Limbaugh's failed TV show doesn't prove a thing. Just because Ailes worked on about every Republican presidential campaign since Nixon doesn't prove anything either. Remember they report and we decide. wink wink! "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 17, 2009 7:35 PM:

" Watch for some upcoming specials on Fox regarding FutureGen, TQ. Maybe they will send one of their fair and balanced commentators here. Our friend Tom Andres will no doubt get in line for an autograph. "

The Question wrote on Jun 17, 2009 7:55 PM:

" Harry, as you know, legitimate reporters don't call themselves "fair and balanced" because those qualities are simply basic elements of their professional makeup.
Fox News' constant use of the phrase always reminds me of Emerson: "The louder he talked of his honor, the faster we counted our spoons." "

lefty wrote on Jun 17, 2009 8:48 PM:

" Here is a funny... the right wingers on this site complain that Obama and his supporters are 'group-thinkers." Yet one of em makes up a word, and the rest of them reuse it.

Ya, clearly group-think is a problem of Obama supporters. Wankers. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 17, 2009 8:56 PM:

" I don't have a problem with the right wingers having their own news network, TQ. My problem is their claim to being fair and balanced. I think a person would have to be pretty stupid to buy that line. But then... "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 17, 2009 9:16 PM:

" I see where Bush is going to address a group of businessmen in Pennsylvania. Wonder what he's going to talk about? From what I've read Bush Bankrupted every business he ever ran, of course this was before the Supreme court put him in charge of the country. Wait, he bankrupted the country too. Maybe he's going to talk about filing for bankruptcy. "

unknownjoe wrote on Jun 18, 2009 12:07 AM:

" Harry, TQ, you need to find a significant other, really! They may be able to help you with all of your pent up primal carnal anger. It appears that at some point in your lives, you must have had your hearts broken by someone who was swept away by, you know, some GOP person. You know the kind. Someone with a career, talent, direction in their life. You sit alone wondering why the person that you were so enamored with chose moving ahead with their lives, instead of recycling cans and cardboard and eating intimate mac-n-cheese dinners with you while watching pledge night on PBS. So now is your time for revenge, you sit at home, alone at the keyboard rattling off your venomous scrapings in an attempt to affect revenge upon the people that stole your hearts desire. Well my friends, what a lonely and terrible existence you must lead. It seems that all you have to look forward to in your day is cuddling up to the ole pc, reading the huffington post, and then regurgitating verbatim the party line in here. I picture Gollem at the keys, eyes fixated on the O, saying "what do have for me today my precious." We all know what happened to Gollem in the end. So, I say, take a step out of the box. Pry your fingers from the keyboard and get out there and find yourself someone before it's too late. "

The Question wrote on Jun 18, 2009 8:24 AM:

" Those poor, poor victimized Republicans. Yesterday, Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-MI) compared the oppression of the Iranian protesters to the terrible plight of minority party congressional Republicans.
Hoekstra's tragic ordeal has inspired people around the world.
"I got a splinter in my hand today," one person said. "Felt just like Jesus getting nailed to the cross."
"Pete Hoekstra ran through the sprinklers this morning, claimed solidarity with victims of Hurricane Katrina," another said.
"I spilled some lukewarm coffee on myself just now, which is somewhat analogous to being boiled in oil."
"Walked out onto Constitution Ave in D.C. and was almost hit by a taxi. Reminded me of Tienanmen Square."
"Someone walked in on me while I was in the bathroom. Reminded me of Pearl Harbor."
"I stand in solidarity with the oppressed, rich white men of the Republican Party in the House!" "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 18, 2009 9:01 AM:

" I'm happy to see that my posts are getting to you, joe. Whenever I can elicit that kind of response from a right leaning no nothing doofus, I've accomplished what I set out to. Stay tuned I have more goodies for you and your ilk.
So you read the Huffington site too? I have to say it's refreshing to see a right winger that checks out anything other than Fox news. You better be careful or you might incur the wrath of your fellow right wingers for that heresy.

By the way, I see that Bush has gone on the attack against Obama. I guess that makes him unAmerican, huh? That's what your hero said. Remember that the war profiteering and torture advocate Cheney said it was unpatriotic and unAmerican to speak out against an administration during a time of war. Looks like Cheney's words have come back to haunt him.

I noticed that you save your nonsensical responses for only Liberals, so I guess that means all the right wingers are safe from your complaints.

The lifestyle you described seems a bit too familiar to you, a little projection on your part?

I suspect that's the best you can do, but keep it up, I'm sure that with a little practice you will be able to come up with something that's actually coherent and won't make you look like such a disgruntled loser. "

Billie Brant wrote on Jun 18, 2009 9:21 AM:

" How about a little chuckle to start the day folks.

The "PETA POLICE" have struck again! Check out this latest lunacy after seeing President Obama swatting a pesky fly while being interviewed.

The following is taken from an AP news story..."PETA is sending President Barack Obama a Katcha Bug Humane Bug Catcher, a device that allows users to trap a house fly and then release it outside.

"We support compassion even for the most curious, smallest and least sympathetic animals," PETA spokesman Bruce Friedrich said Wednesday. "We believe that people, where they can be compassionate, should be, for all animals."

Friedrich said that PETA was pleased with Obama's voting record in the Senate on behalf of animal rights and noted that he has been outspoken against animal abuses.

Still, "swatting a fly on TV indicates he's not perfect," Friedrich said, "and we're happy to say that we wish he hadn't."...Sorry PETA, I'm with the president on this one!:-)

Now as an animal lover, I believe we should treat animals humanely, but I draw the line at worrying about flies! Don't these kooks realize these nasty critters spread diseases as do mosquitoes? Yeah I know, they provide food for birds , but I don't think we're in danger of putting flies or mosquitoes on the "endangered species" list. Also I'm not willing to give up wearing wool sweaters and coats in the winter, leather shoes and coats, and since I'm an omnivore and eat both meat and potatoes, I "ain't" givin up my steak (if I can afford it, lol!) either.

What's next from these folks? Are they going to take our potatoes too because after all they are living things also and might "feel" pain as they are being harvested and peeled in preparation for the cooking pot. Oh the horror of it all when we put them in the oven or boiling water!

I would issue a warning to the PETA nuts who carry spray paint cans and "hit" folks who wear animal clothing. You may not like where that can might be placed on your person if you foolishly decide to decorate my leather jacket. It may have to be removed surgically and there's not much sunshine there either! LOL!

It's time to get out our PETA shirts folks which also says in translation---- "People Eating Tasty Animals" "

Billie Brant wrote on Jun 18, 2009 9:28 AM:

" Hey lefty! Are you a Brit or an Aussie? The little pet name you used at the end of your post is one used in both countries. Just curious. :-)

lefty wrote on Jun 17, 2009 8:48 PM:

" Here is a funny... the right wingers on this site complain that Obama and his supporters are 'group-thinkers." Yet one of em makes up a word, and the rest of them reuse it.

Ya, clearly group-think is a problem of Obama supporters. Wankers. " "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 18, 2009 9:35 AM:

" Thanks Billie, that was a good one to start the day off. "

father bob wrote on Jun 18, 2009 9:46 AM:

" The Question wrote on Jun 18, 2009 8:24 AM:
" Those poor, poor victimized Republicans. Yesterday, Rep. Peter Hoekstra (R-MI) compared the oppression of the Iranian protesters to the terrible plight of minority party congressional Republicans.
Hoekstra's tragic ordeal has inspired people around the world.
"I got a splinter in my hand today," one person said. "Felt just like Jesus getting nailed to the cross."
"Pete Hoekstra ran through the sprinklers this morning, claimed solidarity with victims of Hurricane Katrina," another said.
"I spilled some lukewarm coffee on myself just now, which is somewhat analogous to being boiled in oil."
"Walked out onto Constitution Ave in D.C. and was almost hit by a taxi. Reminded me of Tienanmen Square."
"Someone walked in on me while I was in the bathroom. Reminded me of Pearl Harbor."
"I stand in solidarity with the oppressed, rich white men of the Republican Party in the House!" """""

ROFLMAO!!!.......the post of the day! "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 18, 2009 9:47 AM:

" This one is dedicated to my fan, unknownjoe:

Twice this week Republican activists have apologized for racist humor. How about that, joe? "

The Question wrote on Jun 18, 2009 9:49 AM:

" Given all the sordid little sex scandals in the "Family Values Party," I suggest the Republicans need a new motto.
They should go with, "The party that preys together strays together." "

father bob wrote on Jun 18, 2009 9:52 AM:

" i see monkey boy the rodeo clown and PETA have both condemned the president.

for the fly killing.....and for..um...er..
what was that again?

i guess it explains so many traffic accidents. those PETA members driving down the road wailing and dodging to keep the bugs off their windshields...

there is NO explanation for goober the clown....guess he needs to stay in texas and help prepare secession documents. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 18, 2009 9:52 AM:

" It's now a fact. A former Fox executive has disclosed that upper management issues a daily memo to all reporters with instructions to work Republican talking points into their broadcasts. Fair and balanced, right Tom?

And this for the hard news broadcasts not the commentaries.

Let's be honest here, Fox is nothing more than a sleazy PR outlet for the GOP. "

unknownjoe wrote on Jun 18, 2009 11:05 AM:

" Well Harry, my statements must have been coherent enough and accurate enough to elicite such a dull response. But keep it up, you may at some point say something that doesn't make you appear such a lonely and disconnected person. Now Hug Your PC and give it some flowers. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 18, 2009 11:51 AM:

" Again joe, thanks for making my day. lol! "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 18, 2009 12:30 PM:

" Billie I also enjoyed your am post, PETA is one of those extremeist groups I was thinking about. What will the save the potato group be called? VETA? When we self destruct in a nuclear armegeddon it will be those tough little insects that survive (though maybe in monstrous form if you believe the horror movies). "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 18, 2009 12:31 PM:

" Oh I just had an idea "Save a Potato" SAP! "

Billie Brant wrote on Jun 18, 2009 3:04 PM:

" Should we have T-shirts made up Susan? LOL!

I sent a T-shirt to my daughter who lives in Oregon where "tree huggers" are almost a religion unto themselves.

It read:
Save a Tree Wipe Your A-- With An Owl

Of course there weren't any letters left out. Being the feisty kid she is( wonder where she got that?) she wore it! LOL! "

Stanley Stetson wrote on Jun 18, 2009 3:22 PM:

" * overheard in a backroom deal * au gratin potatoes planning coup * "

father bob wrote on Jun 18, 2009 3:44 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Jun 18, 2009 9:52 AM:
"Let's be honest here, Fox is nothing more than a sleazy PR outlet for the GOP. """""

Fox News, Wal-Mart and Denny's....the three bastions of rightwing convervatism. "

father bob wrote on Jun 18, 2009 3:45 PM:

" conservatism too... "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 18, 2009 5:41 PM:

" I'm going to do a daily report on here about Fox. Each day I will report the number of negative Obama articles Fox is featuring on it's on line site. I will only be including the top stories at the top of their web page. Because Fox continues to update its page throughout, I may miss some, so if anything the numbers I report will be understated. I am dedicating this service to all the Fox news fans on his site. Especially my friend Tom Andres, who only watches Fox. "

The Question wrote on Jun 18, 2009 5:58 PM:

" I'll be reading with interest, Harry.
Obama told an interviewer that one channel was devoted entirely to attacking him, Fox News has been complaining about that remark ever since.
Somehow, the interviewer knew the "channel" to which Obama was referring without the president naming it. How is that possible, unless Obama's charge is true? "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 19, 2009 7:08 AM:

" ....Fox News has been complaining about that remark ever since.

I saw that, TQ. The so called news network folks from Fox were squealing like little pigs all day over that.

I guess you saw Billo the clown's reaction to getting called out for fomenting hatred towards the abortion doctor and it's results. O'Reilly actually tried to turn it around and tell his guest, who was complaining about his pot stirring, which ultimately led to the death of a leading abortion doctor, that she had blood on her hands over this. I'm still trying to figure his logic out on that one. I seriously think Billo is close to a serious breakdown. He seems to be getting more loonier by the week. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 19, 2009 8:38 AM:

" When it comes to Fox News Channel, conservatives don't feel the need to "work the ref." The ref is already on their side. Since its 1996 launch, Fox has become a central hub of the conservative movement's well-oiled media machine. Together with the GOP organization and its satellite think tanks and advocacy groups, this network of fiercely partisan outlets--such as the Washington Times, the Wall Street Journal editorial page and conservative talk-radio shows like Rush Limbaugh's--forms a highly effective right-wing echo chamber where GOP-friendly news stories can be promoted, repeated and amplified. Fox knows how to play this game better than anyone.
Seth Ackerman-

Oh yeah Tom, no bias there. They report and we decide, right? lol! "

unknownjoe wrote on Jun 19, 2009 9:20 AM:

" Harry, I am glad to see you have been appointed the Coles County Commisar on "Why Fox News Hurts My Feelings" by the O-bama administration. It sounds like it will be a good position for you. Fox News reported yesterday that two unmanned probes were launched to the moon. Why are you not reporting this? What I hear is that they are a joint venture between the CIA, Halaburton, NASA and Darth Cheney. They are a prelude to building secret terrorist interogation and torture bases on the moon. Sources say that it is the only way they can perform their dastardly deeds well out of the reach of U.S. and International Law.

PETA immediately issued a statement denouncing the bases saying, "We believe these bases to be detrimental to the natural environment of the Indigenous Population of Moonbats." This aggression will not stand.

Get right on that will ya Harry, take TQ with you, the two of you may be able to form a rather intriguing report if you put your minds together. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 19, 2009 12:58 PM:

" Glad to see your enjoying my reports, joe. Too bad that you can't really refute any thing TQ and myself says and have to resort to making stuff up. Lacking the ability to put together any kind of a coherent argument, and having to resort to personal attacks is about the best most of the right wingers on here have had to resorted to. Sadly joe, it looks like that describes you too. I'm used to that kind of thing from the right wing wacko side, so I really didn't expect anything else from you.

I'll try to help you out by giving you some possible topics.

Hey, I have an idea, maybe you could share with us why Sarah Palin would make a good president. Like a good right winger, I'm sure you could make a case for her.

If McCain had won, Sarah would join a long list of Distinguished Republicans including Agnew, Quayle and the war profiteering Dick Cheney. Sarah would have fit right in on that list of great Americans, right?

Perhaps you could make a case for how great an American Cheney is. Or how about that other Republican icon, Limbaugh.

I hope you appreciate the tutorial, joe. "

The Question wrote on Jun 19, 2009 1:04 PM:

" Since you asked nicely, Clueless Joe -- How Fox News endorses and defends every principle of fascism.

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism - Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays. (Flags image fly with vomit-inducing dizziness on Fox News).

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc. (Fox News has consistently defended the Bush-Cheney use of torture).

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people of a fascist nation are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities, liberals, communists, socialists, terrorists, etc. (Missing white women and black, Hispanic and Muslim villains are a Fox News staple).

4. Supremacy of the Military - Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized. (Fox News kisses up to the military-industrial complex daily).

5. Rampant Sexism - The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution. (What other news channel interviews Hooters girls about economics?)

6. Controlled Mass Media - Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media pundits and executives. Censorship, especially in wartime, is very common. (Fox News repeats Bush-GOP talking points verbatim and ad nauseum).

7. Obsession with National Security - Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses. (Fear is Fox News' most important product).

8. Religion and Government are intertwined - Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions. (Fox News is the very soul of vulgar fundamentalist piety).

9. Corporate Power is protected Members of the industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite. (Obvious).

10. Labor Power is suppressed - Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed. (Obvious).

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts - Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked. (Fox News targets one professor or entertainer after another for destruction, and constantly attacks the idea of intellectual independence in Hollywood or the university.)

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment - Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations (The flip side of Fox News fear-mongering).

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption - Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders. (Fox News was strangely unconcerned about Enron, the $12 billion in cash that went missing among Bush's cronies in Iraq, etc. etc. etc.)

14. Fraudulent Elections - Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections. (Remember that Fox News called Florida for Bush, deliberately and wrongly creating the impression he had won. Fox News' election night newsroom was run by Bush's cousin See Characteristic 13). "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 19, 2009 1:32 PM:

" In their battle against Obama's first Supreme Court nominee, Republicans in Congress have turned to an old hand. Ed Meese, the Reagan-era attorney general and conservative firebrand, has been playing a behind-the-scenes role in organizing GOP opposition to the nomination of Sonia Sotomayor.

Meese was hired before Sotomayor was chosen. According to the Washington Post, which broke the story, he coordinated with Republican Senators on how best to plan for the nomination.
Sam Stein-

Meese should best be know for buying up empty building around DC, in his wife's name of course, and turning around and renting them to the government at inflated prices. Typical conservative, rail against the government spending, especially helping common people but personally milking it for all they can get. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 19, 2009 3:10 PM:

" ...Fox News called Florida for Bush, deliberately and wrongly creating the impression he had won. Fox News' election night newsroom was run by Bush's cousin See Characteristic 13). "

I believe that was one of the few times they ever apologised for the misreporting, TQ. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 19, 2009 3:27 PM:

" I see Fox news is running a poll about whether the Democratic senator Boxer should apologise to the General for dressing him down. Wonder why their not running a poll to see if the GOP senator should apologise to the country for his affair with an intern? You know the same guy who called for Clinton to resign over his affair with an intern.

Those same folks, like Graham, who were hollering for Clinton's head, are rushing to defend their own adulterer. Of course Fox is remaining mute over this whole rotten mess on the part of one of their own.

Ah, those good old boys at the fair and balanced network.... "

unknownjoe wrote on Jun 19, 2009 4:01 PM:

" Thank You TQ, that's quite a long list. But I dont see anything there that hasnt been done by the Obama administration as well. Wait, I do see one difference. Instead of unfettered devotion to the state. The Obama administration works towards undying loyalty and devotion towards himself. That smells more of facism than anything that you listed in your 1400 pts. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 19, 2009 5:03 PM:

" WASHINGTON The House on Friday impeached a federal judge imprisoned for lying about sexual assaults of two women in the first such vote since impeaching former President Bill Clinton a decade ago.

The impeachment of U.S. District Judge Samuel Kent of Texas sets up a trial in the Senate. Kent is the first federal judge impeached in 20 years.

The House approved four articles of impeachment against Kent accusing him of sexually assaulting two female employees and lying to judicial investigators and Justice Department officials. All four articles passed unanimously.

For those wondering, yes he's a member of the GOP. (was there any doubt)

Sounds like this guy has the same type of illness that Bill O'Reilly from Fox news.

Another sex scandal from the family values party. lol! "

The Question wrote on Jun 19, 2009 5:24 PM:

" I believe that was one of the few times they ever apologised for the misreporting, TQ.
---
Yes, they "apologized" with a smirk, after their deliberate fraud helped get Bush appointed president by the Republicans on the Supreme Court. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 19, 2009 7:36 PM:

" Karl Rove on the ABC flap:

ROVE: If it's not crossing a line, it's getting comfortably too close to a line of where a news network becomes a cooperating partner of and an adjacency to the White House communications shop. And I think the presence of a former ABC reporter as the communicator-in-chief inside the White House on this issue also raises questions about how it ended up in the hands of ABC.

I saw a video of this and he said it with a straight face too.

Oh really Karl, guess you forgot about Tony Snow, and all the exclusive Fox interviews with the Bush regime members, huh?

Now where did Snow work before he was tapped to be Bush's press secretary?

The hypocrisy that comes out that party in incredible at times... "

cedric66 wrote on Jun 19, 2009 8:22 PM:

" Time to do a little Bongo Ears bashing. I see where he was responsible for 28 more civilans in Pakistan yesterday. Oops, I'm sorry. Bush made him do it. Right? "

Karmatic Lawyer wrote on Jun 24, 2009 6:33 AM:

" This letter is extremely ridiculous. Most of the commentary regarding the letter is ridiculous. The fact that many people who comment point their fingers, and claim that people with opposing opinions are ignorant because they are close-minded, yet can't see the other person's point of view themselves (in addition to not being able to spell simple words) are ridiculous. Party polarization is to blame for A LOT of this country's problems. Then there are problems that are decades in the making and would have come to light whether a Democrat, a Republican, a Libertarian, or whoever...took up post in the Oval Office (economy-let's borrow, borrow, borrow like it won't come back to get us...it did, cars-let's not look into the future and change the way we do things but instead let's make as much money as we can now so we can all live rich lives, etc.) Then there are the problems being created with every poor decision based on party preference rather than on what is RIGHT. Stimulus bill? Call it what it is...a SPENDING bill. Do you know Illinois is receiving money for the production of Frisbee disc golf courses from the stimulus bill? What, pray tell, will that stimulate? Anyway, Obama naysayers...I know it looks bad right now, but give him some time...he can't fix all the problems of this nation in a blink of an eye. Obama supporters...remove your lips from his butt and take a step back and realize, through objectivity, that he is in a position where he can make or break this country. Addressing all the mistakes I think Obama is making right now would take way too long. I just hope he proves me wrong! "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 24, 2009 10:23 AM:

" Karmatic Lawyer wrote on Jun 24, 2009 6:33 AM:

" This letter is extremely ridiculous. Most of the commentary regarding the letter is ridiculous.

Seriously Karmatic, you need to lighten up. I think you're taking this way to serious. Do you really think anyone who posts of here sees this site a anything more than entertainment? Do you think any one's opinions are changed because of what someone else posts here? This site is nothing more a place to blow steam off, have some fun and get a dig into those who you disagree with politically. This is true whether your a right winger, or a lefty like myself.

If it bothers you that much, may I respectfully suggest your "turn" the dial. "