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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Lee Enterprises

Monday, June 1, 2009 9:04 PM CDT
Two die in double-decker bus accident

By HERB MEEKER, Staff Writer
hmeeker@jg-tc.com

MATTOON — Two men suffered fatal head injuries when they stood up on a double-decker charter bus as it passed under the Interstate 57 overpass at Illinois Route 16 Saturday night, a Champaign County coroner reported.

Justin Sleezer, 22, of Yorkville and Cameron Chana, 22, an Eastern Illinois University student from Clarendon Hill, died from traumatic head injuries at 2:10 and 3:24 a.m., respectively, Sunday in the Carle Foundation Hospital surgical intensive care unit at Urbana, said Champaign County Coroner Duane E. Northrup during a phone interview Sunday afternoon.

Both reportedly stood up on the eastbound bus just prior to passing under the overpass at 7:24 p.m. Saturday. Authorities could not confirm why they were standing up.

Northrup said both men were reportedly facing away from the overpass when the accident occurred. He said the bus driver had informed all passengers to remain seated on the upper deck during the trip.

The bus driver told law officers he pulled over immediately after the accident occurred and then drove to the emergency room at Sarah Bush Lincoln Health Center. The victims were later transported to Carle hospital, Northrup said.

The incident is under investigation by the Mattoon Police Department and the Champaign coroner’s office, he said.

The bus has been used Lincoln Springs Resort and is reportedly owned by Graywood Foundation, according to the accident information filed with the police department.

Chana graduated from EIU this spring and was signed up for a summer class at the university with the intent to enter graduate school this fall, said university spokeswoman Vicki Woodard. Sleezer was Chana’s friend and attended the private outing Saturday at Lake Shelbyville with dozens of other young people, she said.

The charter bus was returning the group to Charleston on Saturday evening after boating on the lake, police reported.

“Our sympathies and thoughts go out to the families of these young men at this time,” Woodard said.

This has been a tragic spring for Eastern. Three university graduate students were killed in a motor vehicle accident on March 21 in St. Louis.

Contact Herb Meeker at hmeeker@jg-tc.com or 238-6869.

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cubs1 wrote on May 31, 2009 5:18 PM:

" I wonder if alcohol was involved? It is very sad. "

saga wrote on May 31, 2009 5:52 PM:

" I've seen posters tear apart the victims in a tragedy like this when they suspect alcohol was involved. I sincerely hope that everyone keeps this respectful and understands that all of us, especially teenagers and young adults, sometimes do stupid things. My heart goes out to all of those involved: the young men's friends who were on the bus and must have been traumatized with what they witnessed, the grieving family and friends of the young men, and the bus driver. I'm sure alcohol had something to do with this, but I could see this happening without it as well. I wonder at the overall safety of an open double-decker bus on highways where there are overpasses. I have a hard time imagining how it is legal for an such a vehicle to be on the roads if there is risk of danger to passengers who might suddenly stand up. "

cubs1 wrote on May 31, 2009 6:08 PM:

" I am sorry I didn't mean to be disrespectful towards the victims. Not at all, I was merely pointing out that so many sad, senseless accidents do involve alcohol. I agree that it is questionable that a double decker bus be allowed on an interstate where someone could stand up. I am sending out my sympathies to the families involved. "

reddual wrote on May 31, 2009 6:21 PM:

" You know, it is not right to assume that alcohol was involved, nor is it right to wonder the legality of having a double decker bus and considering them a danger when someone might stand up. Limos have windows that people can stand up through, they could get hurt like that too. Besides, I've ridden on this bus and there are rules about standing up while the bus is in motion.

This is a terrible accident and we need to remember that it is just that. Why doesn't everyone just focus on sending condolences to the grieving families instead of constantly looking for ways or places to put blame.

Also, these buses run all over the country like Chicago, New York, L.A. all the big cities and in London, England or elsewhere in Europe as well. They are perfectly safe, why don't we all take some personal responsibility for our own safety and follow the rules. And don't blame others when we don't. "

w2009 wrote on May 31, 2009 6:35 PM:

" I don't think it matters if alcohol was involved or not. Clearly this tragedy should never have happened. There should be no way, even if a passenger stands up, that this can occur. From what I understand this happened at approximately 7:30 p.m. in the early evening last night, not at 2:00 a.m. like it is being reported. My heart goes out to both familes. "

kamfong wrote on May 31, 2009 6:40 PM:

" This is such a freak sccident how could anyone even think of posting a negative.Just plain unbelievable,sad. "

Harry Potter wrote on May 31, 2009 6:57 PM:

" kamfong wrote on May 31, 2009 6:40 PM:

" This is such a freak sccident how could anyone even think of posting a negative.Just plain unbelievable,sad. "

Amen kam, I totally agree, but I'm sure some one will feel a need to do so. "

chestnut ave wrote on May 31, 2009 7:02 PM:

" Cameron we miss you and will always love you. "

reddual wrote on May 31, 2009 7:13 PM:

" I didn't mean to come off harshly with my last post. If I did, I apologize. My sympathies to the families and friends of these young men.

We just need to keep focus on what really is the issue here, the young men and the tragic loss of their lives, not double decker buses. "

people are grasping wrote on May 31, 2009 7:23 PM:

" This is a very sad situation. Prayers go out to everyone touched by this tragedy.

That being said...

Where were the negative comments?

There was one question. It wasn't accusatory, nor was it assumed.

You people need to chill out. "

M wrote on May 31, 2009 7:39 PM:

" I wish to convey my sincere condolences to the family, friends and all involved in this tragedy. Words can not possibly tell of the loss of these young men.

I would like to ask that we devote this entire thread to support those that are grieving and nothing more. Please. "

zeldalu wrote on May 31, 2009 8:25 PM:

" My thoughts and prayers go out to these young men and their families. They are in God's good hands. "

mom of twins wrote on May 31, 2009 9:53 PM:

" I am sure that there were probably instructions at the beginning of this bus ride that people on the top deck of this open bus should not stand up while the bus is moving. As we all know that young adults get a little wooley when the weather is nice and they are having a great time. My question is, (was there an employee on the top deck of this bus to insure the safety of the riders)? If not, why not. This was a freak accident and I feel for the families and friends of these two young men. But I feel that it is the owner of the bus that should be liable. It doesn't matter if there was alcohol involved or not. The riders had paid this bus service to be the designated driver. This should be handeled as a liability just as any other automobile accident should be.I do not expect other people that write or read the comments to agree with me, I just wanted to voice my opinion as we are all entitled to one. Again, I want to express my sympathy to the families and friends of these two young men that were taken too soon.
This is an absolute tragedy. "

7X6Z9 wrote on May 31, 2009 11:09 PM:

" May God rest their souls. "

seschoolman wrote on May 31, 2009 11:22 PM:

" Cameron Chana is and was one of my best friends. Just to lay down the facts, the bus driver did not enforce or speak of any rules at any time during the trip. What I want to know is why the bus driver took a route that led to a overpass. He should of been well aware of the height of the bus and where he should and should not drive. I don't think it is anyones business whether alcohol was involved or not. These young adults paid this bus service to safely transport them where they needed to go. My heart goes out to the Chana family and all his friends who are grieving this terrible loss. He was an amazing boy who would do anything for any one of his friends. He will be missed. "

Hooligansmom wrote on Jun 1, 2009 12:23 AM:

" My heart aches for those on the bus at the time of the accident.It is easy for people to start making assumptions concerning the actions and or behavior of the passengers and employees of the bus company. What we need to remember is that 2 young people lost their lives. Let's respect them and their families and friends during this most difficult period.There will be time later to make your opinions known. "

ppp wrote on Jun 1, 2009 2:00 AM:

" This is tragedy that should not have happened. The driver of the bus had absolutely no business going under a overpass at highway speeds with such little clearance. My brother was on this bus trip and he said that the driver made no announcement that passengers should remain seated. In fact, many passengers moved around during the trip and the driver did not say anything. These young men lost their lives due to the poor judgment of the bus driver. "

OldSkool wrote on Jun 1, 2009 6:22 AM:

" My daughter was on the upper level of this bus and unfortunately saw the whole thing. I would like to thank "Saga" for getting this thread back on track and "Mom of twins". You hit the nail on the head with your post. Alcohol is a moot point in this situation and the bus owners are completely liable, IMO. If this double-decker bus came that close to an overpass, then there was no way it should have ever been allowed to be on our highways! Our hearts and thoughts go out to the parents and friends of these young men. "

Local Yocal wrote on Jun 1, 2009 7:16 AM:

" My sympathies to the families of these two young people -- such a tragic accident to happen.

But my question is where does common sense come into play for EVERYONE? Our society has gotten so comfortable passing the buck for their actions that NO one takes any personal responsibility anymore.

This is a tragedy, don't make any mistake about it, but as educated students, they should have understood the dangers of riding on a double-decker bus to begin with AND standing isn't allowed on any bus (school, greyhound what have you) so WHY were they standing? When they chose to break a rule that has been instilled in kids since kindergarten, they also assumed the risk for their action and they paid a very costly penalty.

We as a society need to quit looking for "Whose Liable" and "Whose to Blame" when something like this happens. They broke the most elementary rule of riding a bus -- regardless of what type of bus it was or what road it was traveling down -- why are people so quick to say it was the bus driver's fault?

I hate that this happened and am saddened by the loss of these two young lives, but at the same time, I am angered that people are so quick to point the finger everywhere else. They knew it was wrong to stand whether it was specifically spelled out for them or not -- my kindergartner knows not to stand on the bus. They made the CHOICE to stand, that has nothing to do with the bus driver or the bus owner, it was their choice.

It's time to mourn the loss and leave it at that -- they are responsible for their own actions and their poor decision making cost many dearly. "

rejekt wrote on Jun 1, 2009 7:47 AM:

" Sympath to the family.But I don't feel the bus owner should be held relaible. Everyone was instructed to stay in their seats so what part of that did they not understand.It is sad that 2 lives were lost.Why stand up under an underpass? Maybe they did not realize how close the bus was to the underpass. "

Jim1969 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 7:57 AM:

" Before jumping all over the bus driver, the company that owns and operates the bus, etc you need to have a few facts straight first.

For starters in IL, only underpasses with 13 feet 6 inches of clearance or less are required to be marked.

Secondly it is very hard, if not next to impossible to tell if an underpass has 13ft 7in of clearance or 16ft 7in at road speeds.

Third the driver of a bus has a lot more important things to do that chaperon a group of passengers, especially a group of what would appear to be adults.

Yes this was a tragic accident, but if blame or responsibility must be placed then it needs to be placed on the pair of 22 year old men who perished. If that is too unfair then it should be left as a stupid and senseless accident. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 1, 2009 7:58 AM:

" You people need to chill out. "

I somewhat see your point, people are grasping. I suspect some of the comments being made are sort of a preemptive strike, due to the fact that when someone loses their life, we have a few regulars who seem to want to post insensitive comments regarding the situation that occurred. Often times I think it's just a matter of wanting answers, and I don't think they realize how callous their comments come across. I know that there have been many times that I have made sarcastic remarks (not death related) that were meant to be humorous, and they were interpreted as being mean spirited. It's all too easy to think you know the intent of various posters, but we all misread things at times. Just my thoughts on it. "

Julio wrote on Jun 1, 2009 7:59 AM:

" Greywood Foundation involved in another incident.
Why would they drive under an overpass that was so close to the top of their bus? "

pj1983 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 8:40 AM:

" in the aftermath of such a tragicc accident, why must people resort to finger pointing? blaming an individual or company won't bring back the two young men whose life was cut short. it won't make their grieving families feel any better. it doesn't matter if alcohol was involved because the two men weren't driving and were of age. unless of course the driver had been drinking. lets not point fingers at the driver either. we don't know 100% that they didn't go over a set of rules about standing up. to me however, common sense says not to stand up in an open vehicle while it's moving. so IMHO it was a joint screw-up that led to a TRAGIC ACCIDENT. "

HeinekenMan wrote on Jun 1, 2009 8:58 AM:

" There are lots of issues at play here.

Foremost, I'd like to know a lot more about the vehicle clearance. Could a person conceivably be at risk of severe injury simply from raising an arm to adjust a hat or stretch? Could a 6-foot-8 guy be at risk even if he is seated? Are we talking about five feet of clearance, which would almost certainly indicate that a person would need to jump to be at risk. And just how tall were these two young men? Were they the only people standing?

From what little we know, it's difficult to draw many conclusions. I get a sense that the vehicle simply was not safe.

Of course, another question involves how these young men made contact with the bridge. Why were they standing? Were they simply stretching their legs? Were they shouting at the drivers of cars passing on the interstate or drivers of cars passing on Route 16? Were they trying to touch the under side of the bridge? Did they jump into the air?

The story only says that they were facing away from the bridge. To me, that indicates that they were not involved in any sort of daring or stupid maneuver. They simply stood as, apparently, others had done throughout the trip.

We need some witness reports to clear up some of the ambiguity.

I'd like to know more about the group that was on the bus, too. Were they all members of a fraternity or a church group or a particular class or area of study? "

outsider wrote on Jun 1, 2009 10:54 AM:

" I hate to disagree "oldskool" but it is completely relevant whether alcohol was involved.... and just for the record....i know it was. Alcohol impaires your good judgement. These were two young men that had their entire lives in front of them. It is a tragic accident, and that shouldn't be overshadowed by anything. But with that said, it is also not fair to say it was 100% the driver's fault. Whether the 2 people who had posted on here previously heard it or not, or don't want to admit it, I know for a fact that the driver asked all these young people to calm down and sit down several times after picking them up at the lake. I also know it was at the request of the passengers to go down Rt 16 so they could go to McDonalds after their day out on the lake. I know the driver personally, and he would not intentionally put anyone in harms way. Our thoughts and prayers go out to everyone affected by this tragedy, the two young men, those on the bus, the families left behind, the driver. "

The Question wrote on Jun 1, 2009 10:56 AM:

" It wasn't just a "tragic accident." It was an AVOIDABLE DOUBLE FATALITY. Why are the posters on here always making excuses for people who cause violent deaths? "

das wrote on Jun 1, 2009 11:09 AM:

" This is a very sad and scary incident. However, I think it's important to make sure something like this never happens again and that any and all responsible parties are held accountable. It really bothers me that the first question asked is, "was there alcohol involved?" It doesn't matter. These young adults were responsible and got a vehicle to drive them. We will probably never know for sure what kind of rules were read to the kids, if any were etc. If there is such a rule of no standing, then why was this rule not enforced? I saw the bus drive down 19th St. with several students standing and having a good time, like you would expect. Why did the bus driver and or Greywood not enforce the "rules"? Could they not have hired someone to sit on the upper-deck with the young adults and enforce that they stay seated? Why on earth would the bus driver even take a route that would lead them to going under an overpass? They could have simply taken Old State. Sure, the students probably should not have been standing, but they did, it happened, and it's very sad, however, it is Greywood's responsibility to enforce any rules they may or may not have. My thoughts go out to the families of these two men and their friends who were with them. I could not even begin to imagine what they're experiencing right now. "

getreal1 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 11:21 AM:

" Right on Local Yocal!
What an unfortunate set of circumstances here. I can not even muster the word "accident" in this case. Double decker buses have been used safely for more years than anyone posting on this site has been alive. There are rules and common sense issues at hand. I just hope no one jumps on the banter of "more laws". This is a sad situation that no words will reverse. But it does appear that personal choice was exercised. "

medic57 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 11:42 AM:

" That overpass is marked at 13' 11"

Graywood won't take any responsilbility for their actions, at, least, they never have in the past. "

Becky wrote on Jun 1, 2009 12:30 PM:

" My heart goes out to these young men and their friends and families. What a horrible, horrible accident!! God be with those in mourning. "

Donelle wrote on Jun 1, 2009 1:14 PM:

" My heart and prayers go out to all who were involved. The victims, the people on the bus, the bus driver and all of thier families and friends. This is a terrible tragedy and no "what if's" or "finger pointing" will change this horrible tragedy. This is my own personal opinion. I think that they ought to name that over pass in memory of the young men that lost thier lives with the families permission. With signs heading to Charleston and Mattoon. This would make people stop and think and remember these young men. It might save a life. "

61938 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 1:37 PM:

" jim 1969
Illinois requires all overpasses under 14' 6" to be marked. This bridge has been hit numerous times in it's 45 years of age. I can recall at least 6 accidents with this bridge. "

OldSkool wrote on Jun 1, 2009 2:05 PM:

" Thank you, thank you "Das". You said it perfectly. It's nice to see there are still some level-headed people out there.

To Local Yocal: That has to one of the most ridiculous post I have ever read! "Chose to break a rule", rolls eyes. Evidently you must be a lifelong boy scout/girl scout and have ALWAYS played by the rules and NEVER broken one. God forbid something happens to your child later in life because they made a simple mistake. It must be a burden to be as perfect as you think you are. Karma will come around. "

slats27 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 2:29 PM:

" I received a phone call Saturday evening from my son who was on that bus. These were his friends. I could barely understand what he was trying to say as he was in such a state of shock. The trauma these young people went through Saturday evening is something most of us never have witnessed. This was a great group of young people doing the responsible thing by hiring a transport service. This is a tremendously horrific accident! I can't imagine recieving the phone call that these young men's parents received. Most of these kids are still in shock and their grief is palpable. I praise all of them for their tremendous courage and strength in responding to this accident. My heartfelt sympathy is extended to the families of these two young men. "

HeinekenMan wrote on Jun 1, 2009 2:43 PM:

" For the individual (GetReal1) who suggested that double-decker buses have been used safely for years...

Perhaps you'll want to do some actual fact-checking before making such a rash, uninformed statement. I did a quick Google search, and it took only 10 seconds to discover that a similar accident took place just last July in Washington D.C.

Before I post that link, I'll note that the story says the people were standing on the seats. Might we learn the same about the EIU students?

http://tinyurl.com/npkj8d "

Hooligansmom wrote on Jun 1, 2009 2:50 PM:

" Let's all take a moment to think about what to post. There are grieving families and friends who could be reading these posts. As someone who lost a family member in a tragic and very public way I would like to ask that comments not be made about who is at fault, what should have or could have been done to prevent this tragedy. Hindsight is 20/20. Please have compassion for those who are now gone as well as their loved ones. This topic will not soon disappear. Let's be above board and post opinions and thoughts at a later date. "

das wrote on Jun 1, 2009 2:51 PM:

" Outsider: Even if the kids wanted to go to McDonald's on their way, the driver could have taken Dettro Drive to Country Club Road and hit Old State that way. You're correct, this is not 100% the drivers fault, but it is in some sense his/her fault, some sense Graywood's fault, and some sense the victim's fault. This is why all parties need to be held accountable. If the young adults were so rowdy and asked to calm down several times, then why did the bus driver not pull the bus over and say, "we aren't going anywhere till you follow the rules?" Sure, more responsibility on the kids part would be nice, but when you own and or operate something and people are not following your rules, it is your responsibility to kick them out/off to ensure your safety and the safety of the other people. "

EIUmom wrote on Jun 1, 2009 3:10 PM:

" As "Slats 27" did, I also recieved that phone call from my daughter Saturday night that started "I have something to tell you, I just want you to know that I'm ok". I feel so lucky to have recieved that call. Two sets of parents will never get that phone call...they have lost their sons. Something every parent has had nightmares about since becoming parents. I just know that for now, the only thing we need to focus on is the families of two young men and their unbelievable pain. We also need to remember, we don't know what effect this will have on the eyewinesses. These kids did try to do the right thing by hiring a bus to get them home safely. Everyone needs to pray that they get the phone call from their kids and not a coroner when something tragic happens. "

name_hidden_to_protect_the_innocent wrote on Jun 1, 2009 4:22 PM:

" It is very sad that two young men have lost their lives to an unfortunate accident.

It is also sad to think of the thousands of dollars that the foundation is going to have to pay to fight their case. The society we live in, there is no doubt in my mind that the parents will get an attorney to get answers.

Everyone on that bus is going to be called in for depositions as a witness to the accident. For those that are posting on this site that were on the bus, be very careful as to what you say! Through a subpoena, it's possible they will pull your posts on this site. Same goes for parent's posting on their childs behalf.

Be prepared...this is going to be a long, drawn out case....

As for the bus driver, it's not his fault these men chose to stand up. With the rules provided or without the rules provided, they should have known that standing up could result in injury.

Kinds of brings back memories of the college students that lost their lives at the spillway in Charleston, a tragic accident that could have been avoided had common sense determined their actions.

As a parent, if something like this happened, yes, I would want to point and blame others as well, that's just natural instinct. Anyone here that says anything different is not telling the truth.

If some are blaming the bus driver, why not blame the men's friends on the bus? Why didn't they try and get them to sit down? If anyone is trying to say the bus driver is to blame, then everyone on that bus is to blame including the two that lost their lives! "

mickeygarlock wrote on Jun 1, 2009 4:44 PM:

" das wrote on Jun 1, 2009 2:51 PM:

If the young adults were so rowdy and asked to calm down several times, then why did the bus driver not pull the bus over and say, "we aren't going anywhere till you follow the rules?"

I agree completely, I was once on a bus trip to Bush Satdium, some guys kept opening the windows, after a couple of warnings, the driver stopped the bus at the nearest town and told everyone they could either close thier windows or call for a ride home.

slats27 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 2:29 PM:

" I received a phone call Saturday evening from my son who was on that bus. These were his friends. I could barely understand what he was trying to say as he was in such a state of shock. The trauma these young people went through Saturday evening is something most of us never have witnessed.

EIUmom wrote: We also need to remember, we don't know what effect this will have on the eyewinesses.

It will be very hard on those who witnessed it, I was part of a horrible accident 34 years ago on Lake Mattoon, even though the accident was NOT my fault, I still think, what if I had done something different that day, would the accident have happened if I had stopped to get a coke somewhere, the answer is no, it wouldn't have made a difference, but I still think about it. I believe it's called survivors guilt, and if you are a normal feeling human being, you will have it. "

eiuparent wrote on Jun 1, 2009 5:38 PM:

" My son was on the upper level of the bus and was a close friend to Cameron. I can not believe that anyone would put the blame on the young men for their terrible accident, or put the blame on their friends. Is standing up a crime? Why was a double decker bus allowed on the highway? Why didn't the bus driver choose a safer route? It is the bus driver and the bus company's responiblity to keep their passengers safe. This is beyond a doubt a case of neglignce. My son and the rest of the young people on the bus will carry this tragedy with them for the rest of their life. I feel terrible for the parents and the family of these young men,their pain must be unbearable. "

saga wrote on Jun 1, 2009 5:41 PM:

" Does anyone know if there is a coordinated effort underway to provide some sort of post-traumatic stress counseling to those young people who were on the bus and witnessed this? Perhaps through EIU? I've heard of a few who are struggling, and it often takes weeks or months to get counseling appointments in this area because there is a shortage of mental health professionals. "

medic57 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 5:54 PM:

" Is standing up a crime?

No, just not very smart. "

TEACHER4 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 6:22 PM:

" I was driving on Route 16 Saturday afternoon when this bus was driving to Lake Shelbyville. Many of the passengers were standing up when I drove by the bus. An SUV behind the bus was apparently following the bus with a boat. Many of the boys were standing up and flipping off the SUV driver and other vehicles. I think everyone is a little at fault, the driver should have a camera or maybe another person on top to supervise and also being around the same age as the guys who passed, a little self control, sit down. Also the others on the bus who were watching or not watching, advise them to sit down. Thoughts and prayers to all the families and friends involved. "

Hahvahd wrote on Jun 1, 2009 6:28 PM:

" If this was the riders' first time on a double decker bus, they might not have known the risk. On trains and airplanes they tell passengers not to stand up at certain times, too, but it's related to not losing your balance and falling. Perhaps these young men thought that was the risk and believed they could handle it. If the driver didn't give warnings about overpasses and such, why would a passenger unfamiliar with this mode of transportation anticipate the consequences? I agree with posters who have indicated there were steps the bus company could have taken (having an employee on the top deck, pulling the bus over if passengers were rowdy, taking an alternate route, etc.) that could have prevented this accident. "

name_hidden_to_protect_the_innocent wrote on Jun 1, 2009 7:43 PM:

" Hahvahd wrote on Jun 1, 2009 6:28 PM:

"If the driver didn't give warnings about overpasses and such".....

you're kidding here right?!?!? Give warnings about the dangers of standing up and sticking your head out of a moving vehicle???? Yes, you're correct....the bus driver should have spent 2 hours going over common sense details with these kids! "

devilishangel61401 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 7:56 PM:

" I agree with those who say we should not point any fingers at anyone, this was a tragic accident for everyone involved, the freinds and families of these young people, the other passengers on the bus, and even the bus driver. Our focus should be on giving the families and freinds as well as anyone else who was on this trip our prayers and smypathies. This tragedy is just awful and my heart goes out to everyone involved. "

wmegan85 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 8:20 PM:

" Yes its sad that 2 people died but here is my thing WHO STANDS UP ON A DOUBLE DECKER BUS WHEN GOING UNDER AN OVER PASS? Even if the bus driver "didn't say sit down" don't you think a College Grad should know better? What is the number one rule we learn when we got on a bus in 1st grade. We are to sit at all time and shh when we stop at rail road crossings COME ON. I am 100% sure there was liq involved. I have seen phat house partys taken place at bars local sites and even out of town bars and they think rules dont apply to them. This is a sad story and my heart goes out to EVERYBODY that lost somebody last week since there was 10 young people die in this area in 7 days and I feel for all of you. But maybe stop blaming other people or stop putting words in peoples mouth and just deal that life it self is not fair and remember that at age 18+ really nobody needs to tell people what to do they should be old enough to be mature. "

Mike P wrote on Jun 1, 2009 8:26 PM:

" Yet another tragedy with possible ties to the Graywood foundation, possibly the result of inadequate supervision, or instruction. Hope this investigation is thorough, finds any fault and gets it addressed. "

goodluckchuck wrote on Jun 1, 2009 9:02 PM:

" I know a couple of people who were dining and saw this bus just minutes before this happened. They said the people were "wooping it up" and very unruly. I don't know about the rest of you, but when I'm driving down the road and somebody flips me off for no reason at all, I get kind of offended. Yes, it's horrible that it happened. I can only imagine what the families are going through. But, these individuals were clearly acting irresponsibly and I can only imagine that the driver feels horrible. EIU has counseling available for those kids. I hope the driver has the opportunity to get some counseling too. "

eiuparent2 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 9:41 PM:

" There are phone #'s available for counslers. During Office hours: 217 581-3413. After hours : PAGER # 217 348-2909. They are ready for individual counseling.
Our thoughts and prayers are with the families of these young men. I understand that they were fantastic guys and it is a tragedy that they have been taken from their friends and families.
To the friends that were with them, be thankful that you were with them and they were not alone, they know they were loved. This vision of this tragedy will be with you forever, you cannot and will not forget, we hope time helps to mend your pain.
To the families: as parents we cannot imagine your heartbreak and pain, it must be unbearable!This is not the natural life cycle, and no parent should have to ever bear the pain of the loss of a child. May the strength of your family, friends and faith help to get you through this. "

Responsible Party wrote on Jun 1, 2009 9:57 PM:

" The last post by eiuparent2 and those offering prayers and condolences are really the only ones that are helpful here. My heart goes out to to the families and friends of these young men. "

MamaB wrote on Jun 1, 2009 10:51 PM:

" My daughter also was on the upper deck of the bus. I thank God that the phone call I received was to know she was OK. We have all had moments where we have done things without thinking. Accidents happen. This is a terrible tragedy and there isn't always the need to blame. We need to pray for these families and all of those affected. "

southerncub wrote on Jun 2, 2009 9:20 AM:

" First off, before I make any comments, I'd like to remind people that these young gentlemen have families, and that first and foremost, respect and prayers for them, the friends of the victims, and the memories of the victims themselves should come before any criticism, skepticism, or dissecting of "who did what" and "what went wrong."

Secondly, don't pick "e-fights" on a comment board about what somebody wrote. This is a terrible situation in which two young men lost their lives. Two young men with promises of a great future. Don't make it an even worse situation by bringing negative thoughts and comments trying to say that your opinion is the right one, and that all the others are wrong.

Remember, these boys have families. These boys have friends. And all of those people could very easily read these comments about their sons, and if I were them, I'd be ashamed that people are just arguing rather than trying to understand what happened.

I've lost friends, and I've heard the gossip/rumors behind their deaths, and it wasn't the gossip that made me upset, it was the fact people made the gossip/rumors more important of conversational piece then the memories, families, and friends of the deceased.

Is this what we have become as people? Theories and bickering over concern and caring? It's things like this that make me glad I'm out of Coles County.

As a child I thought people genuinely cared about the respect of others, even out of towners, but I now see that in Coles County, every one is open for discussion, no matter the circumstances, not even in death are people free from the whispers of coffee house discussion.

To the friends and families of the two victims I give you my condolences and I hope that the healing process begins soon. Death isn't an easy thing to deal with, and the loss of someone very important isn't something that comes over night, it takes years sometimes, and I hope that you pay no attention to what some of the people in this forum have said about the situation. And I hope you remember the boys for who they were, what they did in life, and not as victims, and I encourage you to seek counseling if the situation becomes too hard to deal with. God bless. "

getreal1 wrote on Jun 2, 2009 9:33 AM:

" HeinekenMan
I appreciate your indepth research in finding one incident about a year old. Double Decker buses have been used safely for many years. Automobiles have been used safely for years. Guns have been used safely for years. Fireworks have been used safely for years. Boats have been used safely for years. That should give you plenty to google. If you want to find the negative you will. "

jrussell wrote on Jun 2, 2009 11:23 AM:

" many sad incidents DO happen thanks to alcohol, heck a saw a few the other day myself, yet alcohol still doesn't get taxed like cigarettes, marijuana is still a ridiculous crime, alcohol can still advertise but not tobacco companies, everytime Dad flips on a sports game which kids watch quite a bit...there sits some sort of alcohol advertisement be it on the field or simply as a commercial, bunch of bull "

keepinitreal wrote on Jun 2, 2009 12:05 PM:

" If I am understanding this correctly the bus was to be an alternative form of safe transportation for those who are partaking in drinking. I understand there are rules for the bus while it is in motion however most people while drunk have no clue what rules are nor do they care. It appears that had the place leasing out the bus should have taken that into consideration and posted a spotter on the upper deck to assure that the drunks riding the bus would have a voice of reason to help them to follow the rules. This is a tragedy and my heart goes out to the family of the young men. I dont feel the boys are at all to blame in this. They signed up to go on a trip that involved drinking and knew that they could partake and enjoy without worry of safe transportation. Its so sad that the company promising the safe transportation didn't make it truly safe. "

The Question wrote on Jun 2, 2009 12:14 PM:

" Everyone has a family. That fact does not impress me in the least when a public issue is concerned. "

misfit2 wrote on Jun 2, 2009 2:54 PM:

" No matter if alcohol was involved or not it is still a tragedy. You cannot lay the blame on the bus driver when these people were adults. my heart goes to the families. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 2, 2009 4:46 PM:

" "Everyone has a family. That fact does not impress me in the least when a public issue is concerned."
----------

That fact should not "impress" you, it should move you towards compassion.

We should all recall a time of deep loss and sorrow in our own lives. We should remember how fragile our hearts were at that time. With tragic events such as this we should keep those memories close to our hearts and choose our words wisely. "

62463 wrote on Jun 2, 2009 6:15 PM:

" All young children on a school bus know that they are not supposed to stand up on the bus. Do they do it anyway, of course. You would think that two 22 year olds would know better. Sometimes we have to take responsibility for our actions. The equalizer in this whole tragic story is the word ALCOHOL. "

misfit2 wrote on Jun 2, 2009 8:04 PM:

" i personally know the driver of this double decker bus that night and he is a very cautious and safe driver. this was a terrible terrible accident that no parent should have to go through. i could not imagine how the driver or the other passengers that were on the bus are going through right now. my hear goes out to them as well. "

Hammbone wrote on Jun 2, 2009 8:12 PM:

" "He said the bus driver had informed all passengers to remain seated on the upper deck during the trip." It doesnt take a mental giant to understand that statement. Please Remain Seated! I shake my head in dis-belief that the drivers words meant Nothing what so ever.
Terrible accident,just terrible,
Why do people ignore statements that are made for their benifit? Tragic as it may be. I think I would pay attention to what I was told. I would think that Highly educated Eastern Illinois University students would understand this process I guess I'm wrong. Warnings arnt just made to hear ones voice over a PA system, I'm sorry for the familys loses but Geezz Louise Whats not to understand here. "

HeinekenMan wrote on Jun 2, 2009 9:58 PM:

" I can think of hundreds of reasons a person might stand on a bus. To grab a hat that blew off. Or a $20 bill the wind blew out of a guy's fingers. To catch something another passenger has thrown. To lean over the side of the bus and vomit. In order to put on a jacket. To pull a cell phone out of a pocket. And, yes, to scream at other vehicles and generally act like a drunken fool.

Regardless of what might cause a person to stand, it's undeniable that it could happen under normal circumstances, and it is extremely likely to happen if alcohol is involved. It's too bad that nobody considered that before loading drunken college kids onto a double-decker, open-air bus with only five inches of clearance.

I don't know whether the oversight makes anyone liable. I'm not interested in pointing fingers. But it's tough for me to stop thinking about how this terrible tragedy could have been avoided via a little more common sense. When I discovered that it has happened before, I recognized a serious problem that needs to be addressed by any company that operates these vehicles. "

mslisa66 wrote on Jun 2, 2009 11:12 PM:

" Well since whomever at the TC/JC site keeps censoring both of my posts, I'll just say my thoughts and prayers go out to both boys families. Whatever happened to free speech without being censored--guess someone doesn't want my posts about Graywood on here....hummmmm, interesting!!! "

irisheyes wrote on Jun 2, 2009 11:59 PM:

" To the people who think this is a freak accident: the same thing happened in D.C. less than a year ago, with the tragic loss of two men's lives as well. I agree it is important for us all to take responsibility for our own actions, but mistakes are made by everybody, and it is important as a society to limit the chances of these mistakes leading to injury or death. We already do it in several areas, such as seat belt laws and strict jaywalking laws passed by the University of Illinois due to many students being hit by buses. No matter who is 'at fault' here, I think it is important to look at ways of preventing this in the future so other lives aren't ended far too soon. "

medic57 wrote on Jun 3, 2009 3:40 AM:

" mslisa66

As this is your 1st post here, we can assume that your posts are NOT being censored, they are being blocked, more than likely because of language or libel. "

Jim1969 wrote on Jun 3, 2009 10:51 AM:

" My apologies. I was wrong about the bridge clearance posting laws in Illinois thanks to a faulty source. What can I say except thank you Rand McNally for listing faulty info. "

mslisa66 wrote on Jun 3, 2009 12:17 PM:

" Well medic57, since I didn't use any foul language in my previously blocked posts, it must be because I brought up the name "Graywood". It just amazes me how people can get on here and fight and bicker back and forth, and cut each other down, you included, but thats ok to post on here. I simply bring up the Graywood name and how there has been other deaths that happened under their supervision and my posts get blocked!! "

medic57 wrote on Jun 3, 2009 1:05 PM:

" mslisa66

It just depends how you use craft your post. "

jrussell wrote on Jun 3, 2009 2:27 PM:

" keepinitreal wrote on Jun 2, 2009 12:05 PM:

" If I am understanding this correctly the bus was to be an alternative form of safe transportation for those who are partaking in drinking. I understand there are rules for the bus while it is in motion however most people while drunk have no clue what rules are nor do they care. It appears that had the place leasing out the bus should have taken that into consideration and posted a spotter on the upper deck to assure that the drunks riding the bus would have a voice of reason to help them to follow the rules. This is a tragedy and my heart goes out to the family of the young men. I dont feel the boys are at all to blame in this. They signed up to go on a trip that involved drinking and knew that they could partake and enjoy without worry of safe transportation. Its so sad that the company promising the safe transportation didn't make it truly safe. "

...NOW you just said that alcohol makes you NOT CARE ABOUT THE RULES, i can't drive without a seatbelt without being pulled over so what makes them think they can stand up on a bus rolling down the highway? they ignored the rules, like u said possibly because of alcohol "

mslisa66 wrote on Jun 3, 2009 5:01 PM:

" In regards to these kids standing up on the bus numerous times throughout the trip, why didn't the bus driver pull over and tell these kids to sit down or they would be kicked off the bus? What about the spectators who saw these kids standing up, flipping off the car behind them--why didn't they call the police and report this? To me it all falls to the driver and owners of this bus!!! The driver never had control of HIS bus!!! It doesn't matter if the bus driver went over all the rules for the bus or not. Kids are gonna be kids, they think their invincable and only out for a good time. Add alchohol to the mix and he might as well have been talking to toddlers, cause there is no talking to someone who has been drinking. That driver knew exactly what was going on, on the top of that bus, and yet he continued driving, even stopping at McDonalds for them to eat. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out if these kids were standing up and rowdy during the trip to Shelbyville, then its not gonna be any different on the trip back home. Had there been a supervisor on the top of that bus during that trip, these two boys might be here today. "

name_hidden_to_protect_the_innocent wrote on Jun 3, 2009 7:48 PM:

" mslisa66 wrote on Jun 3, 2009 5:01 PM:

So what you're saying is that everyone should have chipped in double to have an extra employee on the bus since 20 something year olds can't use good judgement and common sense?

Also, even if there was a chaperone, it would only take one second for someone to stand up....even if there WAS a chaperone on the particular trip doesn't meant he outcome would have been any different. If they weren't going to listen to the driver, what makes anyone think they would listen to a chaperon??

Once again, I agree this is a very tragic accident and my heart goes out to the families of these two men. With that in mind, why do people feel the need to blame the foundation or the driver? I'm sure there are things that can be improved upon, just as there are with any accidents; however, doesn't mean the Graywood foundation nor the bus driver were negligent by any means. "

mom of twins wrote on Jun 3, 2009 8:28 PM:

" I feel so badly for all people involved. Yes the kids should not have been standing, yes the driver should not have gone under the overpass, yes Mr O. should have hired another rider on top of this bus to supervise. After the shock and horror wears off, this will be taken up in a court of law, yes, I am sure of this. And yes, I do think that it is time to think of the greiving families and friends and let this thread fizzle out. "

medic57 wrote on Jun 3, 2009 10:08 PM:

" If Mr. O had done that, it would have cost him $7.50 and hour. "

mslisa66 wrote on Jun 3, 2009 10:36 PM:

" No name_hidden.....I don't think the kids should have shelled out more money, the additional staff on this bus should have been provided. Theres only one driver and he's expected to watch the roads as well as 2 levels on the bus--I think NOT!! Also, it doesn't matter how old a person is, when someone is drinking, their not going to use good judgement and common sense!! According to TEACHER4's post, he saw this bus heading to Shelbyville and these kids were already standing up and being rowdy. The bus driver should have pulled over then and refused to go any further until these kids settled down, or moved the ones standing and/or being rowdy down to the lower level, or called and got some extra help on that upper-deck. There are alot of things that could have or should have been done that weren't, including driving that bus under an overpass with only 5 inches of clearance knowing that the kids on that upper-deck had been rowdy and standing up on the trip TO Shelbyville--did the driver think these kids were gonna be any different on the trip back?? "

pj1983 wrote on Jun 3, 2009 10:46 PM:

" it floors me that people keep referring to the "kids" involved. these weren't kids, people. they were ADULTS. 22 year old grown-a55 people. they made a dumb decision. why point fingers? it took a colaborative effort to get this accident to orrur. "

mslisa66 wrote on Jun 3, 2009 11:38 PM:

" I found this in an article from the Chicago Tribune...

The driver never told the partygoers on the upper deck to sit down, passengers on the bus said.

"There was nothing ever said to us about any safety precautions," said Sleezer's friend, Robert Stiles, 22. Many were drinking from a case of beer, Stiles said.

Griffith said it was unclear whether the victims were standing or sitting when the bus went under the overpass, but Stiles said Sleezer and Chana were among several people standing at the time.

At about 6-foot-2, Sleezer was one of the taller people standing on the deck, Stiles said. Chana was about 6-foot-3, fraternity brothers said.

"I'm thinking the other taller guys were sitting down," Stiles said.

Sleezer was standing at the back of the bus facing backward. Chana was standing at the front of the bus, also facing backward, Stiles said. "It happened so quickly. None of us saw the overpass coming."

Stiles, who described himself as about 5-foot-7, said he was standing next to Sleezer. "He fell into my arms," Stiles said. "

medic57 wrote on Jun 3, 2009 11:55 PM:

" It happened so quickly. None of us saw the overpass coming."

Yeah, just like the Captain of the Exon Valdez didn't see Alaska floating there. "

mom of twins wrote on Jun 4, 2009 12:12 PM:

" I still refer to my adult children as kids. 31,30 and two 25 year olds. Anyone younger than I, will always be a kid. Chill Out. "

name_hidden_to_protect_the_innocent wrote on Jun 4, 2009 7:57 PM:

" mslisa66, thanks for sharing the article above! The details this young man provides if very creepy.

I can't imagine being any of them on the bus. I can't wait for all the details and facts to actually come out so maybe we can understand how this happened. Yes, two young men lost their lives; however, if many were standing, think of how much worse this could have been! "

mslisa66 wrote on Jun 4, 2009 9:00 PM:

" Oh I know name_hidden!! No one should have been standing on that bus at all, whether the over-pass was involved or not. What I just can't understand.......why did the driver allow this? Why didn't he kick the kids off, or just turn the bus around and head back to home-base from the get-go if the kids weren't going to follow the rules (if there were any). When you get down to it, it was the driver and the owners of this bus service responsibilty to make sure the rules were followed!! If you go to an amusement park and don't follow the rules and safety guidelines, your ejected from the park--the same should have been used in this instance. I do hope they do a thorough investigation and all these questions are answered and the right people or person has to suffer the consequences. "

FAMILY wrote on Jun 5, 2009 1:05 PM:

" Cameron Chana was buried today!!! "

jen wrote on Jun 6, 2009 8:50 PM:

" I guess my question is.. what route did the bus take to get to Lake Shelbyville. My thought would be they drove there the same way they were driving home. If that is the case the rider knew what to expect when they got close to the overpass.. It is an absolutly horrible accident but as many have said before these are adults we are talking about.. "

jrussell wrote on Jun 8, 2009 2:58 PM:

" does graywood always rent their bus out to anyone, was this driver qualified even though i still don't think it was his fault in anyway but still, did they check his driving record etc.? "

mojo wrote on Jun 9, 2009 2:46 AM:

" What I am not understanding here is how can the bus driver be the only one held accountable here? These "kids" were 22 years old!! What about their friends who were on the bus with them? Didn't ANYONE on the top level with them think it might be a bad idea to stand up?! Do none of these "kids" have a lick of common sense?! You might as well also blame the guy who built the overpass for not making it taller!! It is a tragic and unfortunate accident. But to blame the driver and pick apart his credentials because he couldn't drive the bus and be on the top level at the same time to baby-sit intoxicated college students is ridiculous. I am sure the man has had enough emotional trauma and has re-played the night in his head 1000 times thinking about what he could have done different. Leave it alone people. "