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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Lee Enterprises

Tuesday, May 26, 2009 9:37 PM CDT
LETTER: Day will come when Piper has to be paid

GENE BAUER, Mattoon

There is a reason for inundating you with my letters — self-centered to be sure — but the fact is that to see my name in the letters to the editor column rather than in the obituary column is most stimulating!

Besides, in this “Pied Piper” world of Obamanomics, someone with nearly a hundred years of living experience has a duty to be pessimistic and to give the advice of “you really shouldn’t do that!”

As a one-time banker of long ago, we took very seriously our duty to carefully scan each and every money certificate to be certain that our customers would not suffer loss by means of receiving a “counterfeit” bill.

Fortunately, it would seem to me that this vigilance today is no longer needed.

With our ability to print untold numbers of sheets of paper with any number of numerals and zeroes denominating its value, if one should happen to slip through not backed by “The Full Faith and Credit” of the government, wouldn’t it be about as valuable and stimulate economy in like manner?

Don’t get me wrong: I am not in favor of counterfeit money!

Neither am I in favor of creating a counterfeit economy based upon “spending un-collected future taxes” in an attempt to buy prosperity today. The Piper will have to be paid!

GENE BAUER

Mattoon

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M wrote on May 26, 2009 11:15 PM:

" It is disturbing to think that OUR children/grandchildren, etc will have to pay the piper. Very insightful letter, Mr. Bauer. "

kamfong wrote on May 27, 2009 1:39 AM:

" Yes Mr.Bauer and the piper will probably come in the form of a mushroom cloud. "

Harry Potter wrote on May 27, 2009 8:32 AM:

" Once again Bauer whines about the government. Funny he never complains about any of the stupid decisions made by the Coles county board. Oh yeah, he voted for some of those of some those "wise" expenditures. "

medic57 wrote on May 27, 2009 8:44 AM:

" I ahhh, noticed, that he didn't complain when Bush gave 700 billion to the banks. "

Jim1969 wrote on May 27, 2009 1:51 PM:

" The real issue is not so much as who did what and when. You can trace blame back decades if you want to and lay this that or the other at the feet of this person or that political party. The real issue is how many more billions or trillions of dollars are our decedents going to have to pay for due to consumer and corporate greed and political stupidity.

To paraphrase Billy Joel, Obama didn't start the fire, but his policies are throwing fuel on it instead of water. "

Harry Potter wrote on May 27, 2009 6:33 PM:

" Jim, I realize you don't agree, but the man is trying to save some industries, which in turn will save jobs. The drivel that's coming out of the mouth of Limbaugh, Fox news and their ilk, is nothing but partisan tripe. His intention is not to turn this country toward Socialism, but to get it back on it's feet. "

Responsible Party wrote on May 27, 2009 7:21 PM:

" How did this discusssion become political? The point made by Mr. Bauer is that spending money we do not have is not a sound economic strategy. Such spending would mimic the "credit card" method of money management (no budget necessary, no reality check required) which has been the source of finanacial ruin for so many.

Thanks, Mr. Bauer, for the words of wisdom and sanity. I, too, hope to continue to see your name on these pages. "

Harry Potter wrote on May 27, 2009 8:41 PM:

" How did this discusssion become political?

You're not serious are you? Bauer's letters, just like those of the other local curmudgeon Jack Pierce, are always a slam at the Democrats. That seems to make it political, don't you think? "

Responsible Party wrote on May 27, 2009 9:12 PM:

" Now, Harry...I suppose that I just read the bottom line---uncontrolled spending is never a good thing---regardless of who is in charge, pointing fingers, or taking offense. I try to use microscopic vision---all of the crap floating around the periphery tends to distort what should be a clear picture---and it stinks. "

Tom Andres wrote on May 27, 2009 10:34 PM:

" Harry, if you stand back from the dust a few yards, surely you can see that most of the folks opining on here find fault with politicians on both sides of the aisle. (With a few exceptions, such as father bob, The Question, etc.)

I'm an idea guy, not a party guy. I took strong exception to many things read-my-lips-Bush did, many things the-meaning-of-is-is-Clinton did, many things nucuuller-BushII did, and I do take exception to nearly everything The-One-Obama is doing right now.

And NO, Harry, I really think his agenda isnt even remotely connected to getting our country back on its feet. That would have happened all on its own; and our grandchildren could have been spared this huge impending burden of debt. I sincerely believe Obama is a socialist and is on a path to destroy this nation as we know it. I dont trust him, and I will fight against his agenda until hes out of office.

By the way, to show my bipartisanship, I think McCain would have taken us in nearly the same direction Obama seems to be going, just not as fast. The only good thing about Obama being president, instead of McCain, is that Obamas style is anything but smooth. His socialist agenda is blatantly obvious, so hes a conservatives best wake up call. "

M wrote on May 28, 2009 7:32 AM:

" I couldn't agree with you more, Tom. 100%! "

medic57 wrote on May 28, 2009 8:20 AM:

" Tom Andres

While I agree with a lot of what you say, I will also say the Mr. Bauer, like a lot of well off people, have no sympathy for the less fortunate. Now, don't get me wrong, he is pretty well off and he worked all of his life for that and that's great, but, when people have no jobs and no insurance and no food, it IS the Government's job to help, no matter what the cost. Yes, there are people who don't want to work, is that their children's fault?
Strangely enough, 1% of the USA's population have 80% of it's wealth. The wealthy don't want the middle and poor classes to be happy, if they were, the wealthy wouldn't have near the power they do now.
It's just like in the old south, a lot of very poor whites didn't like equality, not because it gave blacks the right to vote and other things, but because now, some blacks would be better off than them.
It's all about power in this world, an example, although I am a christian, I believe in a theory that I call, The Church Syndrome, I once worked in a business that gave everyone working there a title, Manager, Business Office Manager, Head Technician, Technician and so on, in some (not all) churches they have Elders, Deacons, Group leaders and so on. In these situations, EVERYONE is meant to feel important, now, the less educated feel like, WOW, I'm someone, while anyone with a brain would think, what a crock of Sh_t. I don't know about you, but I would rather have a raise than a promotion. (and yes, you can get a promotion without a raise. THIS, is the type of person Mr. Bauer is, he'll gripe when anyone tries to help the less fortunate. He doesn't like it, and, for some reason, most Democrats like to help the less fortunate, and most Republicans never have. Think about it, when you were growing up, what did your father always tell you, he almost always said, I vote for democrats because they help the little people and the republicans are always for big business. "

just watching wrote on May 28, 2009 8:43 AM:

" Mr.Bauer please enlighten me with a story about the longevity of life. Whats the secret? "

jayce wrote on May 28, 2009 8:47 AM:

" reguarding Tom Andes post--May 27, 10:34PM post-----------AMEN! "

shumphreys wrote on May 28, 2009 9:14 AM:

" Well said Medic. I certainly aren't thrilled about increasing our debt. I am even less thrilled about the idea of just leaving things alone, as Mr. Andres proposes. That hands off idea is what got us into this mess in the first place. I'm not thrilled about bailing out GM, Chrysler, the Big Banks, those that gambled and lost big time. BUT I am even less thrilled about the consequences of doing nothing. It seems that Republicans can only complain but have no better ideas to put forward to get us out of this mess. If they have something positive to suggest they should do so, saying we should do nothing is NOT the solution. "

Tom Andres wrote on May 28, 2009 9:25 AM:

" Harry, last I heard (although elected politicians and the Supreme Courts of all stripes, in their attempts to move all power to the federal level, have tried their best to repeal it), the First Amendment is still on the books. Even though you may not agree with my opinion, Im certain you would defend my right to express it.

As I said on the Bauer letter string, I sincerely believe Obama is a socialist and is on a path to destroy this nation as we know it. I dont trust him, and I will fight against his agenda until hes out of office. He and his administration are well on their way to stealing our of-the-people-government away from us.

Heres an example of how this works. Imagine the new federally-owned GM makes a poorly engineered Ford Pinto type car at some point in the near future. Now lets say you are killed in a fiery crash in one of these unsafe cars. Since the feds own the car company, will your surviving family members be able to successfully sue the feds? One word answer: NO! "

Jim1969 wrote on May 28, 2009 9:34 AM:

" Just for the record I don't listen to Rush, I do not watch Fox, CNN, MSNBC, or watch the evening news programs on the major networks. I attempt to make my news resources as varied as possible which include both American and foreign sources and then I attempt to form my own opinion.

Anyway, be that as it may it seems that Obama is trying to save the arm by amputating the body. "

Harry Potter wrote on May 28, 2009 10:34 AM:

" This has been said before, but I think it bears repeating.

A working person voting for a Republican is like a chicken voting for Colonel Sanders. "

Tom Andres wrote on May 28, 2009 1:16 PM:

" medic57, how in the world would you know Mr. Bauers sympathy level or charitable gifting habits? Just a guess here, but Im thinking that many people who give the most do it anonymously, without fanfare.

I strongly disagree with your contention that its the governments job to give anything of mine away to whomever they decide should receive it. If I want to help a friend or a foe in need, Ill make that decision myself and have many times in my life. Contrary to populist opinion, our Constitution does not grant the federal government the right to redistribute wealth, or to tax wealth and income for the purpose of spreading it around. In fact, in our form of government, wealth redistribution is unconstitutional.

The federal government is obligated to defend equality at birth, i.e., to recognize and defend the ideal that were all created equal. The federal government does not have the right to guarantee all of us equals will experience the same end result cradle to grave.

Its not the fault of the children of slackers and deadbeats that their parents fail in a socioeconomic sense. Theres nothing immoral or corrupt or even degrading about growing up poor or disadvantaged. You only have to look at Obama or his current Supreme Court nominees claims of oppression and disadvantage to prove that argument.

Youre assuming some truths-not-evident when you claim that the wealthy don't want the middle and poor classes to be happy. Do you honestly think Henry Ford or Andrew Carnegie could have amassed their fortunes by employing unhappy poor and middle class? How about Bill Gates or Warren Buffett? Are any of these extremely wealthy gentlemen guilty of ignoring the poor masses? How about the billions of dollars contributed annually to private charities by average Americans (all political parties)?

Try not to frame your thinking in terms of rich or poor, black or white or Hispanic or Asian, or Republican or Democrat. Were all human beings and we all have nearly identical makeup in terms of greed and coveting. I do agree with you that politics is all about POWER-MONGERING. Thats the way its always been, and I imagine thats the way it will always be. Make no mistake about it, when you hear of a politician wanting to spend YOUR money to help the little people, that politician (no matter the party) is usually buying votes for the next election whether its through the likes of ACORN or through corporate campaign contributions for television airtime.

What we have to keep in mind is that we the people are losing our form of government, while the two-party system keeps us fighting among ourselves and diverts our attention away from their power grab in DC. When its all said and done, corrupt party politicians will divide the spoils in DC and we in the hinterlands will all become the reigned. "

unknownjoe wrote on May 28, 2009 1:21 PM:

" Within the next two decades the United States will experience another Civil War that will make the first one look like a snowball fight. "

unknownjoe wrote on May 28, 2009 1:25 PM:

" Within the next 2 decades the United States will experience another civil war that will make the first one look like a snowball fight. It will be interesting to see who is left standing after it is all over. "

Responsible Party wrote on May 28, 2009 2:53 PM:

" medic57 wrote on May 28, 2009 8:20 AM:

"when people have no jobs and no insurance and no food, it IS the Government's job to help, no matter what the cost."

Sez who? When government took it upon themselves to "help", they engineered the atrocity of the welfare system--a failure that has resulted in the downfall of self esteem and work ethic. The system has sucked the life out of famillies, keeping them confined and dependent and leaving them without hope of self sufficiency, pride, and/or hope for anything different in their future. The second generation and beyond do not have a chance--self sufficiency and "I can do it" attitudes have been replaced by attitudes of entitlement. The only skills being perpetrated are those involving "working the system".

Taking care of people in hard times is the responsibility of family and churches. The government does not have what it takes to truly help people. It does, however, seem to have a handle on ruining a society. "

InsaneWayne wrote on May 28, 2009 3:05 PM:

" And yet the chickens in this area seem to love voting for The Colonel, actually take pride in it. "

shumphreys wrote on May 28, 2009 3:11 PM:

" UnknownJoe yes it is the job of churches and families to help those in need. But the reality is they don't, or they only help their own kind. The government has no choice but to step in and pick up the slack. Or do you think people should be allowed to starve and freeze to death when times are tough? "

shumphreys wrote on May 28, 2009 3:12 PM:

" I goofed I wrote to UnknownJoe and should have addressed it to Responsible Party. My apologies Joe. "

Tom Andres wrote on May 28, 2009 3:31 PM:

" Responsible Party, you couldn't have said it better. Thank you.

shumphreys, please cite one example you personally know of where someone starved or froze to death. (By the way, if you do come up with an example, my next question for you is going to be: Why you didn't help?) Better yet, since you claim to speak for over 300-million people, please cite all the cases you know of nationwide (no, worldwide) where anyone has starved or frozen to death because no one from the private sector in America was willing to step up to the plate. "

medic57 wrote on May 28, 2009 4:53 PM:

" You mean like the guy who froze to death in Michegan last year because The City turned his power off in December. "

Tom Andres wrote on May 28, 2009 5:13 PM:

" medic57 wrote on May 28, 2009 4:53 PM:

" You mean like the guy who froze to death in Michegan last year because The City turned his power off in December. "
*************

Yes, that's exactly what I'm talking about. Now, tell me how someone could have kept that from happening. Would it have been possible for the man to have simply ask his church or the Red Cross or the Salvation Army or a neighbor for a helping hand? Do we really have to change the whole federal government in order to keep the lights on, when a simple "Hey, buddy, can you spare a dime?" would do? "

Responsible Party wrote on May 28, 2009 5:58 PM:

" No, I have never advocated turning a blind eye to need. But assistance needs to be a help, not a prettily packaged invitation that leads to a death spiral.

As for the man who froze to death...you cannot meet a need unless you know it exists. Unless you can tell me that people were made aware of the situation, you cannot chastise them for failing to avert it. "

medic57 wrote on May 28, 2009 7:05 PM:

" Tom

Do you now anything about that story? he had yhousands in the bank, his utility money was sitting on the table, his phone wasn't disconnected, no one cared enough to check on him, the city shut off his heat in sub zero weather. Do you know what happens to someone when severe hypothermia sets in, it's really not very pretty. "

Tom Andres wrote on May 28, 2009 10:17 PM:

" Not trying to zing you with your own words, medic57, but you did post these words on the Sarah Hill letter: "It's all a matter of 2 things, needing it, and asking for it."

So, I'm wondering why the poor soul in Michigan didn't ask for help? I mean, since he had the money (according to you), it sounds like all he had to do is ask someone to take his money to the power company.

Truth is, maybe he knew it was time for him to die. Like Jack Crabb (Dustin Hoffman in Little Big Man), he may have gazed into the sunset and said "It's a good day to die." "

shumphreys wrote on May 29, 2009 7:17 AM:

" Mr. Andres Medic addressed your question, but lets expand the sweep of our net a bit. Are you aware of the need for food banks and pantrys in our area? Are you aware of the statistics are undernourished children in the US, one of the wealthiest countries in the world and we have undernourished children. Are you aware of the numbers of people without health insurance who die each year for lack of adequate medical care? Are you aware of anything beyond your own self? "

Tom Andres wrote on May 29, 2009 11:16 AM:

" shumphreys, your "Are you aware ..." post doesn't deserve an answer, so you'll get none; but here are some questions for you. When is the last time you volunteered at a food pantry? I mean, actually performed some physical labor and money to help feed these undernourished folks you mention. I'm betting you consider the tax funded food stamps to be your own personal contribution, right? Do you actually know any of these folks? Do you spend all your free time on here blasting other people who actually DO the charitable work that you so often criticize?

Another question for you. When is the last time you volunteered your time or money to support a Pregnancy Resource Center that helps unwed pregnant mothers and their unborn babies find the help they need; or do you consider the federal tax subsidies to Planned Parenthood to be your own personal contribution?

LOL, I'm betting my questions don't deserve answers, right? Instead of a straightforward answer, you'll come back with another personal slam. How about working on the local level with the rest of us for once to find real solutions to real problems? "

Ynrbcm1 wrote on May 29, 2009 2:12 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on May 29, 2009 7:17 AM:

" Mr. Andres Medic addressed your question, but lets expand the sweep of our net a bit. Are you aware of the need for food banks and pantrys in our area? Are you aware of the statistics are undernourished children in the US, one of the wealthiest countries in the world and we have undernourished children. Are you aware of the numbers of people without health insurance who die each year for lack of adequate medical care? Are you aware of anything beyond your own self? "
........
I have recently begun to read some of the posts written by all of you fine people, and must say that I am appalled at all of the arguing and bitterness that seems to be expressed.
Susan, we live in the same town, and I personally know of at least two food pantries that are open to anyone who has need. One of these pantries is located in our hometown of Oakland and is operated by the Oakland Ministerial Association withe help of volunteers. The other food pantry is one that you may pass on your way to Charleston, located in Ashmore. It is also operated by a local church with the support of the community. Both of these pantries came out of a vision that Sister Helen Taylor of Brocton, IL had as she ran the House of Refuge Mission north of Oakland.
If you ever met Helen, you would realize that she never had an unkind word for anyone or about anyone. In her service to her fellow man, she found a way to serve her Lord, Jesus Christ. She was a wonderful example of what it truly means to be a Christian, and these food pantries are part of her legacy.
These are two examples that I know about, of the Church trying to reach out to its community, and by the way, Church membership is not required. "

ynrbcm1 wrote on May 29, 2009 2:40 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on May 28, 2009 3:11 PM:
" UnknownJoe yes it is the job of churches and families to help those in need. But the reality is they don't, or they only help their own kind. The government has no choice but to step in and pick up the slack. Or do you think people should be allowed to starve and freeze to death when times are tough? "
.....

Susan, we come from the same town and you are unaware of the Oakland food pantry that is operated by the Oakland Ministerial association and staffed by volunteers. It serves anyone who is in need.
On your way to Charleston, have you not noticed the Ashmore Food Pantry that is operated by Tri-County Community Church with the help and support of other churches and individuals in the community?? Again, open to and willing to serve anyone in need. "

Responsible Party wrote on May 29, 2009 7:37 PM:

" Tom Andres and Ynrbcm1...thank you for your posts. I hope they will inspire someone to become part of the solution.

There is nothing so humbling as serving someone with a need...and nothing so fulfilling as helping to meet that need. For those who don't believe me...just try it. "

shumphreys wrote on May 29, 2009 8:19 PM:

" Mr. YNR I was asking Mr. Andres if he was aware that there is a NEED for food banks and pantrys in this area. By that I mean is he aware that there are hungry people in this area that need those services. Does that make my statement clearer for you? There is more than one way to read what I wrote, I will grant that. But you are certainly quick to judge. I am well aware of the services offered in the surrounding communities and I support them. "

shumphreys wrote on May 29, 2009 8:23 PM:

" Mr. Andres I support Planned Parenthood and other worthy organizations. I also give of my time to three non-profit groups in this area. My career was spent working for non-profit agencies. And what do you do Mr. Andres? My questions do deserve an answer since your posts seem to show that you aren't aware of those that are in need and suffering around you. "

Responsible Party wrote on May 29, 2009 9:46 PM:

" What?? That is not the impression that I get. I do not know Mr. Andres, but my impression was that he is not only aware of local needs, but involved and supportive in efforts to make positive changes. But, his efforts seem directed to the grassroot groups rather than government subsidized pseudo-charities. In my view, that makes him an informed and judicious donor. "

Tom Andres wrote on May 29, 2009 10:19 PM:

" shumphreys says: My questions do deserve an answer since your posts seem to show that you aren't aware of those that are in need and suffering around you."

Like I said before, lady, ............ "

Harry Potter wrote on May 30, 2009 6:19 AM:

" I'm a little dismayed that you seem to be shying away from Susan's question, Tom. Especially when you have the audacity to practically demand answers from her on your questions. Could it be that you really don't have an answer, other than to say her questions don't deserve an answer? Really Tom, I'm a little disappointed in you for your this cowardly response to her fair question. "

shumphreys wrote on May 30, 2009 6:43 AM:

" Like I said before Mr. Andres what do you do? "

shumphreys wrote on May 30, 2009 6:45 AM:

" Are you aware Responsible party of Bushs "faith based" initiative program that gave federal dollars to faith based programs. Is that what you mean by "government subsidized pseudo charities"? "

kamfong wrote on May 30, 2009 8:43 AM:

" I agree with unknown joe about a civil war. "

M wrote on May 30, 2009 12:25 PM:

" kamfong, George Washington said, "Experience teaches us that it is much easier to prevent an enemy from posting themselves than it is to dislodge them after they have gotten possession".

Any idea how to build a mushroom cloud resistant fort? "

Tom Andres wrote on May 30, 2009 4:06 PM:

" Harry, LOL, I've decided to take the same position Obama did when he was asked to produce his OFFICIAL certificate of birth. You know, back in the campaign days when his own grandmother said he was foreign born. (I'm sure it was coincidental, but that woman died shortly after making that embarrassing admission.)

Ah, but back to shumph. IMHO, shes a spiteful, vindictive woman, and my mamma, the one who was always comparing life to a box of chocolates, my mamma, said I doesn't have to pay no mind to no spiteful and vindictive folks. So, being a good boy who always minds his mamma and all, I doesn't pay no mind to shumph, and I certainly doesn't answers her curve ball questions.

Oops, I hope she don't read this. She'll be a comin after me agin. "

Responsible Party wrote on May 30, 2009 4:27 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on May 30, 2009 6:45 AM:

" Are you aware Responsible party of Bushs "faith based" initiative program that gave federal dollars to faith based programs. Is that what you mean by "government subsidized pseudo charities"? "

Yes, I am aware of this--and, yes, some of them could fall into the pseudo-charity category, although the guidelines as set forth in the program should prevent such abuse. There is very precise language specifying requirements to guarantee that the funds are not to be used in any way to support the faith-based organization. The monies are to allow an already successful program to serve more people.

If government monies are used to support the organization itself--pay large salaries and promote an agenda not related to the feeding and caring for people in need, then they are not true charities. I am personally opposed to individual churches obtaining federal funds for any purpose. Does that answer your question? "

kamfong wrote on May 30, 2009 4:52 PM:

" M seriously I currently live in a fairly new graber building in the country that has a prefabbed fallout shelter within,doubtful if it would withstand the mushroom cloud day.I would love to see peace and harmony in the world.We have very little control of the shape this world has gotten into It's all about power,greed,money and control,there can only be one boss nobody wants to share that control of the world but nobody wants to be dictated too either.People in control of the country we live have done very scandalous things to other countries we no nothing about or had no say in and some countries refuse to have their toes stepped on.I don't know whats going to happen but something's gotta give.When citizens of large magnatudes start experiencing REAL hunger survival instincts will set in and there will be mass civil unrest in this country,I believe it's already happening.If there is to be a schroom cloud it probably won't matter anyway even if some survived there wouldn't be much left to live for.If I had my rathers,I would have loved to live the wild wild west days, thats excitement.Have a nice weekend. "

The Question wrote on May 30, 2009 5:23 PM:

" Why did the Bush-Cheney scum come up with the term Compassionate Conservatism," apparently feeling the strange need to advertise their claim to an empathy common to all decent human beings? Because they knew that many Americans had accurately assessed their complete indifference to the fate of working class, the poor, the disabled and the elderly. In reality, right wingers regard the weak and helpless as "losers" and they laugh in contempt at them -- proving that they, themselves, are completely contemptible. "

7X6Z9 wrote on May 30, 2009 6:43 PM:

" "My career was spent working for non-profit agencies."
---------

Did you receive wages for your services Ms Humphreys? Or were you independently wealthy? "

7X6Z9 wrote on May 30, 2009 6:49 PM:

" "My questions do deserve an answer"
----------

You didn't feel the need to answer any questions about your sexual orientation Ms Humphreys, yet you demand that others respond to your interrogations.

You have a good many admirable traits (I'm sure) Ms Humphreys. Unfortunately Madam, self-awareness in not one of them. "

medic57 wrote on May 30, 2009 7:53 PM:

" Any idea how to build a mushroom cloud resistant fort?

Back in Eisenhauer and Kennedy's day, they just told us to go to the closest fallout shelter, you remember those don't you? The basement at the local schools. Let's see, Eisenhauer was a Republican and Kennedy was a Democrat, nice mis-information from our government. "

medic57 wrote on May 30, 2009 11:50 PM:

" With our ability to print untold numbers of sheets of paper with any number of numerals and zeroes denominating its value, if one should happen to slip through not backed by The Full Faith and Credit of the government, wouldnt it be about as valuable and stimulate economy in like manner?

Dont get me wrong: I am not in favor of counterfeit money!

Neither am I in favor of creating a counterfeit economy based upon spending un-collected future taxes in an attempt to buy prosperity today. The Piper will have to be paid!

And yet, it was a Republican (Nixon) who removed us from the Gold Standard and started printing however much we needed, it was another Republican (Bush) who gave the 1st 700 billion to the banks. And I am sure, as a banker, you would have taken your cut. "

M wrote on May 31, 2009 10:30 AM:

" kamfong, I envy your place in the country. I think you are in a better position than most when it comes to facing civil unrest or whatever you want to call it. I can see that you're in a better position than I am at least. In town, stick home, crazy neighbors who think my yard is a public park...not talking about their kids either. Crazy I tell ya.
Hope you're having a nice weekend as well.
Medic57-If you were asking me, personally, whether or not I remember the fall-out shelter scares of the 50's I must say that I came along a little later than that but have heard stories. I was told that the desk over my head would save me. lol ps- don't tell Potter that I am not a senior citizen...I am trying to get a free cup of coffee and I suspect he expects to get my senior discount. lol "

M wrote on May 31, 2009 10:35 AM:

" ps, kamfong, I forgot to say that I actually agree with the rest of your post; although, I'm not the best on a horse but it would've definitely been exciting. "

The Question wrote on May 31, 2009 12:16 PM:

" There are two kinds of Republicans: millionaires and suckers. "

shumphreys wrote on May 31, 2009 2:46 PM:

" 7X you didn't ask me about my sexual orientation you asked if I was married and had children. Which is none of your business. My sexual orientation also is none of your business. What I do in the privacy of my home is none of your business. As I pointed out one does not have to be a homosexual, have had an abortion, be a Christian/Hindu/Buddhist/Taoist/Atheist, to have knowledge,compassion and understanding for them, their religion, their group, their cause. "

shumphreys wrote on May 31, 2009 2:49 PM:

" Oh and 7X self-awareness by the way is also not one of YOUR traits, nor is compassion, respect for those that are different, tolerance. In fact you appear to be too aware of your self and not aware of others. "

shumphreys wrote on May 31, 2009 2:50 PM:

" 7x my financial situation is none of your business. I am by the way very wealthy in ways that you might never imagine. "

shumphreys wrote on May 31, 2009 2:56 PM:

" Yes it does Responsible Party. So what other organizations qualify as pseudo-charities in your book? Planned Parenthood, the Red Cross, UNICEF, the World Wildlife Fund, organizations that fight Aids and other diseases in developing countries, Doctors without borders, ....? "

reddual wrote on May 31, 2009 7:17 PM:

" Well written, Mr. Bauer! I agree completely. "

Harry Potter wrote on May 31, 2009 8:28 PM:

" Tom Andres wrote on May 30, 2009 4:06 PM:

" Harry, LOL, I've decided to take the same position Obama did.....

Normally you don't hide from questions, Tom. What's up? How about a straight answer for a change? "

7X6Z9 wrote on May 31, 2009 10:33 PM:

" Ms Humphreys, your sexual orientation can have a definite formation on your attitude toward certain Christians. And you openly stated that your career was spent working for non-profit agencies. That involves everyone's finances, and your compensation for such work is a legitimate question.
-------

"Oh and 7X self-awareness by the way is also not one of YOUR traits, nor is compassion, respect for those that are different, tolerance. In fact you appear to be too aware of your self and not aware of others."
--------

Why would you say that Madam?
I am very tolerant and I try to have compassion for everyone. I do respect those who are different even though I may not respect their choices.
My faith in Christ revolves around the key reality that we are all broken in one way or another. And I try to be aware of my own weaknesses and wounds. My sins. You see, I am converted daily because I fall daily.

I believe you are a truly compassionate individual Ms Humphreys and I have read enough of your posts to recognize that God is alive in your heart by your concern for the outcasts and the helpless. Christ has made you wealthy indeed, whether you acknowledge Him or not. "

medic57 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 7:50 AM:

" It seems that Republicans can only complain but have no better ideas to put forward to get us out of this mess.

Susan, Their idea was the same, remember, it was Bush who gave out the 1st 700 Billion, of course, the Republicans thought that was just fine, at least until the Dems started doing it. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 1, 2009 8:18 AM:

" 7X I am not running for public office, or saint of the year. My sexual orientation, my marital status, my financial situation, is none of YOUR business. They have nothing and I stress NOTHING to do with the validity of my arguments. Adress the issues sir not the person. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 1, 2009 8:19 AM:

" I said that Mr. 7X (that you self-awareness is not one of your traits) because you said it wasn't one of mine. Do unto others sir. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 1, 2009 8:27 AM:

" Sorry 7x enlightenment has made me wealthy and taught me compassion,I not only have Christ in my soul he sits alongside Buddha, Lao Tzu, Herman Hesse, Plato, Hemingway, Zoroaster, Black Elk, Carlos Casteneda,.....and a whole host of others. None are higher in the pecking order than any of the others, all are "holy" divine sons of God. Just as you and I are a son and daughter of God and the Gods and of god. We all come from that same primordial stewpot where we will all return. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 10:59 AM:

" "My sexual orientation, my marital status, my financial situation, is none of YOUR business. They have nothing and I stress NOTHING to do with the validity of my arguments. Adress the issues sir not the person."
---------

With all due respect Ms Humphreys, your relentless letters and posts lecturing Christians about their hypocrisies has made you (the person) the central issue here.

Who are you to lecture others about morals?

Your choice of lifestyle- is an action.
Your charitable acts- are actions.
Your boasts of charitable works- are also actions.

What makes you an exception to your own criticisms Madam? "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 11:05 AM:

" "I said that Mr. 7X (that you self-awareness is not one of your traits) because you said it wasn't one of mine. Do unto others sir."
---------

My statement was based on observation Ms Humphreys, your's was based on revenge. I would have you do unto me the favor of pointing out my shortcomings. That is why I asked you for an explanation, Madam. "

medic57 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 11:56 AM:

" As for the man who froze to death...you cannot meet a need unless you know it exists.

Tom

NO ONE should have their heat shut off in Sub Zero weather for ANY reason. The City didn't even try to contact him. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 1, 2009 2:59 PM:

" 7X your comments weren't based on observations they were based on prejudiced and frustrations.My statement wasn't based on revenge it was for the purpose of demonstration/instruction. You don't like being accused of qualities that don't fit any more than I or any other person likes being accused/charged with qualities that don't fit. The perceived qualities of the person speaking aren't at issue in this dialogue, the points being made about the topic at hand are what's important. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 1, 2009 3:07 PM:

" 7x you ask "who am I to lecture anyone about morals". Who are Christians to lecture (rebuke as Mr. Hendren likes to put it) others about their morals? Who are you? Do you demand to know the marital status, sexual orientation, and financial situation of ALL writers of Letters to the Editors and ALL of those who post on these online pages? Asking only me is called a double standard, one for one group and something different for another or another person. Information about my background is no more important than information about your background, or the Questions or Harry Potter or Mr. Hendren or Crow Woman or Bps or....... Quite honestly I have no need to know what everyones marital status, sexual orientation, financial situation is because it is their ideas that are important, ideas that stand or fall on their own merits. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 1, 2009 3:27 PM:

" Quite honestly I have no need to know what everyones marital status, sexual orientation, financial situation is because it is their ideas that are important, ideas that stand or fall on their own merits. "

Excellent point, and I'm with you on this one Susan. Your personal life as well as mine, and anyone else's for that matter, is no ones da^* business. I think it takes a lot of gall to press on with questions about those things. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 4:24 PM:

" You're the one leading this crusade with constant letters and posts demanding that everyone accept alternative lifestyles, Ms Humphreys.
And you were openly boasting about your charitable work Madam.
You have remarked that you fear nothing and yet, you desperately run from any inquiries about your own personal choices, and you cry "foul" when you are asked the financial details about your proclaimed generosity.
You have put your name out here, and you have appointed yourself as the supreme teacher of wisdom and enlightenment for all of society.

Forgive me for having the gall to dare question your perfection Ms Humphreys. I am guilty of accepting your boast of fearlessness at face value. I can assure you Madam, I will not make the mistake of holding you to your word ever again.

Forgive me Lord, for I have cast a stone at a stone thrower's glass house. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 4:40 PM:

" The unmitigated gall of Gallup Polling,
providing timely evidence that there is a correlation between personal experience and attitudes towards alternative lifestyle issues.
----------

Gallup Poll May 29, 2009 -
Knowing Someone Gay/Lesbian Affects Views of Gay Issues

Opposition to gay marriage higher among those who do not know someone who is gay/lesbian

D.C. -- While 57% of Americans oppose legalizing gay marriage, Americans who personally know someone who is gay or lesbian are almost evenly divided on the matter, with 49% in favor and 47% opposed. Among those who do not personally know anyone who is gay, 72% oppose legalized gay marriage while just 27% favor it. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 1, 2009 4:45 PM:

" Cheney on gay marriage: "Freedom means freedom for everyone"

Barack Obama: "marriage is between a man and a woman" "

acidburn wrote on Jun 1, 2009 4:52 PM:

" 7X6Z9

I have known many Gays and Lesbians, including some that were related and I still believe that it is completely wrong. Why is it that when you go into a regular bar, the patrons act completely normal, (at least within reason) yet, you go into a Gay bar and they are acting in the most revolting ways you can imagine. Go to The C Street Bar in Champaign and go up to the 3rd level and see if you don't leave in about 10 minutes, puking your guts out as you leave. "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 1, 2009 5:10 PM:

" Hmmm...you seem pretty familiar with the activities in gay establishments acidburn, so what were you doing there? lol! "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 1, 2009 5:19 PM:

" No 7x I wasn't boasting about my charitable work, I was challenged by Mr. Andres to prove that I support charitable organizations. Although why he would think that making a statement that I do or don't is proof of anything is beyond me. Notice also that when he was asked his own question he refused to answer. "

acidburn wrote on Jun 1, 2009 5:22 PM:

" HP

I went there with my wife, her brother and his FRIEND took us in. Funny, when a straight person goes into a Gay Bar, a lot of the Gays will go out of their way to make them feel uncomfortable. Why is that? "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 1, 2009 5:23 PM:

" I haven't run anywhere 7X I am right here and responding to legitimate questions. AND by the way you didn't ask for proof of my charitable contributions, you demanded to know my financial situation, what I was paid when I worked for non-profit agencies and how I support myself now. I'll tell you what, you answer all your questions first, post your financial records on these pages and then I will post mine. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 1, 2009 5:26 PM:

" Of course you have to accept my "boast" of my enlightenment/fearlessness at face value just as I have to accept yours that you are a "Christian". "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 1, 2009 5:42 PM:

" Oh and 7X two more points I don't demand anything, I just point out the errors, immorality and hypocrisy in other folks statements and arguments. AND it appears that you are the one running away (hiding) since you post under an assumed/fake name. I at least have the courage and strength of character to post under my real name. What are you hiding Mr. 7X? "

Kamfong wrote on Jun 1, 2009 6:16 PM:

" Acid burn,what in the world did you eat on that 3rd floor that made you puke? "

acidburn wrote on Jun 1, 2009 6:46 PM:

" Kamfong wrote on Jun 1, 2009 6:16 PM:

" Acid burn,what in the world did you eat on that 3rd floor that made you puke? "

Kamfong

Absolutely nothing. It's what was going on that was sickening. "

The Question wrote on Jun 1, 2009 7:32 PM:

" I have known many Gays and Lesbians, including some that were related and I still believe that it is completely wrong.
----
What "believe" is "completely wrong" is worth about the price of GM right now. Who gives a rodent's posterior? Keep your nose out of other people's private lives. "

acidburn wrote on Jun 1, 2009 9:31 PM:

" he Question wrote: Who gives a rodent's posterior? Keep your nose out of other people's private lives.

You mean like this guy.

I have always been here, and I always will be. You can not, you will not, change or get rid of me. I am gay. And I will remind you every chance I get.

COREY TAYLOR

Charleston

A post from a new thread. "

The Question wrote on Jun 2, 2009 8:26 AM:

" Yes, Acidhead, I mean like that guy. Keep your nose out of his private life. Nobody cares what you think of his sexual orientation, or anything else. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 2, 2009 8:48 AM:

" What good is it to post under your real name Ms Humphreys when you provide no real information about your personal "actions"? Without any real details about your life, your name may as well be Jane Dough. After all, you placed yourself in this role, you invited the spotlight upon yourself.
I suspect that your zealous fervor against Christianity is borne out of a deep-rooted guilt over your own sordid lifestyle. And I further suspect that your "career" with "non-profit" organizations was well compensated. I don't know, but I wonder if your charitable "acts" were somewhat easier for you because of your family wealth?

The point is this Ms Humphreys; You have appointed yourself the moral authority of Christian actions. Therefore it is more than just that you should be completely open and honest about all aspects of your own personal actions. You are quick to judge hypocrisy in others, yet you are adamant that we have no right to now any personal details that might reveal your own hypocrisy's.
When you call on others to examine themselves, be prepared to give others the opportunity to fully examine you. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 2, 2009 10:08 AM:

" "Keep your nose out of his private life. Nobody cares what you think of his sexual orientation, or anything else."
----------

Then he should stop making his "private" life public.

You're right, we don't care about his sexual orientation. Yet he insists on shoving it under our noses, as if the smell will somehow improve by obnoxious force. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 2, 2009 10:47 AM:

" My goodnes 7X I (or my alter egos)have been living a wilder more "sordid" life than I realize. Details about my life are none of your business. Do you demand that ALL Christians that write letters to the editor and posters on these threads, declaring that other religions should not be tolerated or that those that believe in Evolution are a threat to the morals of society, or that God hates homosexuals tell you the "sordid" details of their past. Or is that just something you demand ONLY of a person who tells the TRUTH, the validity of whose ideas you can't dispute, a person who isn't intimidated by the likes of you? Grow up 7X there are some things in this world that are simply NONE of your business. Oh and I post under my own name because I write Letters to the Editor which requires people to use their own names, and give their addresses and phone numbers for thier records. Since my name is already out there there is no reason not to post on these threads under my own name. But it is obvious you on the otherhand have something to hide. What is your secret, what "sordid" mysteries are you hiding, what deep-rooted guilt do you hold Mr. 7X? "

jrussell wrote on Jun 2, 2009 11:19 AM:

" i like how many self proclaimed economists have popped up lately yet nothing is turning around much, groceries are going up and gas, surely Obama has heard all sides and ideas about the economy and still...the economy will do what the economy will do "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 2, 2009 12:52 PM:

" Do you demand that ALL Christians that write letters to the editor and posters on these threads, declaring that other religions should not be tolerated or that those that believe in Evolution are a threat to the morals of society, or that God hates homosexuals tell you the "sordid" details of their past."
-----------

If their posts and letters were as voluminous and relentless as your zealous crusade has been, Ms Humphreys, then yes, yes I would.

And I would venture to guess that the vast majority of them would be eager to expound on the sinful lives that they lived, and the change that Christ brought to their lives. You of course Ms Humphreys could continue to point out their ongoing sinfulness as I'm sure you would.

The obvious question here is, why would you, Ms Humphreys, a woman who fervently preaches that our actions are the only real substance of our existence, would run away from the golden opportunity to use your own actions and the details of your own life as the prime example of your ultimate enlightenment and truth?

In fact Ms Humphreys, since you elevate yourself as the harbor of "Truth" why would you not allow all of humanity to intimately examine your god-like life?

We Christians are acknowledged sinners and hypocrites, Ms Humphreys, you on the other hand proclaim that you are not. Therefore Madam, why deny us the intimate details of your path to perfection? Who knows what jewels of wisdom may come from it. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 2, 2009 3:08 PM:

" Of course not 7X I know that mere mortals like you could never live up to my perfection and it would be unfair to expect you to be as perfect as I am. Grow up. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 2, 2009 3:13 PM:

" 7X and what do you keep shoving under his and others noses? Your self-rightousness and hypocrisy? Honestly, you are so full of yorself. I'd much rather see loving gay couples walking down the street holding hands than folks with their noses shoved up their you know what. Get a life and quit being incensed by others lives. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 2, 2009 4:13 PM:

" I apologize if I offended you Ms Humphreys, that was not my intent.

My point was sincere. I do at times suffer from hypocrisy, it is my human nature, as it is for all of us.

All I was trying to say Ms Humphreys, is that, as a Christian, I look outside of myself to Christ for perfection, for The Truth. And since you claim to have discovered the truth inwards, then why would you not tell us all the details of your inner being? Since we have examined The Truth that is Jesus Christ ad nauseam, it is only logical to closely scrutinize your inner being and your path to your truth. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 2, 2009 4:16 PM:

" "I not only have Christ in my soul he sits alongside Buddha, Lao Tzu, Herman Hesse, Plato, Hemingway, Zoroaster, Black Elk, Carlos Casteneda,.....and a whole host of others."
----------

Is there no place for me in your heart, Ms Humphreys? "

Harry Potter wrote on Jun 2, 2009 7:26 PM:

" I went there with my wife, her brother and his FRIEND took us in. Funny, when a straight person goes into a Gay Bar, a lot of the Gays will go out of their way to make them feel uncomfortable. Why is that? "

I have had just the opposite experience. Several years ago while living in Lexington Ky, my wife and I along with several friends from the local university used to go to a Discotech called Johnny Angel's and I never experienced any such hostility. Everyone, both straight and gay, seemed to be there to have a good time. Perhaps your attitude was evident. I have to admit that was my only experience going into a place that had a lot of gays there. I would guess that it was about a fifty fifty ratio. And perhaps things have changed. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 2, 2009 8:36 PM:

" Because 7X everyones "innerbeing" is unique and special to them, it isn't open for public scrutiny, criticism, or examination. Just as for a person who believes in God, that is solely between them and their God, whether they call that God Allah, Great Spirit, Jehovah,Ahura Mazda, or something else. AND it is the same for a person who is a non-believer, the inner workings of their soul is their business.If you want to know how I arrived at my place of being so that you too can find the peace and compassion and understanding that I have found I will tell you I read (about history, science, psychology, sociology,religion, mythology) I think, I observe (I watch the news, read newspapers and magazines)and most importantly I ask questions. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 2, 2009 8:39 PM:

" 7X you are a long way from mastering this thing we call life, when you do and if you do in this life time, and if I am still around to recognize your accomplishment than you will also sit alongside the others. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 2, 2009 8:54 PM:

" "I read (about history, science, psychology, sociology,religion, mythology) I think, I observe (I watch the news, read newspapers and magazines)and most importantly I ask questions."
------------

But Ms Humphreys, you forgot to engage in the most important action of all- prayer. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 2, 2009 9:00 PM:

" Oh and 7X ones soul isn't ones heart, a soul is the core of ones being. There is always a place in ones heart for lost and hurt dogs, cats, birds, turtles, frogs,............and even some humans. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 2, 2009 9:03 PM:

" "Just as for a person who believes in God, that is solely between them and their God,"
----------

With all due respect Ms Humphreys, you have scrutinized my God. You are in essence declaring yourself to be your own god. When do we get to examine your "god"? "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 2, 2009 9:24 PM:

" "Oh and 7X ones soul isn't ones heart, a soul is the core of ones being. There is always a place in ones heart for lost and hurt dogs, cats, birds, turtles, frogs,............and even some humans."
---------

Sorry to disagree with you Ms Humphreys, but the heart, the mind, our thoughts and emotions, are all part of the soul. And you are in mine, Ms Humphreys. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 3, 2009 7:04 AM:

" Heavens 7X prayer doesn't accomplish anything other than make you feel better which I don't find necessary. Prayer can be one of supplication, asking for/pleading for help/guidance, it can also be one of giving thanks. But one doesn't have to pray to a God to be thankful for each day.

I don't claim to be God because there is no God in the Theistic sense of the word. God is a creation of human imagination if they choose to create such an image.I don't have need for such an image.

As to the origins of life, one theory is as good as another, there is no proof of any. So I am content to accept the reality that no one living knows what set off the "Big Bang", that happy chance in that great cosmic stewpot, an asteroid or probe from some distant civilization, or a God of some kind. So again I have no need to put myself forth as the creator of mankind, I think we all create ourselves, metaphorically speaking. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 3, 2009 7:08 AM:

" Our soul 7X is the sum total of our being, where we have been, our abilities and disabilities, our knowledge and lack of knowledge, our experiences, who we are, and our future potentialities. One can be in one's heart (on a temporary basis, on probation) and not be a permanant part of ones soul. As I said you have a long way to go before you Master the art of this thing we call living, when and if you do in this life, and if I am still around to recognize your accomplishment you can have a place in my soul alongside the other Masters. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 3, 2009 12:13 PM:

" I'm sorry to hear that your spiritual journey began with your mind predetermined and decidedly closed to the concept of prayer, Ms Humphreys. Prayer is only as valid as one's willingness to accept the possibility that God can respond.
Your path seems to have been chosen away from a Theistic God from the onset.

I'm glad to hear that you are at least open to the possibility that Divine intervention could be responsible for the origins of the universe.

The problem with attributing the "Big Bang" with an asteroid or probe from some distant civilization is the fact that that distant civilization would have needed a big bang for it's own origins and of course this process would have had to come from an infinite cycle progressing backwards.

The problem here is that Gravitational theory predicts that under the extreme conditions that prevailed in the early universe, space and time must have been so distorted that there existed a boundary, or "singularity," at which the distortion of space-time was infinite, and therefore through which space and time cannot have continued.

In other words Ms Humphreys, The Big Bang was the beginning of time itself. No asteroid, probe, or much less, a distant civilization could have possibly existed.

The "Something" that existed at this "singularity", was beyond time itself.

Sounds like the definition of God, doesn't it Madam. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 3, 2009 2:25 PM:

" And the problem with God creating the Universe 7X is who created God. We can go indefinitely around and around and around and come to no definitive answer as I said. Now you are getting to much exercise jumping to conclusions just as Mr. Hendren, what makes you think I started my spiritual journey with a predetermined and closed concept of prayer? Are you assuming that because I have rejected the concept and you can't imagine an intelligent person rejecting what you believe in? Face it 7X there are many paths through the woods and each of us has to find and follow the path that is right for us, no one path is better than any other path, and they all in the end lead us back to that primordial stewpot from whence we all came. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 3, 2009 2:29 PM:

" No 7X that doesn't sound at all like a description of a bearded man, who is all knowing, all powerful, who has a temper and seeks revenge, who is self-centered and demands obeisance to his every whim, who interferes in the affairs of man when he chooses, in other words the theistic concept of God. That sounds like someone who has been imbibing in a bit too much wine. It sounds more to me like that happy chance I first mentioned. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 3, 2009 2:32 PM:

" Actually 7X that sounds alot like the Buddhists concept of awakening not a being to be worshipped. It also sounds like the American Indian concept of Great Spirit that flows through all living things, the breath of God from the Hidu concept, certainly nothing Judaic or Christian. "

Becky wrote on Jun 3, 2009 3:32 PM:

" "You have remarked that you fear nothing and yet, you desperately run from any inquiries about your own personal choices"

Refusing to answer your questions is hardly running away from them. It's simply telling you it's none of your business and she's right. Just because the great 7X demands answers doesn't mean she must answer them. "

Becky wrote on Jun 3, 2009 3:37 PM:

" "And since you claim to have discovered the truth inwards, then why would you not tell us all the details of your inner being?"

Because that's where Christ/God/our Creator is. Why go outside for answers when they are all right there inside of you? You don't need a "middle man" for divine teaching. "

Becky wrote on Jun 3, 2009 3:44 PM:

" "But Ms Humphreys, you forgot to engage in the most important action of all- prayer. "

No 7X, we don't pray because God is not some far off being needing some ritual/rite to contact. He's constantly in contact with us and we are in constant contact with Him. We have a conversation with Him every second of every day. When we meditate it allows us to turn off the outside world and comminicate directly with God. This is when They renew our hearts and souls with love and peace. This is when They heal the wounds of this cruel world and allows us to, once again face another day walking in the light and love of the divine so we can share the truth about the true Creator and our true meaning of why we are here. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 3, 2009 8:45 PM:

" "Because that's where Christ/God/our Creator is. Why go outside for answers when they are all right there inside of you? You don't need a "middle man" for divine teaching."
---------

Then why not tell us all the details of your inner being, Becky? Why not share the good, the bad, and yes, the ugly?

I agree Becky, prayer does not require a rite or a ritual, and I agree completely that God is near us and in us, every second of our lives. And meditation is merely a form of prayer for a Christian. Monks and nuns have practiced this form of prayer for centuries. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 3, 2009 8:46 PM:

" "I read (about history, science, psychology, sociology,religion, mythology) I think, I observe (I watch the news, read newspapers and magazines)and most importantly I ask questions. "
--------

Nowhere do you mention prayer, Ms Humphreys. This glaring omission led me to conclude that your spiritual journey began with your mind predetermined and decidedly closed to the concept of prayer. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 3, 2009 8:49 PM:

" "And the problem with God creating the Universe 7X is who created God."
--------

God by His very definition was never created, Ms Humphreys. As I said earlier, God is beyond time itself, that is His very essence. In The Bible God refers to Himself as "I Am Who Am". He is the uncreated Creator.
This modern scientific theory of the origin of the universe, that this "big bang" was the coming into being of time itself, is not new or modern at all.
It was proposed long ago in the 5th century by St. Augustine of Hippo who claimed that the world was made "not in time, but simultaneously with time."
This concept most certainly does fit the Christian concept from long ago. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 4, 2009 8:11 AM:

" You jump to conclusions 7X, like Mr. Hendren and others you see what you want to see. Beckys spiritual journey like anyone elses is personal, for her eyes only. Unlike Christians who constantly feel to need to prove how holy they are "sharing",
"testifying", about how they were "saved". For the Gnostic there is no need to prove to others with words what is shown daily by ones actions. Becky by the way (I think) considers herself a Gnostic Christian. Just another example of the great variety and wonderful possibilities for people to find their own path. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 4, 2009 12:50 PM:

" Sorry 7X only nothing comes from nothing. If there is a God he like everything else had to come from somewhere. As the Creationists love to say, you can't create nothing from nothing. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 4, 2009 12:51 PM:

" Time isn't the Christian concept of God 7X read your Bible. "

BW wrote on Jun 4, 2009 1:34 PM:

" Shumphreys, could you post a few more? I don't think you've quite hit your minimum on this one yet. "

Becky wrote on Jun 4, 2009 2:10 PM:

" Sophia Gnostic actually, Susan :-) "

The Question wrote on Jun 4, 2009 2:34 PM:

" Yes, please do post more, Susan, if you feel so inclined. I always enjoy reading your insightful posts, and apparently BW does as well. "

BW wrote on Jun 4, 2009 3:12 PM:

" TQ, You bet I do. You sweetheart, you. "

BW wrote on Jun 4, 2009 3:17 PM:

" TQ, I take notes on Susan's posts because I just know there's gonna be a quiz. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 4, 2009 4:21 PM:

" "Sorry 7X only nothing comes from nothing.
----------

Ms Humphreys, that's exactly what I've been saying. The Big Bang had to come from an intelligence beyond time and space.

"If there is a God he like everything else had to come from somewhere."
----------

No Ms Humphreys, according to the Big Bang theory there was no "spacetime" before the singularity. There was no space, there was no time, so there was no "somewhere" from which to come. God was not created. He simply is.

"Time isn't the Christian concept of God 7X read your Bible."
----------

That is exactly what I said Madam. God is beyond time. That is exactly what St. Augustine concluded as well. I'm glad we agree on that.

You're confused Ms Humphreys, and that's perfectly normal. Even science recognizes that concepts like spacetime and multiple dimensions are actually beyond true human understanding. Of course, so is the true nature of God. "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, nor are your ways my ways, says the LORD. As high as the heavens are above the earth, so high are my ways above your ways and my thoughts above your thoughts." - Isaiah 55:9 "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 4, 2009 4:24 PM:

" See 7X several different varieties of Gnostics. Isn't it wonderful? And BW the skys the limit, certainly no limits to my insightful and stimulating posts! Although there might be limits to your ability to comprehend them. "

BW wrote on Jun 4, 2009 4:42 PM:

" shumphreys, what makes you think so? You're mistaking your hot air for insight and stimulation. I comprehend what you say but I just can't get myself to care much about it. You have repeatedly demonstrated that the slightest disagreement with your bull merits your instant wrath. Go for it. "

7X6Z9 wrote on Jun 4, 2009 5:00 PM:

" "See 7X several different varieties of Gnostics. Isn't it wonderful?"
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Yes it is Ms Humphreys. You can't even agree amongst yourselves much less with science.

Just kidding Ms Humphreys, I wish you nothing but the best. :-) "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 5, 2009 7:55 AM:

" Of course we agree amongst ourselves 7X we agree that variety is the spice of life, that each person has to follow his or her muse or path. We agree on what is important. "

shumphreys wrote on Jun 5, 2009 7:57 AM:

" Ah yes my posts show my "instant wrath" it is called disdainful humor BW, posting fun at your foolishness. "

Rockin Rotty wrote on Jun 5, 2009 9:36 PM:

" [coughs]

.......

Eh, another ex-county board member....

Nuff said. "

jrussell wrote on Jun 8, 2009 3:01 PM:

" 7x6z9 has a history of asking personal questions susan, its funny how a name change didn't do much for the dogs personality lol "