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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

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Wednesday, May 6, 2009 10:21 PM CDT
COLUMN: Waterboarding or your next boring staff meeting at work: You choose

By PENNY WEAVER, News Editor
pweaver@jg-tc.com

In today’s over-the-top, exaggeration-focused world of TV talking heads, I’m surprised that no commentator yet has done the obvious: volunteered to undergo waterboarding.

Just where is Geraldo Rivera when we need him?

Maybe the more newsy type Anderson Cooper of CNN should try it. I’m positive it would get great ratings: Most women — and some men I know, too — would like to watch the handsome Cooper do most anything.

Well. There I go on a tangent again.

Any-hoo, I know you haven’t missed all the discussion over waterboarding and other “harsh interrogation techniques” authorized by the Bush administration on accused terrorists, particularly in the wake of the 9/11 attacks.

For anyone who got lost mushroom hunting last year and just now scrambled back into society, waterboarding basically simulates drowning in an effort used by interrogators to get their prisoners to reveal helpful information.

First of all, I’m ashamed that America — which we all, me included, certainly believe is the greatest nation on Earth — would torture anyone, for any reason.

Oh, I know all the arguments. “Would you not waterboard someone if it could have prevented the thousands of deaths on 9/11?” That’s a popular one.

Actually, no, I wouldn’t. Did the saying “the ends do not justify the means” go out of favor or something? I also think that if you torture — um, I mean, “harshly interrogate” — someone, you’re more likely to get false information.

Wouldn’t you say almost anything, give any lie, to get someone to quit doing something mean to you? Most people would.

If we as Americans hold ourselves up on a pedestal as a great nation, it makes no sense to me that we would then stoop to the lowest common denominator of tactics and act like barbarians, “war on terror” or not.

Or, to quote “Seinfeld’s” George Costanza: “We’re LIVING ... in a SOCIETY...!”

Second, I can think of lots of better ways to persuade someone to give our government’s intelligence agents the info that they want.

Think about it. Frick and Frack take you into custody, and Frick takes you to a room and makes you stand naked for hours in the cold, puts a few harmless but creepy spiders in the cell with you, and lets you stew in your own juices a while.

Then Frack comes by and takes you to a room where you’re dressed in warm, comfy sweats, seated on a plush couch and offered a delicious meal, wine and your favorite dessert.

With whom would you prefer to converse?

It seems to me that the negative methods of beatings, pretending to drown someone, etc., would just make a person hate the interrogator and clam up, even if they weren’t already predisposed to do so.

I would think that positive incentives to talk — set a steaming hot, delicious meal in front of a guy who hasn’t eaten for a little while, and tell him the food is all his when he answers a question or two — would be more likely to work.

I think that’d work on me. But perhaps I think so differently than these alleged terrorist types that I can’t imagine what might or might not work. I don’t know.

What I do know is that to argue that waterboarding is not torture is completely ridiculous. Our own country has said it’s torture, at least before the Bush administration. Carrying out torturous acts — oops — I mean, harsh interrogations on suspected terrorists makes us far too like them to sit right with me.

We have to take the higher road. We are America, after all. How can we keep our self-righteous indignation intact if we act just like the supposed third-world barbarians who hate us?

In actuality, we’re overlooking the best methods of torture. Waterboarding? HA. Let me suggest a few really harsh interrogation methods.

We’ve all sat through staff meetings that are akin to torture. Listening to your district manager, visiting from Timbuktu, talking about cost/benefit analysis or something just as fascinating can make anyone request that their fingernails be ripped out one by one instead.

Think a terrorist could withstand that kind of torture? Hardly.

I’ve heard some country songs, too, that would inflict pain on anyone — and I’m a big country music fan. But surely any would-be attacker would break under the pressure of hearing “I’d Be Better Off in a Pine Box” within minutes.

Ever get behind some 120-year-old gray-hair or a dingbat talking on a cell phone going 30 mph in a 55-mph zone? Waterboarding might seem like a pleasant summer rain shower compared to that experience.

I know there aren’t any media commentators who have the guts to undergo those kinds of stressors, but I’m still hoping one will step up to the plate and be waterboarded live on TV to show folks what it’s really like. MSNBC’s Keith Olbermann offered money for charity to goad FOX’s Sean Hannity into letting himself be waterboarded, but I don’t think that stunt has gotten any traction.

Shockingly enough, I guess all these know-it-all talkers are just that — all talk. Since they make their living that way, I suppose that’s to be expected.

I just hope I never have information that someone wants to harshly interrogate out of me. They’d never get to waterboarding anyway.

All they’d have to do is put an ice cream sundae with hot fudge in front of me and threaten: “Tell us what we want to know, Weaver, or the ice cream’s toast.”

Yuck. I don’t even like toast. I’d spill the beans as soon as they gave me a spoon.

Well. Maybe terrorists don’t like ice cream as much as I do. But I can’t imagine why not.

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Julio wrote on May 7, 2009 7:26 AM:

" I would pay to see Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hanity, Bill O'Riely, water boarded. And a host of other that I will not mention. "

Kamfong wrote on May 7, 2009 10:22 AM:

" julio, isn't that kind of perverse? "

Tom Andres wrote on May 7, 2009 2:27 PM:

" Penny, the fact is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed gave up life-saving, accurate intelligence after finally being subjected to waterboarding. Nothing else had worked, waterboarding did. And, yes, in time of war, the end does justify the means. There is no ten-run rule that ends the misery for the losers. This is an all-or-nothing war.

Waterboarding is not fatal. It does not disfigure. In the real world of defending our nation from further terrorist attack (which, by the way, is a feat never ever accomplished while sitting at a keyboard dreaming of ice cream), what some would deem torture is in actuality only harsh interrogation.

Ironically, one of my all-time favorite opininators, Ann Coulter, wrote her own piece on this torture business just last night. You might find it an interesting and informative read at: http://tinyurl.com/c58fad. "

shumphreys wrote on May 8, 2009 6:43 AM:

" Mr. Andres there are many in high places who say that the information received came before the water boarding, and how many times did the guy go through the procedure? If the technique worked there would have been undeniable and volumes of verifiable and useful information. "

shumphreys wrote on May 8, 2009 6:46 AM:

" Oh and Mr. Andres once torture becomes fatal, it is murder, no longer torture. So your argument that water boarding is not fatal and therefor not torture doesn't hold water. An action is torture if it is inflicted on the living, causes pain and suffering and they continue to live. "

Harry Potter wrote on May 8, 2009 6:49 AM:

" Hey Tom, did you like her book that made the claim the McCarthy was really a hero too? I heard she's going to write one that will restore the reputation of Spiro Agnew next time around. Who knows, maybe clean up old Dick Cheney's reputation someday. She'll do her best to turn that despised reprobate into some sort of true patriot, instead of the warmongering profiteer that he really is.

I'm not surprised that Ann Coulter is one of your favorites, and I'll bet you have every one of her books too. I know that she hawks her trashy hate filled books on a lot of right wing kook web sites, so I know that you're well aware of them. She speaks your language, doesn't she?

Did you ever wonder why the only news shows she ever gets on are on the Fox channel? She's been caught telling so many lies and distortions that they're the only one left willing to put up with her dishonest nonsense and she fits right in with that bunch of right wing propagandists.

Yeah Tom, that's really some writer for you to promote on here.

By the way, your hero Reagan agreed that we would not torture and he even put it into writing, so was he wrong? "

Becky wrote on May 8, 2009 9:25 AM:

" Tom, the confession of Khalid planning 9-11 was after he was tortured. How can you be sure he really planned anything? Like I keep saying, anyone being tortured is going to say anything that the torturer wants them to say just to get the torture stopped. Most of us would admit to shooting JFK, MLK Jr, plotting the overthrow of Siam, or whatever they wanted to hear.

It's been done throughout history. Even on our own soldiers held prisoner in foreign lands. It invalidates anything that is "confessed". This is why torture is obsolete. It accomplishes NOTHING but really bad reperccussions. "

buh wrote on May 8, 2009 10:20 AM:

" My parents and school spanked me so I am a survivor of torture. Feeding terrorists spicy food and giving them a tummy ache causes pain and is torture also. In scuba class they turned our air off so we could see what it was like to run out of air. Come to think of it I have been tortured too many times to count in my life. "

medic57 wrote on May 8, 2009 10:34 AM:

" The difference between a suspectef terrorist going through waterboarding and a reporter going through through it is this.

The reporter KNOWS he will not be harmed, ther terrorist doesn't. "

Tom Andres wrote on May 8, 2009 11:35 AM:

" Hey, Harry, actually I don't have any of the Coulter books - maybe you could loan me a copy of yours. Yes, I do agree with Ann Coulter about 99% of the time, but the best part of Coulter is her sharp wit - which, honestly, is also the reason I sometimes enjoy your posts on here. The difference between her and you though is that shes right and witty and youre wrong, BUT witty. In case you haven't figured it out, as a conservative, I do enjoy nearly all (notice I didn't say ALL) forms of right-wing-presentation.

An interesting thing about the Fox News Channel phenomenon is how many of you on the far-left seem so intimately familiar with Fox coverage of the news. I thought MSNBC was your brand. Kind of strange that the left would spend so much of their time viewing a cable news channel to which they have such extreme objection.

Nice try with the Spiro Agnew barb, Harry. You have to go back that far in time to find a Republican crook? LOL, even I could do better than that.

Have a great day, HP. If you get a chance, you might want to turn off Fox News for five minutes and actually read Coulter's piece on torture. Pay particular attention to her dissection of Japanese torture during WWII. "

The Question wrote on May 8, 2009 12:23 PM:

" Here is the "wit" of Ann Coulter, the person Tommy agrees with 99 percent of the time:

My only regret with Timothy McVeigh is he did not go to the New York Times building. -New York Observer article; August 26, 2002
To a disabled Vietnam vet: People like you caused us to lose that war.MSNBC, Oct. 11, 1997
I think there should be a literacy test and a poll tax for people to vote.Hannity & Colmes, Aug. 17, 1999
Not all Muslims may be terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims. -Her syndicated column, September 28, 2001
I think [women] should be armed but should not votewomen have no capacity to understand how money is earned. They have a lot of ideas on how to spend itits always more money on education, more money on child care, more money on day care. -Comedy Central; Politically Incorrect; February 26, 2001.
God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. Its yours. Hannity & Colmes, June 20, 2001. "

shumphreys wrote on May 8, 2009 12:27 PM:

" Actually torture does accomplish alot: it destroys our reputation and standing in the world, it drives people who were borderline into the arms of the terrorists, it feeds the propaganda machines of those who are looking for great material,and it shows all the world just how "sick" "hypocritical" "immoral" our society really is. As Becky said it has bad repurcussions and it gets just the opposite of what we hope to get from the practice. "

Harry Potter wrote on May 8, 2009 12:56 PM:

" Unlike you Tom, I watch them all. And believe it or not, I actually read Coulter's on line columns, if nothing else for a good laugh.

And hey, I choose Spiro because he was probably the worst of all the Republican crooks. I could have come with a little more recent example, such as Tom Delay or Duke Cunningham, but Spiro seems to best epitomise crooked politics from either party. After all what modern top government official actually had his bribes delivered to the White House?

And hey once again, how come you're not buying any of Ann's books. Too cheap huh? I haven't really read any of them either, only reviews and bits of pieces on the most outragious claims that she has a tendency to make. I doubt that any respectable library would carry them, so I guess your out of luck. Due to her penchant for twisting facts, not many papers carry her column any longer, so I guess you're stuck with reading her on line diatribes. Ann would be a fact checkers nightmare. And thanks, I am having a great day. I'm arguing with the rednecks on another thread over illegal tail pipes on motorcycles. Check it out, I even quoted you, because for once you were right about something. Don't get big headed, even a stopped clock is right twice a day. lol! "

red,white,blue wrote on May 8, 2009 2:20 PM:

" http://tinyurl.com/44lvtn

Penny, I would suggest you read this article by Dave Gaubatz, the first U.S. civilian (1811) Federal Agent deployed to Iraq in 2003. While I do not subscribe to the "well they did it" argument, I do find it hard to understand how one can equate what our enemies consider torture and what is being called torture by the U.S. I'm not sure how anyone can refuse to understand what we are up against. These people want us dead, every last one of us.

And Penny, I would doubt that you would say no if, heaven forbid, someone wanted to harm those nieces and nephew you so rightly and obviously love and you knew you could save them by saying "yes, do what you have to do to get the information that will save my loved ones." I certainly know what my answer would be. "

Harry Potter wrote on May 8, 2009 7:42 PM:

" What's the GOP going to do now? First they lost Joe the Plunger and today we find that Palin's poll numbers are sinking faster than the Titanic as the result of her not handling the affairs of state very well. The good folks of Alaska are seeing how inept she really is without all the oil cash flowing in. Sarah is definitely floundering around trying to figure out what to do to keep in the national spotlight and yet still run the state. Perhaps old Rush "Boss" Limbaugh will have to step up to the plate and take over after all. Really, Limbaugh should do this because after all he is the true face of the GOP now. "

shumphreys wrote on May 9, 2009 7:20 AM:

" Red White and Blue your argument asking someone what would they do if it was their family member threatened doesn't hold water. Governments and the officials working for them (political, military, career employees)are there to do what is best for the whole, not avenge personal injustices or let personal fears conflict with their duties. AND torturing is not what is BEST for this or any country. "

Harry Potter wrote on May 9, 2009 6:47 PM:

" Hey all you Fox fans, how's that promise from Sean Hannity going, you know the one where he promised to undergo waterboarding for charity. I read where Kieth Olbermann even offered him 30 thousand to do it publicly. I hear he's had several other offers, but so far is still avoiding the issue. I suspect the little whiner is trying to weasel out of the deal. Or perhaps he woke up an realized it really is torture, and being the little coward he is, chickened out. Personally, I wouldn't want to do it, but I didn't go around boasting that I would do it either. Perhaps some of the torture advocates on this site can stand in for Sean. "

Harry Potter wrote on May 9, 2009 7:04 PM:

" A little research shows that:

Journalist Christopher Hitchens subjected himself to waterboarding in May of 2008, and more recently Mike Guy from Playboy did the same. Each journalist began the process and dropped the "safety stick" within fifteen and six seconds, respectively. Both were visibly shaken, and had no illusions about whether the technique constitutes torture.

Perhaps chicken little read about this and wisely backed out of his pledge. Anyone else remember Billo the Clown's promise to apologize if no WMD were found?

Simply another case of one of the Fox commentators biting off more than they can chew. Fair and balanced, you decide. lol! "

red,white,blue wrote on May 10, 2009 1:08 AM:

" Let's just say Susan, I'm glad I'm not one of your loved ones. In more ways than one although everybody does have at least one insufferable relative who is so obviously more brilliant and 'tolerant' than the rest of us. I'm sorry but you're are such a know-it-all I can't keep that opinion to myself. So I guess letting thousands maybe even millions get killed when it could be stopped is, in your opinion, what is best for the whole? "

Harry Potter wrote on May 10, 2009 4:04 PM:

" If waterboarding had been done under a Democratic party administration, RWB would be screaming the loudest. As usual, she looks at this issue through her partisan glasses. Torture is torture and is not a partisan issue, it would be just as wrong if it happened under Obama. Wrong is wrong. "

Harry Potter wrote on May 10, 2009 4:46 PM:

" For the best take on Limbaugh and Hannity, check out Wanda Sykes on Rush and Hannity on YouTube. Wanda skewers both of those pompous windbags pretty good. Absolutely hilarious. "

lefty wrote on May 11, 2009 1:29 AM:

" TOM ANDRES, "water boarding is not fatal."

Dead wrong. It can cause heart attacks, and if done improperly, can drown.

So drop the whole "It's perfectly safe!" meme. You are pro-torture, no matter what. You view national security as primary, so you are fine with any Machiavellian approach to meet those ends.

At least be honest. "

shumphreys wrote on May 11, 2009 7:06 AM:

" Red white and blue when you become that which you abhor you have lost the war. Bush and Cheny lost the minute they inflicted "collateral damage" on other innocents. You don't fight oppression with even greater oppression. If you want this world to be a safer, better place for your OWN kind you have to help make it better for the others, those who are not just like you. If you want other countries to honor the Geneva convention in regards to our military and non-combatants than you have to do the same and more. That is one of those lessons you can learn from Jesus and the Bible when you learn to read. "

shumphreys wrote on May 11, 2009 7:08 AM:

" Your self-rightous anger at me is because you know I am on the side of TRUTH and right. And you well, you know you aren't. "

The Question wrote on May 11, 2009 8:22 AM:

" Waterboarding is not fatal, Tommy? Neither is gouging people's eyes out. And raping someone's child in front of their eyes doesn't even "disfigure" the parents, does it, Tommy?
You are defending TORTURE by the USA. Look how low into the moral sewer you have sunk. Pull yourself up, clean the stink off yourself and join us here in the civilized world, Tommy. "

revclif wrote on May 11, 2009 10:21 AM:

" I would remind everyone that the right and left wings are parts of the same bird. It is a false paradigm designed to divide us and keep us bickering amongst ourselves through a false polarization.

There is only one race on this planet and that is the human race. Ever seen a picture of this planet from space? Did you see any lines of territory? They only exist on maps because fearful people created them.

Mr. Andres, I would be most interested to read your theory of how the alleged "terrorists" destroyed WTC building 7 in a perfectly executed controlled demolition which the BBC reported some 20 minutes before it occurred. Watch the footage on youtube sometime. 9/11 was an inside job and this knowledge will become public in the fullness of time.

Mr. Andres, do you also support the goings on at Abu Ghraib? "

father bob wrote on May 11, 2009 10:31 AM:

" The Question wrote on May 11, 2009 8:22 AM:
"You are defending TORTURE by the USA. Look how low into the moral sewer you have sunk. Pull yourself up, clean the stink off yourself and join us here in the civilized world, Tommy. """""

what?....come on TQ, you know a tommie and his brethren aren't concerned about a little old waterboarding....kinda goes hand in hand with cross-burning and a few other activities. "

red,white,blue wrote on May 11, 2009 11:14 AM:

" Susan writes: " Your self-rightous anger at me is because you know I am on the side of TRUTH and right. And you well, you know you aren't. "

Oh my gosh, what would we do without the Susans of the world to tell us what we really think and feel?

Thank you for my best laugh of the day so far! "

The Question wrote on May 11, 2009 12:09 PM:

" A U.S. soldier at "stress clinic" in Baghdad has gunned down and murdered five Americans.
Have you right wingers had your fill of blood yet from your Bush's little war of lies, or do you want to swallow some more? "

Mike P wrote on May 11, 2009 12:38 PM:

" Another pandering to fuel further discourse after the fact submission.

Good editorial, gets out infront of issues, and sparks thought provoking of the masses. Local issues die to the archives in a hurry, but 8 different threads on national hot button issues, get left in most comments to collect the brunt of discussion, and divert attention from stepping on any local toes.

Its past time the local paper, took its monopoly on local news coverage a little more seriously. Local issues deserve to get more prominence. Many of them the left and right find areas they agree on, and that is what we need more of, not less.

This paper was mum about a 900k deficit, in a local towns general fund until after the election. Not a peep or relavent what the heck happened, from them since they ran the unwelcome surprize we are 900k short. Its no wonder it has been reported by a disinterested bystander stenographer, and left un questioned, when the paper is continually pandering to any hot button topic that will defray frustrations elsewhere. Disinterested bystander stenographers have editors and a publisher to answer to, so as long as this has gone on, they must be on the same page. Baffling...

Can't wait until that pay for your online news lands on this monopolies plate. Perhaps then they will begin to make local issues and news the priority it should be, and stop pandering to specificly deflect certain interests, from being discussed out in the open by citizens tired of the status quoe still being maintained and catered to.

How many folks would pay to read this papers constantly jaded and pandering coverage online? "

father bob wrote on May 11, 2009 12:48 PM:

" tommie andres, rush limbaugh, sean hanity.....all cut out of the same cowardly mold. "

Harry Potter wrote on May 11, 2009 3:25 PM:

" Oh my gosh, what would we do without the Susans of the world to tell us what we really think and feel?

Don't worry Reddy, if Susan goes away, you still have Fox and Limbaugh for that. "

gringa wrote on May 11, 2009 4:37 PM:

" The Question wrote on May 11, 2009 12:09 PM: " A U.S. soldier at "stress clinic" in Baghdad has gunned down and murdered five Americans. Have you right wingers had your fill of blood yet from your Bush's little war of lies, or do you want to swallow some more?"

Hmmm, and here I thought Obama was the Commander in Chief. Why didn't he see this coming? Obama. War monger. Impeach him. War crimes trial!! "

Harry Potter wrote on May 11, 2009 7:02 PM:

" The number of days passed since Sean Hannity promised to be waterboarded to show his support for the troops: 17

17 days and the gasbag Hannity is still hiding from his promise. Wonder why? Any of you right wingers know why? How about it ed miller, even steven or Reddy?

Or the biggest defender of Fox news, Tom Andres?

Is Hannity a liar or a coward or both? After all waterboarding isn't torture, right? "

Tom Andres wrote on May 11, 2009 7:07 PM:

" HP, don't bother me. I'm trying to watch O'Reilly. Give me a call after Hannity, after 9:00 PM, and I'll try to address your problem. OK? Thanks. LOL "

Harry Potter wrote on May 11, 2009 7:22 PM:

" Come on Tom, you know you're switching over to Olbermann during the breaks. So what's Billo the Clown lying about tonight? Some of those promises he made on air then backed out of? "

Harry Potter wrote on May 11, 2009 7:30 PM:

" I see where a government report is about to be released that shows Cheney was lying about the effectiveness of waterboarding. What? Cheney lying? Now there's a first. lol! "

shumphreys wrote on May 11, 2009 7:31 PM:

" Why Red White and Blue if it wasn't for me you wouldn't know your ___ from a hole in the ground. Just be thankful I am willing to share my great wisdom and warmth with the likes of you. "

The Question wrote on May 11, 2009 8:53 PM:

" Harry, to paraphrase Mary McCarthy, everything Cheney says is a lie, including "and" and "the." "

ed miller wrote on May 11, 2009 8:54 PM:

" As someone said elsewhere, if you want a true definition of torture, make someone choose between burning alive or plunging 80 stories to their death. If such a choice can be avoided by waterboarding a terrorist, then the only moral thing to do is to waterboard him, and it is the people who argue otherwise who are morally-stunted children. "

ed miller wrote on May 11, 2009 9:22 PM:

" Keep in mind that Pelosi is a couple of heartbeats from the Presidency...

Version 1: I knew nothing at all about waterboarding. So you can understand why I didn't object.

Version 2: Okay, maybe I was told something about waterboarding, but only as a hypothetical future technique. I was never told we'd already waterboarded Zubaydah. So you can understand why I didn't object.

Version 3: Okay, maybe I did know all about Zubaydah being waterboarded, but Jane Harman wrote a letter of protest which I could have co-signed but I didn't, because I needed to "respect appropriate channels." So you can understand why I didn't object.

Coming soon:

Version 4: Okay, maybe I personally took part in waterboarding Zubaydah, but I swear I only held his forehead back and didn't pour any of the water. So you can understand why I didn't object.

Hey maybe if everyone focuses on how she is an incompetent liar, they won't notice her bankrupting the country. "

The Question wrote on May 12, 2009 5:55 AM:

" Torture -- eagerly sought, planned and executed by the GOP fascists in the Bush administration -- violates the U.S. Constitution, Amendment 8; the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, Article 5; the Third Geneva Convention; the UN Torture Convention; and more.
The use of torture has turned the United States into a shining city in a sewer. "

ed miller wrote on May 12, 2009 10:04 AM:

" The Question wrote on May 12, 2009 5:55 AM:
" The use of torture has turned the United States into a shining city in a sewer. "

Funny how it never seems to bother the liberals when it is being done to our own troops. "

Harry Potter wrote on May 12, 2009 10:30 AM:

" In todays over-the-top, exaggeration-focused world of TV talking heads, Im surprised that no commentator yet has done the obvious: volunteered to undergo waterboarding.

Hey Penny, did you not hear about Sean Hannity's boastful claim on Faux news that he would do it? Of course it was hot air and this is day 18 since he made that phony promise. "

Harry Potter wrote on May 12, 2009 10:43 AM:

" So I guess letting thousands maybe even millions get killed when it could be stopped is, in your opinion, what is best for the whole? "

Sounds like someone bought into Cheney's lies. Watch for the truth, it's coming out today. Here's a hint: Cheney lied. "

CHILL! wrote on May 12, 2009 10:43 AM:

" shumphreys wrote on May 11, 2009 7:08 AM:
" Your self-rightous anger at me is because you know I am on the side of TRUTH and right. And you well, you know you aren't. "

LOLOLOLOLOL Well ain't that the pot calling the kettle black!
Too funny Suzie, we all know about YOUR TRUTHS! "

father bob wrote on May 12, 2009 12:08 PM:

" ed miller wrote on May 12, 2009 10:04 AM:
" The Question wrote on May 12, 2009 5:55 AM:
" The use of torture has turned the United States into a shining city in a sewer. "

Funny how it never seems to bother the liberals when it is being done to our own troops. """"

eddie, i'll rob a bank and give all the money to a charity.....am i right for robbing the bank?

it's a question of MORALITY....but then again you've proven the rightwing radicals have a problem with what is morally correct. "

Harry Potter wrote on May 12, 2009 7:47 PM:

" It is now day 20 since Fox news gasbag Sean Hannity promised to get waterboarded to raise money for the troops. Any Hannity defenders out there? I doubt it. lol! "

Harry Potter wrote on May 12, 2009 7:52 PM:

" Just exactly did ed miller make the switch from being a Republican to being a Libertarian? I do know that he only adopted a position of fiscal conservatism after Obama got in. "

Harry Potter wrote on May 12, 2009 7:56 PM:

" Jessie Ventura, former Navy Seal, professional wrestler and ex governor of Minnesota, said Dick Cheney would confess to murder too if waterboarded. "

Harry Potter wrote on May 13, 2009 5:35 AM:

" And now we learn that former Vice President Dick Cheney wants certain of those torture reports and assessments made public after all. Why? To write a book and to show that the use of water-boarding and other enhanced interrogation techniques - even if unlawful - extracted worthwhile intelligence from suspects. For the prior administration at least, what constitutes an intelligence source or method depends more on the point attempted to be made than it does on a legitimate need to protect the names and lawful actions of undercover operatives.
Bob Barr- Libertarian candidate for president in 2008

Oh ed, say it isn't so..... "

Harry Potter wrote on May 13, 2009 6:09 AM:

" Former VP Dick Cheney has enlisted his own wife and daughter in his effort to defend his advocating torture of our enemies. They, along with him, have hit the talk show circuit. How low can this reprobate sink? Cheney could care less how this is effecting his political party. He has effectively put the Republicans in a position of having to defend torture. This is a great deal for those of the Democratic party, who have come out in opposition of torture. Keep it up Dick, you're insuring the Republican party will only sink lower in the approval department. In addition, Cheney's slobbering all over Rush Limbaugh will not win many converts either. This may play with the rabid conservative base, but will no doubt hurt his party in the end. Who knows, perhaps Cheney's comments about Limbaugh were a preventive measure so he wouldn't have to apologise to Rush like all of the others in that party have been forced to do when they dared say anything even slightly critical about "Boss" Limbaugh.

Lastly, this is day 21 since Sean Hannity promised to be waterboarded to support the troops. How long will this scumbag continue to renege on his promise? And I note the Fox news fans on this site have remained unusually silent on this issue. Wonder why? Come on Hannity fans, what's the deal? "

ed miller wrote on May 13, 2009 8:20 AM:

" father bob wrote on May 12, 2009 12:08 PM:
" it's a question of MORALITY....but then again you've proven the rightwing radicals have a problem with what is morally correct. "

No it's hypocrisy. You are fine with vacuuming out the brains of an innocent, unborn child but suddenly you are all about morals when it comes to mistreating Islamic killers. Don't try to take the high ground here. This whole thing is just a ruse to try to distract the public from the massive debt spending and focusing attention on the Bush administration. "

The Question wrote on May 13, 2009 12:51 PM:

" The military and the CIA should advertise for their new job classification: American torture specialist. "

The Question wrote on May 13, 2009 1:23 PM:

" The American use of torture was so bad that even the Obama administration is afraid to release the photos of it. That pretty much tells us all we need to know about the Bush war criminals. "

father bob wrote on May 13, 2009 3:46 PM:

" ed miller wrote on May 13, 2009 8:20 AM:
" father bob wrote on May 12, 2009 12:08 PM:No it's hypocrisy. You are fine with vacuuming out the brains of an innocent, unborn child but suddenly you are all about morals when it comes to mistreating Islamic killers.""""

ROFLMAO!!!.....eddie eddie eddie! you confuse social issues with politics and national security.

there's a huge difference between a woman's choice, and the choice of a sovereign nation's presence and world view.

can i get you a little cheese..... "

father bob wrote on May 13, 2009 3:47 PM:

" eddie....i thought you were one of those "christians". what happened? "

Cognitus wrote on May 15, 2009 10:23 AM:

" Andres:" Penny, the fact is Khalid Sheikh Mohammed gave up life-saving, accurate intelligence after finally being subjected to waterboarding.

According to WHOM??? besides Dick
Cheney, and we know he is a liar and
is covering his A@@

You know the FBI says that waterboarding provided no more information than they already had in an article this week, tho Mohammed was
not explicityly mentioned. "

Cognitus wrote on May 15, 2009 10:25 AM:

" Andres: "Waterboarding is not fatal. It does not disfigure.

Sounds like a good thing for a Sunday pm picnic. If you're willing to demonstrate how neat it is, I'll be glad to round up a couple of guys who will help me to demonstrate with you as the subject. Just name the date. "

Harry Potter wrote on May 17, 2009 7:58 AM:

" Sounds like a good thing for a Sunday pm picnic. If you're willing to demonstrate how neat it is, I'll be glad to round up a couple of guys who will help me to demonstrate with you as the subject. Just name the date. "

Perhaps you should make that offer to Sean Hannity. I'm sure he would agree...no wait...he did and then chickened out. lol! "

The Question wrote on May 18, 2009 8:42 AM:

" The Bush administration, in brief: "We didn't torture. Also, we briefed some Democrats and swore them to secrecy about all the torturing we were doing. At least we claim we did. In addition, torture works wonderfully. However, even though it worked wonderfully, we didn't do it again after 2004. Except when we did. And torture shouldn't be called "torture." It should be called 'harsh interrogation' or, better yet, 'enhanced interrogation.' That makes the deliberate infliction of agony on helpless people sound like something nice." "

jrussell wrote on May 23, 2009 6:56 PM:

" let them get waterboarded a hundred times... "