" great letter! "

" Bush initiated Medicare Disadvantage, or privately run health insurance plans for seniors (financed with our tax dollars, AKA "corporate welfare"). These plans are costing 18% more while delivering less care and less reliable coverage (because their primary duty is to make profits, not help people). The horror stories from seniors who fell for these shams are starting to pour in, and they're sounding just like the horror stories of Americans under age 65 who don't work for an employer who is "in with an in crowd" and so are trapped in the same "money before morality" health unsurance non-system.

Medicare has a 40-year history of running on 2-3% administrative overhead while private health unsurers divert 31% of our health care dollars away from providing health care. They price gouge healthy people and deny often desperately needed medical care to sick ones. They are the opposite of a workable model for consumers.

Want to know what went wrong with Walter Reed that was tremendously under-reported? Bush handed over the management of it to a Halliburton subsidiary. I lerned that by watching congressional testimony on CSPAN (not from any main stream media). "

" Bush handed over the management of it to a Halliburton subsidiary.


Why am I not surprised? "

" A Canadian doctor was talking yesterday (Monday) on TV about how so many people die in Canada while waiting for life saving procedures to be approved and scheduled. "

" Oh yeah Sapient, that NEVER happens in the US. "

" The (large group) health insurance industry is simply a pooling of risks of employees who desire coverage for potential unforeseen medical expenses. Some pre-existing conditions are denied coverage for obvious reasons - similar to rejecting an application for homeowners insurance while a fire is burning the house down.

The insurance industry is a very competitive business. Because of aggressive competition, there is no opportunity for price fixing or price gouging - at least not on the part of insurance companies.

Major employee group plans are in fact "self-insured" by the employer, i.e., where the employer (such as an IBM) pays an insurance company 2%-3% of the claim amount they process. The insurance companies do not assume the risk of claims. The insurance company is a Third Party Administrator (TPA). Contrary to public perception, the insurance company would actually benefit by paying out higher claims!

My point is that insurance companies are not the culprit when it comes to high insurance premiums and/or the denial of claims or coverage. That's the role of the employer's own definition of benefits.

If you're looking for someone to blame for the high cost of medical care, examine the fee structures of medical care providers and the frequency of unneeded diagnostic testing and procedures. Simply put, even mediocre doctors and hospitals and labs charge outrageous fees and our litigious society and unscrupulous attorneys force them to order unnecessary tests and procedures to cover their butts in case they're sued along the way. These two groups, price-gouging medical providers and ambulance-chasing lawyers, are the culprits in the high cost of medical care. "

" Sapient:"" A Canadian doctor was talking yesterday (Monday) on TV about how so many people die in Canada while waiting for life saving procedures to be approved and scheduled. "

And here in the US some don't "wait for life-saving procedures"; the insurance company has told them bluntly: "We're not going to approve it, so .... have a good day." "

" Right now the states and federal government oversees/funds the medical care for a relatively small percentage of the population. The feds deal with seniors and some disabled through Medicare and the states through Medicaid.

How long do you think it would take for them to come up with 10,000 rules and 20,000 hoops for patients and doctors to jump through if they funded it all in a universal health care system?

Don't get me wrong. I think 100% of the legal population of this country should have access to all the health care they need. I simply do not trust any of our governments to do it right, and lets face it. When was the last time the state of the feds really did something the right way, especially something as big and as important as this? "

" As Ronald Regan once said (and I was never a big fan of his)

The most frightening words in the world are:

I'm from the Government and I'm here to help. "

" Isn't it strange how people WITH health care think that health care for the poor is a bad idea. "

" Actually, Meds, the old GE shill Reagan was wrong. The most frightening words in the world are:
I'm a multinational corporation, and I've poisoned your planet, bribed politicians to start wars for my profits, made health care unaffordable through greed, wiped out your life savings with fraudulent financial instruments and shipped all jobs that pay anything more than a subsistence wage overseas. Now give me another trillion-dollar taxpayer bailout and kiss my polished boot. "

" Yes TQ. Good thing we have the congress and President that is willing to hand over billions of taxpayer dollars to inefficient companies to pay their bonuses and invest overseas. Good call. "

" Or, medic57, the flip side of that is:
Isn't it strange how some people who choose $10,000 a year budgets for new car payments and alcohol and cigarette and lottery ticket purchases INSTEAD OF health insurance want to destroy the greatest health care system in the world? In most of these hard luck sob stories, it's all a matter of priorities.

I'm in favor of providing HMO health care for the truly poor and the truly uninsurable, but the rest of this nonsense - no way.

Next thing you know, the feds will own the banks and the car companies and the insurance companies and th ... hey ... wait a minute! "

" Yes TQ. Good thing we have the congress and President that is willing to hand over billions of taxpayer dollars to inefficient companies to pay their bonuses and invest overseas. Good call.
---
Just what Bush and Paulson did, too, Edward, isn't it? So what are you complaining about? "

" The last two have done it heavily. "

" Tom Andres

I wouldn't know about that, I drive a 9 year old car with 159,000 miles on it. "

" Tom Andres wrote on Apr 30, 2009 2:07 PM:

" Or, medic57, the flip side of that is:
Isn't it strange how some people who choose $10,000 a year budgets for new car payments and alcohol and cigarette and lottery ticket purchases INSTEAD OF health insurance want to destroy the greatest health care system in the world? In most of these hard luck sob stories, it's all a matter of priorities.


If you were to change that most to some, I would agree with you Tom. But you can't build a case using anecdotal examples. That's a Limbaugh trick, by the way. Since you claim that you don't listen to him, I though I would point that out.

Some folks, especially these days, can't find anything better than WalMart (no disrespect meant) and they can't get enough hours in to qualify for health insurance. Many of these folks are truly the working poor and sometimes work more than one job just to pay the rent and put food on the table. I'll concede the point that there are some out there who scam the system, are just plain lazy and good for nothing, but I think they are in a minority. Your example is a typical right wing red herring.

Any thoughts on the construction workers who work 8 or 9 months out of the year and a very high wage and draw maximum unemployment for the remainder of the year and still get food commodities?

Of course the union reps pull up to the back door of the food pantry to load their trucks and deliver it to their members so they won't have to be humiliated by standing in line with the truly needy. Talk about a scam!

And by the way, they get good insurance though the unions, and yes they pay for it out of their wages. But that's not too bad when your making the kind of money they make. I don't begrudge them their wages, but taking food hand outs seems a bit much, at least to me. "

" Is that your answer to everything, TQ?

"but look at what Bush did" "

" Come on, medic57, you can try to change words, delete words, add words all you want - but my post still stands.

Perhaps the key words I used were: "some people who choose". I wasn't tying to bash anyone who drives a 9 year old vehicle with 159,000 miles on it. (Although you might consider trading up to something a little greener. LOL)

By the way, are you saying that you don't have health care available to you or your family? If so, I wonder if you have considered giving up the internet so you can work a parttime job and buy some insurance. Like I said ... some people who choose.... "

" Is that your answer to everything, TQ?
"but look at what Bush did"
---
Yes. Bush and you right-wingers wrecked the world economy with your deregulated corporate financial fraud, America's moral standing with your hideous use of torture, America's freedoms with your totalitarian police state spying and America's reputation and future security with your multi-trillion-dollar murderous invasion of Iraq. All of our current problems were either created by, enhanced by or not stopped by your simian savior, the worst president in American history.
But I can't say Bush never did anything right. He did destroy the Republican Party for us. "

" OK, Harry, I'll change the "most" to "some". Good suggestion. Don't forget though, I'm an insurance agent. I've seen MANY cases where Mom and Dad had two or three rug rats running around the house, almost-new cars in the drive way with $800 a month car payments, large screen TVs, claiming they couldn't AFFORD health insurance! Anecdotal? Perhaps. I dont keep statistics.

On the Limbaugh thing, the last time I listened to Rush was at least three weeks ago out in the garage, when I could hear him, between running the table saw and the router. Give me a break, Harry. You may think your mind is like a steel trap, but remember, it's been raining a lot lately.

Since you brought it up, with the no disrespect intended disclaimer, let's talk about Wal-Mart. My daughter is working at a Wal-Mart while her husband is serving in Iraq. Wally has been an excellent employer for her along the way. She is very well paid and very happy with her work. Wal-Mart couldnt be more supportive of her US Army Reserve drill and training commitments. LOL, thank you for shopping at Wal-Mart.

I do have some thoughts on your other comments regarding the food bank, etc. Call me and well take a coffee break. "

" I wasn't tying to bash anyone who drives a 9 year old vehicle with 159,000 miles on it. (Although you might consider trading up to something a little greener. LOL)

By the way, are you saying that you don't have health care available to you or your family? If so, I wonder if you have considered giving up the internet so you can work a parttime job and buy some insurance.

My 9 year old Malibu gets 31 miles per gallon on the highway.

As far as insurance goes, with Diabetes, High Blood Pressure, High Cholesteral and Epilepsy, I have yet to find an Insurance Company that will cover any of that, why buy insurance that won't cover you when you're sick?
Only have Telephone, Internet is included, no Cable TV (saves money)

By the way, Trading up to a greener car would cost thousands of dollars (that I don't have) That money could also be used to buy insurance, if I could find some that covers pre existing conditions. Most don't.
Sooooo, what good is it to buy insurance that won't cover what you have? "

" medic57, you know I was just kidding about trading your vehicle for a so-called "green" model. That's what the LOL means. By the way, I'm very happy with my 2001 Dodge Ram Magnum that gets maybe 15 mpg downhill on the highway. It'll be a collector's item as soon as Chrysler completely folds.

You're right, if you have all those medical conditions, you are not insurable unless you're eligible for group medical.

The VA is kind of like group medical. If you're a vet, go that way. Because of Agent Orange, the VA has LOTS of experience with Diabetes! "

" While I was in the grocery store, I stood in line behind a grossly obese woman who had her cart mounded up with all sorts of junk that I wouldn't even consider eating: snack cakes, chips, soda, packaged pre-cooked sausage links, fatty hamburger... total crap. Then she swipes her link card for all this unlealthy junk food. I pay cash for my thirty bucks worth of groceries, and when I leave the store, I see the same woman climb into a minivan and light a cigarette. So, here I am eating right, exercising, and paying my own way, but I'm also expected to pay more for this pig's diabetes, congestive heart failure, or even cancer? Yeah... that sounds fair. "

" So, here I am eating right, exercising, and paying my own way, but I'm also expected to pay more for this pig's diabetes, congestive heart failure, or even cancer?
---
You will in any case, Stevey. Government or private, insurance is a shared risk pool. Why do you think your health insurance premiums go up -- even beyond the level of the massive built-in price gouging by the health insurance industry, of course?
Let's say you shoot your foot off cleaning one of your many guns. Why should anyone else pay higher premiums because of your hospital costs for a stupid blunder?
If only "blameless" health problems are to be covered for those who lead perfect lives, we can start letting a lot of people bleed to death in the ditch right now. "

" Medit57:"" As Ronald Regan once said (and I was never a big fan of his)
The most frightening words in the world are:
I'm from the Government and I'm here to help. "

And you are foolish enough to believe it and repeat it.
That's a very cute saying and usually quoted by people who need no immediate help, but in the end......

For example, conservatives sing the praises of "free enterprise" and freedom from government interference and regulation, until they want $$$$.
I'M GOING TO GIVE YOU A REAL EXAMPLE!!!
Right now NASCAR is dealing with Denver, promising to build a NASCAR track if Denver and surrounding area will provide them with FIFTY MILLION DOLLARS in tax exemptions.
Now at the moment Colorado is in such
a desperate condition financially that they contribute less than 10% of the U of Colorado expenses, similarly with Colorado State University -- and as a result tuitions are going to escalate.
You would think the education of future citizens would rank among the highest priorities of the state; a highly trained citizenry attracts high tech industry.
But THE BUSINESS COMMUNITY is strongly supporting NASCAR, demanding that taxpayers support the $50 Million grant because THEY think it will bring lots of people into town so THEY can make extra $$$.

So let's not have any more BS about "I'm from the government and I want to help you": rather rephrase it as to what really happens: "I'm from a company which draws lots of people into town who will pay me a lot of money AND the local business community expects also to make a lot of money -- BUT WE STILL WANT THE 'I'm from the government man' TO GIVE US $50 MILLION of taxpayer money so we all can make Even More Money.
-- and if YOUR govenment man won't give us the money, we'll build our track somewhere that has a Government Man who WILL.

As another example, for which taxpayers contributed millions: consider the disaster of the Baseball Village that was to be built next to the new Cardinal stadium; "government men" who were taken in by the Cardinals must be really proud of the asphalt parking lots which occupy the glorified Baseball Village site.

Still want to quote Ronald Reagan's silly statement Medic???? "

" even steven, good post. You realize you're going to be slammed for it, right? But you are reflecting the sentiments of many taxpayers. (I'd say "most" but Harry would be upset with me.)

As a youngster, I worked after school at Wilb Walker's. There was a separate manual checkout lane for the folks on "relief". Back then, that program was administered by the townships (maybe by the county, I don't remember for sure). The thing is (as Glenn Beck says), the thing is, every item the family took home was hand-written on a receipt pad which Walkers would turn into the township (or the county) for reimbursement. Typically, the purchases were milk, bread, flower, sugar, salt, cheap cuts of meat, you know, the staples. There were no Twinkies, no candy bars, no soda, no chips, no salsa, just the basics.

The thing is that the folks who came into the store were humble (and yes, I assume humiliated) by being there for food and having no money to pay for it like everyone else did. As I remember it, the number of repeat relief customers was a very short list. Relief, back then, was a temporary hand up - not a hand-out life style.

If I were in charge of "relief' today, I would have a chip implanted in the Link Card that would reject the purchase of junk food UPCs. Technology would certainly accommodate that, and the taxpayer wouldn't be funding this kind of abuse of our welfare system.

By the way, if that welfare recipient votes, do you think she might just cast her vote for the politician who promises to continue her abuses of the welfare system? The hand-up industry is in the wrong hands. Whatever happened to the power of local, closely monitored, government?

Big (and unaccountable) government is robbing the poor of a natural inclination to feel humble and appreciative of what they are given. Big (and unaccountable) government is perpetuating an ever-expanding welfare class. Because of big (and unaccountable) government, we now have four basic permanent classes of citizens: welfare, poor, middle-class, and rich. "

" Jim 1969"
Don't get me wrong. .... I simply do not trust any of our governments to do it right, and lets face it."

Let's face some facts, Jimbo, instead of simply repeating the anti-government rhetoric.

The ONLY problem I ever had with a health insurance problem was with a PRIVATE company. I had informed then that Oldest Child had grown beyond their age limit and should be removed from the policy. Later, when the Next Child had surgery, they refused to pay, claiming that only Oldest Child was named on the policy.
When I raised a little HHHH, refused to accept their decision, threatened to call in a lawyer they finally admitted they had made a "little clerical error". Typical health insurance tricks, denying payment thinking I would not fight their decision. How many MILLIONS of $$$ do insurance companies make by denying
payment for which they are CLEARLY liable, hoping clients will be too weak to fight back.
==================
And you don't trust the government???? "

" Andres:"Isn't it strange how some people .... want to destroy the greatest health care system in the world?"

It isn't unusual for Andres to exaggerate a bit -- we all do now and then -- but this time his "greatest health care" goes way out of bounds.

I dug down in my files and quote all the following from a November article in the Post Dispatch:

Roughly 7 out of every 1000 US babies die in their first year. We are thus on a par with Serbia and Lithuania. In infant mortality rates we are tied with Thailand, at 29th, 1st being the best. We rank lower than Poland, Hungary, Croatia and S Korea.
Our rate is more than twice as bad as that of Japan, Sweden, Cyprus and Italy and 3 times as bad as Iceland.

The Center for Disease Control and most health experts regard infant mortality as the most important indicators of a nation's health for it is affected by many factors: maternal health, access to health care, socioeconomic conditions and public health practices.

In 1960, the US had the 12th lowest infant mortality rate; since then other nations have surpassed us by lowering their mortality rate.

Americans have a "HEALTHY (i.e. living in full health) life expectancy" of 69 years. That's about the same as Slovenia and Portugal, 2 fewer than the British, 3 fewer than the French and 6 lower than the Japanese.

America has fewer doctors, CT scanners, MRI machines per capita than residents of many other Western nations. Yet we spent about TWICE as much for health care than the British, French, or Japanese. At least $1,000 per capita per annum of our health care pays for paperwork and administration.

Every citizen in Britain, France, Japan and every other developed country has government-PAID health care.

OK Andres, let's see your statistics.
If you doubt mine, look up the article from which I quote. "

" Cognitus, yes, I'd like to read that source. Could you be a little more specific? Perhaps a date, or a title? Please don't tell me you saved another issue of Parade Magazine.

I'm not here to dispute your claims really (or the source you quote), but I know it's easy to lie using statistics, especially if one has an agenda to push. For example, you are careful to not answer the obvious question posed by your statistic that America is tied with Thailand, at 29th, in terms of infant mortality rates. The obvious question is WHY?

Could it be because we have so many crack mamas who spend their whole pregnancy without seeking prenatal care? Could it be because almost all of those crack mamas aren't married to the crack papas, and in fact, don't even know who the hell he is? What do your stats tell you? You see, I've just described a very complex social problem that spills over into the medical community, haven't I?

Cognitus, when I say "greatest health care system in the world", I'm not speaking in narrow statistical terms. So, is it all about numbers with you?

Here's the test of your stats. Let's say you were scheduled for bypass surgery. Would you rather have the surgery performed at your choice of any hospital in the USA or your choice of any hospital in Thailand? Hmmm, are the United States and Thailand still in a statistical dead heat? "

" Americans now work in low-wage, dead-end jobs in a country that no longer manufactures anything except fraudulent financial instruments and debt. They buy their hope for the future in the form of lottery tickets at the local convenience store. That stores counter displays cans with kids' pictures on them, along with messages begging for change to defer the medical expenses of families who have been bankrupted by their childs disease. Those cans are the product of what Americans like to call "the greatest health care system in the world." "

" There go the right wingers again, beating up on welfare recipients. Billions of dollars poured down that rat hole called Iraq, and not a peep out of them, but they sure are quick to jump on some poor person using a link card. What compassion they show for their fellow man.

Based on what you've said in the past, I suppose you snicked at those poor folks at Walker's, huh Tom? "

" It isn't unusual for Andres to exaggerate a bit -- we all do now and then -- but this time his "greatest health care" goes way out of bounds.



When all of your ideas are based on GOP talking points and you admit that you only watch Fox news, this should not surprise anyone.

Proof that he's full of it is that when you look at about every measurable health care category, we rank way down on the list. Folks like Tom usually ignore that point. "

" What I have to admire about Republican talk radio is its penetrating wit and sophistication. You can just sense the kind of intelligent, highly educated people it appeals to. "

" even steven,you described my crack dealer too a tee, Iv'e seen other crack heads give her they links card and thats how she able to power shop.Probably seen her on the 1st or 15th huh? "

" " Cognitus, yes, I'd like to read that source. Could you be a little more specific? Perhaps a date, or a title? Please don't tell me you saved another issue of Parade Magazine."

That's Andres; when he doesn't have any facts of his own, he uses personal
attacks.
Andres, I'm now at work in Colorado, and I do not have the date of the issue with me. Just go to the Library and search through the Post Dispatch. I SAID it's in November, so you'll have only 31 papers to look through. Sorry it will divert from your day with Fox news.
But I doubt that you SERIOUSLY are interested in FACTS. "

" Andres:"For example, you are careful to not answer the obvious question posed by your statistic that America is tied with Thailand, at 29th, in terms of infant mortality rates. The obvious question is WHY? "

Andres, I almost answered your question in myarticle had you read it:"The Center for Disease Control and most health experts regard infant mortality as the most important indicators of a nation's health for it is affected by many factors: maternal health, access to health care, socioeconomic conditions and public health practices.:"
The answer, which I quoted in my post, is the best answer I have.

Why don't YOU do a little research yourself, dig into YOUR files. I'm already 10 minutes late on my way to work so .... "

" The Question wrote on May 2, 2009 10:17 AM:

" What I have to admire about Republican talk radio is its penetrating wit and sophistication. You can just sense the kind of intelligent, highly educated people it appeals to. "

Yeah... stupid medical doctors, mechanical engineers, business owners, stock brokers, etc., listen to that crap. If they were enlightened and worked for the government and belonged to a union, they'd get all their news from a non-biased source like the NY Times, MSNBC, or the Communist News Network... hahahahaha.... you vitriolic, self-proclaimed intellectual leftists crack me up. You're all such weak, misinformed little sheeple. "

" The Question wrote on May 2, 2009 10:17 AM:
" What I have to admire about Republican talk radio is its penetrating wit and sophistication. You can just sense the kind of intelligent, highly educated people it appeals to. """"


did you happen to catch their leader making the statement the party didn't need to reform or find a new identity??

you really have to be excited about the next 30-40 years! "

" Andres:"Here's the test of your stats. Let's say you were scheduled for bypass surgery. Would you rather have the surgery performed at your choice of any hospital in the USA or your choice of any hospital in Thailand? Hmmm, are the United States and Thailand still in a statistical dead heat? "

I wish Andres would READ what is written before filling his pants.
The Thailand statistics were on INFANT MORTALITY; none were quoted on surgery.

However, I would point out that people who cannot afford open heart surgery here in the US -- because of the COST
are having it done, successfully (tho I don't know the statistics) for MUCH
LESS MONEY in Asia.

It is the belief that we are the "greatest" in many fields that is serving our lunch to China and India. Ever call for computer problems? I did 7 years ago, talked to experts in the US and Canada and got a warranty computer replacement.
Last month I had a warranty printer problem and spent more than 12 hours on the phone and learned to speak Indian before I got a new printer. "

" Thanks for the right-wing outrage, little Stevey. t flows in virtual rivers, like cheap, trailer-park beer. Its equally intoxicating, equally healthy, equally easy to convert into pure urine and makes just as many people turn themselves into incoherent public jacka$$es. "

" Cognitus, when I say "greatest health care system in the world", I'm not speaking in narrow statistical terms. So, is it all about numbers with you?




Narrow statistical terms? Good grief Tom, we're talking about almost every measurable medical statistic.

Nice try on the crack baby stat. "

" The Question wrote on May 5, 2009 7:21 PM:

" Thanks for the right-wing outrage, little Stevey. t flows in virtual rivers, like cheap, trailer-park beer. Its equally intoxicating, equally healthy, equally easy to convert into pure urine and makes just as many people turn themselves into incoherent public jacka$$es. "

No problem Queeny. Your literary enurisis, just a constant dribble of leftist drivel, is so predictable and typical of swishy, nuetered leftists who seem to love to pretend they are intellectuals. Your demented scribblings are merely the feeble rants of an embittered eunuch with a chip on his narrow little shoulders. You make me laugh, even though I think most clowns are creepy. "

" Your literary enurisis, just a constant dribble of leftist drivel, is so predictable and typical of swishy, nuetered leftists who seem to love to pretend they are intellectuals. Your demented scribblings are merely the feeble rants of an embittered eunuch with a chip on his narrow little shoulders.

Translation: I really can't dispute your points, so I'll try to sound intelligent myself by using a big word myself, even though I can't spell it correctly.


Imagine what our sided thinks of your Fox/Limbaugh inspired idiotic blather, even. "

" How's that big Republican comeback going for you? Should you wave around some more teabags? "

" Harry Potter wrote on May 6, 2009 3:41 PM:
" Your literary enurisis, just a constant dribble of leftist drivel, is so predictable and typical of swishy, nuetered leftists who seem to love to pretend they are intellectuals. Your demented scribblings are merely the feeble rants of an embittered eunuch with a chip on his narrow little shoulders.

Translation: I really can't dispute your points, so I'll try to sound intelligent myself by using a big word myself, even though I can't spell it correctly.


Imagine what our sided thinks of your Fox/Limbaugh inspired idiotic blather, even. "

Ohhh... the Fox/Limbaugh retort. How original and clever! It's nice to see you come to the defense of your boyfriend. How touching! "

" Ohhh... the Fox/Limbaugh retort. How original and clever! It's nice to see you come to the defense of your boyfriend. How touching!


You seem to make a lot of gay inferences, even. Trying to tell us something? "

" Are you hitting on my, Harry? You silly little flute tooter... I'm not into that sort of thing. "

" As our friend father bob has often noted, homophobia runs rampant at times of this site. And for the most part comes from the kooky side of the political spectrum. I wonder why that is? "