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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Lee Enterprises

Wednesday, April 15, 2009 9:38 PM CDT
More than 100 gather to protest high taxes

By ROB STROUD, Staff Writer
rstroud@jg-tc.com

CHARLESTON — Chilly weather could not cool the fire of those who turned out to protest high taxes during the “TEA Party” event Tuesday evening in Morton Park.

More than 100 people gathered under the southeast pavilion for this “Taxed Enough Already” event, organized as part of the American Family Association’s “National TEA Party Day” protest today regarding federal taxes.

“I was honestly pleased. I was going to be happy with 50, given the weather,” said co-organizer Holly Rennels.

Those gathered Tuesday were encouraged to bring homemade protest signs to their city halls at noon today, a call made across the country by the “National TEA Party Day.”

Rennels said they could also take part by honking their car horns three times at noon today as well as by calling the White House and their congressional representatives to demand fiscal responsibility. Contact phone numbers were given to those interested.

Participants on Tuesday shared homemade signs stating, “Bring back common sense” and “Party like it’s 1773,” an allusion to the Boston Tea Party tax protest. Larry Phillips of Charleston held a sign that read, “It’s patriotic to be tea’d off.”

“I just wanted to support the effort to protest our high taxation,” Phillips said. Phillips added he is particularly concerned that measures to cut carbon emissions could cause people’s electric bills to steeply increase.

The crowd also shared hot tea and roasted marshmallows in the pavilion’s stone fireplace. Peggy Reader of Sullivan held a cup of hot tea close as she visited with her friend Peggy Parker of Charleston.

Reader said she hopes participation in the TEA Party gatherings grows to the point that it “raises the eyebrows” of leaders in a federal government that she said is getting too large.

Parker said her concerns about the growing costs of the federal “social welfare state” prompted her to attend the gathering. She said a small portion of the population is paying a large percentage of taxes, which punishes people for earning and saving money, she contends.

Regarding Illinois politics, Parker said state government needs to be cleaned up and leaders with integrity should be elected into office.

State Rep. Chapin Rose, R-Mahomet, spoke to the gathering, focusing on reports that the state’s projected budget deficit will be $9 billion to $12 billion. He said this number is not accurate because it includes debt from past years, and a more accurate figure would be $3.5 billion to $4 billion.

Rose said proposals to increase income taxes will not close the deficit. He said rapidly rising Medicaid costs are crowding out other budgetary items. He said the state should work with a managed care system and not pay for health care for those who can afford health insurance.

“I am just so happy and glad to see you out here today. It’s going to take the silent majority being vocal to reverse this trend,” Rose said.

Contact Rob Stroud at rstroud@jg-tc.com or 238-6861.

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prairieguy wrote on Apr 15, 2009 6:45 AM:

" Unless all of these disgruntled people make over a quarter of a million dollars a year, then they are sadly misinformed. President Obama has REDUCED their taxes, not increased them. Stop listening to the republican lie machine. "

thinker wrote on Apr 15, 2009 8:38 AM:

" I wonder if any of these people looked at their checks and noticed that the check was a bit larger. Hmmm. That means a tax decrease, not increase. I'm new to this and am pretty independent in my thinking, but I do try to think. I don't take for gospel everything I hear on the news. Also, I watch all the news channels so I can hear news reports for all sides. On Fox this morning, you would think that this was the only thing happening in the United States today. MSNBC barely mentioned it. "

Harry Potter wrote on Apr 15, 2009 8:43 AM:

" He said the state should work with a managed care system and not pay for health care for those who can afford health insurance.

I had to laugh when I read this one. Remember a few months ago the howl from the GOP when the current administration dared to suggest the those veterans with health insurance should pay for their medicare care through their own insurance?

I have to wonder where old Chapin was on that one. I'll bet I know. LOL! "

Farkas wrote on Apr 15, 2009 9:07 AM:

" Well prarie guy, if those folks who make over 250,000 a year are the buisiness owners in your comunity, what do you think these taxes will cause them to do? They will raise prices on their products and services and pass it along to you. Now, who's paying these taxes? Please think this all through. It will hurt us all! "

PARTY GIRL wrote on Apr 15, 2009 9:08 AM:

" Short term tax cuts are not the point. This was not a gathering of right wingers. Concerned citizens are recognizing that we are headed toward exponentially larger government that is not sustainable over the long term. Trillions in debt will take generations to pay back...to the Chinese. This effort hopes to encourage elected officials to control spending before asking for more money. There is sufficient blame for this mess for the DEMS and GOP to share. "

Collatine wrote on Apr 15, 2009 10:12 AM:

" Prairieguy - Unless you're a smoker. And most smokers make less than that amount - in fact, most smokers are working poor. Thus, Obama and Congress has raised taxes on the working poor.

Anyway, it's the principle that people are protesting - it's not Obama. It's the numerous taxes that punish everyone - especially those who don't pay income taxes, because the poor stand to benefit the most from business investment that comes from lower business taxes.

Consider that on most items and services you buy, at least a THIRD is going to the federal government (in the form of taxes on business), and that's BEFORE you pay a state and local sales taxes. That's insane. "

Collatine wrote on Apr 15, 2009 10:17 AM:

" In addition, I think the protests are in angry at both political parties, and how distant they and the federal government are to us. (Note, the one in Chicago refused to let the GOP chair speak).

It's neat to live in a time where we don't have to resort to angry riots to voice our frustrations... and it'll be interesting to see how this grass-roots effort manifests itself in the future elections. "

Matt Toon wrote on Apr 15, 2009 10:22 AM:

" These people will sing a different tune if they have to go to a nursing home, then run out of money after a few months or a few years, and then have to go on Medicare (welfare) -- All of a sudden they'll become enthusiastic supporters of big government and the "welfare state." "

sapient wrote on Apr 15, 2009 10:31 AM:

" Prairieguy: That is just one of the many lies put out by the Obama machine. They just raised taxes on cigarettes. Do only those making over 250K smoke? "

lefty wrote on Apr 15, 2009 11:55 AM:

" Hippies are now protesting taxes? Friggin hippies. "

father bob wrote on Apr 15, 2009 12:23 PM:

" sapient wrote on Apr 15, 2009 10:31 AM:
" Prairieguy: That is just one of the many lies put out by the Obama machine. They just raised taxes on cigarettes. Do only those making over 250K smoke? """"

smokers SHOULD pay the medical costs related to smoking either directly or indirectly through taxes.

i'm tired of paying higher group premiums because of someone else voluntarily ruining their health. "

Becky wrote on Apr 15, 2009 12:47 PM:

" We are so overtaxed today and I'm SICK OF IT! We get taxed on our income, taxed on our property, taxed on every bill we pay, taxed on every item we purchase, taxed on investments/savings, taxed w/social security, small business taxes, licenses, fees and God knows what else that we don't even realized we are being taxed on. I mean, we, as a society, are one of the highest taxed nations in the world. Why? Our schools are crumbling, our roads are crumbling, our "service" offices are understaffed forcing us to wait hours for any kind of service. So, what exactly are WE getting from all of this taxation?

Oh yeah, silly me, the best government money can buy. Grrrrrrrrrrr. "

Matt Toon wrote on Apr 15, 2009 1:19 PM:

" In my previous post, I of course meant MEDICAID not Medicare. "

farkas wrote on Apr 15, 2009 2:38 PM:

" Father Bob,
If I eat too much I affect my health, if I drive a car I could get in a wreck, if I cross the street, I might get run over. If my free time is spent rock climbing or sky-diving, or skateboarding, or skiing or any number of things, it could adversly affect my health. Are you saying I should just sit at home and eat rice cakes and not engage in any behavior YOU might see as bad for me? When one man seaks to control another, that's called Tyranny. If I want to smoke a stogie, what is that to you? Perhaps someone should tax YOUR behavior! "

Tom Andres wrote on Apr 15, 2009 2:43 PM:

" About the only thing I've heard from the MSM on the TEA Parties is that they think it's "mighty suspicious" that the protests are happening now, but not before Obama came to power. Were we supposed to wait until 2012 rolls around to speak out?

I have been protesting our corrupt tax system that favors special interests and out of control spending in DC for decades. I'm a supporter of The Fair Tax (www.fairtax.org) and have been for many years.

During the tax season, I prepare individual tax returns at discounted fees. All across the nation, tax services cost Americans over $300-billion every year! Thats an annual cost of over $1,000 per US citizen, every year (plus the actual TAX BILL itself!). This is a truly senseless and nonproductive burden on our economy. What we need is a new tax system that does NOT tax productive and creative income and that does not require anyone to file a tax return, ever! What we need is a tax system that does not tax the poor at all, one that is transparent. Thats what a national sales tax would do. We need to totally eradicate the IRS!

I have personally been protesting big government since Johnson came to power in 1965 and initiated his War on Poverty that has cost us trillions - only to wage a merciless war on the dignity of poor families. This isnt about Obama. This is about too much power being concentrated in Washington DC. It all began with Roosevelt (Teddy, not FDR) and Wilson, both of whom were so-called Progressives.

Heres a fitting tag line us TEA Party members could use: Its for the children!! "

Matt Toon wrote on Apr 15, 2009 3:20 PM:

" In my previous post, I of course meant MEDICAID not Medicare. "

Mike P wrote on Apr 15, 2009 3:24 PM:

" Ole Gov Quinn, was of this same mind. He had a hand in the effort to get people to mail tea bags back in with their utility payments, to protest rate hikes. This same guy that had a hand in creating CUB in the first place. Many know a little united outrage focused elsewhere, is a great sociological manipulation tool. Our legislature, handed in a budget in overtime, that was 2 billion underfunded, and blamed it on Blago and pay to play. Perhaps someone should define what the term budget means clearly for them.

Other news outlets are covering the tea parties from a different angle, than glossing its intent completely over. Here are some excerpts from one...

Critics of President Barack Obama marked national tax day Wednesday with "tea party" protests that Republicans are calling the birth of a grassroots opposition, but Democrats dismiss as a fraud.
...
Organizer Eric Odom said protests would take place across almost 800 cities in a "new day for the freedom movement."
...
But despite the catchy theme, there were questions about whether the scattered, mostly Republican forces would be able to make an impact, let alone achieve the six-figure turnout predicted by Odom.

...
According to Odom, the tea parties represent the birth of a new grassroots Republican movement able to match Obama's formidable support network.

"New leaders will come into play, new coalitions will form, new tax groups will be born, and a new energy will surround us all across the country," Odom wrote.

"A completely new face will be put on a movement that has suffered at the hands of attempted top down control and old school political hacks over the years."
...

How long before Odom is saying sorry to Rush, Rove, Newt, and others. "

Harry Potter wrote on Apr 15, 2009 4:07 PM:

" If the true motivation of some of the protesters was show, they would have been wearing white sheets. Please note I said SOME, certainly not all. But based on some of the comments made during the election, especially those on line sites that don't censor, I have no doubt that a lot of these folks are simply expressing their disapproval of Obama for other reasons. This seems to be an extension of the whining phase that follows most elections. Of course it's being aided and abetted by the fair and balanced folks and Fox news who will no doubt do their best to keep folks stirred up as long as possible. "

father bob wrote on Apr 15, 2009 4:14 PM:

" farkas wrote on Apr 15, 2009 2:38 PM:
" If I want to smoke a stogie, what is that to you? Perhaps someone should tax YOUR behavior! """"

no problem.....just don't b*tch about the tax effect in the price and how you're being singled out just because you have an addiction.

i also think paying car insurance to cover non-insured motorists is unjust. and just like my health insurance, i have to pay for you to drive your uninsured truck from the trailer park to the 7-11 to get your stogies. "

Collatine wrote on Apr 15, 2009 4:23 PM:

" fb - whether or not the tax is justified (and really... what tax IS?), it is a tax levied on mainly the poor, and that violates the President's and Congress' claim. If the government really thought cigarettes were dangerous, they'd be banned by now.

My drug of choice happens to be caffeine delivered in coffee. If they taxed coffee like they tax cigarettes, we'd see a real revolt! lol "

sapient wrote on Apr 15, 2009 4:28 PM:

" FB: That is beside the point. The point is that Prarieguy said only those making 250k will pay higher taxes. "

The Question wrote on Apr 15, 2009 4:39 PM:

" Tax Tip: Not once does the Constitution of the United States of America mention an income tax. Keep screaming that when they take you to court for nonpayment of taxes. "

csjenks90 wrote on Apr 15, 2009 4:46 PM:

" Kinda funny when you truly look at and listen to what Obama and Biden said during the campaign...'If you make less than 250k married, 200k single, you will not have an increase in ANY taxes...'

Then, less than 70 days in office, here comes a Fed tax increase in cigs...which doesn't affect me since I can't stand smoking, but isn't a Fed tax increase on cigs a tax increase...oh wait, all smokers make more than 200k....nevermind. "

father bob wrote on Apr 15, 2009 5:02 PM:

" csjenks90 wrote on Apr 15, 2009 4:46 PM:
"less than 70 days in office, here comes a Fed tax increase in cigs...which doesn't affect me since I can't stand smoking, but isn't a Fed tax increase on cigs a tax increase...oh wait, all smokers make more than 200k....nevermind. """"""

another inbred heard from "

father bob wrote on Apr 15, 2009 5:10 PM:

" sapient wrote on Apr 15, 2009 4:28 PM:
" FB: That is beside the point. """"

no, it's not beside the point....you miss my point. "

father bob wrote on Apr 15, 2009 5:23 PM:

" sapient wrote on Apr 15, 2009 4:28 PM:
" FB: That is beside the point. The point is that Prarieguy said only those making 250k will pay higher taxes. """""

meaning 95% of all americans just received a tax cut.... we make over $250,000 and i'm more than happy to pay my share. i'm fortunate to be able to make that kind of money for doing little besides consulting while my wife is an accountant...americans are spoiled. "

Jim1969 wrote on Apr 15, 2009 5:24 PM:

" Why is it that some think when the talk about taxes come up it is only about income taxes. There are taxes upon taxes, some are called taxes and others are disguised as fees.

Stop and think for a moment how much you really pay in taxes every year. You have income, SSI, Medicaid, Sales tax, Gas tax, property tax, use taxes for things like phones and cable TV, 911 "fees", and the list goes on and on. 9 times out of 10 when the government reduces taxes in one area then just raise the taxes or create new ones in other areas. "

farkas wrote on Apr 15, 2009 6:44 PM:

" Father Bob,
Typical for a leftist is the habit of attacking the person making the argument rather than to rebut the argument. You haven't a clue as to my place of residence nor my level of addiction. And, if I in fact do live in a trailer park, are you saying that that is to be looked down upon? Not a very compassionate fellow are you? And is it you're habbit to accuse people of breaking the law when you disagree with them. I'll ease your mind; My family and I are well protected by nicely comprehensive insurance, you'll be fine if we collide. I'm fairly confident that the moniker "father" isn't in reference to your religious affiliation. Most Catholics seem to me to be friendly.
Funny thing; I don't worry about whether you have an addiction, a trailer, or insurance, this IS (as of now) a free country, you can have what you wish as long as you don't take it from someone else. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Apr 15, 2009 7:49 PM:

" we make over $250,000 and i'm more than happy to pay my share. i'm fortunate to be able to make that kind of money for doing little besides consulting....
--------------

Sitting on your rear-end collecting "welfare" is called "consulting" now, is it?

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

accountant....well well well...we've quite the profile now, don't we? "

coonbug wrote on Apr 15, 2009 8:14 PM:

" What was really interesting wasnt how many attended (around 100) or even what their complaints were (they didnt care about taxes and spending for the past eight years, why now?); but who said what.

"State Rep. Chapin Rose, R-Mahomet, spoke to the gathering, focusing on reports that the states projected budget deficit will be $9 billion to $12 billion. He said this number is not accurate because it includes debt from past years, and a more accurate figure would be $3.5 billion to $4 billion.

Rose said proposals to increase income taxes will not close the deficit. He said rapidly rising Medicaid costs are crowding out other budgetary items. He said the state should work with a managed care system and not pay for health care for those who can afford health insurance."

I have two questions for Rep. Rose. First off, were you joking that the budget deficit of $9-12 billion was inaccurate because it includes debt from past years? If not, then I guess the same logic holds true for the federal budgets deficit, right? President Barack Obama can now disown (not worry about) the $490 billion deficit that former President George W. Bush and the Republican leadership left behind. Yahoo! You've made their day!

Second question is this; Rep. Rose, you said you didnt think the State should pay for health care for those that can afford health insurance. Are you therefore advocating dropping health insurance coverage for State employees and retirees? If so, I wouldnt let those employees know about your plans sir, because if you do, you will not get re-elected. Thats a fact. "

what? wrote on Apr 15, 2009 11:12 PM:

" Complaining about your taxes is like entering a maze with no way out. "

Locke wrote on Apr 15, 2009 11:25 PM:

" "Typical for a leftist is the habit of attacking the person making the argument rather than to rebut the argument."

There was a point? Oh, you mean how the Obama campaign responded to McCain campaign's charge that Obama would actually cause you to pay more in taxes than less. Gotcha.

Bottom line is for the cigarette smoker, they are still paying less taxes that with Bush or outlined by McCain. Yeah, let's forget about the fact taxes have decreased and cite things entirely out of context.

Actually, now that I think about it, there wasn't really an argument madde worth rebutting. Nevermind. "

Dally wrote on Apr 16, 2009 6:44 AM:

" Republicans like this "Teabagging" idea.
We all know Sen. Craig approves! "

ed miller wrote on Apr 16, 2009 8:06 AM:

" Locke, do you proofread your spew at all? "

Tom Andres wrote on Apr 16, 2009 9:22 AM:

" To Locke (and all the anti-protester protesters), here's how it works:

A basic premise: ALL taxes and ALL national debt, ALL government spending, is paid for ONLY by end consumers. Thats the real definition of the term: trickle down.

(1) ALL taxes and fees paid to government by commerce become an imbedded cost included in the price of all goods and services offered to the end consumer.

(2) As taxes on wealthy individuals and members of commerce are increased, those increased taxes are added to the cost of all goods and services.

(3) The end consumer (Republican, Democrat, Independent, Libertarian, Socialist, Communist, even illegal immigrants) pays all costs of federal, state and local government!

(4) If the cost of government represents 25% of our GNP, 25% of the price of all goods and services goes to the government. If the cost of government represents 50% of our GNP, then 50% of the price of all goods and services goes to the government. And so on.

(5) Big government, small government, the end consumer pays it all.

Want reform? See www.fairtax.org. "

Bernie wrote on Apr 16, 2009 9:29 AM:

" Chapin Rose would have a very difficult time purchasing health coverage in the private market on his own. Even if he could find coverage he could afford, it would be totally unreliable if he or a member of his family ever got really sick and needed to use it. Private health insurers make money two ways: they either price-gouge healthy people or deny ofen desperately needed medical care to sick ones. This is the opposite of a good business model for consumers. Private heatlh insurance is in fact a cash cow for a relative few at the expense of the many. Eliminate this wasetful, immoral, unnecessary middleman and utilize efficiencies of scale, and Illinois would save $17 Billion in currently wasted and diverted health care bureaucratic overhead dollars alone. Coles County would save $500,000 per year, and perhaps be able to offer some tax relief. America could save $350 Billion/yr. and revitalize our economy. It's called "uniting together for the good of the whole" and we do it already for all sorts of other things: highways; libraries; parks; fire, police, child and military portection; schools; health coverage for everyone over 65 ...just to name a few. "

father bob wrote on Apr 16, 2009 10:06 AM:

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Apr 15, 2009 7:49 PM:
"accountant....well well well...we've quite the profile now, don't we? """""

you on the other hand seem to have nothing to do but bake cookies....and whine. typical spoiled american female. "

father bob wrote on Apr 16, 2009 10:09 AM:

" and neo....if you really wish to profile me, this is the company i retired from and do some consulting for.

http://www.flir.com/US/ "

red,white,blue wrote on Apr 16, 2009 10:15 AM:

" Thinker notes that Fox is covering the tea parties but MSNBC is not. What a surprise! You probably also think what that CNN reporter did was 'reporting' too right? Also, that extra money in your paycheck? Might want to check out my post on the 'tax protest planned for Tuesday' blog or you could well be in for another little surprise come next year at tax time. Sadly I don't think you'll be alone. "

The Question wrote on Apr 16, 2009 12:19 PM:

" Thinker notes that Fox is covering the tea parties but MSNBC is not.
---
Wrong, Fox News did not merely "cover" the tea parties. They PROMOTED the tea parties for WEEKS ahead of time. "

The Question wrote on Apr 16, 2009 1:15 PM:

" Examples of Fox News' and Fox Business' April 15 tea party coverage included:
- Discussing how to show support for tea parties, Fox & Friends' Gretchen Carlson claimed: "You can hang [a teabag] from your mirror, too, like fuzzy dice."
- Fox News host Megyn Kelly claimed that "you can join the tea party action from your home if you go to the FoxNation.com ... a virtual tax day tea party."
- Fox Business anchor Cody Willard asked, "Guys, when are we going to wake up and start fighting the fascism that seems to be permeating this country?"
- Willard further stated that conservatives and liberals are "both fascists who are taking all of my money and building up corporate America with my welfare."
- Fox News host John Gibson expressed "hope[]" that millions of people" would participate in the protests.
- Fox Business anchor David Asman told viewers they "need[ed] to go" to the tea party merchandise website "no matter what side of the issue you're on."
- Willard asked a protester: "Are you worried about me taking these dollars from you ... or destroying those dollars? I mean that's what the government does anyway."
- On The O'Reilly Factor, Fox News contributor Dennis Miller claimed that "the average American taxpayer feels like they've just been shot in the head in a deck chair on a sinking boat."
- Fox News host Sean Hannity asked contributor Newt Gingrich "one serious question": "Is this now a battle between capitalism and socialism?"
- Hannity also asked: "Why don't we have more anger towards government, or is this the anger that finally is beginning to emerge?"
- Discussing the protests on Hannity, RedState's Erick Erickson stated, "[I]f we don't do something, if we don't turn the corner, we're going to be enslaved to the government."
- Also on Hannity, radio host Bill "Bubba" Bussey said it was "time for a revolution."
- Hannity also featured a Thomas Paine imitator to plug the tea parties. "

The Question wrote on Apr 16, 2009 1:41 PM:

" Funny that you right wingers had no problems whatsoever spending borrowed trillions to fund an American military-industrial complex that kills thousands of innocent Iraqis and is vastly larger than any possible threat on the planet Earth. It wasnt until government money was aimed at desperately needed construction jobs and mortgage relief that you suddenly perceived the end of life as we know it. "

open8d wrote on Apr 16, 2009 3:18 PM:

" Hey coonbug, do you know why Chapin Rose wouldn't get re-elected if government workers had to pay for their own insurance? Because the government is the largest employer. That seems kind of backward to me. "

father bob wrote on Apr 16, 2009 5:38 PM:

" t's nice to know that at some point, you can cross a line with Washington Post media critic Howard Kurtz:

The media coverage even became a factor in the reporting. At a Chicago demonstration, CNN's Susan Roesgen started arguing with a protester over why he referred to President Obama as a fascist. "I think you get the general tenor of this," she reported. "It's anti-government. Anti-CNN. This is highly promoted by the right-wing conservative network Fox." Fox anchor Shepard Smith later laughed off her words.

On the other hand, this brief rant by Fox Business Network anchor Cody Willard, posted by a Daily Kos contributor, didn't meet my definition of fair and balanced. Speaking of a young girl, Willard says: "Now she has to pay for the $800-billion Republican-Democrat fascist stimulus package . . . Guys, when are we going to wake up and start fighting the fascism that seems to be permeating this country?"

Guys, what happened to we're-just-covering-the-events "

Harry Potter wrote on Apr 16, 2009 7:36 PM:

" The old geezers in the picture at the top of this thread were given a letter telling them them would be getting a stimulus check in the mail for 250 dollars. Think they'll send it back? lol! "

Locke wrote on Apr 16, 2009 8:08 PM:

" No, I don't proofread.

First, it's marginally worth my time to even come here and comment amongst all the local peons -- let alone proofread.

Secondly, since you don't really contribute anything productive, I figure giving you something to whine about (my spelling) fills you pathetic rural existence with purpose. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Apr 16, 2009 8:25 PM:

" "i retired from and do some consulting for. http://www.flir.com/US/ "

translation...retired janitor from a thermal imaging company...and now they call you up to find out where you hid the window cleaner...got it...

keep blathering though....

...but hey...how about serving up on here your IP octet, Reverend Sister Roberta...? "

Collatine wrote on Apr 16, 2009 9:56 PM:

" When did this become a debate about Fox News??? Hannity is not a journalist, nor does he claim to be. Fox News clearly hit a chord with people, because their ratings kick butt everywhere. (There isn't a single market in the country where CNN or MSNBC have better ratings than Fox). Even so, they still only have about 1% of the population watching it (no one really watches cable news!!!) So don't defuse the real debate by saying "Faux news" or whatever.

This is NOT a liberal/conservative issue. People of all political persuasions have serious issues with passing debt onto our children's children - and yes, conservatives cried foul during the debt-funded war of the Bush years (why do you think they stayed home during the last election???) , but the debt Dubya racked up doesn't compare to Obama.

He has more proposed more debt in 2 months than all the rest of the administrations spent in 2 centuries COMBINED. Yeah, I don't really want to hand to my daughter's children debt we spent today. Let's pay for our programs with cash, and let our children pay for theirs.

What Obama is proposing is akin to getting a mortgage in the name of your unborn grandchild, and you STATE the income you think he or she will make, and the bank approves the loan, but the payments won't kick in until the grandchild is 18.

Tom - GREAT post. Hopefully the anger against the tax code will coalesce into a new revolution in next year's elections.

Obama passed the first increase in federal taxes in fifteen years. Anyone wanna bet more's a comin??? Throw the incumbents out in two years -yeah Johnson, I'm including you - any incumbent. "

ed miller wrote on Apr 16, 2009 10:35 PM:

" The Question wrote on Apr 16, 2009 1:41 PM:
" It wasnt until government money was aimed at desperately needed construction jobs and mortgage relief that you suddenly perceived the end of life as we know it. "

LMAO! What a joke. Where is the mortgage relief? The banks aren't lending out. No one even knows where most of the TARP money is. The banks are still handing out big bonuses while the Treasury department plays dumb and tries to shift blame. Many of the banks along with AIG and GM have invested billions of their bailout money overseas. How is that helping us?

Most of the vaunted construction projects wont even start for years and many of them are only temporary. Instead we pump money into catfish genome testing. That will light a fire under the economy, won't it?

No, the long term stable jobs, that we need will disappear as employers downsize and/or move overseas to alleviate the higher taxes and "carbon" fines. Even as the government hints at these new taxes, it stagnates hiring and investment as employers wait it out. "

medic57 wrote on Apr 17, 2009 1:53 AM:

" More than 100 gather to protest high taxes.

That's approximately .80 percent of coles county population. "

Early Bird wrote on Apr 17, 2009 6:10 AM:

" Fox News clearly hit a chord with people, because their ratings kick butt everywhere.

Absolutely. They have found their niche. There are millions of folks who buy into the propaganda put out by Fox news. Feeding on fear and hatred is nothing new for politicians, however it is a recent phenomenon for a so called news outlet to do it.

Back when the Republicans were in power, Fox news spent most of their energy making excuses for the federal government flubs, but now that the Dems have taken over they spend all their energy attacking the government, particularly about everything Obama does and just like with the Limbaugh ditto-heads , their naive viewers eat it up.

As far as Hannity goes, he used to introduce his radio program as comprehensive news and political coverage. I don't know if he still does that or not.

And the fact that many of the fans who view the spewing of their pundits as news is not in question, too many do. You see evidence of that on this and many other sites daily.

Considering the relative small number of people who showed up for these events, I would say Fox news must be disappointed. They did work awfully hard to promote these rallies, which in itself seems rather a perverse activity for a news outlet. I even read where many of their pundits got caught grossly exsagerating the number of attendees and many of he locations. I saw one report where Neil Cavuto out and out lied on his show by tripling the actual number of attendees at the rally he attended. "

The Question wrote on Apr 17, 2009 6:13 AM:

" When did this become a debate about Fox News???
---
It was always a debate about Fox News. Fox News SPONSORED and PROMOTED the astroturf, right-wing propaganda "tea parties." "

The Question wrote on Apr 17, 2009 8:10 AM:

" LMAO! What a joke. Where is the mortgage relief? The banks aren't lending out. No one even knows where most of the TARP money is.
---
I tend to agree with you there, Edward. I'd like to see the fraud-peddling financial corporations nationalized and liquidated and fresh alternatives set up, free of the greedy crooks who put us where we are. "

The Question wrote on Apr 17, 2009 8:34 AM:

" According to the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office, the effective federal tax rate what individuals and businesses pay after they take exemptions, deductions, credits and so forth is lower now, across the board, than it was 30 years ago. The average rate of 20.7 percent, and thats all federal taxes, including payroll taxes. The rate is now than it was during the presidential terms of Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bushs term and Bill Clinton. You remember Clintons term, of course, That was a period of dramatic economic growth in which the federal deficit was eliminated. "

The Question wrote on Apr 17, 2009 8:53 AM:

" Bu it's not really about taxes, you know. It's about the strange, uniform paleness of the people at the "tea parties." "

ed miller wrote on Apr 17, 2009 9:46 AM:

" The Question wrote on Apr 17, 2009 8:10 AM:
" I tend to agree with you there, Edward. I'd like to see the fraud-peddling financial corporations nationalized and liquidated and fresh alternatives set up, free of the greedy crooks who put us where we are. "

Oh, and the Government is not full or greedy crooks? Do you really want the government in charge of anything? They are incapable of efficiency. Look at Amtrack or even FEMA compared to Habitat for Humanity in New Orleans. Sorry, the private sector is much better equipped to run the economy with reasonable federal oversight. "

father bob wrote on Apr 17, 2009 9:46 AM:

" The Question wrote on Apr 17, 2009 8:53 AM:
" Bu it's not really about taxes, you know. It's about the strange, uniform paleness of the people at the "tea parties." """""

careful there TQ, you're treading on holy soil....but you're exactly correct.

99% of the people attending these tea parties ranting about the "constitution" are clueless to the fact the president studied constitutional law at hardvard....they really truly don't care. it's all about skin color. "

father bob wrote on Apr 17, 2009 9:49 AM:

" if a white john mccain were in office, people would be ponying up calling it their patriotic duty....doing what right for america. "

Collatine wrote on Apr 17, 2009 11:14 AM:

" The Question - so it's about race now?? You have such a small mind sometimes. Plus, this isn't a Republican/Democrat thing- as the multi-racial, multi-party, "thanks for coming Mr. Steele, but no you can't speak" tea party in Chicago demonstrated. It's a "we don't want to sink our kids' future" thing.

But BRILLIANT point about Clinton. Clinton CUT federal spending, and didn't raise taxes at all in his last 6 years (he actually became conservative in his policies, while destroying Newt, driving Republicans insane lol). Clinton cut spending, brought the federal budget UNDER control and created a surplus, and we had years of prosperity. That's the key!

As Dubya proved, deficit spending don't work. So why is Obama making Dubya look like a miser??? Let's bring a Clinton-esque governance back, instead of this 'put it on my kid's credit card' Obama. Clinton didn't really have principles of course... he did what would keep him in power (he was a post-modern president). Obama, though, has principles, and I don't think he'll compromise, which is scary (just like Dubya wouldn't compromise).

Clinton had a fresh, mostly new Congress to force him to do all that, of course. Hence my "throw the incumbents out!" in the last post. It's when the politicians become institutionalized that they become corrupt. (and ok, I don't really think Johnson is corrupt, but you get the idea). "

The Question wrote on Apr 17, 2009 11:44 AM:

" You ought to feel EXTREMELY safe, citizens. The United States spends two times more on its military than all the other countries of the world COMBINED.
Last year, we spent $625 billion in taxpayer dollars on the military, while all the other 200 or so countries together spent $500 billion. Add in nuclear weapons costs, Veterans Affairs, interest on money borrowed to fund previous wars and the current wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and the cost total for the military-industrial complex goes up to an incredible ONE TRILLION DOLLARS A YEAR.
And they can't even stop a handful of Saudis armed with box cutters. "

The Question wrote on Apr 17, 2009 11:46 AM:

" Sorry, the private sector is much better equipped to run the economy with reasonable federal oversight.
---
But we didn't have ANY oversight, Edward, reasonable or otherwise. You right wingers said the "free market" would "police itself" and shower us with lemonade, remember?
Well, we got hosed all right. "

The Question wrote on Apr 17, 2009 11:53 AM:

" Ah yes, Collatine. All-white, largely redneck demonstrations against the first black president, "protesting" taxes that haven't been increased. It's all just a big coincidence, isn't it? "

attainedage wrote on Apr 17, 2009 11:59 AM:

" Wow, Harry and Question and fatherlessbob, congrats! I see you have resurrected Early Bird. That's great. You must have finally found his password written down somewhere underneath all the clutter on your desk. LOL

And, hey, EB. How have you been? I see you're still perfectly aligned with your alter egos which brings up the point again: why four of you? Oh , thats right, so everyone thinks theres more than just one lefty loon posting on here.

Strength in numbers, right? Kind of like the 100,000 man march, er, I mean the million man march a few years back. LMAO. "

The Question wrote on Apr 17, 2009 12:47 PM:

" None of those people were there for the actual tea party, you know. They were all just there to see the rock band. "

The Question wrote on Apr 17, 2009 1:02 PM:

" From April 6 to April 15, Fox News aired at least 107 COMMERCIAL PROMOTIONS for the upcoming tea party protests. Fox News repeatedly described them as "FNC Tax Day Tea Parties." On April 15, four of the network's hosts broadcast live, breathlessly, from various tea parties. "

nothingsfree wrote on Apr 17, 2009 2:37 PM:

" Studied Constitutional Law at Harvard? Does that make him the Expert? Wow! How do you address those that Studied Consitutional Law at Harvard that don't agree with him? I think most people would agree that law school simply teaches you how to get the law interpreted in the way you want it interpreted. Obama excels in this area. Good/Bad - only time will tell. However, history does tell us that the government has never managed anything well. My opinion, no way you can preach Socialism and the Constitution in the same breath. "

Cognitus wrote on Apr 17, 2009 5:08 PM:

" Prairieguy - Unless you're a smoker. And most smokers make less than that amount - in fact, most smokers are working poor. Thus, Obama and Congress has raised taxes on the working poor.
======================================
Why are smokers poor?? Maybe because they smoke, maybe because they smoke when they should be working.
I have NO SYMPATHY whatsoever for smokers; they WILLINGLY pay that tax, which they could easily avoid. Like people tho play the lottery.
Don't cry on MY shoulder about cig taxes or lottery loses. "

Cognitus wrote on Apr 17, 2009 5:11 PM:

" Sapient: That is just one of the many lies put out by the Obama machine. They just raised taxes on cigarettes. Do only those making over 250K smoke? "

It is NOT a LIE, ***head.
People who smoke WILLINGLY pay taxes which they could easily avoid. If they want to GIVE FREELY money to the govt, OK by me, but DO NOT CALL OBAMA A LIAR BECAUSE OF THEIR WILLINGNESS TO DO SO.
Get your head on straight -- and stop smoking. "

Cognitus wrote on Apr 17, 2009 5:12 PM:

" Becky:we, as a society, are one of the highest taxed nations in the world.

Ever bought gas in Canada????
A meal in England??? "

Cognitus wrote on Apr 17, 2009 5:16 PM:

" Andres:About the only thing I've heard from the MSM on the TEA Parties is that they think it's "mighty suspicious" that the protests are happening now, but not before Obama came to power. Were we supposed to wait until 2012 rolls around to speak out?

Not necessarily; WHY DIDN'T YOU START WHEN BUSH DOUBLED THE NATIONAL DEBT. DIDN'T SEE YOU COMPLAINING THEN????
Nope, this was purely a political ploy;
you kept your mouth shut and let GWB double the national debt and never even a whimper. This Tea Party business is simply a political ploy, dishonest and typical of Republicans "

Cognitus wrote on Apr 17, 2009 5:32 PM:

" Andres:I have been protesting our corrupt tax system that favors special interests and out of control spending in DC for decades. I'm a supporter of The Fair Tax (www.fairtax.org) and have been for many years."

Andres has been conned by the fair-taxers.

First, retirees have paid income taxes on all their income as it came IN; NOW Andres wants to tax this money again as it is spent. So the fraudulent "Fair Tax" double-taxes retirees.

The second objection is more subtle, and I doubt Andres will understand it.
Get your calculator. They say the Fair Tax will be about 23% or so.
But the Fair Tax LAW says that the percentage is applied to the GROSS cost (THAT IS, purchase price PLUS tax). So if you buy an article for $100,
you expect to pay about $123. Not SO!!
You will pay about $130 because 23% of the GROSS = $130 is $29.90 for tax.
The assertion that it will be about 23% is a mathematical LIE to ensnare the mathematically incompotent, because most assume that is a percentage of the PURCHASE price, not the GROSS expenditure.
Sorry, Andres, you've been lied to and swallowed it hook, line, and sinker. "

Cognitus wrote on Apr 17, 2009 5:36 PM:

" Andres:During the tax season, I prepare individual tax returns at discounted fees. All across the nation, tax services cost Americans over $300-billion every year!

I'm sorry that the American public is so mathematically incompetent. I've been doing my own taxes every year since my first return in 1946. Nothing to it if you keep good records and can read and perform the 4 basic mathematical operations.
Only those with more complicated situations, oil & gas, etc. should need help. "

Cognitus wrote on Apr 17, 2009 6:43 PM:

" nothingsfree:"My opinion, no way you can preach Socialism and the Constitution in the same breath. "

The Constitution, in case you've forgotten, starts off, "WE THE PEOPLE..."
So the Constitution IS a "socialist document".

It doesn't start off, "WE the supporters of George Bush...." or
"WE who will evade taxes to the last man...." "

Cognitus wrote on Apr 17, 2009 6:49 PM:

" Collatine:If the government really thought cigarettes were dangerous, they'd be banned by now.

NOT SO. Congress just doesn't have the guts to ban them. I've always thought it absurd that Congress and law enforcement officers have such a tizzy about marijuana when many more lives are shortened by tobacco.
The Congressional representatives from the "tobacco states" also have something to do with failure to ban.
Put them together with the gutless and you've got a majority..... "

Cognitus wrote on Apr 17, 2009 6:57 PM:

" Collatine:" Tax Tip: Not once does the Constitution of the United States of America mention an income tax. "

Read it again, including the Amendments: IT DOES NOW. "

The Question wrote on Apr 17, 2009 7:22 PM:

" Remember when all you right-wing spinners snarled that the crowd of 75,000 people who turned out to cheer Barack Obama at a Portland rally was really only there to see a rock band? That's probably why McCain and Mighty Moose won the election, don't you think? "

Cognitus wrote on Apr 17, 2009 7:23 PM:

" Andres:"Want reform? See www.fairtax.org"

Andres, I went to this website and it is an ABSOLUTE LIE. They have a calculator which presumes to tell you how much you will save with a "fair tax". So you start through their calculator and almost immediately they ask your INCOME.

Are you THAT STUPID?? The "fair tax" is a SALES TAX, NOT an INCOME TAX. So when they pretend to tell you how much you're going to save based on your INCOME they are DEMONSTRATING A LIE,
A BIIIIIG LIE, and I'm sure there are those so stupid they follow that calculation to the end.......

Wake up, and quit riding that damned "FAIR TAX" horse; you've just been bucked off into the hor... manure. "

The Question wrote on Apr 17, 2009 8:25 PM:

" My opinion, no way you can preach Socialism and the Constitution in the same breath.
---
Thank you for your (absolutely incorrect) constitutional opinion. Were you the president of the Harvard Law Review, too? Do you know what that is? Have you ever heard of it?
There's no need to capitalize ""socialism," by the way. It's a political philosophy, not something you have to worship. "

Cornfed&Cornbread wrote on Apr 17, 2009 10:48 PM:

" I think this thing been blown completely
out of sin-tax. "

Jim1969 wrote on Apr 18, 2009 12:52 AM:

" A socialist is a political advocate of socialism.

Socialism is a political theory advocating state ownership of industry.

Where in the US Constitution does it advocate the "state" (or federal) government owning and controlling the industry of this nation.

The US Constitution may be considered a social document in that it spells out rights of individuals as well as the individual states and the federal governments responsibilities and limits, but it is in no way a socialist document. "

Cognitus wrote on Apr 18, 2009 11:48 AM:

" I've one more comment to make on the fraud of the "fair tax".
First, surely it's clear by now that it is a SALES TAX, tho Andres & friends seems to think it is a sort of INCOME tax.
BUT the next question is ON WHAT ITEMS would the "fair tax" be imposed?
Woule I pay when I go to the grocery store, the lumberyard, the hardware store, WalMart?? Sure.
But will people pay the sales tax when they buy stocks, bonds??? What about mansions? yachts? a Rolls Royce?
a private jet?? Will a builder pay the "fair tax" on his lumber? and will you then pay the "fair tax" when you buy his house??
I'll let you guess. But remember perhaps 10 year ago Congress imposed a "luxury tax" on ... expensive cars, yachts, etc. (I confess I've forgotten exactly what items got the luxury tax.)
But the people who buy such items are also the people who "buy" Congress, so these taxes were quietly wiped out. AND very shrewdly; the wealthy could not plead inability to pay, so I recall one device was that they got behind the boat-builders, the working men in Maine who had built the fancy luxury boats, and got them to complain -- so in the public eye, Congress was "justified" in quashing the luxury tax because it was "hurting working men".
So just be sure that when a group sets up their own deceptive website to urge a new formula for taxation that not very many people in Coles County will find their taxes reduced; the reductions will be in the wealthy suburbs -- and we will make up the difference. "

CLICK TO ENLARGE

TEA (Taxed Enough Already) Party attendees make a hot cup of tea Tuesday evening (April 14, 2009) during the rally held outside in the chilly temperatures at Morton Park in Charleston. (Photo by Ken Trevarthan).