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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Lee Enterprises

Wednesday, April 8, 2009 9:38 PM CDT
LETTER: Home schools show 'hope for better future'

LEONIDAS H. MILLER, Mattoon

In the truly uplifting story about home schooling (David Crary, Times-Courier, March 6, p. C1) we notice what home schoolers have in common. By today’s trends they have large families, a truly good tendency. They show a pattern of grit and determination which is willing to sacrifice frills for the sake of keeping wholesome family bonds. Their sacrifices are of a life-giving kind. These we need.

One can imagine that in their home learning center, they can display the Ten Commandments in a place of honor without fear of the state or the ACLU forbidding it. In other ways parental values are more strongly transmitted to their children. One can bet that their children are well-trained in the three Rs, reading, ’riting, and ’rithmetic.

The story’s picture showed a bookcase filled with books. We can bet they have a higher caliber than faddish best sellers filled with sugar-coated pablum. In the bookcase did we see the full story of the Pilgrims on display? It was through them that three important features began in America: the rule of law, private property, and free-market economics.

We should name religious freedom as a fourth and the foremost feature of American life, which they brought.

This was part of American life more than 100 years before our independence from the “taxaholic” King George III.

For more than three centuries these four features of American life were woven into the fabric of American society. They served us well, standing the test of time.

Irresistibly, I have digressed. To me the home schools show strong hope for America’s better future, for education must be the most important field of struggle where America’s future is to be won. They are today’s pilgrims. Keep it up!

LEONIDAS H. MILLER

Mattoon

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The Question wrote on Apr 9, 2009 6:51 AM:

" Yes, if you want to subject your child to religious-nut fascist lunacy, a home school is just the place to do it. "

CrowWoman wrote on Apr 9, 2009 8:08 AM:

" I found this letter disturbing, but I am not sure exactly why. Maybe because it seems to be judging the quality of students and their families, based on how the students are educated. When it comes to a better future, we're all in this together. "

father bob wrote on Apr 9, 2009 9:46 AM:

" ms miller.....have you ever spoken to your doctor about prozac? "

exbricklayer wrote on Apr 9, 2009 12:34 PM:

" That breeze you feel is my 4 year old blowing past you on the information superhighway. "

Harry Potter wrote on Apr 9, 2009 4:22 PM:

" I agree CrowWoman. I kept wondering when it was going. Very strange.... "

Mike P wrote on Apr 10, 2009 2:31 PM:

" Branch davidians and many other groups have utilized the opprtunity to home school. That being said, there are other reasons to home school, besides trying to completely control a childs exposures to the outside world.

I know a few parents who took it on, because the public system was failing their child, or they fell behind in studies due to illness. Religion or personal views had nothing to do with it, they did what they had to, to keep their child progressing. Its a challenging and expensive persuit. Its often also much harder to keep a kid focused, with the numerous distractions containd in their own home, as they soon found out. One child still in school is back in the public setting, in a different school system, and doing much better.

Few things raised exclusively in bubbles, thrive when they eventually have to venture outside of them. Part of life is learning to deal with all that exist in it, good or bad. Learning from your own and others mistakes is a crucial process, to help you grow as a person. Being informed, and facing choices, makes you better prepared to face life, than limited information, and carefully limited choices or exposures. Even your immune system is built on these same principles. Usually the more things you are exposed to over time, the stronger your immune system eventually becomes. The mind works pretty much the same way. "

sapient wrote on Apr 10, 2009 5:07 PM:

" Homeschooled kids as a group score higher on tests than public schooled kids. U.S. kids rank close to the bottom of industrialized countries. The one problem with home schooling to the lefties is they can't come under the propagandizing (is that a word?) of the atheistic, socialistic, revisionistic public educational system. "

Harry Potter wrote on Apr 11, 2009 7:13 AM:

" Socialization skills are learned at school. I think home schooled kids miss out on that. I have worked with a lot of kids who have been put in the public schools after years of home schooling and have found that generally speaking they have difficulty in making friends and fitting in. This is not always the case, but usually it is.

For those that lament the quality of education is the fault of the schools, I would say you are wrong. The problems we have in this country stem from the lack of involvement of too many parents, who have abdicated their responsibility for their child's education. It's just too easy to blame the teachers, the unions and the school officials. The absolutely rediculous and uninformed remarks made by one poster last evening at 5:07 PM are exactly what I'm stalking about. Those are the sort of things the right wing politicians and pundits use as their talking points for their ignorant audience who buys into in hook line and sinker.

As with most situations, we should be suspicious when people try to apply a simple solution to a complex problem. That tactic has been used successfully for years by the right winger types but had resulted in nothing. One would think people would wake up and realize they've duped. The biggest critics of our education system only offer complaints and never have any solutions. I guess it's easier to sit back and blame than to actually get involved with your child's education.

But of course there are those who want to raise their kids in a bubble. You have to feel sympathy for the kids of some of the folks who post on here that preach hate, fear and ignorance. "

medic57 wrote on Apr 11, 2009 8:25 AM:

" ms miller.....have you ever spoken to your doctor about prozac?

I don't know abow about her, but I have. :)

Where's Susan, this one is cut right from her playbook. "

The Question wrote on Apr 11, 2009 7:51 PM:

" The right wingers hate public education because it's a civilizing force that aims us toward equality and reason. Openly or covertly, they regard free speech and reason and compassion as liberal vices to be eradicated. Truth, too. They despise the Constitution and art as well, regarding both as subversive. They worship, or pretend to worship, fundamentalist religion. They find it so useful for manipulating the morons. They actually do worship guns, money and fascist power, with all their black little hearts. "

Jim1969 wrote on Apr 11, 2009 8:35 PM:

" Socialization and the learning of social skills is something that can, and by all rights, should occur at places or more places than school.

You can not say in one breath that it is more of the parents fault for a child's lack of success in academics in public school because the have given up all involvement and responsibility in their child's education and then in the next breath say that a child needs to be in school to be socialized and learn important social skills.

While I totally agree that many parents are not as active in their child's education as they could or should be there is a lot more to the problem of poorly educated kids than just parental involvement.

We have teachers who are poorly paid given the level of education and responsibility that is demanded of them. We have teachers who once they reach tenure and know their jobs are almost bullet proof stop really trying. We have a system that is forced to teach for the tests and has little time for anything other than making sure their students score high enough to keep the government off their backs. We have schools who would rather buy new football jerseys or put in a new floor on the basketball court than buy new text books. We have math books that look like they are written by history experts and history books that look like they are written by mathematicians they have so many errors in them.

To paraphrase what has already been said we don't need a simple solution to a complex problem, but at the same time we do not need a single complex solution to what is not much more than a string of simple problems. All we need are the right solution(s). "

Hammbone wrote on Apr 12, 2009 6:55 AM:

" I asked a Home schooled Kid he was 15-16 yrs old ,what was 8x8 and he didnt know. Clearly the child isnt learning, or the parents wernt teaching him much of anything. I feel really sorry for this person. This was simple math. "

Harry Potter wrote on Apr 12, 2009 11:10 AM:

" We have teachers who once they reach tenure and know their jobs are almost bullet proof stop really trying.

This is a total myth that's perpetuated by the anti education folks. Any administrator worth his or her salt knows how to get rid of teachers like that.

I will agree that some folks stay around for too long and reach a point where they are just going through the motions and builing up their pensions.

As far as saying the problems were all caused by lack of parental involvement, I should have said a lot of the problems. As I said it, it appears that I meant that was the only problem. Sorry for the confusion.

And as far as socialization skills, yes kids have a lot of places to learn them, but I maintain most of that learning takes place at school.

I do appreciate your comments and agree with a lot of the things you said, Jim 1969. "

Mike P wrote on Apr 12, 2009 2:21 PM:

" Its easter break, you sure the kid wasn't just home from the Mattoon public schools. They're math scores are on that par it seems. Could also be child was home schooled on a unit 2 backed or recomended curriculum.

Had the opportunity to help a child from Mattoon public schools, with their homework over the years, and when it got to using calculators in gradeschool, don't worry about the right answer, estimate something close, for long periods of time, I began to seriously question their directions.
Its hard to help with homework and when they get that done, you need to learn this too, because the school evidently isn't focusing on it as much as I think they should. How many parents know what the kids are and aren't being taught. Looked to me like many of the chapters we skipped over and came back to if there was time, or only covered briefly, are getting more attention, than basic fundamental skills, that are crucial to a foundation for future learning and buiding them up to more complex skills.

We had math drills, especially multiplications tables, early in grade school. Timed tests, over and over repetition. Drilled it in to the point, even after a few decades, it usually clicks quite easily. I actually now kind of wish the more complex math up through trig and calculus was presented in at least some form, in this manner, and much earlier than high school or college. "

jason wrote on Apr 12, 2009 3:32 PM:

" While this letter was rambling, the comments of several, especially Mike P and Harry Potter, are disturbing - Branch Davidians? Socialized at school? You are both so extreme and uninformed about mainstream home schooling that you should probably try to read and truly learn about it before making comments of this nature.

First of all there are fewer kids that have been harmed by home school situations, like the Branch Davidians, than by public schools...absolutely no contest! Further, if you have been in a school recently, socialization is not an emphasis and , in fact, is discouraged in every way...even in Kindergarten. Everything is about teaching to the Test and No Child Left Behind.

If you think my home schooled kids aren't socialized enough, you can ask them about their friends while they are at the YMCA, Soccer practice, basketball practice, baseball practice, dance class, gymnastics, church functions, and outings with the many other home schoolers in the area. I will put the socialization skills of my home schooled kids against anyone...and they don't even have to hear all of the garbage spewed in the halls and classrooms of public schools!

By the way guys, before you start calling me a right wing wacko, you should know I am a moderate to liberal democrat who has taught in a public school and knows first hand why I don't want my kids in the system. "

medic57 wrote on Apr 12, 2009 4:50 PM:

" jason

Don't leave us in the dark, in your professional opinion, why are kids better off home schooled?

Also, I noticed you said that you HAD (Past Tense) taught in public schools. Want to enlighten us as to why you left? "

Harry Potter wrote on Apr 12, 2009 4:57 PM:

" If you think my home schooled kids aren't socialized enough, you can ask them about their friends while they are at the YMCA, Soccer practice, basketball practice, baseball practice, dance class, gymnastics, church functions, and outings with the many other home schoolers in the area. I will put the socialization skills of my home schooled kids against anyone...and they don't even have to hear all of the garbage spewed in the halls and classrooms of public schools!

It sounds like you're a good parent, Jason. And by allowing your kids to be that involved, you're probably raising healthy and well adjusted children.

But before you go throwing things out inferring I am ignorant about home schooling, let me correct you. I have been involved in the education field, in both the public and private school setting for a number of years, and know for fact that a lot of people who home school their kids are doing it simply to try to shield them from the world and don't allow their kids to "mix" with other kids.

I'm sorry that you found my comments disturbing, but let me assure you, I am speaking from a number of years experience.

As I stated in an earlier post, I've dealt with some of these kids who come into the public schools, and it seems to me that a disproportionate number, but certainly not all of them, have problems adjusting, especially when it come to fitting in.

It sounds like you're doing the right thing, but unfortunately not all home school parents practice that idea.

You expressed the idea that socialization is discouraged in the schools. What's that all about? Could you give an example of how the schools discourage socialization? "

shumphreys wrote on Apr 12, 2009 5:46 PM:

" Am I correct in saying that home schooled children don't get high school diplomas they have to take and pass the GED to get the equivalent. From what I have heard that isn't an easy test to pass. So the home schooled child that can pass that test should be on a par (raw knowledge wise) with a public or private school child that graduates from high school. So if there Science education has consisted only of Creationism they would not pass that part of the test and if their History education consisted only of history as reported in the Bible they also wouldn't pass that part of the test. If that is correct than the home schooled child that passes the GED is adequately prepared for their next step, knowledge wise. "

shumphreys wrote on Apr 12, 2009 5:51 PM:

" Which leaves the next issue and question, how do you prepare kids to deal with the "real" world? Can home schooled kids if they are limited to contact with only those of their "kind" be adequately prepared to deal with those that are not of their "kind"? What are those skills that kids will need to be productive, happy, well adjusted adults? To be honest I don't think public schools, churches or parents (even those that home school)are doing a great job of helping kids develop those skills. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Apr 12, 2009 6:45 PM:

" All need to remember there is a big difference in the way some Home School for sure. Also I believe that the last few years a Home Schooled child won the national spelling bee. "

just watching wrote on Apr 13, 2009 7:35 AM:

" Tim Mcvey didn't think to much of the Govt.invasion on the Davidian compound. "

Why Not wrote on Apr 13, 2009 7:51 AM:

" It is what you make of it...public or home schooled. A child can go to a crappy public school and still be a great, intelligent student if they try hard enough and have a good support system at home. A child can be home schooled and achieve the same results if the environment is structured properly. It seems most on here are looking at the extremes in both cases and just making everyone look stupid and immature. I have been in the public school system as an employee and see the good and bad. I also have relatives who have a large, home schooled family with aspiring children leading their college classes and traveling the world (socializing), on the flip the side I have a friend who home schools and they are NOT doing it right. Public schools will often allow a child to get out and lead the way, but they too will often be the cause for getting in the way of a child's progress. "

Nothingsfree wrote on Apr 13, 2009 8:20 AM:

" Winning Spellling Bees can be a great achievement. Unless you go on to live in your parents basement until you are 45. "

Tree Hugger wrote on Apr 13, 2009 10:27 AM:

" I would like to know why some parents without any education think that they can teach their children better than a professional? Sure, some home schooling parents are former teachers or are college educated, but I have heard of many that barely have a GED. Maybe you can handle basic elementary topics, but good luck teaching your children calculus, physics, & any laboratory science in your home. I guess that you probably don't believe in science so you probably ignore those subjects anyway.

And yes, many of the national spelling bee participants are home schooled children. Many of them can speak several languages & are learning at levels higher than their grade level. But guess what, the real world is about working with people - people very different from yourself. You can be a genius, but if you cannot communicate effectively & work effectively with other people, you will go no where.

I seem to remember an article from a while back about home school parents being angry that their children were not allowed to participate in school activities/sports. You can't have it both ways. If educators & other children are so evil and such bad influences that your children cannot learn with them, then they must also be too terrible to be coaches & teammates. "

Harry Potter wrote on Apr 13, 2009 11:13 AM:

" Education is sort of like politics, everyone has all the answers, even those who obviously have no clue about what their talking about. "

Jim1969 wrote on Apr 13, 2009 3:21 PM:

" " We have teachers who once they reach tenure and know their jobs are almost bullet proof stop really trying.

This is a total myth that's perpetuated by the anti education folks. Any administrator worth his or her salt knows how to get rid of teachers like that.

No it's not. I have family and friends who are teachers and in school administration here in IL and in a few other states and we have had conversations many times about the various issues within the school system and the tenure system is one of them. Remember that I did say almost bullet proof, meaning while it is possible it is very difficult for something short of a criminal offense. "

291953 wrote on Apr 13, 2009 7:36 PM:

" Interesting thread here. My wife and I home-schooled our two youngest daughters for their entire school experience. Why? There were several reasons.

First of all, the town we lived in had a horrible school system. Our older two daughters went through the schools there and we were not impressed with the effort put out by the school. When the youngest two came around, I vowed that they would not go to that school. We looked at private schools and then my wife heard about the home-school system. I gave her my permission to try it and it worked well for us. Both of the girls are in college now and are studying various languages.

Is home-schooling for everyone? Nope. There was a friend of my wife who decided to home-school her daughter after seeing how it was working with us. This woman had no business doing this and she failed. There are some people for whom the idea of home-schooling their children is a bad one.

On the other hand, kids would do no better in public school. One poster mentioned that a home-schooled 16 year old didn't know what 8X8 was. Let's take it a step further. I wonder how many public school kids would know
that?

In closing, I can vouch that home schooling can work. I can also give examples where it won't. It's the same with the public schools though. There is a place for it in the educational process. "

Mike P wrote on Apr 13, 2009 9:57 PM:

" It wasn't that long ago, charter schools would have been another local option for education, outside of the school district managed one. I forget what happened with that. "

jason wrote on Apr 14, 2009 9:05 PM:

" I've not been on for a few days so i have several things to respond to. I'm enjoying the recent posts and think there is some good info and questions being asked.

First, Medic57 said:

"Don't leave us in the dark, in your professional opinion, why are kids better off home schooled?

Also, I noticed you said that you HAD (Past Tense) taught in public schools. Want to enlighten us as to why you left? "

I do not believe all kids are better off home schooled however, if the parents are committed and able to make the sacrifices necessary to home school well, I think it can be better. Why? Because a typical classroom has about 20+ students while a home schooled child may be taught one on one or, if they have siblings, still in a small setting. All research points to smaller class sizes and individual attention being the best for students learning...home schooling provides both.

As for why I left the public school system I taught in, there were several reasons:
1. I felt I spent most of my time disciplining rather than teaching
2. Very little parental support at our school
3. I saw middle school kids, who couldnt read and could barely write, being passed through like it was no big deal.
4. The kids burdens they brought to school each day simply broke my heart on a daily basis...have you ever seen a 12 year old who had to have an abortion or another who was prostituting herself to get by while her parents were in and out of jail.
5. I had the opportunity to pursue another graduate degree

I wouldn't say I would never go back, but I would have to be in desperate need of a job. "

jason wrote on Apr 14, 2009 9:20 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote:
"As I stated in an earlier post, I've dealt with some of these kids who come into the public schools, and it seems to me that a disproportionate number, but certainly not all of them, have problems adjusting, especially when it come to fit in"

"You expressed the idea that socialization is discouraged in the schools. What's that all about? Could you give an example of how the schools discourage socialization? "

Harry....I don't think you are ignorant but you probably have a skewed perspective. The reason many home schooled kids may have trouble fitting in is because they may simply be different or have different ideals (just like some public school kids that never fit in). Personally, I don't want my kids to "fit in" with a lot of what I've seen in public schools, both as a student and a teacher. Home schooled kids may not fit in because they choose not to use certain language or participate in certain activities.

As to my comment about discouraging socialization, I was referring primarily to K-6. There is no talking in class, no talking in the bathroom, and often no talking at lunch. PE is a class and not for socializing, like recess allowed in the old days. So, unless by socialized we really mean institutionalized, I don't feel the school system offers quality socialization. Just my perspective. "

Mike P wrote on Apr 15, 2009 11:18 AM:

" The issue many have with home school, is the segment of folks, who do it just to conform their kids, and completely shelter them from the outside world. Home schooling just to keep kids from ever hearing about evolution, gay meaning something besides happy, or other topics, has been discussed in previous threads. Which is the direction I took this letter to be coming from.

Not everyone has the resources and time to home school, some recognize that, some ignore it. Some home schooling is done to limit information and exposures, not to provide a better focused educational opportunity.

Public schools you get pretty much get what you get for the 35 million a year it costs unit 2, to operate and teach however many students in their classrooms. District isn't very forthcoming with those figures. If I had to guess, 4500 at most. That would be around 7777.77 per student. If there is less, the cost per is higher, more its lower. I don't think they as a whole are very good at what they do, and haven't been for decades. There are some great teachers, and some students have done well. There are many slipping through the cracks, and they are looking to cut teachers to trim the budget. Its been a rather redundant cycle, for some time now.

Move, home school, or figure something else out, is probably more of a reality, for many parents, than it used to be. Its no wonder they were so against the charter schools. Competition, for providing mandated education, could impact how they run, fund and operate in many ways. "

Cognitus wrote on Apr 15, 2009 3:20 PM:

" "One can bet that their children are well-trained in the three Rs, reading, riting, and rithmetic."
Thank you Leonidas for reminding us what the 19th century was like. Hate to mention it but have you ever heard of
c-a-l-c-u-l-u-s??? or p-h-y-s-i-c-s???
======================================
" By todays trends they have large families, a truly good tendency."
I would say it depends on whether they can afford to well-suppport a large family. I'm not aware of any proof that "it's a truly good tendency"; often it's forgetting to buy contraceptives.
=====================================
"One can imagine that in their home learning center, they can display the Ten Commandments in a place of honor"
Naturally it would never occur to Leonidas to post the US Constitution.
It rather confuses a child to read "Thou shalt not kill" in a family that probably is conservative and probably supports the death penalty......
=====================================
I will admit that there are some families -- I know ONE -- where real teaching goes on. But public school teachers are required to meet certain educational standards; I believe that home-schooling parents should be required to meet the same standards.
I remember not so long ago at a rest stop I commented to a family that I was surprised that, as far as they were from home, their children were out of school at that time of year.
"Oh, they're home-schooled." Do you suppose the parents were qualified to teach American History, Geography, Geology, Sociology, etc. of the route they were traveling?? I didn't ask..... "

Harry Potter wrote on Apr 15, 2009 3:38 PM:

" Harry....I don't think you are ignorant but you probably have a skewed perspective.

Well, thank you for acknowledging that I'm not ignorant, Jason. That was quite generous of you. I'll keep my opinion of your perspective to myself.

My perspective comes from over 30 years in the education field. I'll put my understanding of the subject up against your's or anyone else's any day. You may not agree with me, but I think the word skewed might be a bit much.

Actually they are quite well thought out and come from many years in working in the field of education. You claim to have taught, so tell us, how many years did you you do that? As I said I have over 30 years, and still work part time, how does that compare with your involvement in the field of education? "

csjenks90 wrote on Apr 15, 2009 4:40 PM:

" It seems a lot of you like to bash home schoolers when you don't even know what goes on in a 'home school'...actually, those of you bashing it, seem to bash anything that isn't liberal and/or socialist...

I would suggest if you have a true interest in finding out about home-schooling, find a group in the 'toon area, I'm sure there is one or more, and ask some ?'s of the parents AND kids.

See what kind of answers you get especially from the kids...You will more than likely be pleasently surprised in their 'social skills' even with the bubble around them.

If my family still lived in the area, I would welcome you to speak to any of my six children...yes, we have a big carbon foot print, sorry Albert and the tree huggers.

If you don't want to be 'educated' on the subject...to expand your evolving minds, then maybe you should just speak about what you know and leave our free choice to home school alone...

I'm sure President Obama would love to hear from some union teachers (huge supporters of his) criticizing him on why he enrolled his children in a private school as opposed to public...You know, with public school being so great and all... "

jason wrote on Apr 15, 2009 7:47 PM:

" Harry...by "skewed" I am referring to your 30 years in the field. The people I encounter that have the poorest opinion of home school are career educators, like yourself. The same doctrines have been pumped into your head and eyes for so long that to think something else might work or maybe even be better, is something lifelong educators just struggle with... typically.

As for my years in the field of education, I have served as a university instructor, a public school teacher, an assistant professor, an academic program director, and an administrator since 1994. Is that enough time in the field of education for me to know anything? "

jason wrote on Apr 15, 2009 10:09 PM:

" Cognitus....One of the benefits of home schooling is that you are not bound by the public school schedule or calendar. For example, our family often take vacation in the spring or fall when prices are lower and temperatures are more pleasant. We also don't stop having school just because it is summer. I would also say that almost ANY parent, in the age of the internet, can be qualified to teach any of the subjects you mentioned by spending 20-30 minutes on the internet researching their vacation route. It's really not that hard and you certainly don't need a teachers certificate to do it! "

csjenks90 wrote on Apr 15, 2009 10:18 PM:

" That's why career 'educators' are/were so oppesed to vouchers and giving parents a choice with their tax money...that and their hatred for Bush and all us facists who want a say in our tax patments... "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Apr 15, 2009 10:28 PM:

" Hey Harry what did you do in your 30 years in the education field?? I seen you say that before I just must have missed what it was you did. "

jason wrote on Apr 15, 2009 11:12 PM:

" shumphreys... Home schoolers are NOT required to take the GED as they are not drop outs! Home schools are recognized as "private schools" in Illinois. In my case, our private school has 2 students.

You also kept referring to the "real" world in one of your posts. What is your "real world" may not be everyones. Not everyone chooses to be part of the same segments of society. Personally, I hope my kids "real world" is not yours. "

jrhendren wrote on Apr 15, 2009 11:17 PM:

" The Question wrote on Apr 9, 2009 6:51 AM:
" Yes, if you want to subject your child to religious-nut fascist lunacy, a home school is just the place to do it. "

I sure your not saying everyone who is religious is a "religious-nut fascist lunacy" are you. I happen to proudly call myself a Christian, but do not necessarily agree with home schooling. Mainly for the reason brought up here. Children need the interaction with other children, the social skills needed in society, and the friendships that come about. I can see how some would be scared of the public school systems, but lets get real. Look at how many schools there are and how many truly have problems. Parents should always have the right to home school if they like, and many that have been home schooled make it big in the world. Just because someone home schools does not mean they are part of some zealous cult, but have their own fears and reasons. One must look at the factors of where one lives, the schools themselves, the teachers, along with other criteria to decide what is right for them. I happen to believe here in Mattoon we have some very good teachers, for the most part. We also have some teachers that need to go, but your going to have that anywhere. My children go to the public schools and a quite happy and are learning a lot.
Really and truly every child should be home schooled. That being that every parent should be teaching their children all the time about life, right and wrong, and skills needed to be a upstanding member of society. Maybe if parents took more initiative are jails would not be so full. Just a thought. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Apr 16, 2009 7:09 AM:

" "I have over 30 years, and still work part time, how does that compare with your involvement in the field of education?"
-----------------

And now the profile is complete....

It's time to play... "

Harry Potter wrote on Apr 16, 2009 7:49 AM:

" Jason...I will agree that home schooling, if done right, is an acceptable alternative form of education. I'm also sure that it's being done very well in some cases. I was merely expressing my concern for those situations where it is not being done effectively. As I stated before, I have watched a lot of kids come back into the public schools after being home schooled, who seem to struggle. I don't know about those who complete their education at home, because I haven't had much contact with them. I'm not sure of the number of kids being home schooled, although I'm sure the could be obtained from the ROE.

Again my comments are not an indictment of the home school idea, but are merely a concern for at least one of the issues involved.

Your "skewed" comment seems to indicate that you think I am somewhat brainwashed by the established system. I have to respectfully disagree with that, as I have spent a career bucking the entrenched establishment. In fact my biggest complaint about public education is that it's about the traditional system these days, and not about the kids. Too many folks in the public system put the kids second.

I'm happy to see that we agree on the fact that parents need to be involved with their children's education. I see that as a major issue.

We're probably not that far off in our overall view of what's needed to educate a child. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Apr 16, 2009 9:02 AM:

" Oh boy I see it coming at you now JR. "

shumphreys wrote on Apr 16, 2009 9:09 AM:

" I hate to tell you this Jason but it is. You can't live in fantasy land forever, sooner or later, reality will hit you in the face, like two men holding hands in the mall, or the nightly news, or our local paper or the collapse of Capitalism (excuse me our financial system)..... Might as well face reality, prepare for it and teach your children how to deal with it responsibly. "

shumphreys wrote on Apr 16, 2009 9:13 AM:

" Jason do your children want to get into college or some other further educational program? Will your "homeschool diploma" suffice or will they need to pass the GED. The GED isn't just for high school dropouts. Immigrants from countries without our educational equivalent have taken it. "

musician wrote on Apr 16, 2009 11:43 AM:

" If you choose to compare home school families to the Koresh mess, then lets please compare all public schools to Columbine shall we? I know that is not to be the case, but it seems that many on here like to grab the craziest cases and then simply apply them across the board. That is foolish. Is that what they taught you in public school? I am a product of Public school and I learned to see everyone as individuals, different, and special. Kids are not all the same and some excel better in the home school environment.

You are saying the best way to socialize a child is to send them to Public Schools. Most public schools have too small of a student to teacher ratio and expect them to get all the attention they should. At the same time dealing with some kids who's parents don't even give them the time they need at home.

Its always amazing how people get all high and mighty on here telling people how they are wrong in living their life the way they see best. I am not trying to tell anyone that Home School is the only way to go, but lighten up a bit and believe that very few home schooling families take this lightly. Its not an easy job. We still pay taxes, and pay for our own home school curriculum, which can be expensive.

All this being said, there are some great teachers in the public school system locally. For me and at least one of my kids so far, the Home School way is best for her. She respects authority at least as much as any child I know her age, and she also respects her peers.

Well rounded kids, and productive, respectable members of society is what many parents want out of their kids. There is no one way to get that. Its a tough enough job in this world to raise kids respectable and honest. How does it harm you if someone chooses to give their own child a chance at a better education? Is it about you or them? "

291953 wrote on Apr 16, 2009 3:07 PM:

" SHumpreys; I hate to pop your balloon(it seems like it's 3/4 deflated now) but like I mentioned earlier my wife and I home-schooled our two youngest daughters all the way through grade 12. They both are now in college and are doing well; this next term they are taking a total of 5 different foreign language classes between them. They didn't need the GED or special permission.

Like I mentioned earlier, home-schooling isn't for everybody. I mentioned the woman my wife knew that was a complete failure. On the other hand, there are public school teachers that fall into that catagory without too much effort. We just don't hear about them too much. "

Rotty wrote on Apr 16, 2009 6:44 PM:

" [awaits dingbat shumphreys to ask jason if he eats lobster or shrimp]

Cuckoo Cuckoo Cuckoo

ROTFLMAO! "

shumphreys wrote on Apr 17, 2009 8:27 AM:

" Notice 291953 I asked an honest question, "Am I correct in saying that home schooled children don't get diplomas they have to take and pass the GED." An honest question deserves an honest answer not a smart __ss answer like Jasons or your slightly snide remark. An honest answer would have been not necessarily, some students choose to take the test others don't. Civil questions should receive civil answers or at least they would from civil people. "

Cognitus wrote on Apr 17, 2009 11:24 AM:

" I'm sure President Obama would love to hear from some union teachers (huge supporters of his) criticizing him on why he enrolled his children in a private school as opposed to public...You know, with public school being so great and all...

Public schools made this nation great.
Would YOUR parents have had the ability and time to give you a fine education??

I don't criticize private schools. My son can afford it so he sends his 3 children to one of the finest private schools in the DC area -- at $45,000 a year. My grandson, who is a very capable student, as a freshman is taking Honor mathematics, Honor physics, Honor Spanish and next year will add Honor History. Their teacher/student ratio is 6/1 and they offer a curriculum no public school could afford, because even though they live in a prosperous neighborhood the citizens are unwilling to provide the high level of education in the public system that my grandson is getting.
No criticism of the public school teachers; there simply are not enough of them to provide the attention to really bright kids.

I have another grandson who is a freshman in a western state. He tests extremely high, but the school does not have the resources to push him..... "

291953 wrote on Apr 17, 2009 11:55 AM:

" Shumphreys; I went back and re-read your postings with an more open mind(I can do that sometimes) and I owe you an apology.

As to your question; one does not need to take a GED after going through home-schooling. In Illinois homeschooling is considered a private school. My wife served as our teacher and I was the "principal".

We were subject to the laws of the state of Illinois to an extent but also had a measure of freedom. We could have school at anytime(Saturdays, Sundays, summer months, etc.) I was an OTR driver at the time so taking my girls on a trip(they did school work then also). wasn't bound to waiting until a weekend or vacation time.

It's not for everyone, but it worked for us. "

shumphreys wrote on Apr 18, 2009 8:23 AM:

" Your apology is accepted 291953. Now how about imparting a bit more information. One of the problems of the US educational system has been a lack of standards which the "NO child left behind" law attempted to address. BUT it still left each state to set the standards for that state (and the standards still vary from state to state)and individual school districts are left to carry out the tests and enforce the standards and prevent cheating. SO what are the standards for home schooled children? Do they have to pass the same tests as public school children? Who administers the tests? There are two issues, are home schooled children getting (at minimum) the same education (or better) than public school children and are they learning the socialization skills they will need to work/live/compete in a very diverse world? "