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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Lee Enterprises

Tuesday, March 24, 2009 9:07 PM CDT
LETTER: Moon, stars evidence of God's existence

LETHA SNOW, Mattoon

I see by a recent newspaper article (March 9) that the Christian population of our nation is dwindling as 15 percent of people do not believe in God.

While it is true that we have freedom of choice, I find it surprising that so many would choose not to believe in the God who created the Heaven and the Earth as the Bible says. This is stated in the very first sentence.

I would challenge them to walk outside on a clear night and look up to the moon and stars and to realize that most of those stars are many light-years away (a light year is the distance light travels in a year at a speed of 186,282 miles per second.)

Surely they would need to know that only an all-powerful God could accomplish this.

Perhaps they just have not been listening nor looking up.

LETHA SNOW

Mattoon

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Cognitus wrote on Mar 25, 2009 12:07 AM:

" I thought it was the Big Bang!!!
Since he created it all, it's too bad
that the human race is allowing so many
of his creations to become extinct.
Almost enough to make one into an environmentalist and a liberal..... "

medic57 wrote on Mar 25, 2009 1:12 AM:

" Nice post, however, good luck with that one Letha. :)

And I always thought that Genesis 1.1 was about baseball.

In the big inning.

Letha

Try this, find a verrrry dark place out in the country, no lights within miles, so dark you can't see your hand in fron of your face, and no moon, keep staring until The Milky Way comes into focus, THEN, come back and rewrite that post. :)

The closest star is Alpha Centauri, apprimately 25,633,091,520,000.00 (24 Trillion miles) (and that's our CLOSEST neighbor) At out current technology, it would take 512,661,830.4 years to get there. I guess we are really babies when it comes to interstellar travel, aren't we? Voyager 1 was launched in 1977, and has yet to leave OUR Solar System.

I love science and technology and both goes very well with God. "

The Question wrote on Mar 25, 2009 7:14 AM:

" I would challenge them to walk outside on a clear night and look up to the moon and stars. Surely they would need to know that only the all-powerful Lizard God Goanna could accomplish this.
It says so right there in some primitive book of myths, so it must be true. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 25, 2009 8:23 AM:

" Ms Snow says Surely they would need to know that only an all-powerful God could accomplish this. No, those that understand Science dont need an imaginary figure, God to explain the wonders of the world. There is no doubt the world is a wonderful
creation the question is how did it come into existence. Was it created by an all powerful God as Ms. Snow believes? Or could it have been created by a space probe from some distant galaxy or our own future as we saw in an old Star Trek movie, the Genesis project. Or by that happy accident in that primordial cosmic soup. Or did a creator God blow himself up in the very act of creation, and it is his protoplasm that seeded the earth. God was, but is no more, other than what lives on in each plant, animal and human, each growing, breathing, living thing. In my opinion it doesnt matter what you believe, all that matters is how you treat what you see. Do you respect the planet, use her resources wisely, do you respect her people? Or do you exploit and trash the planet and denigrate, exploit and persecute her people, especially those that dont believe what you believe? "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 25, 2009 8:40 AM:

" Nice letter L Snow. Only trouble is that is in no way any proof of any kind. Yes the moon and stars are amazing. The wonders about them are mesmerizing. But again they are still no proof of anything. You see I am a I am not sure kind of believer. The bible was wrote by man. Changed around to let in what was wanted by Priests (edited). So that in its self is enough of a doubt for many people. I have learned that if a man and or woman is involved then its not always correct. Anyway nice letter and happy star gazing to you :-). "

jrussell wrote on Mar 25, 2009 9:24 AM:

" Hey I agree Letha Snow, trees and all, I however don't believe he meant for the Bible to be taken literally and I believe that people can be good religious folk just as easily without it "

just watching wrote on Mar 25, 2009 9:49 AM:

" While your walking around at night lookin up to the sky "Watch out for that tree" "

father bob wrote on Mar 25, 2009 9:51 AM:

" ms. snow, my money's betting on more than 15% of the population don't believe in god.

i do understand your belief in an almighty omnipotent being however. i'm sure you've had god and the bible pounded into you since you were old enough to clasp your hands in prayer. some of us have never had, nor believe in such programming.

i know you write your letters from your heart, but there are those of us who don't necessarily wish to agree with your views nor believe in your god.....and please save your prayers for someone who might sense some benefit from them. "

medic57 wrote on Mar 25, 2009 10:07 AM:

" Rohn

True, The Bible was written by men. Men who were inspired by God. It was written over just a few hundred years )The New Testament) and in all the time since, nothing has been deleted, changed or added to. It just is. It's funny, scientists know exactly where Noah's Ark is, but can you imagine what the scientific world's hysteria would be like if they proved it. Not to mention Susan's. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 25, 2009 11:50 AM:

" Honestly Medic the flood is a world wide myth, found in many cultures across all continents. AND the remains of boats have been found in the most extraordinary places. You should say Biblical Historians think they know where the Ark should be found. If a boat is ever found in that spot I think you will be the one gnashing your teeth, not me. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 25, 2009 12:02 PM:

" Oh and Medic you should learn a bit about Biblical history, the Muratorian Canon was written sometime after 154 CE and lists 22 of the 27 books that became the New Testament. The author also accepts the Wisdom of Solomon and the Apocalypse of Peter. The Shepherd of Hermes is accepted for reading but not as scripture. Then there is the Canon of Origen, the Canon of Eusebius, the Canon of Athanasius of Alexander and the Canon of the Third Synod of Carthage. A Synod in Hippo ratified the cannon proposed by Athanasius in 393 CE. It was never voted on by a majority of the religious leaders of the time. I guess there was just never a majority agreement as to what was and wasn't scripture. "

Becky wrote on Mar 25, 2009 12:10 PM:

" Medic says: It's funny, scientists know exactly where Noah's Ark is"

The Epic of Gilgamesh

The Epic of Gilgamesh is, perhaps, the oldest written story on Earth. It comes to us from Ancient Sumeria, and was originally written on 12 clay tablets in cunieform script. It is about the adventures of the historical King of Uruk (somewhere between 2750 and 2500 BCE).

and the story goes: (tablet XI)

The hearts of the Great Gods moved them to inflict the Flood.
Their Father Anu uttered the oath (of secrecy),
Valiant Enlil was their Adviser,
Ninurta was their Chamberlain,
Ennugi was their Minister of Canals.
Ea, the Clever Prince(?), was under oath with them
so he repeated their talk to the reed house:
'Reed house, reed house! Wall, wall!
O man of Shuruppak, son of Ubartutu:
Tear down the house and build a boat!
Abandon wealth and seek living beings!
Spurn possessions and keep alive living beings!
Make all living beings go up into the boat.
The boat which you are to build,
its dimensions must measure equal to each other:
its length must correspond to its width.
Roof it over like the Apsu.
I understood and spoke to my lord, Ea:
'My lord, thus is the command which you have uttered
I will heed and will do it.

Are you sure it's not Gilgamesh's boat? Oh and exactly where do these scientists "know" the boat is? "

father bob wrote on Mar 25, 2009 12:35 PM:

" medic57 wrote on Mar 25, 2009 10:07 AM:
" Men who were inspired by God."""

or maybe opiates. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 25, 2009 1:35 PM:

" Medic I think you are wrong about. I believe it was edited. I watched a program on the History Channel. It went all through this subject, they found lots of proof showing it. They explained the priests left out most all of the unnatural, supernatural things that Jesus did. They felt that if they added these people would never believe this book. They also found that Eve was not Adam's first wife. They found her name, she is mentioned I believe they said only 1 time in the Bible. They have studied many of the original writings.
But there again it might have been a hoax. I just don't think it was, There were many Bible Scholars taking part in this study.
As for the Noah's Ark I doubt they know where it is, even if there is one. At one time people claimed to find it way up on a mountain many years ago.
But back to the facts. Fact Man wrote the Bible. That is one fact we know for sure. Fact you can take two different Bibles and they will NOT read the same. They will be wrote with entirely different sentences. That is another Fact we know for sure. Fact you can leave or add a single word to a sentence and it will mean something totally different. "

Equalizer wrote on Mar 25, 2009 1:37 PM:

" Surely they would need to know that only an all-powerful God could accomplish this.

Perhaps they just have not been listening nor looking up.

EXCELLENT Letha Snow! God bless you!

Sad but true, most people are to busy trying to climb the ladder to success, whatever they think success may be, and miss God in their everyday lives. "

HerChild wrote on Mar 25, 2009 2:03 PM:

" Thank you Letha!
We agree with you and enjoy your letters.
Each little miracle is truly remarkable, and we're sad that most people just take for granted all the little things God shows Himself through. "

father bob wrote on Mar 25, 2009 2:08 PM:

" LMAO!....geeeezzzzzzz the "christians can't even agree among themselves.

no wonder fewer people give an iota about religion. "

Collatine wrote on Mar 25, 2009 4:36 PM:

" Rohn Gordan - Egad! 3000 years of Biblical scholarship overturned by one History Channel special! LOL If you paid attention to who made that History Channel special, and then did some Googling, you'll see their agenda was to assert that Space Aliens were the founders humanity, sort of like in Battlestar Galactica's finale (which was awesome, incidentally) or perhaps Stargate SG-1. All the references to angels and the supernatural in the Bible are actually aliens and technology, according to the producers of that documentary. And they'll be coming back with the mothership!!
*
What's amazing about the history books, poetry, prophecy, and letters that make up the Bible is that they were written over a period of at least 2000 years - 2000 BCE to about 100 CE - by dozens of different authors and editors who did not know each other and often were not contemporaries, and they all tell a cogent story that harmonizes from Genesis to Revelations. No wonder when it claims to be authored by men inspired by the Holy Spirit, people believe it.
*
It's further amazing that as we discover ancient records of early scripture, they match almost exactly with the scriptures used to translate into modern languages today. Those scribes and monks who spent countless years copying and recopying over the the scriptures over the millenia were pretty meticulous. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 25, 2009 6:25 PM:

" Collatine explain why two different Bibles can say two different things?? With two totally different sentences??
Man wrote it so leaves alot to question.
I also heard nothing about a alien, nor do I watch those whacked out space shows either.
---------
http://www.rickrichards.com/Bible_Frame.htm
--------
http://www.tertullian.org/rpearse/nicaea.html
----- some interesting stuff.
Now I am no Bible believer or total disbeliever. I am in the I just don't know area. I have not posted this to ridicule anyone or anything. If this has upset someone I am sorry. Just telling what I seen on TV, and just looked up on the net. To see if there was any mention of it else where. "

medic57 wrote on Mar 25, 2009 7:34 PM:

" And you got all of this from the History Channel, Right? Let's see, The History Channel was launched on Jan. 1st, 1995. That makes them experts. "

CrowWoman wrote on Mar 25, 2009 9:44 PM:

" Rohn Gordon, I think the points you make should be addressed, and Collatine probably will. Different translations of the Bible (Catholic or Protestant) vary in their wording, sometimes a great deal, but the gist of what they say is basically the same. They all use the same source documents. "

medic57 wrote on Mar 25, 2009 10:00 PM:

" Are you sure it's not Gilgamesh's boat? Oh and exactly where do these scientists "know" the boat is? "

About 3 quarters of the way up Mt. Ararat on the Turkish - Russian boarder. (just where the bible says) of course Turkey still won't give permission for any expiditions. Imagine finding Noah's Ark in a Muslim country? Wouldn't go over to well, would it? "

medic57 wrote on Mar 25, 2009 10:11 PM:

" was written sometime after 154 CE

B.C. = Before Christ

A.D. = Anno Domini (In the year of our Lord)

CE = ????? "

pj1983 wrote on Mar 26, 2009 7:49 AM:

" CE is the secular alternative to AD. Because we wouldn't want to offend the agnostics and athiests :) "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 26, 2009 8:12 AM:

" LMAO @ Medic and the History Channel was started in 1995 means what again?? It was ON that channel. I do NOT know if or not about the Bible being edited, I only know what THAT program talked about is all. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 26, 2009 8:31 AM:

" Crow Woman you're right. Just because they come from same documents means nothing at all it only proves what I said. If they are not worded the same with all of the same in them, they have been EDITED (changed).
I try to stay away from this kind of discussion, because I do NOT know much at all about the Bible. I only stated what I seen on a program, in case someone else may have known something about what it was saying. I was curious to see and try and learn.
Medic they have been saying that for over 30 years, about it on Ararat.
From >http://www.noahsarksearch.com/ararat.htm
Given the extensive research which has taken place on Mount Ararat, it seems fair to say that if Noah's Ark ever survived into modern times and is somewhere on Ararat, there are few new places remaining on the mountain to search unless it is buried under the ice cap or lava. There have been many expeditions, accounts, alleged sightings, anomalies, and claims of discovery involving Mount Ararat. What is lacking is any scientific evidence or photo that shows that Noah's Ark survived until today. However, one should also consider the possibility that Noah's Ark landed on Mount Ararat and was subsequently destroyed, which is the possibility alluded to in the article Even If Noahs Ark Is Not Proven, Noahs Ark Still Could Have Landed On Mount Ararat.
-----------
This reads as IF they do not know where it is. And it also looks like not being able to search for it is out the window also. But nice try anyway. This was just the 1st sight I looked at. "

The Question wrote on Mar 26, 2009 8:33 AM:

" Americas ruling ideology isnt capitalism or socialism or commercialism or secularism or sectarianism or fascism. It is stupidism.
Other countries in the world are not wedded to the loud, aggressive pursuit of ignorance, and that it why Americas days of greatness will remain firmly behind it "

Collatine wrote on Mar 26, 2009 8:50 AM:

" C.E. - Common Era - sort of became popular in an effort to distance the calendar from the birth Christianity.

Yes, most translations use the same source documents.

Most languages including English are considered "living", meaning they definitions of words continually evolve with usage. The texts that make up the Bible were written in mostly Ancient Hebrew, Aramaic, and Greek, which themselves changed with time. Some modern translations are based on a Latin translation of those ancient languages.

Modern English translations differ for lots of reasons. English in 1611 is much different than English in 1892 which is different than English today, or did thou not knowest that?

Also, committees of scholars who translate ancient texts into modern languages have different practices and different goals, usually explained in the preface to that particular version: some want to translate the text literally, which can be somewhat tortured to understand in today's English (NIV for instance), sounding a little like Yoda speaking. Others want to translate it, and then paraphrase it to make it easiest to understand, while sacrificing some literal meaning ("The Living Bible" or "The Message"). I personally enjoy the "God's Word" translation because the committee included English literature professors, in an attempt to be both literal, but also reflect the beauty of the original text (much like the King James Version did 4 centuries ago). It also lays out the modern text like how it was meant to be read, with regular paragraphs for prose, and in verse form for poetry... To me, reading other translations can be somewhat difficult because they lay out the text like a newspaper or worse, verse-by-verse.
*
Medic: the text says the ark rested on the mountains (plural) of Ararat, so somewhere in a large region, not necessarily what we call Ararat today. Also, it seems likely to me the Ark might have been deconstructed by those on it to reuse lumber and other resources as civilization was reborn.

And I suspect most Muslims wouldn't mind the ark being found, since they accept some of the Old Testament canon. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 26, 2009 9:20 AM:

" Yes Medic CE is current era. BC and AD are so old school. You need to enter the new century. Mr. Gordon the Bible is a wonderful mix of fact and fantasy, myth and metaphor, poetry and prose. There are many contradictions. Starting with Genesis 1 and Genesis 2. Then my favorite that problematical Matthew 25. It was written by men, for specific groups, with a specific purpose in mind. It was never intended to be read literally. It is still well worth reading even if it isn't the Truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth. It is full of great wisdom for those who read it seriously and thoughtfully. "

father bob wrote on Mar 26, 2009 9:59 AM:

" pj1983 wrote on Mar 26, 2009 7:49 AM:
" CE is the secular alternative to AD. Because we wouldn't want to offend the agnostics and athiests :) """"

believe me....we don't give a crap about that useless information. why do you religious types think we do? "

Collatine wrote on Mar 26, 2009 10:38 AM:

" Susan, as has been demonstrated numerous times elsewhere, Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 do not contradict. They are an account of the same event from two different perspectives, as the text even claims. Genesis 1 is from God's perspective, Genesis 2 from Adam's. Often, people will take old English translations and say, "oh! oh! But Genesis 2:19 says animals were made after man, and Genesis 1 says animals were made before man! Contradiction!" Centuries ago, English didn't have the "pluperfect" tense for verbs which is reflected in the source material, and modern translations correct this by rendering Genesis 2:19 as "The Lord God had formed animals..."

It's likely Genesis 1 and Genesis 2/3 were separate documents passed down until Moses combined them, along with several other records to form what we know as Genesis.
*
Again, the fact that the Bible was composed by dozens of authors with different writing styles in different languages and different cultures over many centuries, and yet STILL harmonize so well with each other theologically (and with history, archeology, philology, geography, etc) leads many to believe that the whole is, as it claims, inspired by God. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 26, 2009 12:28 PM:

" Ok Coll that mostly explains the what I refer to as editing. Thank You. I also never thought or head about the possible use of the wood from the Ark, Great thinking. Thank You again :-). "

Becky wrote on Mar 26, 2009 1:02 PM:

" "About 3 quarters of the way up Mt. Ararat on the Turkish - Russian boarder. (just where the bible says) of course Turkey"

Are you sure? Because I've got stories of "proof" that it's in Iran. And again, more "proof" it's really in Africa. So, which "proof" are we to believe? Oh and the Epic of Gilgamesh was written 2500 years or so BC. The bible was written what, 400 to 700 years AFTER christ died? So, using your analogy and the bible was written nearly 3000 years AFTER the sumarian texts, using almost word for word the original story, which one is "proof" of Noah and/or Gilgamesh's hero?

Oh, and Turkey has let them test some items, all are explained away between the "miraculous" metals (volcanic rock), "petrified wood" none old enough to be from 6000 years ago and could easily have been trasfered to mountain side by the frequent mud slides from melting snow and ice. And so on and so forth. There is no PROOF of Noah's ark. Just picts of mountain side that goes through many changes due to ice, snow, mud, volcano. "

medic57 wrote on Mar 26, 2009 1:07 PM:

" After perusing the internet I found this.

B.C. = Before Christ

A.D. = Anno Domini ie... (The Year of Our Lord)

CE = Common Era, Christian Era, Vulgar Era.

I guess no one can decide which of those 3 to use. I know of NO local schools, colleges or Universities that use BCE/CE to check time with and I would guess, that, as I did not know of CE, (forgive me for my ignorance) 99% of the worlds population also do not. Without being told anyway. "

hammbone wrote on Mar 26, 2009 1:26 PM:

" The bible was wrote by man. Meaning that is a STORY. For the weak minded that need something to believe in.When I watched my Grandfather die a very painful death.This man lived by the bible,preached it,practiced it and lived it.He did all he was suppose to have done inhis life surounded by the teaching of the bible,Yt he died a very painful and aggonizing slow death.What god (If Any) lets his true believers die is such a way? Surely not any that I want anything to do with. He Had faith,tons of faith,and where did it get him. it's just a weak story for those that need a crutch to lean on. "

CrowWoman wrote on Mar 26, 2009 2:17 PM:

" Hammbone, I can't think of much worse than a loved one having to die after weeks of suffering. Yet, it sounds as if your grandfather believed he would have comfort and peace after he passed on.

People die hideous deaths no matter what they believe. A prolonged and agonizing death is hard even when the dying person believes that life and death mean something, and that joy in heaven is waiting beyond the earthly suffering. I think it would be even harder to suffer and die thinking that life was meaningless, and that nothing or no one existed beyond it. "

Collatine wrote on Mar 26, 2009 2:48 PM:

" Hammbone - to echo CrowWoman, I'm sorry that happened. The Bible offers, among other things, a historical account of why the world is so messed up. It explains why bad things happen to good people and why good things happen to bad people - the injustice all goes back to Genesis. These things happen not because God doesn't care. (American Christians too often fall back on the "God will make sure bad things don't happen to you if only you believe", when that just isn't in the Bible anywhere).
*
What is in the Bible is God's plan for redemption, which gives us hope that no matter how awful life and death in a sin-cursed world is, people like your grandfather (and mine) will live with their heavenly Father in peace and joy forever and that there will be a new earth with no sin and no suffering.
*
Rohn- thanks!! I'm glad you accepted my thoughts in the spirit they were given! So often people attack or get defensive so quickly here! "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 26, 2009 3:36 PM:

" Medic if it was Vulgar Era it would be VE don't you think? CE and BCE are in common usage around the world, in academic circles and especially in non-Christian countries, which there happen to be quite a few. I think the terms are more appropriate, suitable for ALL, don't you? "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 26, 2009 3:38 PM:

" Sorry Collatine either God got the sequence right from his perspective or Adam got the sequence right from his perspective. Which was it? Light from Dark, Heavens, Earth, plants, animals and man. Or man then plants and animals. That isn't too different perspectives, that is too different creation myths. Both are lovely, but myths none the less. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 26, 2009 3:45 PM:

" I liked your explanation about the difficulties and confusions with translations Collatine. Even today we wonder "why can't the English teach the Englishman to speak, this verbal class distinction by now should be antique". "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 26, 2009 3:53 PM:

" Hambone all religions serve several purposes. One of which is to help people understand the past so they can deal with the present and make the most out of their future. Some do use religion as a crutch, afraid to face the world on their own. Some don't need that crutch and face the world as it is. Problems arise for the first group when realities of the world as it is knock the crutch out from under them. For those like me that prefer to face reality head on, life is not meaningless as Crow Woman thinks and since there is no fear of death, it is a natural part of life, there is no need for eternal life in some fantasy heaven. Our purpose is to develop our being to become the best possible person that we can be. In order to do that we must learn and never stop learning about Science, History, Psychology, Sociology, and Religion. "

jackinthebox wrote on Mar 26, 2009 3:55 PM:

" I seen God just yesterday.I turn on TV and their was God standing tall and looking good with some of his disciples beside him. He was making trillions of dollars appear from everywhere and the people were in awe and bowed before him. "

CHILL! wrote on Mar 26, 2009 4:03 PM:

" I agree with Equalizer and HerChild, yet am very surprised at them holding this view! "

medic57 wrote on Mar 26, 2009 4:19 PM:

" Medic if it was Vulgar Era it would be VE don't you think?

The term "Common Era" is traced back in English to its appearance as "Vulgar Era" (from the Latin word vulgus, the common people,

C.E. - Common Era - sort of became popular in an effort to distance the calendar from the birth Christianity.

Did it?

The year numbering system for the Common Era was devised by the monk Dionysius Exiguus in the year 525 to replace the Diocletian years, because he did not wish to continue the memory of a tyrant who persecuted Christians.[ "

Collatine wrote on Mar 26, 2009 5:10 PM:

" Medic - that's very interesting! I wondered if you were doing a play off Latin... "

pj1983 wrote on Mar 26, 2009 6:32 PM:

" father bob said:

pj1983 wrote on Mar 26, 2009 7:49 AM:
" CE is the secular alternative to AD. Because we wouldn't want to offend the agnostics and athiests :) """"

believe me....we don't give a crap about that useless information. why do you religious types think we do? "

all i have to say is HUH!?! by the "you religious types" comment, i'm assuming you're attempting to inply that i'm a "religious type"...which couldn't be further from the truth. that was SARCASM (note the smiley face at the end of my statement) i was merely supplying an answer to the CE=? question posed in the post before mine. "

what? wrote on Mar 26, 2009 10:09 PM:

" God bless and be with you Ms. Snow, just don't sic Him on me please. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 27, 2009 8:41 AM:

" Indeed Medic and what did AD stand for, After Death or ? perhaps the Latin? Ano Domini (sp). Indeed if they meant Vulgar it would have been VE but that was never the intention/meaning and why CE was selected. "

father bob wrote on Mar 27, 2009 9:30 AM:

" pj1983 wrote on Mar 26, 2009 6:32 PM:
"that was SARCASM (note the smiley face at the end of my statement) """"

sorry....i didn't notice the neon flashing smiley face. my mistake. "

Cognitus wrote on Mar 27, 2009 11:45 AM:

" Back to the original subject of the night sky, I append a paragraph I received just last week from a friend, who is Superintendent of Natural Bridges National Monumment in Utah,
last week:
"With your interest in archeoastronomy, you'd also be interested to know
that Natural Bridges holds the honor of being named the first
"International Dark Night Sky Park." Quite an honor for a small park
tucked away in southeastern Utah. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 27, 2009 1:00 PM:

" Unfortunately Cognitus, it may be the only place left in the US. "

CrowWoman wrote on Mar 27, 2009 1:41 PM:

" Honest, Susan, when I was in grade school I thought A.D. meant "after death." I can't remember when I figured out what it really meant....

I agree with your comment that "Our purpose is to develop our being to become the best possible person that we can be" and that life can have meaning--to us and to those we love and/or influence--whether or not we believe in a life to come.

Still, beyond the meaning we create for ourselves (and for those whom we love or possibly those who come after us), I see little purpose. Especially when it comes to suffering; I believe it would be hard for most who suffer and die to make sense of it outside of believing in a God or eternal life of some sort. Most people don't fear dying as such, rather the suffering too often involved with it.

I believe that God and eternal life are reality for several reasons, most of them based on my own experiences in life. I admit, I do find it comforting to believe that my grandmother is still around in some sense--yet, I would find it harder to believe that if I hadn't encountered her (spiritually, not physically!) once or twice some years ago. I don't believe my beliefs are a crutch, though if I were dying in extreme pain from cancer or what not, I would most likely love to have a crutch of some sort--beyond even the morphine and such they give you to control pain.

Isn't it amazing the things that end up being discussed on these threads! "

HisChild wrote on Mar 27, 2009 2:00 PM:

" what? wrote on Mar 26, 2009 10:09 PM:
" God bless and be with you Ms. Snow, just don't sic Him on me please. "

:-) I already did that just in case she didn't, *LOL!*

God Bless You Letha, and thank you!
God bless everyone with a truly enlightening weekend full of His Blessings, Amen! "

father bob wrote on Mar 27, 2009 2:20 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Mar 27, 2009 1:00 PM:
" Unfortunately Cognitus, it may be the only place left in the US. """"

visit new mexico "

cd wrote on Mar 27, 2009 8:54 PM:

" Do you respect the planet, use her resources wisely, do you respect her people? Or do you exploit and trash the planet and denigrate, exploit and persecute her people, especially those that dont believe what you believe? "
-------------------
Well, do you Susan? Many people would you are the latter. "

what? wrote on Mar 27, 2009 11:47 PM:

" Thank you for demonstrating my point His Child. Well done. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 28, 2009 9:16 AM:

" Father Bob I used to live in New Mexico, Albuquerque UNM 4 years, Clovis 1 year, and Cimarron for 10 years. If I ever win the lottery I am out of here and back to the Land of Enchantment. I have been eyeing a property near Tres Piedres. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 28, 2009 9:17 AM:

" I should have added that maybe those who want to get me off this site should start buying me a lottery ticket each week! "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 28, 2009 9:20 AM:

" CD I have been an Environmentalist long before being one was cool. I took every ecology class I could in college. I have been a certified back packing instructor. I am a Master Gardener and I have helped restore 100 acres of worn out farm land in Piatt county and now 100 acres of farm land here in Coles County. I recycle, food cans, glass, plastic, newspapers and magazines. I compost yard and kitchen scraps. I drive a fairly fuel efficient car and I limit my trips. I reduce, reuse and recycle. And what do you do? "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 28, 2009 9:27 AM:

" Crow Woman the whole issue of suffering has caused man a great deal of trouble. There is no reason. The problem comes from trying to make there be a reason for everything. When I say that those who aren't believers have a purpose I am not talking just about the purpose we create for ourselves, although that is part of it, but LIFE itself is its own purpose. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 28, 2009 2:20 PM:

" Hey shump I seen that about the 100 acres. Good job, keep it up :-). Another question shump, how do you feel about hunting?? "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 28, 2009 2:22 PM:

" Susan I just read that again after I posted it. I am sorry for calling you shump instead of Susan, did not mean to sound offensive at all. "

medic57 wrote on Mar 28, 2009 2:34 PM:

" Frank Borman read from Genesis as Apollo 8 circled the Moon on Christmas Eve. He said it was the only thing he could think of to do. When they got back, they were sued by an Atheist from Texas. "

medic57 wrote on Mar 28, 2009 2:37 PM:

" When I say that those who aren't believers have a purpose I am not talking just about the purpose we create for ourselves, although that is part of it, but LIFE itself is its own purpose.

There has to be more to life than that Susan, it wouldn't make any sense if that's all there was. You're born, you live, you die. End of story! Then why try to improve or help anyone or anything. Life it'self would have no purpose. "

mickeygarlock wrote on Mar 28, 2009 7:25 PM:

" If I ever win the lottery I am out of here and back to the Land of Enchantment.

Ahh yes, another one who likes to b__ch and leave. As for winning the lottery, it's overrated. "

The Curious wrote on Mar 28, 2009 7:40 PM:

" Wow! Reading through all these threads, it seems to me that we have a hall monitor or something.
Was shumphreys appointed that? "

what wrote on Mar 29, 2009 12:05 AM:

" A day: It dawned clear and mild. The people were camped by the creek. Not of their choice but because they had danced. Yes, with their sacred shirts they had danced. In despair they danced. Because the people were starving in every way they danced. As ghost they danced. A single shot, then many. Cannons boomed. Many people lay dead. Those of the people who lay wounded and helpless by the creek were hauled in wagons to an army chapel. A blizzard arose. Cold north wind and snow. Those laying by the creek froze grotesquely, their blood to the earth. Snow blown. Those in the chapel lay quietly on the floor. No whimper, no request. The wind howled and tore at the cross above the chapel. It became dark. "

just watching wrote on Mar 29, 2009 8:21 AM:

shumphreys wrote on Mar 29, 2009 10:09 AM:

" As I said Medic man has created problems for himself by insisting that there has to be a "higher" purpose to everything. Humans are animals, we are subject to the same rules and limitations, gravity, need for food and water, evolution, desire to procreate or just have sex for the pleasure of having it. The difference between us and other animals is in our physical abilities created by our upright posture, opposable thumbs and the marvelous (not miraculous) capacity of our brains. It is that brain power that gives us the capabilities to rise above our circumstances and our immediate environment. What we do with that capacity is up to us and that is our challenge, our purpose and our direction, do the most we can with what we have. AND I might add we can take a good path or a not so good path in reaching our potential, good as in how we treat our fellows: man, animals and plants. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 29, 2009 10:10 AM:

" Mickey I have no delusions, I figure I will be around for quite a while so I can keep bugging you. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 29, 2009 10:13 AM:

" Mr. Gordon I have two groups of hunters that use my place. I don't hunt but I am very fond of venison, rarely buy beef any more. I'd rather see deer and other animals humanely hunted than see them starve to death because they have over populated an area. "

Cognitus wrote on Mar 29, 2009 12:13 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Mar 27, 2009 1:00 PM:
" Unfortunately Cognitus, it may be the only place left in the US. "
Susan, that reminds me of a map I saw a few days ago re "roadless areas". It showed that (in the lower 48 states) the most remote spot from highways is in Hinsdale County, Colorado for which Lake City is the county seat. I've taken jeep trips from Ouray to Lake City and it is beautiful, despite evidences of mining, and indeed remote.

Hinsdale County is incidentally where an expedition was winter bound and ended up as cannibals. But Alferd Packer survived, and when found guilty of murder, the judge said, "Alferd, there wuz only 14 Democrats in all of Hinsdale County and you et more than half of them." [And in tribute to Packer, when students at U of Colorado were invited to name their new cafeteria, they -- I'm serious -- named it for Alferd Packer.) "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 29, 2009 2:27 PM:

" Susan for all of the things we have yapped at each other I do compliment you for allowing the hunters. hunting would definitely be better than starvation, disease or hit by cars. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 29, 2009 3:34 PM:

" One other thought Medic I don't expect you to be able to grasp an esoteric teaching/philosophy such as what I have explained here. That is one reason why there will always be a need for a wide variety of religions, "one size" does not fit all. Some folks just aren't ready to progress any higher than they are currently at. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 29, 2009 3:35 PM:

" That is one college dining hall when you really don't want to know what the "mystery" meat is! "

medic57 wrote on Mar 30, 2009 1:09 PM:

" Humans are animals, we are subject to the same rules and limitations, gravity, need for food and water, evolution, desire to procreate or just have sex for the pleasure of having it.

One monster difference Susan, animals don't have the capacity to reason.

As far as evolution goes, if we evolved from apes, why aren't apes still evolving? Why isn't anything still evolving? "

mickeygarlock wrote on Mar 30, 2009 1:13 PM:

" Mickey Garlock say's "If I ever win the lottery"lol.. I'm not trying to be all up in your bussiness or any thing but I can only imagine that if the state wouldnt of raped your winnings the first time you'd probably be speaking to us from afar now.

I'm 52 years old and have lived in Mattoon 48 of those years and have never lived out of Illinois. of those 48 years here, 41 of them are in the same house. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 30, 2009 1:36 PM:

" Mickey had sad for you. Having never lived outside Illinois explains alot about you. It is a great country beyond Illinois borders. You get out more often. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 30, 2009 1:39 PM:

" Actually Medic animals do reason, they do solve problems which takes reasoning. Take my dogs for example, if I put up a barrier to keep them out of a room they quickly figure out how to get around or push through it. Like teenagers dogs think/reason they just do so in ways that get them into trouble rather than out of trouble.Then there is the story of a parrot last week, a todler started to choke and the parrot squawked "momma baby" and flapped its wings, the woman heard the rucus and ran in to save the todler. Sounds like some pretty serious reasoning skills to me. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 30, 2009 1:43 PM:

" Oh and Medic life continues to evolve, have you heard of drug resistant bacteria? Then there is that bird flu, a virus changing enough to jump from one host species to another host species. Many viruses are very host specific by the way. That is evolution at work, all around you, better watch out! "

just watching wrote on Mar 30, 2009 2:55 PM:

" Mickey, I just thought you won kinda big a few yrs.back and i know how the state taxed my little ole bitty $1000 win.so i can only imagine how much they got u for.That's all i was implying. "

1cav wrote on Mar 30, 2009 3:09 PM:

" Your so right Letha Snow.
So many more scientist are now realizing this now. Everything is fixed so mathematically as is DNA. Nothing left to random chance. "

father bob wrote on Mar 30, 2009 5:06 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Mar 30, 2009 1:43 PM:
" Oh and Medic life continues to evolve, have you heard of drug resistant bacteria? Then there is that bird flu, a virus changing enough to jump from one host species to another host species."""

you forgot to mention a couple of other vermin we could all live without....cockroaches and republicans. "

medic57 wrote on Mar 30, 2009 5:44 PM:

" Actually Medic animals do reason, they do solve problems which takes reasoning. Take my dogs for example, if I put up a barrier to keep them out of a room they quickly figure out how to get around or push through it.

Susan

They will also hump a visitors leg in the kitchen and screw on the sidewalk in front of your kids.

Viruses and bacteria don't evolve, they mutate. "

mickeygarlock wrote on Mar 30, 2009 5:46 PM:

" Mickey, I just thought you won kinda big a few yrs.back and i know how the state taxed my little ole bitty $1000 win.so i can only imagine how much they got u for.That's all i was implying.

Not a problem, they took $22500.00 of mine. That was right after Regan raised the income tax rate. "

The Question wrote on Mar 30, 2009 6:16 PM:

" Those of you who are convinced that "nothing evolves" should step right on over to the university Biological Sciences Department and propound your theories. See what kind of a reception you get. "

Equalizer wrote on Mar 30, 2009 7:15 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Mar 30, 2009 1:39 PM:
" Actually Medic animals do reason, they do solve problems which takes reasoning. Take my dogs for example, if I put up a barrier to keep them out of a room they quickly figure out how to get around or push through it.

We're still laughing our a$$e$ off from the other thread where Susan talks of her dogs.

When your dogs are reasoning, and solving problems, what is it that they are saying each time they pee on you?

Laughing our a$$e$ off! "

medic57 wrote on Mar 31, 2009 7:02 AM:

" Equalizer

Susan's dogs don't pee, they relieve themselves. Probablt ask for a hall pass too. "

JACKINTHEBOX wrote on Mar 31, 2009 7:53 AM:

" Susan

They will also hump a visitors leg in the kitchen and screw on the sidewalk in front of your kids.
----------------------------
Sounds like some of the soap opera shows on tv now days.
-----------------------------------
Like teenagers dogs think/reason they just do so in ways that get them into trouble rather than out of trouble.
---------------------
Kind of like a teenager dating. think/reason-If you can't get in the front door, use the back door. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 31, 2009 8:43 AM:

" Sorry Medic they evolve, which means they make permanant changes, change with modification. A mutation can happen that isn't permanant, it isn't a change to the genetic structure just to the one organism. Viruses in plants often cause mutations that are NOT passed down to the next generation. The multi striped tulips were a good example. The virus had to be injected into each new tuplip for the striping to show. That is now no longer the case and tulips have had change with modification. Plant breeders love mutants and use them to breed permanant characteristics into their plants. You really should learn about genetics, plant and animal breeding, and evolution. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 31, 2009 8:50 AM:

" I am sure you are Equalizer, after your post on the gun thread I can understand why you are the way you are, abusers breed more abusers. It just seems that you have learned to strike out in other ways rather than learned to be more considerate/compassionate/respectful of others. "

Collatine wrote on Mar 31, 2009 8:59 AM:

" The Question - most creationists do believe natural selection and mutations cause species to evolve as they adapt to their environments, sometimes forming new species. This process sometimes brings changes to DNA in a species - usually not, but sometimes. For instance, an antibiotic kills off healthy bacteria, leaving mutated bacteria - which normally wouldn't survive - to thrive. These mutated bacteria do not represent a higher order of bacteria - they have flaws in their DNA that nature normally weeds out. They are still regular little bacteria with the same basic DNA code - actually they have less information in their DNA than the healthy bacteria, so if anything, they represent downward evolution.

Creationists generally believe this process will never ever add new, organized information to the DNA of a species, and thus will never form higher order of species (let alone genus).

In other words, the process you call evolution does generate new species - like a wolf can evolve to a poodle as its DNA loses information. But the poodle species will never naturally be able to add new genetic information to form a wolf or a higher order of animal. Another example - a spotted moth can "evolve" out of a diverse moth population in highly polluted areas. When the highly polluted areas clean up, the white moths multiply as the spotted moths are picked off by natural selection. They are still moths - their DNA hasn't changed, and there is no upward movement, and no new information added to the DNA. This is the basic challenge creationists have with "molecules to amoebas to molecular biologists" evolution. They don't see that upward change occur in nature. "

Collatine wrote on Mar 31, 2009 9:36 AM:

" Be careful Susan - regarding breeding tulips, etc., you are describing intelligent design! :-) And very nice post on the abusers breeding abusers. These threads have a way of evolving... "

Equalizer wrote on Mar 31, 2009 10:44 AM:

" shumphreys wrote on Mar 31, 2009 8:50 AM:
" I am sure you are Equalizer, after your post on the gun thread I can understand why you are the way you are, abusers breed more abusers. It just seems that you have learned to strike out in other ways rather than learned to be more considerate/compassionate/respectful of others. "

You are taking an awful big leap there babe. That just goes to show how you can take somebody's true past story and put them in a category of your own and label them, you do it all the time.

Better be careful babe, I may be the judge or lawyer that you come before in the future, near future. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 31, 2009 11:37 AM:

" Actually Collatine living organisms do ADD to their genetic material, with some crosses producing offspring with an extra chromosome. Also DNA can be changed, it just takes a misfiring or damage to one little letter pair to change the DNA. Also Bonobos share 98% of our DNA, that is alot of genetic material to play around with. Also last night on a nature PBS show on Hawaiis volcanoes, in little green oasis like spots surrounded by lava, in 30 years, they have seen species make some dramatic changes. Also you need to understand the difference between species and genus and family and the whole genetic tree if you want to understand how changes are made. There is alot of fascinating information out there for those that are willing to read. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 31, 2009 11:39 AM:

" Sorry Collatine that isn't Intelligent Design that is accidental happenstance, no intent behind the act which is what Intelligent Design would require. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 31, 2009 12:31 PM:

" She is not worried Equalizer. When you just called her babe you was committing sexual harassment. "

theproletariat87 wrote on Mar 31, 2009 12:57 PM:

" Agree Letha, though I am not a christian, nor a buddhist(which I like the ideals of both. Mostly I am a deist. But I agree that the expansive universe, as beautiful as it is, can't be just a random event in its creation. In my opinion, a god of whatever sorts, created it, and left it alone. ANd if this god all powerful then they would know that life will evolve, and left the universe alone. "

Collatine wrote on Mar 31, 2009 2:47 PM:

" Susan Species undertake dramatic changes according to the information in their existing DNA code, and yes, I think its incredible as well. You said plant breeders use mutations to breed permanent characteristics. Plant breeders represent intelligence, hence my gentle teasing.

Ill assume a 1% difference in DNA from certain primates and humans sounds like not much until you realize that requires 35 million mutations, and represents 40-45 million DNA base pairs present in humans but missing in primates like chimps and bonobos. On simple terms, thats equivalent to 10,000 pages of information (not gibberish, but information), with 4000 letters and spaces on each page.

Also, bananas share about 40% of the DNA of humans And GM cars share 90% of the same supplies as Toyota, and yet they are different. So I guess Ive never understood the value of Chimps share 95% of the DNA as Humans argument to explain molecules to mechanics in a couple billion years evolution.

Think about it evolutionists use the fossil record to suggest humans evolved from a common ancestor of chimps about 5 million years ago. That would require about 7 beneficial and meaningful information-adding mutations to the DNA code PER YEAR. That doesnt include the countless false starts and waste bacteria to bakers evolution necessitates Thats pretty impressive, especially when today, most mutations we see to the genetic code tend to kill off the recipients of those changes. We just dont see a lot of information-adding (not just changing) mutations to DNA today, although we continue irradiating fruit flies, for instance, in hopes to form a higher order fly.

I guess my suggestion is, reasonable people can disagree with accidental slime to scientist evolution without having their intelligence impugned. :-) "

Equalizer wrote on Mar 31, 2009 3:56 PM:

" Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 31, 2009 12:31 PM:
" She is not worried Equalizer. When you just called her babe you was committing sexual harassment. "

LOL Rohn! And it wasn't Intelligent Design that is accidental happenstance, no intent behind the act which is what Intelligent Design would require. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 31, 2009 4:24 PM:

" Collatine sorry I missed the humor. You are right in regards to the plant breeders that is intelligent design at work. You are also right it is a pretty remarkable story, DNA, but not as far fetched as just saying "God did it". "

Collatine wrote on Mar 31, 2009 4:31 PM:

" Of course, reasonable people should also remember that writing a post in Word, and then pasting it here deletes some punctuations, thus negating my suggestion that what I wrote was intelligent... LOL "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 31, 2009 8:31 PM:

" LOL Denie it all you want Equalizer. You said something other than Ms to her. Any way you cut it that is sexual harassment!!!! LMFAO "

Equalizer wrote on Mar 31, 2009 9:20 PM:

" Oh Rohn Dear, you are such a sweetheart!
LOL! "

oldschool wrote on Mar 31, 2009 10:23 PM:

" The Question wrote on Mar 26, 2009 8:33 AM:

" Americas ruling ideology isnt capitalism or socialism or commercialism or secularism or sectarianism or fascism. It is stupidism.
Other countries in the world are not wedded to the loud, aggressive pursuit of ignorance, and that it why Americas days of greatness will remain firmly behind it "

Gosh "The Question"...all this time I thought you were a OBAMA supporter!!
Glad to see you are eating at the adult table...finally

I really couldn't have expressed the direction OBAMA is taking our country any better....GREAT JOB!! "

what wrote on Mar 31, 2009 11:37 PM:

" Campbell's Chicken Noodle Soup. Possabilities. "

Equalizer wrote on Apr 1, 2009 10:43 AM:

" what wrote on Mar 31, 2009 11:37 PM:
" Campbell's Chicken Noodle Soup. Possabilities. "

Possibilities, yes, of a foreclosure on your house due to the way inflated cost of an ER visit due to high sodium and MSG! "

medic57 wrote on Apr 1, 2009 10:57 AM:

" Campbell's Chicken Noodle Soup

212 noodles in every can. One thing is for sure, they don't use golfers to count the noodles, once thay get to the green, most golfers can't count past 4 or 5. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Apr 1, 2009 11:59 AM:

" Jeepers now you have me blushing, Thank You :-). "

HisChild wrote on Apr 1, 2009 2:25 PM:

" *gives Rohn a great big HUG!*
Hey Sweetie, you look good in blush! *LOL!* "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Apr 1, 2009 4:41 PM:

" LMAO I said blushing not in blush. "

Equalizer wrote on Apr 1, 2009 5:22 PM:

" Glad to be of assistance Rohn Dear! "

Equalizer wrote on Apr 1, 2009 5:32 PM:

" Rohn- You are welcome hun!

Some of HisChild's blush must've rubbed off on you LOL! "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Apr 1, 2009 7:12 PM:

" Ok Thank You Hunny Sweetheart for clarifying that it was blush that had rubbed off and was not put there by me :-). LMAOOOO
I could already hear Rotty "

The Curious wrote on Apr 1, 2009 8:08 PM:

" :) I think some of HisChild rubs off on everybody, LOL!
Group Hug everyone! LOL! "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Apr 1, 2009 8:45 PM:

" Curious you are right about that. Nice down to earth funny people have a tendency to make everyone around them smile :-). Group hug?? Count me in !!! "

HerChild wrote on Apr 1, 2009 9:07 PM:

" Group Hug? Count me in too! :) "

Rotty wrote on Apr 1, 2009 9:44 PM:

" Me 3!
LOL!
:-P "

Equalizer wrote on Apr 1, 2009 10:44 PM:

" Me 4! Love group hugs! :) "

mickeygarlock wrote on Apr 2, 2009 12:11 AM:

" Susan

I may not have lived outside of Illinois, but I have visited many places in this great country, in fact I see no reason to ever leave this great county to go on vacation. I have been to Chicago, Cincy, St. Louis, Houston, Nashville, Chattanooga, Atlanta, Orlando, Tampa, Miami, Vegas, Hoover Dam and Mt. St. Helens. Nothing really compares to that last one.Living in Illinois has never be a problem. I was born her in Matton, will probably live her all my life and will proably die her. I just don't see any reason to move. "

shumphreys wrote on Apr 2, 2009 9:09 AM:

" Mickey I am glad you have found your space. I like Illinois but I like New Mexico better. My body is better suited to the hot dry, high mountain climate not this Illinois humidity. Like religion we have to find what is best suited to us and then do what it takes to grow and thrive where we get planted. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Apr 2, 2009 9:18 AM:

" Rotty keep that tounge over there :-) "

Rotty wrote on Apr 2, 2009 2:29 PM:

" LOL @ Rohn.

It would cool if this place had smilies, like most decent forums already have.
Alot of folks here seem to like to type them. "

HisChild wrote on Apr 2, 2009 6:08 PM:

" Equalizer wrote on Apr 1, 2009 5:32 PM:
" Rohn- You are welcome hun!

Some of HisChild's blush must've rubbed off on you LOL! "

ROFL! Yeppers, it sure enough did! ;-) "

HisChild wrote on Apr 2, 2009 6:10 PM:

" The Curious wrote on Apr 1, 2009 8:08 PM:
" :) I think some of HisChild rubs off on everybody, LOL!
Group Hug everyone! LOL! "

ROFL!!! :-) Thank You? Hahahahaha!! "

HisChild wrote on Apr 2, 2009 6:19 PM:

" :-) ROFL!!! :-) HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
I am so impressed that you all did a group hug...Wowsers, I am So Happy!

You guys didn't count quite right though, LOL!

Group hug? Okay, watch, Curious is ONE...Rohn is TWO, HerChild is THREE, ROTTY- you are FOUR, Equalizer- you are FIVE, I am SIX...LOLOLOL!!!
*Squishes everybody real good!*
:-) God Bless You All! :-)

**********************(The posts below)
The Curious wrote on Apr 1, 2009 8:08 PM:
" :) I think some of HisChild rubs off on everybody, LOL!
Group Hug everyone! LOL! "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Apr 1, 2009 8:45 PM:
" Curious you are right about that. Nice down to earth funny people have a tendency to make everyone around them smile :-). Group hug?? Count me in !!! "

HerChild wrote on Apr 1, 2009 9:07 PM:
" Group Hug? Count me in too! :) "

Rotty wrote on Apr 1, 2009 9:44 PM:
" Me 3!
LOL!
:-P "

Equalizer wrote on Apr 1, 2009 10:44 PM:
" Me 4! Love group hugs! :) "
*************************** "

HisChild wrote on Apr 2, 2009 6:22 PM:

" ROHN, Sweety...
Rohn Gordon wrote on Apr 1, 2009 8:45 PM:
" Curious you are right about that. Nice down to earth funny people have a tendency to make everyone around them smile :-). Group hug?? Count me in !!!

:-) THANK YOU! :-)
And you all have brightened up my day so much, THANK YOU ALL! HappyHappyJoyJoy! "

The Curious wrote on Apr 2, 2009 7:35 PM:

" LET'S EVERYONE WOULD GET TOGETHER ON AN ISSUE LIKE THIS...IT WOULD BE GREAT!

Please consider these posts that were under the Tues. March 31st Letter: -Both Recycling Options Should Be Available.- It seems that when it comes to recycling, most of the letters are going into the archives before people have a chance to read them.

HisChild wrote on Apr 2, 2009 6:56 PM:
" I think doing away with the recycling bins would be climbing back into the past instead of moving forward, BIG MISTAKE!

How about taxing the grocery stores and bars to keep the recycling bins open and to pay for mandatory city-wide curb-side recycling?

Most of the glass, cans, and plastics come from them anyway, right? "

HisChild wrote on Apr 2, 2009 7:00 PM:
" Landfills should be used only for non-recyclable items.

We fill our garbage about 1/4 of the way once a week, yet are paying for weekly pick-up. What we really need is once-a-month pickup for trash.

We recycle a lot more than we trash. If everyone did that...WOW...what an impact that would make!

And it would really be easier to do with a curb-side recycle program, then dragging it all to the recycle bins at the water tower.

However, for those out of city limits, recycling bins should be available somewhere, so they are not just trashing all the stuff that should be recycled! " "

Cognitus wrote on Apr 2, 2009 7:38 PM:

" medic57:"One monster difference Susan, animals don't have the capacity to reason.

That's not really true. If you read scientific reports there are various instances in which animals use logic to gain food, invent tools to gain food.
=========================
"As far as evolution goes, if we evolved from apes, why aren't apes still evolving? Why isn't anything still evolving? "

medic, haven't you read a newspaper this century. Microbes, have survived antibiotics, have EVOLVED into a group of microbes that are not sensitive to antibiotics -- natural selection. It's an upcoming medical crisis; the germs have EVOLVED until they've become immune to medications that used to kill them. You may DIE at the "hands" of an evolved germ.
MRSA was responsible for 37% of fatal cases of blood poisoning in the UK in 1999, up from 4% in 1991. Half of all S. aureus infections in the US are now resistant to penicillin, methicillin, tetracycline and erythromycin. The bugs are evolving faster than we are, and in the end they are going to get us!!!!!!!! "

Cognitus wrote on Apr 2, 2009 7:57 PM:

" Mickey:"I have been to Chicago, Cincy, St. Louis, Houston, Nashville, Chattanooga, Atlanta, Orlando, Tampa, Miami, Vegas, Hoover Dam and Mt. St. Helens."

Jeez, Mickey, you've spent all your life chasing man-made cities, dams, etc.
Why would it matter which of THOSE you live in; they're all alike. Now I wouldn't mind London, and I also liked Prague and Berlin ... but I suspect after a year or so they too would look like "just another city".

I live in Colorado 3 months a year, where I can walk 30 miles from my house and see only one man-made structure. One day a friend and I took off up the mountains at dawn, cross-country, and each view led on to the next along the Continental Divide until time forced us to turn around; when we got home at dark we figured we had walked about 22 miles and gained (and lost) about a mile in elevation. Once you've had an experience like that, you'll never forget it. I'm not a church-goer; I get my "spiritual" experience by hiking into the wilderness "where man is only a visitor and does not remain".
I'll also second Susan's choice; I love New Mexico. In a sense I almost ended up a New Mexico-ite; when my mother was orphaned a hundred years ago (how seldom that happens now), an uncle wanted to adopt her but the families would not permit it because they were moving to New Mexico to become ranchers. So you see, I could have grown up a New Mexico ranch-boy instead of an Illinois farm-boy. "

mickeygarlock wrote on Apr 2, 2009 10:25 PM:

" Cognitus

All alike?

Have you ever been on top of Mt. St. Helens? There is nothing in this country that compares to it. The Grand Canyon pales by comparison. "

medic57 wrote on Apr 2, 2009 10:27 PM:

" But the biggest question of all is, Who lives under the Sea in a Giant Pineapple? "

Late Bird wrote on Apr 3, 2009 1:11 AM:

" Worth your effort in seeing this through!

The Curious wrote on Apr 2, 2009 7:35 PM:
" LET'S EVERYONE WOULD GET TOGETHER ON AN ISSUE LIKE THIS...IT WOULD BE GREAT!

Please consider these posts that were under the Tues. March 31st Letter: -Both Recycling Options Should Be Available.- It seems that when it comes to recycling, most of the letters are going into the archives before people have a chance to read them.

HisChild wrote on Apr 2, 2009 6:56 PM:
" I think doing away with the recycling bins would be climbing back into the past instead of moving forward, BIG MISTAKE!

How about taxing the grocery stores and bars to keep the recycling bins open and to pay for mandatory city-wide curb-side recycling?

Most of the glass, cans, and plastics come from them anyway, right? "

HisChild wrote on Apr 2, 2009 7:00 PM:
" Landfills should be used only for non-recyclable items.

We fill our garbage about 1/4 of the way once a week, yet are paying for weekly pick-up. What we really need is once-a-month pickup for trash.

We recycle a lot more than we trash. If everyone did that...WOW...what an impact that would make!

And it would really be easier to do with a curb-side recycle program, then dragging it all to the recycle bins at the water tower.

However, for those out of city limits, recycling bins should be available somewhere, so they are not just trashing all the stuff that should be recycled! " " "

jackinthebox wrote on Apr 3, 2009 6:41 AM:

" mickeygarlock wrote on Apr 2, 2009 10:25 PM:

" Cognitus

All alike?

Have you ever been on top of Mt. St. Helens? There is nothing in this country that compares to it. The Grand Canyon pales by comparison. "
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"Broadway ave." Now theirs a wonderful sight. Some of the finest bars in the world are located their along with a beatiful train Depot. And if you want to see some large lakes just let it rain. Mattoon also has some of the worlds finest resturants for a wide variety of some of the finest food in America. "

shumphreys wrote on Apr 3, 2009 8:38 AM:

" Micky I have never been to the top of Mt. St. Helens but I have climbed (not in a vehicle, on foot) 14,000 ftrs. (Harvard and Yale) in Colorado, the Truchas peaks in New Mexico and many other less spectacular but equally as beautiful peaks in both states. But for me, I like the Canyon lands where you can sit on a mesa and watch "Time and the River flowing". "

HisChild wrote on Apr 3, 2009 10:44 AM:

" THANK YOU to The Curious, God bless you!
*Hugs Everyone!* :-)

If you get a chance, everyone please put your two cents into the recycling letters, *LOL!* (If you can find them!) "

HisChild wrote on Apr 3, 2009 1:42 PM:

" Thank You Late Bird! :-)
Have a blessed weekend! *squish!* "

Cognitus wrote on Apr 8, 2009 6:58 PM:

" MickeyG"" Cognitus

All alike?

Have you ever been on top of Mt. St. Helens? There is nothing in this country that compares to it. The Grand Canyon pales by comparison. "

Yes, I noted that you stuck Mt. St. Helens on the end of the list; but the rest were simply look-alike cities.

No I've never been on top of Mt. St. Helens, elevation 8,325. I've climbed to the top of Longs Peak, 14,256 ft.
however. "

Cognitus wrote on Apr 8, 2009 7:03 PM:

" Susan:"I like the Canyon lands where you can sit on a mesa and watch "Time and the River flowing".
And so do I -- as well as the nearby Arches.
If I were younger, I'd like to take a float trip down the Colorado. However, 6 of us from Charleston -- a bit over 40 years ago -- did take a float trip down the Yampa and Green Rivers in Dinosaur. "