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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Lee Enterprises

Thursday, March 19, 2009 8:55 PM CDT
LETTER: Obama is anti-business and pro-government

JACK PIERCE, Charleston

Since the articulate Obama has assumed the presidency and waged class war on the wealthy and near wealthy in this country, we have seen the stock market tumble.

At all times, and in every country, the Communist party has used class warfare to achieve it’s objective of complete control and domination over the people. This administration’s objective is to have the most people working for the federal and state governments as is possible, all loyal voters for Democrat policies, and then become fiercely protective of their individual jobs.

At present we are seeing large banks becoming nationalized, even if this administration is somewhat reluctant to use the N word. GM and Chrysler continue to wallow in red ink but have a financial lifeline to the White House. Both of these companies would be abandoned to bankruptcy, as they should be, were it not for the UAW Democratic voters. So, they will receive a few billion from time to time from this administration in order to stay in business, until such time as they are permanently nationalized.

There has been no more anti-business president in my lifetime. No one in his tax-dodging cabinet has any business experience or has ever met a payroll. I am certainly relieved to learn that Geithner will be going after those who avoid paying their income taxes. Has he looked in the mirror lately?

The business people of America on Wall Street have looked at Obama’s ambitious spending plans and rejected them. Put simply, spending borrowed money in a questionable manner, and rejecting long term tax cuts to turn around an economic recession is a fools bargain.

Raising taxes in a steadily declining market is the very height of stupidity. Obama and his crew of radical leftists are taking the exact opposite road to a rational economic recovery. Yet, you who voted for him should have known what to expect, for he told you precisely what he wanted to do while campaigning.

Only radical Democrats such as this president are stupid enough to embark upon multiple grandiose government spending programs and raise taxes during a recession.

Precisely the prescription for a very prolonged depression which will send this nation into financial oblivion and over that proverbial cliff.

JACK PIERCE

Charleston

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Harry Potter wrote on Mar 20, 2009 7:08 AM:

" Jack reminds me of that old saying, any fool can criticize.

Hey Jack, we tried your way for the last 8 years. How did that work out? "

61938 wrote on Mar 20, 2009 7:28 AM:

" Amen Jack. doing one heck of a job there hussain. "

The Question wrote on Mar 20, 2009 7:51 AM:

" "Anti-business," Pierce? It may have escaped your extremely limited awareness, but capitalism just choked on its own fraudulent greed and wrecked he world economy. Obama has all he can do trying to perform triage.
Why don't you go back to reviewing movies you haven't seen? You were better at that. "

jayce wrote on Mar 20, 2009 8:42 AM:

" Very good Jack Pierce---right on. The republicans didn't do a real good job but I wis they would quit demonizing the last president. This pres. seems to want to go around running for office --
still and letting Pelosi and Reid run things into the ground. In fact the repubs got greedy so they voted in the biggest spenders of all-----the dems. "

father bob wrote on Mar 20, 2009 9:23 AM:

" seems to me we were going quite well before the bush tax cuts.....

seems you must actually be against prosperity jack, and sour because you've lost a boat load in the stock market due to your hero's inept attempt at governance. you want the next generation to pick up the tab jack?.....oh yeah, i guess you do, what am i thinking!.. "

Cognitus wrote on Mar 20, 2009 9:53 AM:

" Jack Pierce:"Since the articulate Obama has assumed the presidency and waged class war on the wealthy and near wealthy in this country, we have seen the stock market tumble."
Now don't'misunderstand me; I wouldn't call Jack Pierce a liar but Jack is gettin' up in years, his memory is failin' a bit AND he is sometimes a tiny bit selective with the truth. He underlines the recent "tumble" of the stock market, hintin' that this has all happened since Obama became president.
I have just used Google to call up a graph of the Standard and Poor 500 Index and (these values are close but slightly approximate because I'm looking at a graph)I find that the S&P reached a maximum of about 13,000 in May of 2008.
Further, from a chart that gives exact valutes, specificially on 1/19/2009 -- i.e. the day before Obama's inauguration -- the S&P was at 8,007.
Now Ole Jack has forgotten who was President during THAT terrible "tumble" of the stock market -- between May, 2008 and January, 2009 -- and even though my memory may be fading a bit, I do seem to believe that George W Bush was the President of our United States through that time. So maybe we should take the rest of Jack's rambling around with a several grains of salt...... "

jrussell wrote on Mar 20, 2009 9:55 AM:

" says Jack pierce lol, real credible, your anti Obama pro tom foolery, and besides I thought you loved pro gov't jack? "

Cognitus wrote on Mar 20, 2009 11:06 AM:

" By searching Google more diligently I now have more precise indication of the magnitude of the fall of the the S&P 500
during the reign of King George:
The high point of the S&P was on Oct 5, 2007 when it reached 1,557.59.
I cannot seem to move my cursor fine enough to hit Inauguration Day, but on January 16, 2009 the S&P 500 was at
850.12
How the mighty have fallen!!!!! The Emperor was stripped from his robes and crowns down to his shorts by Inauguration Day. That fancy morning coat he was wearing was only for modesty; the man was truly naked. "

father bob wrote on Mar 20, 2009 12:31 PM:

" wow jack....after 60 days in office the nation's converting to communism, and it's all the UAW's fault.

makes complete sense to me.....*ugh* "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 20, 2009 2:50 PM:

" Every time Jack writes one of his ranting tirades he proves how out of touch he really is. And the funny part is that some who read them actually thinks he knows what he talking about. Although Jacks misread of the stock market isn't as funny as his review of the movie Brokeback Mountain, the movie he critiqued on this site that had never actually seen.

Yeah right, Amen Jack! lol! "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 20, 2009 3:05 PM:

" Folks will find anyone else to blame but themselves for the messes they get into. "

name_hidden_to_protect_the_innocent wrote on Mar 20, 2009 7:15 PM:

" That's right Shumphrey's...and if their mother's would have aborted them, we wouldn't have to listen to them to begin with. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 20, 2009 7:22 PM:

" Come on lets be fair, I am sure as I would think that you are also. The stock market stocks are bought and sold on feeling of what WILL happen in the future weather it be near or far. After Obama won the Democratic side, most knew he would be President. I feel LOTS of the tumble was caused from that. Now I am not saying its the only reason but I feel its the main reason.
Obama is ruining us is what many say. I do not know if I agree with it or not. Only time will tell. But as of right now I have seen many 180s from his promises "

Tom Andres wrote on Mar 20, 2009 7:49 PM:

" Cognitus, so much for trying to put forth your knowledge of the financial markets. I'm almost embarrassed for you. The Dow Jones Industrial Average (not the S&P500) closed at an all time high of 14,164.53 on October 9, 2007. Ok then, I'll just leave it at that.

You go ahead and play now or have some more alcohol or whatever it is you're doing. Lambast Jack all you want. I'm sure he can take it, considering the source. I think the rest of us will be able to assign a value to the legitimacy of your childish barbs.

Oh, and by the way, you'll get a kick out of this. Google who owns the DJIA. "

mickeygarlock wrote on Mar 21, 2009 12:07 AM:

" Yet, you who voted for him should have known what to expect, for he told you precisely what he wanted to do while campaigning.

Thankfully yes.

Maybe we can just spend A Billion a week on wars and that will fix the economy. Ohh wait, that's already been done, hasn't it? "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 21, 2009 8:00 AM:

" You are absolutely right there Name Hidden, they need to develop an Intelligence test done in the first trimester so that those that don't measure up to minimal standards can be eliminated.I doubt that you would have made the cut. "

JR wrote on Mar 21, 2009 8:21 AM:

" The projected numbers with the deficit this president and his administration are running up is indeed starting to get alarming -- unsustainable levels of deficit for the next decade, and that's only if the this administration does nothing more.

The release of printed money will appear for a while to fix the deflation, but it's taking a horrid risk with out of control inflation. That in and of itself would be bad for business and general prosperity, but coupled with new taxes it will be even worse ("the rich" seem a tempting target, but if "the rich" don't invest in business, then the middle/working class don't have jobs and hence become "the poor", and being on the government dole does not lift one out of poverty nor stimulate the economy; in fact, it becomes excerbates the problem all around). If that happens, the world will be sitting on top of a global monetary collapse, yes, a depression. The only way out of such a fiasco if that were to happen might be nationalization (see: the dole) -- but that is a mighty big "might", and then you have other issues with how nationalization would work in a society that values economic freedom.

With all of this, there is yet something more: our economy is ripe for some outside incident (like another 9/11 type of attack)to destablize the economic situation further (both nationally and globally). It could end up like a house of cards collapsing in on itself. Knowledge of this has countries racing to rearm and tensions from that getting higher. Sounds like a perfect recipe for a bright and glorious future for my children.

On the other hand, it's good to know that some people have the unquestioning faith of their convictions. "

The Question wrote on Mar 21, 2009 10:47 AM:

" Ah, yes, the Republicans, who loudly applauded torture, government kidnapping, secret permanent imprisonment and unlimited police-state spying on Americans, have suddenly discovered how much they revere the Constitution -- at least when it comes to finding an excuse to protect the taxpayer-fleeced million-dollar bonuses of fraud-peddling fatcats. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 21, 2009 12:49 PM:

" ("Maybe we can just spend A Billion a week on wars and that will fix the economy. Ohh wait, that's already been done, hasn't it?")

Yes.

It was called Keynesian Economics under the title of The New Deal by FDR.

Maybe that's why Obama has no plans to end The War in Iraq. "

jrussell wrote on Mar 21, 2009 12:50 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Mar 20, 2009 3:05 PM:

" Folks will find anyone else to blame but themselves for the messes they get into. "

...Susan at least to me you're a real person, to me opinions without a name or face are as good as dust on my T.V., and I can half way understand Bluedogs concerns for not wanting to reveal that info but moreover I feel she likes to criticize but not take criticism, I have endured her rounds of bullying and I still can't figure out why she can't reveal what college she received what degree from, Does the info really matter...NO but still she dished out plenty against mine so why can't she take a little in return, Ic an only assume her to be cowardly, it is easy to make fun of someone you know everything about...congrats to BBD for doing that but what do I have to go on... "

jrussell wrote on Mar 21, 2009 12:51 PM:

" ROHN I say the same to you... I can half way understand Bluedogs concerns for not wanting to reveal that info but moreover I feel she likes to criticize but not take criticism, I have endured her rounds of bullying and I still can't figure out why she can't reveal what college she received what degree from, Does the info really matter...NO but still she dished out plenty against mine so why can't she take a little in return, I can only assume her to be cowardly, it is easy to make fun of someone you know everything about...congrats to BBD for doing that but what do I have to go on... "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 21, 2009 2:23 PM:

" (jrussell - "I can half way understand Bluedogs concerns for not wanting to reveal that info but moreover I feel HE likes to criticize but not take criticism, I have endured HIS rounds of bullying")

First of all it's "HE" not "SHE".

And secondly- Of course I don't like to take criticism.

Who DOES for God's sake?

You show me someone who does, and I'll show you a liar or a masochist.

Thirdly- We BOTH did our share of bullying around here. Most of the time you and Harry and Bob were following me around in a pack, but I didn't complain.

And finally,

You need to drop the self-righteous crusade against anonymous posters. Anonymity has little to do with the relevancy and legitimacy of most of the debates in here.

You're starting to sound obsessed.

Maybe you should take a breather for a day or two.

Don't worry, these debates and all of these anonymous posters will still be here tomorrow and the next day......and the next day...... and the next day...... and the next.....lol "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 21, 2009 2:35 PM:

" NJ that last one lost me. "

Sister Rose wrote on Mar 21, 2009 4:10 PM:

" Remember to tell every body you see that Rick Hall is the previous school board President that has put the voters of Mattoon in such a bind with their current tax bills. He and Bob Becker are very close and are hoping to be able to spend all the money we have and borrow 10 Million so they can spend us into the grand canyon. Rosa Binum "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 21, 2009 4:24 PM:

" To Jrussel you have discovered how bullies operate. BDD is nothing but a bully. Bullies are small people who make themselves feel big by beating others down, mentally, emotionally and sometimes (actually all too often) physically. You have put up with and handled his bullying quite well. There are as I see it only two ways to deal with bullies, beat them at their own game which ends up being a no win situation, or ignore them. I also played BDDs game and beat him and now I ignore him. I rarely read any of his posts. I suggest you do the same. Bullies by the way make up their own rules as they go along, they don't answer direct questions, you can only trick them.There are others on these threads who are just hangers on, they hang around the bully hoping some of his aura will rub off onto them. What rubs off is stinky though and they also end up as the lowest of the low. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 21, 2009 4:29 PM:

" One more thing, we all know that anonymity has a lot to do with civility and courage and integrity. Those who post anonymously don't have to be concerned with any and aren't. I have greater respect for those who use their own names than those who hide, for whatever reason, and some reasons are probably legitimate. "

JR wrote on Mar 21, 2009 4:46 PM:

" Susan, in reference to your remarks concerning "torture supporting Republicans who find a new found love for corporate fatcats" (I believe I've touched on the jist of your comment, and I believe it was aimed at my remarks, so I'll reply -- perhaps they weren't):

I'm not of the Republican political affiliation -- however, I don't have a knee jerk reaction of hatred or disdain towards Republicans (as I would hope they wouldn't have towards people with political affiliations such as myself). Also, it does not matter what political affiliation you subscribe to, this economic situation is becoming worrisome. In regards to your comments, which I gather were in mention of the AIG bailouts (although it isn't germaine to the economy in and of itself, it is a minor story involved in the greater scheme of things, so I suppose it's worth discussing): personally, I was not in favor of the bailouts, not as they stood written, too loosely composed and containing elements such as this that contributed little to bailout persay. However, this administration knew of the bonuses, knew they were legal as per the wording of the bailout -- and there are those within the administration who recieved bonus money from AIG....and not one thing was mentioned until now? And the mentioning had little to do with accountability, rather a fairly shameless display of fingerpointing and pass the buck. And we castigate the AIG employers? (and that's putting it mildly -- we have politicians calling to list where they live and particulars about their families -- that is wrong Susan, and dangerous, and you know it, so don't condone it even in the slightest way) They just accepted the (legal) bonuses -- how about we ask, who allowed them the bonuses and why did they do so? Why are we not asking for some accountablity from the administration for their part in this mess?

Honest criticism is the hallmark of a free and open society -- to denounce that is to denounce freedom...and that is wrong whether you be liberal or conservative, Democrat or Republican and all points in between and otherwise. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 21, 2009 8:02 PM:

" NJ posted >...Susan at least to me you're a real person, to me opinions without a name or face are as good as dust on my T.V.,
-------------------------------
NJ again with this statement you are telling everyone that does not use their real name, that you do not care what they say in essence. That their opinions are invalid, and void of any meaning. Again I ask WHY?? It matters not what name they use if it is their opinion then that it that.
I know you feel everyone should use their real name, thats fine you think that, because it is you're opinion. But in my opinion and I am guessing most on heres also, think that your opinion about this subject is wrong.
...Susan at least to me you're a real person, to me opinions without a name or face are as good as dust on my T.V., "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 22, 2009 5:55 AM:

" South Carolina Gov. Sanford last week said he may reject nearly a quarter of the stimulus money available to his state. Perry, Jindal, Texas Gov. Rick Perry and Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour have said they would reject a portion of the money that would expand unemployment benefits to those not currently eligible to receive them.

ABC-

With the number of people losing their jobs daily, I have to wonder how smart of a move this is, politically. Interestingly enough, all of the above Republican governors have been mentioned as potential GOP candidates for president. That seems to cast a shadow of doubt on their motives, and would seem to make their actions nothing more than grandstanding. But of course being the good Republicans like they are, they probably abhor the "socialistic" idea of unemployment benefits in the first place. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 22, 2009 8:32 AM:

" I may have goofed and sent the last remark to JRussell instead of JR. I don't know if you are one and the same. If different I apologize. "

JR wrote on Mar 22, 2009 9:06 AM:

" I'm sure there are political motives, but what sort of strings are attached to the stimulus money? Greater federal say so in how the state runs it's business? If that is the case, then the concept of the individual states having some autonomy from federal government goes out the window, which destroys the balance of state - federal balance of power as laid out in the Constitution.

Back to this AIG fiasco, as this could be a good case in point vis a vis the state stimulus packages -- while the bonuses are a bitter pill, what is being suggested (bills of attainder, forcing them to give back the money or summarily taxing it at 100 - 90%) is a direct attack upon another Constitutionally granted right: property and due process. Much as no one likes the fact that the money was given as bonuses, opening the door by allowing the government to take the money back is a slippery slope towards no citizen having property and due process. What the government gives, it can take away as it sees fit -- and with this it could give away everything and take away anything (and we have to look beyond this administration to the future, as to how this could be played out, for if it goes into effect, if the door gets opened for that sort of power/property grab by the federal government...). That doesn't sound like such a good idea to me. "

ed miller wrote on Mar 22, 2009 9:18 AM:

" shumphreys wrote on Mar 21, 2009 8:00 AM:
" You are absolutely right there Name Hidden, they need to develop an Intelligence test done in the first trimester so that those that don't measure up to minimal standards can be eliminated.I doubt that you would have made the cut. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 21, 2009 4:24 PM:
" Bullies are small people who make themselves feel big by beating others down, mentally, emotionally and sometimes (actually all too often) physically." "

The Question wrote on Mar 22, 2009 9:39 AM:

" Join us here in the 21st century, Jack. The bankers and the financial CEOs are those "welfare queens" you Republicans were always screaming about. "

ed miller wrote on Mar 22, 2009 9:54 AM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Mar 22, 2009 5:55 AM:
" ...Perry, Jindal, Texas Gov. Rick Perry and Mississippi Gov. Haley Barbour have said they would reject a portion of the money that would expand unemployment benefits to those not currently eligible to receive them...

With the number of people losing their jobs daily, I have to wonder how smart of a move this is, politically"

The stimulus money is only temporary. It would require the states to change their unemployment laws to facilitate the new money. In a couple of years when the Fed's money is gone, the states would be saddled with the expensive entitlements that they cannot afford, and taking away benefits that people are used to is almost impossible. It would require a greater tax burden on the state's businesses, which would most likely result in more unemployment down the road. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 22, 2009 10:08 AM:

" Okay Susan, fine.

Why don't you and Jrussel get together and start a community protest to abolish ALL anonymous posters in here?

Would that make you happy?

Or better yet. Why don't you both designate yourselves as the new moderators and protest the paper to abolish ME specifically, since I'm apparently the only bad-guy (Bully) in here.

Let's just forget the fact that both of you have followed me around these threads just as often as I have responded to you. And let's just overlook the reality that insults were being hurled by people loooong before I ever showed up in here. Or that a group of posters would attack others in here on a daily basis. Let's also forget that you Susan, are more than a little miffed that I bested you on several debates. I'm quite certain that has nothing to do with your attempt to brand me as a pariah, I'm sure.

Of course if I were on YOUR side of most of these debates we wouldn't hear a peep out of you, would we Susan.

Or better yet, why don't both of you lobby the paper to actually ENFORCE THEIR OWN COMMENT POLICY IN HERE?

No comment may contain:

* Potentially libelous statements; such as accusing somebody of a crime, defamation of character, or statements that can harm somebody's reputation.

* Obscene, explicit, or racist language.

* Personal attacks, insults, threats, harassment or inciting violence. "

ed miller wrote on Mar 22, 2009 10:13 AM:

" from the AP "...In the interview with CBS' "60 Minutes," Obama made clear he was standing behind beleaguered Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner, who was roundly criticized over the bonus flap and steps to revive the economy.

Obama said that if Geithner offered his resignation, the answer would be, "Sorry buddy, you've still got the job." CBS released excerpts Saturday."

Well, it looks like Obama has already had his, "Great job, Brownie!" moment. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 22, 2009 10:41 AM:

" By NAFTALI BENDAVID
WASHINGTON -- Republicans railed against the Democrats' massive economic-stimulus and spending bills as fiscally irresponsible, but some GOP lawmakers are taking credit for projects in their own districts funded by the measures.

"Washington needs to stop spending money that it doesn't have," Michigan Republican Rep. Pete Hoekstra said in attacking the $410 billion omnibus-spending bill, which funds the government through September. But once it passed, he touted its benefits for his district, which stretches along Lake Michigan.

WSJ-

Locally, our boys Righter and Rose rant and rail over state spending, but make sure the get their mugs on the front page anytime they can secure any funding for their districts. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 22, 2009 10:48 AM:

" There was plenty of outrage on Capitol Hill last week over the executive bonuses paid out by AIG after getting federal bailout money. But another money trail could make voters just as angry: the campaign dollars to members of Congress from banks and firms that have received billions via the Troubled Asset Relief Program.

While a few big firms, such as Wells Fargo and JP Morgan Chase, have curtailed their campaign giving, others are quietly doling out cash to select members of Congress, particularly those who serve on committees that oversee TARP. In recent filings with the Federal Election Commission, the political action committee for Bank of America (which got $15 billion in bailout money) sent out $24,500 in the first two months of 2009, including $1,500 to House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer and another $15,000 to members of the House and Senate banking panels. Citigroup ($25 billion) dished out $29,620, including $2,500 to House GOPWhip Eric Cantor, who also got $10,000 from UBS which, while not a TARP recipient, got $5 billion in bailout funds as an AIG "counterparty." "This certainly appears to be a case of TARP funds being recycled into campaign contributions," says Brett Kappell, a D.C. lawyer who tracks donations. (A spokesman for Cantor did not respond to requests for comment. A spokeswoman for Hoyer said it's his "policy to accept legal contributions.")

Newsweek-

Sleaze abounds in both parties... "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 22, 2009 12:12 PM:

" Harry I am not at all sure of this or not, but I heard something about people would have to repay these extra unemployment benefits. So I am not so sure that turning them down might not be the best idea. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 22, 2009 12:20 PM:

" New York congressional candidate Jim Tedisco has boldly gone where few Republicans have been before: publicly blowing off firebrand conservative talk host Rush Limbaugh.

"Rush Limbaugh is meaningless to me," Tedisco said in an interview with the Oneonta (N.Y.) Daily Star editorial board on Thursday. "The only constituency I'm worried about are the residents of the 20th Congressional District.''

Other GOP politicians who have belittled Limbaugh recently, including Republican National Committee chairman Michael Steele, rushed back to reverse their statements and praise Rush at something approaching warp speed.

Huffington post-

How long will it before this guy goes running to Boss Limbaugh to beg for forgiveness and cry that he was misquoted? So far every GOP member who has been critical of His Holiness, Rush, has been forced to beg for forgiveness, so I doubt this clown will be an exception. lol! "

jrussell wrote on Mar 22, 2009 1:55 PM:

" Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 21, 2009 8:02 PM:

" NJ posted >...Susan at least to me you're a real person, to me opinions without a name or face are as good as dust on my T.V.,
-------------------------------
NJ again with this statement you are telling everyone that does not use their real name, that you do not care what they say in essence. That their opinions are invalid, and void of any meaning. Again I ask WHY?? It matters not what name they use if it is their opinion then that it that.
I know you feel everyone should use their real name, thats fine you think that, because it is you're opinion. But in my opinion and I am guessing most on heres also, think that your opinion about this subject is wrong.
...Susan at least to me you're a real person, to me opinions without a name or face are as good as dust on my T.V., "

...and that's fine ROHN, I understand some don't agree and some do, it's the way of the world, but I STILL want to know ROHN why...why can't BLUEDOG tell us the same things I did...do you see a risk ROHN in telling us her major or college...I mean seriously, is she hiding something or does she seriously not want to be made fun of, it is funny that when I give the info the jokes pile up but she won't give us anything to make jokes with not that I would make fun of a persons education anyway, I know this is old news but dude it is bull, she goes on about risks and everyone buys that!? There is no risk in that kind of info, it is so easy to make fun of someone all the while hiding in the darkness of anonymity, that is my point, I understand the opinions still have a point but c'mon, isn't it worth it to be real and just be true to your statements? "

The Question wrote on Mar 22, 2009 1:58 PM:

" The Republicans controlled the presidency for 20 of the last 28 years and both houses of Congress for 10 of the last dozen years, and would now please ask America to forget all that, along with the GOP legacy of deregulated financial fraud, international chaos, torture, domestic spying, fundamentalist lunacy, legalized kidnapping, no-bid no-performance crony capitalist contracts and their siphoning off of the nation's wealth from the working class and the middle class to their insatiable rich masters.
But if you can't quite manage total self-destructive amnesia, the Republicans would just LOVE IT if you would consider all that history a "gray area" in which the consequences of their actions cannot be discerned. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 22, 2009 2:15 PM:

" Did you read what Name Hidden wrote Mr. Miller? I don't bully others but I give back what I am given. As you know it says do unto others as they have done unto you. "

JR wrote on Mar 22, 2009 2:17 PM:

" Why are you bringing up Rush again?

I would have thought that bone had been worried quite enough. [No, I'm not a Rush Limbaugh fan, nor supporter.]

How does commenting on the Rush Limbaugh show further this discourse? I mean, seriously, you had me hoping for some discourse with your previous post -- then you slide right back into this futile tripe. It's a forum version of a non sequitur!

Don't tell me -- there will be another round of whose education is more complete and the whole poster anonymity equals unworthy opinions, won't there? [no, not singling you out for any other reason than you got in that last post, luck of the draw I suppose] "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 22, 2009 2:23 PM:

" To JR I don't know what you were refering to, I don't recall ever endorsing AIG, the bale out, bonuses or the like. I will say this however, folks are blaming Obama for something that he inherited. They also blamed Bush for something that started before he entered office, he did nothing to stop it and proabably helped it along. I think he was hoping until the end that the ship wouldn't sink until he had actually left office. Some of the blame goes to trickle down Reganomics. Some to ignoring human nature, greed rules. People don't do what is in their best interest for the long haul. Short term rules, get it now while the getting is good. Those that fear socialism have worse to fear than socialism. No-ism, a rudderless, sailless ship, which is about where we are. Our old economic system which worked for an industrial society needs to be changed for a new society, a non-industrial, non-agrarian but who knows what kind of society. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 22, 2009 2:38 PM:

" To JRussell, one other thing about bullies they usually blame their victims, "you made me do it". They will try and turn the tables and blame the victim for being a bully when the victim stands up for themself. Never backdown when forced to respend, claim the high ground, stick to your principles, get your facts straight, don't jump to conclusions, and know that when you are speaking up for those who can't or won't speak for themselves you are on the right side of history. It is the selfish and self-centered that lose one way or another in the end. "

ed miller wrote on Mar 22, 2009 5:57 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Mar 22, 2009 2:15 PM:
" Did you read what Name Hidden wrote Mr. Miller? I don't bully others but I give back what I am given. As you know it says do unto others as they have done unto you. "

Unless, I missed another post, it looked like he was bashing your stance on abortion. It was not a personal attack on your intelligence or likewise. "

ed miller wrote on Mar 22, 2009 6:00 PM:

" or actually Susan, i guess you answered your own question.

shumphreys wrote on Mar 22, 2009 2:15 PM:
" Did you read what Name Hidden wrote Mr. Miller? I don't bully others but I give back what I am given. As you know it says do unto others as they have done unto you. "

humphreys wrote on Mar 22, 2009 2:38 PM:
" To JRussell, one other thing about bullies they usually blame their victims, "you made me do it". "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 22, 2009 6:11 PM:

" (jrussell - "...and that's fine ROHN, I understand some don't agree and some do, it's the way of the world, but I STILL want to know ROHN why...why can't BLUEDOG tell us the same things I did...do you see a risk ROHN in telling us HIS major or college...")

I already explained all of this to you, jrussell.

If I revealed my alma mater and my field of study it would significantly increase my chances of exposure, and there is no way I'm going to risk that.

It doesn't matter if YOU can't see the risk in that. It's MY life not yours. I'll decide my own fate thank you.

You apparently haven't accomplished any career achievements as of yet, and you have nothing to lose.

I on the otherhand have plenty to lose.

So just admit it jrussell,

you foolishly shared personal information that I used as a source of ridicule and now you want revenge.

That's what your ranting is all about now, isn't it.

Revenge. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 22, 2009 6:13 PM:

" As long as Rush Limbaugh injects himself into the political scene on a daily basis, he is relevant. I realise that he's an embarrassment to a lot of Republicans, but he belongs to them, and he's not going to go away. "

BIZARRO ED wrote on Mar 22, 2009 6:26 PM:

" JR wrote on Mar 22, 2009 9:06 AM:
" Back to this AIG fiasco, as this could be a good case in point vis a vis the state stimulus packages -- while the bonuses are a bitter pill, what is being suggested (bills of attainder, forcing them to give back the money or summarily taxing it at 100 - 90%) is a direct attack upon another Constitutionally granted right: property and due process. Much as no one likes the fact that the money was given as bonuses, opening the door by allowing the government to take the money back is a slippery slope towards no citizen having property and due process."

Hah, another right-wing nutjob suckling on the corporate teat. I bet Bush and Cheney are probably on the board of AIG. Who cares about those rich guys? Let's take their money anyway we can. Rights, Schmights, who cares about the constitution? If our Congress voted to give them the money, it must be the right thing to do. Obama said we would would go through this spending line by line, so those crafty execs must have hid it from him somehow. Don't worry, Speaker Pelosi has got our best interests in mind. She won't let them get away with this. "

JR wrote on Mar 22, 2009 7:05 PM:

" Susan, you have made mention that "the AIG employees should be placed in prison" (that may not be verbatim, but it's pretty close) Why should they be placed in prison? For accepting those bonuses? Those bonuses were offered to them! Placing an arbitrary tax on them is wrong -- what is used against those people today, could be used against anyone else tomorrow; forcibly taking the bonuses back -- what is done to them today could set precedent to do that to anyone else tomorrow. That's not the sort of thing I personally want my government getting it into their heads that they can do.

As for socialism, Reaganomics, et al: I could discuss for a good portion of an evening where I thought Bush made a mistake, or where Reaganomics did not help, and very possibly set up this situation we are in now. I could also digress on the inherent system flaws in the capitalist system. Still, I think Churchhill was correct: capitalism is a bad system, but it's the best we've come up with so far. I have yet to see a society that has used socialism that has worked as well -- and socialism is not some magic panacea for corruption, greed, power mongering, and graft; in fact, judging from history socialism has produced some rather horrid institutions and atrocities on the citizens under it.

I would prefer to keep capitalism, work on the system of checks and balances that keep things like this current soup sandwich from happening, and hold to the ability to criticize the powers that be -- whoever they might be. And no, this administration so far has not impressed me with what they have done in response to what they have inherited (yes, I do realize no one ever starts with a clean slate, but I cannot at this point just give them a free pass; they have done things since in office, and so far it hasn't given me much confidence that those actions were the right decision).

Oh, and again, I'm not a Republican; I'm not particularly conservative either.
And I cannot believe people are giving so much thought to a conservative entertainer -- the man isn't making policy; he just comments on things...and that is his right, his freedom to do so. Take it away from him, and 12 - 20 years down the road what happens if the government in power then decides CNN or Democratic Underground must be silenced? It cuts both ways, and everyone should think before they support that. "

Bps wrote on Mar 22, 2009 7:20 PM:

" BIZARRO ED wrote on Mar 22, 2009 6:26 PM:
Hah, another right-wing nutjob suckling on the corporate teat. I bet Bush and Cheney are probably on the board of AIG. Who cares about those rich guys? Let's take their money anyway we can. Rights, Schmights, who cares about the constitution? If our Congress voted to give them the money, it must be the right thing to do. Obama said we would would go through this spending line by line, so those crafty execs must have hid it from him somehow. Don't worry, Speaker Pelosi has got our best interests in mind. She won't let them get away with this. "
---------------------------------------
When you look at the facts, it looks like folks from both parties were sucking on that AIG tit, but maybe the democrats where the prime piggys there:

American International Group: All Recipients
Among Federal Candidates, 2008 Cycle (top 20 only- it goes on much longer):

Obama, Barack (D-IL) Senate $104,332
Dodd, Chris (D-CT) Senate $103,900
McCain, John (R-AZ) Senate $59,499
Clinton, Hillary (D-NY) Senate $37,965
Baucus, Max (D-MT) Senate $24,750
Romney, Mitt (R) Pres $20,850
Biden, Joseph R Jr (D-DE)Senate$19,975
Larson, John B (D-CT) House $19,750
Sununu, John E (R-NH) Senate $18,500
Giuliani, Rudolph W (R) Pres $13,200
Kanjorski, Paul E (D-PA) House $12,000
Durbin, Dick (D-IL) Senate $11,000
Perlmutter, E G (D-CO) House $10,500
Rangel, Charles B (D-NY) House $9,000
Edwards, John (D) Pres $7,850
Corker, Bob (R-TN) Senate $7,400
Smith, Chris (R-NJ) House $6,900
Neal, Richard E (D-MA) House $6,500
Rockefeller, Jay (D-WV) Senate $6,500
Reed, Jack (D-RI) Senate $6,000

You can view the entire list here: http://tinyurl.com/cq72z5

Plus, we have the quote from Dodd who put the amendment in that allowed these stupid bonuses to be paid out:

Quote- Senate Banking Committee Chairman Christopher Dodd said the Obama administration asked him to insert a provision in last months $787 billion economic- stimulus legislation that had the effect of authorizing American International Group Inc.s bonuses.
Source:
http://tinyurl.com/clxpt3

As far as Pelosi quote- not letting them get away with it you might be right, she only got $500 from them bet shes real ticked at them.

Call me cynical, but does anyone but me think it is hard to believe any of these DC guys indignation is actually anything more than a show for the voters? "

The Question wrote on Mar 22, 2009 8:05 PM:

ed miller wrote on Mar 22, 2009 8:20 PM:

" The Question wrote on Mar 22, 2009 8:05 PM:
" Susan, you have made mention that "the AIG employees should be placed in prison" (that may not be verbatim, but it's pretty close) Why should they be placed in prison? For accepting those bonuses?
---
No, for engineering the multi-trillion-dollar "credit default swap" fraud that wrecked the world economy. "

Hey wait, I thought you said Bush wrecked the economy. Now it is AIG? "

BIZARRO ED wrote on Mar 22, 2009 9:15 PM:

" Dick Cheney has been using his considerable influence in Washington to push this record deficit spending and buying long term treasury bills. The inevitable plummet of the dollar will force OPEC to jack up oil prices to maintain profits. Cheney's oil companies will make billions. How come FOX news never reports that? "

The Question wrote on Mar 23, 2009 6:44 AM:

" Hey wait, I thought you said Bush wrecked the economy. Now it is AIG?
---
Bush had plenty of help from the ruthless plutocrats he so slavishly serves, Edward. Even though Bush is an obscene, sociopathic human disaster, he can't do everything by himself. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 23, 2009 7:55 AM:

" Cut the BS Mr. Miller. Examples speak louder than words. AND I choose to use examples and it seems to have worked a certain poster has stopped with unprovoked attacks. Perhaps you should try to learn the same lesson. "

Hammbone wrote on Mar 23, 2009 7:57 AM:

" I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the Socialists States of America,
And to the State of Control for which it stands,
one Nation under Obama, Invincible
with liberty and Injustice for all.

That's want it's coming to folks
you can candy coat it you can swallow it whole
When government control is involved in how buissnesses wages are
controled "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 23, 2009 8:01 AM:

" JR where did I make such a statement, on what thread. I don't recall making such a statement so please enlighten me. "

JR wrote on Mar 23, 2009 9:03 AM:

" And how did the credit default occur in the first place? Or should I say, what was one of the primary reasons for the credit default crisis?

This current mess cannot be narrowed down to a game of pin the tail on the donkey (or the elephant or the fatcat, as it were) -- there are many players here. It isn't black and white; would that it could be so simple as to just "blame Bush" -- but we can't just "blame Bush", and the current administration isn't pure and clean in this matter either. So I really am getting a bit tired of the "Rush! Cheney! Bush! Republican! Neocon!" rants. They are very short/narrow sighted, just as the rants of "Liberal! Democrat!" go in the other direction -- seems to me the blame is quite shared (although right now the Democrats seem to be getting off the hook with popular opinion, and that is very untrue -- they deserve to be held accountable as well). "

ed miller wrote on Mar 23, 2009 9:24 AM:

" shumphreys wrote on Mar 23, 2009 7:55 AM:
" Cut the BS Mr. Miller. Examples speak louder than words. AND I choose to use examples."

It's not BS. I did use an example. You criticized BDD for being a bully and attacking people when you, yourself insinuated that another poster had no intelligence. Is it only justified, when your side does it? "

The Question wrote on Mar 23, 2009 10:00 AM:

" As a friend of mine said, the ideal Republican future for the American working class and (soon to be nonexistent) middle class is endless toil, maximum burden and a quick, uncomplicated, inexpensive death.
Any time they claim differently, they are lying. Only the wealthy deserve human consideration in GOPland. "

BIZARRO ED wrote on Mar 23, 2009 10:13 AM:

" Well, I think Quinn is anti-poor. My neighbor was telling me, with the new cigarette taxes, his welfare money hardly covers his Harley payment and the rental on his HDTV. Thank goodness for the food bank and the WIC money from the mothers of his kids so he doesn't have that expense as well. Quinn needs to tax the rich fat cats in the state a larger chunk of their money since they can afford it. Just because my neighbor dropped out of school, doesn't mean he doesn't deserve what they have. Thank God Obama gets it. "

father bob wrote on Mar 23, 2009 10:56 AM:

" Hammbone wrote on Mar 23, 2009 7:57 AM:
"That's want it's coming to folks
you can candy coat it you can swallow it whole
When government control is involved in how buissnesses wages are
controled """"""

ok.....lets just let them continue their previous business practices. in which case you'd better be able to live off the land, and become a survivalist.....because the world economy will certainly collapse. "

Becky wrote on Mar 23, 2009 10:58 AM:

" Here's an excellent article in layman's terms as to what happened to the markets and what's still going on. I recommend everyone read it and then take a nice long walk to calm down. Once you get it, you'll realise that neither party is responsible...BOTH ARE!

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/26793903/the_big_takeover

"They cemented and formalized a political trend that has been snowballing for decades: the gradual takeover of the government by a small class of connected insiders, who used money to control elections, buy influence and systematically weaken financial regulations"

"The crisis was the coup de grce: Given virtually free rein over the economy, these same insiders first wrecked the financial world, then cunningly granted themselves nearly unlimited emergency powers to clean up their own mess."

A must read for any and all who think one party/one company/one person is responsible and exactly what's going on with OUR MONEY now!!!! "

Becky wrote on Mar 23, 2009 11:04 AM:

" HP says: "Sleaze abounds in both parties... "

Now you're finally getting it. We've been had, have been for years, continue to be had....by BOTH parties. We need NEW parties, new people, new election laws, new lobbying laws and lots and lots of tar a feathers. "

father bob wrote on Mar 23, 2009 11:24 AM:

" David Stockman bragged, back during the Reagan administration, that the goal of Republicans was to rack up such a huge federal debt that Democrats would never be able to push forward the "socialist" programs that Americans want, like stable Social Security and single-payer national health care. He called it "starving the beast." Grover Norquist suggested it would force government to become so small it could be "drowned in a bathtub," leaving the corporations in charge. George W. Bush actually, finally, made it happen.

Thus here we are, ten-plus trillion dollars in debt, and trying to blame our problems on Lynndie England and a few traders at AIG.

Let's call out and name the real criminals, and get about the simple and straightforward solutions of putting our country back together.

Roll back the Reagan tax cuts that have done so much damage over the past 28 years. Pull out of insane trade agreements. Re-regulate banks so they're functionally public utilities again. Give oversight to the SEC on all forms of speculative investment and bring back the .25 percent STET tax on each unit of investment vehicle traded.

None of this is rocket science. From 1937 until Ronald Reagan began his wrecking-ball efforts at the stability and solidity of our nation's economy, we didn't have a single bank panic. Reagan dropped income tax rates and the almost immediate result was a bubble and crash in the stock market followed by the S&L crisis, which has been repeated over and over again with startling regularity ever since (just as they were during the 150 years preceding Roosevelt putting into place the regulatory structures and high marginal income tax rates of the New Deal that stabilized us).

Republican President Dwight D. Eisenhower embraced a 91 percent top marginal tax rate on millionaires and billionaires and strong regulation of banks, including the STET tax, and the nation prospered.

It's time to return to sanity and quit swatting at the little guys, while the real criminals and thieves walk away with our nation and our wealth. "

The Question wrote on Mar 23, 2009 11:46 AM:

" As the taxpayer bailouts for billionaires continue to gush like Niagara, this is now absolutely clear. There are two standards in this country: One for the extremely wealthy, and another for us. "

JR wrote on Mar 23, 2009 11:49 AM:

" My apologies Shumphreys: it was actually "The Question" who made that comment (thread on Rush Limbaugh).

So my commentary should have been directed at this "Question" person -- but it could be redirected at anyone who holds the same views I suppose. "

Billie Brant wrote on Mar 23, 2009 12:51 PM:

" ed miller wrote on Mar 23, 2009 9:24 AM:

" shumphreys wrote on Mar 23, 2009 7:55 AM:
" Cut the BS Mr. Miller. Examples speak louder than words. AND I choose to use examples."

It's not BS. I did use an example. You criticized BDD for being a bully and attacking people when you, yourself insinuated that another poster had no intelligence. Is it only justified, when your side does it? "
_______________________________________

Here it is Ed , on this thread Susan Susan's little dig about another poster's intelligence or possible lack of it.

" You are absolutely right there Name Hidden, they need to develop an Intelligence test done in the first trimester so that those that don't measure up to minimal standards can be eliminated.I doubt that you would have made the cut.

The above reply was to this:

shumphreys wrote on Mar 20, 2009 3:05 PM:

" Folks will find anyone else to blame but themselves for the messes they get into. "

name_hidden_to_protect_the_innocent wrote on Mar 20, 2009 7:15 PM:

" That's right Shumphrey's...and if their mother's would have aborted them, we wouldn't have to listen to them to begin with. "

So Susan, let's see you benefit from your own wise words here which do have merit for all of us:

Susan says:
" Folks will find anyone else to blame but themselves for the messes they get into. " Back at cha dear. "

father bob wrote on Mar 23, 2009 1:03 PM:

" mrs. moose steps in it.....

Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin faced bipartisan criticism and an angry protest back home after deciding to reject federal stimulus funds. That might be why her Lieutenant Governor is now saying she didn't decide anything.

Lt. Gov. Sean Parnell showed up to deliver Palin's message - that she's not necessarily "rejecting" the money, but wants a public debate on how it's spent and whether it would cost the state in the long run.

Among the questions: Is the governor's team trying to have it both ways - saying "no" to the money while leaving the door open to spending it?

DNC spokesman Hari Sevugan comments: "We know when Governor Palin says "thanks but no thanks" she doesn't always mean it. We hope that's the case here, and she's changed her mind about denying the people of Alaska of half a billion dollars in recovery finds that could create thousands of jobs and help turn the economy around. But given her history on the subject, we're not hopeful." "

father bob wrote on Mar 23, 2009 2:26 PM:

" fox at it's worst....

http://tinyurl.com/cs36re "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 23, 2009 4:19 PM:

" father bob wrote on Mar 23, 2009 2:26 PM:

" fox at it's worst....

Do you think it's that sort of hateful drivel that makes our friend Tommy A say "thank God for Fox news"? That seems to be right up his alley.

About what we have come to expect from Fox, fb. As bad as this clip was, it's still not as bad as the one where one of their pundits (Liz Trotta) joked about Obama needing to be assassinated.

I've been told by a friend who was a regular on their Sunday morning financial shows that they pay dirt wages, so I guess they get what they pay for. I can't believe they pay much for those smirking morons that were on the clip you pointed out, fb. "

Billie Brant wrote on Mar 23, 2009 4:42 PM:

" fb, I hope I got the correct clip. I'm not the best at navigating on my PC sometimes. If it's Fox's Red Eye show you're referring to, I think it's a piece of crap show. It's not funny. Not at all. I don't know the name of the host and don't care to. Just listening to that stuff a couple of times was enough for me not to bother to find out. I checked it out a couple of times and that was it. I put that junk in the same catagory as Bill Maher's disgusting and feeble attempts at humor at the expense of those he hates on the right. Red Eye's excuse is it's humor as does Maher. I call it hateful from both shows.

While I'm at it, I'll add Rush and Ann Coulter to the list. While I tend to lean toward the conservative side these days, these people make my blood boil. Not all of us are enamored by them. "

The Question wrote on Mar 23, 2009 5:11 PM:

" I hope that everyone followed Glenn Beck's financial advice two weeks ago today. He suggested selling or avoiding stocks because of an upcoming "wealth-stealing bear market rally." I tell you, that man is a living prophet. And he cries more copiously than Shirley Temple. "

father bob wrote on Mar 23, 2009 5:20 PM:

" The Question wrote on Mar 23, 2009 5:11 PM:
" I hope that everyone followed Glenn Beck's financial advice two weeks ago today. He suggested selling or avoiding stocks because of an upcoming "wealth-stealing bear market rally." I tell you, that man is a living prophet. And he cries more copiously than Shirley Temple. """""

was that on "the war room"...i've heard that's a neoconservative radical hate-mongering nazi show that most republicans like. they can drink beer and clean their guns and get ready for the armed revolution. "

ed miller wrote on Mar 23, 2009 9:47 PM:

" I guess we have our new liberal scapegoat. Barney Fwank called Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia a homophobe". I guess since he is up to his armpits in the Fannie Mae and bailout messes and still hasn't lived down the gay prostitution ring that operated out of his apartment, if anyone needs a distraction, it is him. "

jrussell wrote on Mar 23, 2009 11:35 PM:

" That is fear talking BLUEDOG, it is ok, I understand it but I simply don't feel the same way about the risks you speak of, I have never considered any blogger to be dangerous and I think you simply don't want to be criticized but hey what can you do...life goes on "

father bob wrote on Mar 24, 2009 4:38 PM:

" ed miller wrote on Mar 23, 2009 9:47 PM:
" I guess we have our new liberal scapegoat. Barney Fwank called Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia a homophobe". I guess since he is up to his armpits in the Fannie Mae and bailout messes and still hasn't lived down the gay prostitution ring that operated out of his apartment, if anyone needs a distraction, it is him. """""

let's see......a gay politician calling another politician homophobic.

sounds like washington to me.....was anyone tapping their foot??? "

saintdanger wrote on Mar 24, 2009 4:53 PM:

" Good God, I don't know what's in the water, but I don't want to drink it if it will make me lose my mind and think like that. I'm sure that the last 8 years of tax cuts have sure made the economy great *note sarcasm*. Since the option is Nationalize large banks or let them FAIL, which do you pick? Also, the stock market just shot up liking what it heard. I'm all for what we have going. Jack, just go back to whatever dream world it was you were in, cause reality is going to be too much for you. "

The Question wrote on Mar 24, 2009 5:07 PM:

" The latest in echo chamber parrot talk: President Obama is "overexposed."
Yes, I'm sure Republicans -- and the corporate news media that carries their water -- have seen far too much of President Obama.
And I'll grieve over that on long winter evenings. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 24, 2009 5:38 PM:

" A tad off topic here, but has anyone looked at the jg-tc on line poll lately? Only two people have voted that they would like to see the state politicos get a raise. I guess that means that Dale and Chapin have voted, huh? lol! "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 24, 2009 6:15 PM:

" In the how dumb can you get category, guess who the Republicans have chosen to rebut Obama's speech. Would you believe Mr Bojangles. Yup, that's right, the same guy who made a laughing stock out of himself just a few weeks ago. They might do better with Joe the Plunger. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 24, 2009 6:22 PM:

" David Letterman puts the teleprompter debate in it's proper perspective, check out:

YouTube- Teleprompter vs no teleprompter Letterman's take

Absolutely hilarious..... "

sapient wrote on Mar 24, 2009 6:54 PM:

" 1. The American people elect a president with a total of 42 days experience as a U S Senator from the most politically corrupt state in America whose governor is ousted from office. The President's first official act is to close Gitmo and make sure Terrorists civil rights are not violated.

2. The U.S. Congress rushes to confirm an Attorney General, Eric Holder, whose law firm we later find out represents seventeen Gitmo terrorists.

3. The CIA Boss, Leon Penetta with absolutely no experience, has a
daughter Linda we find out, that is a true radical anti-American activist who is a supporter of all the Anti-American regimes in the western hemisphere.

4. We got the most corrupt female in
America as Secretary of State; bought and paid for.

5. We got a Tax Cheat for Treasury Secretary.

6. A Commerce Secretary nominee who withdrew due to corruption charges.

7. A Tax cheat nominee for Chief Performance Officer who withdrew under
charges.

8. A Labor Sec'y nominee who withdrew under charges of unethical conduct.

9. A Sec'y HHS nominee who withdrew under charges of cheating on his
taxes.

10. A stimulus bill is signed into law that will either bankrupt America or destroy its currency value.

11. House bill HR45 is introduced to disarm the American people.

12. Obama hires a law firm with a $500,000 retainer to protect his
birth certificate and college records from being disclosed to the American people.

13. Contemplation of nationalization of American banks by the Federal
Government.

ARE YOU STARTING TO GET IT?

And that's just the first month, but who's counting?! "

father bob wrote on Mar 24, 2009 8:18 PM:

" sapient wrote on Mar 24, 2009 6:54 PM:

"ARE YOU STARTING TO GET IT? """"

yep....you're another radical hillbilly "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 24, 2009 9:56 PM:

" OK fb explain that > "yep....you're another radical hillbilly "
Please do tell us of the 13 things Sapient said that is not correct?? What is so radical about it?? I will even give you a hand fb. Is there anyone in here that can help fb tell us which one and way any are wrong??
Except I think he should have said 2 Months not 1. "

Cognitus wrote on Mar 25, 2009 12:13 AM:

" JR"However, this administration knew of the bonuses, knew they were legal as per the wording of the bailout -- and there are those within the administration who recieved bonus money from AIG...."
I don't believe anyone in the Obama administration received bonus money from AIG.
If you do, NAME THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I await your list. "

Cognitus wrote on Mar 25, 2009 12:26 AM:

" Sapient:"10. A stimulus bill is signed into law that will either bankrupt America or destroy its currency value."
When GWBush came into office we had a SURPLUS in the budget; which he destroyed by tax cuts and a medicare drug bill written by the pharmaceutical companies.
=======================================
sapient:"12. Obama hires a law firm with a $500,000 retainer to protect his
birth certificate and college records from being disclosed to the American people."
He did??? OK, that's easy. If you know that to be true NAME THE LAW FIRM, and give its address!!!!! Put up the name or admit you're just repeating conservative gossip.
I AWAIT YOUR REPLY.......... "

Cognitus wrote on Mar 25, 2009 12:35 AM:

" HPotter:"" There was plenty of outrage on Capitol Hill last week over the executive bonuses paid out by AIG after getting federal bailout money. But another money trail could make voters just as angry: the campaign dollars to members of Congress from banks and firms that have received billions via the Troubled Asset Relief Program."

Harry this is just a SAMPLE of our corrupt CORPORATIONS who have corrupted Congress. Consider that Billy Tauzin who pushed the Medicare D drug bill thru Congress for the drug companies
then left Congress for a lobbyist job for the drug companies at $2 1/2 million a year with a $100 million budget for lobbying. You'll see the effect of that $100 million when the health care bill comes up in Congress.

The disappointing thing is that nobody complained then about the corrupt practices that brought about the drug bill -- where the cost of drugs nearly doubles every year, where the government is forbidden to "bid" to lower prices ..... but everybody is outraged at the AIG bonuses. Those are trivial compared to the profits of the drug companies to whom the retired people in the country were "sold" by GWBush and the Republicans. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 25, 2009 7:20 AM:

" I found sapient's (a real misnomer of a posting name) list interesting. Many of the items seem to be nothing more than uninformed opinions, and sour grapes.

For anyone interested in a FACTUAL list of political scandals, and not just whining sour grapes, Google: Hugh's list of Bush scandals.

By comparison, this list makes sappy's whining little hissy fit of a list look rather anemic.

I would cut and paste the list on here, but it's too long. It's about the most comprehensive list I've ever seen on the scandals surrounding the Bush years.

Every time someone starts talking about the Obama administration being corrupt, I have to laugh, because it's usually someone who defended the most corrupt administration of the century, like our friend sappy. "

ed miller wrote on Mar 25, 2009 8:51 AM:

" In the NY Times OP-ED section, there is a letter from an AIG employee. Read it here

http://tinyurl.com/c4hvmw

Some of these people are hard working Americans like the rest of us and have been vilified by the government to mask their own incompetence. Maybe they might make more money than the rest of us, but some of them are being unfairly punished. Congress knew about the bonuses when they handed out the money. Only when caught, did they try to focus the rage on the recipients. Our government is out of control.

R.I.P. American Dream. "

ed miller wrote on Mar 25, 2009 9:12 AM:

" Hey Harry, why don't you cut and place all the Bush scandals and screw ups in the fist two months of his tenure and compare that to Obama. Then compare the debt that he racked up in his whole eight years that Obama has already topped. Hey, no big deal. Our economy is in the tank and we are fighting two wars, but we still have time to yuck it up on Leno, right? Nothing better to do. "

jrussell wrote on Mar 25, 2009 9:12 AM:

" ed miller wrote on Mar 25, 2009 8:51 AM:

" In the NY Times OP-ED section, there is a letter from an AIG employee. Read it here

http://tinyurl.com/c4hvmw

Some of these people are hard working Americans like the rest of us and have been vilified by the government to mask their own incompetence. Maybe they might make more money than the rest of us, but some of them are being unfairly punished. Congress knew about the bonuses when they handed out the money. Only when caught, did they try to focus the rage on the recipients. Our government is out of control.

R.I.P. American Dream. "

...the American dream: hypocrisy, the elite, brutality, arrogance, money, money, money, money "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 25, 2009 9:21 AM:

" He did??? OK, that's easy. If you know that to be true NAME THE LAW FIRM, and give its address!!!!! Put up the name or admit you're just repeating conservative gossip.
I AWAIT YOUR REPLY.......... "

Conservative gossip? Yup, you're right on that one, Cognitus.

And he didn't even have the decency to credit the source of his list either. I somehow doubt that sappy thought all that up by himself. "

The Question wrote on Mar 25, 2009 10:03 AM:

" Boo hoo. The arrogant AIG execs can cry me a river, Edward. They're working for a company that wrecked the economy with its fraudulent "credit default swaps" and is on billion-dollar taxpayer life support, so they deserve LESS THAN NOTHING. "

father bob wrote on Mar 25, 2009 10:03 AM:

" ed miller wrote on Mar 25, 2009 8:51 AM:
"R.I.P. American Dream. """""

as the republican rightwingers say eddie: "love it or leave it"

i hope you've applied for your passport. "

father bob wrote on Mar 25, 2009 10:07 AM:

" hehehehehehe.....it's ok eddie, the next 8-16 years will go by sooooo slowly for you. you'll be able to relish every second, every minute, every hour as the clock slowly ticks away. "

The Question wrote on Mar 25, 2009 10:17 AM:

" Heres the kind of helpful financial advice you get from CNBC host Larry Kudlow:
"Too much is being made of both the sub-prime credit problem and the housing downturn." [Nov. 21, 2007]
"The recession debate is over. It's not gonna happen. Time to move on." [Dec. 5, 2007]
"There's no recession coming. The pessimistas were wrong. It's not going to happen." [Dec. 7, 2007]
"We are in a slow patch. That's all. It's nothing to get up in arms about." [Feb. 5, 2008]
"The reality is a possible upturn in the housing trend, and at the very least we are getting a bottom." [July 24, 2008].
If you think that the free financial advice in the corporate media is being offered for the benefit of the people who dont pay for it, you are far, far too foolish to survive in this world. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 25, 2009 11:29 AM:

" ed miller wrote on Mar 25, 2009 9:12 AM:

" Hey Harry, why don't you cut and place all the Bush scandals and screw ups in the fist two months of his tenure and compare that to Obama.

Actually Bush was on vacation for his first two months, kind of hard to screw anything up when you're down in Texas cutting brush and shooting jackrabbits, eddie.

So I take it you read the Bush list, huh eddie? What did you think?

And by the way, what does cut and place mean? After seeing that one, I think the list must have really gotten you flustered.

Relax a little eddie, if you're gonna dish it out you need to learn how to take it without getting all worked up. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 25, 2009 11:58 AM:

" i hope you've applied for your passport. "

Rumor has it that houses are going pretty cheap in Juarez, fb. Think they might take our war hero in? "

JR wrote on Mar 25, 2009 12:03 PM:

" Cogitus -- look under "campaign contributions" and follow the money trail

Also -- search articles written concerning the AIG bonus: there appears to be evidence that current Treasury Sec. Timothy Geithner worked on the initial bailout of AIG, which most likely included knowledge of their employee bonus contracts; why, if he was one of the people who was working on the bailout, do these bonuses become such a suprise? And, Chris Dodd has stated (this from a CNBC site) that Obama administration officials asked him to add language to the bailout that would make sure the bonuses stayed in place. If that is the case, then why the act of shock and outrage now?

Personally, I think AIG should have gone the Chap. 11 route and not gotten a bailout, but my elected officials thought otherwise. I refuse to join in the outrage over the bonuses due to one very important thing: any attempt to arbitrarily tax or "get back" the bonuses falls into the realm of bills of attainder, and those are unconstitutional, and not a road I want my government going down (this goes way beyond a "rich man, poor man" thing. Besides, I'm a bit upset with my government that they allowed this boondoggle to transpire -- and they did; thus setting up a situation that cuts away at constitutionally granted rights -- and thus could affect anyone, including me and you. "

even steven wrote on Mar 25, 2009 1:18 PM:

" As usual when visiting this site, I see the resident lefty posters spewing their typical leftist drivel, but then I noticed one of these idiots actually posted something from the Huffingon Post. Hahahaha... and they snivel about Fox news! That's just rich. These halfwits post on here 24/7. They must be state workers or unemployed. No wonder they are democrat lickspittles who don't bother to think for themselves. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 25, 2009 1:39 PM:

" The Brady Bunch wannabe, little Bobby appeared to crawl into bed with Rush Limbaugh last night.

That might have been a tad early for that, but apparently Jindal thinks the way to the White House is to go totally right wing. Perhaps Bobby was paying Rush back for coming to his rescue when everyone else was pointing out how terrible his first speech was. Of course this will make the Ditto-heads ecstatic, but it may back fire, if enough Republicans ever get up enough guts to denounce the moronic drug addict Limbaugh. Bobby may have shown his cards a bit too early. Even the lame brained Palin is smart enough to stay on the fence at this time. It's apparent that her handlers have told her to shut up and just do her job for the time being.

And where's old Joe the Plunger in all this. Has his star started to dull already? I'm going to miss his brilliant ed miller-like comments of the state of the nation.

Just think of this, the biggest starts in the GOP at this time are Limbaugh, Jindal, Palin and Joe the Plunger. Wow! Very impressive bunch!

Take out Jindal, and you probably have a combined IQ of 85 among the rest. lol! "

The Question wrote on Mar 25, 2009 2:17 PM:

" Sociocomufascislamicism!!!
Look out fer them there "isms," Mabel! They'll git cha! "

father bob wrote on Mar 25, 2009 3:28 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Mar 25, 2009 1:39 PM:
"Just think of this, the biggest starts in the GOP at this time are Limbaugh, Jindal, Palin and Joe the Plunger. Wow! Very impressive bunch!

Take out Jindal, and you probably have a combined IQ of 85 among the rest. lol! """"

thing is HP....they're all totally irrelevant. all they can do is stand around and mess their diapers straining to make some sort of noise. and bobby jingles is.....well.....he may as well sell fuller brushes or get a schwan route. he's almost as exciting as milk toast "

ed miller wrote on Mar 25, 2009 6:04 PM:

" The Barack Obama Amateur Hour continues today, with Treasury Secretary Tim Literally The Only Man Who Can Do The Job Geithner speaking at the Council of Foreign Relations today. A panelist asked Geithner about Chinas call to move away from the US dollar and to create a new strategic reserve currency based on international organizations. Geithner said that sounded great, and got the utterly predictable result... The U.S. Dollar has collapsed against the Euro, Japanese Yen and other major currencies.

Heckuva job Timmy! "

middle of road wrote on Mar 25, 2009 6:25 PM:

" Hey ed miller, how about telling the whole story? This is how both the far right and the far left tell only portions of a story to manipulate information.

Geithner: Dollar is 'dominant reserve currency'
NEW YORK (AP) The dollar was mixed against major currencies Wednesday, partially recovering from a plunge after Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner said the greenback will remain the world's ``dominant reserve currency.''
The dollar initially tumbled after Geithner, responding to a question about a recent essay by the head of China's central bank, said the U.S. was ``quite open'' to an increase in the use of the IMF's ``Special Drawing Rights.'' SDRs are a basket of currencies made up of the euro, yen, pound and dollar that have served, in limited use, as a reserve asset since 1969.
In his article, China's Central Bank Gov. Zhou Xiaochuan recommended creating an expanded reserve currency made up of a basket of major currencies and controlled by the International Monetary Fund.
Geithner's ``off-the-cuff, impromptu remark touched a nerve in the market,'' said Brian Dolan, a currency strategist at Forex.com. ``The dollar is under suspicion due to a potential devaluation effect'' from the flood of money the U.S. government is injecting into the system to help unfreeze credit markets.
``Any comment of the treasury secretary distancing itself from (the dollar as) reserve status is a major blow,'' Dolan said.
The greenback, however, mostly returned to its levels before the plunge after Geithner, in response to questions asking him to clarify his stance, said ``the dollar remains the world's dominant reserve currency. I think that's likely to continue for a long period of time.'' "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 25, 2009 7:26 PM:

" From Condy Rice:

"My view is we got to do it our way; we did our best. We did some things well, some things not so well. Now, they get their chance. And I agree with the president. We owe them our loyalty and our silence while they do it. Because I know what it's like to have people chirping at you when they perhaps don't know what's going on inside. These are quality people. I know them. They love the country. And they won't make the same decisions, perhaps, that we did. But I believe they'll do what they think is best for the country and I'll give my advice privately and keep it to myself."

Huffington post-

Unlike Cheney, Rice shows some class. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 25, 2009 7:32 PM:

" even steven wrote on Mar 25, 2009 1:18 PM:

" As usual when visiting this site, I see the resident lefty posters spewing their typical leftist drivel, but then I noticed one of these idiots actually posted something from the Huffingon Post. Hahahaha... and they snivel about Fox news! That's just rich.

Actually the Huffington (not Huffingon) post is a compilation from all sorts of sources, both right and left even, and even Fox news at times. But when you only stay glued to Fox 24/7 you wouldn't know that. Just as you usually do when you post, you get it all wrong. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 25, 2009 7:46 PM:

" Hillary Clinton acknowledged that part of the problem with Mexican drugs is that the USA has an insatiable appetite for Mexico's drugs. Of course Limbaugh tried to spin it that she was bashing this country. But I guess that when it comes to illegal drug issues Limbaugh is a little sensitive. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 25, 2009 7:52 PM:

" thing is HP....they're all totally irrelevant. all they can do is stand around and mess their diapers straining to make some sort of noise. and bobby jingles is.....well.....he may as well sell fuller brushes or get a schwan route. he's almost as exciting as milk toast "

I totally agree fb, but apparently Bo Jangles is the best they have. Perhaps eddie miller could enlighten us as to who should be the GOP front runner. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 25, 2009 8:10 PM:

" Heckuva job Timmy! "

While you man not agree with him, eddie, at least he has the right background unlike the guy you chose to use in your ongoing attempt to smear Obama.

Just a reminder, the guy Bush put in charge of FEMA (old heck of a job Brownie) came with a background in race horses.

Seriously ed, this is too easy and I'm starting to feel sorry for you. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 26, 2009 8:06 AM:

" Whats wrong with a back ground in race horses?? The Governor that you all said was good owned and raced horses, I know for a FACT because one of mine won the race easily the day he was standing there with a group of people telling them how easy his horse would win the race. LMAO @ Edgar. "

The Question wrote on Mar 26, 2009 10:04 AM:

" One correction, Harry. A FAILED background in race horses, a field completely unrelated to the important emergency management position in which he also failed so spectacularly.
Brownie's string of dismal failures did not rival Bush's, of course, but then that's a pretty high bar. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 26, 2009 10:34 AM:

" Are you sure about that Rohn? I know that Edgar's traveling schedule was tied to areas that had race tracks. I know he was big into betting on horse racing, but I wasn't aware that he actually owned any horses. "

The Question wrote on Mar 26, 2009 10:43 AM:

" Sarah Palin first said she'd turned down $288 million of the $930.7 million that her state is due in the federal stimulus.
Then she had her budget director say she DIDNT say that. "The governor has not rejected any funds -- that I think was perhaps the interpretation and I know certainly in some of the coverage of the press event last week," Karen Rehfeld, the governor's budget director, told the House Finance Committee.
Then Palin AGAIN said that she WAS turning down the money and in essence we say no to operating funds for more positions in government."
If you fans of the Winkins Withc of Wasilla can figure out what shes doing, let her know, will you? She needs all the help she can get.
I think I have the solution myself. Palin intends to grab all the federal swag she can, and then pretend she didnt. As usual. "

ed miller wrote on Mar 26, 2009 11:48 AM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Mar 25, 2009 8:10 PM:
" Heckuva job Timmy! "

While you man not agree with him, eddie, at least he has the right background unlike the guy you chose to use in your ongoing attempt to smear Obama"

So, cheating on your taxes gives you the right background? "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 26, 2009 12:18 PM:

" Yes Harry I am 100% positive. He was also very upset LMAO.
They raced together at Fairmount Park, in Collinsville.
It was on May 12th 1998.
He owned several horses racing mainly in Chicago. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 26, 2009 12:26 PM:

" So, cheating on your taxes gives you the right background? "

No eddie. Now try to keep up with me on this one; making errors on your taxes is not the same as cheating. Now which of Obama's nominees has been accused of actually cheating on their taxes?

No fair using Fox as a source, because we all know they lie about everything dealing with the Democratic party. "

father bob wrote on Mar 26, 2009 12:51 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Mar 25, 2009 7:52 PM:
"I totally agree fb, but apparently Bo Jangles is the best they have. Perhaps eddie miller could enlighten us as to who should be the GOP front runner. """""

it would be entertaining to see who eddie bows down to. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 26, 2009 3:26 PM:

" it would be entertaining to see who eddie bows down to. "

My bet would be Palin, she seems the type he would be impressed with.

Come on eddie, inquiring minds want to know. "

The Question wrote on Mar 26, 2009 3:43 PM:

" Whatever his flaws, Obama is light years smarter, more honest and more compassionate than any presidential candidate offered by the Republican Party in this century. There is literally no contest.
For years the right wingers worshipped Bush while his corruption and lies systematically brought this nation to ruin.
For years, the right wingers lectured us about how, despite all the evidence to the contrary, the Chimpanzee in Chief was as smart as Lincoln and as brave as Batman, and meant what he said and said what he meant. They assured us that, just as Bush claimed, the voice of God spoke through him, and gave him those infallible gut instincts and whims that he used to govern so wisely.
And yet, for a long time now, they have been terribly quiet about that. I haven't heard the right wingers review their simian savior's great qualities in a long, long time.
I'm afraid they are starting to fade in my mind. List them again for me, please, right wingers. I'd love to hear them. "

father bob wrote on Mar 26, 2009 3:51 PM:

" it's getting more interesting by the day. there really isnt anything new coming out of the republicans, just reruns of 1930s germany.

they turned the country into a giant toilet and pulled the lever. now they are grabbing at any piece of crap they can to avoid the final swirl. it is sort of ironic that most of the logs floating by are their own. "

father bob wrote on Mar 26, 2009 3:57 PM:

" here ya go eddie boy!!! more tax cuts for the rich and famous!!!....broght to you by guess who??!!! your fine upstanding republican party!!!

Pressed By MSNBC, Pence Is Unable To Say What Deficit Would Be Under New GOP Budget

Earlier this week, President Obama challenged Republicans who have been ripping his budget proposal, saying, Critics tend to criticize, but they dont offer an alternative budget. Today, House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH) released a GOP budget called The Republican Road to Recovery. Here it is, Mr. President, he said, proudly waving it in the air.

Except this budget is short on one key detail: numbers. The AP calls it a glossy pamphlet short on detail and long on campaign-style talking points. The budget proposes heavy tax cuts to the wealthy, which have time and again exploded the deficit. Today, MSNBCs Norah ODonnell challenged Rep. Mike Pence (R-IN) to say what the deficit impact of the GOP plan would be. Pence awkwardly tried to change the subject:

Q: So you dont have the numbers now? About what youre plan would be in terms of how it would cut the deficit or add to the deficit? You dont have any numbers on that?

PENCE: Well, its really a broad when the White House a few minutes ago was attacking the numbers in this bill, the tax cut numbers. Theres plenty of numbers in the Republican recovery plan. And we just really believe the Presidents plan to raise taxes by nearly 2 trillion dollars on almost every Americandeserves a debate on Capitol Hill.

Without details, how is your plan credible? asked ODonnell. Well, I thought through this morning, we didnt have a plan, so it may be progress our plan is being attacked, Pence responded. This is the broad outline, he said, stating that the GOP would introduce a bill soon. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 26, 2009 4:18 PM:

" The budget proposes heavy tax cuts to the wealthy, which have time and again exploded the deficit.

What? More tax cuts for the super wealthy? I really shocked.... lol! "

father bob wrote on Mar 26, 2009 4:25 PM:

" i shudder to think how the mccain-palin team would handle such a huge economic problem.

neither have the IQ of a bowling ball....and hey, we've seen how that play ends. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 26, 2009 4:32 PM:

" Media Matters caught radio-blowhard Rush Limbaugh referring to MSNBC anchors Melissa Francis and Contessa Brewer as "info babes."

Limbaugh quickly "corrected" himself and went with "anchors...

Recently it was reported that Limbaugh was using focus groups try to find out why women didn't like him.

Well Rush, you don't need a focus group for that, it's real simple, you're a chauvinist pig. "

oldschool wrote on Mar 26, 2009 10:47 PM:

" Recently it was reported that Limbaugh was using focus groups try to find out why women didn't like him.

Well Rush, you don't need a focus group for that, it's real simple, you're a chauvinist pig. "

Potter...if this is true, then do tell....what is Clinton? "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 27, 2009 7:05 AM:

" Potter...if this is true, then do tell....what is Clinton? "

Huh?

What Clinton are you're talking about?

Would that be Hillary, Bill, Roger, Dewitt or the Clinton power plant or maybe even the Clinton small engine manufacturer?

Please be more specific with your requests. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 27, 2009 8:53 AM:

" Hey Oldschool don't Knock Bill Clinton remember it is he in his great wisdom that told us guys and their wives that it is not called sexual relations. So that legitimized it. :-P "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 27, 2009 9:03 AM:

" I set and watch all of the Dem and Repub bashers in here, its funny as all get out.
But for the Repub bashers I am betting that Obamas taking over of private companies is also worrying you guys and gals. He is entering what looks to be a bad area. Let the auto fail, the next ones might be better. Let them all fail, America will pick up the pieces and continue, just like we did on 9-11. The Government cant take care of all they have on their plates now, adding the private entities, will make the Government even less able to do their duties. "

ed miller wrote on Mar 27, 2009 11:57 AM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Mar 26, 2009 12:26 PM:
" No eddie. Now try to keep up with me on this one; making errors on your taxes is not the same as cheating."

Sorry, Let me reword that. We have a guy who can't figure out how to pay his own taxes in charge of our money. Is that better? "

ed miller wrote on Mar 27, 2009 12:02 PM:

" I do not "bow down" to any man. I certainly don't have on the political party blinders that you possess. I have voted Libertarian for quite a while. In the last election, I didn't care much for Bob Barr, but it was more a vote against the the other parties who have been dragging this country down, for quite sometime. "

ed miller wrote on Mar 27, 2009 12:08 PM:

" Ok father bob, if you expected me to argue the merits of the GOP budget, then I am sorry to disappoint you. I think taxes should be fair and equal for all Americans, regardless of their income. You can rip on the GOP budget proposal all you want, but please explain how the unprecedented trillions in debt that the Democrats plan to rack up will be anything but devastating for the nation in the long run. I see quite a few of you still ripping Bush's policies, but no one will step up and say what a great job the current bunch of incompetent boobs are doing. "

ed miller wrote on Mar 27, 2009 12:14 PM:

" father bob wrote on Mar 20, 2009 9:23 AM:
" you want the next generation to pick up the tab jack?.....oh yeah, i guess you do, what am i thinking!.. "

So, what will be the deficits under Obama's plan again? Please remind us. "

The Question wrote on Mar 27, 2009 12:37 PM:

" On Wednesday, Rep. Michele Bachmann (R-MN) appeared on Sean Hannity's radio show and repeated her calls for "revolution" in America, warning against the imminent dangers of "tyranny" under President Obama.
Republicans, the Disloyal Opposition, looking to overthrow the republic. Ironic, that. "

ed miller wrote on Mar 27, 2009 12:41 PM:

" father bob wrote on Mar 26, 2009 4:25 PM:
" i shudder to think how the mccain-palin team would handle such a huge economic problem.'

So how's YOUR TEAM done? Why don't you ever say anything on here to praise the mountains of debt that they are racking up? Who gives a crap about Limbaugh or Sarah Palin. They are not the ones mortgaging this country to the Chinese. YOUR TEAM has been racking up unprecedented debt and just throwing money at any perceived problem with no oversight and pretending to be shocked when they find out how it was spent. "

father bob wrote on Mar 27, 2009 1:00 PM:

" ed miller wrote on Mar 27, 2009 12:41 PM:
" They are not the ones mortgaging this country to the Chinese. YOUR TEAM has been racking up unprecedented debt and just throwing money at any perceived problem with no oversight and pretending to be shocked when they find out how it was spent. """""

eddie, once again you expose your fiscal buffoonery.

what the past 100 days has been about is getting a handle on just how bad bush and his thieves left us hanging. another day passes and more debt shows up....and if i recall correctly eddie, george wtf? bush was the borrower of 9.5 trillion...that's trillion with a "T" from china.

you just keep living in your bubble...your handlers will feed you more garbage to spew. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 27, 2009 1:05 PM:

" Mr. Miller what is a fair tax for someone who makes $50,000 a year compared to someone who makes $500,000 per year? Don't you think the person making $500,000 could do with one less car in their household in order to pay a bit more on their tax? When the difference is between food on the table and luxury goods, what do you think is fair? "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 27, 2009 1:05 PM:

" Republicans, the Disloyal Opposition, looking to overthrow the republic. Ironic, that. "

Shades of the FDR years, TQ! Any good student of history knows that the GOP plotted an overthrow of the FDR administration too. It seems the wanted to establish a Fascist type goverment. Fortunately for us, the guy they picked to lead this revolution ratted the traitors out. And we all know who one of the traitors was, even though he only held a minor position: Prescott Bush. "

ed miller wrote on Mar 27, 2009 2:03 PM:

" Bush did not rack up 9.5 trillion in new debt, and even if he did, does that excuse the current administration to to spend even more? That figure is almost the whole debt when Bush left office. He was responsible for 3 or 4 of it.

Susan, everyone paying an equal percentage is fair, period. You forget the same percentage of a rich person's money is still more money. How many people's jobs depend on that rich guy having his extra car? Who is going to use the money more efficiently, the citizens or the government? "

The Question wrote on Mar 27, 2009 2:15 PM:

" Fortunately for us, the guy they picked to lead this revolution ratted the traitors out. And we all know who one of the traitors was, even though he only held a minor position: Prescott Bush.
---
Yes, That family has quite a pedigree in evil, Harry. They've been trying to destroy this nation's Constitution for the better part of a century. Came close with the simian savior, too. "

Bps wrote on Mar 27, 2009 4:34 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Mar 27, 2009 1:05 PM:
" Mr. Miller what is a fair tax for someone who makes $50,000 a year compared to someone who makes $500,000 per year? Don't you think the person making $500,000 could do with one less car in their household in order to pay a bit more on their tax? When the difference is between food on the table and luxury goods, what do you think is fair? "
----------------------------
I know this wasnt asked to me but heres my 2 cents:

How about replace the atrocity we have now with a NATIONAL SALES TAX?

Here are a few of the arguments for it:

Quote-

There would be no tax forms for citizens to fill out.

It would eliminate the need for the IRS (huge cost savings).

The Treasury could handle Tax revenues.

It would be administered just like current state sales taxes.

The current cost of tax compliance is estimated at $600 billion a year.

It is estimated the national sales tax will only cost businesses $1-5 billion per year.

It would collect taxes from everyone living in this country, including aliens, illegal aliens, and the underground cash economy adding billions of dollars to the nation's treasury.

If there is a rebate, based on family size, low income families will in effect pay no tax at all up through the poverty level. In addition, only new things are taxed (not used ones).

Read the pros and cons at this link: http://www.youdebate.com/DEBATES/TAX_NATIONAL_SALES.HTM "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 28, 2009 7:49 AM:

" CBS/AP) A former State Department lawyer tells The Associated Press that the Bush administration panicked after 9/11 and tortured prisoners.

Former President George W. Bush denied anyone was tortured. But Vijay Padmanabhan is at least the second insider to publicly describe as torture the so-called "enhanced interrogation techniques" used by the U.S.

Padmanabhan was the department's chief counsel on Guantanamo litigation. He says it was "foolish" for the Bush administration to declare that detainees were beyond the reach of U.S. and international laws and the Geneva Conventions.

He told the AP Friday that "Guantanamo was one of the worst overreactions of the Bush administration."

While I agree that this embarrassing stain on our country was an overreaction by the Bush administration. I think an even bigger overreaction occurred: the invasion and occupation of a country that had nothing to do with 9/11.

It appears the President Obama is rectifying that error with his increased efforts in Afghanistan, a job that many feel was left undone.

And hats off to George Bush and Condoleezza Rice for not sniping at Obama. They have shown a lot more class than the unrepentant Cheney who has become even more of an embarrassment to his party with ongoing bitter and often times childish remarks. No wonder some key Republicans are asking Cheney to shut up and go away. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 28, 2009 8:14 AM:

" Today UPS announced it will stop advertising on OReillys show. Here is the statement UPS emailed out just moments ago:

Thank you for sending an e-mail expressing concern about UPS advertising during the Bill OReilly show on FOX News. We do consider such comments as we review ad placement decisions which involve a variety of news, entertainment and sports programming. At this time, we have no plans to continue advertising during this show.

from the Huffingtonpost-

Good for UPS. O'Reillys over the top harassing style is getting out of control. Sending camera crews out to the homes of those you disagree with is a bit much, even for Fox news. If they start losing advertising dollars over this idiot, they might finally put a muzzle on Billo the clown.

Borrowing a phrase from our friend Tom Andres, thank God for those who stand up to Fox news and their unethical journalistic standards. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 28, 2009 9:12 AM:

" Thanks Bps that is the kind of thoughtful, alternative view that needs to be expressed and considered. I think that the taxes on food and medicine should be smaller (or eliminated) than the tax on luxury goods/non essentials. But that presents a problem as well. Is caviar food or a luxury item? And what about toilet paper? "

The Question wrote on Mar 28, 2009 12:09 PM:

" OUCH for Bill O'Reilly. I know how those right-wing nasties worship money, and hate to get stung right in the wallet. LOL. "

The Question wrote on Mar 28, 2009 12:10 PM:

" Torture is something more than "foolish." It is unrelentingly evil. Thanks to right wingers, in the United States, we have endorsed torture, spying on innocent citizens, permanent imprisonment without trial, the occupation and subjugation of other countries, gang rape cover-ups, official lies about supposed "friendly fire" murders, private death squads and American secret police. We think it's all right just as long as we as we don't call them that.
Maybe you Christians should ask your Jesus his views about the use of torture. Let me know what he says, will you? "

Bps wrote on Mar 28, 2009 2:05 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Mar 28, 2009 9:12 AM:
" Thanks Bps that is the kind of thoughtful, alternative view that needs to be expressed and considered. I think that the taxes on food and medicine should be smaller (or eliminated) than the tax on luxury goods/non essentials. But that presents a problem as well. Is caviar food or a luxury item? And what about toilet paper? "

-----------------------------
Glad uyou found it of interest and good questions.

I felt much like you when I first found reference to it. It seems like it could be simple yet made fair.

Although it would be better if it was one rate for everything, a case could be made for no charge or a much lower rate on things that are really the necessities of life:

Fuel for cars, trucks, etc.
Medicines & Medical Care
Home Heating Products
Electricity
Food- groceries, bulk stores (but I think Prepared Foods should be taxed)
etc.

If there was a reasonable National Sales Tax on foods- luxury type items prices are normally considerably higher. Ff for simplicity the tax would be at the same rate, it results in a larger end amount. So in the case of caviar:

Assumption- National Sales tax for food items 8% (arbitrary random pick)

Caviar $400.00 can Tax $32.00
TP $6.00 Tax $ .48

To be fair, if foods are taxed the program would have to include an allowance for low income (like food card) with a monthly recharge on the food card.

Since the Sales Tax would replace a non-subsidized person's income tax, they would have that amount in their paychecks to spend as they make purchases.

When I first ran across this concept I was attracted to it because the lower income people buy less and cheaper, so they would pay less in taxes; the higher someones income is typically they purchase more and tend to buy things of higher prices so they pay more.

Couple that with the fact it would tax all purchase so all the illegal monies being spent would be taxed when ever the perpetrator buys something

The huge savings of getting rid of the IRS system (including their courts) and it looks better and better. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 28, 2009 9:25 PM:

" (AP) A Spanish court has agreed to consider opening a criminal case against six former Bush administration officials, including former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, over allegations they gave legal cover for torture at Guantanamo Bay, a lawyer in the case said Saturday.

Human rights lawyers brought the case before leading anti-terror judge Baltasar Garzon, who agreed to send it on to prosecutors to decide whether it had merit, Gonzalo Boye, one of the lawyers who brought the charges, told The Associated Press.

The ex-Bush officials are Gonzales; former undersecretary of defense for policy Douglas Feith; former Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff David Addington; Justice Department officials John Yoo and Jay S. Bybee; and Pentagon lawyer William Haynes.

Hey why not? Don't forget Bush senior kidnapped the Panamanian dictator Noriega, and brought him here for trial. If it's OK for us to prosecute and imprison officials of other countries, why can't they do they same to our officials?

It's really sad that a foreign court is considering doing what our own courts should be doing. "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 29, 2009 10:30 AM:

" Bps there is something to the proposal I wonder if any others have given it any thought? It would certainly reach everyone, rich/poor, legal/illegal, citizen/tourist.AND all groups use the services such a tax could finance: food, drug and product safety, health care, infrastructure (roads, bridges, airports, rail)..... "

The Question wrote on Mar 29, 2009 10:48 AM:

" Yes, Harry. It would be nice to see that corrupt little Bush toady Gonzales in prison for the rest of his wretched existence, for starters. "

Cognitus wrote on Mar 29, 2009 12:29 PM:

" Same Old Ed:"Sorry, Let me reword that. We have a guy who can't figure out how to pay his own taxes in charge of our money. Is that better? "

Ed, most people in his tax bracket have their taxes done by an accountant. And accountants DO MAKE MISTAKES. I learned last spring that the accountants in the Illinois Department of Revenue make mistakes. They claimed I had underpaid my taxes; I ended up getting a refund of my over-payment plus the penalty and interest.
Further I've learned from an insider that the Obama administrations is scrubbing their appointments deeper than any administration in history. Do you think YOU could produce all the receipts justifying tax figures from 10 years ago -- the people vetting Obama's appointments are doing so.
When Bush was making his appointments, the most serious question asked was, "Whom did you vote for in the last election?" "

shumphreys wrote on Mar 29, 2009 3:54 PM:

" Harry, the US is going to find itself in quite a mess if the Spanish court decides to prosecute. Isn't the US one of the few nations that refused to join that international court in the Hague? Was there ever any doubt as to why the Bush administration refused to join? "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 29, 2009 5:32 PM:

" Was there ever any doubt as to why the Bush administration refused to join? "

Nope! His thugs knew exactly what they were doing. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 29, 2009 5:52 PM:

" Perhaps Obama should have wanted till we had soup lines before acting on his ideas for trying to save the economy.

While I'm not particularly thrilled with all the spending, I think it's better than the proposal of the Pubies, which basically is just another tax cut for the super wealthy.

History will judge Obama, and if his ideas fail, he will be judged accordingly. The vast majority of Americans are hoping and praying for him to succeed, for if he does, so does American.

Of course there are those like radio hate jock Limbaugh who are praying for his failure. The Obama haters have invested so much time and effort in trying to destroy him already that they are going to look awfully foolish if his plans succeed.

Some how I imagine the naysayers will try to take credit for a turn around in the economy, even if it's strictly the results of the stimulus package. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 29, 2009 6:01 PM:

" NEW YORK The Huffington Post said Sunday that it will bankroll a group of investigative journalists, directing them at first to look at stories about the nation's economy.

The popular blog is collaborating with The Atlantic Philanthropies and other donors to launch the Huffington Post Investigative Fund with an initial budget of $1.75 million. That should be enough for 10 staff journalists who will primarily coordinate stories with freelancers, said Arianna Huffington, co-founder and editor-in-chief of The Huffington Post.

Good! This country needs some good old muckraking. We could have used this for the last 8 years. The MSM let the Bush administration have free reign, despite all the whining from the right about how harsh they were on Bush/Cheney.

Cheney pretty well got a free pass over his ties to the military arms merchants.

If the press had been doing it's job, people would have been screaming for reform, and Cheney's resignation. "

Cognitus wrote on Mar 29, 2009 7:26 PM:

" bps:"I know this wasnt asked to me but heres my 2 cents:
How about replace the atrocity we have now with a NATIONAL SALES TAX?
Here are a few of the arguments for it:
Quote-
There would be no tax forms for citizens to fill out.
It would eliminate the need for the IRS (huge cost savings).
The Treasury could handle Tax revenues.
It would be administered just like current state sales taxes.
e current cost of tax compliance is estimated at $600 billion a year.
=====================================

This is a terrible, even outrageous, proposal.
First, I am retired. I paid income taxes as my money came IN; I saved and invested some and have some pensions to which I contributed: now you want to tax me AGAIN in retirement as my money goes OUT.
THAT is DOUBLE TAXATION, AND A DAMNED
OUTRAGE.

Further, you hint that luxury items should carry a higher tax rate.

Don't you remember a few years ago -- maybe 10 years or so -- Congress passed a luxury tax on luxury automobiles, yachts, etc. That didn't last long.
The people who sold luxury automobiles and the people who built yachts raised H*** -- and those are the people who have money and influence; within 2 or 3 years the luxury taxes were quitely removed from the books.

And there is the question of WHAT would be taxed?? Milk, bread, etc. -- of course. You suggest taxes should be higher on PREPARED foods -- like bread?
But what is NOT taxed?? Would you pay sales tax on a home? when you buy stocks and bonds?? Ohhhhhhh, wellll.
You think there's a difference between bread which nourishes me and a house that keeps me warm?? You would have a civil war on your hands just determining what should be taxed -- and you can be sure the wealthy and influential would make sure THEIR most used products would be exempted. Can you imagine the rumpus in the financial world if there were a sales tax on purchase of stocks at the brokerages.
Obviously this is a proposal which you haven't thought through very well. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 29, 2009 7:29 PM:

" There is alot being said about the Government dabbing into private businesses. Today the CEO and Chairman of GM is being canned by the White House. This diving this deep into private companys is getting very scary to say the least. I am a non supporter nor a supporter of the Democrats but this is looking bad to me. I think they should let them fail, not try to take control of them. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 31, 2009 10:07 AM:

" Today the CEO and Chairman of GM is being canned by the White House.

No Rohn, the White House didn't can him, he was told if he wanted GM to get more government bail out money he needed to step aside. What's wrong with that idea? If we are going to bail corporations out, shouldn't we, through our elected leaders have some say so?

Unlike Bush, who doled out billions to some companies with no oversight, Obama is trying to insure our money is wisely used. With the exception of the rabid Obama haters, I suspect the majority of people agree with that idea.

Of course if you listen to the radio hate jocks like Limbaugh with his drug induced rants, you would think the entire country had turned their back on Obama and his ideas. "

M wrote on Apr 7, 2009 12:18 PM:

" I don't know who Jack Pierce is beyond what I have just read but I agree with him. Who, among you, prefers a dictator to elected officials? Who, here, wishes to wait endlessly for a critical surgical procedure? Who, in their right mind, wants the government to take away their freedom of speech? Who, if anyone, wants to be tracked and traced in their daily routines? Do you want your email to be monitored? Or your right to bear arms taken from you? Or maybe you just despise our Constitution? Is that it? I am certain that if you want to live under a fascist ruler that you could just move to China instead of trying so desperately to create a new communist country out of our beloved America. The truth is that each and every one of you value your freedoms (provided by our Constitution & Bill of Rights) just as much as the next guy. So, why on earth would you support this self-appointed "savior" who blatantly admits that he is in favor of a one world order? I am sickened by your inability to face reality and your utter disregard for what our country stands for. Move to China. "

M wrote on Apr 11, 2009 6:24 AM:

" We, Americans, are in the midst of an economical & political power-grab which will directly undermine & permanently change our entire way of life as well as our belief system as a whole. Our Constitution will be null & void if Americans sit idly by with the mindset that 'we are America, we'll bounce back, we always do'. What we are failing to recognize is that not everyone has the same agenda for our country. There are people with authority, in power right now, who wish for completely different things for us than what was written in our Constitution and they are aggressively seeking to make those wishes a reality. It isn't a matter of Republicans and Democrats anymore. That old argument is irrelevant. There is no perfect party, never has been. But what we are facing will challenge us no matter who we line up with. We are all facing the fact that our freedoms are evaporating right before our very eyes. There are at least 20 states declaring sovereignty right now. If our federal government had any intent on doing what 'we the people' want or need then that wouldn't even be an issue. We are clearly facing an uncertain future with an unproven leader at the helm. I am certain of one thing and that is the fact that this new administration is leading us into a new world order that we will never recover from. Our own government wishes to bankrupt our country to force us into submission and acceptance of this new world order. Don't let them do that to our beautiful country. Wake up, stand up & do not put up with any more of this socialism in the making. "