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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

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Friday, March 6, 2009 9:47 PM CST
LETTER: Illinois should pass concealed carry law

STAN CARPENTER, Charleston

It has come to our attention in the past and now that Illinois is way behind her times.

Illinois is a great state and I am very proud to call it my home, as it has been for almost the past 60 years. The people are very friendly and it in itself is a very nice place to visit and live.

We have but one problem and have had it for some time. The right to protect ourselves.

We live in a state where the lawmakers are not at all thinking of our welfare and being safe every day. Our police do a very fine job in taking care of crime. They place their lives on the line every day for us.

As you may know the Supreme Court ruled that law enforcement officers have no legal obligation to protect your life.

In any given situation when the police are called and they do not get there on time, a life could have been save if someone would have had a CCW permit. Illinois and Wisconsin are the only two states that do not have concealed carry laws in effect.

Who are these people? They do not have the right to tell me I can’t protect myself and my children. Are the lives of their children more valuable than mine?

We should have the right to defend ourself anywhere we go. Illinois, it’s time for us to take our state back and let these lawmakers know how we feel.

Please take a few seconds and make a call to your congressmen or your state representative and tell him that you demand your rights.

Ask them to support bill HB0367 the family and personal protection act. I want my grandchildren to be safe. If this does not become a reality in my lifetime, I will at least know that I have made an effort.

We have a petition to sign, please give me a call and support this bill. Time is very important.

STAN CARPENTER

Charleston

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The Question wrote on Mar 7, 2009 7:17 AM:

" Last summer in Columbia, SC, a 4-year-old girl shot herself in the chest after snatching her grandmother's handgun from the woman's purse while riding in a shopping cart at a Sam's Club store.
Another family protected by concealed carry! Hooray! "

The Question wrote on Mar 7, 2009 7:21 AM:

" Isn't it odd that, in a community that's already relatively safe, the concealed-carry proponents feel such an overwhelming, urgent need to make it "safer?"
The vast anecdotal evidence is irrelevant to the proponents because it's really a smokescreen. In fact, the concealed-carry fever has nothing to do with rational policy or public safety. It is driven by the psychological needs of the proponents, not by reason.
They are already free to have all the guns they want, but that's not nearly enough. That doesn't satisfy their gun fetishism. They think they need to be able to fondle and caress a gun at all hours, everywhere, in order to feel satisfied, and safe, and superior.
What they don't know is that won't satisfy them either. Nothing will.
A gun is an instrument of deadly force, and to hunger and thirst for deadly force at all times in a safe environment indicates that you are overcompensating for your buried, unacknowledged feelings of inadequacy and powerlessness.
Note how it's largely men, with their well-known hang-ups about personal power, who crusade for concealed carry. Women are more vulnerable, but are not panting to pack heat.
The closer we get to discussing the real motivations behind this issue, the angrier the concealed-carry proponents will become. It's a defense mechanism to keep them from facing what they secretly know to be the truth about themselves and their fears about their own powerlessness. "

Cognitus wrote on Mar 7, 2009 1:21 PM:

" I just cannot understand these fellows who are so paranoid about being held up on the courthouse square that they want to convert downtown into the OK Corral.
I wouldn't trust any of these hotheads with a BB gun.
Let me give a possible scenario if everyone is carrying a gun and thus essentially assuming the role of a law-enforcement officer: At McDonald's, Mr A, who is outraged because Mr. B spit on his sidewalk, grabs his gun and kills Mr. B.
Mr. C, to insure justice is done, jumps up with his gun to shoot murderer Mr A.
At that point Mr. D walks in the door,
sees Mr. C with his gun drawn, assumes he's getting ready to kill someone, so Mr. D shoots Mr. C -- instead of murderer Mr. A. By that time there is total confusion, at least a dozen men have their guns drawn -- for "personal protection" of course -- each shooting at the nearest man to him with a gun drawn... Takes a dozen ambulances to carry away the dead and injured, an hour for the police to restore order, and 2 days for McDonalds to clean up the blood. "

HeinekenMan wrote on Mar 7, 2009 6:14 PM:

" I will not rest until everyone in Coles County packs a bazooka. With the high incidence of violent crimes in Coles County, it should be a priority. And what about our kids? I say pack a grenade with their Lunchables before you send them to school. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 7, 2009 7:10 PM:

" I have to wonder if some of the folks who post on here and display their seething anger and rage should be allowed to even own a gun in the first place, let alone go around town carrying it. "

jd50 wrote on Mar 7, 2009 8:04 PM:

" And a rapid reduction of the population. "

blackhawk wrote on Mar 8, 2009 8:01 AM:

" The Question and Cognitus.............YOU ARE SHEEP "

The Question wrote on Mar 8, 2009 8:41 AM:

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 8, 2009 9:16 AM:

" I say pack a grenade with their Lunchables before you send them to school. "

Don't go giving them any more ideas, they're wacky enough now, H man. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 8, 2009 11:20 AM:

" Even through the laughs I could see lots of Cognitus's points happening. "

Open your eyes wrote on Mar 8, 2009 12:28 PM:

" Mattoon has had no strong arm robberies,knifeings,armed robberies,baseball bat beatings,4 men on one beatings or murders.Such a safe place to live in.
The gran mother should have been charged.Anyone who doesn't controll a handgun to the utmost safty should be charged with a felony.
Your right,ignorant people do not need to carry a hand gun,however they are many that know the safty aspects involved.

When secounds count,the police are only a few minutes away!

When one of you or a family member is beaten,robbed or killed while you stand and watch,you will think differently.

33,000 criminals were killed last year by private citzens while protecting themselves.More than all the police in the US.
For every ignorant person carrying a gun,their are hundreds if not more that are qualified.

IF GUNS KILL PEOPLE,
pencils mispel words.

cars make people drive drunk.

spoons make Rosie O'Ddonnell fat.

Put the blame where it belongs,with the ignorant people who have guns,Till they are weeded out,you are correct in some your asumptions.

My gun has already protected my family and I from one breakin untill the police arrived,20 minutes later.

I have the only controll and say so about my gun,
NO PROBLEMS HERE,unless you come to harm us.
If your lucky,when someone trys to harm or kill you I might be there! Qualified Gun Owner "

medic57 wrote on Mar 8, 2009 1:32 PM:

" That's what we need, pistol packers going into The Ice House and Brian's Place. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 9, 2009 9:38 AM:

" medic57 wrote on Mar 8, 2009 1:32 PM:

" That's what we need, pistol packers going into The Ice House and Brian's Place. "

No problem, medic. From what I've heard most of their clientele couldn't get a FOID card anyway. "

father bob wrote on Mar 9, 2009 11:32 AM:

" Who are these people? They do not have the right to tell me I cant protect myself and my children. Are the lives of their children more valuable than mine?""""

you don't need to pack heat on the street to do it. "

father bob wrote on Mar 9, 2009 11:57 AM:

" As you may know the Supreme Court ruled that law enforcement officers have no legal obligation to protect your life.""""

you need to move back to ruby ridge. "

even steven wrote on Mar 9, 2009 12:32 PM:

" Strick gun laws do not work. States with conceal carry laws experience a drop in violent crimes. This is a fact. People who hate the freedom citizens in the US enjoy are the ones who want to remove our Second Amendment right to bear arms and are therefor traitors to the nation. It's just that simple. "

The Question wrote on Mar 9, 2009 3:58 PM:

" Strick gun laws do not work
---
No? How about strict ones? And what makes you think you are qualified to comment on public policy when you have not even bothered to educate yourself on the basics of the English language?
So perhaps it's not "just that simple." Some views are far TOO simple. "

father bob wrote on Mar 9, 2009 4:15 PM:

" even steven wrote on Mar 9, 2009 12:32 PM:
" Strick gun laws do not work. States with conceal carry laws experience a drop in violent crimes. This is a fact. People who hate the freedom citizens in the US enjoy are the ones who want to remove our Second Amendment right to bear arms and are therefor traitors to the nation. It's just that simple. """"

all of them republicans...no doubt "

open your eyes wrote on Mar 9, 2009 5:54 PM:

" No problem, medic. From what I've heard most of their clientele couldn't get a FOID card anyway. "

How many criminals do you know that has one??

Wait til you or a family member is killed and robbed.You'll have a different perspective.

Try robbing me somethime. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 9, 2009 6:47 PM:

" somethime. " Is that some type of herb? "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 9, 2009 7:16 PM:

" strick gun laws, til, somethime, therefor...

The gun nuts seem to have something thing in common, fb.

And it's nice to know that those of us who are for any type of gun laws are traitors now. Wow! Sounds like the Limbaugh syndrome has struck locally. LOL! "

The Question wrote on Mar 9, 2009 7:17 PM:

" Try robbing me somethime.
---
I'll put you on the top of the list. You'll be the very next person I rob, I promise. "

just watching wrote on Mar 9, 2009 7:35 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote "somethime"is that some kind of herb?" It could either be that or some intoxicated gun toten ice house guy with a bad hair lisp. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 9, 2009 7:56 PM:

" just watching wrote on Mar 9, 2009 7:35 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote "somethime"is that some kind of herb?" It could either be that or some intoxicated gun toten ice house guy with a bad hair lisp. "

This one gets my "post of the day award"..... "

medic57 wrote on Mar 10, 2009 12:11 AM:

" I can see it now 200,000 people at a NASCAR race all packing. That would make a good movie. "

Tom Andres wrote on Mar 10, 2009 8:25 AM:

" 200,000 people at a NASCAR race all packing?

Come on m57 (LOL, sounds like a model number for a weapon.), why all the stereotyped, hysteria-laden hype? 48 states already have concealed carry, and I don't recall even one such NASCAR incident where 200,000 fans began shooting one another.

Try this hypothetical: 200,000 at a gathering of black-tie white wine and croissant PC-castrated fans, and only one crazed bad guy with a dozen clips and a fully automatic weapon. How would that work out for you? After the shooting starts, would you take a peek from behind your ladys skirt hoping to find just one heat-packing gentleman in the crowd willing to pump some lead into the bad guys chest?

I'm guessing all the anti-Second Amendment types will be in Springfield tomorrow for the Illinois Gun Owners Lobby Day. Looking forward to seeing you there.

http://igold.isra.org/ "

father bob wrote on Mar 10, 2009 9:05 AM:

" open your eyes wrote on Mar 9, 2009 5:54 PM:
"Wait til you or a family member is killed and robbed.You'll have a different perspective.

Try robbing me somethime. """"

well..... if i'm killed, i'll definitely testify at the hearings and trial. "

father bob wrote on Mar 10, 2009 9:08 AM:

" medic57 wrote on Mar 10, 2009 12:11 AM:
" I can see it now 200,000 people at a NASCAR race all packing. That would make a good movie. """""

yeah, i can see it now.... the race gets boring so they start shooting out tires. "

father bob wrote on Mar 10, 2009 9:31 AM:

" " even steven wrote on Mar 9, 2009 12:32 PM:
" People who hate the freedom citizens in the US enjoy are the ones who want to remove our Second Amendment right to bear arms and are therefor traitors to the nation.""""

so you agree, george wtf bush is a traitor to our nation and should be prosecuted to the fullest degree of the law, for violation of our constitutional rights...??? "

father bob wrote on Mar 10, 2009 9:40 AM:

" even steven wrote on Mar 9, 2009 12:32 PM:
" People who hate the freedom citizens in the US enjoy are the ones who want to remove our Second Amendment right to bear arms and are therefor traitors to the nation.""""

and you sound like the typical nutcase that would sue a public school for disallowing your kid to pack a weapon to class. "

father bob wrote on Mar 10, 2009 9:44 AM:

" Tom Andres wrote on Mar 10, 2009 8:25 AM:
" I don't recall even one such NASCAR incident where 200,000 fans began shooting one another.""""

yet.....give them enough beer and time, it'll happen. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 10, 2009 9:57 AM:

" Cognitus still has the best and most realist scenario. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 10, 2009 10:47 AM:

" Hey fb, Fox is running all those polls on Obama's performance, perhaps they should run one to see if people wanted Bush and the Dickster tried. Gitmo might be the ideal place to put those two reprobates, with out air conditioning, of course. "

Cognitus wrote on Mar 10, 2009 12:11 PM:

" The Question wrote on Mar 8, 2009 8:41 AM:
" I will not rest until everyone in Coles County packs a bazooka. With the high incidence of violent crimes in Coles County, it should be a priority. And what about our kids? I say pack a grenade with their Lunchables before you send them to school.

And someeone should immediately go to work to develop nuclear pistols so that
folks who are pixxed at someone/thing can literally raise H***. "

Cognitus wrote on Mar 10, 2009 12:15 PM:

" Open Your Eyes:"I have the only controll and say so about my gun,
NO PROBLEMS HERE,unless you come to harm us.
If your lucky,when someone trys to harm or kill you I might be there! Qualified Gun Owner "

I'd feel safer if you would give us your address. I'll tell you for sure,
if I had a flat tire in front of your house after dark, I sure as H*** wouln't knock on your door and ask to use your phone to call AAA. You sound like a real neighborly type. I hope I don't live in the same block with you. "

Cognitus wrote on Mar 10, 2009 12:19 PM:

" "" Strick gun laws do not work
---
No? How about strict ones? And what makes you think you are qualified to comment on public policy when you have not even bothered to educate yourself on the basics of the English language?
So perhaps it's not "just that simple." Some views are far TOO simple. "

THANK YOU, Question, by writing exactly my thoughts, and better than I could have!!!! "

Cognitus wrote on Mar 10, 2009 12:26 PM:

" Tom Andres:"Try this hypothetical: 200,000 at a gathering of black-tie white wine and croissant PC-castrated fans, and only one crazed bad guy with a dozen clips and a fully automatic weapon."

My G**, how did I miss out on this??
I just love to read newpaper accounts of gory scenes like this. Can you tell me the date when this event or one identical to it happened -- and name of newspaper where reported would help.
Oh, you mean it DIDN'T really happen; you were just HOPING for the worst? Well, grab your gun Tom-boy; you could become a hero and make it happen. You could start with the local Phi Beta Kappa dinner -- oh, you're a member? really??? "

Cognitus wrote on Mar 10, 2009 12:30 PM:

" HP:"
" Hey fb, Fox is running all those polls on Obama's performance, perhaps they should run one to see if people wanted Bush and the Dickster tried. Gitmo might be the ideal place to put those two reprobates, with out air conditioning, of course. "

WOW, what an opportunity!! Since these guys say waterboarding is not torture, I'd love the opportunity to tickle them with a couple of buckets. "

open your eyes wrote on Mar 10, 2009 1:10 PM:

" well..... if i'm killed, i'll definitely testify at the hearings and trial. "

"with a knife in your hand,won't do much good.

Your about to talk me to death now.
Maybe you should register your mouth.

Question.YOU CAN ALWAYS PRAY.Forgot,NOT YOU,then maybe again you just might start. "

medic57 wrote on Mar 10, 2009 2:40 PM:

" yeah, i can see it now.... the race gets boring so they start shooting out tires.

Everyone's but Jr's. "

father bob wrote on Mar 10, 2009 2:44 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Mar 10, 2009 10:47 AM:
"Gitmo might be the ideal place to put those two reprobates, with out air conditioning, of course. """""

i agree harry, cheney himself said it was "a tropical island.....a pleasant place to stay." "

even steven wrote on Mar 10, 2009 3:12 PM:

" As usual, the leftist sissies on this board type all sorts of blather, but it's obvious to everyone that they hate the US Constitution and are working to undermine and subvert it. The word for people who do that is "traitor"... the useful idiots who enable tyrants. Anyone who's read history knows this. "

Hahvahd wrote on Mar 10, 2009 3:22 PM:

" To all the gun nuts who claim that concealed carry laws lower the crime rate: so what planet do you live on? Are you telling me that Illinois and Wisconsin have the highest crime rates in the nation? We're the only 2 without concealed carry, and yet I don't see vast crime waves here in corn country; nor do I see folks running in fear to stay away from the Wisconsin Dells. But, hmmmmm, it does seem like gun-totin' states like Texas and Arizona have plenty of violent crimes, even with the populace allowed to carry their guns wherever and whenever they want. Isn't Arizona the state, too, with the eight year old kid that blew away his dad and another man who rented a room from them? Yeah, let's put guns in everyone's hands. What a bunch of nuts. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 10, 2009 3:36 PM:

" ..Constitution and are working to undermine and subvert it.

Uh...that would be Bush. "

father bob wrote on Mar 10, 2009 4:28 PM:

" even steven wrote on Mar 10, 2009 3:12 PM:
" As usual, the leftist sissies on this board type all sorts of blather, but it's obvious to everyone that they hate the US Constitution and are working to undermine and subvert it. The word for people who do that is "traitor"... the useful idiots who enable tyrants. Anyone who's read history knows this. """""

having a gun makes you feel maly and important....or in your case impotent. "

father bob wrote on Mar 10, 2009 4:39 PM:

" Hahvahd wrote on Mar 10, 2009 3:22 PM:
"Isn't Arizona the state, too, with the eight year old kid that blew away his dad and another man who rented a room from them? Yeah, let's put guns in everyone's hands. What a bunch of nuts. """"

the nutcases need to read the albuquerque journal monday morning....the weekend carnage of shootings gets a lot of press.

great to know a drunk coming out of a bar has a loaded gun strapped on.

signs everywhere asking you not to carry your gun inside. shootings in parking lots, wives murdered by drunk husbands who carry a gun. kids shot coming home after a movie, neighbors shooting each other over any little disturbance or pet peeve.

but there again the nutcases who want it would love all the violence that comes with it. "

The Question wrote on Mar 10, 2009 5:34 PM:

" James G. Cummings, a man Belfast, Maine, police say was shot to death by his wife two months ago, reportedly had a cache of radioactive materials in his home suitable for building a "dirty bomb." He was a U.S. Nazi who was "very upset" when Barack Obama was elected president.
Hey, the Second Amendment protects your right to own radioactive materials, right, boys? Just in case you need to strike a blow for that freedom you cherish so loudly? "

just watching wrote on Mar 10, 2009 6:02 PM:

" Hahvahd I think that 8yr old boy you mentioned was exercising his right to protest same sex marriage the dad & man were fixing to become life partners I could however be mistaken. "

Tom Andres wrote on Mar 10, 2009 6:04 PM:

" You could start with the local Phi Beta Kappa dinner -- oh, you're a member? really???"

Nah, I couldn't get through the PBK hell week, too much hazing, but I am a card carrying member of Mensa International.

As far as the alphabet clubs are concerned, I'm thinking I'm qualified for the AB or the PBR Club. LOL "

Tom Andres wrote on Mar 10, 2009 6:10 PM:

" having a gun makes you feel maly and important....or in your case impotent."

Hey, fatherlessbob, did you get that "maly" word from the "somethime" dictionary?

And what's this with "impotent" anyway? Is that another racist comment coming from you? "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 10, 2009 7:10 PM:

" And what's this with "impotent" anyway? Is that another racist comment coming from you? "

This is good, Tommy calling someone a racist. I gotta keep on top of this thread. I wouldn't want to miss any of Tommy's Mexican Gardener jokes. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 10, 2009 7:26 PM:

" Nah, I couldn't get through the PBK hell week, too much hazing, but I am a card carrying member of Mensa International.

Uh...right Tommy. LOL! Did I tell you I invented the escalator? "

Hahvahd wrote on Mar 10, 2009 7:27 PM:

" Just watching, are you implying it was okay to kill the dad and the tenant because they were homosexual? Unbelievable! Actually, I hadn't heard any claims of a same-sex relationship, but that the father had abused the boy and that the tenant was apparently in the wrong place at the wrong time. I certainly don't condone child abuse and I understand the child's anguish, but I would like to think the child would have had a better chance of recovery from this abuse if he had been removed from the home and the father's parental rights had been severed, rather than the child also having to deal with the ramifications of having killed 2 people, besides being abused. This is what happens when guns are proliferated so freely. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 10, 2009 7:31 PM:

" All these people whining and crying about someones spelling is just flat out pitiful. You KNOW what they said, just answer and react to that. Leave the spelling and English lessons at the schools. "

The Question wrote on Mar 10, 2009 7:39 PM:

" Some gun-toting nut job just killed seven people in two Alabama towns. Why didn't one of you concealed--carry freaks take him out before he got off the first shot? "

just watching wrote on Mar 10, 2009 8:43 PM:

" Hahvahd-no I condone nothing to do with homosexuality,murder,or child abuse i feel sorry for the kid,but not the abuser/s. "

open your eyes wrote on Mar 10, 2009 9:30 PM:

" " Some gun-toting nut job just killed seven people in two Alabama towns. Why didn't one of you concealed--carry freaks take him out before he got off the first shot

If they had been carrying weapons,don't you you think they would have had a chance of not being victems? "

open your eyes wrote on Mar 10, 2009 9:36 PM:

" " Some gun-toting nut job just killed seven people in two Alabama towns. Why didn't one of you concealed--carry freaks take him out before he got off the first shot

"If I had been there I would have,"

If they had been carrying weapons,don't you you think they would have had a chance of living? Bet their last thoughts might have been wishing they had some kind of protection. You would have been reading a different story. Better to be a dead sheep I guess,the way you see it.

New York City's gun laws work,right.
Whats it take to figure it out.Never mind you never will. "

The Question wrote on Mar 10, 2009 9:48 PM:

" But Alabama HAS concealed carry permits, Open. Why didn't a state full of well-armed gunslingers stop that killer before he murdered a total of at least 10 people? NONE of your hair-trigger heroes stopped him -- he shot himself. "

laveau wrote on Mar 11, 2009 2:07 AM:

" Several years ago a stranger broke into my home and a female family member was attacked and beaten. The criminal was never caught or identified. Fortunately, if he was carrying a gun it wasn't used. I am guessing the reason he wasn't carrying a gun was because he didn't have the proper permit?

2 years ago in Chicago, another relative was the victim of a carjacking. The thief DID have a gun, and I am guessing he DIDN'T have the proper permit. Perhaps you should track HIM down and take him to a NASCAR race. After all, he has a gun he must be a racing fanatic...

Apparently there are naive individuals around Coles Co that believe we live in Mayberry, and that Mattoon hasn't yet been subjected to the crimes the big city folks deal with. Apparently these individuals also aren't aware that there ARE violent crimes that take place in our little hick towns of Mattoon and Charleston that aren't listed in the JG-TC. I didn't realize that before a thief or rapist attacks his/her victim they make sure they have the proper concealed weapon identification? Perhaps you should place your concerns with the criminals that carry the weapons with ill intentions, and less on the law abiding citizens that are allowed the right by constitution.

I will agree it is sad the number of children that are injured or killed every year due to irresponsible parents and family members who keep loaded guns in the house. But there are gun owning parents who know how to properly store their gun to safe guard it from a child. What are the statistics of the children who are killed by a family members gun, and the owner of the gun doesn't have a FOID card? I haven't heard anywhere that only children whose parents have a concealed gun permit are victims to such terrible accidents? It doesn't matter if a gun if obtained or carried legally or illegally, the responsibility of safety doesn't change!

Lastly, the lack of intelligence and the stereo-typing in some of these threads are borderline nauseating. Most of the patrons at the Ice House can't have a FOID card? Hell, I not only WORKED at the Ice House, I HAVE a FOID card. I also HATE NASCAR. If you would like to single out bar patrons that you ASSUME would be unable to obtain a FOID card, maybe you should also visit Pat's, CJ'S, Donnie's, The Oasis, Spanky's, The Eagle's, The Moose, The VFW, The Legion, Joe's, Toaster's, The Alamo, JJ's Bar & Grill, JeLeniz, and Buffalo Wild Wings. I am sure all these fine establishments also have patrons that are unable to own a gun legally. While you are on your stereo-typing witch hunt, you better also check out the employees at Wal-Mart, all the gas stations, every construction company, County Market and every fast food joint in the area. It's hard telling how many scruffy, NASCAR-loving, gun-toting tough guys and gals you will find there either!
P.S.
Make sure you install metal detectors at your front door and pat down your UPS, Fed-Ex and US Postal carrier the next time you see them. You know all about those people too. They may even like NASCAR!! Which makes me wonder.... According to some of you, why isn't the term of a disgruntled employee changed from "going postal" to "going NASCAR"? I think you people are onto something... "

open your eyes wrote on Mar 11, 2009 4:20 AM:

" Why didn't a state full of well-armed gunslingers stop that killer before he murdered a total of at least 10 people? NONE of your hair-trigger heroes stopped him -- he shot himself. "

Could be that there isn't as many gun totin killers in a state with the conceal law as you might think. Stringent laws,training and people like you.I don't want to see the Hatfields and Mc'Coys either.If my familie's life were on the line,I would appreciate a good,qualified citizen stepping up to protect us.I would argue the same as you.No thugs with guns,only highly trained ,qualified citizens. Correct me if I'm wrong.The problem is the thugs already have the guns. "

thing wrote on Mar 11, 2009 6:33 AM:

" Sounds like the anti-gun people on here have lost touch with reallity. You guys are making the so called (gun nuts)sound more sane than you are. Bottom line, ILL is one of the last 2 states that does not have a carry law. We need to step up with the times.

Question sounds like a shrink after reading your first post. "

just watching wrote on Mar 11, 2009 8:14 AM:

" Open you eyesth; Somethimes you canth beeth everywhereths to prothect usth tho would thould we do unthil you tho up? Thanks for looking outh though. "

The Question wrote on Mar 11, 2009 8:45 AM:

" Several years ago a stranger broke into my home and a female family member was attacked and beaten...
---
Several years ago, lightning struck a tree right next to my house. I say we should all go everywhere with lightning rods strapped to our heads! "

father bob wrote on Mar 11, 2009 9:36 AM:

" laveau wrote on Mar 11, 2009 2:07 AM:
If you would like to single out bar patrons that you ASSUME would be unable to obtain a FOID card, maybe you should also visit Pat's, CJ'S, Donnie's, The Oasis, Spanky's, The Eagle's, The Moose, The VFW, The Legion, Joe's, Toaster's, The Alamo, JJ's Bar & Grill, JeLeniz, and Buffalo Wild Wings."""""

sorry you can't hold a real job and have to work in a bar....and thanks for pointing out mattoon's serious drinking problem. guns and alcohol don't mix. "

bullwhip56 wrote on Mar 11, 2009 10:00 AM:

" 'Letter:Illinois should pass concealed carry law'
Mr. Potter,
I have 1 comment on you letter of 3/9/09. Should someone break into your home (I pray that will never happen) they are there for 2 reasons. That is to rob you or seriously hurt you and your family also. If you are in a convience store,bank,ect... criminal's might think twice about a robbery questioning who has a gun and who does'nt. I hope society today thinks about these situation's and let's there elected offical's know their feeling's on this VERY important issue.
Just a thought......1 more thing I do own gun's. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 11, 2009 12:35 PM:

" For the bullwhip56 poster:

You might be surprised to learn that I too have a loaded weapon in my home, bullwhip56.

I have absolutely no problem with people owning guns for the following reasons: protecting their homes, target practice, competitive shooting matches and hunting.

I do have a problem with the idea of people going to the mall, driving around town, going to a movie while carrying a loaded weapon. Call me naive if you like, but seeing the road rage that goes on everyday between Mattoon and Charleston gives the idea that there are too many folks out their that have no business carrying a loaded weapon.

If they were carrying a loaded weapon, what do you think some of these idiots that are prone to giving the bird, cutting people off etc would do if they had a loaded gun on their person? I don't want to find that out. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 11, 2009 12:41 PM:

" Oops, I forgot to mention that I appreciate you civil tone, bullwhip. It's refreshing to see someone who disagrees with you not to start name calling and questioning your intelligence, just because they disagree with you, as a lot of posters on here do. I guess this is one of those agree to disagree deals. "

laveau wrote on Mar 11, 2009 1:33 PM:

" Wow. Ok...To The Question, if you can compare the emotional trauma a 19-year old girl experiences when attacked and beaten in her own home to a tree being struck by lightning, you are out of your mind. Your response was so ignorant I almost pity you. Perhaps had it been YOUR daughter or sister you would feel the same.
Father Bob...read a little closer. When and where did I state that I worked at ALL those establishments? Judging by your reading comprehension I would suggest you pick an argument with someone else and not waste my time. I am sure that all the people working at all those establishments would appreciate your majesty judging them ALSO, especially since they are all obviously so far BENEATH you.... "

dc wrote on Mar 11, 2009 2:27 PM:

" I own guns and personally can't see the need for this. "

The Question wrote on Mar 11, 2009 2:51 PM:

" Laveau, anecdotal evidence of your past emotional trauma is no basis whatsoever for public policy. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 11, 2009 3:39 PM:

" I assume that The Ice House was chosen because of it's reputation for being a gathering place for the criminal element in Mattoon. Does anyone know if that one bartender still wears a tutu while he pours drinks? "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 11, 2009 3:51 PM:

" " Laveau, anecdotal evidence of your past emotional trauma is no basis whatsoever for public policy. "

Ouch! "

HisChild wrote on Mar 11, 2009 4:54 PM:

" While you guys are arguing about having the privilege of carrying guns or not, someone ought to be out here making sure there are no drivers on the road without drivers licenses or insurance! Look at all the damage these people do, I mean really! They ought to be corralled and made to do hard manual labor on farms and in prisons as a fine that teaches morals. "

open your eyes wrote on Mar 11, 2009 6:31 PM:

" The Question wrote on Mar 11, 2009 8:45 AM:

" Several years ago a stranger broke into my home and a female family member was attacked and beaten...Several years ago, lightning struck a tree right next to my house. I say we should all go everywhere with lightning rods strapped to our heads! "

That should be your choice if lighting rods can do you any good.Maybe if you had ben the one beaten,you might think a little different.

No one gets beat in my house! "

Bps wrote on Mar 11, 2009 7:15 PM:

" Some questions for:
The Question
Harry Potter
father bob
===================================
When you made all of your statements in this thread did you know that police have no legal duty to respond in a timely manner and prevent crime or to protect the victim?

There have BEEN OVER 10 supreme and national state court cases revolving around this and in no case has the decisions wavered.

If they take five hours or even never answer your 911 call, thats legally acceptable.

It is well-settled fact of American law that the police have no legal duty to protect any individual citizen from crime, even if the citizen has received death threats and the police have negligently failed to provide protection.

Notably, in 1980 the Supreme Court statement about the responsibility of police and the security of your family and loved ones is- "You, and only you, are responsible for your security and the security of your family and loved ones.

That was in essence the U.S. Supreme Court decision when they ruled that the police do not have a duty to protect you as an individual, but to only protect society as a whole.

Even IF it was law enforcements duty to protect each individual, it wouldn't be practical:

Quote: Even if all 500,000 American police officers were assigned to patrol, they could not protect 240 million citizens from upwards of 10 million criminals who enjoy the luxury of deciding when and where to strike. But we have nothing like 500,000 patrol officers; to determine how many police are actually available for any one shift, we must divide the 500,000 by four (three shifts per day, plus officers who have days off, are on sick leave, etc.). The resulting number must be cut in half to account for officers assigned to investigations, juvenile, records, laboratory, traffic, etc., rather than patrol- Source: Guns, Murders, and the Constitution (Pacific Research Institute for Public Policy, 1990).

So to all of you that have made your arguments and little jokes about the proposed concealed carry proposal or in past posts about the basic right to own a firearm provided to the citizen by the second amendment, I ask you, if the U.S. Supreme Court says it is our responsibility to provide for the security of our families are they wrong or are you?

I guess The Question, Harry Potter, and father bob plan to talk any assailants that show up in their lifes with their quick wits and their glib words. Good luck!

Me and my family, will do it with appropriate force applied by our legal firearm. "

Bps wrote on Mar 11, 2009 7:28 PM:

" HisChild wrote on Mar 11, 2009 4:54 PM:

" While you guys are arguing about having the privilege of carrying guns or not, someone ought to be out here making sure there are no drivers on the road without drivers licenses or insurance! Look at all the damage these people do, I mean really! They ought to be corralled and made to do hard manual labor on farms and in prisons as a fine that teaches morals. "

I agree that this is also a problem in this country as a whole. Driving drunk or drug impaired is stupid, dangerous and against the law.

Unfortunately, even though the laws are present they are not enforced equal in all jurisdictions.

Get a DUI in Champaign county and they will enforce the laws to the fullest. Yet up in Kankakee they will only slap your wrist until you finally kill two wonderful young ladies while your working on you six or seventh DUI.

Just as the vast majority of Gun Owners and Drivers are careful and law abiding, their will always be the small percentage of complete idiots that do stupid and dangerous things.

Wither the crime is committed with a gun or being drunk in a car, its up to everyone involved in the system to enforce the existing laws and get dangerous people in jail. "

The Question wrote on Mar 11, 2009 7:48 PM:

" No one gets beat in my house!
---
I presume you mean "beaten." Clearly, you don't play Scrabble in between sessions of oiling your assault rifle to prepare for the next wave of attackers that will attempt to invade your home.
If you did, you would be beaten regularly. "

Bps wrote on Mar 11, 2009 7:51 PM:

" The Question wrote on Mar 10, 2009 5:34 PM:
" James G. Cummings, a man Belfast, Maine, police say was shot to death by his wife two months ago, reportedly had a cache of radioactive materials in his home suitable for building a "dirty bomb." He was a U.S. Nazi who was "very upset" when Barack Obama was elected president.
Hey, the Second Amendment protects your right to own radioactive materials, right, boys? Just in case you need to strike a blow for that freedom you cherish so loudly? "

The Question wrote on Mar 10, 2009 9:48 PM:
" But Alabama HAS concealed carry permits, Open. Why didn't a state full of well-armed gunslingers stop that killer before he murdered a total of at least 10 people? NONE of your hair-trigger heroes stopped him -- he shot himself. "
=======================================

From seeing some of your previous post on other subjects I thought you were just logic impaired. If these were jokes, they aren't. If you arent just trolling all I can conclude is man you need some serious help.

Point One- the second amendment provides the right to own firearms and the ammunition that goes with them. It doesnt allow the citizen to own missiles, working weapons in tanks, WMDs,assault weapons and a whole lot of heavy duty stuff.

No matter what the liberals try to push, assault weapons have the capability to go fully automatic. It takes a very special federal firearms license and special fees to own a machine gun which is what a fully automatic weapon is.

What they are trying to ban is a semi-automatic- for TQs benefit a rifle that shots once for every time the trigger is pulled.

Point Two- duh, do you think if he killed those folks that their was anyone around that actually had a firearm to stop him?

If your posts are meant to be jokes, trust me they arent funny.

I seriously hope your just trolling, because if your not you shouldnt be allowed out of the institution lest you do yourself mischief. "

Bps wrote on Mar 11, 2009 8:01 PM:

The Question wrote on Mar 11, 2009 8:33 PM:

" The second amendment provides the right to own firearms and the ammunition that goes with them. It doesnt allow the citizen to own missiles, working weapons in tanks, WMDs,assault weapons and a whole lot of heavy duty stuff.
---
Why do you hate freedom, you commie? "

Bps wrote on Mar 11, 2009 9:23 PM:

" The Question wrote on Mar 11, 2009 8:33 PM:

" The second amendment provides the right to own firearms and the ammunition that goes with them. It doesnt allow the citizen to own missiles, working weapons in tanks, WMDs,assault weapons and a whole lot of heavy duty stuff.
---
Why do you hate freedom, you commie? "

In a previous post addressed to you was the following entry:

I seriously hope your just trolling, because if your not you shouldnt be allowed out of the institution lest you do yourself mischief.

Thanks for your prompt answer. Unfortunately it doesnt really help answer the question posed, does it?

Guess the jury will remain out on that one.

Seriously, since law enforcement doesnt have the legal responsibility to protect you or your loved ones how do you intend on meeting your duty to protect yourself or them?

Maybe you dont care, but then I wouldnt want to make any assumptions about someone I only know from your post to this forum.

Doesnt it make sense for people who not only have their FOID card, pass the required special background checks and also pass the training course on the responsibilities of conceal carry to responsibly carry for personal protection?

I await your response. "

equestria wrote on Mar 11, 2009 11:16 PM:

" I hope all of you who feel concealed carry should not be passed don't travel out of state, except to Wisconsin. All of the other states have concealed carry and I wouldn't want you paranoids to be worried about getting shot, you might run over someone while being on the lookout for the gunmen instead of watching the road. "

laveau wrote on Mar 12, 2009 4:07 AM:

" The Question....the emotional trauma was clearly far beyond anything you could ever comprehend in your narrow and somewhat simple mind. If you want to post threads on a sight debating the right to conceal weapons, then deal with the fact that not only do violent crimes take place, they do cause a great deal of emotional trauma for the victim. Perhaps you should consider a career in Public Services. I think your amazing ability to be compassionate would be of far greater use working with the public, instead of arguing with strangers on the internet. Perhaps being around people would also be good for you. If it weren't for this web site, you probably wouldn't be allowed the joys of interacting with other human beings. How sad...
Harry Potter...I am female. And no I never went to work in a tutu. There was nowhere to strap my .45 or switch blade comfortably. You're so witty, its cute. "

The Question wrote on Mar 12, 2009 6:37 AM:

" Pardon me for failing to grasp that your emotional traumas justify national policy, Laveau -- particularly since your trauma has nothing whatsoever to do with the issue at hand. This alleged stranger broke into your home and attacked someone. That has nothing to do with concealed carry.
You had a legal right to have a gun in your home for self-protection. Why didn't you shoot him? Guns are the great right-wing panacea, so why didn't you blaze away? "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 12, 2009 8:29 AM:

" Harry Potter...I am female. And no I never went to work in a tutu. There was nowhere to strap my .45 or switch blade comfortably. You're so witty, its cute. "

A little thin skinned, aren't we?

Of course it wasn't you wearing the tutu, the bartender in question was a male. lol! "

father bob wrote on Mar 12, 2009 9:28 AM:

" Bps wrote on Mar 11, 2009 7:15 PM:
"I guess The Question, Harry Potter, and father bob plan to talk any assailants that show up in their lifes with their quick wits and their glib words. Good luck!

Me and my family, will do it with appropriate force applied by our legal firearm. """""

just one real serious question for you Bps.......who's NASCAR cap you wearin'? "

father bob wrote on Mar 12, 2009 9:36 AM:

" equestria wrote on Mar 11, 2009 11:16 PM:
" I hope all of you who feel concealed carry should not be passed don't travel out of state, except to Wisconsin. All of the other states have concealed carry and I wouldn't want you paranoids to be worried about getting shot, you might run over someone while being on the lookout for the gunmen instead of watching the road. """""

you're a funny little goober!! and you have no clue what goes on in the state i live in. "

sapient wrote on Mar 12, 2009 10:36 AM:

" The evidence is plainly out there. Places that have concealed carry have lower crime rates, those places that do not have concealed carry have higher crime rates. Your left wing ideology trumps facts every time. "

Hammbone wrote on Mar 12, 2009 10:42 AM:

" I'm elated that this bill failed "

father bob wrote on Mar 12, 2009 12:19 PM:

" sapient wrote on Mar 12, 2009 10:36 AM:
" The evidence is plainly out there. Places that have concealed carry have lower crime rates, those places that do not have concealed carry have higher crime rates. Your left wing ideology trumps facts every time. """"

nope, just trumps NRA propaganda and lies. "

equestria wrote on Mar 12, 2009 12:24 PM:

" The criminals out there don't want a concealed carry law to pass. Since they have no regard for the law, they will carry guns anyway. They don't have to worry about law-biding citizens having a way to protect themselves while they are committing crimes. I know they appreciate all of you who are looking out for their safety. "

laveau wrote on Mar 12, 2009 2:29 PM:

" The Question..I was 19, at my parents home and a bit more naive than I am now. If it were to take place today, the outcome could be different. Many people, men and women, are assaulted outside their homes every day. No, I don't believe every man, woman and child should go to Wal-Mart strapping a piece. Nor do I think they would had a bill been passed. But I do think it is every American's right to protect themselves inside AND outside their home. I don't believe that a person should feel safe at their home and a bit skittish everywhere else.
Harry Potter..You would be the first to call be thin-skinned. Perhaps the problem is your sense of humor just sucks a bit? Just because you type "LOL" after every statement doesn't make you seem more capable of sarcasm. "

father bob wrote on Mar 12, 2009 2:37 PM:

" here's what loose gun laws do for ya! a "normal" well liked guy:

In the span of about an hour, McLendon, 28, set the home he shared with his mother on fire, killed five relatives and five bystanders and committed suicide in a standoff at the metals plant.

The communitys just in disbelief, just how this could happen in our small town, said state Sen. Harri Anne Smith, from the nearby town of Slocumb. This was 20-something miles of terror.

It was not clear how long McLendon had been planning the attack, but authorities said he armed himself with four guns two assault rifles with high-capacity magazines taped together, a shotgun and a .38-caliber pistol and may have planned a bigger massacre than he had time to carry out.

Im convinced he went over there to kill more people. He was heavily armed, said Sheriff Dave Sutton. "

oldschool wrote on Mar 12, 2009 3:00 PM:

" Potter...."your sense of humor sucks"
"Laveau" got you in her cross hair and unloaded on you....soooo funny!! A cyber wedgie that YOU will NEVER pull out...or live down... not even with the biggest crowbar (or put down)

The Emperor has no clothes, but a hand full of breathmints. Help FB...Help FB!!! "

Bps wrote on Mar 12, 2009 4:09 PM:

" father bob wrote on Mar 12, 2009 9:28 AM:
just one real serious question for you Bps.......who's NASCAR cap you wearin'? "

Because you assume you know me or at least my type so well, I guess I can tread on this perceived relationship and call you bobby, right?

There you go bobby, making assumptions based upon your personal prejudice about people who support gun ownership issues like conceal carry.

Can't stand NASCAR, actually I would prefer to attend a good lecture on history or such at the U of I. Maybe even go out to the woods and shoot my gun for awhile. You know bobby something fun to relax from the stress of a hard day of work.

Why bobby, I'll bet you would be surprised if I told you I actually got out of grade school. Heck youd be even more surprised to learn that I actually had completed high school right there in Mattoon and was able to go on to college and earn multiple college degrees. Oh, just in case it crosses your devious little mind, none of them were mail ordered or online.

You ought to be real happy today, bobby.

On Tuesday a hand full of your Liberal-Looney cronies from Chicago have stalled the proposed Conceal Carry law in a senate sub-committee. Almost all of downstate wants it and the peoples republic of Chicago has spoken.

Yep, just good old boys like you bobby. Of course these are the same old good buddies that have done so well with their gun banning in Chicago in reducing their crime rates.

Heck, they will probably decide to push some of those other bills they have ready to take away the rest of the states ability and rights to own firearms.

Illinois one of the last bastions of Conceal Carry- but only for the criminals. "

father bob wrote on Mar 12, 2009 4:40 PM:

" Bps wrote on Mar 12, 2009 4:09 PM:
"You ought to be real happy today, bobby.

On Tuesday a hand full of your Liberal-Looney cronies from Chicago have stalled the proposed Conceal Carry law in a senate sub-committee. Almost all of downstate wants it and the peoples republic of Chicago has spoken.""""

sanity has shone through...."don't worry, be happy!" and good luck with that relaxing gig, i think you need some....LOL! "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 12, 2009 4:50 PM:

" oldschool wrote on Mar 12, 2009 3:00 PM:

" Potter...."your sense of humor sucks"
"Laveau" got you in her cross hair and unloaded on you....soooo funny!! A cyber wedgie that YOU will NEVER pull out...or live down... not even with the biggest crowbar (or put down)

What, what a comeback, your sense of humor sucks? I've seen better from 10 year old kids.

Let's face it old school, everytime some moron calls me a name or complains about one of my posts you get all excited and start blathering about how I getting bested. I've taken some pretty good zingers, but this lame retort from a floosie drink pusher pusher at some local gin mill doesn't even come close to some of the stuff I've seen. But your reaction to it is typical and about what I would expect from someone who seems to be in a perpetual state of confusion over most issues. LOL! "

Stanley Stetson wrote on Mar 12, 2009 5:12 PM:

" * laveau wrote on Mar 12, 2009 2:29 PM: *
* "harry potter..you would be the first to call be thin-skinned. perhaps the problem is your sense of humor just sucks a bit? just because you type "LOL" after every statement doesn't make you seem more capable of sarcasm." *

* ahahahahaha * "

Stanley Stetson wrote on Mar 12, 2009 5:19 PM:

" * father bob wrote on Mar 12, 2009 2:37 PM: *
* "here's what loose gun laws do for ya! a "normal" well liked guy: *

* uhm father bob * had this fellow been through the regulations and properly received a concealed carry permit * uhm no he had not * foiled again brokeback boy * "

father bob wrote on Mar 12, 2009 5:23 PM:

" Stanley Stetson wrote on Mar 12, 2009 5:19 PM:
"* uhm father bob * had this fellow been through the regulations and properly received a concealed carry permit * uhm no he had not * foiled again brokeback boy * """""

um....i don't think i said anything about CC. i said: loose gun laws. try again einstein "

Bps wrote on Mar 12, 2009 5:32 PM:

" father bob wrote on Mar 12, 2009 2:37 PM:
" here's what loose gun laws do for ya! a "normal" well liked guy:

In the span of about an hour, McLendon, 28, set the home he shared with his mother on fire, killed five relatives and five bystanders ..
---------------------------------------
There you go bobby, taking a specific instance of a deranged individual and trying to extend it to support your case.

So your argument is that banning the right for normal, trained and certified individual citizens to defend themselves reduces the risk of crime and injury?

Youre saying that the possibility of an instance of a Nut Case is greater than the potential gain of an armed and trained citizenship?

Based upon your previous post to me you appear to have little opinion for my views or intellect, so lets try this approach:

According to the author of More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Law-

States with the largest increases in gun ownership also have the largest drops in violent crimes.

I am guessing you would counter that with the typical liberal question that this seems to defy common sense.

Surely it cant be true that crimes involving guns would be reduced by allowing more people to carry guns?

Well, the answer to that question would be that in fact criminals are deterred by higher penalties.

Multiple studies have shown that higher arrest and conviction rates deter crime. They also show that the risk that someone committing a crime will confront someone able to defend him or herself will reduce the instances of crime.

You see bobby criminals arent dumb when it comes to picking their marks. Theyll go to where the pickens are easiest. They dont like the fact that someone can shoot back at them.

Thats why Chicagos laws banning the ownership of handguns hasnt resulted in lowering the crime rate, in fact it has had the opposite effect and is one of the major reasons the crime rates continues to climb.

Statistics from the states with Conceal Carry have shown there is a strong negative relationship between the number of law-abiding citizens with permits and the crime rateas more people obtain permits there is a greater decline in violent crime rates.

In fact for each additional year that a concealed handgun law is in effect the murder rate declines by 3 percent, rape by 2 percent, and robberies by over 2 percent. In Illinois that is a significant ROI, wouldnt you say bobby?

Bobby, I know youll just sputter and stammer out that this information is just the hillbilly, NASCAR loving,NRA made up statistics.

You can look at the states that have concealed carry and see the reduction in crimes, or at Chicago and see the effect of the liberal- loonies laws that have taken away the rights of their citizens and caused a continual increase in crime rates. Of course if you don't like Chicago how about DC it's the same story there.

You know bobby, its the same Chicago Looney Liberals who have stalled the Illinois bill in a senate subcommittee and have done the same liberal good deed for all of us in Illinois.

Did they really increase the potential safety of the majority of citizens from those nasty gun owners or just reduce the risks for the criminals while committing their crimes? "

Bps wrote on Mar 12, 2009 5:48 PM:

" father bob wrote on Mar 12, 2009 4:40 PM:
sanity has shone through...."don't worry, be happy!" and good luck with that relaxing gig, i think you need some....LOL!

Bobby, bobby, your quick wit and sterling arguments have just been stunning.

No facts presented, no real ideas shown on your part, in fact nothing for me to counter, just a bunch of trolling.

I must have known you somewhere in the past. Based upon the quality (read that lack of) and strength of your arguments it must have been on the play ground at Lowell or some other grade school in town.

You must have been the guy stammering and saying sos your mother or some such all the time.

Well its been fun (not) but since you cant seem to grasp even the basics of the seriousness of this issue and the number of injuries and deaths that your looney-leftist buds from Chi-town have and continue to inflict on the Illinois citizenship, I bid you adieu.

Oh, one last question bobby, so which NASCAR hat do you favor bobby? "

Bps wrote on Mar 12, 2009 6:39 PM:

" The Question wrote on Mar 11, 2009 8:33 PM:
" The second amendment provides the right to own firearms and the ammunition that goes with them. It doesnt allow the citizen to own missiles, working weapons in tanks, WMDs,assault weapons and a whole lot of heavy duty stuff.
---
Why do you hate freedom, you commie? "
--------------------------------------
Bps wrote in reply on Mar 11, 2009 9:23 PM:
..since law enforcement doesnt have the legal responsibility to protect you or your loved ones how do you intend on meeting your duty to protect yourself or them?

Doesnt it make sense for people who not only have their FOID card, pass the required special background checks and also pass the training course on the responsibilities of conceal carry to responsibly carry for personal protection?

I await your response. "
======================================
The Question, you have responded to several other posts since this exchange, why have you chosen to not reply to my direct question to you?

It was a straight forward attempt to try to enter into a dialog with you so that I could gain an understanding of your reasoning for opposing something that can significantly enhance the capabilities of Illinois citizens to protect themselves.

Again, I await your response to my question or am I to assume you are just trolling like FB was? "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 12, 2009 7:34 PM:

" ---
Why do you hate freedom, you commie? "

Wow, now that's a real good way to get someone to dialog with you. lol! "

Bps wrote on Mar 12, 2009 9:02 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Mar 12, 2009 7:34 PM:

" ---
Why do you hate freedom, you commie? "

Wow, now that's a real good way to get someone to dialog with you. lol! "
--------------------------------------

Actually it is. You see the general idea is I ask you a sensible, honest question and you think about it, then reply with your sensible answer to the question. Thus using the the term discussion.

Of course I could use your somewhat satirical approach of giving a nonsense answer to a reasonable question and that would not be a dialog, instead it would be a poor joke or trolling.

Now do you get it? "

laveau wrote on Mar 13, 2009 12:56 AM:

" Wow, Harry Squatter now says I'm a floosie drink pusher pusher. By the way Squatter, its spelled "floozie" with a big "Z" in the middle, since you are always so grammatically correct in fixing others flaws. Not only does your humor suck, you stutter when you are cyber arguing with strangers. What's a pusher pusher anyway? Maybe you're just too old. Oh yeah, LOL! Maybe I can teach you some other abbreviations so you can stop with the extreme over-use of that piece of cyber slang. BRB, OMG, WTF, LMFAO...Just to name a few. Those should keep you busy for a week trying to figure them out. LOL buddy! "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 13, 2009 9:04 AM:

" floo⋅zy /ˈfluzi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [floo-zee] Show IPA
noun, plural -zies. Slang. a gaudily dressed, usually immoral woman, esp. a prostitute.

Also, floosie, floosy, floozie.
Origin:
190510; orig. uncert.

Apparently you're unaware that there is often more than one acceptable spelling for several words in the English language, Einstein. Floosie just happens to be such a word. And sometimes a word is repeated to double its emphasis, obviously you didn't know that either. No need to say thanks, I'm always more than happy to help the uneducated masses. LOL! "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 13, 2009 9:15 AM:

" For my favorite floo....well you know.

Computer Jargon: Chat, IM, and E-Mail Acronyms
AAK - Alive And Kicking
AAR - At Any Rate
AAS - Alive And Smiling
ADN - Any Day Now
AFAIK - As Far AsI Know
AFK - Away From the Keyboard
AFN - that's All For Now
AKA - Also Known As (you remeber this one...yep it's still alive)
AOTA - All Of The Above

Just to name a few, but I think I'll stick with LOL as that seems to get some of the lesser emotionally stable folks who post on here so inflamed.

Sorry, It didn't take me a week to find those terms, but I guess you were thinking of your poor search skills. LOL! "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 13, 2009 9:51 AM:

" Hey Bps, have you considered Dale Carnegie's best selling book? "

father bob wrote on Mar 13, 2009 11:10 AM:

" ROFLMAO!!....i think Bps is gonna blow a gasket!

he's whining just like our old friend Dorothy!

funny thing is, they think i actually read all that long list of blathering drivel they post....geeezzzzzzz "

Bps wrote on Mar 13, 2009 11:54 AM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Mar 13, 2009 9:51 AM:
" Hey Bps, have you considered Dale Carnegie's best selling book? "

Glad you mentioned it HP. Matter of fact I actually took a multiple week Dale Carnegie course as part of my personal education around 1989 or 90.

I really enjoyed all of the Books, the little handouts and the intense training sessions. It also really helped me in the public speaking and presentations I have done throughout my career. So nice of you to ask.

Well, enough chit-chat. I am still waiting on an answer from you to the last question I posed to you over in the "Radio-TV dials stop before Rush's frequency" thread. I know you probably have had a busy day, but when you can get around to it, I would appreciate a direct response to my question. "

Bps wrote on Mar 13, 2009 12:19 PM:

" father bob wrote on Mar 13, 2009 11:10 AM:
" ROFLMAO!!....i think Bps is gonna blow a gasket!

he's whining just like our old friend Dorothy!

funny thing is, they think i actually read all that long list of blathering drivel they post....geeezzzzzzz "
---------------------------------------
See there you go again FB. I have nicely asked you directly to answer a hand full of really simple questions.

Usually, one answers in a coherent, well thought out response. This is considered by the majority of intelligent thinkers and most of the users of this forum to be what a dialog is all about. You know the free exchange of ideas in a give and take manner.

Instead you dont seem disposed (or capable) of doing much but troll-troll along.

I am not surprised that you dont bother to read responses or other forum members entries. As I tried to point out to you in earlier posts, you really cant give an intelligent answer to a question unless you actually read and understand its contents.

And frankly in the last few months that I have followed this forum, I cant recall seeing anything in your responses that actually indicated that you did read, think and respond.

I am glad you have admitted for all to see, that you really arent a serious thinker and apparently cant or dont wish to have any meaningful dialog.

Oh, glad to see youre concerned about my health, but you see so far all your juvenile and pointless entries have done is prove what I have seen many others say about your posts.

So you have a good time trolling along and if and when you are actually ready to join the grownups table I will look forward to an actual dialog.

Till then ta-ta and you have a good time playing at the kiddie table. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 13, 2009 12:28 PM:

" ...he's whining just like our old friend Dorothy!

Considering that most people are pretty well ignoring his BBD name, perhaps he's really your friend Doh. I'm not saying he is, but his antagonistic style certainly is similar. "

Bps wrote on Mar 13, 2009 1:49 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Mar 13, 2009 12:28 PM:
" ...he's whining just like our old friend Dorothy!

Considering that most people are pretty well ignoring his BBD name, perhaps he's really your friend Doh. I'm not saying he is, but his antagonistic style certainly is similar. "

father bob since you have chosen to use your alternate persona- Ill address this to Harry

HP- as I said to FB in my previous post:

So you have a good time trolling along and if and when you are actually ready to join the grownups table I will look forward to an actual dialog.

Till then ta-ta and you have a good time playing at the kiddie table.

------------------------------
You see I am a grown up and I dont really have time to play troll wars with you right now, I have some real work to do.

I promise you when you grow up, youll understand.

You run along now and bother some other nice adult for a while or better yet take your ba-ba and blanky and take your afternoon nap. "

father bob wrote on Mar 13, 2009 3:16 PM:

" just wanted to make sure everyone saw this bit of wisdom from our very own self appointed moderator:

ed miller wrote on Mar 13, 2009 12:13 PM:
"The title of the letter made it perfectly clear that her letter was probably not going to agree with your viewpoints. If you did not care to read that, you could have simply skipped on to something else. """"" "

oldschool wrote on Mar 13, 2009 5:02 PM:

" Potter, I have a cold.....will you please make me some chicken noodle soup and bring it to me?....Friend

Thank you in advance for your hospitality....cough..cough. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 13, 2009 5:49 PM:

" You see I am a grown up and I dont really have time to play troll wars with you right now, I have some real work to do.

I promise you when you grow up, youll understand.

You run along now and bother some other nice adult for a while or better yet take your ba-ba and blanky and take your afternoon nap. "

Yeah, it sounds like you're a grown up all right.

I wasn't meaning to ignore your questions. It's just that after reading your first few posts I've been skipping over the rest of them. Most of your posts seem to consist of nothing but the rambling nonsense of someone not quite sure of what he really thinks or stands for. We have enough ignorant right wing reactionaries on here, so sorry, but I'll pass.

And if my posts are so offensive to you, I would suggest you do the same thing. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 13, 2009 7:15 PM:

" Potter, I have a cold.....will you please make me some chicken noodle soup and bring it to me?....Friend

Sure, but I'm not familiar with the visiting procedures and hours at the jail house.

I would put file in it, but they might not go for that. "

Bps wrote on Mar 13, 2009 9:17 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Mar 13, 2009 5:49 PM:
Yeah, it sounds like you're a grown up all right.

I wasn't meaning to ignore your questions. It's just that after reading your first few posts I've been skipping over the rest of them. Most of your posts seem to consist of nothing but the rambling nonsense of someone not quite sure of what he really thinks or stands for. We have enough ignorant right wing reactionaries on here, so sorry, but I'll pass.

And if my posts are so offensive to you, I would suggest you do the same thing.
-------------------------------------
Good for you HP! You posted something that actually has some content, not very meaningful, but actual content.

In fact it is really just a typical leftist, emotional rant. But it is your part of the dialog.

Now we can have my part of the dialog. Ill start with a critique of your opening:

I really liked your opening, really adult and hard hitting, right up there with your previous best- I've seen better from 10 year old kids. Or who could forget your memorable- just one real serious question for you Bps.......who's NASCAR cap you wearin'? "

Of course I dont know if we should consider the one you posted as your alternate persona:

father bob Mar 13, 2009 11:10 AM
funny thing is, they think i actually read all that long list of blathering drivel they post....geeezzzzzzz

As far as the rambling nonsense and the not quite sure of what he really thinks or stands for, I guess it means you actually attempted to read my post- you know the information you said you skip over. Of course it does make it appear you didn't read it very well.

See you missed the statistics, sources and clear statements of my position and the supporting reasoning behind them. Maybe thats because there arent any emotions shown, just statements support by facts.

I present facts and reasoning, you just followed the leftist stereotype of trying to make me angry.

Yes, my posts do run on a bit, but you see when one actually takes the time to really think about an issue, you tend to present meaningful information along with its sources.

It does take a little more room than the cutesy one liners, personal attacks or accusing everyone on being BDD as you tend to favor. In a real dialog facts actually mean more than leftist one liners and personal attacks.

Let us next tackle your statement that I dont know what I stand for. On the contrary, on issues where peoples constitutional rights, lives and personal safety are concerned I am very serious and committed to confronting folks like you, for I know exactly where I stand.

A handful of leftist from the corrupt Chicago Democrats (your brothers in liberalism) have once again condemned the law abiding people of this state to the everyday risk of being confronted by armed criminals without the basic right to legally defend themselves outside of their homes.

HP, this means people will be serious injured, raped and killed just to support yours and your leftist brethrens fear of an armed citizenry.

I do look forward to our next dialog, but please try to improve and actually include some facts the next time.

Of course since you say you dont bother to read other peoples posts, this logic will be lost on you once again, more the pity. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 14, 2009 10:00 AM:

" Harry, You and I stopped our problem. Which again I say Thank You. But again I also say that the ONLY way one can learn and see other peoples side is by listening "or in this case reading". You are cheating yourself by skipping peoples posts. Example shumphries has not said anything I can think of that ever made true sense, but I still read her posts just in case. "

Julio wrote on Mar 14, 2009 10:40 AM:

" Yeah Medic the NASCAR fans could just shoot at Gordon next time he wins Talladega. "

Bps wrote on Mar 14, 2009 11:37 AM:

" Julio wrote on Mar 14, 2009 10:40 AM:

" Yeah Medic the NASCAR fans could just shoot at Gordon next time he wins Talladega. "
-----------------------------------
Alabama does allow concealed carry if one applies for a permit, follows all of the background checks, certification and training requirements, and is accepted.

In Alabama a license to conceal carry firearms does not authorize any person to carry a concealed firearm into:

Any airport, courthouse or any other public building that specifically prohibits firearms.
Any city, state and federal facilities.
Any public gatherings such as sporting events, political events, parades, etc.

All very reasonable restrictions.

If a person with CC did bring a concealed handgun to the race, under the Alabama law they would be committing a criminal act.

Commiting the crime you used as an example in your post would be no different then any other nut case bringing a bomb, knife, or other dangerous device and committing the crime as you proposed.

Since they already have concealed carry and such an act hasnt happened, it would seem that these nasty gun owners who happen to like NASCAR events, must have at least a modicum of self restraint.

There are only two states where concealed carry is illegal- Illinois and Wisconsin.

Illinois, held hostage by the Chicago Democrats who only support Conceal Carry for the criminals- you know the ones who don't follow the laws to begin with. "

open your eyes wrote on Mar 14, 2009 12:04 PM:

" QUESTION " No one gets beat in my house!
---
I presume you mean "beaten." Clearly, you don't play Scrabble in between sessions of oiling your assault rifle to prepare for the next wave of attackers that will attempt to invade your home.
If you did, you would be beaten regularly. "

You presume wrong,again.

In the real world,there is a difference between beat and beaten.

My gun is always oiled and clean."44 MAGNUM RUGER REDHAWK"

I do have more important things to do besides PLAYING SCRABBLE and seting behind my pc running my mouth about someones english.

It seems that is your strongest attribute.

Of course you can always defend yourself with your dictionary.Don't forget to oil it.

If you are attacked and BEAT, while you are dying,you can always pray to your dictionary,and other books, and ask forgiveness.
Don't forget to check my spelling.After all that's what is important. "

oldschool wrote on Mar 14, 2009 12:25 PM:

" Great...I ask for some TLC and all I get is beatdown!!

Runny nose, itchy eyes.....=beatdown....OUCH

I get any more love and compassion from Potter I'll end up with the flu!!

Change I can believe in ?? "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 14, 2009 5:45 PM:

" Sorry Rohn, but we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I have no desire to read what this guy says. There are some who post on here who would never concede a point, and I imagine he's one of them. I have said this time and time again, you can't win by arguing with fools and liars. And I get to choose who I characterize as either. And keep in mind there are others that I skip over too, and I'm sure there are those who skip over what I post. I'm sure there are a lot of folks who are offended by what I post, so I don't blame them for ignoring my messages. What I don't understand is why people will continue to read the messages of those they disagree with and continue to whine about it. Just like most people don't read the newspaper from front to back including every printed word, I choose to ignore certain people and things on this site.

Besides that, I'm already poking fun of one pompous gasbag, and that's enough for now. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 15, 2009 9:38 AM:

" oldschool wrote on Mar 14, 2009 12:25 PM:

" Great...I ask for some TLC and all I get is beatdown!!

OK, now stop your whining and get going with the slurpy love notes you've been posting to your hero. He's been taking some pretty good hits from nj, so I'm sure his bruised ego could use some of your little sychophantic messages. lol! "

Bps wrote on Mar 15, 2009 9:56 AM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Mar 14, 2009 5:45 PM:
Besides that, I'm already poking fun of one pompous gasbag, and that's enough for now.
------------------------------------
And I want to thank you for playing along HP.

It is apparent from your history of meaningless posts and your tendency to poke fun at people who care on serious issues that you cant change.

In one of your two personas you had made over 20 posts before I entered my first.

It was addressed specifically to the three screen names that made the silliest and lamest posts. You were the one who decided to play the game.

Every time you rattled my cage, it gave me a chance to use you as a foil to present facts and arguments to those people in the middle who really do think and care.

See HP only 1/3 of all eligible voters are to the left like you with 1/3 to the right. HP it is really, really hard to get loony leftists and die-hard rightist to change their views.

By using your tendency to bombastically poke fun and your tendency to loose your temper, it allowed me to try to reach the 1/3 in the middle who actually decides all issues and elections.

They actually have an open mind and really do read and think, unlike you have admitted you dont.

The ones I wanted to reach will take the time to read the long posts like I used.

If only 1% of the centrist now have a better understanding of the facts, I accomplished my goal.

So from the pompous gasbag, once again-thanks for playing HP. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 15, 2009 1:06 PM:

" LMAO @ Harry
Great answer lol. And I see what you mean, the way you and BDD go at it there would be no way to add anyone else on you're poke at list LMAO.
Keep up the good work all. "

Bps wrote on Mar 15, 2009 2:37 PM:

" Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 15, 2009 1:06 PM:
" LMAO @ Harry
Great answer lol. And I see what you mean, the way you and BDD go at it there would be no way to add anyone else on you're poke at list LMAO.
Keep up the good work all. "
------------------------------------
Rohn Gordon, good points in both of your last posts.

Most of my posts were to present some actual facts into this thread as consideration points for those who have an open mind and really wanted some information on the issue.

But, you are right that this thread has gone on way to long.

Ill just join the majority of this site and just let HP be HP or what ever other new persona he chooses to use.

Also, like you Ill actually continue to read his posts and hope that someday there will be some nugget of useful information.

Although I do have to say, his one post I was able to catch before it got caught and deleted was funny. I understand why it was deleted, but it was funny. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 15, 2009 3:35 PM:

" Yes Harry, nj's really been dazzling me with his brilliant responses.

For instance,

When an unsourced quote from Hitler's Mein Kampf was address to me, injustice85 (your little Crayola-Tech Einstein of the junior college 6 year certificate plan) responded with this little gem:

(HITLER QUOTE: "Once again the songs of the Fatherland roared to the heavens along the endless marching columns, and for the last time the Lord's grace smiled on His ungrateful children."
-Guess who?")

(INJUSICE85 REPLIES - "lol ya know if you're speaking about me Locke I really don't think you know me well enough to decide whther I'm grateful or not, I am more than grateful because I've known what it means to have nothing, same goes for those who call me spoiled, I am probably the most unspoiled person you'd meet out of my age group of people, and last I remember the so called land of the free was preventing your songs of the fatherland from reaching the heavens, last I knew you couldn't sing songs in school anymore during christmas time that had God or Jesus references and in some situations you can't even openly discuss such matters, land of the free don't tread on me lol ")

(ginormous eyeroll!)

You must be soooo proud Harry. LMAO! "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 15, 2009 3:42 PM:

" (Harry - "I have said this time and time again, you can't win by arguing with fools and liars. And I get to choose who I characterize as either.")

Uhm....no Harry.

The definition of "liar" should be based on provable FACTS, not your personal opinion, you dolt.

We all have a right to our own opinions, we do NOT have a right to our own set of FACTS.

(Harry - "Besides that, I'm already poking fun of one pompous gasbag, and that's enough for now.")

Oh, I didn't realize that you and The Question had a lovers spat, Harry.

Do tell.......... "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 15, 2009 3:51 PM:

" Harry ole boy,

You've been so busy playing the nurturing Mama-Troll to injustice85's burnt-out little Baby-Troll that I noticed you've forgotten to post under your fatherbob name for last couple of days.

Are you going to bring back that Goliath of intellect or is junior85 your new BrownBack Mountain Boy? "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 15, 2009 4:01 PM:

" Ever since nj got the best of Dorothy out on her nonexistent career, she's really been wound up and spitting and sputtering. Perhaps it's Amway. Nah, I'm still betting it's WalMart or a paper route. But I was impressed that she was able to obtain a college degree in a few short weeks. lol! "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 15, 2009 4:36 PM:

" Hey uhm....Harry?

What was your career again?

And what was that bogus claim that you made about a Phi Beta Kappa Key key? LMAO!

That one still makes me laugh.

Oh and, tell us Harry, what was nj's grand accomplishments in life? "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 15, 2009 4:40 PM:

" Oh and Harry,

show us your evidence where I claimed to have obtained a college degree in a week.

Cite it.

And what did your education consist of again?

Oh and cite THAT too.

Prove it. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 15, 2009 5:12 PM:

" Down boy, down boy....lol! "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 15, 2009 5:57 PM:

" (Harry Potter wrote on Mar 15, 2009 5:12 PM:
" Down boy, down boy....lol! ")

Well Harry, while your barking commands to ingenious85,

maybe you can tell us all about your academic achievements and your illustrious career.

Or are you too busy teaching Baby-Troll (The Crayola-Tech Scholar) the rudimentary points of reading comprehension? "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 15, 2009 7:34 PM:

" See folks, all I had to do was pull a few strings and old Dorothy's jumping all over the place.

Jump Dorothy jump.... lol! "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 15, 2009 8:07 PM:

" Oh I think it's evident that I'm pulling your strings little clown.

You can dodge and spin all you want Harry.

But uhm....I still didn't catch what exactly your academic achievements and your career consist of.

You seem to be quite afraid to tell us about that part of your life don't you Harry.

Why is that?

Now spin and dodge little clown.

Dance clown dance. "

HeinekenMan wrote on Mar 15, 2009 8:59 PM:

" I just want to comment on something Tom Andres said early in this conversation about NASCAR and shootings.

About 10 miles from me, someone was shot and killed on the highway after a NASCAR race. The shooter started a fight because he was trying to bypass traffic on the shoulder of the road. Someone steered onto the shoulder to block the guy. His response was to get out and fire a few shots. It was perfectly legal for him to have that loaded gun here. But it didn't protect him. Instead, it took away a father and husband.

For every instance of a person stopping a crime with a concealed weapon, I can point to 10 or 20 instances where a concealed weapon was used to kill an innocent person. And, in many of those cases, the death would not have occurred had the person not been packing a loaded gun. A gun gives someone the ability to fire and kill long before rational thought can take over. That's part of the problem.

I don't think anyone wants to limit a person's rights. But you have to remember that I also have the right to not be subject to death simply because someone is extremely angry at me or someone else.

Some people, of course, are going to commit violent crimes with guns even if there are no concealed carry laws. But I see no reason to de-criminalize it and make it easier. "

Bps wrote on Mar 15, 2009 10:41 PM:

" HeinekenMan wrote on Mar 15, 2009 8:59 PM:

" I just want to comment on something Tom Andres said early in this conversation about NASCAR and shootings.

About 10 miles from me, someone was shot and killed on the highway after a NASCAR race. The shooter started a fight because he was trying to bypass traffic on the shoulder of the road. Someone steered onto the shoulder to block the guy. His response was to get out and fire a few shots. It was perfectly legal for him to have that loaded gun here. But it didn't protect him. Instead, it took away a father and husband.

For every instance of a person stopping a crime with a concealed weapon, I can point to 10 or 20 instances where a concealed weapon was used to kill an innocent person. And, in many of those cases, the death would not have occurred had the person not been packing a loaded gun. A gun gives someone the ability to fire and kill long before rational thought can take over. That's part of the problem.

I don't think anyone wants to limit a person's rights. But you have to remember that I also have the right to not be subject to death simply because someone is extremely angry at me or someone else.

Some people, of course, are going to commit violent crimes with guns even if there are no concealed carry laws. But I see no reason to de-criminalize it and make it easier.

HeinekenMan-
--------------------------------------
Since this wasnt specifically addressed to Tom Andres, I hope you dont mind if I comment on it and ask you a couple of questions.

First, I totally agree with you that the instance you state is a terrible crime and the perpetrator should be prosecuted and punished to the maximum extent of law. My heart also goes out to the loved ones of this crime, just as it does to the victims of any crime.

I also support your stand that you have an expected right of safety from someone who is angry at you. I would suppose that like me, you might also agree that you would also want safety from all forms of criminal activity for yourself and loved ones against a rapist, armed thief, etc.

My first questions is could it be that the 10 to 20 instances you state as familiar to you might be because these types of things get very heavily publicized, while stopping a crime by an armed citizen isnt well published or even reported unless it results in some form of bodily injury?

The reason I ask, is because the statistics I have found state that Conceal Carry States show a strong negative relationship between the number of law-abiding citizens with permits and the crime rate. They show that in the states with CC, for each additional year that a concealed handgun law is in effect on average the murder rate declines by 3 percent, rape by 2 percent, and robberies by over 2 percent.

I am one of those folks, who think that after an extensive background check, certified conceal carry training and a local police background check that a law abiding citizen should be granted a permit for conceal carry. Not to threaten any fellow citizen, but to be used in the case of self defense.

I also support that any gun crimes committed by one who has a CC permit should carry a much harsher sentence when they are convicted.

Would these types of controls make any difference in your opposition to concealed carry? "

injustice85 wrote on Mar 16, 2009 12:52 AM:

" BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 15, 2009 3:42 PM:

" (Harry - "I have said this time and time again, you can't win by arguing with fools and liars. And I get to choose who I characterize as either.")

Uhm....no Harry.

The definition of "liar" should be based on provable FACTS, not your personal opinion, you dolt.

We all have a right to our own opinions, we do NOT have a right to our own set of FACTS.

...what like redefining the word "liar" and ranting off uneducated comments, c'mon now Mr. Uneducated don't be a hypocrit too, oh wait you are like complaining to Harry for calling you out for posting as BPS and then you turn around and accuse him of being father bob, your breakdown is right around the corner... "

injustice85 wrote on Mar 16, 2009 12:55 AM:

" BPS even copies and pastes...just like BBD always does, we've gone from Big Bad Dufus to Big Pathetic S!@#head all in one sitting, kinda like BLUEDOGS education "

open your eyes wrote on Mar 16, 2009 3:57 AM:

" For every instance of a person stopping a crime with a concealed weapon, I can point to 10 or 20 instances where a concealed weapon was used to kill an innocent person

Taught that guy not to block the road.

In many instances would they have killed anyway.
How do you know that a crazy person like that was even legally carring a gun.
The man in the car should have been legally carrying.He would have had a chance of still being here.

The criminals will do still have guns.

I'll take a bullet over a knife or bat anytime.Better thn being a live vegetable. "

open your eyes wrote on Mar 16, 2009 5:26 AM:

" For every instance of a person stopping a crime with a concealed weapon, I can point to 10 or 20 instances where a concealed weapon was used to kill an innocent person.

2.45 million crimes thwarted each year in the United States,
Show me 24.5 million of your stories.

People with a criminal record are also more likely to die as homicide victims.[16] Between 1990 and 1994, 75% of all homicide victims age 21 and younger in the city of Boston had a prior criminal record.[27] In Philadelphia, the percentage of those killed in gun homicides that had prior criminal records increased from 73% in 1985 to 93% in 1996.[16][28] In Richmond, Virginia, the risk of gunshot injury is 22 times higher for those males involved with crime

The findings of the McDowall's study for the American Journal of Public Health contrast with the findings of a 1993 study by Gary Kleck, who finds that as many as 2.45 million crimes are thwarted each year in the United States, and in most cases, the potential victim never fires a shot in these cases where firearms are used constructively for self-protection.[58] The results of the Kleck studies have been cited many times in scholarly and popular media.[59][60][61][62][63][64][65]

McDowell cites methodological issues with the Kleck studies, claiming that Kleck used a very small sample size and did not confine self-defense to attempted victimizations where physical attacks had already commenced.[56] The former criticism, however, is inaccurate Kleck's survey with Marc Gertz in fact used the largest sample size of any survey that ever asked respondents about defensive gun use 4,977 cases, far more than is typical in national surveys.[66] A study of gun use in the 1990s, by David Hemenway at the Harvard Injury Control Research Center, found that criminal use of guns is far more common than self-defense use of guns.[67] By the Kleck study, however, most successful preventions of victimizations are accomplished without a shot being fired, which are not counted as a self-defense firearm usage by either the Hemenway or McDowell studies.[56][67][58]

1996.[16][28] injury is 22 times higher for those males involved with crim "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 16, 2009 7:22 AM:

" Poster nj85 calls poster BluDogDemocrat out regarding his continued refusal to discuss his career choice and educational attainment. Poster BlueDogDemocrat's response was to start hounding me over my education and career choice. And even goes so far as to ask the question of my job and education over and over on several threads. Typical dodge the question and change the subject diversionary tactic he always uses.

Isn't it ironic that someone who has steadfastly refused to discuss his education or job on this site would be so demanding about some one else's?

And of course BBD continues to insult anyone who ever attend LLC with his continued put down of that fine institution. But of course we can expect his usual disclaimer and attempt to take the high road after I've called him out for his LLC put downs. (Watch his spin on this one)

I think it is pretty obvious that the poster now using the name of BBD is hiding something with his smoke and mirrors diversionary game playing. He's been doing that from day one.

In closing, why does our friend BBD shy away from nj's question, and why does he always demand answers to questions he refuses to answer himself?

We all know the answer, it's because he is what he accuses everyone else of being, a pathetic coward. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 16, 2009 8:17 AM:

" What do you do to support yourself, junior85? How do you make a living?

I didn't catch that.

And why are you still in a junior college at 23 years of age?

I didn't catch that either.

And what is your Major again?

I don't think you told us kid.

And what EXACTLY does your life experience consist of?

I missed that one as well. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 16, 2009 8:22 AM:

" Since the paper decided to archive all of the threads dealing with national politics, and since the resident right wingers turn every thread into a place to vent their Obama hatred anyway, I am posting the following on this thread:

Washington Post:

The International Committee of the Red Cross concluded in a secret report that the Bush administration's treatment of al-Qaeda captives "constituted torture," a finding that strongly implied that CIA interrogation methods violated international law, according to newly published excerpts from the long-concealed 2007 document.

The report, an account alleging physical and psychological brutality inside CIA "black site" prisons, also states that some U.S. practices amounted to "cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment." Such maltreatment of detainees is expressly prohibited by the Geneva Conventions.

Just another Bush fact....

As more and more comes about about this regime, I predict Bush's legasy will slide into the gutter at an ever faster rate. Is it any wonder he's struggling to come up with the money to build his library? Even the Republican fat cats are keeping their distance from this disgraced reprobate.

Perhaps the local Bush apologists like eddie miller can do a car wash to help raise some money for Bush. Aunt Dorothy could even do a bake sale. lol! "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 16, 2009 8:28 AM:

" You still didn't tell us about your career did you Harry?

No you didn't.

You still haven't told us about your "education" have you Harry?

Uhm....nope.

It's strange that you would be questioning me when have yet to give us any information about your background. Are you trying to divert attention away from your own education and career?

Yeah. It would appear so.

You also called into question Ed Millers military service didn't you Harry?

Yes. Yes you did.

You and your little Troll-Baby junior85 seem to be the self appointed career-counselors around here all of a sudden.

So tell us all about your impressive education and career, Harry. And don't forget to throw in the one about the PBK key. LOL.

I could use a good laugh today. "

Julio wrote on Mar 16, 2009 8:30 AM:

" I just feel uncomforatable with the average Joe packin' a pistol in public.
I do think we should ban assault rifles however. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 16, 2009 8:42 AM:

" (injustice85 - "what like redefining the word "liar" and ranting off uneducated comments...")

More brilliance from the 23 year old highly experienced Scholar who's apparently enrolled in the 6 year Certificate program at the local 2 year junior college.

I'll try to dumb this down for you, burn-out:

Lie- an inaccurate or false statement.

How do you know if a statement is inaccurate or false, junior?

By researching the FACTS relating to the particular statement.

Harry doesn't use FACTS to back up his assertions. He uses OPINION.

Change your bong-water....."dude". "

Becky wrote on Mar 16, 2009 9:16 AM:

" So Question, since a father mistakenly ran over his daughter the other day backing out of his driveway, not knowing she was there, killing her, should we now outlaw all cars? Or how about the hungry that our hunters fed last fall with the abundance of deer meat that they donated to local food pantries? Should that be outlawed too? Our government could care less if we lowlifes kill each other. They want our guns so when the rioting starts, we won't be armed. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 16, 2009 9:41 AM:

" (Harry Potter wrote on Mar 16, 2009 7:22 AM:
"Poster nj85 calls poster BluDogDemocrat out regarding his continued refusal to discuss his career choice and educational attainment.")

Exactly.

INJUSTICE85 (the 23 year old all wise and highly-educated scholar) introduced the issue of career and education to this debate.

Why?

And Harry joined injustice85.

Why?

I already stated that I was not about to jeopardize my anonymity by revealing details about my education or my career. And I've never questioned anyones academic or career achievements unless they instigated the point.

Which leads to the next question:

Why isn't Harry revealing all the details about his background?

And why isn't junior85 pressing Harry?

Why is this Harry?

Why? "

The Question wrote on Mar 16, 2009 11:11 AM:

" When you gun worshippers are fantasizing about your concealed-carry fire fight with armed criminals, be sure to throw in a forward roll from which you spring to your feet with catlike agility and fire in one motion, nailing the bad guy. Those are such fun.
Heck, you might as well throw in a jet pack, too. As long as you're fantasizing, knock yourselves out. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 16, 2009 11:41 AM:

" To BDD I totally agree with Harry on the problem of you're refusal to talk about you're schooling and livelihood. You can tell us what work field you are in without jeopardizing clients, unless you're real name is BDD. LMAO
And Harry maybe you should show BDD and everyone else you are the bigger man and tell us what yours is.
Mine is simple high school education, over the road driver, owned a painting business and raced horses. After 2 heart attacks, now 9 stints, 5 bypasses and 2 balloons I am now 46 and disabled. I collect $0 of any kind. $0 dollars of Medicaid. $0 of public aid of any kind. My family lives on what my wife makes in her job, and her work insurance. We survive week to week like many people do. "

HeinekenMan wrote on Mar 16, 2009 11:42 AM:

" Oddly enough, I just went to my local paper to find some stories about gun-related crime. The very first story is brand new. Armed robbery of a drug store. Another story is about a gunfight that grew out of a war of words. A story from March 12 is about a police officer who accidentally shot himself. A story from March 6 is about a SWAT team member who accidentally shot himself. Also on March 12, a kid was arrested for carrying a concealed weapon, which he had on the beach during an outbreak of fights between students who were skipping school. On March 11, there was a man with a gun who robbed a bank. On March 8, another man committed armed robbery with a gun. On March 7, there's a story about a guy firing at a deputy.

Every single day, someone commits a gun crime here. I don't need to look at statistics. It's clear that concealed carry laws are doing nothing to stop crime here. But they are making it legal for someone to walk down the street with a loaded gun.

Oh, and an hour ago, a man shot his own brother in an argument over a can of pop.

Meanwhile, we have armed rapists patrolling the streets and impersonating officers.

I love Dirt Harry movies, too. But they aren't documentaries. "

The Question wrote on Mar 16, 2009 12:22 PM:

" So Question, since a father mistakenly ran over his daughter the other day backing out of his driveway, not knowing she was there, killing her, should we now outlaw all cars?
---
No, Becky, I wouldn't want to outlaw all cars. But I wouldn't want you to carry one around concealed under your jacket, just in case you had to whip it out for a sudden high-speed chase. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 16, 2009 12:52 PM:

" (Rohn - "To BDD I totally agree with Harry on the problem of you're refusal to talk about you're schooling and livelihood. You can tell us what work field you are in without jeopardizing clients, unless you're real name is BDD.")

No Rohn. If I revealed the field that I'm in, it would quickly narrow the possibilities. There's no way I'm going to risk that.

I'm not the one who made this an issue in the first place. This was all instigated by the Troll-twins Harry and Junior. It's obvious that Junior85 and Harry are simply trying to figure out my identity. And by the way, junior's demanding that all anonymous posters start revealing their real identities in here. He's quite the self appointed moral-police around here.

Of course none of this has anything to do with any of the debates in here, does it Rohn? But hey, feel free to reveal your address and phone number while you're at it Rohn. Might as well go for broke. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 16, 2009 1:05 PM:

" LOOKS LIKE HARRY'S GOT BIG WORRIES THAN ME.

(ed miller wrote on Mar 16, 2009 11:53 AM:
" Harry Potter wrote on Mar 15, 2009 5:25 PM:
"I mention an award I recieved in college on here, and automatically the gasbag assumes I'm lying"

Sorry, but being voted 3rd runner up for prom queen doesn't hold much water.

Funny how I've mentioned my service in Iraq in plenty of the war debate threads and you choose now to call me a liar.

Tell you what, post your real name and address and I will come over in my uniform with my medals and even carry my record for extra proof. ")

+++++++++

RFLMAO

YOU'VE JUST BEEN CALLED OUT HARRY.

Big Time. LOL "

injustice85 wrote on Mar 16, 2009 1:16 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Mar 16, 2009 7:22 AM:

" Poster nj85 calls poster BluDogDemocrat out regarding his continued refusal to discuss his career choice and educational attainment. Poster BlueDogDemocrat's response was to start hounding me over my education and career choice. And even goes so far as to ask the question of my job and education over and over on several threads. Typical dodge the question and change the subject diversionary tactic he always uses.

Isn't it ironic that someone who has steadfastly refused to discuss his education or job on this site would be so demanding about some one else's?

And of course BBD continues to insult anyone who ever attend LLC with his continued put down of that fine institution. But of course we can expect his usual disclaimer and attempt to take the high road after I've called him out for his LLC put downs. (Watch his spin on this one)

I think it is pretty obvious that the poster now using the name of BBD is hiding something with his smoke and mirrors diversionary game playing. He's been doing that from day one.

In closing, why does our friend BBD shy away from nj's question, and why does he always demand answers to questions he refuses to answer himself?

We all know the answer, it's because he is what he accuses everyone else of being, a pathetic coward. "

...you know how it goes Harry, now that BBD is caught in her lie she can't find the road out of it so she will continue to CHA CHA around the issue "

injustice85 wrote on Mar 16, 2009 1:26 PM:

" BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 16, 2009 8:17 AM:

" What do you do to support yourself, junior85? How do you make a living?

I didn't catch that.

And why are you still in a junior college at 23 years of age?

I didn't catch that either.

And what is your Major again?

I don't think you told us kid.

And what EXACTLY does your life experience consist of?

I missed that one as well. "

Well actually yes I did when I posted my grades, I took you for uneducated not illiterate but...sense you ask...I'm a Communications major graduating with an associates in May, May 15th to be exact for your records, In my first year I went to vice president of the broadcasters not to mention attending every event voluntarily to show my support, as of now I am responsible for 48 news stories per week to provide to the broadcast writing students at LLC, I am responsible for creating and recording a commercial per week for the station, I am responsible for being on air for at least 3 hours per week, I am responsible for voicetracking myself for 2 hours a week, I am responsible for operating the equipment for every baseball, basketball, and football game broadcast by WLKL, On top of that I am responsible for raising my 4 year old in the process, I am responsible for managing 6 classes on the side of all that, as for experience I don't know your exact qualifications but I have promoted every charity on air within a 30 mile radius, I have participated in raising money for local children to have a good christmas, I have been a member of the Big Brothers program, I have volunteered for LLC's eigth grade career fair where we educate the future about LLC and what we can do for them, I have spent 3 years of my life homeless slowly watching my mother lose everything we had ever worked for in life, if I've forgotten anything I will be sure to fill you in later, aside from that I will be attending EIU in the fall to continue my road towards a masters in communications, soooo, now that I have shown what it means to NOT be a coward I ask, what do you do? tell us about your month spent in college because we are all dying to know and oh perhaps afterwards we will accuse you of lying simply because we're sour at all you've done, I don't know about you but for 23 I think I'm doing fine, what were your achievments at 23 BBD? "

injustice85 wrote on Mar 16, 2009 1:27 PM:

" Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 16, 2009 11:41 AM:

" To BDD I totally agree with Harry on the problem of you're refusal to talk about you're schooling and livelihood. You can tell us what work field you are in without jeopardizing clients, unless you're real name is BDD. LMAO
And Harry maybe you should show BDD and everyone else you are the bigger man and tell us what yours is.
Mine is simple high school education, over the road driver, owned a painting business and raced horses. After 2 heart attacks, now 9 stints, 5 bypasses and 2 balloons I am now 46 and disabled. I collect $0 of any kind. $0 dollars of Medicaid. $0 of public aid of any kind. My family lives on what my wife makes in her job, and her work insurance. We survive week to week like many people do. "

...Well done Rohn and Thank You "

injustice85 wrote on Mar 16, 2009 1:28 PM:

" BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 16, 2009 9:41 AM:Why isn't Harry revealing all the details about his background?

And why isn't junior85 pressing Harry?

...simple, Harry never called me out on my grades or hit me up for what I did or how educated I was, YOU DID now MAN UP BBD the time is now, pull the tail out the legs and be top dog "

injustice85 wrote on Mar 16, 2009 1:31 PM:

" BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 16, 2009 8:42 AM:

" (injustice85 - "what like redefining the word "liar" and ranting off uneducated comments...")

More brilliance from the 23 year old highly experienced Scholar who's apparently enrolled in the 6 year Certificate program at the local 2 year junior college.

I'll try to dumb this down for you, burn-out:

Lie- an inaccurate or false statement.

How do you know if a statement is inaccurate or false, junior?

By researching the FACTS relating to the particular statement.

Harry doesn't use FACTS to back up his assertions. He uses OPINION.

Change your bong-water....."dude". "

... a little fact for you, what you do on here could be considered plagarism BBD, just because YOU claim something as a fact doesn't mean a thing, you resort to such posts because your opinions are non existent, liars tend to lack their own personality "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 16, 2009 2:06 PM:

" An intelligent thought on the (non)impact of Rush Limbaugh on national politics:

The analysis on Rush is easy. Historically, he has had zero impact on the outcome of elections. Every day during the 2008 presidential primaries, he attacked John McCain and predicted McCain would never win in the primaries. All the anti-McCain hate talk Rush could dish out had no effect on the outcome. Next, Rush tried to show that he had political muscle by calling Barack Obama a communist and a Kenyan illegal immigrant. Rush was certain that his vast political influence would end Obama's presidential hopes. But the truth is Limbaugh's political influence is not vast at all.

Obama won by a landslide and made the GOP look like a flailing regional political party.

Mike Papantonio- "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 16, 2009 2:09 PM:

" Cheney believes that the federal government can ignore the Geneva Conventions, binding treaties largely written by the United States, signed by the president and ratified by the Senate. He believes that the federal government can commit torture, despite laws and treaties making torture a crime.

Paul Bagala- "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 16, 2009 2:53 PM:

" HeinekenMan Where do you live?? And also how many other crimes did the CC stop that is not on your list? "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 16, 2009 4:03 PM:

" ... liars tend to lack their own personality "

Ouch! nj lands direct hit! "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 16, 2009 4:44 PM:

" My achievment at 23? - A Bachelor's Degree.

Oh, and full-time employment.

I didn't catch any mention of employment in your vast novel of amazing (and completely unverified) acomplishments, junior.

("...simple, Harry never called me out on my grades or hit me up for what I did or how educated I was, YOU DID now MAN UP BBD the time is now, pull the tail out the legs and be top dog ")

As I recall, junior, YOU were the one who jumped on the "education" questions a month or so ago when you posted your "grades". Or have you forgotten about that little detail, junior?

Oh and, when I was in college "Communications Major" translated into: Failed Musician/Theatre Art Majors. LOL

How much of your life and your education has been funded by the tax payers, Young Einstein?

Oh and, any police record? "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 16, 2009 4:52 PM:

" (injustice85 - "... a little fact for you, what you do on here could be considered plagarism BBD, just because YOU claim something as a fact doesn't mean a thing, you resort to such posts because your opinions are non existent, liars tend to lack their own personality ")

ROFLMAO!

Plagiarism LOL.

Stop it Burn-Out, you're killing me!

You know something kid? You're beginning to sound very very similar to another poster in here who hasn't been "around" as much since our little "tete-a-tete".

Now bring on the Law Suits "dude"! LOL. "

The Question wrote on Mar 16, 2009 5:29 PM:

" FOX News misleadingly edited a clip of Joe Biden quoting John McCain saying the "fundamentals of the economy are strong" and presented it as "proof" that BIDEN currently holds that view.
Typical right-wing lying swine. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 16, 2009 5:52 PM:

" Hey Harry,

Did you ever answer Ed Miller? "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 16, 2009 6:20 PM:

" That's not the first time Fox has been caught creatively editing, TQ. I guess you could say they do more than report the news, they actually "make" it. Just like a certain wacky right wing mongrel on here, those folks have no shame. "

injustice85 wrote on Mar 16, 2009 6:28 PM:

" BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 16, 2009 4:44 PM:

" My achievment at 23? - A Bachelor's Degree.

Oh, and full-time employment.

I didn't catch any mention of employment in your vast novel of amazing (and completely unverified) acomplishments, junior.

("...simple, Harry never called me out on my grades or hit me up for what I did or how educated I was, YOU DID now MAN UP BBD the time is now, pull the tail out the legs and be top dog ")

As I recall, junior, YOU were the one who jumped on the "education" questions a month or so ago when you posted your "grades". Or have you forgotten about that little detail, junior?

Oh and, when I was in college "Communications Major" translated into: Failed Musician/Theatre Art Majors. LOL

How much of your life and your education has been funded by the tax payers, Young Einstein?

Oh and, any police record? "

lol you know you can look at judici.com anytime bluedog lol, Communications major translates into televison work or radio work or public relations etc. I have no idea where you get arts or theatre lol unless you went to clown school, so we've got a supposed education, what school did you attend Bluedog? What was your major in or did you not want to mention that....so when are you going to post your grades or can you not hack that either? Employment is at school, I get paid to work through school doing work for my major, so tell me what did you do with your "major"? Oh yeah and this business...lol do tell, You made an attempt to be an adult but not good enough, I must be getting to you to get that much out of you, now continue to be an adult and keep on going BBD, plagarism or no you still have one talent:posting news stories, sounds like you should have gotten into Communications lol, Before Harry answers or whenever he decides to, perhaps you should finish telling us about yourself or at least matching the info I've given, c'mon now bark and bite buddy "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 16, 2009 6:44 PM:

" Republican Rep. Bill Posey of Florida has introduced a bill that would require presidential candidates to present proof of U.S. citizenship before running for office. The bill, he says, would prevent future legal arguments, like the one that continues to persist (if only on the internet) about President Barack Obama's eligibility to serve.

"Opponents of President Obama are raising the birth certificate issue as a means of questioning his eligibility to serve as president," Posey said in a statement. "This bill, by simply requiring such documentation for future candidates for president, will remove this issue as a reason for questioning the legitimacy of a candidate elected as president."
According to Politico, Posey's bill has no co-sponsors yet.

Obama has actually produced a copy of his Hawaii birth certificate, and it has been certified by the state of Hawaii. The so-called "birther" movement, however, is calling for Obama to release his original birth certificate.

Huffington post-

This is just another example of how out of touch the GOP is. With all the problems we have, this is the best they can do? That party is in dire need of some leadership. By that I mean some one other than a bunch of cartoon characters like Limbaugh, Palin and Joe the plumbers helper. No wonder the right wing posters are so intent on making the Obama the focus on here, really, after looking at what's going on with their party, can you blame them? "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 16, 2009 7:10 PM:

" BDD I was not trying to make you look wrong. If you say you can not even mention you're field I also believe that. If I was worried about something I would not tell mine either. So because you told me that it could cause you problems I do not blame you for not posting it. It matters not to me what anyone in here do, it will not make me agree with them, any faster or slower. I could give a crap less if you are a investment banker or homeless, it will not make me think any more or less of you, you're beliefs or you're thoughts. You see I was just asking in a way no one had asked is all. I also asked Harry in the same post when I stated he could show who was the bigger man and post his but still no post there either.
Oh by the way BDD here is you're wishes > Rohn Gordon 2601 Pine Av. Mattoon, Il. 61938 Phone # is (217) 234-4403. You see I don't worry I will NEVER say something on here I will not tell a person to their face. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Mar 16, 2009 7:22 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Mar 16, 2009 6:44 PM:

" Republican Rep. Bill Posey of Florida has introduced a bill that would require presidential candidates to present proof of U.S. citizenship before running for office.
------------------------------------
I agree with that 100% it should have been like that already.
And also we all know there is something weird about this birth certificate stuff. When Obama went to Hawaii and had every thing froze and locked away, said loud and clear that something is goofy. "

The Question wrote on Mar 16, 2009 7:37 PM:

" Yes, Harry, and now, as somebody said, even the ranting buffoon Bill O'Reilly is being outgunned on Fox News by crazy-come-latelies like Glenn Beck, who continues to drool fascist gibberish about overthrowing the U.S. government. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 16, 2009 8:51 PM:

" (INJUSTICE85 - "lol you know you can look at judici.com anytime bluedog lol,")

One step ahead of you junior....as always.

You see junior, I ask very few questions I don't already know the answer to.

("I have no idea where you get arts or theatre lol")

I recalled that from my college days. Communication Majors were a joke. They were either Failed Musician or Failed Theater Art Majors.

So which one are you kid?

Judging by the clues you've left in here.....I'd say failed musician.

How am I doing so far, Burn-out?

("so we've got a supposed education, what school did you attend Bluedog?")

I'm not about to reveal that. But I can assure you it was considerably more accredited than the Crayola-Tech that you're boasting about.

("Employment is at school, I get paid to work through school doing work for my major, so tell me what did you do with your "major"?")

Paid to "work through school"?

Uh-huh. And how much dose THAT cost the taxpayer, junior?

And what did I do with my major?

I became very very comfortable. And I also tossed a few coins at all those homeless bums defecating in the parks.

Maybe one of my coins bounced off of your head, junior85?

("I must be getting to you to get that much out of you, now continue to be an adult and keep on going BBD, plagarism or no you still have one talent:posting news stories, sounds like you should have gotten into Communications lol,")

For a Communications Major, your communication skills s*ck, quite frankly, junior.

In a few years, life's going to beat you down kid, and you're going to realize just how ridiculous your braggadocios attitude towards your limited academic achievements really was.

You have no idea who I am, or what I've accomplished. And I'm going to keep it that way. But if you really want to dazzle everyone with your brilliance, then you can start by NOT attempting to be the Moral-Police around here.

You exposed your hypocritical sanctimonious letter about "gray areas" when you quickly labeled me as a Nazi.

And then you repeated that black and white knee-jerk reaction after you were humiliated when I pointed out that you had gone on a religious rant against a Mein Kampf quote. You actually called me a Nazi for recognizing that quote, when it was actually a Liberal who posted it. Another ridiculous and moronic blunder on your part. lol

It a shame your confidence can't be supplemented by actual performance, junior.

LOL

Oh and, after you receive your "Masters in Communications" let us know how your new career at the Wal Mart electronics dept works out.

Maybe you could get me a good deal on a new Plasma TV? lol "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 16, 2009 8:57 PM:

" (Rohn - "BDD I was not trying to make you look wrong.")

There was no offense taken Rohn.

Although I really don't blame anybody for protecting their anonymity in here including Harry and anyone else, regardless of their political views.

Some of us simply can't take that risk.

And I still don't think it's wise to reveal your phone number and address in here.

But do as you wish Rohn.

It's all good my friend. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 16, 2009 9:04 PM:

" Oh, and Rohn,

Didn't you say on another thread that you just had another stint installed?

I hope everything is going okay for you. "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 16, 2009 10:34 PM:

" Wow, I'm impressed, nj. I don't think anyone has ever got Miss Piggy squealing like you have tonight. Good job! lol! "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 16, 2009 10:43 PM:

" (Harry Potter wrote on Mar 16, 2009 10:34 PM:
" Wow, I'm impressed, nj. I don't think anyone has ever got Miss Piggy squealing like you have tonight. Good job! lol! ")

I didn't know junior got fatherbobby to squeal?

huh.

Oh and Harry, when will you be revealing your academic and career achievements?

And uhm.....when will you answer Ed Millers beatdown of you and post your address and phone number?

lol "

injustice85 wrote on Mar 17, 2009 9:15 AM:

" BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 16, 2009 8:57 PM:

" (Rohn - "BDD I was not trying to make you look wrong.")

There was no offense taken Rohn.

Although I really don't blame anybody for protecting their anonymity in here including Harry and anyone else, regardless of their political views.

Some of us simply can't take that risk.

...pfff risk? risk of being revealed as a lying old fogey perhaps, describe this risk BBD, thats a pretty sad dance your doing right baround the truth, the truth means more than your "risk" "

father bob wrote on Mar 17, 2009 9:47 AM:

" yep....Dorothy's in a snit.

keep up the good work IJ85. she'll be locking the doors to her trailer and hiding under the bed before long. "

injustice85 wrote on Mar 17, 2009 2:34 PM:

" father bob wrote on Mar 17, 2009 9:47 AM:

" yep....Dorothy's in a snit.

keep up the good work IJ85. she'll be locking the doors to her trailer and hiding under the bed before long. "

She disses on my life so much yet feels the need to go 'round with me, now does that say something about her or me lol, she must be threatened by my communications degree lol, she disses on me for getting financial aide for school, I guess mommy and daddy can't put us all through school, you know what I've learned about communications...good communication usually begins face to face with Hi my name is...I work at...I went to school at...none of which BLUEDOG has the heart to answer "

father bob wrote on Mar 17, 2009 4:54 PM:

" when she gets angry, her posts get longer and more twisted...

i'd say you've got her on the ropes. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 18, 2009 12:45 AM:

" (INJUSTICE85 - "good communication usually begins face to face with Hi my name is...I work at...I went to school at...")

Really kid?

And what did fatherbobby and Harry Potter tell you when you asked them those questions?

I didn't catch that one. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 18, 2009 12:53 AM:

" (INJUSTICE85 - "I guess mommy and daddy can't put us all through school")

You're still living at home with mommy and daddy, aren't you kid.

Who's paying your tuition again, junior? "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 18, 2009 6:25 AM:

" ...pfff risk? risk of being revealed as a lying old fogey perhaps, describe this risk BBD, thats a pretty sad dance your doing right baround the truth, the truth means more than your "risk

Absolutely hilarious, nj.... "

injustice85 wrote on Mar 18, 2009 9:29 AM:

" BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 18, 2009 12:53 AM:

" (INJUSTICE85 - "I guess mommy and daddy can't put us all through school")

You're still living at home with mommy and daddy, aren't you kid.

Who's paying your tuition again, junior? "

...well that would be John Q. taxpayer, all the more motivation to do something with myself, you know become a productive member of society...oh wait...you don't know "

injustice85 wrote on Mar 18, 2009 9:31 AM:

" father bob wrote on Mar 17, 2009 4:54 PM:

" when she gets angry, her posts get longer and more twisted...

i'd say you've got her on the ropes. "

...I love where I've got her FB, she can continue to alienate her clientele all she wants, in the end she's already said a lot about herself, it wasn't a name or anything just...her character, like good old McDonalds I'm Lovin' it "

open your eyes wrote on Mar 18, 2009 10:30 AM:

" Cognitus wrote on Mar 10, 2009 12:15 PM:

If I had a flat tire in front of your house after dark, I sure as H*** wouln't knock on your door and ask to use your phone to call AAA. You sound like a real neighborly type. I hope I don't live in the same block with you. "

Don't worry.I don't let strange looking people or sheep into my house no matter the reason.

"Can't change your own tire,huh?? "

jrussell wrote on Mar 18, 2009 11:46 AM:

" ya know what is funny about you BBD, (yes I changed my blog name just for you, remember to do the same lol) My friends and I have gone from watching tv to gathering around the computer for your lovely display of old timer logic, keep barking buddy, you know all about me and why? because I'm a real person, I love how you all blog without ever doing it from heart, if you had hear tyou'd be confident enough to use your REAL NAME, do I hear a bawk bawk or just more woof woof? "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 18, 2009 1:08 PM:

" (jrussell wrote on Mar 18, 2009 11:46 AM:

" ya know what is funny about you BBD, (yes I changed my blog name just for you, remember to do the same lol) My friends and I have gone from watching tv to gathering around the computer")

Wha?

How can that be junior?

But but but, I thought you were working around the clock at Crayola-Tech on that Cumoonicatin' Duh-gree and solving all the world's problems with your tireless charity "work"?

You mean you and your buds are actually getting baked at your mommy and daddy's trailer while sitting on your butts in front of the computer all day?

I'll bet you keep them in stitches with your heart-breaking tales of being "homeless" while living in a trailer eating pine-cones and grass, and dodging all forms of child molesters. (That still hurts my sides)

And all this, with that tremendous "academic load" of yours?

What was that line again from your "Recipe For Disaster" MySpace page?

Something about be a doobie? "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 18, 2009 2:19 PM:

" My friends and I have gone from watching tv to gathering around the computer for your lovely display of old timer logic, keep barking buddy, you know all about me and why?

It's good to see the young folks are enjoying watching old BBD make a total a$$ out of himself fighting with a college student, probably younger than his grand kids. He's quite the man, isn't he?

Yeah, go get 'em Blowdog your showing everyone how talented you are, aren't you LOL!

Here's an idea for you and your friends, nj. You need to take bets and make predictions on what Dorothy will say next. Throw your cash on the table and the closest guess wins the pot. "

jrussell wrote on Mar 18, 2009 4:46 PM:

" BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Mar 18, 2009 1:08 PM:

" (jrussell wrote on Mar 18, 2009 11:46 AM:

" ya know what is funny about you BBD, (yes I changed my blog name just for you, remember to do the same lol) My friends and I have gone from watching tv to gathering around the computer")

Wha?

How can that be junior?

But but but, I thought you were working around the clock at Crayola-Tech on that Cumoonicatin' Duh-gree and solving all the world's problems with your tireless charity "work"?

You mean you and your buds are actually getting baked at your mommy and daddy's trailer while sitting on your butts in front of the computer all day?

I'll bet you keep them in stitches with your heart-breaking tales of being "homeless" while living in a trailer eating pine-cones and grass, and dodging all forms of child molesters. (That still hurts my sides)

And all this, with that tremendous "academic load" of yours?

What was that line again from your "Recipe For Disaster" MySpace page?

Something about be a doobie? "

...you find me proof of "doobie" talk old yeller and we'll go from there because I don't recall such words on that page, it's completely humorous that your going to such great lengths to find something on me when I've already laid it all out, besides I don't live in a trailer anyway see because I move up in the world whereas I do believe it is you in fact that live sin a trailer, I suppose that's a crime to right, slap that on my long list of criminal masterminding lol, It is funny how I never once bragged about my education or life, you simply assume that, remember I wouldn't have mentioned ANY of it if you hadn't asked, CREEPY "

jrussell wrote on Mar 18, 2009 4:50 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Mar 18, 2009 2:19 PM:

" My friends and I have gone from watching tv to gathering around the computer for your lovely display of old timer logic, keep barking buddy, you know all about me and why?

It's good to see the young folks are enjoying watching old BBD make a total a$$ out of himself fighting with a college student, probably younger than his grand kids. He's quite the man, isn't he?

Yeah, go get 'em Blowdog your showing everyone how talented you are, aren't you LOL!

Here's an idea for you and your friends, nj. You need to take bets and make predictions on what Dorothy will say next. Throw your cash on the table and the closest guess wins the pot. "

...careful with your "pot" language lol, old timer yeller might sniff out something worthwhile to use against us lol, my prediction is she will do the tango right around changing her screen name since she did already cha cha around all the other questions that I presented in return to her original demands, I'm loving every minute of how old yeller portrays herself, real lady like toto, boy you would really be digging a grave to reveal your name now, I mean c'mon after poking fun of the homeless, the college community, and about every other form of the less fortunate possible, oh better let you get back to your sales, catch me inbetween donuts sales lady "

jrussell wrote on Mar 19, 2009 1:42 AM:

" Bluedog, dem dem der grte Feigling dem ich auf diesem Blog begegnet bin, ist ein kann nicht hacken es, Mann bis zu Ihren Lgen nicht nicht,

old yeller seems to be slowly running out of comebacks and reasons for dodging the truth...ARE YOU GEORGE BUSH BLUEDOG! lol "