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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Lee Enterprises

Monday, February 16, 2009 10:21 PM CST
LETTER: Pork projects plentiful in federal stimulus bill

DALE STEVENS, Charleston

Obama wishes it was a crisis so he could throw even more money down the drain and I’m also sick of liberals who keep blaming Bush for this.

It was Jimmy Carter who wrote “The Community Reinvestment Act” legislation and Bill “I’m busy with Monica” Clinton who forced banks under penalty from government to make home loans to people who couldn’t afford them.

Wasn’t it the housing market that started all this? Then oil prices skyrocketed due to the speculators (of which the Democratic Congress was going to write a bill to stop them, but since oil went down, that bill did too.

Bush tried to warn Congress in 2006 (the Dems were in power at the time), but they blocked him from regulating it because all the Democrats could see was a chance to get a Democratic president elected instead of helping the millions of people losing their jobs and houses.

Well, you now have your Democratic president and he’s taking us in debt another trillion dollars, congrats.

The only thing that has more pork in this stimulus plan is Obama’s head.

Pork 1- $5 billion to ACORN — the group that paid homeless people with cigarettes to get other homeless people to vote Democrat.

Pork 2-$200 million to refurbish the National Mall. I can’t believe 2 million people did that much damage during the inauguration and if they did, why weren’t they arrested?

Pork 3-$276 million to the State Department and $400 million to the Social Security Administration for new computers. Dell computer is pumping out state of the art super Duo-core, 1 trilobyte units with 20-inch flat panel monitors at $695 a copy. That’s 972,666 computers. Oh wait, I didn’t think about the surround sound option, color photo printer and the option plasma wide screen. OK, $676 million is a good deal. They just better not buy Toshiba’s or Sony’s!

Pork 4-$650 million to repair Forest Service buildings, can’t they drag the dead trees from the forest and build their own buildings.

Pork 5-$600 million to replace vehicles at the General Services Administration. All I have to say on this is that they better be Fords, Chrysler and GM vehicles and they better all be hybrids or electric cars.

Pork 6-$150 million for Planned Parenthood activities in Africa. How about using that here in the U.S.A. first, starting with the lady in California that had 8 kids and no job.

The list goes on, but I’m limited to 400 words.

DALE STEVENS

Charleston

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The Question wrote on Feb 17, 2009 6:32 AM:

" Yes, what we really need is advice from the political party whose frenzied, greed-maddened lust for "deregulation" unleashed the financial derivatives, credit default swaps and other instruments of fraud that wrecked the world economy.
"Pork" does have one advantage, you know. Unlike self-serving Republican lies, it actually feeds people. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Feb 17, 2009 7:51 AM:

" I do not agree with # 4 LOL. But would be funny watching them try that.
Damn sure agree with # 6 totally. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 17, 2009 9:21 AM:

" The only thing that has more pork in this stimulus plan is Obamas head.

Now that was a brilliant observation, and adds a lot to the discussion.

Hey Dale, your side lost, the other team has the ball now. So go sit on the sidelines and watch for the next four years with the other losers like Cybil and his "multi-named crew". lol... "

even steven wrote on Feb 17, 2009 9:44 AM:

" The Question wrote on Feb 17, 2009 6:32 AM:

" Yes, what we really need is advice from the political party whose frenzied, greed-maddened lust for "deregulation" unleashed the financial derivatives, credit default swaps and other instruments of fraud that wrecked the world economy.
"Pork" does have one advantage, you know. Unlike self-serving Republican lies, it actually feeds people. "

Your partisan idiocy is showing again. "

AllYouNeedIsLove wrote on Feb 17, 2009 12:30 PM:

" What you are not admitting, Mr. Stevens, is that Barack Obama is YOUR President, too. Even when I didn't like Bush, I still called him OUR President, because that is fact. So you really need to get your facts straight. It is hard to take your letter seriously, because you are obviously in denial. You don't have to like President Obama, but the truth is that he is every bit your President as much as he is mine. I have to admit, I do love President Obama. I personally think he is the best thing that has happened to this nation in the last 8 years. But I also think that you are jumping the gun a lot about the stimulus plan. The only thing that will tell if it is a success is time, and that hasn't happened yet. So why don't you give Obama a chance, just the way you would any new President of OURS, and give things some time before judging? "

father bob wrote on Feb 17, 2009 1:00 PM:

" In what could turn out to be the greatest fraud in US history, American authorities have started to investigate the alleged role of senior military officers in the misuse of $125bn (88bn) in a US -directed effort to reconstruct Iraq after the fall of Saddam Hussein. The exact sum missing may never be clear, but a report by the US Special Inspector General for Iraq Reconstruction (SIGIR) suggests it may exceed $50bn, making it an even bigger theft than Bernard Madoffs notorious Ponzi scheme. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 17, 2009 2:58 PM:

" I that some of the money on pallets that disappeared, fb? I still say most of it went to numbered Swiss accounts.

It would be a shame if it were our own military leaders who stole it.

I thought that Paul Bremer was a sleazy looking character from day one. I've always suspected he got his share of that money that mysteriously disappeared.

He turned out to be about as competent as "heck of a job" Brownie at FEMA.

And the Republicans on here want to talk about "good old boys". lol... "

Dally wrote on Feb 17, 2009 6:23 PM:

" Porker #7- Chapin Rose,375 lbs pork

Porker #8- Steve Ferguson,362 lbs pork

LOL
just another pair of good ole boys, eh harry palmer? think i might have a blt tonite "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Feb 17, 2009 8:06 PM:

" February 17, 2009 - First Day of the United Socialist States of America, February 17, 2009 - First Day of the United Socialist States of America, February 17, 2009 - First Day of the United Socialist States of America, February 17, 2009 - First Day of the United Socialist States of America, February 17, 2009 - First Day of the United Socialist States of America, February 17, 2009 - First Day of the United Socialist States of America "

ed miller wrote on Feb 17, 2009 10:28 PM:

" On Nov. 4, after Barack Obama clinched the White House, the market closed at 9,625.28.

In mid-morning trading today, the day President Obama signs his massive Generational Theft Act into law and a day before he unveils a massive new mortgage entitlement, the Dow dropped to to 7,606.53. Apparently investors aren't buying the rhetoric.

Now, imagine if President Bush had presided over a 2,000-point stock market tumble in the same time period during the first few months of his presidency.

Great start, Mr President. There's not a lot of slots below George Bush in the Presidential rankings, but I'm sure you can squeeze in there.

Just saying "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 18, 2009 7:39 AM:

" Come on Dally, don't you think that might be a bit of an exaggerating on Rose? I doubt that he goes a pound over 350. "

Locke wrote on Feb 18, 2009 7:44 AM:

" Come back to reality any time Mr. Stevens... "

Cognitus wrote on Feb 18, 2009 9:54 AM:

" "Pork" is not the important thing; the important thing is to get money into the system to "prime the pump".
Remember Keynes claimed that FDR was too timid in his program of public works. And indeed the Depression had not quite ended by 1940. BUT it had ended by 1946.
It ended because WW II convinced people to spend "whatever was necessary" to end WW II. So we spent billions of dollars putting people to work building materials for war that were trashed -- sunk, left behind, discarded -- and did little or no good for our infrastructure, but it did end the Depression.
So this proved Keynes was right; we should spend and spend to put people at work to get money moving again. If the work serves a useful purpose, so much the better, but if not, remember WW II and stop political quibbling.
And the increase in the deficit -- just remember the soothing words of VP Cheney, "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter". "

Cognitus wrote on Feb 18, 2009 9:59 AM:

" ed miller:"Now, imagine if President Bush had presided over a 2,000-point stock market tumble in the same time period during the first few months of his presidency."

Ed, what would you say if 8 years from now Obama has DOUBLED the national debt?? Oh how you would fuss and fume,
but you din't complain when Messiah Bush doubled the national debt, NOT ONE WORD.

And if you saw Frontline last night which told the whole story of the market collapse, you saw EVERYTHING was done by Paulson and Bernanke; Bush was hiding out in the corner, taking no leadership, assuming no responsibility,trying to pretend he didn't have anything to do with it -- one thumb in his mounth and the other in his ***** trying to decide when to change thumbs.
He was in shock, should have been
hospitalized, attended by men in white coats. "

Cognitus wrote on Feb 18, 2009 10:06 AM:

" Ed Miller:" On Nov. 4, after Barack Obama clinched the White House, the market closed at 9,625.28. The day before Obama unveils a massive new mortgage entitlement, the Dow dropped to to 7,606.53.

So the market dropped $2,000. Your memory is failing. It wasn't many months ago the DOW was in the $14,000 range; you've forgotten in recent months while Bush was telling stories about what a great president he had been the Down went down $5,000. "

father bob wrote on Feb 18, 2009 11:46 AM:

" Cognitus wrote on Feb 18, 2009 10:06 AM:
" So the market dropped $2,000. Your memory is failing. It wasn't many months ago the DOW was in the $14,000 range; you've forgotten in recent months while Bush was telling stories about what a great president he had been the Down went down $5,000. """"

Cognitus, you need to remember "ed the talking head" is designed to regurgitate talking points. he has no actual ability to rationalize data independently.....let alone respond to questions or counterpoints. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 18, 2009 12:50 PM:

" Cognitus, you need to remember "ed the talking head" is designed to regurgitate talking points. he has no actual ability to rationalize data independently.....let alone respond to questions or counterpoints. "

Ouch! now that had to hurt. lol... "

cedric66 wrote on Feb 18, 2009 3:28 PM:

" Cognitus wrote on Feb 18, 2009 10:06 AM:

" Ed Miller:" On Nov. 4, after Barack Obama clinched the White House, the market closed at 9,625.28. The day before Obama unveils a massive new mortgage entitlement, the Dow dropped to to 7,606.53.

So the market dropped $2,000. Your memory is failing. It wasn't many months ago the DOW was in the $14,000 range;

Thanks to Barney Frank ,Cris Dodd and the rest of the crooked Democrats on Wall Street for the plunge!! "

sapient wrote on Feb 18, 2009 4:09 PM:

" The truth certainly hurts. Listen to the left squeal and continue with their irrelevant claptrap about Bush or Cheney. Diversionary tactics all. "

ed miller wrote on Feb 18, 2009 7:21 PM:

" The Dow was around 12000 in 2006 before the Dems took over. Congress controls the purse strings, remember? The Dow is measure of investor's confidence in the FUTURE not the past Bush administration.

Before anyone accuses me of not responding, I have been on here for days, begging someone to defend the stimulus bill with not one taker.

The ABC Consumer Comfort Index hit its lowest level in over 20 years this month and the Rasmussen Consumer Index also hit rock bottom. Coupled with the DOW tanking, means NO ONE in the financial sector had any confidence that this trillion dollar fiasco that Pelosi and her lapdog railroaded through.

Even Vladimir Putin warned America to preserve what's left of its economic liberty at the recent World Economic Forum.

"Excessive intervention in economic activity and blind faith in the state's omnipotence is another possible mistake.

True, the state's increased role in times of crisis is a natural reaction to market setbacks. Instead of streamlining market mechanisms, some are tempted to expand state economic intervention to the greatest possible extent.

The concentration of surplus assets in the hands of the state is a negative aspect of anti-crisis measures in virtually every nation.

In the 20th century, the Soviet Union made the state's role absolute. In the long run, this made the Soviet economy totally uncompetitive. This lesson cost us dearly. I am sure nobody wants to see it repeated." "

Cognitus wrote on Feb 18, 2009 9:26 PM:

" Dally:"might have a blt tonite "

A BIT of what?? If I were his wife I'd
be ....... "

Cognitus wrote on Feb 18, 2009 9:32 PM:

" ed miller:"Before anyone accuses me of not responding, I have been on here for days, begging someone to defend the stimulus bill with not one taker."

I guess you never heard of Keynes so you
didn't understand my dissertation on his
economic theory in such situations.
So EDDIE there WAS a taker; you just weren't up to understanding...... "

ed miller wrote on Feb 18, 2009 10:03 PM:

" Cognitus wrote on Feb 18, 2009 9:54 AM:
" "Pork" is not the important thing; the important thing is to get money into the system"

So building dog parks, Frisbee golf courses, convention centers and combating STD's and prostitution are great public works projects that create long term jobs and will spark the economy?

There are just as many economists that say Keynes was wrong and FDR's policies actually would have prolonged the depression if not for WWII. "

ed miller wrote on Feb 18, 2009 10:31 PM:

" So, I'm too stupid to understand Keynesian economics? Just like a lot of other people here, you have to stoop to personal attacks hiding behind your little screen name like the big man you are.

Keynes had some good ideas, especially about real vs. nominal wages, but I seriously doubt he would agree that dog parks and combating prostitution will stimulate anything.

This bill does contain some good projects, many of which belong in a normal appropriations bill. The fact is Obama lied and let Reid and Pelosi control this whole thing without any bi-partisan input. They also used scare tactics to push this through. Ironically, it was the same things they criticized the GOP for. Anyway, this thing was finished at the last minute and rushed to a vote before ANYONE could review it, including the President. It is my belief that when congress spends a trillion dollars of our money, they should do it carefully, and with debate. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 18, 2009 11:04 PM:

" Great theory Cognitus- now then, let's just ramp up the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and our economy will be peachy!

In 1940, Keynes concluded that war might be the ONLY WAY that politicians in democratic nations could rationalize spending enough to bring about full employment.

Keynes wrote in 'The New Republic' - "It is, it seems, politically impossible for a capitalistic democracy to organize expenditure on the scale necessary to make the grand experiments which would prove my case except in war conditions,"

In several academic papers, economic historian Robert Higgs has argued that the "prosperity" of World War II was something of an illusion. The official statistics on private consumption during World War II suggest that real consumption expenditures rose, but they use official-controlled prices that misrepresent the true price of consumer goods in the period. After relatively minor adjustments to reflect the real prices, real consumption in the middle of the war was lower than it was in 1941. Not to mention that 15 percent of the working-age population was in the military risking life and limb in foreign lands, while most consumers back home were actually worse off. People could not buy new autos, tires, and many appliances at any price. Rationing programs sharply limited access to meat, sugar, gasoline, and a wide array of other products.

As diplomat Chester Bowles put it:

"One of the first things we must realize is that in the 1930s we never really did find the answer to full employment. Only the defense program in 1940 put our people to work and only the war and the cold war that followed have kept them at work."

Life during World War II was largely a continuation of the deprivation of the Great Depression, with two exceptions: Fighting the war put many in the frame of mind that they were sacrificing for a much larger goal of winning the war, and people accumulated savings because there was not much they could buy at the time.

Keynesian economics didn't work then, it has never worked in any country that has tried it since, and it won't work now.

But of course, Cognitus, your answer to this is the same answer that all Liberals always use when all of their ridiculous ideals fail: "It didn't work because we didn't spend enough! We need to spend more! More!"

Bad theory's lead to bad policies Cognitus. And thanks to Porkulus, we are all about to experience this tragic folly for the rest of our lives. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Feb 19, 2009 8:56 AM:

" Reading these are better than watching soaps. "

even steven wrote on Feb 19, 2009 10:08 AM:

" All the pork in this bill has motivated me to brush up on my grant writing skills. Pork tastes pretty good sometimes. "

The Question wrote on Feb 19, 2009 10:36 AM:

" You Republicans are opposed to the stimulus "on principle," aren't you? We certainly wouldn't want to stain your pretty little principles with any of that filthy old federal money. You might shriek in horror.
So naturally you will all want to oppose that awful FutureGen "porkulus" project. Write to your congressional representatives and tell them to say "THEE-inks but NO THEE-inks" to that FutureGen pork. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Feb 19, 2009 12:11 PM:

" And indeed the Depression had not quite ended by 1940. BUT it had ended by 1946.
It ended because WW II .... but it did end the Depression.
So this proved Keynes was right.... remember the soothing words of VP Cheney, "Reagan proved that deficits don't matter". "
--------------

Ed Miller.... Cognitus doesn't understand Keynesian economics either...he just proved it again...

I guess he forgot....more like didn't know... about lend-lease and the other financial arrangements with England and France before 1941 that pumped cash into our coiffures prior to our entry into the war....

And the end of World War II did not "convince American's to spend".

At the end of WW 2 there was only one economy left standing....the USA's....

As American industry had already tooled up to out mass-produce it's enemies....

(especially under Charles Kettering from GM - who mastered tooling up for war and then the subsequent change over at the end of the war so that by 1950 GM dominated manufacturing of just about everything...building 80% of all the cars produced worldwide that year) ....and with the Marshall Plan....the USA easily meet world wide demand to rebuild the world....and that's what pulled us out of FDR's socialist he*l...not BS Keynesian economics.... like the socialists are trying to sell the IGNORANT American public.

But I guess we should now use those MANY, MANY examples of financial success from socialist countries like Cuba, the USSR, the former eastern European block countries, the EU, and pre-market reform China.....to guide our economic policies here, eh Cognitus?

Ah but this is what I love about liberals...they know everything about everything but know nothing of substance about anything....

Um...Reagan signed the legislation, proposed by the democrats, that lead to big deficits because he had to play ball with you socialists to rebuild our economy and our military. And if it wasn't for Reagan you old hippies would still be peace protesting for nuclear disarmament against the USSR.... "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Feb 19, 2009 12:59 PM:

" EVEN EX-KGB COMMUNIST PUTIN SAY SOCIALISM DOES NOT WORK....

Russian Prime Minister Vladamir PUTIN has said the US should take a lesson from the pages of Russian history and not exercise excessive intervention in economic activity and blind faith in the states omnipotence.

In the 20th century, the Soviet Union made the states role absolute, Putin said during a speech at the opening ceremony of the World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland. In the long run, this made the Soviet economy totally uncompetitive. This lesson cost us dearly. I am sure nobody wants to see it repeated.

http://tinyurl.com/c6uflx "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 19, 2009 3:05 PM:

" Holy cow, when he posts as the BBD he quotes Hitler and when he posts as NeoCon he quotes Putin. I can't wait to see who he quotes the next time he posts as Stanley Stetson. Perhaps the Grand Wizard of the KKK.... hee hee "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Feb 19, 2009 4:07 PM:

" " Holy cow, when he posts as the BBD he quotes Hitler and when he posts as NeoCon he quotes Putin. I can't wait to see who he quotes the next time he posts as Stanley Stetson. Perhaps the Grand Wizard of the KKK.... hee hee "
------------------------------------

" Holy cow, when he posts as Harry Potter he sounds absolutely moronic. I can't wait to see his next quote as Father Bob, then he'll sound absolutely childish. Perhaps the Susan Humphreys... hee hee " "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 19, 2009 8:13 PM:

" Anyone else notice that the right wingers must have run out of things to say and can only "borrow" from the smarter side.

I see CybilCon and ed miller have resorted to this practice a lot lately. lol... "

ed miller wrote on Feb 19, 2009 8:33 PM:

" TQ,

No one is against putting money into projects like power plants and roads and other infrastructure projects. The problem is all of the other social projects thrown in with them. Obama promised transparency, well go to recovery.gov and see where your money is going. RIGHT! What exactly is "protecting the vulnerable"? Do you also notice how "science" and infrastructure" are lumped together? How convenient, now we can hide some of the controversial environmental pork in the bill. The fact is that this is a much pork as stimulus and they crammed it down our throats. "

Mike P wrote on Feb 19, 2009 10:02 PM:

" Pelosi should have been limited to one term as speaker. Her actions in bank bailout one, should have sealed that fate. She is far from capable in bipartisan work, and the speaker from either party, should always be a leader in that first and foremost. More devisive leadership, is counter productive to the legislative process, at every level of government.

Pelosi is the flip side of Newt, just as polarizing, but to the opposite field. Its terrible to think of some of them as being second in line for the highest office. She needs to be allowed to solely focus on her state, and new more centered leaders sought in the future, no matter which party has the majority. Hopefully the next session of congress, sees the need for change, since this one failed to. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Feb 19, 2009 10:22 PM:

" Anyone else notice that the right wingers must have run out of things to say and can only "borrow" from the smarter side.

I see HarryBob and The Question have resorted to this practice a lot lately. lol... " "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 20, 2009 6:41 AM:

" "Well, according to a new post-election survey, people want Sarah Palin to run for president in 2012. It says she's been getting thousands of calls from people pleading with her to run, all Democrats." --Jay Leno

Dedicated to the head of my fan club, CybilCon... "

angi61 wrote on Feb 20, 2009 8:14 AM:

" yummy I love pork! Hog fries, roast pork, pork chops. Home grown pig.. Delicious. Never imitated. Guess what? The people have spoken in great numbers. We voted, yes we can and yes we did! "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Feb 20, 2009 8:47 AM:

" I think Angi61 has the wrong idea of what is being called pork in here. LMAO "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Feb 20, 2009 9:19 AM:

" Well, according to a new post-election survey, people want Barry Obama to run for president in 2012. It says he's been getting thousands of calls from people pleading with him to run, all Republicans." --Jay Leno

Dedicated to the head of my fan club, HarryBob... " "

Charlie Watts wrote on Feb 20, 2009 10:21 AM:

" Someone sent me the following link to each states wish list for their piece of the pie. It's probably just as acurate as anything elso on the WEB so take it as you will.

http://tinyurl.com/cyccla "

cedric66 wrote on Feb 20, 2009 11:53 AM:

" angi61 wrote on Feb 20, 2009 8:14 AM:

" yummy I love pork! Hog fries, roast pork, pork chops. Home grown pig.. Delicious. Never imitated. Guess what? The people have spoken in great numbers. We voted, yes we can and yes we did! "

Is that the only kind of fries you eat? Maybe you can give Harry Pooper some. He must be very hungry!!!! "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 20, 2009 12:50 PM:

" Hey fb, have you seen CybilCon's latest tactic. He's mimicking me when he posts as NeoCon now. I guess I should take it as a compliment that he sees my posts as being so great and all. Either that or the moron's running out of gas. I suspect the latter. lol... "

The Question wrote on Feb 20, 2009 12:56 PM:

" Either that or the moron's running out of gas. I suspect the latter. lol...
---
Pity the poor old chap, Harry. Must be hard to keep plugging away with your propaganda when your party and philosophy have already wrecked the country and the world economy, and been booted out of office by the American voters. "

Native American wrote on Feb 20, 2009 1:25 PM:

" I read with great interest all of this "mud slinging" going on between each of you on both sides. I get a real hoot out of it.

All we have to do is like I told a friend of mine when Blago was re-elected. Just wait, I said, when the truth comes out, and it will, George Ryan will look like a choir boy compared to all that Blago has done. And sure enough, the truth came out.

In time the truth about this new administration will somehow filter its way through all of the defenses of the so called main stream media and in time the truth will come out as to how much this new direction will either hurt or help our nation. I know it is tough, but we must be patient and give it a chance. And then, let each side have their say.

God Bless you all, and God Bless our nation. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Feb 20, 2009 1:28 PM:

" LMAO @ Harry and Neo "

even steven wrote on Feb 20, 2009 2:20 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Feb 19, 2009 8:13 PM:

" Anyone else notice that the right wingers must have run out of things to say and can only "borrow" from the smarter side.

Hahaha... keep telling yourself that. Most of the "right wingers" I know have you by about 25 IQ points. "

The Question wrote on Feb 20, 2009 3:33 PM:

" Just wait, I said, when the truth comes out, and it will, George Ryan will look like a choir boy compared to all that Blago has done.
---
You mean Blago has burned MORE than six children to death? Do tell. "

cedric66 wrote on Feb 20, 2009 3:42 PM:

" Drilling for oil should begin immediately and the permitting process waived so jobs will immediately be created...and these jobs would be funded by the oil companies; not the tax payer...this should of been a clause in the stimulus bill. I imagine that Obama will keep that on the back burner. Since we are still dependent on foreign oil, we will keep on fueling the terrorists by buying oil from the middle east. It's time for us to say "Enough is Enough". "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 20, 2009 4:38 PM:

" Most of the "right wingers" I know have you by about 25 IQ points. "

So you running some sort of IQ testing on all the posters, on this site, out there in the old double wide, even?

That observation alone tell me where you stand on the scale. lol... "

father bob wrote on Feb 20, 2009 5:17 PM:

" cedric66 wrote on Feb 20, 2009 3:42 PM:
" Drilling for oil should begin immediately and the permitting process waived so jobs will immediately be created...and these jobs would be funded by the oil companies; not the tax payer...this should of been a clause in the stimulus bill.""""

you are totally clueless.....how funny! "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 20, 2009 7:12 PM:

" Cedric66 the cornfield economist? Yes fb, truly funny! Perhaps after he finishes up his shift at Mickey D's he should fire off a message to the oil companies with his brilliant proposal. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 20, 2009 7:28 PM:

" If you really want to get an idea of the intelligence of the typical right wing Republican, check out todays Fox on line forum. Scroll down to the one line comments and you'll how the average right winger thinks. I warn you it's rather brutal and those right wingers love to throw out the "N" word No wonder most KKK members belong to the Republican party.

CybilConDog, with all his personalities, would be right at home on that forum.

Oh yeah, the right wingers sure should be talking about IQ's. lol! "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 20, 2009 7:40 PM:

" "As a former Republican official," writes Duke, "I can tell you that millions of rank-and-file Republicans are mad as hell and aren't going to take it anymore! We will either take the Republican Party back over the next four years or we will say, 'To Hell With the Republican Party!' And we will take 90 percent of Republicans with us into a New Party that will take its current place!"

The following comments were made by noted Klansman and active Republican David Duke in regards to the GOP naming a black man to head up the Republican Party.

Trouble in the Paradise?

Sounds like opposition is coming from the ranks of the Party, RWB.

The GOP leadership may have made an error with this appointment, considering the overt racism that is obviously alive and well within that party.

This is going to get very interesting. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 20, 2009 8:20 PM:

" AHEM!

OBAMA'S PENTAGON REVIEW: GITMO MEETS THE STANDARDS OF THE GENEVA CONVENTION

Washington Post (Feb 20 2009) A Pentagon review of conditions in the Guantanamo Bay military prison has concluded that the treatment of detainees meets the requirements of the Geneva Convention but that prisoners in the highest-security camps should be allowed more religious and social interaction with one another, according to a government official who has read the 85-page document.

The report, which was ordered by President Obama, was prepared by Adm. Patrick M. Walsh, the vice chief of naval operations, and has been delivered to the White House. Obama requested the review as part of an executive order on the planned closure of the prison at the Guantanamo Bay U.S. naval base on the southeastern tip of Cuba.

++++++++

But but but, Obama's still closing Gitmo right?

Right?

That is right, isn't it ObamaZombies? "

Brittanicus wrote on Feb 20, 2009 8:43 PM:

" what Sen.Harry Reid 'KILLED' in the Stimulus bill...?

Senator Harry Reid (Dem-NV) showed his true colors by killing the E-Verify system in the Stimulus bill. He must be receiving large Campaign contributions from the Un-American Chamber of Commerce, predatory businesses, the anti-American ACLU and Special Interest lobby. Nevada! Remember this Senator who has used his power in Congress to Tax you even more, vote him out, when he runs for office again--or even recall him--NOW!

Population stabilization (caps web.org ), a pro-sovereignty group in California has concluded their own investigation and determined that their is a least 40 million nationwide? So who is telling the truth and who is financially supporting all these foreign nationals thats paralyzed the state? YOU ARE! How much is the cost to support thousands in our prison system, for education and health care? California is just one state anchored down, because the elected officials ignored the overwhelming peril over three white house administrations of illegal immigration. Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, the state legislators, city Mayors have done absolutely nothing to stop the support of illegal immigration in California and this goes for elected officials around the country.

We have one last chance for all Americans and legal residents to fight back against unfair taxes. We still have time to back Senator Sessions and other honest lawmakers before the deadline this March 6? We need E-Verify with its mandated success rate of 99.6 percent in perpetuity, not just 5 years? It will stop the illegal Immigration invasion for good!

Jam the Washington Switchboard at (202) 224-3121 In addition you can call President Obama at 202-456-1111. Switchboard: 202-456-1414 ONLY YOU CAN STOP THIS TRAVESTY OF OUR IMMIGRATION LAWS. Remember! If Democrats manage to pass a AMNESTY, you the taxpayer will be paying even more of your hard-earned dollars for millions waiting across the border, not the pariah employers.

We don't need pro-illegal alien mayors like Galvin Newsom of San Francisco and his counterpart Mayor Antonio Villaraigosa in Los Angeles. They have both aided and abetted foreign nationals, with many terrorising the Americans and legal residents. "

warrior wrote on Feb 20, 2009 8:59 PM:

" Dead Horse plan,
Young Chuck in Montana bought a horse from a farmer for $100
*Farmer agreed to deliver horse next day.
*next day farmer drove up,"Sorry, but bad news. the horse died."
*Chuck, "Well, give the money back."
*Farmer, "Can't went spent it already."
*Chuck, "Ok, bring the dead horse." 
*Farmer, "What ya gonna do with him?"
 *Chuck, "going to raffle him."
 *Farmer, "can't raffle a dead horse!" 
*Chuck, "Sure can, won't say he's a dead horse." 
*month later, farmer sees Chuck'  "What happened to dead horse?"
 *Chuck, "raffled him off.'' sold 500 tickets, two bucks each, profit of $998." 
*farmer, "no one complained?" 
*Chuck, "Just the guy who won. gave his two bucks back.." 
Chuck grew up, he now works with the government as a Democrat.
He's the one who figured out how this "bail-out" is going to work. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 21, 2009 8:44 AM:

" Jam the Washington Switchboard at (202) 224-3121 In addition you can call President Obama at 202-456-1111.

And to think Cheney called those who spoke out against the policies of the Bush administration unAmerican. "

Native American wrote on Feb 21, 2009 9:11 AM:

" TQ, I was referring to his corruption. And where is there proof that George Ryan himself started any fires that killed any children? If you have proof, I would love to know. By the way, I never said I was a fan or Ryan's, just pointing out the hypocrisy of a friend of mine who happens to be a Democrat and will vote for one no matter what. I myself, vote for the person, NEVER A CERTAIN PARTY! God Bless. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Feb 21, 2009 9:14 AM:

" If you really want to get an idea of the intelligence of the typical left wing IDIOT Democrat, check out todays Fox on line forum.

Scroll down to the one line comments and you'll how the average right winger thinks. I warn you it's rather brutal and those leftt wingers like Jay-Z, Al Sharpton and the like love to throw out the "N" word. No wonder most KKK members like ROBERT BYRD belong to the DEMOCRAT party.

HarryBobDramaQueen, with all his personalities, would be right at home on that forum.

Oh yeah, the left wingers sure should be talking about IQ's. lol! " "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Feb 21, 2009 9:36 AM:

" Brittanicus wrote on Feb 20, 2009 8:43 PM:
Jam the Washington Switchboard at (202) 224-3121 In addition you can call President Obama at 202-456-1111. Switchboard: 202-456-1414 ONLY YOU CAN STOP THIS TRAVESTY OF OUR IMMIGRATION LAWS.
-------------------------

I dunno Brittanicus....I'm beginning to think the best thing to do is to let the socialists keep tearing down America....

It might just be a good idea to let them all in and give them citizenship.

Then employers WILL HAVE TO pay them minimum wage.

Once they have to pay the once illegals minimum wage, who's gonna work on the farms at under minimum wage, migrant wages?

Nobody....

Then when food prices hit the roof because they can't find anybody to do the work, guess who gets the blame for their stupidity?

Yeah....the socialists...that's who...

Along with this issue of stupidity by the socialists...

Republicans just need to let the socialists (democrats) do what they are going to do....as democrats in power are the best thing for Republicans.

Just look at the dire situations with California, Illinois, Michigan, Kansas, democrat Bernie Madoff (funny how you don't hear about how much he contributed to the democrat party isn't it?) and with the socialist porkulus bill... "

The Question wrote on Feb 21, 2009 9:43 AM:

" The Republican Party leader Alan Keyes, who has never been and will never be elected to run even a drainage district, opines that President Obama is A) a radical communist who intends to destroy the United States and B) not the president.
Lets hear you right-wing loons expand on Keyes' patriotic, godly themes. Go to it, GOP assorted nuts. "

jackson wrote on Feb 21, 2009 10:21 AM:

" If your information was even remotely accurate, I could respect this article a little bit. When you say 5 Billon is going to ACORN as your first point, I was done. That has proven incorrect by every reputable media outlet. This LIE came from the Drudge Report and Rush Limbaugh...maybe the only 2 people out there dumber than you Dale. STIMULUS IS SPENDING! "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 21, 2009 10:44 AM:

" Police have interviewed and are close to charging a California prison inmate in the eight-year-old case of Chandra Levy, the federal intern who vanished and was found murdered a year later, a law enforcement official told FOX News on Saturday.

The official said Washington, D.C., authorities submitted evidence to the U.S. Attorney's Office to obtain an arrest warrant for Ingmar Guandique, who will be served papers in California and likely will be flown to Washington to hear the charges against him.

This must be painful news for the propagandists at Fox news who spent literally weeks trying to convince the world that it was a California congressman who was responsible. A Democrat of course. Funny thing, Democrat scandals seems to get more air time at Fox than those of the GOP.

I wonder if the police find the real killer, will Fox news issue an apology to the man they did everything but put on trial? Nah, that ain't gonna happen... Only reputable news organizations apologise for their errors.

Did anyone hear if the Fox pundit ever apologised for saying someone should kill Obama? If she did, I must have missed it.

Oh yeah, thank God for Fox news. LOL! "

Native American wrote on Feb 21, 2009 10:54 AM:

" On one of my very rare occasions of listening to Rush Limbaugh, he was talking about how the Democratic Left calls his listeners "mind numb robots." Which I thought was funny at the time.

However, the more I read the comments submitted to this forum from those of you who associate yourselves with the Left leaning Democratic Party, I am not so sure it is Mr. Limbaugh's audience who can be considered as a "mind numb robots."

It is sad that there are people who seem to be so lazy that they are not willing to think for themselves. Instead they just faithfully drink the Kool-Aide and follow what their anti-American leaders ask them to do. Or are so absent from common sense that they will support a stupid idea just because it came from their political party.

By the way TQ, where is the proof that George Ryan intentionally set a fire that killed six children because he wanted to do so as you suggested in an earlier comment? And I do get a hoot out of your opinions even though most of the time I do not agree with you. God Bless and have a great day! "

ed miller wrote on Feb 21, 2009 12:23 PM:

" even MSNBC is starting to turn on this fiasco.

Rick Santelli: President Obama, Are You Listening?

Mr. Ross has nailed it. The government is promoting bad behavior. We certainly dont want to put stimulus pork and give people a whopping $8 or $10 in their check and think that they ought to save it.

And in terms of modifications, I tell you what. I have an idea. The new administration is big on computers and technology. How about this, Mr. President and new administration. Why dont you put up a website to have people vote on the internet as a referendum to see if we really want to subsidize the losers mortgages? Or would they like to at least buy buy cars, buy a house that is in foreclosure give it to people who might have a chance to actually prosper down the road and reward people that can carry the water instead of drink the water?

This is America!

How many people want to pay for your neighbors mortgages that has an extra bathroom and cant pay their bills?
Raise their hand!

President Obama, are you listening?

You know Cuba used to have mansions and a relatively decent economy. They moved from the individual to the collective. Now theyre driving 54 Chevys.

Its time for another tea party.

What we are doing in this country will make Thomas Jefferson and Benjamin Franklin roll over in their graves. "

AllYouNeedIsLove wrote on Feb 21, 2009 12:25 PM:

" The funny thing is, if anyone watched the news the other day, one of the so-called "pork" projects was US! Lol. It was Futuregen, coming to Mattoon. Numerous Repubs were out lobbying that we do not need Futuregen- you can tell some Texans are still sore they didn't get it. But the good news it, Obama hasn't forgotten about us, and Durbin and Johnson have reminded him that Futuregen would mean a lot to us. It would create hundreds of jobs, and help get the economy going around here- just what we need to stabilize the local economy. We all need to buy local, as well, to support ourselves. But this Futuregen would also be the first of its kind, and to take place in Mattoon, of all places, well, that's amazing! :) I hope Futuregen does come here, and I do not consider it pork in the least, because it is creating jobs, helping stabilize our local economy, and bringing about our environment. You have to invest in the people to help the people. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 21, 2009 12:41 PM:

" The Question wrote on Feb 21, 2009 9:43 AM:

" The Republican Party leader Alan Keyes, who has never been and will never be elected to run even a drainage district...

I thought that wacko had fallen off the radar screen, TQ. My favorite Keyes story is the one where he jumped up and down screaming carpetbagger when Hillary moved to New York and ran for the senate. Of course when the disgraced lowlife running against Obama for senate in Illinois had to drop out over another Republican sex scandal, old Keyes was Johnny on the spot with his carpetbag rairin' to go. LOL! "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 21, 2009 12:56 PM:

" John Lennon once claimed the Beatles were more popular than Jesus. Now President Obama has evidence that he's more popular than both.

Obama topped a new Harris interactive poll that asked 2,634 Americans who they admire enough to call a hero.

Jesus came in second on a list that includes God, Mahtma Gandhi and George Washington.

Fox news-

Fox news jumped all over this report. It should be red meat for their lemmings. This should get the Obama bashers on here all worked up too. LOL! "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 21, 2009 2:02 PM:

" (Neo - "I dunno Brittanicus....I'm beginning to think the best thing to do is to let the socialists keep tearing down America....")

That's been my theory all along Neo.

Ever since the 2006 elections (just five short years after 9/11) I've been convinced that the majority of Americans are far too uneducated and disinterested in politics to make an intelligent decision anymore. And the corrupt Machiavellian Democrats along with their accomplices in the media have played upon those pathetic weaknesses with their short, one-line, propaganda slogans.

Add to that the fact that the GOP is starved of any real Conservative leadership; and the only solution to this entire mess is simple:

The Democrats and the country deserve each other. Let the moronic masses have exactly what they deserve.

"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." - Benjamin Franklin "

cedric66 wrote on Feb 21, 2009 3:08 PM:

" General Motors plans to invest $1 billion in Brazil to avoid the kind of problems the U.S. automaker is facing in its home market.

According to the president of GM Brazil-Mercosur, Jaime Ardila, the funding will come from the package of financial aid that the manufacturer will receive from the U.S. government and will be used to complete the renovation of the line of products up to 2012.

YOUR tax dollars at workin Brazil. How again is this going to stimulate the American economy and save American jobs? "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 21, 2009 4:06 PM:

" even steven wrote on Feb 20, 2009 2:20 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Feb 19, 2009 8:13 PM:

" Anyone else notice that the right wingers must have run out of things to say and can only "borrow" from the smarter side.

Hahaha...I keep that myself the most of the "left wingers" have people like me and NeoCon beat you by about 25 IQ points. "

Why shucks even steven, you make me blush with your synchophatic glowing fawning over me. "

medic57 wrote on Feb 22, 2009 6:33 AM:

" I see the Govornator has the right idea. He said to all the Rep. Govoners who don't want their Stimulus money, California will take it. He is right, the money is there no matter what, to refuse is asinine.

Just the other day, The Governor of Arkansas said he doesn't want the Unenployment part of the package.

Well of course he doesn't want it, He HAS a job. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 22, 2009 7:22 AM:

" You know Cuba used to have mansions and a relatively decent economy. They moved from the individual to the collective. Now theyre driving 54 Chevys.

Well gee Einstein, why do you think the peasants revolted if everything was so rosy? Your hero Bush was doing his best to turn this country into a South American style economy too, wasn't he? "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 22, 2009 8:05 AM:

" YOUR tax dollars at workin Brazil. How again is this going to stimulate the American economy and save American jobs? "

For years now, those who complained about NAFTA were told, we're part of the world economy, get used to it. cedric's complaint seems to contradict the value of that idea. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 22, 2009 8:20 AM:

" I dunno Brittanicus....I'm beginning to think the best thing to do is to return to the Fascist's style of the Bush regime to keep tearing down America....Once we have the middle class destroyed, we can round up the peasants and put them in work camps, sort of like our great Fuhrer did.

Wow, that's a little strong, isn't it Neo? "

ed miller wrote on Feb 22, 2009 9:30 AM:

" " The Question wrote on Feb 16, 2009 6:32 AM:
" Now, I know most of the people who watch Fox News are just stupid."

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 21, 2009 12:56 PM:
" Fox news jumped all over this report..." "

The Question wrote on Feb 22, 2009 10:01 AM:

" The Republican governors are busy trying to find a way to grab the stimulus money with both hands on the sly while denouncing it and pretending they didn't. They figure their voters are just dumb enough to fall for that.
In the words of one of their brain trusts, "THEE-inks but NO THEE-inks!" "

The Question wrote on Feb 22, 2009 10:25 AM:

" The GOP governors say they "may" turn down "some" of the funding. Translation: "I'll grab any of the billions that can be used to grease my rich corporate masters, and reject any money that might help the desperately struggling working class or the middle class." "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 22, 2009 10:45 AM:

" Tell us Harry,

Is Obama more "popular" with you, than Jesus? "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 22, 2009 10:54 AM:

" Let's hear YOU expand on Obama's qualifications to be president, Question.

Oh wait! I know:

GRIM PROVING GROUND FOR OBAMA'S HOUSING POLICY

"The candidate endorsed subsidies for private entrepreneurs to build low-income units. But, while he garnered support from developers, many projects in his former district have fallen into disrepair."

++++++

Looks like Obama's qualifications as a "community organizer" are about to give the entire country the ole "South-Side Chicago Housing Project" treatment, huh Drama Queen? "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 22, 2009 11:17 AM:

" (Harry - "Hahaha...I keep that myself the most of the "left wingers" have people like me and NeoCon beat you by about 25 IQ points."

Why shucks even steven, you make me blush with your synchophatic glowing fawning over me.")

Uhm....Harry?

....your response makes no sense.

Thanks for proving even steven's point.

ROFLMAO "

The Question wrote on Feb 22, 2009 1:09 PM:

" As Jaime ONeill has observed, now that they no longer hold the purse strings, the Republican Party has decided that its only role is to obstruct all attempts to heal the illness they visited upon the nation, the huge financial mess that occurred due to their profligate spending, the lax oversight of the financial markets, and the deeply embedded corruption they nourished under the guise of deregulation. Having brought the nation (and the state) to the brink of ruin, having run up the national debt to astronomical levels, and having cut taxes on the wealthiest people in the country while running a couple of expensive wars, the Republicans have suddenly become fiscal conservatives again. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 22, 2009 2:51 PM:

" BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 22, 2009 10:45 AM:

" I agree Harry,

Obama is more "popular" than Jesus? "

Glad to see you finally admit it Cybil. lol!

And where's Neo and Stanley? Keeping them in reserve? "

The Question wrote on Feb 22, 2009 2:53 PM:

" California's governor says that if the other Republican governors have any of that awful federal stimulus money they want to turn down, his state will be glad to take it off their hands. LOL.
Nice to that rare Republican who isn't stupid. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 22, 2009 3:04 PM:

" ed miller wrote on Feb 22, 2009 9:30 AM:

Come back to reality any time Mr. Stevens... " "

The Question wrote on Feb 22, 2009 3:20 PM:

" Florida Gov. Charlie Crist said, "I think there is a national leader, his name is President Obama. The people elected him. And I'm willing to give him a good shot and try to help make this work."
What do you know? ANOTHER Republican who isn't stupid. That makes two in one day. Amazing. "

The Question wrote on Feb 22, 2009 3:26 PM:

" George Will said, "This week, a Democratic administration reproved Alan Greenspan for reckless talk on (bank) nationalization. That's how 'through the looking glass' we are."
Hey, who's the commie now, GOP? "

ed miller wrote on Feb 22, 2009 4:52 PM:

" Old article from the NY Times:

by STEVEN A. HOLMES
Published: September 30, 1999

In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.

The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets including the New York metropolitan region will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring.

Fannie Mae, the nations biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the CLINTON Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.

In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980s.

From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us, said Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry" "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 22, 2009 4:53 PM:

" Republicans can always smell money, especically if it's not theirs, TQ. Even that beady eyed little Muslim governor from Louisiana will eventually take all he can get his grubby little paws on. I see that old mouth full of mush guy from Mississippi, Haley Barbour, is taking about how he may turn it down, we all know it's just political posturing on his part too. I can't wait to see the moose babe from Alaska in there rooting for hers too. I heard she was going to use some of it for an abstinence only education curriculum for Alaskan schools. "

ed miller wrote on Feb 22, 2009 4:58 PM:

" Here's another article from the times about how Bush tried to regulate the mortgage giants.

http://tinyurl.com/6lp5qu

"Fannie and Freddie are fundamentally sound.

They are not in danger of going under.Were doing three separate things that make it much less likely very, very unlikely that well have this kind of a housing crisis six months or a year from now.

Looking at the financials, theyre solid.
Banking Committee Chairman Barney Frank, (D, Massachusetts) July 14, 2008

We do not have a crisis at Freddie Mac, and particularly at Fannie Mae, under the outstanding leadership of Franklin RainesWhat we need to do today is to focus on the regulator, and this must be done in a manner so as not to impede their affordable housing mission.
Maxine Waters, (D, California)

Questioned by former congressman Chris Shays, Republican of Connecticut, about Fannies teensy 3 percent capital cushion, Raines said of the multi- and single-family loans the company holds: These assets are so riskless that capital for holding them should be under 2 percent.

Now go on with your fairy tales about this mess being all Bush's fault. "

The Question wrote on Feb 22, 2009 6:21 PM:

" I can't wait to see the moose babe from Alaska in there rooting for hers too. I heard she was going to use some of it for an abstinence only education curriculum for Alaskan schools.
---
LOL, Harry. By the way, that high school dropout "family values" daughter of hers never did marry the other high school dropout who fathered her child, did she? "

The Question wrote on Feb 22, 2009 6:25 PM:

" If Republicans are talking about bank nationalization now, it can only mean they are hatching some new scheme to rob and savage the American working class and middle class. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 22, 2009 6:39 PM:

" LOL, Harry. By the way, that high school dropout "family values" daughter of hers never did marry the other high school dropout who fathered her child, did she? "

I think they're waiting for his mom to get out of jail. It appears that they frown on meth cooking and drug selling up there too. Do you think old Sarah tried to intervene on that case like it appears she tried to with the state trooper incident.

Yeah, it looks like old Sarah should have invested in less ammo and more Trojans for her kid. LOL! "

angi61 wrote on Feb 23, 2009 4:50 AM:

" nope, I actually understand the pork you are talking about in the stimulus bill but I am just making fun of the sore losers here "

medic57 wrote on Feb 23, 2009 6:33 AM:

" Shortly after class, an economics student approaches his economics professor and says, "I don't understand this stimulus bill. Can you explain it to me?"
The professor replied, "I don't have any time to explain it at my office, but if you come over to my house on Saturday and help me with my weekend project, I'll be glad to explain it to you." The student agreed. At the agreed-upon time, the student showed up at the professor's house. The professor stated that the weekend project involved his backyard pool.
They both went out back to the pool, and the professor handed the student a bucket. Demonstrating with his own bucket, the professor said, "First, go over to the deep end, and fill your bucket with as much water as you can." The student did as he was instructed.
The professor then continued, "Follow me over to the shallow end, and then dump all the water from your bucket into it." The student was naturally confused, but did as he was told.
The professor then explained they were going to do this many more times, and began walking back to the deep end of the pool. The confused student asked, "Excuse me, but why are we doing this?" The professor matter-of-factly stated that he was trying to make the shallow end much deeper.
The student didn't think the economics professor was serious, but figured that he would find out the real story soon enough. However, after the 6th trip between the shallow end and the deep end, the student began to become worried that his economics professor had gone mad. The student finally replied, "All we're doing is
wasting valuable time and effort on unproductive pursuits. Even worse, when this process is all over, everything will be at the same level it was before, so all you'll really have accomplished is the destruction of what could have been truly productive action!" The professor put down his bucket and replied with a smile, "Congratulations. You now understand the stimulus bill." "

angi61 wrote on Feb 23, 2009 8:19 AM:

" interesting analogy medic57, but, considering the same ole hog crap that we have had the last eight years, and filling the pork bellies of the swine such as Cheney's buddy contractors in Iraq, while my fellow soldiers go without, I find it so amusing that I make light and fun with my discussion of actual pork chops/dishes here. Anyway, if we were to have the drastic change that is required at once, you would call it socialism and some would be faint of heart up in here. "

The Question wrote on Feb 23, 2009 8:56 AM:

" As Pamela Troy observed, violent rhetoric is becoming normalized among the right. Combine that with a severe economic crisis, add the kind of irresponsible talk about "secession" and "revolution" that's being casually invoked on some cable shows, and we could end up very soon with what amounts to a ticking time bomb. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 23, 2009 10:11 AM:

" (The Question - "If Republicans are talking about bank nationalization now, it can only mean they are hatching some new scheme to rob and savage the American working class and middle class.")

Yes or course comrade.

Das vadanya, Drama Queen-insky. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 23, 2009 12:03 PM:

" I would think Cybil would be more comfortable speaking German, considering that his political hero is Adolph Hitler, TQ.

I seem to recall him even quoting ole Hitler a time or two on this site. Maybe Tommy Andres could check the files on that for me. "

Cognitus wrote on Feb 23, 2009 12:19 PM:

" Stevens:Im also sick of liberals who keep blaming Bush for this."

Stevens must have been sleeping. This
recession started over a year ago, and Bush did nothing about it. Did you notice the last month of his term Bush hid in the corner, catatonic, while Paulson and Bernanke ran the country.
I guess you think it' fine that GWB DOUBLED the national debt (don't you think maybe that was a bit excessive), and do you feel comfortable by the fact that China holds most of our "mortgage".
If China wanted to, they could bring out country to its knees by throwing our debt onto the world market. AND IT WAS ALL GEORGE BUSH'S DOING.
Don't you GET IT; he DOUBLED the NATIONAL DEBT. He took our country into DEBT as much as the accumulated debt since George Washington.
Go ahead Stevens, drink Dr. Bush's Kool Aid and see where you end up 5 years from now....... "

Cognitus wrote on Feb 23, 2009 12:26 PM:

" Stevens:"Pork 2-$200 million to refurbish the National Mall. I cant believe 2 million people did that much damage during the inauguration and if they did, why werent they arrested?"

I prefer to read comments made by people who know SOMETHING about what they are writing about.
My son is a partner in one of the prominent law firms on Pennsyvania Ave., overlooking the Mall from his window. I've WALKED the length of the MALL from time to time over the last 20 years.
This is NOT -- hear me NOT -- about damage done to the Mall by the INAUGURATION. The Mall, by many and various public events over the last 20 years has been trampled like a barnyard.
Let me SHOUT it in your ear: THE CONDITIONS OF THE MALL ARE NOT DUE TO THE INAUGURATION; THEY ARE DUE TO AN INCREASING NUMBER OF PUBLIC EVENTS OVER MANY YEARS.
Next time, write about something you know about. "

Cognitus wrote on Feb 23, 2009 12:37 PM:

" Stevens:"Pork 4-$650 million to repair Forest Service buildings, cant they drag the dead trees from the forest and build their own buildings."

I swore I would not write again.......but...
I am quite familiar with the work of the National Forest employees, from time to time work with them. They are highly educated people in forest management, climatologists, wildlife management, wildfire prescription burning,etc.: THEY ARE NOT CARPENTERS.

Let me pose a question to Stevens: Suppose you were in the middle of the wilderness, surrounded by dead trees with a crosscut saw, a handsaw, an axe, a hammer and lots of nails COULD YOU CONSTRUCT A BUILDING FROM "SCRATCH"?? "

Cognitus wrote on Feb 23, 2009 12:44 PM:

" Blue Dog:"Looks like Obama's qualifications as a "community organizer..."

Blue Dog, please don't make a fool of yourself again.
Sneer at "community organizer" if you like, but this man ORGANIZED THE NATION so well he won a NATIONAL election!!!!
Obviously he learned a great deal fron
"community organizing". "

Cognitus wrote on Feb 23, 2009 12:50 PM:

" Question:"" The Republican governors are busy trying to find a way to grab the stimulus money with both hands on the sly while denouncing it and pretending they didn't."

Indeed EXCEPT I heard a commentator say last night that Coburn (D) S Carolina, having heard that governors might indeed try to deal with this secretly, inserted a condition in the bill that ANY GOVERNOR WHO ACCEPTS STIMULUS MONEY HAS TO ***PUBLICLY*** ACKNOWLEDGE IT. I hope the commentator was correct. "

cedric66 wrote on Feb 23, 2009 1:15 PM:

" I found this today and thought maybe you far left loonies would like to see it!!!

The race card is always going to be played by the liberals to get what they want. I am sick of it and the hypocrisy, because when liberals play the race card, they themselves are the racists...not the people they are speaking about! Keep up the good work and getting the message out. People ARE listening! "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 23, 2009 1:30 PM:

" Blue Dog, please don't make a fool of yourself again.
Sneer at "community organizer" if you like, but this man ORGANIZED THE NATION so well he won a NATIONAL election!!!!

Ouch, the "smackdowns" continue....LOL! "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 23, 2009 1:34 PM:

" Oh yes indeed Cognitus, Obama did learn a great deal from "Community Organizing"; for instance-

he learned how to score huge sums of money and advance his political career while selling poor people a failed "South-Side Chicago Housing Project"

Yep. Obama learned the age-old art of Bovine Shenanigans.

More commonly known as B.S. "

oldschool wrote on Feb 23, 2009 2:06 PM:

" "Cognitus" You are very clever...NOT However, the end result for the nation will be very much like the end result for the communities "Obama" helped. Broken, and continuously looking for tax payer bailouts in an effort to keep scsm....oops, I mean operation running. Wo....wait a minute Cognitus, You are more right then you know.....Obama will do to the nation exactly what he did for the communities he organized....no jobs...no food....no purpose....no hope. He fooled these communities just like he fooled the "center" during the election. "Change" for the worse is indeed on the way. Suddenly I have an urge to play basketball and eat at a soup kitchen, and play bingo and...and .......what is it you do all day Potter? Count me in !! "

father bob wrote on Feb 23, 2009 2:16 PM:

" cedric66 wrote on Feb 23, 2009 1:15 PM:
" I found this today and thought maybe you far left loonies would like to see it!!!

The race card is always going to be played by the liberals to get what they want. I am sick of it and the hypocrisy, because when liberals play the race card, they themselves are the racists...not the people they are speaking about! Keep up the good work and getting the message out. People ARE listening! """"

can anyone call the home?.......he's loose again. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 23, 2009 2:16 PM:

" cedric66 wrote on Feb 23, 2009 1:15 PM:

" I found this today and thought maybe you far right loonies would like to see it!!!

The race card is always going to be played by the right wing wackos to get what they want. I am sick of it and the hypocrisy, because when conservatives play the race card, they themselves are the racists...not the people they are speaking about! Keep up the good work and getting the message out. People ARE listening!

Thank you seedy we're trying our best. LOL! "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Feb 23, 2009 3:34 PM:

" WOW did someone pee in Cog's Cheerios this morning?? He sure is wound up. LOL "

The Question wrote on Feb 23, 2009 3:47 PM:

" I note that the president just met with Congress and others on TV to discuss the nation's problems openly, whereas his predecessor, the ape, went on vacation and/or hid out for his last two or three months rather than face the horrendous problems he caused. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 23, 2009 3:52 PM:

" (Rohn - "WOW did someone pee in Cog's Cheerios this morning?? He sure is wound up. LOL")

The entire Left is wound up around here today. It's really not surprising; Obama's lies and backtracks are coming out on a daily basis, and that's given his empty-headed lemmings a serious case of The Knicker-Twists.

It's just not pretty.......... "

angi61 wrote on Feb 23, 2009 7:49 PM:

" Hey, got an idea; how bout' we all go take a time out and Pray to the Great Spirit for our Nation?! Oh, but how great that could be, to humble ourselves to something bigger than our small minds, small vision. "

ed miller wrote on Feb 23, 2009 9:33 PM:

" The Question wrote on Feb 23, 2009 3:47 PM:
" I note that the president just met with Congress and others on TV to discuss the nation's problems openly..."

OPENLY, that's a good one. Not the President, the American public, or even the congress got to fully review the largest spending pork project in American history before it was signed into law. "

what wrote on Feb 23, 2009 9:38 PM:

" If you butcher a fat hog you're going to get lard. Good pie crust. It's all consumed. The only thing left is the squeal. Don't matter who cut the throat then. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 24, 2009 7:29 AM:

" (CNN) President Obama said Monday hes pretty happy with helicopter he has though the new commander-in-chief joked he's never had one to compare it to.

During a fiscal summit at the White House Monday, Arizona Sen. John McCain Obama's former rival for the White House pressed the new president on the Defense Department's plan to overhaul the fleet of 28 Marine One helicopters, a process that began early in the Bush administration.

The price tag for the new helicopters has been estimated at over $11 billion, more than the cost of Air Force One a cost that Obama said appeared unnecessary.

"The helicopter I have now seems perfectly adequate to me," Obama responded to laughter. "Of course, I've never had a helicopter before.

"You know? Maybe maybe I've been deprived and i didn't know it. But I think it is a an example of the procurement process gone amok and we're going to have to fix it."

Once again, Obama bests McCain.... "

warrior wrote on Feb 24, 2009 8:04 AM:

" The Question wrote on Feb 23, 2009 3:47 PM:

" I note that the president just met with Congress and others on TV to discuss the nation's problems openly, whereas his predecessor, the ape, went on vacation and/or hid out for his last two or three months rather than face the horrendous problems he caused. "

Nobama's Speech Tuesday;

Umm we can't confront ahhh the crisis without ahhh really confronting the ahhh crisis ummm or we will ahhhh slip into ahhhhh another crisis.
However, us politicians and ahhh every Government employee ahhhh will continue getting raises ummmm and perks no matter how ahhhh critical this crisis gets.
Thank you for ahhhhhh tuning in tonight and listening to me repeat ahhhhh and ummm over and over.

This is the language that the japanese want to learn from. Surely they know how to say ahhhhh and ummmmm already.

I always that an ape was bigger than a monkey, so is Obama riding on Bush's back?? "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 24, 2009 9:16 AM:

" FINANCIAL TIMES.COM: OBAMA'S HEAD OF ECON COUNCIL FALLS ASLEEP AT SUMMIT...

(Feb 24 2009) "Although Lawrence Summers, head of the National Economic Council, fell asleep on the podium, most attendees, including Republicans, appear to have appreciated the exercise. There was even some light-heartedness."

+++++++

Why am I not surprised.

ROFLMAO "

cedric66 wrote on Feb 24, 2009 12:01 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Feb 24, 2009 7:29 AM:

" Kenya President Obama said Monday hes pretty happy with toy helicopter he has though the chump-in-chief joked he's never had one to compare it to since he was a kid.

During a fiscal summit at the White House Monday, Arizona Sen. John McCain Obama's former rival for the White House pressed the new president on the Defense Department's plan to overhaul the fleet of 28 Marine One toy helicopters, a process that began early in the Obama administration.

The price tag for the new helicopters has been estimated at over $11.00 apiece, more than the cost of Air Force One a cost that Obama said appeared necessary.

"The helicopter I have now seems perfectly adequate to me," Obama responded to laughter. "Of course, I've never had a helicopter before.

"You know? Maybe maybe I've been deprived and i didn't know it. But I think it is a an example of the procurement process gone amok and we're going to have to fix it." I'm sure that the taxpayers wouldn't mind picking up the tab. I also need one for Michelle also and my kids can share one together "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 24, 2009 12:37 PM:

" Even the Republican Partys new young spokesman, Governor Jindal is taking 3.7 billion of the 3.8 billion hes been offered from the stimulus.

I believe the part he turned down was money for unemployment benefits. This, I predict, will come back to haunt him in future elections. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 24, 2009 1:54 PM:

" Vice President Dick Cheney was caught dozing off on live television during an emergency cabinet meeting called on Wednesday to discuss the devastating California wildfires. Cheney was previously spotted napping in April 2006, during a press briefing by President Bush and Chinese President Hu Jintao, and again during a meeting on Iraq in May 2006.

Digg-

+++++++

Why am I not surprised.

ROFLMAO " "

The Question wrote on Feb 24, 2009 2:08 PM:

" The Republican governor of Utah, Jon Huntsman Jr., said his party's leaders in Congress' lack of new ideas renders them so "inconsequential" that he doesn't even bother to talk to them.
"I don't listen or read whatever it is they say because it is inconsequential -- completely," Huntsman said.
Wow. ANOTHER Republican who isn't completely brain dead! Amazing. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 24, 2009 3:09 PM:

" Yet the man who presided over such dramatic changes was frequently out to lunch. He was never exactly a Stakhanovite: he started his day with the comics and took frequent time for naps, sometimes in cabinet meetings.

Richard Reeves/ The Great Delegator

Ah, but he brought down the Soviet Union with his bare hands....LOL! "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 24, 2009 3:12 PM:

" Holy cow, cedric66 is trying to blame Obama for Bush's helicopter plans now. Nice try seedy. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 24, 2009 3:21 PM:

" OBAMA'S TRILLIONS DWARF BUSH'S "DANGEROUS" SPENDING

Byron York notes:

The numbers are so dizzying that McConnell and his fellow Republicans are trying to "connect the dots" that is, to explain to the public how all of those discrete spending initiatives add up to a previously unthinkable total. Obama's current spending proposals, Republicans point out, will cost more than the United States spent on the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the general war on terror and Hurricane Katrina in the last seven years. And that's before you throw in the $2 trillion fiscal stabilization plan.

"This is big government, man," McConnell exclaimed, his matter-of-fact manner giving way to sheer amazement. "It makes previous attempts at big government pale in comparison they're going to go beyond the New Deal and the Great Society by far."

+++++++

And the Scumbag hypocritcal DemoCorrupts aren't finish spending either.

Hey kids, who's up for Prokulus II..? "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 24, 2009 3:40 PM:

" Great video on YouTube. Cheney caught napping at emergency cabinet meeting. Check it out! "

Becky wrote on Feb 24, 2009 3:46 PM:

" http://crooksandliars.com/jon-perr/obamas-summit-and-myth-republican-fiscal

The national debt under president Reagan, Bush 41 and Bush 43 exploded as a percentage of GDP, interrupted only by the all-too-brief fiscal sanity of the Clinton years. And to be sure, the budget surpluses of the late 1990's seem like a distant memory.

The numbers tell the story. As predicted, Reagan's massive $749 billion supply-side tax cuts in 1981 quickly produced even more massive annual budget deficits. Combined with his rapid increase in defense spending, Reagan delivered not the balanced budgets he promised, but record-settings deficits. Even his OMB alchemist David Stockman could not obscure the disaster with his famous "rosy scenarios.

Nuff said. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 24, 2009 4:09 PM:

" Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) twice declined to call for all earmarks to be stripped from the omnibus spending bill now before Congress.

That can drive the GOP base nuts. Erick Erickson, editor of the conservative blog RedState, told the Huffington Post that he was "not surprised Senator McConnell would not call for earmarks to come out. He just ran a re-election campaign themed on bringing home the bacon. There has not been a real commitment on either side of the aisle to clean up the culture of corruption in Washington -- just words."

And I thought everything was Obama's fault! "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 24, 2009 4:29 PM:

" And the Scumbag hypocritcal DemoCorrupts aren't finish spending either.

Sort of sounds like aunt Dorothy is getting her nickers in a bunch again. LOL! "

father bob wrote on Feb 24, 2009 5:05 PM:

" GOP on Obamas speech: Stimulus will saddle future generations with debt""

woooohooooooo!!...ROFLMAO!!!....hehehehehe
hahahahahahahaha....woooohooooooo!!

now that there's funny!!!

their blaming the "stimulus"....ROFLMAO!!
their hero's 11 trillion dollar war had no bearing???...hahahahahahaha...

could the GOP do any more to get their a55es thrown out in 1020??? woooohoooo!!!! "

The Question wrote on Feb 24, 2009 5:22 PM:

" President Barack Obama plans to remove all U.S. combat troops from Iraq by August 2010, administration officials said Tuesday.
Oh, how the right-wing war worshippers will weep. Sad, really. However will they slake their thirst for the invasion, the subjugation and the blood of people who never posed any threat to the U.S.? "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 24, 2009 5:54 PM:

" During an appearance on Your World with Neil Cavuto yesterday, Michael Steele told the host that he was "open to" punishing Senators Susan Collins, Olympia Snowe, and Arlen Specter for their votes on the stimulus package, by withholding RNC monies for their re-election bids. He then said he was "open to everything, baby,"

Is Michael going to punish all those Republican governors too? Seriously, is the Republican party imploding?

Don't look now, Michael, keep making threats and your tenure might be a short one.... "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 24, 2009 6:27 PM:

" A thought on Mitt Romney, former liberal governor turned standard bearer for the radical right wing of the Republican party. Known by some as the man of a thousand flip flops.

The Republican Party will almost certainly not succeed in stopping this stimulus bill, but they have already succeeded in weakening it. While that is unfortunate, it is also part of the democratic process, and perhaps somewhat unavoidable. Fortunately, the American people, the same ones who weren't taken in by Mitt Romney in 2008, aren't buying it now either. Support for the Republican position is weak as most Americans are anxious to get a stimulus bill and turn our economy around. Moreover, continuing to oppose government support for a faltering economy and to support obscene salaries for executives of government supported businesses is an unlikely recipe for rebuilding the party of Lincoln.

Lincoln Mitchell
Columbia University "

cedric66 wrote on Feb 24, 2009 6:29 PM:

" father bob wrote on Feb 24, 2009 5:05 PM:

" GOP on Obamas speech: Stimulus will saddle future generations with debt""

woooohooooooo!!...ROFLMAO!!!....hehehehehe
hahahahahahahaha....woooohooooooo!!

now that there's funny!!!

their blaming the "stimulus"....ROFLMAO!!
their hero's 11 trillion dollar war had no bearing???...hahahahahahaha...

could the GOP do any more to get their a55es thrown out in 1020??? woooohoooo!!!! "

What in the world have you been smoking Father Bob. "1020"!! You must be living in a different world than me!!!
ROLMAO "

cedric66 wrote on Feb 24, 2009 6:33 PM:

Rohn Gordon wrote on Feb 24, 2009 6:59 PM:

" The Question wrote on Feb 24, 2009 5:22 PM:

" President Barack Obama plans to remove all U.S. combat troops from Iraq by August 2010, administration officials said Tuesday.
Oh, how the right-wing war worshippers will weep. Sad, really. However will they slake their thirst for the invasion, the subjugation and the blood of people who never posed any threat to the U.S.? "

Now surely TQ you are smarter than that??
Saddam was a threat to everyone in the free world. Now could he have carried out the threats?? Maybe not then but yes he would have. He had chemicals and had used them before on his own people. There is NO doubt in my mind he was and would have connected his self with BinLaden's terror network. I am sure he would have supplied all the WMD they wanted. We are just lucky that Saddam had already had the world mad at him. If he had not attacked Kuwait, and gotten the wrath of the world on his back He would have been the biggest supplier of things to kill Americans with ever seen.
There is no doubt he had WMD. But he was allowed to remove them before the invasion. Just like everything we do we TALK before doing it.
Just like if we would have just SHUT UP about coming to get BinLaden and ran him underground we could have just sent Special Ops in and took him out. He was running around everywhere shooting off his big mouth and guns everywhere. But oh no we warn him we are coming for him.
Another thing I find outrageous is when Libby ratted out Plume of the CIA, that the reporters reported it. Yes Libby should get burnt, But in my opinion when a news group releases info they KNOW will damage or threaten a undercover operation, that they should also be burnt. Just like when the Blago crap came down. Who in here honestly believe people close to Obama was NOT going to be involved????????????????????????? I bet thats why it WAS leaked and released. Can you imagine the mess if it had went all the way to Obama?? NOW I AM NOT SAYING I THINK IT DID> I am just asking "can you imagine what if". I am sure the FBI also didn't want it to get that high. We are already sure it got to his Chief of Staff and or aids.
Ok all sorry if I ranted. The press telling things they KNOW should NOT be told had always infuriated me. "

The Question wrote on Feb 24, 2009 8:38 PM:

" We now know, of course, that Saddam Hussein had no WMD. That was simply a tricked-up Bush and Cheney excuse for invasion, not a reason.
Even if Saddam HAD possessed WMD, they would have posed no danger to the U.S. because the secular Saddam had no relationship with Osama bin Laden. But Iraq had no WMD.
So the U.S. invaded a country that never attacked or threatened us, completely without justification, "shock and awed" thousands of the citizens to death, conquered it, subjugated it and wrecked it.
The invasion of Iraq is a war crime that will live in international infamy.
Prior to 9-11, which the Bush administration saw as an OPPORTUNITY to deceive the nation into an invasion of Iraq, the administration ACTUALLY ADMITTED Saddam posed no threat to the U.S.
--
Colin Powell in Cairo, Feb. 24, 2001:
"He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors."
--
Condoleeza Rice, July 2001:
"We are able to keep his arms from him. His military
forces have not been rebuilt. "

The Question wrote on Feb 24, 2009 9:36 PM:

" The three major broadcast networks favored Republicans in elections from 1992 to 2004, according to a study that analyzed presidential campaign coverage.
That effect was largely due to journalists censoring their own reporting out of frustration at being accused of a liberal bias, according to Maria Elizabath Grabe, associate professor in the Department of Telecommunications at Indiana University College Of Arts and Sciences, who co-authored "Image Bite Politics: News And The Visual Framing Of Elections" (Oxford University Press) with fellow academic Erik Bucy.
Grabe and Bucy examined 62 hours of network news coverage - 178 newscasts - between Labor Day and Election Day over four elections and examined the visual coverage, including such package techniques as the "lip-flap shot - when a reporter's voice is heard over video of the candidate, which tends to be unflattering for that candidate.
They also examined the "Goldilocks effect" - which party gets the last say in a piece and is better remembered by viewers.
According to their research, Democrats were more likely to be the subject of the unflattering "lip-flap" effect while GOP candidates had the last say in every election but 2004. In 1996, Republicans got the final say eight times as many times as Democrats.
Merely confirming what we already knew -- that the corporate media is in the tank for the Republicans, and the "liberal media" myth is just a lying distraction that permits them to cover their tracks, and permits the Republicans to "work the refs." "

oldschool wrote on Feb 24, 2009 10:21 PM:

" Hey "TQuestion" Evidently the "media" is no longer FRUSTRATED in censoring their liberal bias.....their out of the closet now...what a joke! Even your own material makes your argument look stupid...God I can't stop laughing......Next. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 24, 2009 11:19 PM:

" Bush

Approve-62
Disapprove-21
No Opinion-17

Gallup from Feb 19-21, 2001

=============================

Obama

Approve-59
Disapprove-25
No Opinion-16

Gallup from Feb 22, 2009

*yawn* "

XTownie wrote on Feb 25, 2009 2:24 AM:

" Oh, my. That Hulu brain gel project has nothing on the likes of Limbaugh and lesser hate radio broadcasters. It's so deliciously obvious that Mr. Stevens' brain has congealed into a mass of hate.

I'd feel sorry for him, but he probably has a gun. Take care my old friends in Charleston. "

bobmcarthur wrote on Feb 25, 2009 5:14 AM:

" Mr. Stevens has the right of it...Pelosi must be real proud of her democrats...and she doesn't care a bit about who's going to pay for it. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 25, 2009 7:20 AM:

" Perhaps the owner of the run down eyesore on Lincoln avenue (the old McArthur property) can get some stimulus money to clean up that piece of blight. I have to wonder how the owner of that mess keeps their own personal property up? "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 25, 2009 7:30 AM:

" If the nervous little guy the Republicans brought out to give a rebuttal to Obama's speech is the best they have, they are in more trouble than I thought. The RNC spends 150 thousand dollars on dressing up Palin and her brood of misfits, and they sent this guy out in a suit that was obviously two sizes too big. If this guy and Palin are the best they can come up with, the next go round will be an even bigger landslide.

We now learn that the rebuttal was written even before Obama's speech was read. Absolutely hilarious.

Watching the Republican party implode gets better by the day. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 25, 2009 7:39 AM:

" (Question - "President Barack Obama plans to remove all U.S. combat troops from Iraq by August 2010, administration officials said Tuesday.")

Uhm....not quite lemming.

You see, Obama is going to leave 30,000 to 50,000 troops in Iraq.

He just going isn't going to call them "combat" troops. LOL

Oh he's so tricky, isn't he.

Keep lapping up all of that moronic ObamaZombie propaganda, Question.
It's what you do best........ "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 25, 2009 7:41 AM:

" (Question - "We now know, of course, that Saddam Hussein had no WMD. That was simply a tricked-up Bush and Cheney excuse for invasion, not a reason.")

Evidence please.

("Even if Saddam HAD possessed WMD, they would have posed no danger to the U.S. because the secular Saddam had no relationship with Osama bin Laden. But Iraq had no WMD.")

Wrong. Saddam's own documents (The Pentagon's Harmony documents) captured during the 2003 invasion, clearly state that Saddam had a working relationship with Al Qaeda subsidiary groups.

Point of FACT: Back in the late '90s The Clinton Administration claimed that Iraq and Al Qaeda were working together to develop WMD.

In 2003, 26 Senate Democrats voted to invade Iraq, including Sen Hillary Clinton and Senate Intelligence Committee Senior Chairman, Sen Jay Rockefeller. Both of these Senators expressed even more dire warnings of Saddam Hussein based on the same Intel that originated with The Clinton Administration. And those warnings were even more dire than those made by President Bush.

("Colin Powell in Cairo, Feb. 24, 2001:
"He (Saddam Hussein) has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors.")

Powell was talking about "conventional" warfare. After 9/11 the fear was not conventional warfare, but WMD used through Saddam's terrorist connections.

(Condoleeza Rice, July 2001:
"We are able to keep his arms from him. His military
forces have not been rebuilt.")

Again, after 9/11, this thought process changed. It wasn't Saddam's military that was the main concern; it was his terrorist connections. And there was no way to be sure of the status of Saddam's weapons. After all, Saddam was still in direct violation of 17 U.N. resolutions that demanded he show PROOF of disarmament. Saddam responded with an on going game of cat and mouse with the inspectors. AND British Intel revealed that Saddam was trying to purchase uranium from Niger in an on going attempt to rebuild his nuclear program. A claim that the British still stand by to this day.

In July 2003 Bill Clinton clearly stated that there was "a substantial amount of biological and chemical material unaccounted for" in Iraq.

He further stated: "It is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks of biological and chemical weapons [in Iraq]."

Your "Bush Lied" fallacy is as baseless and phony as the Downing Street Memo that you always cite to bolster your ridiculous claims, Question. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 25, 2009 7:44 AM:

" It seems Sarah Palin used a state plane to fly her daughter to watch a dog race in 2008--a race in which her husband Todd was participating as a contestant.

Another example of Palin using the state treasury as her personal piggy bank? I seems like it.

Must be some of those values our friend from Arthur was admiring a while back. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 25, 2009 7:48 AM:

" Obama Says USA will rebuild and emerge stronger...

Obama vows to increase number of soldiers...

Obama vows to seek cure for cancer 'in our time'...

Obama says bank bailout may cost more than expected...

Obama promises universal EDUCATION THROUGH COLLEGE...

Obama promises universal health care...

Obama promises to turn water into wine...

Obama promises to raise the dead back to life.......

Obama promises to kill Satan.....

Obama promises to end all disease.....

Obama promises to vow to make grass greener......

Obama promises to make sunshine "sunnier"........

Obama promises as his first miracle, he will make Michell actually look "somewhat" like a female.......

Obama promises to vow to make Joe Biden "seem" somewhat intelligent.......

Obama promises to leave 50,000 troops in Iraq, but to rename them as "non-combat" to fool LeftTard lemmings......

Obama promises LeftTard lemmings are just that stupid........

Obama promises to give all promises expiration dates and clarifications.....

Obama promises to promise promises..........

Obama promises his Moonbat Minions will eat up all of his ridiculous promises.....

Obama promises (fill in the blank)......... "

The Question wrote on Feb 25, 2009 7:51 AM:

" Have you noticed how the Republican Party stooges are all suddenly, conspicuously non-white?
The GOP thinks Americans will put the rich, white greedheads who wrecked the country right back into power if they just put on a nice minstrel show. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 25, 2009 7:53 AM:

" The desperation of the crisis and Jindal's own political ambitions certainly put him between a rock and a hard place. A reasonable prediction is that he will continue to vociferously express his doubt and disgust for the stimulus, but ultimately will accept the funds. Anything less would be political suicide, and surely the GOP did not pick a total crackpot for their next poster boy.

Stuart Whatley-

Or did they? Remember this is the party that chose Sarah Palin over a lot of qualified candidates. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Feb 25, 2009 8:16 AM:

" The Question wrote on Feb 24, 2009 8:38 PM:

" We now know, of course, that Saddam Hussein had no WMD.
Tell that to the thousands he turned it loose on in his OWN country. WAKE UP.
Even if Saddam HAD possessed WMD, they would have posed no danger to the U.S. because the secular Saddam had no relationship with Osama bin Laden.
You are very gullible if you believe all of that. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 25, 2009 8:49 AM:

" If Hillary can't cut the mustard, I nominate Rohn G to be her replacement with Cybildog as her spokesperson. LOL! "

The Question wrote on Feb 25, 2009 8:52 AM:

" Actually, Rohn, it's the guy who still believes Bush and Cheney's warmongering lies who's gullible.
As Lily Tomlin said, no matter how cynical you get, it is impossible to keep up. "

father bob wrote on Feb 25, 2009 9:25 AM:

" Rohn Gordon wrote on Feb 25, 2009 8:16 AM:
"You are very gullible if you believe all of that. """""

i think you need to look in a mirror. "

father bob wrote on Feb 25, 2009 9:29 AM:

" The Question wrote on Feb 25, 2009 7:51 AM:
"The GOP thinks Americans will put the rich, white greedheads who wrecked the country right back into power if they just put on a nice minstrel show. """"

thanks Q, i didn't want to be the one to post the obvious.

kind of like the same token black guy at they kept showing at the convention. their way of pretending they're in touch with the american people. "

father bob wrote on Feb 25, 2009 9:38 AM:

" did you happen to catch Bobby Jingle's kudos to the bush administration's nola recovery efforts....how funny was that??!!!

he surely meant the american public's response, not brownie's "

father bob wrote on Feb 25, 2009 9:43 AM:

" interesting, BDDorothy has to resort to her lists again. she nothing to say at all, just flaming.

what a predicable little mouse she's become "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 25, 2009 9:56 AM:

" Harry cites Stuart Whatley, a Liberal hack who writes for the Huffington Post.

The Huffington Post is the main Moonbat Left-site for all of the Obama Lemmings in here.

I wonder when Harry's going to admit that HuffPo got nailed a few days ago when they passed off a phony "doctored" video, smearing John Gibson? "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 25, 2009 10:05 AM:

" Take note folks:

The Moonbat ObamaZombies HATE those pesky pesky list of FACTS I keep posting.

Gee, it's as it FACTS are Moonbat bane.

*tsk *tsk *tsk............ "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 25, 2009 11:21 AM:

" LONGEST SERVING DEMOCRAT SENATOR SLAMS PRESIDENT. BYRD WARNS: OBAMA IN POWER GRAB

Politico (Feb 25 2009) Sen. Robert Byrd (D-W.Va.), the longest serving Democratic senator, is criticizing President Obamas appointment of White House "czars" to oversee federal policy, saying these executive positions amount to a power grab by the executive branch.

In a letter to Obama on Wednesday, Byrd complained about Obama's decision to create White House offices on health reform, urban affairs policy, and energy and climate change. Byrd said such positions "can threaten the Constitutional system of checks and balances. At the worst, White House staff have taken direction and control of programmatic areas that are the statutory responsibility of Senate-confirmed officials."

While it's rare for Byrd to criticize a president in his own party, Byrd is a stern constitutional scholar who has always stood up for the legislative branch in its role in checking the power of the White House.

++++++++

A reminder to all ObamaZombies:

Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely. "

arrass wrote on Feb 25, 2009 11:52 AM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Feb 24, 2009 3:09 PM:
" Yet the man who presided over such dramatic changes was frequently out to lunch. He was never exactly a Stakhanovite: he started his day with the comics and took frequent time for naps, sometimes in cabinet meetings.

Richard Reeves/ The Great Delegator

Ah, but he brought down the Soviet Union with his bare hands....LOL! "

I did not think when I woke up this morning that I would see the word "Stakhanovite". When it comes to posting here BDD is the board Stakhanovite. "

The Question wrote on Feb 25, 2009 12:08 PM:

" Life in GOP La-La Land:
Bush is an excellent speaker.
Cheney is good shot.
Rove is great at math.
Libby is innocent.
Rice is a great diplomat.
DeLay is a paragon of virtue.
Gingrich is a great husband.
McCain is an ace pilot.
O'Reilly is such a tranquil tv host. (And factual too).
Hannity is meticulously accurate. (And very factual).
Fox News is fair and balanced.
Palin is smart and frugal. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 25, 2009 1:16 PM:

" By David Lightman | McClatchy Newspapers

WASHINGTON Republicans are expected to deliver a daylong rant Wednesday against Democratic spending legislation, yet the bill is loaded with thousands of pet projects that Republican lawmakers inserted.

Rep. Ralph Hall, R-Texas, included $142,500 for emergency repairs to the Sam Rayburn Library and Museum in Bonham, Texas. Sen. John Ensign, R-Nev., joined state colleagues to include $1.425 million for Nevada "statewide bus facilities." The top two Republicans on Congress' money committees also inserted local projects.

In all, an estimated $3.8 billion worth of specific projects, called "earmarks," are in the $410 billion spending bill that the House of Representatives is to vote on Wednesday. Easy passage is expected. The Senate is expected to act soon, too, since federal agencies will run out of money a week from Friday unless new funds are enacted.

House Democrats estimate that Republicans inserted 40 percent of the earmarks in the bill. An independent budget watchdog group, Taxpayers for Common Sense, said the 60-40 Democratic-Republican ratio followed historical patterns.

I sure hope ed miller doesn't hear about this. LOL! "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 25, 2009 1:23 PM:

" arrass is still dizzy after I exposed the fact that he really didn't understand what Extraordinary rendition was.

Go back to sleep, bumpkin.... "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Feb 25, 2009 1:26 PM:

" Oh no I NEVER said I believe all of their crap at all. I myself do NOT believe any politician.
And yes it has been proven many times that Saddam "DID" have chemical weapons. Now I am NOT saying they was still in Iraq when the war started. And if you or anyone else thinks that if he had the chance that he would not have supplied them to terror groups are just not all there.
No thanks Harry I KNOW i could not do it. Nor would I want to if I could.
You see like I have stated before I am NOT a Repub nor a Dem, I am ONLY an American. I believe BOTH sides can and have done good things.
But I also think Bush the Dad should have finished Saddam off the 1st time we was there. Lots of the problems we have today would not have happened. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 25, 2009 2:31 PM:

" And yes it has been proven many times that Saddam "DID" have chemical weapons.

About the only one who still believes that are Dick Cheney and Blowdoggy affectio;nalty know on here as the cackling old hen,Dorothy. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 25, 2009 2:34 PM:

" Dem Gov. may reject stimulus aid?

Tennessee may reject stimulus aid for jobless

Bredesen balks at conditions tied to federal package, long-term costs "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 25, 2009 2:38 PM:

" And yes it has been proven many times that Saddam "DID" have chemical weapons.

By whom?

Cheney and our local "expert" Blowdrawers don't count, neither one of them is know for their reliability.

Those two reprobates are about the only ones left pushing that one. Watch the cackling old hen, Dorothy, get her bloomers in a twist over this, Rohn. LOL! "

The Question wrote on Feb 25, 2009 2:40 PM:

" William K. Black, associate professor at the University of Missouri and senior regulator during S&L debacle, says that the FBI correctly identified the epidemic of mortgage control fraud at such an early point that the financial crisis could have been averted had the Bush administration acted with "even minimal competence."
So once again, it's the Bush Depression, gang. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 25, 2009 2:44 PM:

" Obama: "Nobody messes with Joe"

++++++

Biden Forgets Name of RECOVERY.GOV

Biden: "Do You Know The Website Number?"

(*rimshot!*)

You couldn't write better comedy than this, folks.

Joe (Gaff-O-Matic) Biden almost makes Harry seem somewhat in the area of 20 on the I.Q. scale.

Almost............ "

father bob wrote on Feb 25, 2009 3:09 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Feb 25, 2009 2:31 PM:
"About the only one who still believes that are Dick Cheney and Blowdoggy affectionately known on here as the cackling old hen,Dorothy. """""

oh brother HP....she'll get her panties in a bunch over that one. "

father bob wrote on Feb 25, 2009 3:26 PM:

" guess the pundits are yammering about how much sarah palin like bobby jingle's response last night.

she thought it narrowed down the 2012 presidential field....

how much better can this story get!!??? "

father bob wrote on Feb 25, 2009 3:32 PM:

" here's the kiss of death for bobby jingle:

The response across the political spectrum to Gov. Bobby Jindal's (R-LA) speech last night has been overwhelmingly negative. Even the most enthusiastic conservative talkers had harsh words for Jindal, calling it "cheesy," "insane," and "not his greatest oratorical moment."

But Jindal still maintains one key supporter -- Rush Limbaugh. On his radio show this afternoon, Limbaugh leaped to Jindal's defense. "I love Bobby Jindal, and that did not change after last night," he said. Limbaugh then directed this admonition at his fellow conservatives. "

father bob wrote on Feb 25, 2009 3:34 PM:

" Mr Bojingles.....Mr Bojingles....dance..

what a great old song! "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 25, 2009 3:51 PM:

" oh brother HP....she'll get her panties in a bunch over that one. "

Actually that seems to be a daily thing for her, fb. She's even got her drawers in a bunch with her other names too. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 25, 2009 4:06 PM:

" WASHINGTON (CNN) -- It was billed as a "coming out party" for one of the GOP's most promising young stars.

Gov. Bobby Jindal seemed "over-coached and over-rehearsed," CNN's Candy Crowley said.

But after nearly universal criticism was heaped on Gov. Bobby Jindal's high-profile response to President Obama's address to Congress Tuesday night, the Louisiana Republican may be wishing he had stayed home.

The criticisms came from all sides of the political spectrum, including from those in conservative circles who have promoted the 36-year-old governor as the GOP's most likely advocate to bring the party back from the brink of irrelevance.

I guess they're all saying little Bobby laid an egg. Even Fox news is being uncharacteristically quite about last nights fiasco.

I'll bet old Sarah was jumping up and down after it was over.

The implosion of the Republican is picking up steam. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 25, 2009 4:08 PM:

" For many years President Bush and his Administration have not only warned of the systemic consequences of financial turmoil at a housing government-sponsored enterprise (GSE) but also put forward thoughtful plans to reduce the risk that either Fannie Mae or Freddie Mac would encounter such difficulties. President Bush publicly called for GSE reform 17 times in 2008 alone before Congress acted. Unfortunately, these warnings went unheeded, as the President's repeated attempts to reform the supervision of these entities were thwarted by the legislative maneuvering of those who emphatically denied there were problems.

2001

April: The Administration's FY02 budget declares that the size of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac is "a potential problem," because "financial trouble of a large GSE could cause strong repercussions in financial markets, affecting Federally insured entities and economic activity."

2002

May: The President calls for the disclosure and corporate governance principles contained in his 10-point plan for corporate responsibility to apply to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. (OMB Prompt Letter to OFHEO, 5/29/02) "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 25, 2009 4:09 PM:

" 2003

January: Freddie Mac announces it has to restate financial results for the previous three years.

February: The Office of Federal Housing Enterprise Oversight (OFHEO) releases a report explaining that "although investors perceive an implicit Federal guarantee of [GSE] obligations," "the government has provided no explicit legal backing for them." As a consequence, unexpected problems at a GSE could immediately spread into financial sectors beyond the housing market. ("Systemic Risk: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac and the Role of OFHEO," OFHEO Report, 2/4/03)

September: Fannie Mae discloses SEC investigation and acknowledges OFHEO's review found earnings manipulations.

September: Treasury Secretary John Snow testifies before the House Financial Services Committee to recommend that Congress enact "legislation to create a new Federal agency to regulate and supervise the financial activities of our housing-related government sponsored enterprises" and set prudent and appropriate minimum capital adequacy requirements.

October: Fannie Mae discloses $1.2 billion accounting error.

November: Council of the Economic Advisers (CEA) Chairman Greg Mankiw explains that any "legislation to reform GSE regulation should empower the new regulator with sufficient strength and credibility to reduce systemic risk." To reduce the potential for systemic instability, the regulator would have "broad authority to set both risk-based and minimum capital standards" and "receivership powers necessary to wind down the affairs of a troubled GSE." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Remarks At The Conference Of State Bank Supervisors State Banking Summit And Leadership, 11/6/03) "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 25, 2009 4:10 PM:

" 2004

February: The President's FY05 Budget again highlights the risk posed by the explosive growth of the GSEs and their low levels of required capital, and called for creation of a new, world-class regulator: "The Administration has determined that the safety and soundness regulators of the housing GSEs lack sufficient power and stature to meet their responsibilities, and thereforeshould be replaced with a new strengthened regulator." (2005 Budget Analytic Perspectives, pg. 83)

February: CEA Chairman Mankiw cautions Congress to "not take [the financial market's] strength for granted." Again, the call from the Administration was to reduce this risk by "ensuring that the housing GSEs are overseen by an effective regulator." (N. Gregory Mankiw, Op-Ed, "Keeping Fannie And Freddie's House In Order," Financial Times, 2/24/04)

June: Deputy Secretary of Treasury Samuel Bodman spotlights the risk posed by the GSEs and called for reform, saying "We do not have a world-class system of supervision of the housing government sponsored enterprises (GSEs), even though the importance of the housing financial system that the GSEs serve demands the best in supervision to ensure the long-term vitality of that system. Therefore, the Administration has called for a new, first class, regulatory supervisor for the three housing GSEs: Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banking System." (Samuel Bodman, House Financial Services Subcommittee on Oversight and Investigations Testimony, 6/16/04)

2005

April: Treasury Secretary John Snow repeats his call for GSE reform, saying "Events that have transpired since I testified before this Committee in 2003 reinforce concerns over the systemic risks posed by the GSEs and further highlight the need for real GSE reform to ensure that our housing finance system remains a strong and vibrant source of funding for expanding homeownership opportunities in America Half-measures will only exacerbate the risks to our financial system." (Secretary John W. Snow, "Testimony Before The U.S. House Financial Services Committee," 4/13/05) "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 25, 2009 4:11 PM:

" 2007

July: Two Bear Stearns hedge funds invested in mortgage securities collapse.

August: President Bush emphatically calls on Congress to pass a reform package for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, saying "first things first when it comes to those two institutions. Congress needs to get them reformed, get them streamlined, get them focused, and then I will consider other options." (President George W. Bush, Press Conference, The White House, 8/9/07)

September: RealtyTrac announces foreclosure filings up 243,000 in August up 115 percent from the year before.

September: Single-family existing home sales decreases 7.5 percent from the previous month the lowest level in nine years. Median sale price of existing homes fell six percent from the year before.

December: President Bush again warns Congress of the need to pass legislation reforming GSEs, saying "These institutions provide liquidity in the mortgage market that benefits millions of homeowners, and it is vital they operate safely and operate soundly. So I've called on Congress to pass legislation that strengthens independent regulation of the GSEs and ensures they focus on their important housing mission. The GSE reform bill passed by the House earlier this year is a good start. But the Senate has not acted. And the United States Senate needs to pass this legislation soon." (President George W. Bush, Discusses Housing, The White House, 12/6/07) "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 25, 2009 4:12 PM:

" 2008

January: Bank of America announces it will buy Countrywide.

January: Citigroup announces mortgage portfolio lost $18.1 billion in value.

February: Assistant Secretary David Nason reiterates the urgency of reforms, says "A new regulatory structure for the housing GSEs is essential if these entities are to continue to perform their public mission successfully." (David Nason, Testimony On Reforming GSE Regulation, Senate Committee On Banking, Housing And Urban Affairs, 2/7/08)

March: Bear Stearns announces it will sell itself to JPMorgan Chase.

March: President Bush calls on Congress to take action and "move forward with reforms on Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. They need to continue to modernize the FHA, as well as allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to homeowners to refinance their mortgages." (President George W. Bush, Remarks To The Economic Club Of New York, New York, NY, 3/14/08)

April: President Bush urges Congress to pass the much needed legislation and "modernize Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. [There are] constructive things Congress can do that will encourage the housing market to correct quickly by helping people stay in their homes." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With Cabinet, the White House, 4/14/08)

May: President Bush issues several pleas to Congress to pass legislation reforming Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the situation deteriorates further.

"Americans are concerned about making their mortgage payments and keeping their homes. Yet Congress has failed to pass legislation I have repeatedly requested to modernize the Federal Housing Administration that will help more families stay in their homes, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance sub-prime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/3/08)
"[T]he government ought to be helping creditworthy people stay in their homes. And one way we can do that and Congress is making progress on this is the reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. That reform will come with a strong, independent regulator." (President George W. Bush, Meeting With The Secretary Of The Treasury, the White House, 5/19/08)
Congress needs to pass legislation to modernize the Federal Housing Administration, reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to ensure they focus on their housing mission, and allow State housing agencies to issue tax-free bonds to refinance subprime loans." (President George W. Bush, Radio Address, 5/31/08)
June: As foreclosure rates continued to rise in the first quarter, the President once again asks Congress to take the necessary measures to address this challenge, saying "we need to pass legislation to reform Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac." (President George W. Bush, Remarks At Swearing In Ceremony For Secretary Of Housing And Urban Development, Washington, D.C., 6/6/08)

July: Congress heeds the President's call for action and passes reform of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac as it becomes clear that the institutions are failing. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 25, 2009 4:21 PM:

" But Jindal still maintains one key supporter -- Rush Limbaugh. On his radio show this afternoon, Limbaugh leaped to Jindal's defense. "I love Bobby Jindal, and that did not change after last night," he said. Limbaugh then directed this admonition at his fellow conservatives. "

Let's see if they fall in line like they did the last time the old Drama Queen issued an edict, fb. As that party sinks lower and lower, how long will it be before some of them grow some ball$ and stand up to the unofficial head of the GOP, the drug addled Limbaugh? "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 25, 2009 4:45 PM:

" Even Fox news has dropped any mention of the disastrous speech given by the Louisiana governor last night. I thought that Dorothydog would be crowing about it on here today too. Guess even she saw that it was a bit of a joke too.

About the only one who seems to have liked it was Rush Limbaugh, and that doesn't mean much because he's wrong about 99 perccent of the time.

I remember Tommy Andres was on here singing Mr BoJingle's praises a while back. Perhaps he will chime in with his assessment. Nah, he's gonna wait this one out just like all the other gutless right wingers. "

father bob wrote on Feb 25, 2009 5:14 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Feb 25, 2009 4:45 PM:
"I remember Tommy Andres was on here singing Mr BoJingle's praises a while back. Perhaps he will chime in with his assessment. Nah, he's gonna wait this one out just like all the other gutless right wingers. """"

yeah.....probably right there HP. the only ones posting now are the blithering magpies. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 25, 2009 5:31 PM:

" The New York Times -

UBS was sued on Tuesday in a Swiss federal court by wealthy American clients seeking to prevent the disclosure of their identities as part of a tax-evasion investigation by the United States Justice Department.

The lawsuit accuses UBS and Switzerlands financial regulator, the Swiss Financial Market Supervisory Authority, or Finma, of violating Swiss bank secrecy laws and of conducting what Swiss law considers illegal activities with foreign authorities. It also named Peter Kurer, the chairman of UBS, and Eugen Haltiner, the chairman of Finma, as defendants.

The suit, filed by a lawyer in Zurich, Andreas Rued, on behalf of nearly a dozen American clients, underscores the growing clash between Swiss banking secrecy laws and those of the United States. Tax evasion is not considered a crime in Switzerland. Disclosing client names under Swiss law is a criminal offense and can expose bank executives and officers to fines, prison terms and other penalties.

Makes you sort of wonder if any of those dozen people were of the Bush inner circle. The name Cheney was no doubt at the top of the list. And after those billions is cash disappeared under Paul Bremer's watch, I suspect his name might be on there too. "

Rohn Gordon wrote on Feb 25, 2009 6:12 PM:

" LOL @ the Dorothy jokes.
But come on Harry the UN proved he used chemicals on his OWN people. So there is NO question at one time he DID posses WMD. Again I did NOT say he had them after we got there. And by the way they DID find some "old" chemical filled munitions. So yes with out any question about it Saddam at one time did posses WMD. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 25, 2009 6:45 PM:

" HOUSE PASSES $410 BILLION SPENDING BILL AS OBAMA PREPARES $634 BILLION HEALTH CARE FUND:

Obama would pay for the expansion by trimming tax breaks for the wealthy and tightening payments to insurers, hospitals and physicians, according to a senior administration official.

By first identifying a large pot of money to underwrite health care reform before laying out a proposal on who would be covered or how Obama hopes to signal his willingness to negotiate with Congress over the details of an eventual plan.

"We wanted to get this process going by putting some serious resources on the table," said the official, who was not permitted to speak on the record until formal release of the budget blueprint. "This is a reserve fund, instead of a 700-page plan. We learned the lessons of the past and want to work interactively with Congress. This is a first step."

++++++++++

This wont pay for the whole thing, in other words. Its a down payment, with the balance to be paid by the permanent tax increases on the middle class that are coming, as the NYT reminds us in a moment of amazing candor today. "

injustice85 wrote on Feb 25, 2009 7:05 PM:

" While your touching on approval ratings BLUEDOG you might mention Bush's all time low, Speaking of pork projects though I don't understand why we are fixing up all these schools that work fine, they are getting ready to fix my building at Lake Land, it's not broken... "

warrior wrote on Feb 25, 2009 7:14 PM:

" The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money."

-Margaret Thatcher "

warrior wrote on Feb 25, 2009 7:16 PM:

" A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up
until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship."

Alexander Tyler "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 25, 2009 7:22 PM:

" Rohn, just ask Harry to explain this:

BILL CLINTON (July 2003) "It is incontestable that on the day I left office, there were unaccounted for stocks of biological and chemical weapons [in Iraq]."

Clinton clearly stated that there was "a substantial amount of biological and chemical material unaccounted for" in Iraq.

So uhm.......where'd they go? "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 25, 2009 7:27 PM:

" nj85, Bush deserved his low approval numbers. And as the details of Porkulus slowly sink into the American psyche, Obama's going to seem less than Messianic.

Just a reminder folks: Obama has spent more money than any human being in history. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 25, 2009 7:30 PM:

" Don't forget this one warrior:

"When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic"
-Benjamin Franklin "

warrior wrote on Feb 25, 2009 8:14 PM:

" Lets get something straight;The only reason Obama's approval ratings are 67% (which I might add is already down from a month ago) is because those democratic socialism networks are working in the public housing areas where minorities live. You can't take 50 crackheads on the street and ask them if they approve of our president because they probably have no clue who are prez is. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 25, 2009 8:56 PM:

" GOOD LUCK ON DEFICIT

IBD (Feb 25 2009) .....Earlier this week, the Congressional Budget Office ran the numbers. It assumed all but the middle-class portions of the Bush tax cuts would expire in 2010. And it assumed a 115,000 cutback in the number of troops deployed in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere to support the war on terrorism.

The resulting deficit in 2013? $715 billion.

In other words, adopting the two main policy changes Obama has so far announced would leave him $182 billion short. But even that is wildly optimistic.

+++++++

In a few short years, even the collective brain-dead of this country will start to realize what a deceptive scumbag Obama has been. Along with his little troll lapdogs in Congress and the media.

There's going to be a whole lotta "I told you so" going on................ "

ed miller wrote on Feb 25, 2009 9:42 PM:

" Obama's Joe the Plumber:

Henrietta Hughes is the personification of Obamunism in more ways than one. Not only is she a parasite who expects the government to give her whatever she wants for free, she is also an utter fraud:

During Obama's campaign to promote his stimulus package, he staged an event with a woman, Henrietta Hughes, who, as it turns out, appears to be anything but truly needy. Henrietta was given an audience with Obama to beg for a home. When aid was provided via the offer of free rent by an opportunistic politician, the liberal press spouted that Henrietta was actually given a free home and implied it came from Obama. The lie has propagated through the liberal media and, quite honestly, it nauseated us because it was so obviously staged and such a distorted lie. Well, as it turns out, the lie didn't end there.

It appears that the desperate homeless woman owns real estate she shifted into the name of her son to avoid taxes and acquire government aid. Apparently, Henrietta is the teacher and Tom Daschle is just a student. Henrietta also apparently sold real estate at a significant profit in 2005. Henrietta has now become the poster child the Democrats wish to use to justify the massive expense of helping the chronically unemployed, not-so-needy and not-at-all-homeless. "

ed miller wrote on Feb 25, 2009 9:43 PM:

" From the web:

Using the power of Obamanomics, Chairman Zero could seize half of your property and redistribute it to Henrietta Hughes without taxing you a penny. Here's how it works:

Say Group A works hard and has created $1 trillion in wealth out of nothing. Group B smokes crack and watches Oprah, and doesn't create any wealth at all. It receives food stamps, welfare, subsidized housing, et cetera, ad nauseam, but say Group B has no more wealth than it creates. If Chairman Zero wants to spread the wealth around so that both groups have the same amount, he doesn't have to take half a $trillion from Group A. All he needs to do is give Group B $1 trillion dollars that doesn't exist in the form of mortgage bailouts and stimulus packages.

Since the money doesn't exist, the government will have to print it. Instead of $1 trillion dollars, there is now $2 trillion that represents $1 trillion of actual wealth. By making money worth half as much, Obama has effectively seized half of what Group A worked to create.

But there's no reason Group B should settle for only half of the wealth. After all, it suffers oppression. This is why Obama is passing out more money than exists in the entire economy.

Just because Obama doesn't need to tax us doesn't mean that he won't. Taxes will be going up, because higher taxes are a form of social justice. But there will be tax cuts for some namely, those who don't pay any taxes. Some of their welfare handouts will be renamed "tax rebates." "

ed miller wrote on Feb 25, 2009 10:21 PM:

" Besides his blatant slam on the Governor of Louisiana....

Chris Matthews in 2004 reacted to Obama's prime-time address by rhapsodizing, "I have to tell ya, a little chill in my, in my legs now."

On February 12, 2008, following primary results in Virginia and Maryland, the "Hardball" host again gushed over Obama, this time after a victory speech. Speaking of the Democratic candidate, he fawned, "I felt this thrill going up my leg. I mean, I don't have that too often."

Oh sure there's no media bias for Obama. "

Cognitus wrote on Feb 26, 2009 12:25 AM:

" "Pork projects plentiful"????????

One man's pork is another man's candy.

Future Gen is an example. If it were in the Stimulus package in Floria, it would be declared pork here, but if it were in the list located in Coles County everybody would be praising the Congress for having wisely passed the Stimulus. "

Cognitus wrote on Feb 26, 2009 12:31 AM:

" ed miller:"On Nov. 4, after Barack Obama clinched the White House, the market closed at 9,625.28.....and a day before he unveils a massive new mortgage entitlement, the Dow dropped to to 7,606.53. Apparently investors aren't buying the rhetoric.

Ed, do you remember what the Dow was at the top. Under WHICH recent president did the Dow drop about 5,000 points TO
9,625. Apparently the investors were REALLY holding their noses at the smell of his administration.
Republicans are hurting so bad their memories have just failed them........ "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 26, 2009 6:26 AM:

" Hey ed miller, did you know that over 40 percent of the earmarks in the package was submitted by Republicans? Do you think those all came from the few Republicans who voted for it? How about some whining from you that's directed toward the GOP. I guess it's only wasteful "pork" if it comes from the Democratic party huh? LOL! "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 26, 2009 7:39 AM:

" (Cognitus - "One man's pork is another man's candy.")

OR

One man's candy is another man's taxes. "

ed miller wrote on Feb 26, 2009 9:19 AM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Feb 26, 2009 6:26 AM:
" Hey ed miller, did you know that over 40 percent of the earmarks in the package was submitted by Republicans? Do you think those all came from the few Republicans who voted for it?"

Yes, I did. Vote them traitors out as well. Uh, Didn't Obama promise no more earmarks? Let's see if he signs this. "

father bob wrote on Feb 26, 2009 9:40 AM:

" ed miller wrote on Feb 25, 2009 10:21 PM:
"Oh sure there's no media bias for Obama. """"

he11 yes there's media bias for obama! why wouldn't there be??

we have a leader who can actually articulate an entire sentence. we have a leader who has at least some strategy in coping with our problems. we have a leader who has given us an new voice in the world. we have a leader we're not ashamed of as a nation.

i'd say that's a great start for the first 26 days in office.

but hey eddie, if you ignorant hicks want to run around screaming "the sky's falling"...be my guest. "

redwhiteblue wrote on Feb 26, 2009 9:52 AM:

" Wonder how many of those legislators who stood up and applauded the other night when Obama bashed CEOs (always good for an ovation, right?) and their private jets fly on private jets all the time themselves? Let me bet that jumpin'-jack Pelosi is one of them. "

red,white,blue wrote on Feb 26, 2009 9:54 AM:

" Let me see would that mean 60% came from Dems? "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 26, 2009 10:19 AM:

" Hey Harry, did you know:

President Obama, who took a no-earmark pledge on the campaign trail, is listed as one of dozens of cosponsors of a $7.7 million set-aside in the fiscal 2009 omnibus spending bill (HR 1105) passed by the House on Wednesday.....

Overall, the president, vice president, the White House chief of staff and the four Cabinet secretaries who were in Congress last year show up in the records of the House and Senate Appropriations committees as the sponsors or cosponsors of hundreds of millions of dollars in pet projects in the $410 billion spending bill.

Facts are fun, aren't they Harry........ "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 26, 2009 11:17 AM:

" The Republican Party has been using a grab-bag of strategies to counter Obama's policies over the past month. They rail against the stimulus package for its (supposed) pork. They hammer home their points with gimmicky videos and props. They speak in warrior rhetoric and revel in heroic, fighting-man stunts. But if there is one strand running through all these strategies, it is that they evoke a discomfiting feeling of deja vu. We've seen this stuff before: The GOP is currently reliving John McCain's presidential campaign. The return to the strategies of their fallen candidate may be the saddest illustration of the current state of the party.

The New Republic-

Let's just hope the keep pushing people like Jindal and Palin to the front as their new leaders. LOL! "

father bob wrote on Feb 26, 2009 3:51 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Feb 26, 2009 11:17 AM:
"The New Republic-

Let's just hope the keep pushing people like Jindal and Palin to the front as their new leaders. LOL! """"

isn't life great HP? just knowing how slowly these next 8 years will pass for the republicans just makes it all the better!! "

father bob wrote on Feb 26, 2009 3:54 PM:

" what am i saying HP....i can see generations passing before the GOP could possibly win another election. looking at history, our grandchildren will still be paying off bush's 11 trillion dollar fiasco.

fun watching the worms squirm... "

oldschool wrote on Feb 26, 2009 4:09 PM:

" You-who..."The Question" Are you out there?.....That nasty "BlueDog" is spouting off facts again,.. based on a tremendous knowledge of history..BAD BLUEDOG !! Ready...Set...GOOOOOO get him "Question...Teach him a lesson Mr. Answer guy....Mr. Smartie panties

Note to other posters:
The Question claimed folks from the right always debate with NO facts or knowledge to back up posts... Therefore he is on the clock...3...2...1 "

ed miller wrote on Feb 26, 2009 5:40 PM:

" father bob wrote on Feb 26, 2009 9:40 AM:
" we have a leader who can actually articulate an entire sentence."

Wow, he shore does have a purdy mouf.

"we have a leader who has at least some strategy in coping with our problems."

if you call throwing money at it a strategy. The Government is always good at that.

"we have a leader who has given us an new voice in the world. we have a leader we're not ashamed of as a nation."

Yes, now North Korea and Iran have someone to kick sand on again. They are celebrating and thanking Allah for the return of Jimmy Carter.

So far in his month-old presidency:

Congress passed and Obama signed into law a record $787 billion mix of tax cuts, job-creating projects and aid to struggling states.

The president pledged up to $275 billion in federal aid to help stem a tidal wave of home foreclosures.

The Treasury Department and the Federal Reserve announced financial-rescue steps that could send up to $2 trillion coursing through the economy.

In all, the plans would raise the federal portion of the U.S. economy to some 31 percent, more than twice the level after eight years of FDR's historic New Deal spending.

"i'd say that's a great start for the first 26 days in office."

Yes, whatever. Now go back to your anti Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh rants. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 26, 2009 6:08 PM:

" isn't life great HP? just knowing how slowly these next 8 years will pass for the republicans just makes it all the better!! "

Yup!

I'm enjoying watching old Dorothydog blather away with both his old name and his latest moniker, oldschool.

Watching RWB continue to get it wrong is also pretty enjoyable. Once she gets off her Pigboy talking points, she's pretty confused about most issues.

Edna miller is not really worth commenting on. LOL! "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 26, 2009 6:09 PM:

" Wow, he shore does have a purdy mouf.

See what I mean, hp? "

The Question wrote on Feb 26, 2009 6:15 PM:

" isn't life great HP? just knowing how slowly these next 8 years will pass for the republicans just makes it all the better!!
---
The Germans have a word for it, gents. Schadenfreude.
Please do continue to let us know how you're enjoying having a rational, intelligent man as president and a compassionate political party in charge, Republicans. Quite a change, eh? "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 26, 2009 6:19 PM:

" "Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?" Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000

GWB "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 26, 2009 7:13 PM:

" Check this out:

(Harry Potter wrote on Feb 26, 2009 6:09 PM:
" Wow, he shore does have a purdy mouf.

See what I mean, hp? ")

+++++++++

Harry's talking to himself?

Obviously Harry forgot to change his posting name back to "fatherbob".

BUSTED!!

ROLFMAO!!!!!!! "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 26, 2009 7:23 PM:

" Sorry fb, it looks like my error will cause the cackling hen to blather on about it non stop for days. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 26, 2009 7:27 PM:

" "You work three jobs? Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that you're doing that." to a divorced mother of three, Omaha, Nebraska, Feb. 4, 2005

GWB "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 26, 2009 7:41 PM:

" She got so excited she's posting my error all over the place, fb. I guess it doesn't take much to get old Dorothy all worked up. "

ed miller wrote on Feb 26, 2009 8:43 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Feb 26, 2009 7:41 PM:
" She got so excited she's posting my error all over the place, fb. I guess it doesn't take much to get old Dorothy all worked up. "

LMAO,

The guy who is so worried about who posts under what name is busted at his own game. I mean who talks to themselves in their posts. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 26, 2009 10:25 PM:

" Yep ed,

ole Harry just proved once and for all that he is FatHeadBobby.

And really, who DOES talk to themselves in their posts?

"Not me BDD!"

LOL! "

red,white,blue wrote on Feb 26, 2009 10:45 PM:

" Hey guys, check out the question talking to himself over on Connie Manes's letter. Something funny going on there. I think he temporarily lost track of his alternate personalities. "

injustice85 wrote on Feb 27, 2009 1:40 PM:

" warrior wrote on Feb 25, 2009 8:14 PM:

" Lets get something straight;The only reason Obama's approval ratings are 67% (which I might add is already down from a month ago) is because those democratic socialism networks are working in the public housing areas where minorities live. You can't take 50 crackheads on the street and ask them if they approve of our president because they probably have no clue who are prez is. "

just because they make horrible decisions and mostly don't contribute to society doesn't mean their opinions don't matter, how many people didn't vote Obama cause they thought he was muslim, should their opinions be anymore recognized? unfortunately yes "

arrass wrote on Feb 27, 2009 5:48 PM:

" BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 25, 2009 1:23 PM:
" arrass is still dizzy after I exposed the fact that he really didn't understand what Extraordinary rendition was.

The only things you have exposed are your ignorance of what illegal means and your ability to read whatever you want into, whatever it is you cut and paste.

Nothing you have posted says that it is illegal to bring these people back to the US. It would be illegal to torture them after you bring them back, but the return itself would not be. You have yet to do anything but cut and paste news stories and CIA definitions and interpret them to support your statement that it is illegal to bring them back here.

Just because, by definition, as you are fond of saying, the CIA does not bring them back here does not make it illegal to do so.

The entire purpose of Extraordinary Rendition- is to keep the terror suspect OUTSIDE OF THE U.S. JUSTICE SYSTEM so Intel can be extracted by extraordinary interrogation methods.

In addition to this, there are international legal hurdles in extraditing terror suspects back to the U.S., who are capture through rendition or other means. That was the point of the Washington Post article which stated:

"(Britain and) Other allies have also been reluctant to extradite terrorism suspects for trial in the United States, sometimes letting them go free instead."

The main controversy with rendition of terror suspects is the fact that they are kidnapped and then supposedly "tortured".

There's also the problem of subjecting terrorists to civilian trials where years worth of Intel networks could be exposed.

But let's be honest here, arrass- you never really understood the definition of Extraordinary Rendition- did you.

No, you didn't.

Did you Harry. "

Nothing in this says it is illegal to bring them back here. I understand that the practice of Extraordinary Rendition was to get these people to where we could take actions outside US jurisdiction. It is the actions themselves that they are trying to hide from oversight, not the renditions themselves. They are a tool that has been in use since at least the early 90s..

Over on the Gitmo thread when you were hung up on the LA Times article, you posted this:

Uhm....yeah.....the L.A. Times article that I cited.

"Under executive orders issued by Obama recently, the CIA still has authority to carry out what are known as renditions, secret abductions and transfers of prisoners to countries that cooperate with the United States."

Prominent human rights lawyers, as well as The European Parliament have declared rendition illegal under international law. In late 2007, the U.S. House voted to end CIA renditions, however, the prohibition was never passed in the Senate.

The last I heard was that the House and the Senate have to pass a bill and the President has to sign it for it to be in effect. If we are already doing what is illegal under international law by kidnapping people, why would it be any more of a crime to bring them here than to some foreign country?

If their abduction is considered illegal, then it stands to reason that their transfer to the U.S. is likewise illegal. "

By definition and it stands to reason do not constitute US law.

Go back to sleep, bumpkin.... "

Learn to be civil, peasant. "

arrass wrote on Feb 27, 2009 5:55 PM:

" Between 1993 and 1999, terrorism suspects also were rendered to the United States from Nigeria, the Philippines, Kenya and South Africa in operations acknowledged by U.S. officials. Dozens of other covert renditions, often with Egyptian cooperation, were also conducted, U.S. officials said. The details of most of these operations, which often ignored local and international extradition laws, remain closely guarded.

http://tinyurl.com/653vv

OR

Capture and rendition

In May 1997, an informant walked into the US consulate in Karachi and claimed he could help lead them to Kasi. As proof, he showed a copy of a driver license application made by Kasi under a false name but bearing his photograph. Apparently, the Pashtun tribals who had been sheltering Kasi were now prepared to accept the multi-million dollar reward offer for his capture.[9] Other sources claim they were pressured by the Pakistani government.[1]

Kasi was in the Afghan border regions, so the informant was told to lure Kasi into Pakistan where he could be more easily apprehended. Kasi was tempted with a lucrative business offersmuggling Russian electronic goods into Pakistanwhich brought him to Dera Ghazi Khan, in the Punjab province of Pakistan, where he checked into a room at Shalimar Hotel.[9]

At 4 a.m. on the morning of June 15, 1997, an armed team of FBI agents, working with the Pakistani ISI, raided Kasi's hotel room. His fingerprints were taken on the scene, confirming his identity.

Kasi was transferred to a disputed locationUS authorities claim it was a holding facility run by Pakistani authorities[5], while Pakistani sources claim it was the US embassy in Islamabad[9] before being flown to the US on June 17 in a C-141 transport.[10][5]

During the flight, Kasi made a full oral and written confession to the FBI.[5]

Kasi's extrajudicial rendition was controversial in Pakistanno formal request for his extradition was made, and no extradition proceedings were initiated.[10] US authorities would later assert the rendition was legal under an extradition treaty signed with the UK, back when Pakistan was under colonial rule.[5] Kasi argued against his rendition in court but his assertions were found to have no basis in law. The Court wrote:

the treaty between the United States and Pakistan contains no provision that bars forcible abductions, nor does it otherwise 'purport to specify the only way in which one country may gain custody of a national of the other country for the purposes of prosecution.' Id. at 664 (emphasis added). Nor does the treaty provide that, once a request for extradition is made, the procedures outlined in the treaty become the sole means of transferring custody of a suspected criminal from one country to the other. Finally, because Kasi was not returned to the United States via extradition proceedings initiated under the Extradition Treaty between the United States and Pakistan, Kasi's reliance upon United States v. Rauscher does not avail him.[11]

http://tinyurl.com/am836b "

Rose wrote on Feb 28, 2009 12:35 PM:

" I feel the only way to get out of this mess is to send all the Senators and Representives as well as the President back home and do nothing. Let the chips fall where they may and we will probably get out of this a lot faster and for less money. The government creates more problems and they fix. "

Cognitus wrote on Feb 28, 2009 5:53 PM:

" TIME magazine blew the whistle on Bobby Jindal today:
Jindal bragged that the Stimulus package was so bad he was going to turn it down.
Turns out he's going to turn down only 2% of the Stimulus for his state (the part for unemploymen; pixx on the unemployed)
but will take the rest. IN THE OTHER WORDS, JINDAL ***APPROVES*** 98% OF THE OBAM STIMULUS. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 28, 2009 10:41 PM:

" (arrass - "Nothing you have posted says that it is illegal to bring these people back to the US. It would be illegal to torture them after you bring them back, but the return itself would not be.")

Once again you miss the entire point of Extraordinary Rendition don't you, arrass.

'Extraordinary rendition'

"Extraordinary rendition" is an extra-judicial procedure and policy of the United States in which criminal suspects, generally suspected terrorists or supporters of terrorist organizations, are sent to countries for imprisonment and interrogation. The procedure differs from extradition as the purpose of the rendition is to extract information from suspects, while extradition is used to return fugitives so that they can stand trial or fulfill their sentence. Critics of the procedure have accused the CIA of rendering suspects to other countries in order to circumvent U.S. laws prescribing due process and prohibiting torture."

http://tinyurl.com/64rgm

You seem to keep missing the point that these suspects have timely Intel that needs to be extracted- don't you. The main objective is NOT to bring them to a speedy trial- it's too gain more information as well as put them out of commission.

And the example you cited of Kasi was an example of rendition- NOT Extraordinary Rendition.

How do you send an "Extraordinary rendition" suspect back to the U.S. to stand trial, when the means to extract information from him was performed in a location and by secretive tactics that are not only outside the U.S. Justice System; but by tactics that are considered "illegal" in this country?

So why are all those ACLU attorneys up in arms?

And lastly, if simple rendition was sufficient enough to deal with terrorism; then why is Obama keeping the use of "Extraordinary rendition", and even expanding it's use?

To borrow a phrase from you, arrass:

The only things you have exposed is your ignorance of what "Extraordinary rendition" means.

Was that civil enough for you arrass? "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 28, 2009 10:52 PM:

" (Cognitus - "TIME magazine blew the whistle on Bobby Jindal today:
Jindal bragged that the Stimulus package was so bad he was going to turn it down.")

Uhm....no Cognitus, Jindal said he was going to refuse SOME of it:

POLITICO (Feb 20 2009) Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal announced Friday that he will decline stimulus money specifically targeted at expanding state unemployment insurance coverage, becoming the first state executive to officially refuse any part of the federal governments payout to states.

+++++++

You Left-Wing Moonbats must really be terrified of Jindal to go after him this hard.

Do everyone a favor Cogi, wean yourself away from the Huffington Post and MSNBC, okay? "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 1, 2009 10:45 AM:

" . IN THE OTHER WORDS, JINDAL ***APPROVES*** 98% OF THE OBAM STIMULUS. "

Damn good point! LOL! "

Harry Potter wrote on Mar 1, 2009 11:36 AM:

" Oh yeah, a whole whooping 2%. LOL!

Our friend Cybil appears to be grasping at straws.

This couldn't get any better... "