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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

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Thursday, February 12, 2009 9:50 PM CST
LETTER: Alternatives exist to having abortions

SHERRY HALL, Gays

I just got to say that if you are a Christian then you do not believe in abortion. End of story.

How can anyone, after they have held a newborn baby even think that it is OK to end that precious life? Do you also realize that women after abortion suffer a lot of emotional distress?

America is based upon the belief of God. So, I really doubt this debate will ever end. Look at your dollar bill, “In God We Trust.”

Instead of calling it “Culture Wars” as referred to in the letter, let’s educate those that are thinking about abortions, and let those scared mothers see what is living inside of them with a sonogram. Then they will see it is a living baby. Let’s give them hope that there are loving alternatives.

Christians, keep standing together voicing your concern.

If we shut up, then we have lost the fight to keep these precious babies alive.

SHERRY HALL

Gays

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Rotty wrote on Feb 12, 2009 10:30 PM:

" Oh brother!
Break out the broad paint brushes, here we go again!
LOL! "

gringa wrote on Feb 13, 2009 12:07 AM:

" Yep, I wonder how long it's gonna take for humphries to slime in with her samo-samo "it's a medical decision between the woman and her doctor" theme. Then father bob stumbles in, then question, blah, blah.

Three, two, one ... "

CrowWoman wrote on Feb 13, 2009 8:56 AM:

" Interestingly, studies have found that Christians have just as many abortions as non-Christians. Data from all fifty states show that the rate of abortion is the same in the most-Christian segments of the population as it is in the least-Christian. Surprisingly, Catholics had abortion rates higher than the national average. (Data from CenterforReason.com)

Providing alternatives may help, but the debate hasn't done a whole lot. "

CrowWoman wrote on Feb 13, 2009 8:59 AM:

" I forgot to add that, according to one George Barna survey, at least one in six women sitting in Evangelical Christian churches have had abortions. Over 200,000 or 18% of Christians each year choose abortion as the answer to an unplanned pregnancy.

So you cannot portray this as an "us vs. them" problem, Ms. Hall. "

elbert wrote on Feb 13, 2009 9:23 AM:

" Ms. Hall
Thank you for your letter and your call to action.

I presume that your call to action to prevent abortions includes providing contraception counseling and the provision of contraception so as to reduce the likelihood of an unwanted pregnancy though you didnt say so. In fact, I was disappointed that you didnt enumerate the alternatives available.

Since it is critical that the baby be born, the most important issue is what to do for those babies who are born to people that, for whatever reason do not want or are not able to care for the child. As Christians, one ought to be willing to take that child into their home and raise them with the love that Jesus offered to all children when he said, suffer the little children to come unto me.

You might argue that it is the responsibility of the putative father and mother to raise the child. If so, I agree, but what do you do when they wont or cant.

I believe it is inappropriate to condemn a child to be raised in an unloved environment? Rather they should be raised in a home that will love and cherish them such as the one that support the position of pro life. After all, pro life should not just mean the belief that the baby be born. Rather, pro-life, must be concerned with the entire life of the child or at least be willing to be responsible for the child until he or she is able to assume her or his role in society.

Again thank you for your contribution and I hope to see you in action to show concern for the child by being willing to do whatever is necessary to insure that the child is raised in a loving home. "

jesus wrote on Feb 13, 2009 10:06 AM:

" SHERRY HALL, Gays

I just got to say that if you are a Christian then you do not believe in abortion. End of story.

H_ll lady, their aren't ten Christains left in the USA. Everyone has changed the Bible to suit their own agenda in life. Thanks to all of our so-called Christian politicians GOD is just another word for money and power. If they were Christians as you put it they would keep their legs crossed and not have to make a choice. "

XTownie wrote on Feb 13, 2009 11:24 AM:

" "I just got to say that if you are a Christian then you do not believe in abortion. End of story."

So, Ms. Hall "got" to say it, but obviously it wasn't the "end of story". I "got" to wonder what Ms. Hall will do when a female gets the mandated sonogram and it seals the deal to get an abortion sooner rather than later. The fact is, if it's not wanted before having a sonogram is no guarantee that it would be wanted after. "

Full of flame wrote on Feb 13, 2009 11:31 AM:

" Thank you for you opnion. Abortion is wrong. It does cause much emotional and physical pain to the mother. "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 13, 2009 1:42 PM:

" I didn't want to disapoint you Gringa, I know you love to have your own ignorance, hate and hypocrisy exposed for all to see. The compassion shown by those against FOCA is overwhelming isn't it? "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 13, 2009 3:10 PM:

" CrowWoman,

I recall you stating that you're a Christian.

As a Christian, do you believe that the unborn are human beings with a soul? "

AllYouNeedIsLove wrote on Feb 13, 2009 4:24 PM:

" I am not a fan of abortion, nor do I encourage it, yet I realize that it is every person's choice, as defined by law. Maybe if the author offered to take in the children that would otherwise be aborted, that would help her case, but the truth is, most people, even Christians, don't make offers like that, because they can't take care of so many kids. My question to the author is this, "Who made you God?" "

AllYouNeedIsLove wrote on Feb 13, 2009 4:27 PM:

" Who gave the author a right to play God and determine who is a Christian or not? "

CrowWoman wrote on Feb 13, 2009 7:57 PM:

" BlueDog, I don't know of any Scripture referencing the souls of unborn children, so whatever I might believe is a matter of personal opinion.

A few times since my grandmother died 17 or so years ago, I believe I have sensed her presence. She died suffering from dementia, and when she passed away she did not remember me or know who I was. However, those two or three times I have "felt" her near me, what I felt was the person she once was--memories and knowledge intact.

Yes, I believe that the unborn are human. I like to think, if their lives are interrupted in utero that they live on in some spiritual form, their potential realized. However, there is nothing said in the Bible about the eternal destiny of the unborn. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 13, 2009 11:04 PM:

" Uhm....CrowWoman,

Was that a YES the unborn are human beings,

and

YES they do have souls? "

Rotty wrote on Feb 14, 2009 12:39 AM:

" Some folks seem to be looking for another possible term to associate with "pro-choice" - "pro-death".
Are they the same?
Some seem to think they are.
Are they really?
Nope, not at all.

Perhaps there ought to be two NEW catagories, "pro-life" & "pro-death", with each having sub-catagories of "pro-choice" & "pro-no-choice".

Then maybe some people would finally "get it", & making one legal, & one not, would be easy as pie. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Feb 14, 2009 10:43 AM:

" I dunno.... I think abortion is ABSOLUTELY REPUGNANT and those that use it are less than humane, and think IT SHOULD BE OUTLAWED....but what the heck, the more that I look at the statistics, I'M BEGINNING TO LIKE ABORTION.

The statistics seem to indicate that it's the LIBERAL LEANING segment of the American population that's most often use abortion.

You COMPASSIONATE LIBERALS...you all should be SO PROUD of you're BABY KILLING and all!

SO LET'S GO AHEAD AND KEEP ABORTION LEGAL. IT'S A CONVENIENT WAY TO GET RID OF POTENTIAL DEMOCRATS!!!

Why didn't we think of this sooner?!?! "

jesus wrote on Feb 14, 2009 10:53 AM:

" I knew you even before
you were conceived.

Jeremiah 1:4-5
The word of the LORD came to me, saying,
Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart.

Jeremiah. 1:5. Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, and before you were born I consecrated you.

Before we are even formed in the womb, God knows us. He knows how each day of our lives on earth will unfold. His love and care go with us throughout life.

"I guess God knows that this baby will be murdered even befor it's born and says that's okay, They know not what they do. "

medic57 wrote on Feb 14, 2009 6:49 PM:

" Jesus wrote

H_ll lady, their aren't ten Christains left in the USA. Everyone has changed the Bible to suit their own agenda in life. Thanks to all of our so-called Christian politicians GOD is just another word for money and power. If they were Christians as you put it they would keep their legs crossed and not have to make a choice. "

Sorry, I believe the bible exactly how it was written. AS far as keeping their legs crossed!

Genesis 1:28
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

He didn't say to cross their legs. "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 15, 2009 8:21 AM:

" Medic if God was as intelligent as you claim he would have added a clause to that statement, "within reason". God unfortunately is only as wise as those who have created him in their image. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 15, 2009 8:42 AM:

" The question remains, why didn't the Republicans get rid of abortion while they were in charge of all the House, the Senate, the White house and the Supreme court? This question continues to be ignored by the right wingers. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 15, 2009 9:12 AM:

" Sorry, I believe the bible exactly how it was written.

Guess we won't be seeing you at the Red Lobster, huh? "

CrowWoman wrote on Feb 15, 2009 12:45 PM:

" BlueDog, how can I tell you whether or not the unborn have souls? The Bible doesn't address that question. It has been a point of debate since the time of the early church.

Early Christians condemned abortion, but did not view the termination of a pregnancy to be an abortion before "ensoulment", the definition of when life began in the womb.

When ensoulment occurred was also a matter of debate. Eventually, the idea of "quickening" was used to determine when abortion was legal or not. After a baby "quickened" abortion was illegal. "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 15, 2009 1:09 PM:

" I should have said God is only as wise as those who have created him in their own image! "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 15, 2009 1:51 PM:

" CrowWoman, I believe in all fairness, one should be open to the Biblical inference that indeed, may unborn may have souls:

Jeremiah: 1:4-5; The word of Yahweh was addressed to me , saying, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; before you came to birth I consecrated you; I have appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

Luke 2:21; When the eighth day came and the child was to be circumcised, they gave him the name Jesus, the name the angel had given him before his conception.

CrowWoman, why not err on the side of caution, and give the unborn soul the benefit of the doubt? "

jesus wrote on Feb 15, 2009 2:36 PM:

" medic57 He didn't say to cross their legs. "

"Duh"---I believe he meant for them to be married didn't he? I believe most abortions are non married girls. I could be wrong as I was wrong one other time when you were born.:) "

cedric66 wrote on Feb 15, 2009 4:48 PM:

" Full of flame wrote on Feb 13, 2009 11:31 AM:

" Thank you for you opnion. Abortion is wrong. It does cause much emotional and physical pain to the mother. "

I agree 100% "

medic57 wrote on Feb 15, 2009 9:18 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Feb 15, 2009 1:09 PM:

" I should have said God is only as wise as those who have created him in their own image! "

Susan, you really need to study up on your bible reading. What it really says is this

Gen. 26
And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness.

Sorry, we didn't create God, he created us. As usual, you have it all backward. "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 15, 2009 9:26 PM:

" Sorry Medic the Bible got it wrong. Man has created God in his own image. "

CrowWoman wrote on Feb 15, 2009 9:29 PM:

" BlueDog, if you take the passage from Jeremiah to its logical conclusion, you would have to believe that egg and sperm (that fused to create Jeremiah) somehow had a soul. "Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you." In this passage, God is foretelling Jeremiah's role in life rather than addressing whether he had a soul before birth.

As I said, I do believe that the unborn have a soul, if by that you mean something that lives on after death. It's just that the Bible does not really address the subject. That makes sense because the Jewish people didn't believe in the legal personhood of an unborn child. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 15, 2009 9:46 PM:

" (CrowWoman - "God is foretelling Jeremiah's role in life rather than addressing whether he had a soul before birth.")

How could he NOT have had a soul before birth?

The passage says point blank: "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; before you came to birth I consecrated you;"

How could God have "known" him, much less "consecrate" him BEFORE birth unless he existed as a soul?

But more to the point;

IF you believe there is a possibility that the unborn have souls, how can you even consider killing them? "

CrowWoman wrote on Feb 15, 2009 10:01 PM:

" What faith are you, BlueDog? Christians don't generally believe that souls exist separately and before their bodies do. Maybe it's a Mormon belief? Anyway, it is a belief that I do not share (that a person's soul is in existence before the body is). "

CrowWoman wrote on Feb 15, 2009 10:06 PM:

" Oh, BDD, I never said I was in favor of abortion--except in those "hard cases" that some of us were discussing earlier. Even then, I would see it as being permitted rather than being anything like an ideal solution.

That's my belief, as contrasted with the legal reality. I've been emphasizing that debating beliefs does not stop or reduce abortion. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Feb 15, 2009 11:00 PM:

" " The question remains, why didn't the Republicans get rid of abortion while they were in charge of all the House, the Senate, the White house and the Supreme court? This question continues to be ignored by the right wingers. "
------------------------------------
To decrease the number of liberals in the population, DUH! "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Feb 16, 2009 7:34 AM:

" "Pro-choice Bumperstickers we'd all like to see:

"Pro-choice"...it really is the best option for Liberals and Democrats.

Abortion...."growing" the GOP one fetus at a time.

Roe v. Wade for Democrats... it's not just a good idea...it's the law!

Democrat? Here... let me drive you to the abortion clinic!

Democrat? When in doubt, abort first!

Planned "Parenthood" Founder Margret Sanger...what a Genius!

Save the World--Insist upon abortion for Democrats!

More to come.... "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 16, 2009 7:44 AM:

" CrowWoman BDD doesn't comprehend metaphorical concepts, such things as the concept "to know" a woman! Or maybe he believes in reincarnation, if so he should be careful he might be returning next as a dung beetle. Or more likely he really has no beliefs he just argues without conviction for any opposite point, which is why his arguments fail. "

CrowWoman wrote on Feb 16, 2009 8:45 AM:

" Susan, I don't believe in reincarnation, but I have to admit it intrigues me to think about a couple of people I know returning to earth as dung beetles.... "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 16, 2009 8:47 AM:

" Uhm....Susan,

How exactly do you interpret the use of the word "know" in this passage:

Jeremiah: 1:4-5; The word of Yahweh was addressed to me , saying, "Before I formed you in the womb I knew you; before you came to birth I consecrated you; I have appointed you as a prophet to the nations." "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 16, 2009 8:49 AM:

" Oh and Susan,

as far as your reincarnation theory of a "dung beetle",

I'm quite sure you will come back as part of that phrase; just not the "beetle" part.

But hey, like you don't already "know" that.

LOL "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 16, 2009 8:51 AM:

" What "faith" am I CrowWoman?

I'm a recovering Atheist. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 16, 2009 9:43 AM:

" (Susan - "CrowWoman BDD doesn't comprehend metaphorical concepts, such things as the concept "to know" a woman!")

And this coming from Susan Humphreys.
The genius who invented the word "sensical".

LOL

Go back to sleep Shemphreys.

ROFLMAO! "

Teacher2 wrote on Feb 16, 2009 9:50 AM:

" It is truly unfortunate that seemingly intelligent Americans can't have civil conversations about politics. The pure beauty of our nation is that we can openly discuss such matters, yet we manage to, as we have so many other wonderful rights we enjoy, take this for granted. We get so caught up in our self-righteous political game we forget the true consequences of our actions. It is no longer a discussion but a fight, and neither side listens to the other, making it a fruitless effort. I've now read several blogs, and I am deeply disturbed by the microcosm of political thought that confronts me. We have fallen into the trap that the only way politics can be interesting is if it is us versus them. Shumphreys tried to say such a thing in previous notes, but then relegated him or herself to name-calling and apparent bitterness. As far as the topic at hand, I have no idea what it would be like to be a woman. If my daughter was raped, I can only imagine what would be going through my mind. That being said, an innocent life is an innocent life, a heartbeat is a heartbeat, and I don't see how taking another INNOCENT life (the death penalty argument holds no water)fixes a matter. I believe a woman should have a choice when it comes to just her body. I believe that women should be revered and respected equally, if not more than men. But our nation is based around the ideas that one person's rights should not infringe upon another's. And truly, is there anything more precious than the right to life? "

Rockin Rotty wrote on Feb 16, 2009 10:43 AM:

" You guys, & ladies, are too much!
LMAO!
Rock On! "

Rockin Rotty wrote on Feb 16, 2009 10:48 AM:

" Good post, Teacher2!
Welcome to the mix of assorted nuts.
LOL! "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Feb 16, 2009 12:47 PM:

" Hey Teacher2...

If life is SSSSOOO precious in this
country, why is it that the country's verging on 50 million abortions since 1973...?

36 years has been long enough for "pleasant discourse" over the "right" for women to kill their babies.

If there's going to be any exceptions, rape and incest are the two. These two exceptions are so rare it would make abortion virtually non-existent.

But hey what the heck....Let's insist upon D & C's (Dilation and curettage) for members of the DNC (Democratic National Committee)!

Anymore "deeply disturbed" yet? If not I can try harder... "

Hahvahd wrote on Feb 16, 2009 2:07 PM:

Hahvahd wrote on Feb 16, 2009 2:09 PM:

" Neocon, how "pro-life" can you be if you're advocating death for Democrats? You're a prime example of the bitter partisanship that is ruining this country! "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Feb 16, 2009 2:58 PM:

" Neocon, you really must like to argue, because you're slamming a poster, Teacher2, who has agreed with the pro-life stance on abortion, or did you even bother to read his post? Basically you're slamming someone who agrees with you, but is also advocating less contentiousness in debates. "

AND

" Neocon, how "pro-life" can you be if you're advocating death for Democrats? You're a prime example of the bitter partisanship that is ruining this country! "
---------------------------------

1) Ah yeah, I read it.
2) It sounds to me as though your reading comprehension is slightly lacking.

After all the subterfuge at the beginning of the post, there was the line, "I believe a woman should have a choice when it comes to just her body", which means Teacher2 is pro-abortion.

Maybe you didn't gather that:

1) I loathe the socialists (democrats).
2) I am only for the abortion of their babies for their inhumane support for abortion.

As for the statement, "You're a prime example of the bitter partisanship that is ruining this country!", well thank you.

Thank you very much, indeed!

Where were you when the dumocrats where spewing their lies, deceit, and hatefulness over the past 8 years? "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 16, 2009 3:48 PM:

" Teaqcher2 I suggest you go back and read the threads again. I am the one that doesn't resort to name calling, BDDs favorite is calling me "Suzy" and others "libtard" to name a few. NOW you don't need to apologize, just try to get the facts straight next time. I do however give back what I am given, slam for slam, but no name calling. "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 16, 2009 4:04 PM:

" Teacher2 the issue comes down (as you say)to what do you do when the rights of a fetus (if the fetus has rights) interferes with the womans rights? Whose rights come first? AND who has the right to decide whos rights come first, you, me, your God my God, my holy book of scripture, your holy book of scripture, the woman, her Doctor, somebody elses Doctor, a bureaucrat, a judge appointed by a pro-life president or a judge appointed by a pro-choice president.......? "

Lurker61920 wrote on Feb 16, 2009 4:18 PM:

" I'm still trying to understand why in some states if a man kills a woman and it kills the fetus, he is charged with double homicide; however, the woman can choose to kill the baby and get by with it?

Shumphreys, you seem to know everything about abortion rights, so can you explain that one to me? "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 16, 2009 4:37 PM:

" Lurker,

I've been pounding the Fetal Homicide Laws for days now.

Thus far, no pro-choicer has an answer. "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 16, 2009 4:45 PM:

" Thanks for the compliment Lurker, I have pointed out the difference is an issue of choice. Choosing to have an abortion or choosing not to have an abortion (having a fetus taken from you against your will that you have planned for and want). Many forget that the right to choose guarantees a womans right TO have an abortion as well as a womans right NOT to have an abortion. "

Teacher2 wrote on Feb 16, 2009 5:05 PM:

" I will apolegize even though you don't require one, shumphreys. You are correct in asserting you have stayed away from name-calling on this particular subject, though I don't have time to check the previous ones. However, some of your comments are far less than civil, and were undeniably malitious attacks on another poster's intelligence.

Neo-con, I am as pro-life as you will meet, you misinterpreted what I said. However, judging by your rhetoric, I don't know that you and I would be considered alliances in the political realm. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Feb 16, 2009 7:53 PM:

" "I believe a woman should have a choice when it comes to just her body".
-----------------

I'm not sure how that could be misinterpreted...but okay...no harm no foul.

As for, "I don't know that you and I would be considered alliances in the political realm. " Probably not as I don't tend to play well with others..... "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 16, 2009 7:55 PM:

" Your apology is accepted Teacher2. Yes some of my comments are far from being civil but do note I don't throw the first punch. AND I have asserted time and time again that people should stick to the subject and avoid the personal attacks. Personal attacks are simply ways to avoid addressing the issues at hand. "

caringmom wrote on Feb 16, 2009 10:06 PM:

" Sherry Hall

I just have to say that if you are a Christian then you do not judge others for their actions, it is not your place to judge..end of story. "

medic57 wrote on Feb 17, 2009 2:30 AM:

" Sherry

You made 1 small mistake in your statement that there are alternatives to abortion.

You assumed people like Susan want alternatives. They Don't. "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 17, 2009 7:06 AM:

" Medic you are a lier. The Freedom of Choice Act is exactly that, freedom for a woman to choose an abortion and freedom for a woman to choose NOT to have an abortion. AND that is VERY important to remember. "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 17, 2009 7:09 AM:

" One more question Teacher2. Why did you single me out for your approbation rather than address your comments to those that initiate the uncivil behavior? Honesty here would be good for your soul. "

Teacher2 wrote on Feb 17, 2009 10:02 AM:

" I did not intend to make you sound like the main perpetrator of incivility, the others are obviously worse. I was simply pointing out that you made a valid point on a previous post and then seemingly reneged on it. "Invicta you are a seriously disturbed, sick puppy. Try addressing issues in a responsible fashion. If all you can do is attack personalities it proves that you haven't a moral leg to stand on."

Whereas I agree that you don't seem to initiate, you also don't seem to be above the pettiness. But then, I guess I should probably shut up, as I can understand getting drawn into such situations, and I really don't mean to get on my high horse. I am just disappointed in the conversations I read as I feel they are not in the interest of the greater good, but instead in the interest of making the other person look stupid (which I am often guilty of myself). I am hoping that there is a way we can reverse this trend to make the government and politics about reaching a common goal of having the best possible nation, not simply be about defeating the other party or ideologues. "

Rotty wrote on Feb 17, 2009 10:10 AM:

" Susan, grow up.
(I just had to say that.)
LOL!
Ole girl, you were on a roll, don't blow it now.
If you can't see why people constantly single you out, you're more ignorant than I thought.
Get with the program, Suzie - stick with your Pro-Choice campaign, & just maybe, you'll be back in my good graces. "

father bob wrote on Feb 17, 2009 10:30 AM:

" CrowWoman wrote on Feb 13, 2009 8:59 AM:
" I forgot to add that, according to one George Barna survey, at least one in six women sitting in Evangelical Christian churches have had abortions. Over 200,000 or 18% of Christians each year choose abortion as the answer to an unplanned pregnancy.

So you cannot portray this as an "us vs. them" problem, Ms. Hall. """""

that pretty much says it all.

~remember to support planned parenthood, your contributions are tax deductible!~ "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Feb 17, 2009 10:33 AM:

" caringmom wrote on Feb 16, 2009 10:06 PM:

" Sherry Hall

... if you are a Christian then you do not judge others for their actions, it is not your place to judge..end of story. "
-------------------------

That's bologna.

If you are a Chrsitian, as you say you are, caringmom, you need to brush up on your scripture.

Maybe you go to one of the those "touchy feely", it's all about the socializing, churches that never really asks you to know what's in the Bible? You just get sound bites from the bible during your services and now your passing judgment with your post here...

YOU, ME, and EVERYONE make judgements upon the actions of others on a dialy basis. You are not, however, to PASS judgement (cause condemnation) on the actions of others. Big difference.

Otherwise, with your philosophy, when your kid goes and runs out into the middle of a busy intersection make sure you don't say a word. Don't want to pass judgment now do you. See if the kid gets run over. Some mom you'd be if the kid does get run over, huh?

"You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one. But if I do judge, My decisions are right, because I am not alone. I stand with The Father, who sent Me." (John 8:15-16)

Just as with this blog topic. Abortion is wrong. I won't hate you becuase you have had an abortion (well...unless you are a democrat...then it's to be expected).... but I will tell you it is wrong... "

Billie Brant wrote on Feb 17, 2009 2:20 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Feb 16, 2009 7:55 PM:

" Your apology is accepted Teacher2. Yes some of my comments are far from being civil but do note I don't throw the first punch. AND I have asserted time and time again that people should stick to the subject and avoid the personal attacks. Personal attacks are simply ways to avoid addressing the issues at hand." ... Yes. Please Susan, let's stick to the subject and avoid personal attacks shall we? Are you willing to do it also? ....I thought not.Let's go on.

shumphreys wrote on Feb 17, 2009 7:09 AM:
" One more question Teacher2. Why did you single me out for your approbation rather than address your comments to those that initiate the uncivil behavior? Honesty here would be good for your soul. "....... You just COULD NOT accept Teacher2's apology at face value could you. NO! You felt the need to roast Teacher just a little bit more.,,,,,,Susan---While I will admit to my smartazz ways at times, you my dear need to do the same. Take to heart the last sentence of your post and try it yourself sometime. It might do your soul some good also.

I can not remember you ever apologizing to anyone. If I'm wrong, please point it out to me, and I will offer one to you. You did come close to actually considering someone MIGHT have a right to their own opinions even if they differ from yours in this post.....shumphreys wrote on Feb 8, 2009 12:21 PM: ...." I'm not WRONG Medic, YOU are the one that is WRONG. OR shall we just accept that we have different opinions, and neither is right or wrong. They are simply different views of how to handle/best address a complicated issue.".... Of course you had to qualify the statement first by declaring in bold face print that you were not WRONG.

You very often initiate the uncivil behavior you decry in your post. You do throw the first punch many times. Your first punch is often in the letters you write and also in your first response to someone else's letter or post. Many of us bob and weave to fend them off while doubling up our fists to strike back. Yes, there are times when others stick you with a hard right hook first. I'll have to admit you are often a formidable foe and you give as good as you get. Actually I admire that. You know very well what you're doing Susan. No one that I remember has ever accused you of being unintelligent. You know your letters and posts are going to stir things up. That is your intent. AND there is nothing wrong with that. That's what these forums are for. But please do not play the part of the innocent victim here. It doesn't wash!

You're very slick at your "name calling" by not actually calling anyone names, but suggesting them.

An example from this thread...." Or maybe he believes in reincarnation, if so he should be careful he might be returning next as a dung beetle"---- reference to BDD" Pretty slick Sue, but clearly transparent -----name calling.

How about a few more?
"Don't be an idiot Medic after the child is born it's life isn't tied to the life of the woman that bore the child." from the "Act's intent is to put Roe v. Wade into law" letter. While not actually saying Medic is an idiot, the suggestion was there. Again, pretty slick!

" Mr. Miller Air bags (like you,oh sorry couldn't resist). From "Christians should take a stand for sanctity of life "letter... Cute Susan, but you actually did resort to a little name calling here.

Then we have your favorite comeback "grow up"when someone has "gotten your goat" Tsk tsk! Temper temper!

Just admit it Susan. You like most of us, myself included have resorted to using "pet names" and being uncivil at times due to the highly emotional and controversial subject matters being discussed. It's not an unforgiveable sin ya know. :-)

Personally, I think you enjoy or crave the attention both positive AND negative you glean from all of this Susan. Rest assured. You won't be ignored. You've helped to transform the game of oneupmenship to an art form. "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 17, 2009 3:04 PM:

" Fair enough Teacher2. One way to get to a civil debate is to stick up for those who are unfairly attacked. Although doing so will bring their rath down upon your head as CrowWoman has discovered many times. Another way is to be willing to speak up and address the issues. If someone makes a good point even if you don't like it acknowledge it. Speak up for common ground and moderation. ALL too often the debate (although that isn't really quite what this is) is carried on by those on both ends of the extremes and those folks in the middle avoid saying anything and then can't figure out why the world is in the mess it is in. In my view silence is complicity. Until the mass in the middle have the courage to speakup the extremeists will rule the day. "

Rockin Rotty wrote on Feb 17, 2009 3:18 PM:

" Here Here, Billie!
Amen!
Rock On, Billie Brant!
Well Said!
[2 Thumbs Up] "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 17, 2009 3:44 PM:

" (Billie - "Pretty slick Sue, but clearly transparent -----name calling.")

Yep Billie,

You nailed shemphreys.

I clearly recall a debate I had with ole Susan sensible-shoes a month or so ago, I was beating her to a pulp over a debate on whether Obama was a real Christian.

Susan replied:

"I suspect that he is more Diest than Thiest, far to intelligent, educated and well read to be a simple Theist."

A clear insult to all of Christianity.

This is what Susan does:

She lies,

and loses debates with me. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 17, 2009 3:46 PM:

" Billie my friend, I have to take issue with you on this topic. No one takes more abuse than Susan on this site. Does she get her little snipes in? Absolutely. The nastiest and meanest poster on this site is the one currently posting as BlueDogDemocrat, not Susan. Rarely does he post with out getting personal and down right mean, and you know it.

I know he has always been respectful of you, even from back in the days when he posted as Doh, but come on now Billie, are you giving him a pass by focusing on Susan?

You jump on Susan for not apologising, but when did you ever see the other guy apologise. He wouldn't even apologise for mocking kids with handicaps.

Considering you usual sense of fair play, I was somewhat surprised by your last post. "

Lurker61920 wrote on Feb 17, 2009 4:42 PM:

" choice. Choosing to have an abortion or choosing not to have an abortion (having a fetus taken from you against your will that you have planned for and want). Many forget that the right to choose guarantees a womans right TO have an abortion as well as a womans right NOT to have an abortion

Okay Shumphreys, I think I understand now.....a woman can choose to kill a fetus and that's okay because that's her CHOICE to kill it....someone else killing a fetus would be charged because it wasn't the mother's choice. Yes, yes, that makes perfect sense (sarcastic of course). What about the babies choice? One day they are content and warm and cuddly in their mommies stomach and the next day someone is sucking out their brains because the mother chose to do so. That makes complete sense (to an idiot maybe). "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 17, 2009 4:50 PM:

" Thank you Billie for your kind words, I warned you and others quite early on that one should never waken a sleeping dragon, but you did anyway. Sorry that I am better at your game than you are. "

The Shadow wrote on Feb 17, 2009 6:11 PM:

" AgAiN i SaY, gRoW uP cHiLdReN! dAmN hYpOcRiTeS! "

.Doh. wrote on Feb 17, 2009 6:42 PM:

" Harry, you have alot of room to be talking, leftard. How many of those sweetheart lefties do YOU give a pass to each and every day? The nastiest and meanest poster on this site is the one currently posting as Harry Potter, with shumphreys running a close second, and YOU know it. Stop acting like a child, Harry, and worry more about your posting etiquette. Relax big fella. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 17, 2009 7:44 PM:

" Looks like someone forgot their password. That's what happens when you post under a dozen different names. lol... "

injustice85 wrote on Feb 17, 2009 7:51 PM:

" abortions again? doesn't anyone ever write about music or something lol, how about that Zeppelin? lol "

Billie Brant wrote on Feb 17, 2009 8:20 PM:

" HP, I used Susan's reference to BDD, Medic and Ed Miller to illustrate that yes indeed she DOES resort to name calling. She's just sneakier about it. If you will read on, I admitted that I and others have done it also. There's a bunch of us that aren't squeaky clean on that score. I'm not giving anyone a pass, myself included. But for her to sit there and pontificate that she's above all of that struck a raw nerve with me. It just "ain't" so!

BDD can get intense that's a given and I can't say I always go along with him either, Would I like to see some words of explanation or apology once in awhile yes, but all of us could do that once in awhile don't you think? Some could say( and have) they don't approve of me, as well as you my friend. Shoot! I've even tweaked your nose a little. :-) And still I consider you my frioend. You don't get all bent out of shape if I disagree with you. The same goes for me toward you. The point is sarcasm can get out of hand and it has on many occasions. And Susan has contributed her share of it. She's not blameless here much as she would like to think so.

As far as my focusing on Susan, she's the one I disagree with most as far as ideas and concepts go as BDD and you are polar opposites. You and BDD do quite well slinging your arrows back and forth.

You say she gets beat up on here. Why is that HP? Could it be she invites it?
She reminds me of those little barking dogs that have to have the last word. Most of her posts , at least to me seem angry and devoid of any sense of fair play to her opponents or in other words "my way or no way".

AND they are absolutely devoid of ANY humor. I doubt if she knows where humor starts and ends and sarcasm begins or vice versa. I've found that humor can be a healing thing. I knew and lived with someone for many years who had so many reasons to be mad at the world because of the severe blows life dealt him. He chose not to give in to that humorless world. He had more reasons than many folks to be bitter, but he wasn't.Since he's been gone I've tried very hard not to give in to feelings of depair and let it swallow me whole. He taught me there's always room for laughter even when the storms are the blackest and raging all around us.

I find myself laughing out loud at some of yours, fb's and yes BDD's posts even if I don't go along with the ideas. You guys are hoots sometimes. I'm not that clever or witty.

You too Rotty!

Make no mistake about it HP my friend, she gets her "little snipes in" in spades and cries foul whenever someone challenges her in an agressive manner.

Most of the time I just let her rant with her sense of superiority, but once in awhile I strike back.

So I guess HP old friend, we'll have to agree to disagree on my assessment of Susan. I don't claim to have the insight that Susan has by proxy due to her psychologist relatives. I use my own noggin and common sense. I" calls em as I sees em". Sometimes I'm wrong.

Now she "warns" me(and others) that I've awakened the "sleeping dragon" I'm shaking in my boots! LOL! I'll keep my fire extinguisher handy Susan, and it will hit you right in your fire breathing mouth when you least expect it. So dear, enjoy your moment of "winning' if you think you have won this round.

Talk to you later HP. Still friends I hope. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 17, 2009 8:31 PM:

" (HarryTard whines - "The nastiest and meanest poster on this site is the one currently posting as BlueDogDemocrat, not Susan.")

Several things here Harry;

1) From the very first day I posted in here, you launched personal attacks on me and accused me of being a multitude of other people. I took it for a while, and then I decided to fight back.
In fact, I've destroyed you each and every time we've debated; like the last time for example, when you tried to challenge me over Obama's "private" inaugural donors. I not only cited evidence that he was using bundlers, I also nailed your pathetic attempted to pass off a far-left moonbat site as an actual news source.

Remember that Harry? You got in such a knicker-twisting hissy-fit over that you vowed never to converse with me again. LOL What a wimp.

2) The only handicap kids I ever mocked in here were Libtards like you and FatHeadBob. Handicap? Yes. Kids? Definitely.

3) Susan gets the flack that she brings on herself. Her hypocritical, smug, self-righteous holier-than-thou attitude, coupled with her blithering ignorance, easily overshadows the worst Bible-beating preacher one could imagine. And if she were such a staunch opponent, you wouldn't have to rush to her aid all of the time. Most posters think she's a lunatic of a joke.

And last but not least; I sleep peacefully at night knowing, Harry, that I (above all other posters) drive you absolutely friggin nutz.

And I won't even brag Harry. Even though I know that gets to you worse than anything in the world. Besides, I don't need to brag. After all, I'm just a simple, humble, uneducated man, who is fascinated with facts.

And you've never been able to defeat the facts. Have you HarryTard. "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 17, 2009 9:13 PM:

" Lurker you understand little. It is ALL about not judging, not laying a guilt trip on a person who is faced with a difficult decision. IT is about working to stop unwanted pregnancies with full complete unbiased education and FREE birth control for men and women, medical care for pregnant women who choose to carry a baby term and for women who choose to abort. If a woman chooses to abort that is her business and NOT yours, NOT mine, only hers. The compassionate/moral person "judges not that ye be not judged" and offers what ever help and support is needed for whatever decision a woman makes. "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 17, 2009 9:16 PM:

" AND Lurker when YOU are able to carry each of these fetuses to term yourself or find a surrogate to carry the fetus AND as Ebert has pointed out repeatedly when you are willing to adopt each and everyone of them or find homes for them, then you can have a say in what happens to them. "

Billie Brant wrote on Feb 17, 2009 10:08 PM:

" Hey Injustice85---- I've got a dog named Zeppelin. Actually she belongs to my daughter now since I moved to town but I think "Ol Zepp still claims me. She sure seems glad to see me when I visit the farm. She's a big black Rott, Chow and Lab mix. What a sweetie she is! I miss her.

It ain't music, but will 'Ol Zepp do to lighten things up a little? :-)Rock on! "

Rotty wrote on Feb 17, 2009 11:28 PM:

" Wow, just plain, Wow!
LOL!

Rip roarin evening in here tonight.

Thanks, Billie!
LOL!
[wink wink]

Great posts, gang!
Mattoon doesn't need a slaughter house, the one here is just fine.
LOL!

Here we are sittin down,
room is spinning round & round;
Take this poke & take this jab,
coming online more than to blab;
Look at it get hot & intense,
some are clever & some are dense;
Sane folks must look at us & laugh,
thinking it must be just a gaffe;
Now let's end this little assault,
before it too winds up as Doh's fault.

ROTFLMAO!!!!

Now back to your Pro-Life & Pro-Choice show.

Good night, gang, Uncle Miltie must now hang up his cleats. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 18, 2009 7:05 AM:

" Wow, and where to begin with Cybil's meltdown....

Here goes: The prevaricating Cybil must be delusional too. I think that one could easily conclude (after reading his meltdowns from last night) just who is driving who "friggin nutz".

I don't go looking to cut people down, I only do that to those who do the same to me. I also have a tendency to go after those who constantly crow about how great they are. This is especially true for Cybil who continues to boast and give himself praise, and by blatantly using other names to do it.

Our friend Cybil buttons are so easy to find, and pushing them is irresistible at times.

By the way, It's not just me who has picked up on his style of posting under multiple names. We don't call him Cybil for nothing.

And I see he's still trying to weasel out of his insensitive short bus jokes.

Poor little guy had a rough night last night. After that cathartic meltdown, I really hope he did sleep "peacefully". "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 18, 2009 7:22 AM:

" Billie blaming the victim, whether it is the rape victim the victim of domestic abuse, is the the common tactic of bullies, "she invites onto herself." Why do I invite your abuse Billie? Is it because I promote ideas you disagree with? Is it because I refuse to be bullied and give back better than what I get? Is it because I don't know my place? OR is it a combination of having ideas that you don't agree with and have no sound argument against? "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 18, 2009 7:27 AM:

" There are two ways to handle bullies Billie. You can ignore them, but that only seems to embolden them. For some of the bullies here their purpose appears to be to shut down discussion of ideas they don't approve of. Ignoring them would enable them to accomplish their goal. The other way to handle bullies is to play their game only better. AND yes it is a game you and several others play. For those that play games the only way to handle them is to expose the game, call it for what it is, which I have done several times, and if it that doesn't put an end to the childishness then play the game better than your opponent. Your comments show that you don't like being beaten at your own game.There is a third way to deal with bullies and game players, that would be for a moderator to actually moderate! "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 18, 2009 10:30 AM:

" Of course, Billie. Later... "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 18, 2009 10:31 AM:

" Susan?

If I throw a stick,

will you leave? "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 18, 2009 10:43 AM:

" Hey Harry?

It's bad enough that you've gone full-blown coo-coo for cocco-puffs with your delusional obsession of All-Names-Are-Doh; but could you please refrain from your little act of crying to Billie when your girlfriend Susan sour-head gets beaten-up?

It's as if you're running to mommy cause the neighbor kid gave you a widdle boo-boo.

As "sensical" Susan would say:

"Oh grow-up Harry!"

*tee hee hee*

(I'm soooooooooo bad............) "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 18, 2009 10:47 AM:

" (shumphreys - "and if it that doesn't put an end to the childishness then play the game better than your opponent.")

....and Susan does unto others as those eeeeeevil Christians do unto her.............

*sniff sniff*

(I smell hypocrisy)

and it smells like Susan Humphreys burning...... "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 18, 2009 11:17 AM:

" For some of the bullies here their purpose appears to be to shut down discussion of ideas they don't approve of....

That's true, but there is another purpose, and that is to harass certain people off these boards, and sadly our friend has done that very thing.

I have noticed more than one person going head to head with him, but after getting nowhere, just giving up and stopping posting all together. That's a real shame.

As hard as he tries, he can't seem to get the best certain people, and I think that's what is really frustrating him. Thus his constant crowing about his masterful beatdowns, as he calls them.

I really have to question his stability at times. "

Billie Brant wrote on Feb 18, 2009 11:52 AM:

" Well Susuan, again you are confusing standing up for one's ideas and defending themselves as bullying. I don't understand this because you do both( standing up for your ideas and defend yourself) so well. You say you give as good as you get! That's true. But the same should be tolerated by you from others. I don't consider your words toward others as bullying although some may. Are we supposed to just take what you say or throw out there no matter how abrasive it is sometimes and just shut up? You sure won't, and no one expects you to. Tit for tat here Susan. Perhaps your suggestion of the "moderator' "moderating" would result in some of your posts not showing up also eh?

You have mistorted my "inviting" comment to suit your own purposes. NEVER have I EVER blamed a victim of rape or domestic violence. The purpertrator of the violence CHOOSES to inflict the violence on his/her victim. Yes Susan. Some men have been the victims also.

I HAVE BEEN THE VICTIM of domestic violence, from the hands of my ex-husband more than thirty-five years ago. Black eyes, hair pulled out by the roots, PLUS the emotional abuse that goes with it. I'll tell ya this, he ended up with a black eye or two also because even though he could overpower me, I got my licks in. I was not going to stand there and let him beat on me and not fight back. The same went for his verbal abuse. No, I was not a passive victim!

Thank God, I finally found the strength to GET OUT. Getting out, going to school to learn a trade and later finding the man who was a true husband and "real dad" to my daughters was a blessing for which I'll be grateful for the rest of my life. Those years were the best of my life and my kids lives. The physical abuse I suffered from the hands of my ex even after our divorce STOPPED when I met my soulmate. One threat from him to the ex stopped him cold!

Having daughters, granddaughters and two great-granddaughters make me VERY concerned about any kind of abuse aimed toward women. My daughters( and that includes my step-daughter) are strong independant young women fully capable of supporting themselves. Two are four year college graduates, one a community collge grad( who is self employed), one had a year of college and is in a high level management job in the computer field One of the four year grads has a mangement postion in the banking industry and the other one has a great job with a medical supply company.

Am I proud? You bet I am! These women would never feel as though they would have to stay in a reltionship because they had no choice. Women of my generation were made to feel as though we had to. I at the time was a stay-at-home wife and mom without any special job skills. Help wasn't readily available for us back then as it is now.

So, as far as your assessment that I don't like to be "beaten at my own game ", I can throw that right back at 'cha! Sometimes winning is knowing when to shut up. It doesn't mean defeat, nor does it mean we are weak. It simply means sometimes no matter what we say, we are not going to change the other persons mind.

As the prayer that they use at AA says(paraphrasing) Change the things you can, accept the things you can't, and have the wisdom to know the difference.

So have at it Susan. I don't see the world the same as you and probably never will. "

father bob wrote on Feb 18, 2009 11:53 AM:

" BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 18, 2009 10:47 AM:
"and it smells like Susan Humphreys burning...... """""

sounds like a violent threat to me....seems as though maybe you need to control your anger before you start threatening people online. you could end up behind bars.....where you belong. "

Billie Brant wrote on Feb 18, 2009 12:04 PM:

" BDD- I don't consider HP's comments to me as "crying to Billie" or "running to mommy". If he feels the need to defend Susan so be it. He has that right.

As far as anyone posting under multiple names I do think the references to it are tiresome. I simply don't care "who" someone "is" or "was". Take them at face value now as to who they are now. If they choose to "be" several personnas oh well!

I did take exception awhile back when some creep found a way to post under another's post name. That WAS dirty pool! "

father bob wrote on Feb 18, 2009 12:11 PM:

" i really think it's time for someone to take their meds and get a grip on reality. threatening someone should require a little downtime and reflection on ones words and actions. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 18, 2009 1:42 PM:

" (father bob whines - "sounds like a violent threat to me....seems as though maybe you need to control your anger before you start threatening people online. you could end up behind bars.....where you belong.")

Sounds like FatHeadBobby needs to re-adjust HIS meds. LOL

By all means bobby, explain to all of us the "threat" in my statement:

"and it smells like Susan Humphreys burning"

Watch closely folks.

Bobby will display the Fascist tendencies to constrain free speech by all those who oppose his brand of uber-Liberalism. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 18, 2009 1:49 PM:

" father bob wrote on Feb 18, 2009 12:11 PM:

" i really think it's time for someone to take their meds and get a grip on reality. threatening someone should require a little downtime and reflection on ones words and actions. "

Agreed!

Were you around when he had his meltdown over on Coonseys sight when it looked like Obama was going to get the nomination, fb? He went off spewing some of the nastiest vile racial stuff you ever saw. When Coonsey objected, he threatened to sue her. I always thought he was intoxicated that night. Sometimes, especially when he gets all worked up, I thinks he's had too much sauce. Some call it bottle courage. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 18, 2009 1:50 PM:

" (Billie - "BDD- I don't consider HP's comments to me as "crying to Billie" or "running to mommy". If he feels the need to defend Susan so be it. He has that right.")

Of course Harry has that "right" Billie.

The point, is that he feels there is a "need" in the first place. Especially since he has expounded on Susan's "brilliance" and wisdom.

Therein lies the contradiction and the stupidity of his statements. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 18, 2009 2:00 PM:

" At least I don't resort to making up phony names to sing my praises. lol... "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 18, 2009 2:00 PM:

" (Billie - "As far as anyone posting under multiple names I do think the references to it are tiresome.")

I completely agree, Billie.

It's beyond tedious and boring. But I'm afraid Harry is obsessed with his paranoia, so he will continue to spew this garbage...on...and on....and on....and on..........and on...... "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 18, 2009 2:05 PM:

" Billie, the problem with our friend, is that it's perfectly OK with him for some one to slam Susan, but when I defend her he throws on of his little school girl hissy fits. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 18, 2009 2:09 PM:

" (Harry Potter - "Were you around when he had his meltdown over on Coonseys sight when it looked like Obama was going to get the nomination, fb? He went off spewing some of the nastiest vile racial stuff you ever saw. When Coonsey objected, he threatened to sue her. I always thought he was intoxicated that night. Sometimes, especially when he gets all worked up, I thinks he's had too much sauce. Some call it bottle courage.")

There you have it folks.

Harry's delusions know no bounds. LOL

Harry, I think you should give us details of this story. In fact, I think you should post as often as possible about this heinous crime that you think I....or whoever, perpetrated on a site I've never even heard of, much less been to.

Go for broke Harry. Put your tin-foil hat on it's maximum "11" setting and go for full-tilt meltdown, my friend.

It will probably be therapeutic for you, and I guarantee it will be a real knee-slapper.

I can't wait.

*snicker* "

father bob wrote on Feb 18, 2009 2:16 PM:

" funny how the maggot comes near meltdown when someone questions his words...and how he reacts to someone taking something out of context just a tad and distorting it.

great fun today!! "

father bob wrote on Feb 18, 2009 2:20 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Feb 18, 2009 1:49 PM:
"Were you around when he had his meltdown over on Coonseys sight when it looked like Obama was going to get the nomination, fb? He went off spewing some of the nastiest vile racial stuff you ever saw. When Coonsey objected, he threatened to sue her. I always thought he was intoxicated that night. Sometimes, especially when he gets all worked up, I thinks he's had too much sauce. Some call it bottle courage.""""

i watched in amazement........pretty pathetic, and sadly, pretty typical. he needs to join the trailer park card club, or something to keep him busy the 18 hours a days he spends on these threads. "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 18, 2009 3:34 PM:

" Billie if I initiate an attack on YOU you have a right to defend yourself, but I have never done that, have I. BUT an attack on your IDEA is different. This is a site to address IDEAS all ideas are fair game, all ideas are open for full discussion. BUT claiming the attack on an idea is against you is a lie. Attacking personalities, your favorite tactic as well as the tactic of others is simply a way to divert attention away from IDEAS you are uncomfortable with. The common tactic of the bully. "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 18, 2009 3:38 PM:

" You are right fatherbob, the moderator has been sleeping again. BDD had better hope my house never burns down, he could find himself in for some very unpleasant legal difficulties. "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 18, 2009 3:48 PM:

" Billie go back and read what I wrote, I DID NOT say YOU blamed a victim of rape or domestic violence. Again you get all worked up because you misread what is written. I said blaming a victim WHETHER.....is the common tactic of bullies. There is a BIG difference in what I wrote and what you read into what I wrote. "

Harry POtter wrote on Feb 18, 2009 4:10 PM:

" Hey father bob, did you seen where Cybildog, posting as the BlueDogDemocrat claimed that he has never ever heard of Coonseys site? Funny just a week or so ago he was trying to belittle her and her blog site on this very site.

If a person wanted to find it, it probably wouldn't be too hard to find those comments from him. I'm not going to bother because I really don't give a hoot how much the little maggot lies on here. I just like to point it out when he does.

Oh my, Cybildog gets caught once again....

I wonder if his momma told him it wasn't nice to tell stories? "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 18, 2009 4:22 PM:

" (FatHeadBobby - "funny how the maggot comes near meltdown when someone questions his words...and how he reacts to someone taking something out of context just a tad and distorting it.")

Gosh Bobby,

You could have just admitted that you couldn't prove my comment to Susan was a threat; and spared us all from your little rant, couldn't you've? "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 18, 2009 4:27 PM:

" Oh and Bobby,

Give us more details on my supposed "meltdown" on some site called "coonseys".

I'm fascinated by the depth of the collective delusional paranoia and insanity of you and Harry.

You two have got a serious case of Doh-Derangement-Syndrome.

I don't know what this mythical Doh did to you clowns, but I would love to shake his hand one day. Unbelievable.

ROFLMAO "

Harry POtter wrote on Feb 18, 2009 5:06 PM:

" Hey fb, for someone who's innocent, he sure is squealing awfully loud. You know what the say about that. lol...

I guess we should be grateful that he can't post his racist rantings on this site. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 18, 2009 5:10 PM:

" (Susan - "You are right fatherbob, the moderator has been sleeping again. BDD had better hope my house never burns down, he could find himself in for some very unpleasant legal difficulties.")

Bring it on Susan.

Feel free to explain to everyone just exactly how my comment was a threat.

Sorry deary, I'm not intimidated by your Fascist attempt to silence me.

In fact I'm ammused.

*sniff sniff*

My, now you're really burning up aren't you sweetheart.

ROFLMAO "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 18, 2009 5:19 PM:

" There you go folks.

Harry Potter and fatherbob are either two seperate nut-cases, or one individual nut-case posting under two names.

It really doesn't matter.

One or two; he, they, or it, are all completely nutz.

*coo coo* *coo coo*

Remember kids, Doh is everywhere.

LOL "

Stanley Stetson wrote on Feb 18, 2009 5:27 PM:

" * expect old melonhead to come flying in flapping his chicken wings and further convince harry how the two of them are like black-eyed peas in a pod * does that about sum up your friend boobie, harry libtard * "

Harry POtter wrote on Feb 18, 2009 5:29 PM:

" Hey guys, he's pretty tame on here. I still wish you could have seen what he put on Coonsey's site last year. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 18, 2009 5:45 PM:

" I'd love to see what the mythical Doh put on that site too Harry.

Oh my, he sounds so bad. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 18, 2009 7:19 PM:

" Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks? At least we got him to stop posting nasty comments about handicapped kids. Now we need to work on that multiple personality of his. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 18, 2009 7:33 PM:

" Look in the mirror, Cybil. lol.... "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 18, 2009 7:43 PM:

" I don't need to explain anything BDD your words say enough. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 18, 2009 8:14 PM:

" Oh I'm still making fun of the two handicapped kids in here; The Libtards Harry Potter and FatherBob. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 18, 2009 8:16 PM:

" (shumphreys - "I don't need to explain anything BDD your words say enough.")

That's right Susan, slither away when I call your bluff.

Yet again....... "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 18, 2009 9:10 PM:

" Boy Cybil, I set you up and you take the bait every time.

I even telegraph my intentions, and you get suckered every time.

You're just my little Cybil puppet, aren't you? "

Billie Brant wrote on Feb 18, 2009 9:13 PM:

" Susan, I wasn't born yesterday. I know full well you didn't single me out by my name in your little "blame the victim" statement, You're much too skillful for that. At least you think you are, The inference was there just the same. You darned near SHOUTED IT! These little tricks you use are very clever, but they don't always work. This one was as transparent as a piece of Saran Wrap.

I'm not in the habit of attacking personalities as a rule on here no matter what you think. I will admit that I have gone after you sometimes. I have called you Suzie, and other forms of your name as well as dear and sweetie . Yep Guilty as charged! This is usually after you have used your considerable writing skills to insult and yes attack others, not just their ideas. Yet you cry foul if someone fights back on a personal level.

You my dear do your share of it also. You just can not or refuse to see it! It's not always just the ideas you attack. When you use names such as "nut job", tell people they are ignorant in a snotty tone, call them liars and idiots in a round about way such as "Don't be an idiot", that qualifies as a personal attack to my way of thinking.

Your words Susan "Attacking personalities, your favorite tactic as well as the tactic of others is simply a way to divert attention away from IDEAS you are uncomfortable with. The common tactic of the bully. " See here again you don't actually come out and call me a bully but the inference is there. Slick!

It's also a clever technique the way you make your statements in the form of questions and for all practical purposes your questions are actually your answers and opinions. Whew! Makes my head go round and round like I'm on a merry-go-round! While submitting your questions/statements to folks they take on an accusatory tone. You're good. I gotta give you that!

For cryin out loud Susan, just admit you are mortal like the rest of us and are prone to stepping outside the box of civility once in awhile like us.

I'm convinced that no amount of explaining, cajoling, or reasoning will make you see it or change your mind. So--o-o-o, I'm going to drag out a piece of YOUR advice you gave me quite awhile back which is ..... "Billie there comes a time when someone has to be the bigger person and say, "I will fight no more forever". That doesn't mean that you have to rollover belly up."....My answer to your expert advice at that time was this and it's still relevant.... The words of Chief Joseph of the Nez Perce tribe of Native Americans ring true here, at least for now! As you suggested it doesn't mean I've gone belly up,not by a long shot. The "forever" part is just going to take a rest for now. Most of the comments here are getting to be redundant anyway. As my daughter who lives in the beautiful state of Oregon where Chief Joseph and his people once roamed, I'm going to use an expression that's common there now. I'm saying "Hooves up!" for now at least. This mare is going to the barn to rest up! LOL!... Besides this is getting boring.

1,2,3, Now tell me I can't come up with a good argument to use against your "ideas" like you usually do when folks get fed up with your stuff and decide to "give it a rest". You always have to win don't cha!

By the way, How about taking your own "I will fight no more forever" advice or is it just for us and not you! "

Rotty wrote on Feb 18, 2009 10:13 PM:

" Great post, Billie!

The day Susan ever "gets it", will be the day she actually "grows up", & that's likely to never happen.

Sensical Suzie Q Shemphreys, the Spurious String-yankin Sourpuss - a heroine hero in her own mind.

A true hypocrite indeed! "

Billie Brant wrote on Feb 18, 2009 10:29 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Feb 18, 2009 2:05 PM:

" Billie, the problem with our friend, is that it's perfectly OK with him for some one to slam Susan, but when I defend her he throws on of his little school girl hissy fits. "

Harry, I'm hope you realize I'm not concerned with you defending Susan if that's what you feel you need to do. Friends do defend one another. Shoot! Sometimes we even chastise each other. Susan is very fortunate to have you as a friend as am I. You can befriend us both and I respect that. Sometimes being a friend to two people who don't get along is like walking a tightrope. You don't want to lose either of them.

You and BDD obviously do not like each other one bit and probably never will. So, while I understand from your point of view you think he's throwing a hissy fit, from his point of view I believe he thinks he's needling you.

I'm just guessing here. It may not be the case at all. Just "supposin" as grandma used to say.

Later HP my good friend. Tomorrow I plan to be on Lincoln Avenue with other folks paying their respects to Lt. Southworth as he's being brought "home". I hope there's a huge turnout. God Bless our troops and their familis. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 18, 2009 11:14 PM:

" I don't have any ill will towards Harry, Billie. The truth is, he takes this nonsense a lot more serious than I ever do. Every single poster in here suffers from the same delusion; we think our voices are important enough to be heard.

Some of us just happen to be a little more delusional about that than others.

Harry happens to be uber-delusional. In fact, he's suffering from DOHmentia.

LOL "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Feb 19, 2009 8:15 AM:

" Every single poster in here suffers from the same delusion; we think our voices are important enough to be heard.
---------------------------

Boy, you got that right....especially when y'uns is from HICKtown USA..... "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 19, 2009 8:38 AM:

" It isn't a bluff BDD, I print out the comments on each letter and I file them away in case I ever want to "refer" to them again. "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 19, 2009 8:42 AM:

" Billie you WERE blaming the victim, you were blaming me, I used the examples of rape and domestic abuse victims to illustrate/make the point. Learn to read. Saying that your tactics are the tactics of a bully is not being subtle, it is a fact. There is a difference though you can't see it, between the tactic a person uses and the person. I don't think you are a bad person, I think you are misguided, hyper defensive,headed down a dead end path and barking up the wrong tree. I am not your enemy Billie, you are your enemy. "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 19, 2009 8:50 AM:

" From the beginning Billie I have held one basic premise, it doesn't matter what religion people follow or whether they follow any, all that matters are their day to day actions, how they treat their fellow man, ALL of them, especially those that are different. WHY do I keep pushing this? People can say anything, but their actions SHOW us everything. People can hide behind words BUT they can't hide their actions. Jesus, Buddha, Lao Tzu, the majority of the worlds great THINKERS all recognized that our actions are a reflection of our souls, our state of being, our health and peace of mind, and through our actions we will either find that which we are looking for (union with God, Nirvana, a peaceful world) or we will keep ourselves from reaching that which we seek. "

Teacher2 wrote on Feb 19, 2009 10:08 AM:

" I fear that I have opened a can of worms that perhaps would have been better served shut. For that, I again must say I'm sorry (I've been married nearly 10 years, I'm used to saying it). However, I implore that we leave the poor people moderating these items out of our threats of a lawsuit. They are just trying to do their job, and for that I am thankful. It can not be easy to ensure one's freedom of speech and know when someone is crossing the line, especially with this group :) I would also add some more of my opinions regarding the issue at hand, but I am thinking that discussion may be over. I'm not really sure what the debate is about anymore.

BTW...Love Led Zepplin "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 19, 2009 10:49 AM:

" (shumphreys - "It isn't a bluff BDD, I print out the comments on each letter and I file them away in case I ever want to "refer" to them again.")

Bring it on any time sweetheart. "

Billie Brant wrote on Feb 19, 2009 12:01 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Feb 19, 2009 8:42 AM:

" Billie you WERE blaming the victim, you were blaming me, I used the examples of rape and domestic abuse victims to illustrate/make the point.

You the victim Susan? That has to be the most ridiulous statement of the year! But go ahead and revel in it. You play the part so well.

There are much more important issues we have to deal with on a daily basis than feeding your obsessive need and ego to dominate these threads with your superior knowledge of everything.

I prefer to "hang around" with folks who know their limitations, foibles, and shortcomings Folks who aren't afraid to admit mistakes. Folks who aren't perfect and will admit it. While admitting these things can be difficult, most of us find a way. "I'm sorry" often are the hardest words to say. It goes against our natures to readily admit we've been wrong. Those words have stuck in my craw more times than I want to admit to, but I've said them. Not always mind you, but when in my heart I know they need to said I do. I have this "little voice" that speaks to me and I can't hide from it. Sometimes it takes me awile to come around because I can be on the stubborn side. :-) However, if I'm honest with myself and swallow that large dose of pride I have been blessed or cursed with( depending on the situation) I can usually get those difficult words out. Sometimes I'm "shamed" into saying them.

I am not your enemy Billie, you are your enemy. " you say. FINALLY something we can agree on. Most of us are our OWN worst enemies. We expect more of ourselves than anyone else does and when we fail we beat ourselves up OR refuse to see we've failed at all. We blame others instead of the "one"( overselves) we should. Guilty as charged on that accout too!

Remember that dead end path you spoke of is not the end of the path at all. The path travels in two directions. All one has to do is turn around and go the other way. I have turned around on that path more times than I can count and from where I see myself today, that path is in the sunshine most of the time. I don't see myself going into the dark part of it ever again. I have so much to be thankful, grateful and happy for to head down that road.

So do your worst Susan. In the grand scheme of things, it won't matter. I'm sure not going to lose any sleep over it. "

father bob wrote on Feb 19, 2009 12:07 PM:

" delusional christians.....how funny and entertaining!

they've made the same argument for the past 36 years.

how about a little gay bashing? you christians are always good for some hate-filled rhetoric. "

father bob wrote on Feb 19, 2009 12:16 PM:

" Stanley Stetson wrote on Feb 18, 2009 5:27 PM:
" * expect old melonhead to come flying in flapping his chicken wings and further convince harry how the two of them are like black-eyed peas in a pod *""""

how intellectual..... "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 19, 2009 1:13 PM:

" Teacher2 you really over react. No one is threatening a lawsuit. I just protect myself. You are also not responsible for the tone of this "conversation" BDD has crossed the line many times and will continue to do so. He knows no limits. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Feb 19, 2009 1:51 PM:

" how about a little gay bashing? you christians are always good for some hate-filled rhetoric. "
-------------------

how intellectual..... "

father bob wrote on Feb 19, 2009 2:08 PM:

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Feb 19, 2009 1:51 PM:
" how about a little gay bashing? you christians are always good for some hate-filled rhetoric. "
-------------------

how intellectual..... """""

glad i could spell the word out for you to copy. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 19, 2009 2:15 PM:

" By KEVIN McGILL
Google sponsored links
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You have anger? - Sedona Method can help you. Harvard Studied. 100% Guaranteed.
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NEW ORLEANS (AP) - The alleged leader of a Ku Klux Klan group was indicted on a second-degree murder charge Wednesday in the shooting death of an Oklahoma woman who police said was killed during an initiation in south Louisiana.

Is there no end to the level the right wingers in this country will stoop? "

father bob wrote on Feb 19, 2009 2:20 PM:

" "Lutherans weigh making gay clergy a local decision"

well, at least some of them get it halfway right. i knew there were some good lutherans out there somewhere. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 19, 2009 3:02 PM:

" Hey fb, wasn't it our friend Neo who was accusing me of stealing his Depends line last night?

As Neo would say: HYPOCRITE! "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 19, 2009 3:09 PM:

" (fatherbob - "how about a little gay bashing? you christians are always good for some hate-filled rhetoric.")

Gee Bobby-socks,

are you feeling a little susceptible today? "

Rotty wrote on Feb 19, 2009 3:11 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Feb 19, 2009 8:38 AM:

"It isn't a bluff BDD, I print out the comments on each letter and I file them away in case I ever want to "refer" to them again."

.......

OH NO - The female version of Tom Andres!

Sorry, Tom, I was forced.
LOL!

Huh, I thought this article was about "Alternatives exist to having abortions"?

Guess Soapbox Susie doesn't want to be back in my good graces anytime soon.
LOL!

And to think, I thought Shemphreys was a voice for those with no voice.

Now, what was it that BDD was asking about the "unborn" again?

You know Soapbox Sue, those with no voices.

Are you sure your name really isn't Gloria, Sudsy Sue?

Now, Pro-Life or Pro-Choice, let's return to the debate. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 19, 2009 3:13 PM:

" FB, you should have know that bringing up this topic would bring Cybil running out of the closet, so to speak, to add his 2 cents. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 19, 2009 3:16 PM:

" UH-OH! Liberal Hypocrisy Alert!

WashingtonPost: Bill Moyers tried investigating LBJ aides for homosexuality

"Bill Moyers, a White House aide now best known as a liberal television commentator, is described in the records as seeking information on the sexual preferences of White House staff members. Moyers said by e-mail yesterday that his memory is unclear after so many years but that he may have been simply looking for details of allegations first brought to the president by Hoover....

Seven days later, DeLoach pressed Johnson again and he relented. In the same conversation, a memo shows, they discussed a request from Moyers, then a special assistant to Johnson, that the FBI investigate two other administration figures who were "suspected as having homosexual tendencies."

++++++++

When Moyers sounds off on alleged Republican bigotry, perhaps this will serve as a useful reminder that Moyers can hardly cast the first stone. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 19, 2009 3:40 PM:

" Apparently Gay-Activist have no problem stalking and harassing those who support California's prop 8

From the NewYorkTimes (Jan 18 2009) -

"....identifying the addresses of donors who supported Proposition 8, which outlawed same-sex marriage in California.

It is exactly those arrows that concern supporters of the measure, who say they have been regularly harassed since the election with threatening e-mail messages and sometimes boycotts of their businesses.

"Some gay activists have organized Web sites to actively encourage people to go after supporters of Proposition 8," said Frank Schubert, the campaign manager for Protect Marriage, the leading group behind the proposition. "And giving these people a map to your home or office leaves supporters of Proposition 8 feeling especially vulnerable. Really, it is chilling."

+++++++

Oh those poor innocent gay-activist hypocrite Nazi's............. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 19, 2009 3:56 PM:

" (Rotty - "And to think, I thought Shemphreys was a voice for those with no voice.")

Rotty, I think Susan's definition of "those with no voice" are the militant sensible-shoe wearing lesbians.

That's what Susan calls "enlightened". "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Feb 19, 2009 4:01 PM:

" " Hey fb, wasn't it our friend Neo who was accusing me of stealing his Depends line last night?

As Neo would say: HYPOCRITE! "
--------------------------------

Obviously you don't know the difference between satire and plagiarism...... "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 19, 2009 4:01 PM:

" What did I tell you? "

father bob wrote on Feb 19, 2009 4:30 PM:

" let him blather and foam at the mouth..it's predictable and humorous. "

father bob wrote on Feb 19, 2009 4:42 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Feb 19, 2009 3:13 PM:
" FB, you should have know that bringing up this topic would bring Cybil running out of the closet, so to speak, to add his 2 cents. """""

yeah....here he is foaming and ranting:

http://tinyurl.com/yuayla "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 19, 2009 4:47 PM:

" Billie just what is "my worst"? What is it that you object to? Do you object to my speaking out against intolerance, against bullies, against hate? Do you object to my exposing hypocrisy and hate? Do you object to my calling for compassion, for others, for those in need, whether they are homosexuals, women with unwanted pregnancies, people of other religious beliefs? OR do you object to my calling for an end to the use and misuse of the Bible and Christianity to promote fear and hate and justify the persecution of those that are different? If you do than you are objecting to what Jesus teaches, and to the teachings of Buddha and Lao Tzu and all those other great thinkers. "

father bob wrote on Feb 19, 2009 4:48 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Feb 19, 2009 4:01 PM:
" What did I tell you? """"

STAND BACK HP!.....he's gonna be spinning like a top! you don't want to get splattered by foaming saliva! "

shumphreys wrote on Feb 19, 2009 4:50 PM:

" Gosh Bill Moyers grew up. Why don't you try it BDD. That is afterall what life is all about. "

father bob wrote on Feb 19, 2009 4:58 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Feb 19, 2009 4:50 PM:
" Gosh Bill Moyers grew up. Why don't you try it BDD. That is afterall what life is all about. """""

susan....it's a small world when you're alone and your life is centered around a forum 18 hours a day. reality doesn't exist.... he needs help, medication and anger management. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 19, 2009 5:57 PM:

" FatherBob nails Harry Potter:

"susan....it's a small world when you're alone and your life is centered around a forum 18 hours a day. reality doesn't exist.... he needs help, medication and anger management."

Yep. Pretty much describes Harry...... "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 19, 2009 6:22 PM:

" STAND BACK HP!.....he's gonna be spinning like a top! you don't want to get splattered by foaming saliva! "

Yeah, fb. Something along the lines of the long whiny diatribe (actually 2 back to back) he came up with the other night. He sure seems to overreact to the Cybil changes too. He seems to protest a bit too much over that. Gee I wonder why? lol!

TQ sure hit the nail on the head with that name for him.

Think were in line for some of that coo coo ca choo tin foil hat Libtard jumping up and down type nonsense tonight? I'm sure glad that his slobbering foaming saliva doesn't come through the screen too.

Anyway, let's sit back and enjoy tonight's show, my friend. Heck he might even bring Stanley out to "join" both his Neo and BBD personae. "

Rotty wrote on Feb 19, 2009 6:27 PM:

" BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 19, 2009 3:56 PM:

"Rotty, I think Susan's definition of "those with no voice" are the militant sensible-shoe wearing lesbians.

That's what Susan calls "enlightened"."

.......

This is very true, BDD.
LOL! "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 19, 2009 8:36 PM:

" Obviously you don't know the difference between satire and plagiarism...... "

And obviously you're full of it, CybilCon. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 19, 2009 8:43 PM:

" http://tinyurl.com/yuayla "

So that's what Cybil looks like? Actually he looks better than I thought he would. It's a shame that your link didn't show the humpback or the demonstrate the smell factor, fb. Just exactly which one of his "characters" did that illustration represent? Perhaps it was a composite of all his "personalities". "

Rotty wrote on Feb 19, 2009 9:03 PM:

" Going along with FB's URL....

Have a go at this Maze Game, gang.
It's very interesting.
LOL!
Enjoy!

http://tinyurl.com/2mneoj "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 19, 2009 9:12 PM:

" Whew.

Harry Half-Baked is wired tonight.

I wonder if they'll let him blog after "lights-out" at the laughing-academy?

We shall see...... "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 19, 2009 10:42 PM:

" BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 19, 2009 9:12 PM:

" Whew.

Harry Half-Baked is wired tonight.

I wonder if they'll let him blog after "lights-out" at the laughing-academy?

We shall see...... " "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Feb 19, 2009 10:57 PM:

" Yep.

The Rubber-Room Clinic is letting Harry blog after lights-out apparently. "

caringmom wrote on Feb 19, 2009 11:21 PM:

" NeoCon Academician,
"If you are a Chrsitian, as you say you are, caringmom, you need to brush up on your scripture."

I don't believe I ever said I was a Christian, did I? No Sherry Hall did.

Maybe, just maybe, I was making a statement to Sherry Hall which had nothing to do with my personal views and even less to do with yours. "

injustice85 wrote on Feb 25, 2009 7:07 PM:

" Wow Sherry, ignorant christian you are, I didn't realize you were the prognasticator of the christian religion "

injustice85 wrote on Feb 25, 2009 7:10 PM:

" If I buy everyone on here a pet, would it get some of you to quit blogging? "