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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

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Friday, December 5, 2008 9:46 PM CST
COLUMN: Edgar: Be patient with Obama

By Jan Dennis, University of Illinois News Bureau, Business & Law Editor

How difficult is the learning curve for a first-time chief executive, especially one stepping into such turmoil?

I don’t think anyone is ever prepared, really, to be chief executive, whether it be governor or president. I’d been secretary of state and I’d been in the legislature, so I had a pretty good understanding of state government, but I’ve got to tell you I didn’t have a clue. Until you’re actually behind the desk where the buck stops, as Harry Truman said, I don’t think you truly are prepared. Anyone who thinks they are is just kidding themselves because you just cannot anticipate the crises and pressures you’re going to face.

No matter how good your resume is, there has to be a lot of growing as chief executive. And I think that’s the key. Can a President Obama grow? My sense is he can. You watch him over the last 10 years and it seems to me that he’s grown. I look back to the most successful president in the history, Abraham Lincoln, who had probably a weaker resume than Barack Obama and he was able to do remarkable things as president.

What were the biggest surprises for you after you became governor?

The intensity, and the fact that you don’t have the luxury of thinking about things for a few weeks or even a few days sometimes. Plus, if you mess up, there’s nobody behind you to catch it. As president, that’s pretty scary because if you miscalculate you could see the economy completely collapse or you could see tens of thousands of people killed by a terrorist attack. So the stakes are extremely high.

How important is setting a tone for the new administration?

It’s very important, and I think Sen. Obama started setting the tone on election night. People don’t always have their minds made up about a candidate even if they vote for them. They have to wait and see them in office, but it doesn’t take long before they form judgments. And once those judgments are formed it’s very difficult to change them.

Do you think the history surrounding Obama’s election has heightened expectations, and could that ultimately pose a problem for his administration? Could it shorten the honeymoon Americans will give him?

I think his honeymoon might be shorter just because of the crisis he faces. There’s also a segment of the population out there – minorities in particular – who are very excited about this election and probably have higher expectations than he can deliver on. A lot of people think he is going to solve their particular problem, and I’m not sure how many problems he’s going to be able to solve because he’s got to prioritize and the big priority is the economy. How he handles that, how he explains to the American people – particularly his strongest supporters – why he can’t do everything as soon as they want him to do it is going to be a key to his success. My sense is he’ll probably handle that well. He’s by far the best orator of any president I’ve known, and one of the best communicators.

What advice do you have for citizens? Should we be patient, demanding or somewhere in between?

I think they need to be as patient as they can be. Becoming president is a daunting task any time, and this time ranks up there with the most daunting in history. To me, Lincoln had the biggest challenge. FDR had a very challenging time, and so did President Ford, who came in after Watergate. This ranks right behind those, I think. So people need to realize that this president is going into a very difficult situation and they can’t expect meaningful results quickly. I’m sure people will be more impatient than they should be, but at the same time the president-elect needs to know that and realize he’s got to reassure them.

Based on your experience as governor, what advice would you offer the president elect?

That the people around him are crucial and that it’s important to reach out. Try to get as many points of view as possible and make it obvious this is not just a Democrat undertaking, this is an American undertaking. Those different points of view are very important. You need to have folks who are sensitive to a range of issues and get their opinions before you make decisions.

He also needs to realize there are going to be tough days. He’s done the easy part, getting elected. Now he has to govern in a very difficult time. And in some ways it’s more difficult because he’s got such overwhelming numbers of his party in Congress. There’s going to be a lot of pressure to just move quickly to the left and maybe not worry about people in the center or people on the right. But as president he’s got to govern from the center and bring both sides of the spectrum with him. There’s going to be pressure and temptation just to kind of take those Democrats in Congress and run. He needs to resist that and make sure that he brings as much of the nation along with him as he can, not just his own party.

Do you feel a stake in Obama’s presidency, since you resisted prodding and opted not to run for the Senate seat he later won?

I don’t feel responsible, even though some Republicans are blaming me (laughing).

No, I feel some pride in the fact that he’s from Illinois. And also I have to say that the fact that he’s the first man of color to be elected president is very significant. It’s very appropriate in the same year that we celebrate the 200th anniversary of the birth of Abraham Lincoln.

I think he could be a great president. He has that potential. It’s not a guarantee he will be, but I think he has the tools to do an excellent job. He’s got a tough hand dealt him with this economy. And come January, it’s his economy, it’s not President Bush’s economy. People do very quickly switch those responsibilities over to the new administration.

I hope he succeeds. We all have a lot at stake.

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The Question wrote on Dec 5, 2008 6:06 AM:

" Be PATIENT with him? Obama is not even the president yet. I know everyone wants to forget about the ape that called all this, especially the Republicans, but it's still in there stinking up the Oval Office. "

Early Bird wrote on Dec 5, 2008 6:40 AM:

" I think he could be a great president. He has that potential.

What? Doesn't Edgar know that he's a closet Muslim who plans to take away peoples guns, subject us to the whims of the UN raise the taxes of every American and....yada yada yada. "

Becky wrote on Dec 5, 2008 9:01 AM:

" And eb, don't forget his terrorist pals, his terrorist fist bumps and his ties to the Chicago mob. ;) "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Dec 5, 2008 9:35 AM:

" Yep. Obama isn't even in office yet, but still, he's been very busy.

He's already backtracked on several promises.

For instance:

- He won't hit Big Oil with a windfall profit tax

- He kinda sorta won't get the troops out of Iraq in kinda sorta 16 months (give or take a year or three).

- He has essentially rehired The Clinton Administration Part Deux.
(Didn't he criticize several of Clintons policies during the primaries?)

Oh and:

- He made Hillary secretary of state AFTER he belittled her foreign policy cred during the primaries.

Yeah. I think he's going to be great!
In fact, I'm absolutely giddy about the next four years!

Pass the popcorn please........ "

sapient wrote on Dec 5, 2008 11:27 AM:

" EB: You finally see the light. LOL "

The Question wrote on Dec 5, 2008 3:57 PM:

" Bush publicly acknowledged for the first time Friday that the U.S. economy is in a recession and worried aloud that Detroit's Big Three automakers may not all survive their mounting troubles.
Four days after the long-suspected existence of a recession was made official, Bush used the word himself.
Whatever would we do if we didn't have a corrupt Republican moron to tell us the obvious? "

Mr. Right wrote on Dec 5, 2008 4:34 PM:

" Personally, I think we should abolish the Office of the President-Elect. Oh...wait...we didn't CREATE it.

And to think there are actually some news media that are taking that whole thing SERIOUSLY.

THIS is what we have to look forward to. It's already begun! "

ed miller wrote on Dec 5, 2008 7:47 PM:

" TQ,

They are talking about patience AFTER he gets in office. In other words, don't expect results overnight. Does that make it better? And what was it that the ape called? "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Dec 6, 2008 7:31 AM:

" Be patient with him? Why? He's not even president yet! But boy he sure is playing up the part of "the messiah" on TV isn't he with his emblem of the "Office of the President-Elect".

Maybe we should just be patient with Blagojevich though, you know with is 4% approval rating and all. ROFLMAO!

If GWB is an ape, what's Blago and the rest of the creeps from the corrupt "Chicago machine"?

What's your answer to that? Yeah I know...ah, well, ah-ah, well um, ah...

Hypocrites........................... "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Dec 6, 2008 2:55 PM:

" Obamas New Old Deal

Barack Obama announced the creation of a massive new public-works program aimed at updating the nations infrastructure while creating millions of jobs. This comes as no surprise, as Obama and Joe Biden talked constantly about resurrecting the least-successful elements of FDRs New Deal as an answer to the current economic crisis. The new administration wont just contain itself to roads, either:

"President-elect Barack Obama added sweep and meat to his economic agenda on Saturday, pledging the largest new investment in roads and bridges since President Dwight D. Eisenhower built the Interstate system in the late 1950s, and tying his key initiatives education, energy, health care back to jobs in a package that has the makings of a smaller and modern version of FDRs New Deal marriage of job creation with infrastructure upgrades.

The president-elect also said for the first time that he will launch the most sweeping effort to modernize and upgrade school buildings that this country has ever seen.

We will repair broken schools, make them energy-efficient, and put new computers in our classrooms, he said in the address.

The president-elect is bringing new elements of his domestic agenda into his economic recovery plan, committing to a path toward giving every American access to an electronic medical record as part of an economic recovery plan"

None of this comes as a great shock, though. While Obama has given some indications that he doesnt intend a massive shift to the Left on defense and foreign policy, his economic plans have always favored statism, class warfare, and a striking ignorance of history and reality. Recreating the WPA and proposing even more massive spending programs in the face of our precarious financial condition and debt load finds its equivalent only perhaps in the apocryphal fiddling of Nero while Rome burned.

Ed Morrissey "

Cognitus wrote on Dec 6, 2008 4:14 PM:

" If you want to read an enjoyable column,
try Klein in the current TIME.
Refers to GWB as The Deadliest Duck.
Obama said, "We have only one president" but Klein adds, "By mid-November it became obvious that one president was no longer enough (at least the one we had)." "At the end of a presidency of stupefying ineptitude, he has become the lamest of ducks."
Klein remarks on the picture of Bush standing alone after the photo op of the Asia Pacific Economic conference, none of those leaving making eye contact with him. He has "that forlorn what-the-hell happened expression on his face, the one that has marked his presidency at difficult times."
Finally, "He is less than President now, and that is appropriate. He was never very much of one."

Those who have criticized Obama for moving to fill his cabinet to be ready when the time comes do not seem to realize that the US has NOT HAD A PRESIDENT since the election disclosed how little power he has.

Remember after the 2004 election when he bragged about how much clout he had and how he was going to use it ... and see how quickly the balloon deflated. The arrogant axx will be forgotten by Valentine's day. "

Harry Potter wrote on Dec 6, 2008 4:15 PM:

" Our friends Neo and Doh think all the problems of this country are the fault of the Democratic party. Perhaps we should put the Republicans in charge of the federal government...wait a minute they're in charge now, and have been for 8 years. How's that workin' out for us (a little tribute to Salad head Palin), guys?

Oh, I forgot, it's all Barney Franks fault. LOL! "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Dec 6, 2008 11:09 PM:

" (Oh, I forgot, it's all Bawney Fwanks fault.)

No more so than it's all Bush's fault Harry.

In fact, Bawney Fwank had help recking the economy. There was also Democrats Chris Dodd, Maxine Waters, Jamie Goerelick, Rohm Emmanual, and CEO's Franklin Raines and Jim Johnson (all of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac fame) just to name a few. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Dec 6, 2008 11:50 PM:

" Yeah Harry...come to think of it, democrats actually are the reason for the country's problems! The republicans of late haven't been much of a help though either.

I could go into the Clinton years but I'll just go into a time still fresh in people's minds, 9/11. After 9/11 Bush did what he had to do to keep the economy afloat, cut taxes.

Then, when the repubs took control of congress they acted like HS girls with dad's credit card at Macy's (democrats are way better at this), spending way beyond what they should have.

And now, the problem is, as one financial source I read says, the tax cuts and overspending from then has caused over-exuberance in the economy that's resulted in a "stealth economy" over the past few years. Money's been "cheap" and not in balance with the goods and services produced from our economy.

So here's the rub, as 2/3's of our GDP is based upon consumer spending, all we have done the past few years as a nation/economy, has been to either pass money back and forth amongst ourselves, or send it over to China for cheap consumer goods or to the Arabs for oil. We've not created additional wealth, we've just p*ssed everything away for big homes and new cars (that people now can't pay for).

And the grand result is what we're seeing now with the mortgage crisis and the current "downward correction" in our economy. Just look at the DOW's averages. They're already back to near early '90's averages!

So as to be patient with Obama, especially concerning our economy, I find that to be comical.

But that's okay. I don't think Paulson, congress, or "the messiah" has the slightest clue as to how to fix our economy. Along with the bailouts, all they are gonna do, essentially, is to pump more and more money from the Fed into the economy. The result, as for the near future, will be to have repressive inflation.

So, as I have been saying all along, we're heading right back to the indignant Carter years! "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Dec 6, 2008 11:51 PM:

" By the way, Barney Franks a simpleton, Harry. "

medic57 wrote on Dec 7, 2008 12:02 AM:

" What? Doesn't Edgar know that he's a closet Muslim who plans to take away peoples guns.

I would like to see the proof that he is a Muslim, not that it really makes any difference, (remember, people hated Kennedy too because he was Catholic) and when has he ever said he was going to take away any guns, except possibly the ones that people don't need to own anyway. "

.Doh wrote on Dec 7, 2008 6:41 AM:

" The messiah breaks more promises than Carter has liver pills. The saga continues. "

The Question wrote on Dec 7, 2008 11:02 AM:

" Fox News and the fascist echo chamber will spend the next four years looking for some trumped-up excuse to beat President Obama over the head with. And they will find it, because they are not constrained by mere reality. And then they will start screaming for his impeachment, loud and long and unrelentingly, with the corporate media chiming right in like a corrupt Vienna Boys' Choir..
And then we will see where Nancy Pelosi's stupid pledge not to impeach Bush and Cheney has gotten us in terms of "unity" and "ending division" and the other claptrap Democrats say when they're too cowardly to enforce the Constitution. "

Harry Potter wrote on Dec 7, 2008 3:19 PM:

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Dec 6, 2008 11:51 PM:

" By the way, Barney Franks a simpleton, Harry.

Oh really, Neo? Simpleton infers a lack of intelligence. I expected that sort of a comment form our friend Doh, but I didn't think you would say someone was a simpleton just because you don't agree with their politics.

I have to say that you disappointed me me with that comment.

Look at it this way, I disagree with Newt Gingrich on most issues, but I certainly wouldn't refer to him as a simpleton. Now George Bush on the other hand..... "

Harry Potter wrote on Dec 7, 2008 4:07 PM:

" Here's a prediction: Neo and Doh will find something to whine about Michelle Obama's inaugural gowns. And when the Obama kids get their new dog, Doh will carp about that too. LOL! "

Harry Potter wrote on Dec 7, 2008 5:30 PM:

" But that's okay. I don't think Paulson, congress, or "the messiah" has the slightest clue as to how to fix our economy.

But of course you do, right Neo? You need to start sending your brilliant ideas to Washington, instead of wasting your time with all of us common folk.

It's your patriotic duty.

Maybe you and Doh could carpool out there.

Heck, I'll even chip in 5 bucks for gas. "

Harry Potter wrote on Dec 7, 2008 5:59 PM:

" WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Justice Department on Monday plans to unveil charges against five former Blackwater Worldwide security guards stemming from a 2007 shooting which killed 17 Iraqis in Baghdad, according to several sources with knowledge of the investigation.

----------------

It's about time. And it appears Cheney's behind the scenes efforts to cover this up might have failed.

Perhaps Bush is upset with Cheney for pushing him into the Iraq fiasco and is merely getting even on the way out. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Dec 7, 2008 6:25 PM:

" Golly gee, Question.

You mean your honest upstanding Liberal Democrats won't try to impeach the evil diabolical President Bush? What, with all those mountains of overwhelming evidence that prove he (how did you say it?)....oh yes, "tricked up" all that "tricky" intel on all those "tricky" WMD that Saddam all of a sudden, didn't have?

And your righteous trustworthy Democrats (who are the protectors of the common man) aren't going to repeal that fascist illegal terrorist surveillance program?

Oh that's right, your President Obama actually voted FOR those evil unconstitutional wire taps, didn't he! LOL!

Don't worry, Question....maybe Barry Hussein will still shut down that nasty ole Gitmo prison and free all those poor innocent Muslim victims of religious discrimination. Then again...maybe he won't. LOL!

Oh well there's always the windfall tax on all those mean and nasty, evil Bush/Cheney Big Oil Companies......oh, wait.... Barry's not going to do that either. ROFLMAO!

Good times. Good times. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Dec 7, 2008 7:10 PM:

" Obama vows tough diplomacy with Iran to disarm the Islamic republic's nuclear drive.

"Carrots would include economic incentives to the cash-strapped oil producer and greater access to the international trading system, he said.

Sticks comprised enlisting Iran's trading partners such as China, India and Russia "to agree that in order for us to change Iran's behavior, we may have to tighten up those (UN) sanctions."

Oh no! Not sanctions! That will really make Ahmadinejad shake in his little boots! And of course we can really trust China (ha ha ha) India (heh heh heh) and RUSSIA (Bwahahaaa) to go along with this.

Does the phrase "Oil For Food Scam" ring a bell for anyone?

Oh and hey. I thought Obama and all you Liberal sheeple had been saying that Iran was no threat at all? Remember that? Didn't Obama say that Iran was....just a small country that didn't pose a serious threat?

So when did that, all of a sudden change? "

The Question wrote on Dec 8, 2008 8:04 AM:

" Bush is still the president -- by far the worst president in living memory. Educated by the pain Bush's failures and corruption will yet inflict on them, future generations will spit at the very mention of the name "Bush." "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Dec 8, 2008 9:08 AM:

" What's the difference thus far between Bush and Obama, my dear Question? "

father bob wrote on Dec 8, 2008 12:39 PM:

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Dec 6, 2008 7:31 AM:
" Be patient with him? Why? He's not even president yet! But boy he sure is playing up the part of "the messiah" on TV isn't he with his emblem of the "Office of the President-Elect".""""

at least someone has to act presidential. bush certainly has left the building in the middle of crisis. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Dec 8, 2008 2:19 PM:

" "Bush is still the president -- by far the worst president in living memory."

Evidently, The Question doesn't remember the double digit inflation, double digit unemployment, and double digit interest rates (The prime rate hit 21.5% in 1980, the highest rate in U.S. history under any President) of the Jimma Carter years?

And for Jimma Carter to have called GWB the worst president in history is a hoot!

Oh, oh, oh.... and let's not forget the "stagflation", "malaise" (Jimma's own words), massive increases to the payroll tax for Social Security, fuel shortage/crisis, "I have lusted in my heart for women"(Jimma's own embarrassing words), his impotent response to Iran taking American's hostages ending in further American embarrassment with helicopter's blowing up and soldiers dying in the Iranian desert, and his impotent response to the Soviet's invading Afghanistan. Both of these latter cases helping to bring the US us where it is today in the Middle East.

Ah, yeah...Bush is the worst President, Carter was a saint...and The Question is the Virgin Mary incarnate. "

father bob wrote on Dec 8, 2008 3:16 PM:

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Dec 8, 2008 2:19 PM:
"Ah, yeah...Bush is the worst President, Carter was a saint...and The Question is the Virgin Mary incarnate. """"

never thought i'd agree with you on anything Neo...but i do agree on this one. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Dec 8, 2008 3:27 PM:

" Harry Potter...

Barney's a simpleton. He sits on the committee that could have fixed/averted the problem but he didn't....he's at best a simpleton....and at worst an amoral politician that's killed the livelihood of 100,000's of 1000's of Americans at this point.

As for Michelle Obama's inaugural gowns, it's not my fault she has no taste or style....

As for "You need to start sending your brilliant ideas to Washington". ...Nay they won't listen, never do. But in the private sector folks go chapter 11, reorganize, cut there debt to earning ratio, and then come back stronger. Congress won't let that happen though, it's good economics but bad politics.

Best thing they could do is cut the UAW from the company payroll's and then let the UAW organize themselves as a for-profit assembly specialists company servicing the big three as their primary customers. The car companies would then re-hire the UAW company as a contract work company and both sides, as for-profits would win. Instead of just the company driving down costs the UAW would have to worry about driving down costs too. Been there done that. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Dec 8, 2008 8:05 PM:

" Hey Fb...

You wrote...."never thought i'd agree with you on anything Neo...but i do agree on this one. "

Quite pulling the racism "gotchas".

I don't think racism is funny at all, ever. "

Rotty wrote on Dec 9, 2008 12:24 AM:

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Dec 8, 2008 2:19 PM:

"Ah, yeah...Bush is the worst President, Carter was a saint...and The Question is the Virgin Mary incarnate."

.......

father bob wrote on Dec 8, 2008 3:16 PM:

"never thought i'd agree with you on anything Neo...but i do agree on this one."

.......

NeoCon Academician wrote on Dec 8, 2008 8:05 PM:

"Quite pulling the racism "gotchas"."

.......

(Not trying to pull your chain, but, it's "quit" pulling....)

Hell, I don't agree with the lefties a majority of the time, but I was waiting to see who would make the first "agree statement", after your post, Neo.
It just so happened to be FB.
LOL!
It goes back-n-forth like that all the time, around here, Neo, you ought to know that by now.
Relax & enjoy a laugh or two, every once in awhile, maybe even at someone else's expense, too.
LOL!

Keep up the good work, gang! "

medic57 wrote on Dec 9, 2008 7:55 AM:

" Recreating the WPA and proposing even more massive spending programs in the face of our precarious financial condition and debt load finds its equivalent only perhaps in the apocryphal fiddling of Nero while Rome burned.

I see everyone is aaying that Obama won't have the money to do all of these things, The US is broke. Not nearly as broke as it was in 1929 and they did it then. "

Harry Potter wrote on Dec 9, 2008 8:32 AM:

" You have to wonder if Carter had violated the constitution by bypassing congress to sell arms to another country as the shyster Reagan did, would Neo be willing to judge him better?

Carters biggest mistake was leaving too many Nixon people is important policy and decision making positions.

And of course none of Carter's problems were the result of Nixon's policies. LOL!

For the first several years of his reign, the always scheming Reagan got away with blaming everything bad on Carter, while taking credit for any good news.

Poor old Carter never got that luxury.

And just for the record, I believe the crooked Reagan still holds the record for the most crooked aides leaving under a cloud of suspicion.

But even though the great huckster broke all modern day spending records, his conservative label have endeared him to all right wingers to this day. "

father bob wrote on Dec 9, 2008 8:44 AM:

" ever wonder why the GOP and crime are synonymous? "

father bob wrote on Dec 9, 2008 9:02 AM:

" A GREAT DAY!! Baggo arrested!!! "

Harry Potter wrote on Dec 9, 2008 9:25 AM:

" ..........simpleton....and at worst an amoral politician that's killed the livelihood of 100,000's of 1000's of Americans at this point.

-------------

Sort of like the amoral Bush killing thousands of young Americans, huh?

By the way, I happen to agree that Michelle wears some strange outfits, but my point was that you will probably feel a need to talk about it, as you always do. LOL! "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Dec 9, 2008 11:58 AM:

" (Sort of like the amoral Bush killing thousands of young Americans, huh?)

Bush never killed thousands of young Americans, simpleton.

However, thousands of young Americans died after your Democrats in Congress voted to go to war............simpleton. "

sapient wrote on Dec 9, 2008 12:30 PM:

" " ever wonder why the GOP and crime are synonymous? "

Evidently you don't have your TV on this morning. When Gov. Blago goes to the slammer for this one three of the four Illinois governors who got sent up in the past 30 years are democrats. "

sapient wrote on Dec 9, 2008 12:32 PM:

" Sort of like the amoral Bush killing thousands of young Americans, huh?

More young Americans in the military died during the Clinton years than the Bush years. "

Harry Potter wrote on Dec 9, 2008 3:16 PM:

" You're entitled to your opinion sappy, but you can't just make up things. Silly me, of course you can, you do it all the time. I sometimes think lying is a family value to most of you Republicans. LOL!

Allow me to enlighten you with the numbers of military deaths starting with the old Dutchster himself:

Reagan 17201 (eight years)

Bush Sr 6223 (four years)

Clinton 7500 (eight years)

Bush Jr 8792 (six years)

And shrub has two more years to add to his total!

No doubt you noticed that when you divide the deaths for each president by the years served, Clinton actually had the lowest numbers. "

father bob wrote on Dec 9, 2008 3:22 PM:

" The born conspiracy

Sanity was nowhere to be found at the press conference held by the alarmists who believe Obama is not a U.S. citizen.

Eddie....did i see you mentioned? LMAO!

http://tinyurl.com/5ww2go "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Dec 9, 2008 4:26 PM:

" I got a number for you Harry.

26

That's the number of Democrat Senators who sent all those young Americans to war. "

father bob wrote on Dec 9, 2008 4:31 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Dec 9, 2008 3:16 PM:
"
Bush Jr 8792 (six years)

And shrub has two more years to add to his total!

No doubt you noticed that when you divide the deaths for each president by the years served, Clinton actually had the lowest numbers. """"

you forgot the 600,000+ innocent iraqi civilians slaughtered, who posed no threat to the US. "mission accomplished" "

father bob wrote on Dec 9, 2008 5:03 PM:

" BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Dec 9, 2008 4:26 PM:
" I got a number for you Harry.

26

That's the number of Democrat Senators who sent all those young Americans to war. """""

do you EVER research anything Smurfette.....or do you just lie ad lib?

here's the vote....if you'll notice only one republican nay vote.

now what was your point again?

Party Ayes Nays No Vote
Republican 48 1 0
Democratic 29 21 0
Independent 0 1 0
TOTALS 77 23 0 "

Harry Potter wrote on Dec 9, 2008 5:44 PM:

" you forgot the 600,000+ innocent iraqi civilians slaughtered, who posed no threat to the US. "mission accomplished"

Sorry about that, fb. And I hear that's a conservative number, and some actually think the number of Iraqi men, women and children killed as a direct result of Bush's invasion might exceed one million. All for some non-existent WMD's too. It appears that Bush is fessing up lately, probably trying to salvage his pathetic legasy.

My apologies to all if this generates more yellow cake claims from the village idiot. LOL! "

Harry Potter wrote on Dec 9, 2008 5:46 PM:

" Maybe he can't tell 6's from 9's fb. I think it might be time for a little...well you know.. rest for our friend, if you get my drift. "

sapient wrote on Dec 9, 2008 9:28 PM:

" Sorry FB: The statistics published by the Congressional Research Service at
www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL32492.pdf
say differently. Clinton 13,107 Bush 7932 thru 2007. You're entitled to your opinion, but you can't just make things up. Silly me. Of course you can. You have been doing on these sites for months. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Dec 9, 2008 11:07 PM:

" Oh thanks bobby!

Thanks for adding 3 MORE Senate Democrats to the list of Dems who voted FOR the war.

And that's my point, slick.

CONGRESS along with the President, sent our troops to war.

And those Democrats looked at the same Intel that the Clinton Admin comprised that stated Saddam had WMD and connections to Al Qaeda.

So thanks again bobby. Thanks for incriminating the Democrats even more in the war. Even when you correct me, you manage to bolster my position even further!

I knew I could count on you junior! LOL! "

The Question wrote on Dec 10, 2008 7:38 AM:

" Doggy Doh, the U.S. got hundreds of thousands of people killed, maybe a million, at a cost of $3 triilion or $4 trillion so far, to protect us from weapons that did not exist, wielded by a country that had not attacked or even threatened us. It's unconscionable.
Bush and Cheney did not know or care whether Iraq had WMD, and tricked up their WMD lies to justify an invasion. The invasion would not have been justified even if Iraq really had WMD. But it didn't.
The nonexistent WMD were an excuse, not a reason. The real reason was the neocon lust for the economic and military domination of the Mideast, announced long before 9-11 in the "Project for the New American Century." "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Dec 10, 2008 10:10 AM:

" (tricked up their WMD lies to justify an invasion)

Wrong again Scut Farkus.

Why did the Clinton Admin say Saddam had WMD and a relationship with Al Qaeda? Why did the U.N. create 17 resolutions demanding that Saddam show proof of disarmament? Why did the ranking chairman of the Senate Intel Comm, Jay Rockefeller make even more dire statements about Saddam's WMD and his terrorist connections than Bush ever did? Why did Clinton launch an attack in the Sudan against an Iraq/Al Qaeda WMD program? Why did Bill Clinton state that Saddam still had unaccounted for WMD? Why did Hillary state that Bush's Intel matched Bill's? Why haven't the Democrats conducted impeachment hearings if they have all this slam dunk evidence of "tricked up Intel" against Bush?

The only thing "tricked up" about all of this Scut....is your thought process.

LOL "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Dec 10, 2008 10:26 AM:

" (The real reason was the neocon lust for the economic and military domination of the Mideast, announced long before 9-11 in the "Project for the New American Century.")

Oh. I see, Scut.

So apparently your President Barry Hussein Obama is part of this nefarious global scheme, huh Mr.Farkus?

(cue the Twilight Zone tinfoil hat music)

Or did Barry H.O. change his nuanced mind again and decide to get all the troops out of Iraq ASAP?

LOL! "

Harry Potter wrote on Dec 10, 2008 11:37 AM:

" Sniff sniff sniff...I smell the yellow cake claim just around the corner. "

father bob wrote on Dec 10, 2008 2:18 PM:

" BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Dec 9, 2008 11:07 PM:
" Oh thanks bobby!

Thanks for adding 3 MORE Senate Democrats to the list of Dems who voted FOR the war.

And that's my point, slick.""""

my point being 98% of republicans and 58% of democrats are guible enough to believe lies.

i guess that shows you who the lemmings are........flemball "

father bob wrote on Dec 10, 2008 2:28 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Dec 9, 2008 5:46 PM:
" Maybe he can't tell 6's from 9's fb. I think it might be time for a little...well you know.. rest for our friend, if you get my drift. """"

yep....Hotdog needs a few meds. not to worry though, he'll only be around another week or so. then he'll have to decompress. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Dec 10, 2008 2:55 PM:

" (my point being 98% of republicans and 58% of democrats are guible enough to believe lies.)

So the majority of both party's believed the Intel first brought forth by the Clinton Admin, fostered by the U.N., believed by our ally's, and confirmed by Democrats on the Senate Intel Comm.

Thanks again for succinctly making the case for me, bobby. Much appreciated, slick.

LOL

Oh and....good morning! Glad to see you finally rolled out of bed. LOL "

CITIZENOFMATTOON wrote on Dec 11, 2008 5:58 AM:

" I see Obama as a person....I didn't realize he was black.
AND what does that have to do with anything?
I have some old age spots, scars, pimplesand a few BLACKHEADS. What does this make me????? "

.Doh wrote on Dec 11, 2008 8:14 AM:

" CITIZENOFMATTOON wrote on Dec 11, 2008 5:58 AM:
" I see Obama as a person....I didn't realize he was black.
AND what does that have to do with anything?
I have some old age spots, scars, pimplesand a few BLACKHEADS. What does this make me????? "

A wounded wrinkling zit excreting on the U S of A? Don't worry, have some yellow cake, and be happy now. LOL "

Harry Potter wrote on Dec 11, 2008 10:25 AM:

" Republicans are challenging lame-duck President George W. Bush on the proposal, arguing that any support for the domestic auto industry should carry significant concessions from autoworkers and creditors and reject tougher environmental rules imposed by House Democrats.

-------------------

It appears the southern Republican senators have chosen to side with the Japanese auto makers over their American counterparts. Anyone surprised? "

father bob wrote on Dec 11, 2008 10:59 AM:

" oh crap.....someone HAD to mention yellowcake.

hotdogdemo will be screwing himself in the ground for days. "

father bob wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:00 AM:

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:56 AM:

" (probably a decent human being.)

What are you basing that on, fatherIdiot?

Barry's lies? "

injustice85 wrote on Dec 11, 2008 3:13 PM:

" Edgar and Obama are about the only Illinois politicians that have any common sense or decency, Blagojevich and Ryan both deserve to go and STAY in jail, no fancy big jail cells either, what makes them so special that their cell deserves to be bigger than other criminals, just for the abuse of power their cells should be smaller than everyone elses if you ask me "

injustice85 wrote on Dec 11, 2008 3:17 PM:

" BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Dec 5, 2008 9:35 AM:

" Yep. Obama isn't even in office yet, but still, he's been very busy.

He's already backtracked on several promises.

For instance:

- He won't hit Big Oil with a windfall profit tax

- He kinda sorta won't get the troops out of Iraq in kinda sorta 16 months (give or take a year or three).

- He has essentially rehired The Clinton Administration Part Deux.
(Didn't he criticize several of Clintons policies during the primaries?)

Oh and:

- He made Hillary secretary of state AFTER he belittled her foreign policy cred during the primaries.

Yeah. I think he's going to be great!
In fact, I'm absolutely giddy about the next four years!

Pass the popcorn please........ "

Gee there dude have you not realized that this is pretty much the same thing every president has said and done, talk big game, get in office, realize you can't keep promises, look bad, it is called politics, are you people actually surprised by this? Either way he will be better than any pres before just wait and watch "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Dec 11, 2008 4:03 PM:

" (Gee there dude have you not realized that this is pretty much the same thing every president has said and done)

The difference injustice85-

is that Barry's entire campaign, policy platform, and cult of personality, was ENTIRELY predicated on "CHANGE".

And that "CHANGE", was promised to be outside-of-Washington-politics-as-usual.

Or have you forgotten about the swooning legions of mindless ObamaZombies tearfully slobbering over their Messiah as he ran down his list of great Hope and Change promises as he righteously read his teleprompters in front of those pretentious styrofoam Greek columns?

Really dude, it was only a few short months ago. "

Harry Potter wrote on Dec 11, 2008 5:53 PM:

" hotdogdemo will be screwing himself in the ground for days

---

Ouch, fb gives doggydoh another cyber wedgie. LOL!

Brings back memories of your youth, huh doggy? "

father bob wrote on Dec 12, 2008 2:31 PM:

" BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Dec 11, 2008 11:56 AM:
" (probably a decent human being.)

What are you basing that on, fatherIdiot?

Barry's lies? """"

i knew you were a closet barry manilow fan....kinda gives us all an idea of what you're all about there hotdogdilbert. "

Harry Potter wrote on Dec 13, 2008 9:52 AM:

" i knew you were a closet barry manilow fan....kinda gives us all an idea of what you're all about there hotdogdilbert. "

Yikes, fb gives blue doggy another wedgie. lol! "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Dec 14, 2008 11:41 AM:

" So Barry Obama's really named after Barry Manilow. Huh- who knew?

And apparently the two Village Idiots are fascinated by people Fruit of The Looms. Huh- who's surprised? "

Cognitus wrote on Dec 17, 2008 12:46 AM:

" Mr. Right:"" Personally, I think we should abolish the Office of the President-Elect. Oh...wait...we didn't CREATE it."

You may be totally unaware of it, but I believe this term has been in the English language for many, many years. Though you might hear it less often virtually every organization at one time or another has an *******-elect.

But of course, if you're searching for something to nitpick about, you can always pick something on which you're uninformed. "

Cognitus wrote on Dec 17, 2008 12:48 AM:

" Neo Con:If GWB is an ape

If you want certainty, watch Dave
Letterman's "Great Speeches" and you'll
be convinced GWB is not only an ape
but an illiterate one. "

Cognitus wrote on Dec 17, 2008 1:00 AM:

" Blue Dog:"You mean your honest upstanding Liberal Democrats won't try to impeach the evil diabolical President Bush? What, with all those mountains of overwhelming evidence that prove he (how did you say it?)....oh yes, "tricked up" all that "tricky" intel on all those "tricky" WMD that Saddam all of a sudden, didn't have?"

No, they won't. He's already been impeached in the eyes of the people. He has indeed done all the things you accuse him of and more, but in particular you admit he lied to us about the WMDs -- and if you are convinced, why should we try to convince those few who are not. "

Cognitus wrote on Dec 17, 2008 1:04 AM:

" Blue Dog:"Didn't Obama say that Iran was....just a small country that didn't pose a serious threat?"
Blue Dog would you please give a reference to exactly when and in what context he made a statement identical to the one you made up.

Hmmmm, why are you beginning to sweat???? "

Cognitus wrote on Dec 17, 2008 1:06 AM:

" Blue Dog:" What's the difference thus far between Bush and Obama, my dear Question? "

Answer: A million miles of integrity. "

Cognitus wrote on Dec 17, 2008 1:12 AM:

" Blue Dog:"That's the number of Democrat Senators who sent all those young Americans to war. "

I wonder if the Blue Puppy would announce the number of Republicans who voted FOR the Iraq War and the number of Republicans who voted AGAINST it???

Don't count on hearing from Blue Dog; he's an intellectual coward, and besides he had no friends to look it up for him. "

Cognitus wrote on Dec 17, 2008 1:17 AM:

" Thank to Father Bob for making a fool
out of Blue Dog who tried to imply that the Democrats were solely responsible for the Iraq War.

Maybe -- unlikely, but maybe -- Blue
Dog will try to tell the truth instead of just making up statistics and blowing his bazooo. "

Cognitus wrote on Dec 17, 2008 1:24 AM:

" Blue Dog:
" (probably a decent human being.)

What are you basing that on, fatherIdiot?
=======================================
It becomes increasingly obvious that Blue
Dog is out of tune with the world, with a lack of reality and a surplus of arrogance. I'll be pleased when the guys
with the white coats come to pick him up and put him in a place where he can scream all day about the injustices of the world, but no one can hear him -- or be troubled by his written trite. "