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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Lee Enterprises

Sunday, November 16, 2008 8:05 PM CST
LETTER: 'We just witnessed a hostile takeover of US'

By WILLIAM OGLE, Ashmore

Does anyone reading this newspaper know what the word coup d’etat means?

According to the dictionary it is “a sudden and decisive action in politics, esp. one resulting in a change of government illegally or by force.”

The recently elected president of the US has taken over the US by a coup d’etat because he has done so illegally. Illegally paying ACORN to register thousands of illegal voters, illegally accepting several hundreds of millions of dollars from foreign sources.

We have just witnessed a coup d’etat by a group of politicians taking over an existing government without firing a single shot.

You have just seen the most vicious take over of the greatest country the world has ever known, and millions of well meaning Americans were party to it. Thanks to all of you who have contributed to the demise of America that used to be and will never be again.

You now have put a political party into a complete monopoly with control of the White House and both houses of Congress.

You can expect the new president and the new socialist Congress to appoint liberal activist judges to the U.S. Supreme Court and all levels of Federal Appeals judges who will not rule on the law itself but will make the laws that the ruling party wants.

This means that they will enact laws that redistribute the wealth by taking money from anyone who has it to those who do not. They will make it illegal to own a gun of any kind, in other words they will force you to give up your gun or spend the rest of your life in a “gulag.” You will be taxed so heavily that you will have nothing to retire on or to accumulate wealth in any way.

Many of you are scratching your head and saying how did this happen. Unfortunately you have only to look into a mirror and see the person who did it if you voted for the president to be.

Now many of you who did vote that way will say in the sordid future of this country that you did not vote that way, but the die has been cast and now you are going to see “change” that will change America as we used to know it. May God have mercy on us.

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Harry Potter wrote on Nov 16, 2008 8:38 PM:

" I thought they close Ashmore estates. "

Hahvahd wrote on Nov 16, 2008 8:46 PM:

" So you have the figures to support that more than 7 million votes were fraudulent? Give me a break!

Where were you claiming coup d'tat when Bush stole Florida 8 years ago? Or when he used the same fraudulent tactics to steal Ohio 4 years ago?

Guess it's only a "bloodless coup" if your guy loses. . . . "

VTucker wrote on Nov 16, 2008 9:41 PM:

" Many of you are scratching your head and saying how did this happen."

No, I'm scratching my head and wondering why people are expressing this level of paranoia. "

ichabod wrote on Nov 16, 2008 11:30 PM:

" The poor sour grapes Republicans can't seem to get it through their heads why they lost the election. With the country and half of the world in chaos and shambles, they can't seem to see who got us here. If everything happens that a lot of them predict, Hey, it already has. And, it didn't come with Obama. "

Rev Clif wrote on Nov 17, 2008 2:42 AM:

" May God bless and keep you and yours in these times to come.

While you bring out some very powerful info that the sheeple don't know or care about, we should also blow out the whole Left/Right paradigm which is a puppet show starring no one of independent power or even influence. If you want to know where they get their marching orders from, google Bilderburg, Council on Foreign Relations, Tri-Lateral Commission, Civilian Inmate Labor Camp. Obamas main handler is a man named Zbignew Brzezinski. Zbig is one of the heavyweight players of the hidden management. His plan is for war with Russia. He created Al Queda when he recruited Osama and his organization known at that time as Mujahadeen to fight in Afghanistan as a surrogate for the US in trying to bleed out the Russians. Zbig was Jimmy Carters.

So is David Rockefeller, he admits he wants to bring America as we know it to an end in favor of Globalism and World Governance in a Neo Feudal/Fascist nightmare that only pays off for the bankers at the top and their Corporations.

Oh and about Osama, he's been dead for quite some time. Benazir Bhuto of Pakistan offhandedly mentioned this in an interview with David Frost. Next public appearance she made she was popped in the head and they tried to claim she hit her head on the handle that she died. See both videos on You Tube. You'll want to search for the unedited version of the Frost interview. They edited the Osama part out after it had aired. Subtle, eh?

More googling, United Nations Biodiversity Agenda 21, REX 84.

Okay, now here is where it gets scary...get to know a little known but terribly popular with the elite philosophy and practices called "eugenics". Today they call it genetics. These people are the philosophical inspiration for Hitler Aryan race. It wasn't Hitlers idea. These are the ones called the elite or Illuminati or whatever. They are consolidating now and spreading the bailout money around. Their target population for this planet is 500 million people.

Another point is the fact that the Federal Reserve is as much a part of the government as Federal Express. It is a privately owned bank.

Their have been 26,000 men and women of the cloth around the country that have been recruited and trained by Homeland Security in how to lead their flocks into submission by "quelling dissent" which was the point of the training. These Judas goats will advise their people to turn in their weapons, take the vaccines, be relocated to a work camp, etc. They will also try to use Hitlers favorite scripture, Romans 13.

If that isn't enough information to shift your paradigm, I don't know what to say.

May God bless you and yours. "

HeinekenMan wrote on Nov 17, 2008 5:39 AM:

" Cry me a river, brother. George W. Bush was the worst president in the history of the country. Now you're carrying on like an angry 2-year-old? That's rich. I can't even address anything you've said because you've offered no facts. In fact, you've twisted the truth so badly that I have to conclude that you're a flat liar. It's awfully pathetic. Obama's campaign never paid ACORN. They were merely a contractor hired by the company that the campaign paid. And McCain has his own link to ACORN. He gave a speech for them a few years ago. If you just have to fuss and whine, though, perhaps you can do something about it. I'd get an education. That seems to be your party's weakness. While the Democrats are Harvard-educated men and Rhodes Scholars, your party's filled with people like Palin, who went to umpteen colleges before even getting a bachelor's degree and men like McCain, who was about the worst-performing student in his entire class. Oh, and don't forget Bush, the C student in college. Apparently, they were grading on a curve. The guy's most recent score on approval ratings was about 20 percent. The last time I checked, that's complete and total failure. "

Early Bird wrote on Nov 17, 2008 6:33 AM:

" After reading this bit of lunacy, I don't know whether to laugh or to cry. The results of this election seems to have brought out all of the racists, lunatics and paranoids, and their nutty theories.

We survived (barely) have all three branches under one party, Mr Ogle, and how did that work out for us?

Everyday we hear a new excuse for the results. Today it's ACORN, while the other day someone said we were ambushed and another blames it on his idea that young voters are stupid. One poster even cites a wacko attorney who has sued about every politician coming down the pike as someone who will stop Obama being seated.

The funny part is that none of the exit polls show any of the reasons our local extremists are citing as the reason for Obama victory. I wonder why that is?

I look forward to tomorrows paper to see what new theory we will hear about.

Hats off to the JG-TC and the JG-TC.com website for giving all of the disgruntled folks a place to get all of their venom out.

This website is better than the comedy channel. "

Read all over wrote on Nov 17, 2008 6:58 AM:

" This newspaper is nuts. "

The Question wrote on Nov 17, 2008 7:02 AM:

" This illustrates just how delusional Republicans have become. Do try not to soil yourself in unbridled panic, Mr. Ogle. "

shumphreys wrote on Nov 17, 2008 7:59 AM:

" Thank God that we will be seeing a "change in America as we used to know it." No more policies based on fear, hate or greed. We have the hope of an Administration doesn't see monsters under the bed or boogey men around every corner. Human rights might actually become a guiding principle,one principle that we can be proud of. Before the election I mentioned that America was at a cross roads, a seismic shift was coming, and we'd see if this transition would be smooth or filled with violence. As far as men like this are concerned He-- has just frozen over and the end of the world as he knows it has come. Thank heavens. "

Becky wrote on Nov 17, 2008 8:28 AM:

" Mr. Ogle, please name one, just one, illegal vote that ACORN is responsible for. Not registration, but a real, bonafide vote. "

medic57 wrote on Nov 17, 2008 8:31 AM:

" Give me a break people, it doesn't matter who you like now, Obama won the presidency. People should be backing him as the fairly elected president of this country, and, christians that think he is bad for the country should be praying for him, I was always taught that God could help anyone if the prayer and faith was there. Does he not deserve the same prayer that people gave to President Bush in the last 8 years?No matter what, he is the president for a while, we need to give him our support even if we didn't vote for him. "

julio wrote on Nov 17, 2008 8:33 AM:

" Leave God out of it. He will one day judge you and Elizabeth Dole. I don't think he will look favorable upon those who used his name to promote their cause.
Put down the Rush Limbaugh and slowly back away from the Fox News. "

Rotty wrote on Nov 17, 2008 8:33 AM:

" Even though I don't share alot of the same thoughts, as some of the "lefties" around here, I think EB's post from the other thread, fits this one as well.

"The sky is falling! The sky is falling!"

LOL!

Kudos on your first post, as well, HP!

LOL!

Thanks for the morning laughs, my friends!

Have a great day! "

medic57 wrote on Nov 17, 2008 8:38 AM:

" HeinekenMan

Going to umpteen colleges before you get a bachelors degree does not make you any dumber than the guy who got his at Harvard, it probably just means you didn't have as much money.

That's like saying the best running backs come from Texas or Southern Cal, tell that to Jackson State, where Walter Payten played. "

Rotty wrote on Nov 17, 2008 8:41 AM:

" The Question wrote on Nov 17, 2008 7:02 AM:

"Do try not to soil yourself in unbridled panic, Mr. Ogle."

.......

Good one, as well, TQ!
LOL!
(Even though I don't fully agree with the first part.)

Susie, I'll get to yours, later.
LOL! "

medic57 wrote on Nov 17, 2008 8:42 AM:

" shumphreys wrote on Nov 17, 2008 7:59 AM:

" Thank God that we will be seeing a "change in America as we used to know it."

Hey Susan, what were those first 2 words in your post? "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 17, 2008 9:01 AM:

" Their have been 26,000 men and women of the cloth around the country that have been recruited and trained by Homeland Security in how to lead their flocks into submission by "quelling dissent" which was the point of the training. These Judas goats will advise their people to turn in their weapons, take the vaccines, be relocated to a work camp, etc. They will also try to use Hitlers favorite scripture, Romans 13.

---------------------------

Some one needs to gets this guy some medicine. LOL! "

longtimegone wrote on Nov 17, 2008 9:05 AM:

" My Mym there is much whinning ,moaning and knashing of teeth in crapublica now. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 17, 2008 9:15 AM:

" You have just seen the most vicious take over of the greatest country the world has ever known, and millions of well meaning Americans were party to it.

-------------------

You don't have to go to those nutty right wing websites, the ones that people like Jon V, eddie miller, NeoCon, and the rest of their delusional ilk visit, or even listen to Limbaugh to see this sort of crazy thinking! The sour grapes letters to the editors seem to be getting progressively nuttier by the day. "

SaintDanger wrote on Nov 17, 2008 9:19 AM:

" Well, after reading this letter, I was more confused than ever. ACORN? Anyone who knows anything knows that if I turned in a voter registration card to ANYONE that said I was The Incredible Hulk, they would have to legally turn it in. That's what Federal Law dictates. There's no option. Also, he didn't pay ACORN, but you have to know what you're talking about to understand that. Income tax is a redistribution of wealth, period. We have had it for a long time, so I don't know why it is coming up now. What, took you a few decades to catch on to it? At least there are a lot of other people that know this is just the rantings of a sore loser. Isn't activist Judge just another way of saying that they interpret the law not only based on the strict constitutional grounds, but in relation to modern times? Who would want a judge that realized problems have come up that the founding fathers never thought of? That's just crazy! I know we'll get more of those activist judges that did things like integrate schools. The nerve. I can't believe that the country was stolen in a landslide. The America I live in now is run by a man that has no interest in the country's greater good, no interest in the rest of the world, and no interest in the middle/lower class. That's the change were making? Bring on the coup. I'll gladly change that. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 17, 2008 9:31 AM:

" I see where one of the major political parties in Germany has elected a dark skinned person (of Greek ancestry) to be its head. I have to wonder if all the angry old white men (like NeoCon and Pierce) are carrying on over there, too?

I suspect we all know the real reason for their being so upset. Old Jack is the only who has come close to revealing his real problem with Obama, the rest hide behind all sorts of inane reasons.

Hitler wasn't the only one who thought power should be reserved for the white race. "

Elbert wrote on Nov 17, 2008 9:31 AM:

" Mr Ogle does have one valid point, i.e. what could happen when one party controls house sentate and the presidency. Afterall, we have what happened when the house senate and presidency were controlled by the Republicans.

As to the rest of his comments; well he is entitled to them, but not to his own version of the facts as a famous person once said.

I gather he is upset. That is unfortunate. "

Jon Vanatta wrote on Nov 17, 2008 9:35 AM:

" SH, "Thank heavens"? I didn't think you............ "

father bob wrote on Nov 17, 2008 10:00 AM:

" Mr Ogle....while you're ranting like the lunatic you most probably are, how about mixing in a little muslim voodoo, some bill ayers spoof and some socialist shtick......get over it, Obama won. "

VTucker wrote on Nov 17, 2008 10:18 AM:

" Rev Clif, can you provide references for some of the information you posted? Especially pertaining to "26,000 men and women of the cloth"--I would be interested in reading more about that.

At first, I thought these comments were satirical, but now I'm not sure. If you are serious, you must be paralyzed by fear.

The only thing missing here is a reference to Obama being the Antichrist. "

ed miller wrote on Nov 17, 2008 10:31 AM:

" Well, he is right about judges legislating from the bench. We've had that problem for years now.

He that lives upon hope will die fasting. ~Benjamin Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanack "

sapient wrote on Nov 17, 2008 11:29 AM:

" Mr. Ogle is concerned about the future of the country. I am concerned about the future of the country. Several years or weeks ago you left wingers were concerned about the future of the country. However, the only concern that is legitimate is yours. So much for tolerance and diversity of thought. "

ed miller wrote on Nov 17, 2008 11:30 AM:

" What exactly do you think will change? In our track record of electing Democrats and Republicans over the past few decades, what have they exactly changed? Over the past few years, the federal government has gotten bloated and inefficient. What makes you think that will be any different? In his record as an Illinois senator, he pushed a "government google" and something stating we don't like nuclear weapons. How did that make your life any better. He has never even went to bat for Futuregen. At least Durbin went on record for that. The Democrats promised to end the Iraq war immediately if we gave them the congress in 2006. The Clintons promised to fix health care. How did all that go? Clinton was so hamstrung by all his legal problems in office, he could not effectively govern so as not to appear to be trying to "distract" the country away from his own issues. Don't get me wrong, I don't think McCain would have been much better. Until we send the current bloated government a message, don't expect anything different.

And what exactly did you mean by "bogey men"? If you are inferring that the threat of terrorism is just a scare tactic from the Republicans, you are sadly naive. Don't think for a minute if we just left Iraq and Afghanistan tomorrow, that these people would quietly go back home. "

cycle1314 wrote on Nov 17, 2008 12:23 PM:

" Here is a thought, McCain lost by nearly eight million votes. ACORN is not the reason. Just because you do not know any black people, does not mean they do not exist. Thanks for one more reminder of the hatred that still exists in America. A candidate has won. Legally. "

injustice85 wrote on Nov 17, 2008 1:07 PM:

" if this country meant anything to you william you would back the new president and support our country in its time of need "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 17, 2008 2:23 PM:

" Ogles letter sounds like a Rush Limbaugh editorial. All hot air and no real substance. Only someone like an eddie miller would believe any of it.

I'm also wondering if our friend NeoCon, probably one of the few conservatories with any brains posting on here, is embarrassed for his fellow conservatives that are putting out this sort of hogwash?

No need to respond Neo, I think I know. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Nov 17, 2008 2:54 PM:

" Harry Potter (unfortunately) wrote ......

" I see where one of the major political parties in Germany has elected a dark skinned person (of Greek ancestry) to be its head. I have to wonder if all the angry old white men (like NeoCon and Pierce) are carrying on over there, too?...Hitler wasn't the only one who thought power should be reserved for the white race. "
---------------------------------

Harry...Harry...Harry... you have to go and interject race into the argument, don't you?

I personally have never once said/written anything about "the messiah's" race...not once....

I could care less what color "the messiah" is/was/or even will be. His race is obviously your issue.

I live by what MLK Jr's pretty good premise of, "judge by the content of character". But obviously character doesn't matter anymore though?

Why else do Illinois denizens keep electing crooks to run the state of Illinois (regardless of party), right?

So as for Obama's character, it's my observation that Obama's a Harvard educated, "community organizer (who signs that paycheck?), no experience (other than he wrote a book about HIMSELF and spent and spent a few hours in the IL Senate), smooth talking, political "used car salesman". Image if republicans would have put up a candidate like that for president? Look at how y'all treat Sarah Palin!!!

At the very least she's done quite exceptionally considering the meager blessings God's given her.....

"The messiah" has spent his entire time as a "community organizer" "unwittingly" associating with nefarious individuals like Wright, Ayers, and Rezko and whomever else, as an Illinois senator voting with the most liberal of voting records when he voted....and all just to further his political aspirations...and you all elected him Prez...Presid...Pres....you know...he'll live in the Whitehouse. His "character' thus far has spoken volumes.

At best, I'm concerned that he's a socialist and at worst he's a communist.

So just stop...ya just sound silly... "

Becky wrote on Nov 17, 2008 3:51 PM:

" Medic, Gnostics believe in God and we have a very close relationship with our Creator. We don't believe in church, zealotry and orthodoxy. We can thank God and mean it. We just don't have to have someone in between us to do it with. "

Dottedline wrote on Nov 17, 2008 5:13 PM:

" Mr. Ogle: I, too, believe that a coup took place in America. However, unlike you, I believe it has taken place under the calculating, cunning direction of the Bush-Cheney administration. I think that its seeds began under the Bill Clinton administration because Clinton is a Democrat in name only and is really a Republican in Democratic guise only for the purposes of advancing the Clintons. Bush-Cheney, et al., on the other hand, masterminded a much more insidious process. Were they behind 9/11 or did they just ignore legitimate intelligence in order to use 9/11 opportunistically for their own purposes? Since 9/11 by all accounts of true conservatives (quite different from Bush-Cheney Republicans) and other independent, thinking Americans of all political persuasions, this administration has violated the Constitution of the United States of America repeatedly. On the basis of proven lies and propaganda, they invaded another country, unprovoked by THAT country. They sent Americas sons and daughters to die or be maimed for a totalitarian, pseudo-aristocratic agenda! They destroyed that country and have created chaos and havoc wherever they have been. Their profligate spending of your and my hard-earned money, enriching their cronies, has made the United States the greatest DEBTOR nation in history, and to whom are we indebted? Who owns most of America now? The Chinese. The Russians. The Saudis. American totalitarian, corporate oligarchs. They squandered our treasure, hurt our people, damaged our environment and those of other countries. They made our military a mercenary force and a very weakened one, at that. They established that abomination, the Patriot Act which in the 1930s and 1940s would have pleased the Gestapo. They have ignored the law, completely disregarding subpoenas and other treasured American legal processes. They have lied, lied and lied. They have been widely described as the most secretive administration in history. They have betrayed every deeply held, long-standing American value. And now as a new administration prepares to take over, they are looting, pillaging and plundering in the most blatant transfer of wealth from taxpayers to the elite oligarchs ever seen since twentieth century fascist takeovers in Europe and the Soviet Union. Mr. Ogle, you actually wrote the words: This means that they will enact laws that redistribute the wealth by taking money from anyone who has it to those who do not.

What exactly do you think has just happened in your beloved Bush-Cheney administration, sir, with the Emergency! Urgent! Hurry! bailout? The difference in your meaning and the reality that has just occurred is that wealth is not being redistributed by taking money from anyone who has it to those who do not. No, your favorites way was to take it from American taxpayers, already beleaguered and struggling, and give it to the Bush-Cheney cronies and elites who are already wealthy beyond imagination. The aims of Bush-Cheney, et al., was to destroy the American middle class, establish an impoverished, fearful underclass (immigrants and unemployed Americans), and enrich the very small elite group of uber-wealthy through power and money-grabs. They have weakened this nation, made us very insecure, made very unlikely the prospects for a legitimate national defense to be established, destroyed American business, centralized and pillaged natural resources, ignored the destruction of American cities and left American citizens to die whether its the damaged Iraq/Afghanistan veterans they have left to fend for themselves, whether its American citizens left to drown or rot in the Gulf south, whether its the unemployed and ill. Americas public schools, Americas roads, bridges, universities you name it; they have torn it up and left it to rot! They have severely damaged this nation and made us vulnerable and insecure. Corrupt, cynical, UN-American! That is what YOUR administration has done, sir. Whether Obama will do any better or not remains to be seen. But HE is not responsible for the crimes and atrocities that have occurred in the actual coup that YOUR president and his cronies have wrought in their treasonous 8 years of totalitarian rule. Your point of view is in the minority, Mr. Ogle. Almost 75% of Americans disagree with you about the administration you apparently are quite satisfied with. The world disagrees with you. Your view is on the margins, the fringes. You have swallowed their propaganda and now spew it. It is propaganda, and it is ugly and it is false. The truth is that Bush-Cheney should be tried as war criminals and, more importantly, should be tried for treason! Pelosi should be thrown out of office for declaring impeachment is off the table as she took the Speakers gavel, as if that gavel gave her the power to rob the people of their Constitutional rights! There is plenty of blame to go around, but none more stinking and potent than that which lies at the feet of Bush-Cheney & Co. "

CHILL! wrote on Nov 17, 2008 5:21 PM:

" Becky wrote on Nov 17, 2008 3:51 PM:
" Medic, Gnostics believe in God and we have a very close relationship with our Creator. We don't believe in church, zealotry and orthodoxy. We can thank God and mean it. We just don't have to have someone in between us to do it with. "

Funny, you are describing a great deal of Christians there too Becky, difference being that Christians only believe in ONE GOD, and follow His Commandments and His teachings through THE Bible. "

Locke wrote on Nov 17, 2008 6:50 PM:

" Hey, let's just look at what this guy said:

"You now have put a political party into a complete monopoly with control of the White House and both houses of Congress."

Like we had from 2000-2006?

"You can expect the new president and the new socialist Congress to appoint liberal activist judges to the U.S. Supreme Court..."

That's a nice sound-byte, now you mind actually telling us how these 'liberal activist judges' work? GOP has a filibuster if they so desire btw.

"This means that they will enact laws that redistribute the wealth by taking money from anyone who has it to those who do not."

You mean like Lincoln's income tax, Teddy Roosevelts progressive tax, and Reagans EITC? Get your facts straight and get off the sound-bytes.

"May God have mercy on us."

If you don't like it, feel free to move to Canada -- the country said no to the GOP, yes for change, and yes to Obama. "

what? wrote on Nov 17, 2008 8:33 PM:

" there's much astir in our land fairly abuzz it seems we've flushed the woodwork of vermin swat them while they're out. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Nov 17, 2008 8:37 PM:

" Locke wrote (misguidedly...again)....

"You mean like Lincoln's income tax, Teddy Roosevelts progressive tax, and Reagans EITC? Get your facts straight and get off the sound-bytes."

----------

Okay... I'm gonna say this again....you obviously didn't pay attention last time I addressed this aforementioned, supercilious argument...

Lincoln's tax was 3% and he was keeping the nation together...Teddy was a progressive and got booted from the Republican Party ....and Reagan's EITC has been loved by liberals ...so stop it!

John Locke "would be rolling in his grave" if he knew how much you were misrepresenting things.... "

Early Bird wrote on Nov 18, 2008 5:34 AM:

" At best, I'm concerned that he's a socialist and at worst he's a communist.

..........................

Hey Harry, would this one be a good one for stupid comment of the day? lol.... "

Locke wrote on Nov 18, 2008 6:17 AM:

" No, you did address anything this time. I paid attention last time, but you are still grasping at straws.

You said it again, "liberals socialists" loved Reagan's EITC... so therefore it is not socialist? Because the "liberal socialist" liked it? You are saying it yourself! It is socialist! Because the "liberal socialists" like it, it somehow isn't socialism? That's the lamest argument I have ever heard.

Roosevelt's progressive tax caused him to be booted from the party, so therefore it was not socialist? That is some great defense of a GOP president there. No denial it was socialism, huh?

And Lincoln, Lincoln was the first person to say he knew how better to spend our money than the people. In fact, the people didn't want to be part of Lincoln's country, so he raised taxes and conscripted people against their will. So his brand of socialism is justified because "he held the nation together."

How is this misguided? Maybe you didn't listen to me last time when I said your arguments don't hold water.

This is your problem, you disagree with what people say, but you fail to support your disagreement with facts. You disagree with my supposition that these men were socialists by saying socialism was justified, they weren't really a Republican, and that liberals liked it. In ALL three instances you agree with my supposition that they were socialists, but you somehow manage to say they aren't.

How is this possible?

Facts support my statement there are GOP socialists. I'm sorry that does not coincide with the sound-byte that Fox News played about Obama being a socialist.

Do I really think Lincoln, Roosevelt, Reagan, or Obama is a socialist? No. But if the Right-Wing lie-machine is going to brand someone a socialist by a very narrow definition, that narrowly defined view should be applied to Republicans as well.

And really, Lockean political philosophy has nothing to do with this, aside from the fact that if Locke were to name the worst president in history, he would undeniably cite Lincoln -- because Lincoln increase the power of the national government immeasurably. "

shumphreys wrote on Nov 18, 2008 7:21 AM:

" It would seem that "God" favors Obama since he has obviously answered the prayers of the Democrats and ignored the prayers of the Republicans. He certainly could have sent a few winter storms to snarl traffic in the BIG cities and northern states to keep Democrats from going to the polls or tampered with a few ballot boxes, but he didn't. It would seem that God got tired of Christianity being used by the Republicans to divide the American people. It would seem that God got tired of the republicans using Christianity to further their self-interests while ignoring the plights of the down trodden, hungry and poor. It would seem that God got tired of Republican hypocrisy claiming to uphold his values than trampeling all over them. OR am I reading too much into Obama's win? "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 18, 2008 7:55 AM:

" Yup, it would. "

I Care wrote on Nov 18, 2008 8:57 AM:

" You people can say what you want. Think what you want. "I AM NOT STICKING UP FOR OR DEFENDING HIM." But Bush never had a chance after 911. I think he made grave mistakes. But I also think he made good choices also. and there again Bush did NOT start all the trouble 911 did. I dont think ANY president could have survived what took place and started. "

HeinekenMan wrote on Nov 18, 2008 8:57 AM:

" I'm not sure why I'm bothering now to respond to Medic, but I am.

Earlier in this thread, I noted that Clinton was a Rhodes Scholar and that Obama went to Harvard. Medic, you suggested that it has no bearing and that the people who didn't go there probably just didn't have as much money.

Perhaps you haven't been paying attention. Both Clinton and Obama grew up without fathers. Both men were raised in families that struggled to pay the rent. Both men earned those educational opportunities because of their hard work and intelligence. It had nothing to do with money.

In fact, the people to which I compare Clinton and Obama are the ones who benefited from deep pockets and their family names. That would be Bush, who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, and McCain, whose father and grandfather both were four-star admirals.

As for intelligence, there are people who are quite intelligent but didn't go to a fancy private university. But I assure you that it requires an extreme amount of intelligence to be a Rhodes Scholar or to be chosen as the president of the Harvard Law Review. Those are achievements. You don't just walk onto a campus and get that sort of opportunity. You have to earn it.

By the way. you misspelled the last name of one of the greatest running backs in the history of the NFL. "

Techno-less wrote on Nov 18, 2008 9:16 AM:

" I feel like I am traveling through la-la-land. Face it people. The votes were cast, the count was made, and guess who won...a POLITICIAN! Nothing has changed except who we will be complaining about for the next four to eight years. Campaign promises will be quickly forgotten. Pet projects will zoom to the forefront. And very little will be different.

Somewhere out there are a few non-politicos who will be the actual ones who solve some of the problems, and the "ruling" party will claim that they are responsible.

Over time some of those pet projects will crash and burn, and the "ruling" party will point out why someone else is responsible.

There are no majic wands in the hands of the elected that can be waved around to re-create Eden. And the odds are good that, in four to eight years, we will all be having "good-bye Obama" parties while squiring in the newest POLITICIAN.

People are so busy bashing each other over the heads with a political mallet that no one seems to have noticed that the mallets are identical. The "us against them" attitudes should be the common people standing together to keep the politicos in check. This constant bickering and snickering weakens us, and makes it easier for the "ruling class" to have their way.

It is time for us to stand united, to face the seats of government, and to let them know that we will be watching them very closely. It is time to put the media on notice as well. It is time to gather together and put a stop to the b------t. "

sapient wrote on Nov 18, 2008 9:27 AM:

" Injustice 85 wrote: " if this country meant anything to you william you would back the new president and support our country in its time of need

Yes, I 85, just like you supported President Bush for the last 8 years. "

The Question wrote on Nov 18, 2008 9:37 AM:

" Well put, Susan. I saw your logic. Now I'm a believer. "

father bob wrote on Nov 18, 2008 10:01 AM:

" dam....what happened to pierce's letter? were we not playing well and it got pulled?

strange things happen overnight... "

formerillini wrote on Nov 18, 2008 10:22 AM:

" Being from Mattoon originally I enjoy coming back home and being able to read and keep up with events going on in my home town. This article was of interest but the entire reaction is ridiculous. The only person I saw here that wasnt spewing hate from one side or the other was ed miller. Congrats Ed on having good sense.

Lets face it people, we had NO GOOD CHOICE in this election, neither candidate was worth all the uproar. So ok, all the Dems have done is complain about the Republicans when they were in control of The White House and Congress and Senate... fair enough... But now the Dems have control.. CONGRATS.... now after all the complaining.. it is a Republican Dream from waht I see.. How?? Well simple really... it is "Put Up or Shut Up" time. They say they can fix America, I hope they can and am willing to kick back and watch and see. I will be praying for them that they can fix it, admittedly good people we as a country are in a MESS. Finances are horrible, Faith in God is at a low, Abortion is at a high, it is all a MESS. So really WHO CARES if the President is black, white, green or purple, Democrat or Republican if they can fix the mess that truly started well before the Bush Administration.

I read in one post where they were talking about God doing this and that to help or hinder the election and God wanted the Dems or he would have sent storms. I dont think God is either Republican or Democrat. I think that his vote would have been to put God back where he belongs... IN CONTROL. And lets not forget one thing.. The Devil also answers prayers.

So how about we all stop the fighting about who messed this up, who did this and who did that, and take a bit and focus on God and pray that he will guide our new President and help him make decisions that are pleasing to God. Then, if that happens and those prayers are answered, Dems, Republicans, Independants, whatever party you claim to back... We will all benefit.

God Bless you all and God Bless America! "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Nov 18, 2008 11:05 AM:

" It was a hostile takeover fueled by complete ignorance. Zogby poll surveyed over 500 self-professed Obama voters and has an MOE of 4.4%, with 55% having a college degree and over 90% having a high-school diploma. It asked 12 multiple-choice questions; only 2.4% got at least 11 correct. Only .5% got all them correct.

-57.4 could NOT correctly say which party controls congress (50/50 shot just by guessing)

-81.8 could NOT correctly say Joe Biden quit a previous campaign because of plagiarism (25% chance by guessing)

-82.6 could NOT correctly say that Obama won his first election by getting opponents kicked off the ballot (25% chance by guessing)

-88.4% could NOT correctly say that Obama said his policies would likely bankrupt the coal industry and make energy rates skyrocket (25% chance by guessing)

-56.1 % could NOT correctly say Obama started his political career at the home of two former members of the Weather Underground (25% chance by guessing).

And yet-

-Only 13.7% failed to identify Palin as the person their party spent $150,000 in clothes on

-Only 6.2% failed to identify Palin as the one with a pregnant teenage daughter

-And 86.9 % thought that Palin said that she could see Russia from her house, even though that was Tina Fey who said that. "

Kelly Armor wrote on Nov 18, 2008 11:54 AM:

" Blue Dog Dem, you're the one who needs to get some facts straight. Palin DID indeed say she could see Russia from her house (Palin said front porch, Fey said house) and even worse, she claimed to have experience in dealing with foreign governments because Russian airplanes fly over Alaskan airspace!! Palin became the laughing stock that she is not because of what others said about her, but by her own words.

And in another of your fact-challenged claims, you said that Obama's campaign started in Bill Ayers' house, a blatant lie which has been proved a lie over and over again.

To the poster (forget who) that claimed there's no difference in parties and that it doesn't matter which politician we elect, I beg to differ. I sure lived a heckuva lot better under Bill Clinton's policies than I did under Reagan or either Bush. He cut military spending and used the savings to reduce deficit spending while still investing more in education, job creation, and other domestic programs. "

injustice85 wrote on Nov 18, 2008 12:49 PM:

" Early Bird wrote on Nov 18, 2008 5:34 AM:

" At best, I'm concerned that he's a socialist and at worst he's a communist.

..........................

Hey Harry, would this one be a good one for stupid comment of the day? lol.... "

no Rev Clif's wins "

injustice85 wrote on Nov 18, 2008 12:54 PM:

" sapient wrote on Nov 18, 2008 9:27 AM:

" Injustice 85 wrote: " if this country meant anything to you william you would back the new president and support our country in its time of need

Yes, I 85, just like you supported President Bush for the last 8 years. "

well when your right your right, you do make an excellent point, I guess I just saw Bush as harmful to the country with the ridiculous war and all, and now I see Obama and I see him as medicine to this country, the real difference is Bush was ignorant, a funny guy but ignorant, Obama is smart and not just "washington" smart, i think we will all see the differences but nonetheless good point, just remember we actually elected Obama though, Bush happened "

father bob wrote on Nov 18, 2008 12:58 PM:

" And 86.9 % thought that Palin said that she could see Russia from her house, even though that was Tina Fey who said that."""

it's easy to get two comedians confused "

The Question wrote on Nov 18, 2008 1:18 PM:

" According to these ranting Republican whack jobs, everything that happened from January 2001 until about August 2008 was Bill Clinton's fault. Everything that happened or will happen after August 2008 is or will be Barack Obama's fault.
According to the GOP whack jobs, their High Holy Chimpanzee is to blame for nothing. To listen to them, you'd think Bush doesn't even exist anymore. "

medic57 wrote on Nov 18, 2008 1:52 PM:

" HeinekenMan

So, if a person goes to LakeLand for 2 years and then to Eastern for 2 years, for the same amount of money he could have went to Harvard? If it takes a major college to be smart, tell that to John Malcovich, Burl Ives, Jim Edgar. "

red,white,blue wrote on Nov 18, 2008 2:25 PM:

" Sapient, you nailed it exactly! All these posters who had nothing but derision for Bush the last 8 years are now all high and mighty and telling us we HAVE to support Obama. Well, quite frankly, I don't plan to be like they've been and we do have to support OUR president whoever he is because, and I've said it before, our safety and prosperity depend on it. Wonder how many on here think or realize if George Bush had got the support of the fawning media that Obama got and continues to receive, that his road might have been a little easier? (thank you injustice for admitting that sapient was right).

Blue Dog Democrat: as the study you cite shows us many voters are woefully misinformed when it comes to who they pick to back and what they find important. Anybody at all familiar with Illinois politics and knowing that this is the environment Obama came from should have found it hard to believe that he is going to be any different. I can hope he will be but I doubt mightily. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Nov 18, 2008 2:27 PM:

" If you're going to challenge me Kelly you might want to get your facts straight. Palin said- "..you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska." "

red,white,blue wrote on Nov 18, 2008 2:33 PM:

" Kelly Armor: Obama's campaign supporters and the man himself did early on meet in Bill Ayers house. Tell me how you know this is a blatant lie.

And you do realize that by cutting military spending, Clinton exposed us to all the terrorist attacks that happened in the 90s culminating in 9/11, dont' you?

I found it amusing that in today's USA Today DeWayne Wickham's column praised President Bush for the work he has done in Africa and the support he has given AIDS research there. Wickham has NEVER had a kind word for our President. Also, the same paper had an editorial stating that we should not establish a timetable for the pullout of troops from Iraq because this tactic could leave that country vulnerable. Gee, I wonder where they might have heard that before? Isn't it amazing how much smarter Bush has gotten since the media hero was elected? "

sapient wrote on Nov 18, 2008 2:40 PM:

" I 85: Bush was made to look foolish by the media just like Palin was made fun of on SNL. This doesn't happen to liberls. He was elected and the left couldn't get over it because they perceived that the election was stolen in Florida. I understand why they felt that way. Kinda like the right feeling as though Kennedy stole the election in Dallas and Chicago and Obama stole it by ACORN. But you're right (or should I say correct). Obama was elected and we must support him and move on, but we will closely scrutinize what he does and scream to high heaven when we think he is taking us down the wrong path. Fair enough? "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Nov 18, 2008 2:46 PM:

" Kelly- you might want to watch this CNN investigative report from last month. It lays out Obama's relationship with Ayers, and yes, Obama did indeed launch his career in Ayers' home.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIF2NDY0Ixc

I think you've just proven Zogby's poll to be most accurate. "

red,white,blue wrote on Nov 18, 2008 2:49 PM:

" Injustice: by every study done after 2000, George Bush won that election. That's been the biggest problem with those who don't like Bush....they can't get over that misconception.

IF you want to worry about elections being stolen you should look at what Al Franken, who started Air America because he thought Bush stole the election in 2000, is doing in Minnesota to win that Senate seat. Not only is Franken one big jerk but he's a total hypocrite. Oh and we all saw how well Air American fared, didn't we? "

paperboy wrote on Nov 18, 2008 2:52 PM:

" For Mr. Bill Ogle and Mr. Jack Pierce. It may be a bit premature to declare the outcome of the Presidential election as the last nail in the coffin for the USA as we know it. But then again, you may know better than those of us who fell under the wicked
"change" spell. I will say it now that I did vote "that way" for "that one". I did so thinking about the "sordid" last eight years of governance that began and too long continued with the White House and both houses of Congress controlled by the "other" political.
I often found myself scratching my head and asking how did that happen. I do not feel need to publically scorn the "many of you who did vote that way". I may one day have to tell that joker in my mirror that he was just plain wrong. Unlike you, Mr.O & Mr. P., I am not yet ready to condemn the future. "

ed miller wrote on Nov 18, 2008 3:02 PM:

" Kelly Armor wrote on Nov 18, 2008 11:54 AM:
" And in another of your fact-challenged claims, you said that Obama's campaign started in Bill Ayers' house, a blatant lie which has been proved a lie over and over again."

He had a "coming out" party for Obama at his home. He has since stated that he and Obama are "close family friends" which is not how Obama worded it.

" I sure lived a heckuva lot better under Bill Clinton's policies than I did under Reagan or either Bush. He cut military spending and used the savings to reduce deficit spending while still investing more in education, job creation, and other domestic programs. "

One word. NAFTA

Even his own wife threw him under the bus on that one. "

father bob wrote on Nov 18, 2008 3:58 PM:

" BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Nov 18, 2008 2:27 PM:
" If you're going to challenge me Kelly you might want to get your facts straight. Palin said- "..you can actually see Russia from land here in Alaska." """

speaking of the moronic mrs. moose....

Sarah Palin's Alaskonomics: http://tinyurl.com/4q7ujr "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Nov 18, 2008 3:58 PM:

" Say goodbye to "change".
Barack Obama campaigned on a pledge to change Washington, vowing to upend the K Street lobbying culture he encountered when he joined the U.S. Senate.
But more than a dozen members of President-elect Obamas fast-growing transition team have worked as federally registered lobbyists within the past four years. They include former lobbyists for the nations trial lawyers association, mortgage giant Fannie Mae, drug companies such as Amgen, high-tech firms such as Microsoft, labor unions and the liberal advocacy group Center for American Progress.
Say goodbye to "hope". "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 18, 2008 5:24 PM:

" I think I smell Doh back on these boards. I'm waiting for him to starting talking about yellow cake and calling everyone libtards. LOL! "

father bob wrote on Nov 18, 2008 5:36 PM:

" Vice President Cheney and former Attorney General Gonzales indicted.

gonzoindict.gifA South Texas grand jury has returned multi-count indictments against Vice President Dick Cheney and former Attorney General Alberto Gonzales on charges related to the alleged abuse of prisoners in Willacy Countys federal detention centers""""

there you are Doh.....your heros in the news! "

father bob wrote on Nov 18, 2008 5:39 PM:

" Harry Potter wrote on Nov 18, 2008 5:24 PM:
" I think I smell Doh back on these boards. I'm waiting for him to starting talking about yellow cake and calling everyone libtards. LOL! """

yeah, he exposed himself with a comment he made on one of the other threads. he's not sharpest as we all know. "

Stanley Stetson wrote on Nov 18, 2008 7:21 PM:

" * melonhead said: he's not sharpest as we all know * speaking in tongue again leftard? * the jig is up and you're still not THE sharpest tool in the shed * libtards sure are cotton pickin pathetic * "

ed miller wrote on Nov 18, 2008 10:23 PM:

" Maybe there is a glimmer of hope yet.
At least the Dems didn't completely have Lieberman burned at the stake for endorsing McCain. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Nov 18, 2008 10:59 PM:

" OH MY GOODNESS.... LOCKE....!

You exhaust me....

As always you liberal folks trim down complex issues to singular instances and define the entirety of the issue by singular instances/factors...

You take singular instances of Presidents' acting on what they think is the greater behalf of a nation and with those singular acts, you brand them socialists?

You got to be kidding me right? Because I give someone a gift I'm Santa Claus, right?

Okay...I got it! Bizarro world!

Do politicians (both parties) promote interests that they deem promote the social welfare of the nation...yes...most certainly. I've never argued the contrary!

As for EITC, Conservatives / repubs have liked it and democrats have liked it. The EITC penalizes no one. Democrats, however, have leaned away from the EITC in favor of raising the minimum wage....because it gets votes. When the minimum wage is raised, employers usually just pass the increased cost on to the public.

At the time TR was President it has been argued that the US, if not the whole world, was "dancing" with
socialism, and arguable because of the dislocation of labor due the technological progress during the industrial revolutions. Marx, Engels, and Lenin all "popped up" about the same time American farmers came together to increase crop/farm commodity prices (look up "The Grange Movement" and the "Haymarket riot"). Later Debs and Dubois "popped up" in response to further displacement of labor. It's part of the "problem" Ford, GM, and Chrysler are facing now.

Back to Teddy R. though, some of TR's "progressiveness" stemmed from standing down the monopolies of the time. Don't get me wrong, I like TR, probably would have sided with him...but don't caste him as a conservative, let alone a "good" republican, cuz he wasn't. He came from a privileged east coast upbringing was influenced by the political dogma of the time ...kinda like the Kennedy's.....

As for the first repub, Abe, to your contrary, many would argue he was the strongest President because he kept the Union together, so what?

Do some republicans espouse socialist policies? Do some democrats espouse socialist policies? Yes and Yes. So what...I seem to recall the original argument was over the branding of Obama as a socialist.....Sheesh!

As for Obama, I've based my observations that HE'S A SOCIALIST long before stories on Fox News questioned whether he was a socialist are not.

If you investigate Obama's voting record, personal history, family history, and so forth, a solid argument can be made that he is a socialist. Put your personal bias aside and do some research. I would suggest looking at American Sources like the Chicago Tribune and WSJ, and then outside sources (non-American) like www.asiantimes.com, the Independent, and the Guardian UK...and then compare his voting records to others. I would hopefully think that you could entertain how someone might draw the conclusion that Obama espouses socialist values!

I challenge you to hold Obama up to Stalin, Lenin, Mussolini, Hitler, Castro, and Chavez and tell me where he differs from them so as to not call him a socialist!!!!!! Be sure to hold-up America's free market economy democracy to Europe's socialized market economy democracies too while your at it....

To make an obviously too long of a story short, we are in a global economy vastly different from Abe's, TR's or even Reagan's time and socialism is not what's needed now to revamp our economic prowess!

Have I explained myself enuf 4 ya now!?!? "

father bob wrote on Nov 19, 2008 10:04 AM:

" Stanley Stetson wrote on Nov 18, 2008 7:21 PM:
" * melonhead said: he's not sharpest as we all know * speaking in tongue again leftard? * the jig is up and you're still not THE sharpest tool in the shed * libtards sure are cotton pickin pathetic * """

melonhead? jig? cotton pickin?......hmmmm a little freudian racism bubbling up? take about pathetic "

sapient wrote on Nov 19, 2008 12:34 PM:

" FB, your paranoia is showing again. "

Stanley Stetson wrote on Nov 19, 2008 2:51 PM:

" * see, you are quick on your toes, bob * race baiting is not a one way street * lose your racism and you might actually be in the running for post of the day sometime * good luck libtard * "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 19, 2008 3:07 PM:

" I'm starting to get the idea that you didn't like the outcome of the election, Neo. It's OK, if Obama is as bad as you predict, he'll get booted out in four years. When a president, does a lousy job in his first term, like Bush did, he usually gets the axe from the voters, ...wait a minute... never mind, ignore that last comment. Darn there goes another one of my brilliant theories down the drain. "

The Question wrote on Nov 19, 2008 3:47 PM:

" Say it's only a paper moon
Sailing over a cardboard sea
It's the Party of Make-Believe
And it's called the GOP. "

father bob wrote on Nov 19, 2008 4:26 PM:

" Stanley Stetson wrote on Nov 19, 2008 2:51 PM:
" * see, you are quick on your toes, bob * race baiting is not a one way street * lose your racism and you might actually be in the running for post of the day sometime * good luck libtard *"""

Doh, you can change names, but your vicious hatred and ignorance is everlasting.... "

father bob wrote on Nov 19, 2008 4:30 PM:

" Stanley Stetson wrote on Nov 19, 2008 2:51 PM:
" * see, you are quick on your toes, bob * race baiting is not a one way street * lose your racism and you might actually be in the running for post of the day sometime * good luck libtard * """"

the good news is.....you'll be around for a week or two, and then they'll find you've gone off your meds and you'll be back in the nutward for a while. "

father bob wrote on Nov 19, 2008 4:32 PM:

" sapient wrote on Nov 19, 2008 12:34 PM:
" FB, your paranoia is showing again. """
__________

what if i told you is was really white...and have just been baiting the bigots to come out of the woodwork?

pretty funny idea eh??? "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Nov 19, 2008 4:51 PM:

" Speaking of the Party of Make-Believe:

For all you Democrats who actually believed those promises that Obama would pursue legal action against "harsh interrogations"

think again.

Barack Obamas incoming administration is unlikely to bring criminal charges against government officials who authorized or engaged in harsh interrogations of suspected terrorists during the George W. Bush presidency. Obama, who has criticized the use of torture, is being urged by some constitutional scholars and human rights groups to investigate possible war crimes by the Bush administration.
Two Obama advisers said theres little if any chance that the incoming presidents Justice Department will go after anyone involved in authorizing or carrying out interrogations that provoked worldwide outrage.

Obama has yet to take office, and already he is infuriating the Left.
This is the guy you all wanted- and now you've got him. Maybe you should have vetted him a little better.

;-) "

dj1956 wrote on Nov 19, 2008 5:19 PM:

" Kelly Armor: Sarah Palin said Russia could be seen from "some parts of Alaska". She never said it could be seen from her house. "

dj1956 wrote on Nov 19, 2008 5:23 PM:

" Heineken Man: Just think, John McCain went through all of that suffering as a prisoner of war in Vietnam...to give you the "privilege" of bashing him!
Sometimes it takes "real men"...not Heinekens to get the job done. "

father bob wrote on Nov 19, 2008 5:27 PM:

" Stanley Stetson wrote on Nov 19, 2008 2:51 PM:
" * see, you are quick on your toes, bob * race baiting is not a one way street * lose your racism and you might actually be in the running for post of the day sometime * good luck libtard *"""
__________

i've heard that line a million times Doh...it a copout just to try and justify your own bias.

try again "

Billie Brant wrote on Nov 19, 2008 6:12 PM:

" Hey TQ! Very good on your parody of "It's Only a Paper Moon"! Your words actually fit the meter of the song! :-) Are you a musician OR are you just old enough to remember that great old song like me? LOL!

I can't say I agree with all of your lyrics, but I give you credit for your writing talent! :-)

Now, I'm gonna be singing "Paper Moon" for the rest of the day, original lyrics though! :-) "

Locke wrote on Nov 19, 2008 6:16 PM:

" Socialist: One practising socialism.

Socialism:

A). any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

B). system of society or group living in which there is no private property

C). system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

D). stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

So, according to your learned observation, which one of these does Obama fall under, oh great one?

Basically, Obama wants to raise the taxes on the rich and give to the poor. That's what Lincoln did; Lincoln taxed the North to give freedom to the Southern slaves. That's what Roosevelt did; Roosevelt taxed the rich and gave tax breaks to the poor. That's what Reagan did; Reagan didn't cut taxes for the rich and gave money to the poor.

Obama isn't a socialist, except by the definition of the ultra right, who, by their own definition would have to label Lincoln, Roosevelt, and Reagan as socialists. Peddle about all you wish by saying it was for a good cause, socialism was the in thing at that time, or that nobody minded it, it is still socialism by your own definition.

Socialism, much like patriotism, is a word thrown about by the right to define the other party of themselves. Words are cheap and the GOP paid the price -- nobody is listening to you anymore. "

Stanley Stetson wrote on Nov 19, 2008 6:38 PM:

" * you've just witnessed a hostile takeover of your own bias, bob * you should really give up the ghost * thanks for playing along dimwit * getting your goat sure is fun and refreshing for a change * there's hope for you yet libtard * "

londonderriere wrote on Nov 19, 2008 6:49 PM:

" My what a hornet's nest. All I know is that Mr. Ogle better hope he's wrong, or all that claptrap he's spilling will put him on the top of the list of enemies of the state. You'd better hope big brother ISN'T watching... or reading... "

Just a Soldier wrote on Nov 19, 2008 7:54 PM:

" Well, Locke, if we can't call him a socialist, can we at least call him a facist, which Meriam-Webster defines as "a political philosophy, movement, or regime (as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual(spread the wealth around) and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation [again,spreading the wealth around and taxing coal companies into bankruptcy], and forcible suppression of opposition[fairness doctrine].

Now, dance, liberal, dance. Tell me that I can't call him a facist because... well, I honestly don't see how you spin this one, but I am anxiously awaiting. "

Stanley Stetson wrote on Nov 19, 2008 9:46 PM:

" * where's my potter fodder * i need some yellow cake my little infidel libtard * "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Nov 19, 2008 9:52 PM:

" Locke, it's not surprise that you awash yourself in such lofty abstract ideals that once again you don't see the the whole picture.

But okay.... I'll bite....

a) any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods

Let's see... democrats support unions. Unions skew wages and benefits so that the cost of labor impacts the revenue of labor (note the US auto industry) currently. Carter cleans up private industry's pollution under the guise of the "Superfund". Socialism-yup, check. US Government subsidizes agriculture, aircraft, automobile industry, and now the mortgage industry. Socialism-yup, check, check.

B). system of society or group living in which there is no private property

The Supreme under Clinton legislates from the bench to increase the power of eminent domain. Socialism-yup, check, check, check. Government through Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac "own/insure" all American mortgages. Socialism-yup, check, check, check, check.

C). system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state

See the answer for a) above. Because the US government bails out the auto industry, subsidizes other industries, (and now other sectors want bailed out) it hides waste, inefficiency, non-productivity and mis-management in this industries. It also digresses the natural distribution of resources toward nationalistic endeavors and that's how we got WWI and WWII.

D). stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

Shoot... this is ya'll's argument about the current state of the US right now. Do I even need to address this?????
Socialism-yup, check, check, check, check, check.

"Obama wants to raise the taxes on the rich and give to the poor". Socialism-yup, check, check, check, check, check, check.

Hey....thanks for proving my point!

No one but you is saying that "Lincoln, Roosevelt, and Reagan (are) socialists.

So it's apparent to me now that you equate Obama to Reagan(and conservativism)...cool....welcome to "the club" - nobody is listening to you anymore.

I can see the steam rolling from your ears from here. :)

Shall we continue? "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 20, 2008 12:03 AM:

" Wow, it looks like the Obama haters on here can't make up their minds. One day Obama is a socialist, the next day he's a communist, and now someone is calling him a Fascist. You guys need to get together and vote on what you think he is. "

HeinekenMan wrote on Nov 20, 2008 5:43 AM:

" There is quite a difference between a socialist society and social programs. One can be defined as 'socialism" in the small "S" sense. But not socialism as a controlling ideology that defines everything a country does. Lending my neighbor a cup of sugar might be considered socialism. But it doesn't make my entire city socialist. I chose to offer my neighbor that cup of sugar. In this country, we choice to offer retirees social security. We give children the right to attend schools. And, like it or not, we chose to elect Barack Obama to lead the country. If he opts for a few social programs, it's a choice that we made as a country. If you don't like that, I suggest you quit your belly-ache and run for office or find a way to elect someone who doesn't share sugar with anyone. "

The Question wrote on Nov 20, 2008 7:45 AM:

" Best line overheard about the stock market crash: "This is worse than a divorce. I've lost half my net worth and still have a wife." "

father bob wrote on Nov 20, 2008 9:19 AM:

" Stanley Stetson wrote on Nov 19, 2008 6:38 PM:
" * you've just witnessed a hostile takeover of your own bias, bob * you should really give up the ghost * thanks for playing along dimwit * getting your goat sure is fun and refreshing for a change * there's hope for you yet libtard * """"
___________

but you my friend are the goat. you've shown all your racial hatred which, once again, came from nowhere.

using GOP logic, you are a terrorist and al qaeda sympathizer. since al qaeda has used the same innuendo, you MUST be an associate.

some icing for your yellowcake. "

father bob wrote on Nov 20, 2008 9:20 AM:

" BIG News:

Obama won. "

father bob wrote on Nov 20, 2008 10:25 AM:

" gotta love it!!

It appears in this video that President Bush's approval is in a sorrier state than polls indicate. In a video taken at the G20 summit, Bush walks across a line of world leaders without shaking or being asked to shake any of their hands. Whether the President is being rejected by the world leaders or he is rejecting them, CNN's Rick Sanchez aptly says that Bush looks like "the most unpopular kid in high school that nobody liked."

http://tinyurl.com/5sshr2 "

Cognitus wrote on Nov 20, 2008 11:22 AM:

" Medic:"Going to umpteen colleges before you get a bachelors degree does not make you any dumber than the guy who got his at Harvard, it probably just means you didn't have as much money."
I think anybody from Alaska who goes to the Univ of Hawaii and then flips to another school every year must have LOTS of money.
But Medic, if you were going to have open heart surgery (are YOU really an MD?) would you prefer a surgeon who was so unsettled he/she went to 5 different medical schools or one that graduated from Harvard Medical School???????? "

Cognitus wrote on Nov 20, 2008 11:42 AM:

" ed miller:"Well, he is right about judges legislating from the bench. We've had that problem for years now."
Ahhhhh. Count on ed to flop down into the comfortable bed of a hackneyed conservative principle.
Unfortunately when those dunderheads wrote the Constitution, they did not think to include laws on the internet, nor did they think abortion was a problem they wanted to settle, even ignored gay marriage. [When Alexander Hamilton was asked why God was not mentioned in the Constitution, his sarcastic reply was, "We forgot it".] Accordingly judges have to write decisions which they feel are CONSISTENT with the Constution.
Your phrase "legislating from the bench" first arose, I think, (since I lived in the south at the time of Brown v. Bd of Ed) re the end of segregation.
Everyone "knew" that blacks are inferior so anything that improves their status was "LEGISLATING FROM THE BENCH" -- I read this outrageous claim in letters to the editor day after day in Virginia, 50 years ago and its use still irritates me.
"Legislating from the bench" is a phrase that is used by people who do not understand the legal system, are pixxed off by a decision, cannot think of an intelligent way to oppose it, so limp into "legislating from the bench".
DROP IT!!!!!!!!!!! "

The Question wrote on Nov 20, 2008 11:59 AM:

" The Bush Republican legacy: an America buried under mortgage and credit card debt and a blown-out economy, with looming mass unemployment AND hyper-inflation. "

Cognitus wrote on Nov 20, 2008 12:06 PM:

" NeoCon writes:"Teddy was a progressive and got booted from the Republican Party ...."
Not so.
In the 1912 Republican primaries, Roosevelt got 1.2 million popular votes and Taft got .8 million.
Roosevelt had 432 delegates; Taft had
326.
However, many states did not have primaries and there were 254 contested delegates. Naturally the Taft people, who controlled the machinery of the convention, stole most of those, so
Taft won the nomination.
In the popular vote of the November election, Wilson got 6.3 million, Roosevelt got 4.1 million and Taft got 3.5 million.
So it was Taft who was repudiated by the people who were Republicans before he stirred things up by stealing the nomination. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Nov 20, 2008 12:53 PM:

" This current Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac economy is the result of the Democrats fraudulent banking practices and reckless pursuit of self-serving interests. And thanks to the blithering ignorance of a mostly ill-informed pop-culture mentality in this country; these same corrupt lawmakers have been given carte blanche control of the nations economy with virtually unlimited legislative power. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Nov 20, 2008 12:56 PM:

" When the people find they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic.

-Benjamin Franklin "

father bob wrote on Nov 20, 2008 1:11 PM:

" Obama just cancelled christmas..... "

red,white,blue wrote on Nov 20, 2008 2:16 PM:

" Cognitus: I'm curious. What do you call it then when a state votes, not once but twice, to ban gay marriage and a couple of judges overturn the first vote of the majority of the people and are now threatening to overturn the second vote stating the will of the people? "

The Question wrote on Nov 20, 2008 2:38 PM:

" " Cognitus: I'm curious. What do you call it then when a state votes, not once but twice, to ban gay marriage and a couple of judges overturn the first vote of the majority of the people and are now threatening to overturn the second vote stating the will of the people? "
----
If marriage is in fact a right, then it is NOT subject to the prejudices and the whims of any majority. Rights are "inalienable," remember? "

father bob wrote on Nov 20, 2008 3:16 PM:

" i see Bush is staging an 11th hour attempt to eliminate the Endangered Species Act.

i remember the bald eagle almost extinct until the act was passed.

more dishonor and damage proposed.....probably wanted to be a bigshot with his hunting buddies.

SOMEONE Please find a jigsaw puzzle for the moron!!......is it January yet???? "

sapient wrote on Nov 20, 2008 3:39 PM:

" When did marriage become a right? The same mythical article as the right to an abortion? "

bailey7677 wrote on Nov 20, 2008 4:12 PM:

" To all right wingers:
If Republicans are so good, why are they against everything good? For example, Democrats are for civil rights, are good to the poor, pro-union, and pro-choice. Republicans get in there and only say they care, but never do anything. Then some guy writes a letter and blames Obama when he hasn't done anything yet. I think these people can't stand it that Obama is a black man that is more intelligent then most of us. "

redwhiteblue wrote on Nov 20, 2008 4:27 PM:

red,white,blue wrote on Nov 20, 2008 4:31 PM:

" TQ: I did not know you and Cognitus were one and the same. Interesting. Sapient: You didn't know that marriage is not only a right but it's also a whim according to that great sage, you know, the one with all the answers. "

Stanley Stetson wrote on Nov 20, 2008 4:50 PM:

" * baa baa baa bailey * continue drinking your kool-aid libtard * i heard you wouldn't vote for mccain because he's white and more intelligent then most of us * "

father bob wrote on Nov 20, 2008 4:52 PM:

" sapient wrote on Nov 20, 2008 3:39 PM:
" When did marriage become a right?""""
___________

you mean you don't have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness?

yeah i guess you have a point there, marriage and happiness???....ugh "

ed miller wrote on Nov 20, 2008 6:21 PM:

" Hey Bailey,

You forgot to mention Republicans are also in favor of slaughtering cute puppies and kittens. "

Cognitus wrote on Nov 20, 2008 7:15 PM:

" Stanley Stetson:" i heard you wouldn't vote for mccain because he's white and more intelligent then most of us"
Shhh. Stanley was in a drunken stupor
all fall. He doesn't know that McCain graduated in the BOTTOM 1% OF HIS CLASS AT THE NAVAL ACADEMY.
...or maybe Stanley himself is a bit light back of his forehead.... "

Cognitus wrote on Nov 20, 2008 7:22 PM:

" medic 57:"he could have went to Harvard? If it takes a major college to be smart,"
Well obviously medic has not been to either: "he could have WENT". "

Cognitus wrote on Nov 20, 2008 7:34 PM:

" father bob:"i remember the bald eagle almost extinct until the act was passed.

more dishonor and damage proposed.....probably wanted to be a bigshot with his hunting buddies.

SOMEONE Please find a jigsaw puzzle for the moron!!......is it January yet???? "

Indeed. And the most outrageous environmental action yet is the sale of thousands of acres in Utah to his oil and gas buddies on December 19th, hurrying to give away OUR resources to his drinkin' buddies. If you've ever visited Arches/Canyonlands National Parks, and see what this will do to them, then you know that George would sell drilling rights on his grandmother's grave. "

Cognitus wrote on Nov 20, 2008 7:42 PM:

" RedWBlue:" TQ: I did not know you and Cognitus were one and the same. Interesting. "
RWB should get a job on one of the cop
TV shows.
But sorry to say I'm not TQ and don't even know who he/she is, but s/he must be quite intelligent for I find that I often agree with him/her and sometimes he/her even agrees with me.
So there. Turn in your Dick Tracy badge now. "

Stanley Stetson wrote on Nov 20, 2008 9:38 PM:

" father bob wrote on Nov 20, 2008 9:20 AM:
" BIG News:

Obama won. "

* i'll try and remember that as I look at this, libtard *

http://tinyurl.com/r6wun "

The Question wrote on Nov 20, 2008 10:14 PM:

" "You forgot to mention Republicans are also in favor of slaughtering cute puppies and kittens."
----
Well, since your great savior the Moose Queen likes to pose on television in front of birds being slaughtered, it really wouldn't surprise me. "

red,white,blue wrote on Nov 20, 2008 10:42 PM:

" It was a joke Cognitus but like most libs you appear to have no sense of humor. Do I need to explain to you that I asked you the question (no pun intended) and TQ responded. Guess it was a little too subtle for you. "

red,white,blue wrote on Nov 20, 2008 10:47 PM:

" bailey666: you need to stop drinking the kool-aid and get off those left-wing websites. You also forgot to mention that Republicans are homophobic, sexist, racists as well. If the democrats were truly for the poor and downtrodden then they would not promote an agenda that keeps people in their place and dependent on them but would try to give people a hand-up. Or as they say, a leg-up and not a handout. "

XTownie wrote on Nov 21, 2008 2:37 AM:

" BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Nov 20, 2008 12:53 PM:

" This current Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac economy is the result of the Democrats fraudulent banking practices and reckless pursuit of self-serving interests. And thanks to the blithering ignorance of a mostly ill-informed pop-culture mentality in this country; these same corrupt lawmakers have been given carte blanche control of the nations economy with virtually unlimited legislative power. "

Wow! You really need to get out a little more instead of listening to Limbaugh, Hannity and Fox News for your information. "

The Question wrote on Nov 21, 2008 4:55 AM:

" Think of all the little right wingers who voted for Bush, slobbering at the thought that they would get rich through tax cuts and capital gains just like the plutocrats they worship.
Now they're watching their portfolios shrink to nothing and their jobs disappear. Why is it that such greedy people make such bad investments with their votes? "

Early Bird wrote on Nov 21, 2008 5:25 AM:

" I see our old friend Doh is back and as usual has started his old everyone who disagrees with him is the same person game again. Seriously Doh, you're not fooling anyone, and all of your pseudonyms are quite recognizable.

Welcome back, Doh. lol.... "

The Question wrote on Nov 21, 2008 7:32 AM:

" While they were busy destroying the world economy with their fraud, CEOs of large home-building and financial-services firms each hauled in more than $100 million in cash and stock sales during the past five years. Those are Wall Street Journal figures. Four of those executives, including the heads of Lehman Brothers Holdings Inc. and Bear Stearns Cos., ran companies that have filed for bankruptcy protection or have seen their share prices fall more than 90 percent.
If the rest of the country ran that way, we'd let the people who write bad checks right out of jail and give them all sports cars and pleasure boats. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 21, 2008 7:47 AM:

" Sorry about that last spelling, Doh. "

The Question wrote on Nov 21, 2008 10:52 AM:

" I sense a kind of right-wing despair in the atmosphere here lately, don't you? They and their pals at Fox News have, after all, failed so miserably, blatantly and abjectly to derail President-Elect Obama and to keep congressional Republicans from being kicked out into the gutter on their overpaid, well-bribed butts.
How embarrassing for them.
They seem to be quite despondent, splashing their flop sweat everywhere these days. "

sapient wrote on Nov 21, 2008 10:54 AM:

" FB: Marriage and happiness the same? It is for me, but with the divorce rate what it is it certainly must not be for half the population. "

maiamcknight wrote on Nov 21, 2008 12:39 PM:

" I truely believe that the new president is handling his new role better that any one of us who is writing to this column!! It is time out to say what he can and cannot do for this country. It cannot get any worse than it already is! If you have something negative to say about him, before you do, take a look back and think to yourself. Where were you when it was time to run for president? Why wasn't your name on the ballot? Kind of makes me say "HUH?" "

father bob wrote on Nov 21, 2008 2:25 PM:

" sapient wrote on Nov 21, 2008 10:54 AM:
" FB: Marriage and happiness the same? It is for me, but with the divorce rate what it is it certainly must not be for half the population. """"
____________

sapient, you would know a joke if someone slapped you in the face with a dead fish. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 21, 2008 2:44 PM:

" I guess you need to listen to Limbaugh and Hannity more, TQ. According to their delusional thinking, the slumping economy is now Obama's fault. LOL!

Funny how Bush's miserable failures have been foisted off onto Obama, in their convoluted little brains, even before he takes office.

And you're right about the GOP and especially their water carriers at Fox news, they, like the right wingers on this site are having difficulty accepting America's rejection of Republican politics.

Poor Neo is about to have a stroke. LOL! "

bailey7677 wrote on Nov 21, 2008 3:35 PM:

" To Red,White,Blue:
Your not even smart enough to get my username right. You truly are a conservative. "

The Question wrote on Nov 21, 2008 6:06 PM:

" No time for one of Bush's many month-long vacations now, and more's the pity. He's busy signing "midnight deregulations" so that industries that have bribed Republicans can poison our air and water. And he's also got to prepare for the tidal wave of pardons he will have to issue to the many torturers and other criminals in his administration, including himself.
The poor man. A fascist's work is never done. "

sapient wrote on Nov 21, 2008 6:39 PM:

" Sorry FB. Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha "

father bob wrote on Nov 21, 2008 7:10 PM:

" guess i'm showing my age...no one got the dead fish thing. "

injustice85 wrote on Nov 21, 2008 7:18 PM:

" fair enough sapient, there seems to be a misconception to whether Bush really won or not but the past is the past and the future is now, the good news is that Obama is the only president or will be to have a background in economics, he minored in economics at Harvard, hopefully he uses that knowledge wisely "

HeinekenMan wrote on Nov 21, 2008 11:34 PM:

" I'm not sure Obama's minor in economics is going to be of much value. It's not as if he has a master's degree. A few courses in a field doesn't make a person an expert, and there are lots of experts who disagree about the facts when it comes to the U.S. economy.

Obama, though, has the benefit of a middle-class upbringing. He's been there, and he seems to understand the struggle of regular working-class people. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 22, 2008 9:19 AM:

" Wait a minute, doesn't Bush have an MBA from Harvard? A lot of good that did! "

The Question wrote on Nov 22, 2008 10:04 AM:

" Murdoch kisses Obama's backside with his rag newspapers, all while having his fat stooge Roger Ailes attack Obama savagely on Fox News and pretending he knows nothing about it.
That might just fool someone as stupid as Bush or Palin, but it won't fool President Obama. "

Locke wrote on Nov 22, 2008 2:37 PM:

" Lincoln, Roosevelt, and Reagan all supported socialist policies as per the definition to which has been applied to Obama. You call Obama a socialist; you are calling those three socialists.

No need to continue, talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. You are simply too partisan to admit the GOP presidents have supported socialist policies, especially when the current code-word for Obama is socialism.

We'll just play your game, Obama is a socialist because you say so. Lincoln, Reagan, and Roosevelt did not have socialist policies because you say so. What is the color the sky? If you say purple, well by God, it is purple then.

Who needs logic when we have you? "

medic57 wrote on Nov 22, 2008 6:14 PM:

" GOP has a filibuster if they so desire btw.

maybe, the dems have 58 senators right now, with 2 races still being counted. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Nov 22, 2008 7:03 PM:

" Cognitus wrote....

" NeoCon writes:"Teddy was a progressive and got booted from the Republican Party ...."
Not so."
--------

NO...that's true, you dope. I know my history....

And ya know... if you are going to keep "spinning" facts maybe you should enroll in a debate or logic course...to at least to keep the argumentative premise straight.....

Did Taft ever enter the premise of my argument? No.

My argument's premise suggested that TR was at odds with the "Republican", regardless of the means, by "being booted". By inference their was issue with TR versus the establishment.

But if you'd like for me to start sourcing APA style though, and speak less figuratively, I can surely do that. It wasn't too long ago, however, that I was chastised for my articulation. So which do you want?

So to get back to the original premise....TR was a "progressive" and at odds with the establishment. You even reiterated it with what you posted, you dope.

But it's good that you checked the facts...keep doing it....you're well on your way to becoming a conservative...

So stop attempting to "be cute" and win points with your liberal clones on here by fact spinning or spinning my argument.... "

Cognitus wrote on Nov 22, 2008 10:46 PM:

" "Many of you are scratching your head and saying how did this happen."
Maybe they should try another shampoo...
This guy has been smelling the fruitcake. "

Cognitus wrote on Nov 22, 2008 10:54 PM:

" " Cognitus: I'm curious. What do you call it then when a state votes, not once but twice, to ban gay marriage and a couple of judges overturn the first vote of the majority of the people and are now threatening to overturn the second"

The same thing I thought when judges in
the south had to tell the citizens time after time that Brown v Bd of Ed was THE law of the land.
The same thing I think when folks, time after time, defy the courts and try to put creationism in biology courses. "

Cognitus wrote on Nov 22, 2008 10:59 PM:

" "The poor man. A fascist's work is never done."
The Question has a great sense of humor;
wish I had said that!!!!! Great!!!!!

But I would like to add the thousands of oil/gas leases he's going to give away in Utah, desecrating Arches & Canyonlands National Parks. This guy would lease his
grandmother's grave. "

The Question wrote on Nov 23, 2008 9:45 AM:

" Thanks, Cognitus. I always enjoy your posts.
Listening to NPR one morning, I heard them discussing North Korea, asking a graphic artist who'd worked there if the people actually believed all the BS in the controlled news media. The artist said the leader keeps the populace frightened by constant threats of war.
The wonder of it all was that the interview was conducted without irony, as if things are so vastly different here.
Remember the network reporter in Iraq who asked the father of a child who'd his limbs blown off if the
child realized the importance of the issues that caused the war?
We are all North Koreans now. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 23, 2008 10:23 AM:

" Fox comedy/news now has a count down for the number of days left for us to have to "put up" with Obama. You would have thought they would have waited until he actually took office. But I suppose because it was a hostile takeover... LOL! "

The Question wrote on Nov 23, 2008 10:30 AM:

" "But I would like to add the thousands of oil/gas leases he's going to give away in Utah, desecrating Arches & Canyonlands National Parks. This guy would lease his grandmother's grave. "
----
"Donchu pay them bones no never-mind, boys! Drill baby drill!" "

medic57 wrote on Nov 23, 2008 1:59 PM:

" I thought they closed Ashmore estates.

Nope, it's a haunted house now. "

medic57 wrote on Nov 23, 2008 2:01 PM:

" Thank God that we will be seeing a "change in America as we used to know it." No more policies based on fear, hate or greed.

Susan

Do you really believe that? You think the Dems in power will really be any different than the Republicans in power were. "

shumphreys wrote on Nov 23, 2008 7:15 PM:

" Medic I made the comment quite a while ago that I was afraid that the Dems would succumb to the same Hubris that felled the Repubs. So far so good, no great strides, but no great screw ups. I am referring to the Dems takeover of Congress after the previous election, not the recent one. Only time will tell. I am content to give them a chance, I can always skewer them later. Unlike some of you I won't have any problem admitting that I was wrong, IF I should turn out to be wrong. Which as I said, only TIME will tell. "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 23, 2008 7:55 PM:

" Off the Net:

Sarah Palin's John Birch Society Moment
In the wake of the revelation that in 1995 Sarah Palin's reading materials included a copy of the John Birch Society Magazine, it seems to me that the media and intellectually honest conservatives should take another look at her ties with the pro-secessionist and Bircher sympathetic Alaskan Independence Party (AIP).

Even though Sarah Palin was not an AIP member, her husband Todd was a registered member from 1995-2002. Moreover, in 2000 Sarah Palin attended an AIP convention, and in 2006 and 2008 Palin recorded a video greeting for the AIP convention. Until it became a major campaign issue, members of the AIP said they had seen both Palins at party meetings in the mid-1990s.

---------------------

Is Palin secretly a member of the John Birch society, as well as possibly being a member of the AIP?

I'm starting to get an idea as to why Neo was so infatuated with the little right wing fruitcake, Sara(h). "

The Question wrote on Nov 23, 2008 8:30 PM:

" Here's the great Republican Party brain trust Bill Kristol just before the invasion of Iraq:
"The war itself will clarify who was right and who was wrong about weapons of mass destruction. It will reveal the aspirations of the people of Iraq, and expose the truth about Saddam's regime. It will produce whatever effects it will produce on neighboring countries and on the broader war on terror. We would note now that even the threat of war against Saddam seems to be encouraging stirrings toward political reform in Iran and Saudi Arabia, and a measure of cooperation in the war against al Qaeda from other governments in the region. It turns out it really is better to be respected and feared than to be thought to share, with exquisite sensitivity, other people's pain. History and reality are about to weigh in, and we are inclined simply to let them render their verdicts."
Those verdicts have been rendered, and that is why you Republicans have been pitched out into the gutter, where you belong. "

injustice85 wrote on Nov 24, 2008 5:42 PM:

" a minor in economics isn't much but I think Obama uses what he has learned in life wisely, he is a thinker and it's a darn good thing, I think the only thing Bush thought about in office was....well I'll get back to you on that one! "

shumphreys wrote on Nov 24, 2008 6:28 PM:

" Injustice85 I don't think this site will allow you to expand your idea any further! I'm not sure Bush ever really, seriously thinks about anything. "

The Question wrote on Nov 25, 2008 5:13 AM:

" Hey, somebody ask Bush, McCain and Paulson - are those "fundamentals of the economy" still "sound?" Give us the benefit of that great Republican economic wisdom again. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Nov 25, 2008 11:33 AM:

" (Hey, somebody ask Bush, McCain and Paulson - are those "fundamentals of the economy" still "sound?" Give us the benefit of that great Republican economic wisdom again.)

Good news, Question, Bawny Fwanks Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid (Sounds like an adult film cast doesn't it) just said their bailout fundamentals are quite sound. Here's some of their great Democorrupt economic wisdom again:

Fed announces new U.S. mortgage-support program

WASHINGTON, Nov 25 (Reuters) - The U.S. Federal Reserve, in another massive life-support intervention for the U.S. financial system, on Tuesday announced a $600 billion program to buy mortgage-related debt and securities and a $200 billion facility to buy consumer debt securities,

The U.S. central bank said it would buy up to $100 billion in debt issued by Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and the Federal Home Loan Banks, the government-sponsored mortgage finance enterprises.

The Fed also said it would buy up to $500 billion in mortgage-backed securities backed by Fannie Mae, Freddie Mac, and Ginnie Mae. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Nov 25, 2008 12:12 PM:

" Uh-oh.

Obama's Uncle Wackadoodle sends a warning

Jeremiah Wright apparently has no intention of going away quietly. The former pastor of president-elect Barack Obama tells the Chicago Tribune about the hurt feelings from the presidential campaign and how his former congregant didnt even bother to inform him personally about being tossed under the bus. Wright warns Obama that he wont cut him any slack, either:

Watching the election returns on TVWright was apparently not invited to the Grant Park rallywas somewhat bittersweet, he told Sirius XM Radio host Mark Thompson.

It was like a mixed bag of being proud of him and being blessed to have lived to see something my parents would never have believed was going to happen while at the same time having been put up as the whipping boy by the media to be the weapon of mass destruction to destroy his candidacy, he said.

Though he hopes to talk with Obama again once he leaves office, he also said he wont hold back in criticizing Obamas administration.

Ive already told . . . Obama: On Nov. 5, Im coming after you, he said. Its not you the person . . . its the policies of this country. And as long as you are presiding over policies that grind Gods people into the earth, Im coming after you."

Uncle Wackadoodle didn't get invited to Grant Park? Wasnt that an open event? "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Nov 25, 2008 12:13 PM:

" " Hey, somebody ask Bush, McCain and Paulson - are those "fundamentals of the economy" still "sound?" Give us the benefit of that great Republican economic wisdom again. "
_______

Yeah, their about as sound as Barney Fwank, Maxine Waters, Gregory Meeks, Franklin Gaines, and Christopher Dodd saying that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are sound... "

injustice85 wrote on Nov 25, 2008 3:23 PM:

" shumphreys wrote on Nov 24, 2008 6:28 PM:

" Injustice85 I don't think this site will allow you to expand your idea any further! I'm not sure Bush ever really, seriously thinks about anything. "

well when you're right your right huh lol, I heard some "republicans" on t.v. yesterday criticizing Obama and his economic plans saying that the last thing we want to do is increase government spending, last I knew was that increasing government spending was the way to get out of recession, where will he get the money they ask...probably China like every other time we've needed money lol "

Harry Potter wrote on Nov 25, 2008 6:49 PM:

" Yeah, their about as sound as Barney Fwank, Maxine Waters, Gregory Meeks, Franklin Gaines, and Christopher Dodd saying that Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are sound...

-------------------

Now who was it whining about people playing gotcha? LOL! Glass houses and stones maybe? "

The Question wrote on Nov 26, 2008 8:17 AM:

" The economic "solution," according to Fox News and the Republicans, will be for all American workers to earn subsistence wages while being employed by billionaires before whom they cower in fear.
No more of that uppity nonsense about an educated middle class. You'll learn to lick boots for bread. That's what fascism is all about, folks. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Nov 26, 2008 12:57 PM:

" (You'll learn to lick boots for bread. That's what fascism is all about, folks.)

Actually Question, as long as Bawney Fwank is chairman of the House Financial Services Committee, this country will have to lick Bawney's (choose your own metaphor) for all our bread. That's what your fascist Democrats are all about, Question. "

The Question wrote on Nov 26, 2008 1:35 PM:

" Al Qaeda is on the same page as the Republican Party. They're both whining about "pro-Obama" news coverage. LOL. "

The Question wrote on Nov 26, 2008 5:17 PM:

" I take it from your typewritten lisp about Barney Frank that you have some problem with gay people, Bluesy. Is that right? "

Mr. Right wrote on Nov 28, 2008 10:45 AM:

" Question . . . the Bawney Fwank is not a lisp - it's a speech impediment.
Even if it were a lisp, what would that have to do with homosexuality. What does manner of speech have to do with sexual preference? A little touchy, are we? Looking for a little something to pounce on??????

Relax - BOTH sides jump on nothing when they have nothing to jump on. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Nov 28, 2008 3:58 PM:

" You seem to be hyper-sensitive about homosexuality, Question. Are you normally this paranoid? Or are you trying to tell us something? "

injustice85 wrote on Nov 28, 2008 5:00 PM:

" way to stay on target folks "

The Question wrote on Nov 30, 2008 2:23 AM:

" "Or are you trying to tell us something? "
---
I'm trying to tell you that you that by using derisive gay stereotypes like your exaggerated typewritten lisp, you are proclaiming your problem with gay people, and I'd like to know just what it is. "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Dec 1, 2008 9:25 AM:

" (I'm trying to tell you that you that by using derisive gay stereotypes like your exaggerated typewritten lisp, you are proclaiming your problem with gay people, and I'd like to know just what it is.)

What "exaggerated typewritten lisp", Question?

I typed Bawney Fwank's, Elmer Fudd syndrome, not a lisp. In fact, I've never noticed Bawney Fwank lisping, have you, Question? Or is Elmer Fudd gay?

Are you trying to tell us something, Question? "

Harry Potter wrote on Dec 2, 2008 11:55 AM:

" Now Bush is saying it's all about poor intelligence. Maybe Doh needs to tell him about all of that yellow cake. hee hee "

BlueDogDemocrat wrote on Dec 2, 2008 3:10 PM:

" Don't look now Harry!

Obama's UN Envoy Got Iraq War Wrong

Obama's nominee (Dr. Susan Rice) to serve as the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, had this to say February, 2003:

"I think he [Powell] has proved that Iraq has these weapons and is hiding them," said Rice, a former Clinton administration State Department aide, "and I don't think many informed people doubted that."

Oh my. It looks like Obama's U.N. ambassador LIED about those silly WMD.

From The Huffington Post (so it's gotta be true!)

LOL! "