" Republicans may have lost the battle of 2008, but they won the war.


The election of Mr. Obama proves that anyone can live the American dream. A biracial product of a dysfunctional family overcame obstacles to finish high school, graduate from college, graduate from law school, become a professional, marry another professional, raise a family, hold a state office, become elected to the United States Senate, and now become the next President of the United States.

I doubt if his supporters understand the law of unintended consequences.

Minorities can no longer use their skin color to explain personal shortcomings such as unemployment, failure to pay child support, failure to obey the social contract, or criminal activity.

Abraham Lincoln would be happy to see the final product of the Civil War. "

" I watched Karl Rove on Fox news (of course) give his analysis of of Obama's victory last night. Surprisingly, he conceded that the Obama camp ran a brilliant campaign, strategically. The funny part was that he never mentioned that this election was a repudiation of the policies of the last 8 years.

All of the mud, rumors, and outright lies told about Obama failed to matter in the end. The same goes for the scare tactics being pushed to their faithful flock by the likes of the whiny Sean Hannity and the gasbag Limbaugh.

The election was an indictment of Republican style politics. The majority of people, from all over he land spoke and said we have had enough of this of these failed policies.

And of course the selection of Sara(h)
as his running mate didn't help McCain.
Her negative poll numbers were rising faster than the Mississippi river in the spring time. In another week or so her negatives would have equaled those of George Bush.

Did anyone happen to catch Tom Delay on CNBC last night. The currently indicted Delay acted rather delusional, and as usual was spouting total nonsense.

It's obvious that poor old Tom misses the limelight and being able to dole out money under the table to those fellow congressmen who went along with his attempts to keep the wages down in sweat shops in several American territories, for campaign contributions, lavish golf trips to Scotland and all sorts of payoffs.

If only those Swiss banks would talk.

Speaking of indicted politicians, I see those wacky Alaskans are going with their indicted bridge to nowhere crook too. The air must be pretty thin up there, considering the popularity of their no nothing ignorant governor and now an indicted senator. "

" Now who was it that said my friend cd, should start practicing saying Mr President, Barack Obama? Oh yeah, it was me. LOL! "

" The victory of Barack Obama in Coles County was quite historic in and of itself.
This is only the fourth time in the past two thirds of a century that Coles County has voted for a Democratic candidate for president. The other three times were Lyndon Johnson in 1964 and Bill Clinton in 1992 and 1996. However, those two victories were largely because the conservative vote was split by the third party candidacy of Ross Perot. (Coles County did NOT vote for Franklin D. Roosevelt in 1944, nor Harry Truman in 1948, nor John Kennedy in 1960, nor any of the other Democrats who have run in the past 67 years, except for the ones I mentioned.) "

" We should all thank God that the American public overwhelmingly selected the right man for the time, Obama, and not for 4 more years with the continuation of the failed Bush policies, or even worse, 4 years with the ignorant Sara(h) Falin in such a powerful position, as next in line to the the president. Hopefully we have heard the last of that lightweight loser. "

" Next stop for Sara(h); the Jerry Springer show. Watch for it.... "

" I am proud that history was made and look forward to Obama carrying the torch forward. It should be an interesting period and period for great potential. Even though I do not agree with the Democrats ideas on many things, I do think Obama may be the right guy for the time at hand.

I used to enjoy reading other's opinions here and some of those actually challenged my own thought processes. However, Harry Potter and a few others need to just shut up if they can not say anything constructive. And I have very rarely read anything constructive from that particular self-ordained expert on everything. Get over it. Quit pointing fingers and dishing insults. Both parties have a lot of dirt bags and look out for their own self interests. They should all be held accountable

As for Harry's comments regarding Sarah Palin, I would love to see how well you are perceived if thrown into the limelight with very little notice and asked to speak to millions about topics that, as Governor, you really had no experience with. I would say she cuaght on rather well, and I think we will all be surprised in years to come. "

" Well spoken TJ's Dad! Yes, Coles county surprised me also, but the other counties were not a surprise. Did not matter that those other counties voted for McCain because Illinois is always BLUE! "

" There were no lies told about Obama, its just most people are to gullable to see the picture and capture the truth when it is put in front of them.

About the only thing Obama is qualified at is, the Gift of Gab, which only people who are followers in this country would fall for. I guess when people start losing their jobs to the 20 million illegals Obama will give amnesty to, then I can say "I told you so". Hopefully Obama will do more than chase women around the whitehouse while terrorists are coming across the borders building cells and planning their next attack on America like Clinton let them do.

The other good thing is, we don't have to listen to those whining democrats blaming Bush anymore. "

" The other good thing is, we don't have to listen to those whining democrats blaming Bush anymore.

----------------------

Uh... would that be like those whining repuglicrites blaming Clinton for everything? LOL!

Oh no, we aren't through with those reprobates, Bush and Cheney, not for a long time. The antics of those two have given me a lot of ideas for future posts. So get used to the idea. Set back and enjoy, sam adams and warrior. Better, and a heck of a lot smarter, people than you two have tried to shut me up, and just as you will, they failed. "

" There were no lies told about Obama.........

-------

I nominate this comment as the most ignorant remark of the day. "

" So no lies were told about Obama, "warrior?" What a laugh.
You right-wing scum called him "a thug," "a radical," "uppity," "a commie," "a Muslim," "a traitor," "dangerous," "a socialist," "a Marxist," a terrorist," "a race baiter, "a Nazi appeaser," "an angry black man," and "a guy who pals around with terrorists."
What a ridiculous joke you people are. Your day is done. Blow away. "

" "As for Harry's comments regarding Sarah Palin, I would love to see how well you are perceived if thrown into the limelight with very little notice and asked to speak to millions about topics that, as Governor, you really had no experience with."
---
The moose moron Palin wasn't "thrown into the limelight." She jumped in eagerly in a grab for power, and revealed herself to be an ignoramus. Her national political career is finished, because she is too clueless to survive a presidential primary.
Look at the poll numbers She drove college-educated Americans away from the Republican Party by the millions.
By the way, I heard her say yesterday that she prayed to God to give her the vice presidency. What happened with that? I guess God wasn't so impressed by the Moose Queen's self-serving piety, eh? "

" As for Harry's comments regarding Sarah Palin, I would love to see how well you are perceived if thrown into the limelight with very little notice and asked to speak to millions about topics that, as Governor, you really had no experience with. I would say she caught on rather well, and I think we will all be surprised in years to come. "

-------------------

Apparently my comments went over your head, sam. But without realizing it, you actually confirmed a point I have been making for weeks on here. She had no experience that would qualify her for VP. Thanks for making my point, sam.

As to her future, I too hope she sticks around. She is such an easy target and she can keep us in stitches for years to come with her ignorant comments and totally dysfunctional family antics. The same goes for the first dud, Todd, and the self promoting Joe the plumber's gofer/helper. Those three morons are the new face of the GOP! All of you right leaning republicrites should be so proud. LOL! "

" Pssssst, hey Warrior:

"Investigative journalists Donald L. Barlett and James B. Steele estimates in Time magazine in its September 12, 2004 issue,(wasn't that Bush's 4th year?) that the number of illegal aliens entering into the U.S. that year will total 3 million/year enough to fill 22,000 Boeing 737-700 airliners, or 60 flights every day for a year.[7]

In 2006 legal immigrants to the United States now number approximately 1,000,000 legal immigrants per year of which about 600,000 are Change of Status immigrants who already are in the U.S. Legal immigrants to the United States are now at their highest level ever at over 35,000,000. Net advance by illegal aliens has also soared from about 130,000 per year in the 1970s, to 300,000+ per year in the 1980s to over 500,000 per year in the 1990s to over 700,000 per year in the 2000s"

So if the dems are so bad with border control, how come they INCREASED under Bush's term? (Oh, and don't tell anyone but McCain wanted to give them all amnesty too) "

" Isn't it a good thing...for those of you who are celebrating today...that Obama's mother didn't abort him? I guess while you are making your lists of thanks to God, you should include that one! "

" We really don't have to worry about the illegal immigration situation now. Due to Bush and Cheney running our economy into the ground they won't be coming here because there won't be any jobs left for them to come for. We might be hearing the Mexicans complain about us coming down there for jobs pretty soon. "

" Hooray, "the messiah" has been elected...

Per Obama's rhetoric and campaign promises, I can't wait to see...

...the white flag of surrender foisted over Iraq and Afghanistan. I encourage everyone to fly a white flag of surrender at their houses as a reminder of Obama's promise to bring the troops home .... If the troops aren't brought home soon, everyone start chanting, "Obama lied, people died, Obama lied, people died".

....FutureGen come to Coles County. Central Illinois deserves another government program to provide jobs just like with ADM that has made record profits off of government subsides for corn (making record profits off of government subsides is okay, but oil companies profits from the private sector is bad).

...repeal of the Patriot Act...(who needs it? the whole world loves us now)...

....repeal of the No Child Left Behind Act.....(remember how terrible we heard it was from the teacher's unions).

....repeal the Bush tax cuts. I'd like to see a "sin" tax enacted on all entertainment venues including movies, theater, and athletic events. Along with this, Oprah Winfrey, professional athletes, and Hollywood actors, should be double taxed. After all, as Joe Biden says...it's the "patriotic thing" to do...

....repeal of NAFTA and other world trade agreements to "protect" American jobs (show the world that we too can be as inefficient and non-productive as other workers in the world).

....raise the minimum wage to a minimum $10-$15 an hour (American workers are hurting, don't you know). (who cares if the AVERAGE wage in China is about $2/hour).

....give amnesty to illegal aliens, along with drivers license's and social security benefits.

...since 1 in 4 kids in the local downstate area are entitled to free lunches because they live at or near the US poverty level (as high if not higher that urban Chicago) let's see Obama spread the federal largess upon downstate poor kids (but don't hold your breath).

... and the end to Affirmative Action. Seems to me there's no need for it now. Looks like the "playing fields" been more than leveled. "

" Hey neocon, don worry 'boud it! The best man won! "

" Calm down NeoCon...have you considered switching to decaf, my friend? "

" " The election is finally over. Even though I didn't vote for him Obama will be my president too. I will pray for him and hope that the country will thrive under his leadership. I am glad to see that people of color will have a president to whom they can relate. I just wish it was a black person with a different political philosophy. I hope it works out. " "

" Don't forget hair flouncing. "

" The election is over and now we all will see what the president elect will do and not do. Both candidates made a lot of promises to the American people during their campaign knowing that they couldn't possibly keep them. They forget it takes congress to change things. The president can't change it by himself. The people voted for CHANGE so lets see if anything changes for the good of us, the average American.
We don't need to bash each other on this site, but sit back and watch what happens in the future. I doubt if most of you will like it unless you are just plain wanting to argue. But in my many years here on earth I have seen this great nation go to one that makes me ashamed. My ancestors didn't work, sweat and sometimes die in battle to see our country be destroyed from within. A lot of you need to go back and read your history of the founding of this United States and why people migrated here from across the oceans. (My ancestors were already here before the white man or immigrants came to our shores.)
The mainstream media was bias for Bema but that is normal for them. (No matter who you voted for)What the people need to do is research on their own and see what the truth really is. Dont rely on the media to give you the right information. They are only interested in selling newspapers, air time and making ratings. Not everything they reported about both candidates was true. But the American people are to lazy to do anything but sit back, watch TV or read the newspapers and some of them drink their alcohol and do their drugs. Its time to do away with political parties and go back to being OF THE PEOPLE, BY THE PEOPLE AND FOR THE PEOPLE
The main thing that is wrong with this country is that people dont want to work for their future. They want everything given to them. Either by those that work for something but mostly by the government. If they would do something about the welfare system they could save billions. Make those who are able to work get off their lazy a$$es and go to work and take care of their family instead of drawing our tax money for sitting around watching TV or buying drugs and alcohol. And as for the Spread the wealth around do those of us that work for our money to take care of our families want to9 give it to those who are to lazy to work and take care of their own family??? I know I definitely dont want to. Ill take care of my family and they can go to work and take care of their own.
Its time to quit the give me, give me and go to work to make this country great again.
And its time to quit arguing who is right and who was wrong on this election. History was made and that is the most important thing I can say about this election. I didnt care who won yesterday because nothing good will change no matter which man won. "

" I would hope that with an Obama presidency, I could be more gracious in my criticisms and we could have some honest, decent discussions on these forums since some who are regular posters should be much more agreeable now. But I can already see that is not to be. Maybe they are just disagreeable persons in general and can't help themselves. "

" HP wrote...

" Calm down NeoCon...have you considered switching to decaf, my friend? "
-----

Good comeback..now that was funny....kudos HP

------

I just can't wait...this is gonna be rich. The messiah Obama made all these promises and pledges...and told use how bad the economy was during GWB's tenure prior to the mortgage fiasco...and already...not even 24 hours later...the messiah's saying he won't be able to intiate his tax cuts (read wealth re-distribution). In other words, he has no economic plan (but anybody with 1/2 a brain knew already knew that)...and all you dupes that voted for him aren't gonna get your government hand-outs checks like you wanted.

So get ready for the 2nd Great Depression....and bring on the government cheese hand-outs like back in the late 70's... "

" NeoCon, Obama is not the messiah. He is PRESIDENT-ELECT. You're calling his proposed tax cuts "wealth redistribution"; what would you call Senator McCain's proposed tax cuts? Were they also "redistribution"? If we who voted for Obama were "dupes" because we were duped by his tax cut plan, what do you call those who voted for McCain because of his tax cut plan?

As for your statement that no lies were told about Obama this year....okay..I heard constantly that he wasn't born in this country. Sorry about your lack of geography skills but he was born in Hawaii. That's one of our states. If you aren't calling that part of America then you better include Alaska as not being part of America because the two states came in almost at the same time. Alaska...isn't that where Palin is from?? Using your logic, then Palin wasn't born here.

Enough rantings..guys, you don't have to like the outcome, but as McCain said last night; "the people have spoken". Give theman a chance. If he doesn't cut the mustard, vote him out in 2012. "

" FYI: Palin was born in Idaho. As for "spreading the wealth around," Obama said it himself. The point is, when you start punishing the wealthy who ends up getting hurt? It ain't the wealthy guy or businessman but the guy who works for him that he has to lay off to help the Obama's of the world, "spread the wealth." I posted elsewhere about the Democrat congressman from Virginia who stated that the Republicans live under the simplistic notion that those who have money should get to keep it. (not the exact words but the gist of the idea). I have no idea if President-elect Obama subscribes to that same idea but it would seem he might. "

" I think we will find that we can all rest easy and let Obama do the work that Bush should have been doing all along meaning our fears can rest a bit "

" Okay 291953, let's re-cap here..

Obama calls for "tax cuts" for "95%" (more like 80%) of taxpayers. Meanwhile he was going to raise taxes on the wealthiest "5%" (>$200,000 for single filer, >$250,000 for joint filers) to give the tax cuts to the 95%.

Since the upper 5% pays 60% of the tax burden (2006 data, National Taxpayers Union) giving money to the lower 50% that pays only 3% of the tax burden is called WEALTH REDISTRIBUTION!

As for "your statement that no lies were told about Obama this year...." you need to read more careful. That was not in my post.

And NO, Obama gets no chance. Democrats were on President GW Bush day one after he was elected. So no, Obama gets no chance. Let him reap the whirlwind.... "

" I didnt care who won yesterday because nothing good will change no matter which man won. "

----------------------

I'm glad the world is not full of people with attitudes like the person who posted this. "

" There is nothing worse than a bunch of "sore loosers." Grow up, you sound like a bunch of babies. "

" ..."the messiah's saying he won't be able to intiate his tax cuts"

He did? When and where? Seriously, I haven't read anything about this and I would really like to know where you got your information from. "

" I must be behind last I knew he had not shown his birth certificate he went to Hawaii. And had all records sealed "

" The thing that I find most entertaining about this forum are the similarities between EVERY post. If I went through and deleted specific names of candidates, I wouldn't be able to tell which of you were Republicans and which were Democrats. All of this rhetoric is tiresome. Both candidates promised tax relief, everyone knows that neither would actually follow through. The differences between the two parties are more evident in the Voters than the Candidates themselves, who pander to whichever demographic that they are standing in front of that particular day. One day, Americans might realize that there are choices outside of the "Republi-crats and Demo-blicans" and vote for Real Change. "

" So the Fox News propagandists are under orders to trash Palin now by finally revealing the truth about her. But this is the same Moose Queen that Fox News encouraged its moron audience to worship just a couple of days ago.
Aren't the ignoramuses who watch Fox getting whiplash from these spinning propaganda positions? Have they always been at war with Eastasia? "

" NeoCon- you're starting to sound a little whiny. Sour grapes or just poor sportsmanship on your part? What happened to the calm, cool and collected Neo of the past? I guess you're not to happy with the election results, huh?

I would think you could at least wait until Obama took office before you started your attacks on him.

And don't forget our side gets to blame anything bad that happens during Obama's glorious, wonderful and honorable administration on Bush, just as your side blamed everything that went wrong during Bush's disgusting, nasty and criminal infested regime on Clinton. "

" Fine, let's recap here NeoCon Academician:

1). Reagan expanded the EITC, which redistrubted the wealth by your definition.

2). Teddy Roosevelt initiated the progressive income tax, which redistributed the wealth by your definition.

3). Abraham Lincoln initiated the first ever income tax, which was a redistribution of wealth by your definition.

There are the three pillars of the GOP, each supporting their own version of redistribution of wealth. I think you would do well to sit down, shut up, and get your facts straight about what exactly is a redistribution of wealth. So, are Reagan, Roosevelt, and Lincoln sociatists? "

" "And NO, Obama gets no chance. Democrats were on President GW Bush day one after he was elected. So no, Obama gets no chance."
---
Oh, NO!! Neo is going to deny Obama his chance! I guess Obama and the majority of the American people who supported him might as well give up right now, eh?
You're a hoot, Neo. "

" Yeah TQ, the good old boys at Fox are bashing Palin today. Someone has to be the scapegoat, as they simply can't report the truth, and that is that the majority of Americans wanted Obama and not 4 more years of any Republican.

I'm wondering if Limbaugh can make it through the rest of the week. He sounds like he's been on meltdown mode since Tuesday.

And speaking of meltdown, it looks like our regulars like NeoCon and RWB are doing the same. I doubt if we hear from the goofy Marty Y for a while. "

" "She had no experience that would qualify her for VP."

----SHE had no experience?
Obama has been a US senator for four years, 2 of which he did nothing but campaign for the presidency...and when he did vote, he voted Present the majority of the time.
Even Hillary said his experience is "He gave a good speech in 2004."
Now that he's moving into the White House, is he going to sell the house he bought from Tony Rezko? "

" You know, rbvfd10, Obama is a distinguished professor of constitutional law and a former president of the Harvard Law Review. Palin is some beauty queen runner-up who didn't know that Africa is a continent. LOL. "

" I as one of the Americans who did not vote for Obama, wish our new president well. I hope he can lead and be the "I'm your president too" as he said to those of us who didn't vote for him in his acceptance speech.

To wish him to fail is an invitation to cut "our noses off to spite our faces". It's non-productive. Everyone loses.

I had and still have issues with the man, but I must admit I had some with McCain also. I'm not going into the reasons I decided to vote for McCain here. My decision is my business and I don't feel the need to defend it.

President-elect Obama is now and will be after he's sworn in under much scrutiny and many will be waiting for him to mess up. AND he will. All presidents have, some more than others. None are infallible.

I know many of you have a laundry list of mistakes made by presidents. Those lists have been displayed on these threads many times. To go into them would be redundant. We've heard most of them many times.

But for cryin out loud folks, lets give the man a chance first and if he does something we don't like, speak up!All this speculation on how he will succeed or fail is just that, a guessing game at this point.

When he steps into the "real world" of the Oval Office, it's a possibility some of his perceptions will change also and he may find he needs to adjust his thinking. It's called flexability folks and be willing to listen to other points of view before coming to a decision. Some who didn't vote for him may like these changes and those who supported him during the campaign may not. We'll just have to wait and see.

At the risk of having to duck from the "incoming" I'm pretty sure I'm going to get from my "friend TQ", I'm going to offer up prayers for guidance in the awesome responsibilities he'll be undertaking and the decisions he'll be making as the man with the most important job in the world.. :-)ing atcha TQ! "

" Kudos, Billie Brant. "

" NeoCom, That specific statement wasn't in your post,but you did state a lot of other hot air.

If you are unhappy with the result of the election(and it seems you are) then you can follow the example of people from my generation when they were unhappy with LBJ. You can either wait for the next election (that's in 2012, in case you didn't know) or migrate to Canada. Bye now. "

" Wow Billie Brant, I hope the rest of the McCain voters act like you do.

You are entirely correct about giving the man a chance. And, when Obama does make a mistake- which he will, it happens- you certainly have the right to criticize him because you did cast a vote and you are an American.

I truly hope that the rest of JG-TC, Coles County and all of the country have the same outlook as you and are willing to give the man a chance.

It is simply amazing to see how much has changed in the past 50 years in America, the voters elected someone not by the color of their skin but by the content of their character and their outlook on how they will fix America's problems.

I personally think the McCain campaign would have done better if they we're not constantly on the defensive. They used their last two weeks to constantly attack Obama's camp and call him a socialist among other things. Why not use that time to tell America what you will do while leading our nation? Its ludicrous. "

" BB - those were probably some of the most insightful words ever posted on this site. Thank you for that.

Complaining won't accomplish a whole lot of anything, especially before his job begins.

And as an interesting fact, some of the most "popular" and most "successful" presidents on both sides of the aisle (Lincoln, FDR, Teddy, Adams, Wilson, Reagan, JFK, Eisenhower) had less than 10 years in any form of politics. This country needs a sense of togetherness, it's something we've been lacking for a very long time, and I just hope among hopes that he may be someone we can get behind.

Name calling isn't going to fix the economy, throwing stones isn't going to get our troops home safely, and fighting each other is certainly not going to secure us from terrorist attacks.

I'm not saying we have to agree with everything our leaders do, that would be extremely un-American, but we do have to begin to trust them and ourselves regardless of differences. We're living in entirely to frightening a time to play red state/ blue state.

Sorry, I've ranted enough. I just hope and work for the best, and I hope everyone here does too. "

" Do republicans seriously think that a republican president will get Roe vs Wade overturned thus making abortion illegal? If so, why hasn't GWB done that. Just because I am a democrat,doesn't mean abortion would be my choice - but I haven't walked a mile in shoes that have had to make that choice. God doesn't rate sin. The name calling, mud slinging, hate driven campaigning is just as sinful as taking a life. I chose to vote for Obama because this nation is in desparte need of fresh ideas, perspectives, ability to see beyond yesterday. We all know this nation certainly cannot be 'fixed' in a year or two years. It's going to take a lot of time and work from all of us. Let's grow up, support our president, and do whatever we can to fix this nation and planet! "

" To BarockinThe Vote, I'm not saying I don't have some concerns and doubts about his presidency. BUT, I am willing to wait and see what happens.

If he leads more as a centrist as many of the pundits out there seem to think he will instead of leaning heavily to the left as some think he will, reaching across the aisle may become a reality.

Lets hope he can get some of the more stubborn members of Congress) bith sides) to do the same.

I know I'm not going to agree with everything he does. When that happens "little ol me" will speak up. :-) "

" Great posts, Billie - my sentiments exactly.
I also voted for McCain, even though there are a few of his beliefs I'm not kosher with.
Hopefully Obama can stride to better America & the world around us.
Let's all see what the man can do. "

" Momma Luda wrote on Nov 6, 2008 5:57 PM:
" Do republicans seriously think that a republican president will get Roe vs Wade overturned thus making abortion illegal?

Momma Luda, someone on another forum said this: that abortion is just a talking point the GOP uses to tug at heart strings and get votes. I think she is right. I don't think they will ever take away their own daughters' option to end an unwanted pregnancy, and they surely must have a high rate of it, since they don't think information or access to birth control should be readily available either. "

" How come the only ones calling Obama "the messiah" are the Republicans? "

" Though we all have different views and voted for different candidates one thing is certain. We now have a new President coming into office that we need to support. I was taught to give respect to the President and unfortunately, George Bush has made a mockery of that valued position in the last eight years. Barack Obama is not a miracle worker. He won't be able to fix problems overnight. Let's all stop being so cynical though and instead of having a negative attitude and attacking a man that hasn't even taken on his position yet, support him and our country and have faith that it will get better. "

" I'll hold my breath waiting for the NeoCon Academicians of the country to refuse their tax cuts. "

" Becky wrote on Nov 7, 2008 7:59 AM:
" How come the only ones calling Obama "the messiah" are the Republicans? "


sour grapes and hate.....as usual "

" President-Elect Obama is no messiah, more's the pity. He is just a highly intelligent, earnest, engaging politician who has the monumental task of trying to straighten out a country pretty much wrecked by the Bush Republicans. I doubt if he or anyone else can actually do it.
But if you Republicans would prefer to oppose him in this task, you might as well get yourselves an early spot on the bread lines. Thanks to you, America's 11th hour has arrived. "

" Obama cannot do any worse tham the current President. So, if he is mediocre he will appear to be great. "

" HP wrote...

"you're starting to sound a little whiny. But Harry, everyone knows that Sour grapes make for the best w(h)ine, literally and figuratively.

As you wrote ... "don't forget our side gets to blame anything bad that happens during Obama's glorious, wonderful and honorable administration on Bush".

Oh I won't. Just like you all credit Clinton with the budget surplus in the '90's even though it was Newt Gingrich's "Contract With America" proposal, a proposal that Clinton signed after being dragged to the table to sign it, and that reformed welform and brought about NAFTA, that caused the surplus. "

" Locke (maybe more like Hobbes)....

Stop reading the liberal blogs. You don;t know what you are talking about.

So, let's do recap then, shall we...

History 101 and Poli Sci 101 class is now in session...

As for "1). Reagan expanded the EITC, which redistrubted the wealth by your definition."

The earned income tax credit brought poverty level relief in the '80's. With the feckless Jimma Carter's policies, interest rates where at 20%, unemployment near 10%, and inflation at 12%. When Reagan saw the EITC as the best way to help out the truly needy, and without handouts. So that was giving to the truly poor and not hardly taking from the rich to give to another (not necessarily the poor like now). Since Reagan, GHW BUSH (a RINO) and Clinton shunned the EITC for minimum wage raises, and just to get votes. It gets demos votes, but it's an unnatural force on the market. In other words, every time the minimum wage has been raised, prices go up. Go check the data, Sporto.

2). Teddy Roosevelt initiated the progressive income tax, which redistributed the wealth by your definition.

I can't EVEN belief you'd bring up Teddy Roosevelt. You are obviously mistaking republican for conservative here. FIRST of all he was a PROGRESSIVE (remember the Bull Moose Party) and not necessarily a true republican. SECONDLY, Republicans then LIKED the idea of a progressive TAX RATE. Plus... I guess you think single digit tax rates are comparable to a 30-35% top tax rate now?


3). Abraham Lincoln initiated the first ever income tax, which was a redistribution of wealth by your definition.

As for Lincoln, his progressive taxes were SINGLE DIGIT taxes. In 1862, adjusted for the times the tax rate was ZERO for anyone under $10,714 (WAAYY UNDER TODAY's $14,000 poverty rate), 3% rate for $178,000, and a 5% for over $178,000. AND know that the median and average income then was vastly skewed from today's $50,000 a year.


Now, son, go crawl back into the toilet bowl whence you came and flush yourself.... "

" The Question wrote on Nov 7, 2008 11:33 AM:
" President-Elect Obama is no messiah, more's the pity."""
_____________
i can certainly understand how republicans might mistake him as a messiah, i'm quite sure they've never seen anyone on their side as intelligent or with the impeccable character of President-Elect Obama. "

" XTownie wrote:

" I'll hold my breath waiting for the NeoCon Academicians of the country to refuse their tax cuts. "

Geez, how many times must this be explained?

If you did not pay taxes on it initially, it can't be a tax cut!

If the government, i.e. your messiah Obama, takes money from the one person and gives it to another that did not earn it, it's wealth re-distribution!!!!

I wonder XTownie, did you refuse the Bush taxes cuts? "

" So basically...

A). It's not redistribution of wealth when a Republican takes our money and gives it to the working poor.

B). It's not redistribution of wealth when the rich have to pay more than the poor because it wasn't really a Republican (but was) who enacted the policy and the Republicans really didn't mind it that much.

C). It's not redistribution of wealth because the amount was just really small.

Your arguments just don't hold water. It's redistribution of wealth however you want to color it -- and the three pillars of the GOP, Reagan, Lincoln, and Roosevelt all supported it.

Obama isn't doing anything different than these three. Obama's redistribution will be no more different than the taxes under Reagan. Of course, you will say taxing the rich will hurt the economy -- look, the economy ain't glowing with the business owners getting a tax break now.

You, yourself, even said that Reagan gave a tax break (the EITC) to the poor to fix Carter's mess. Now Obama will do it to fix Bush's mess.

Use all the tacty comments you wish, nobody is buying what you are saying -- not now, and not back on November 4th. "

" Locke wrote:

A). It's not redistribution of wealth when a Republican takes our money and gives it to the working poor.

B). It's not redistribution of wealth when the rich have to pay more than the poor because it wasn't really a Republican (but was) who enacted the policy and the Republicans really didn't mind it that much.

C). It's not redistribution of wealth because the amount was just really small.
-----

Are you really this dense? There you go with the "three pillars of the GOP" again. See, this why our educational system, union slaves to the left, pouring the cool-aid down the throats of our young, impressionable, and unknowing youth needs toppled.

For A)...

So your not for helping the poor now?

Let me explain this differently so maybe you sabe and comprende.

TAXATION is the taking of a percentage of your income ($ you EARN) by the government to administer the government and to build/maintain infra-structure.

WEALTH RE-DISTRIBUTION is the taking of $$ from one who has earned it AND GIVING IT TO ONE WHO HAS NOT EARNED IT.

The EITC ("EARNED INCOME" TAX CREDIT), did you see the words EARNED INCOME, provides a deduction for kids and dependents when you are below the poverty level. It's like a double deduction so there's no penalty for providing for your kids. Evidently you think the kids should suffer because they are poor?

And you don't take deductions with your income tax?

For B)...
No, that's called a "progressive tax rate". Personally I think a flat tax is best. Russia installed a flat tax after the fall of the USSR and their government's revenue sky-rocketed.

With a flat tax, equal burden means equal responsibility regardless of whether you are rich or poor. I thought all you democrats are about "equality"? Don't bother to answer...I know your answer...equality only when it's at the expense of others....

For C...

1) See A and B.
2) The tax rates then were like 2
or 3%. The tax rates now are 30-35%. Do the math. That's 1000% difference.

Or maybe we should go to near 100% taxation for the top earners like during the FDR years. The "economic" difference between FDR's socialism, Hitler's Socialism, Mussolini's socialism, and Mao's and Stalin's socialism in the '30's was that FDR wasn't being imperialist (building empire) and starting wars. Remember, nearly EVERBODY (>25% unemployment) in the 1930's was poor in the US.

The problem with our economy is and has been people living beyond there means, from easy credit, not taxation.

You know there is something wrong when 2/3 of our economy is driven by consumer spending...when we're not making or providing goods and service to others outside of the US to build our GDP......

Look, in 1900 England was the wealthiest, most powerful country in the world. Then Hank Ford of the US of A came along and introduced mass production (we made lots of stuff people wanted) our goods and services virtually immediately started to outpace the rest of the world. It turned world economics on its head. When England saw they were losing competitive advantage, what did they do, yep all the stuff we've done over the past 30 years and then the became the "nation of shop keepers" as Winston Churchill wrote, and a 2nd class country. Get the picture?

So go head...re-distribute the wealth...it's never worked before...why would it now? "

" wow...no rebuttals...obviously I am correct once again. "

" Harry Potter wrote on Nov 11, 2008 8:27 AM:
" NeoCon is fast becoming the Rush Limbaugh of the jg-tc.com web site. And like Rush, a lot of hot air. I expect him to start talking about how brilliant he is any minute now, and that...."

-------------------

I missed the above self back patting post, Neo, so don't go thinking I am claravoiant, I was just a little late with that prediction. LOL! "

" you guys fail to think about rather this new tax plan will get passed or not, either way econmic principles state to spend more in a recession, either way lets not argue about that because Obama is in and what he does is what he does, thats it, the choices are gone "

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Nov 8, 2008 4:20 PM:
" wow...no rebuttals...obviously I am correct once again. "

_______________

i don't bother to read chapters of script.

sorry....in a nutshell what was it you were saying? "

" IF U ARE 13YR OLD CAN U GET LIFE IN JAIL FOR MURDER? "