" Great to see the "kids" come to town so intent on furthering their education. I'm betting that sometime during the next three months, Planned Parenthood will also be swamped. "

" Good work, PD! I have to offer my two cents. Y'know, there are like 12,000 people enrolled at EIU so clearly the majority are here to study/prepare for future.

Plus, I wonder how many "older brothers/older sisters" help move these students in? I know some pretty careless people who aren't in college. Just tossing that in the chat. "

" I'm not surprised. Most likely this number will drop after the weather starts getting colder and everyone goes inside.

Just think how much worse this would be students could enter the bar at 18. "

" "sam" says...I'm not surprised. Most likely this number will drop after the weather starts getting colder and everyone goes inside

you must not live in charleston. there can be a foot of snow on the ground and there will still be a mass exodus every night starting at about 10 of half dressed (and already half drunk)girls headed to the bars, with groups of frat boys trotting along in their wake, hoping the girls will slip on the ice and flash their "goodies" from under their too short skirts. "

" " I'm not surprised. Most likely this number will drop after the weather starts getting colder and everyone goes inside."

Sam, do you believe underage kids and those that drink to excess will stop because they go inside? Or is it they will be less obvious and therefore not get a citation?

gringa, is this the boost in Charleston's economy that the City has been waiting for? LOL "

" I'm glad that I grew up in the 80's. A time when you could have a little fun and not go to jail for it. There was a time when the police use to cut you some slack. Not any more. Prime example are the zero tollerance road side safty checks. Designed to stop impared drivers. They also ticket folks with broken tail lights or licene plate covers. "

" These statistics don't really support EIU's claim that underage drinking is dramatically shrinking, do they??? How about it, Harry Potter? "

" way to prove the drinking claims right EIU, never doubted you students for a second "

" Kids will be Kids, but maybe if they have to pay a couple hundered dollars extra for that beer they drank they will think differently next time. And, when Mommy & Daddy find out that they are already in trouble the first weekend they are here they won't be so quick to send them money for that "book" that they have already bought four times! "

" Again how low should we put the legal drinking age? "

" someone else: you don't buy books at EIU, so mommy and daddy don't send money for books. This is typical college, sure the kids are stupid for taking alcohol outside etc. but we also don't do enough to teach our kids about alcohol, drugs, and sex. You can't just tell kids "don't do it" and expect everything to be okay. You have to teach them why they shouldn't do it, or if they do how to do it in a healthy manner rather than giving them no guidance and expecting everything to be okay. Education is the key to many of these problems, from teenage pregnancy to curbing alcohol and drug abuse. "

" maybe the state should hike the alcohol tax then "

" das, I agree that there has not been enough done to teach these kids about underage drinking and such. A large part of this begins at home. Once they are no longer at home we can only hope they follow our teachings and act responsibly. Far too many kids take the first opportunity to "live it up" once they get to school. "

" Don't put a lighter in a childs hand and not expect some things to get burnt. You can point fingers all you want, but the University is dealing with this problem because of a severe lack of parental education (parental skills, not book skills) and then using that education to educate their kids about exceptable behavior.

Second look at the influences around them. Movies that promote binge drinking and basically making an a55 of yourself can be found on ABC Family now...

The University's role should be providing more outlets for students to blow-off steam and relax. (That is a bit naive to think that this would all of a sudden help, but damn, it's a start.)

Maybe instead of just complaining and looking for the next place to point the finger we should all own up a bit to figure out a way to solve these problems.

It takes a village isn't just something cute someone put on a t-shirt once. "

" Hahvahd wrote on Aug 29, 2008 8:44 AM:

" These statistics don't really support EIU's claim that underage drinking is dramatically shrinking, do they??? How about it, Harry Potter? "

First of all I have no idea of what "statistics" you're talking about, my friend. Arrest numbers are not part of the equation. Situational events and anecdotal activities don't really come into play here, when looking at the big picture over a certain time frame, whether the numbers go up or they go down.

I imagine the claims by the folks at EIU can be supported by such thing as their incident reports. You would have to get any questions answered by the EIU people, as I don't pretend to speak for them or defend their statements about binge drinking being on the decline. I merely passed on the claim that they were making. "

" I think it is funny how many people think the minimum drinking age has any bearing whatsoever on how many kids are drinking. The ones who want to drink will drink whether they are 18 or 22. I spent about 6 months in Germany where the drinking age is 18 (at least I think it is, maybe younger for all I know) and they didn't seem to have the problems I have seen prophecised on this site whenever lowering the drinking age is discussed. My experience is that most of the problems with binge drinking come from kids who are just trying to rebel against something and since drinking is the one thing not afforded them upon becoming adults, they run with it. I am always amazed at how many people's drinking cuts in about half once they become of legal age. The thrill of doing something "bad" is gone, so it becomes less appealing. "

" it would be different if parents could supervise the ones who are going to drink anyway and yes i agree it does become less appealing, i quit before i turned 21, but i never did half the dumb things people are doing now, its a lack of maturity and responsibility "

" injustice85: Did people not get drunk off of their a55es in your day? Sorry, just felt like giving someone some sh_t, old buddy. LMA55O. "

" I agree that when students get to college they lack the maturity and responsibility they should have. The parents are to blame for this. This generation of students has grown up with parents who expect everyone else, namely the schools, to do their parenting for them. I work at EIU and have heard countless parents admit how immature and irresponsible their students are. I would like to explain to them that raising their kids to be mature and responsible adults is their responsibility. Consequently, these students will raise their children to be even less mature and responsible than they were which is why, even though I see pros and cons as far as drinking age goes, I honestly don't think lowering it would turn out the same as it has in Europe. Not for a generation or two anyway. "

" Now that I'm 22, I drink a lot less than I did when I was in HS and college. Kids do it, you're never gonna get over that. The state already upped the punishment, under 21 kids lose their license now. It doesn't seem to help. It's all about education as I said before. I was raised that alcohol is something you have to treat with care. It's fun to drink and have fun, but punishments definitely come along with it if you do not handle it safely. My parents allowed me to drink before I was 21 because they knew I was responsible and knew I was smart enough to follow the advice I had been given to them. Too many parents just tell their kids not do it, rather than explaining what can happen if they over do it or do it before they are of age. As I said once again, EDUCATION is the key. Education from parents and education from schools. "

" right on das, and cleveland steamer dude i am 23 years old, this is my generation "

" Harry Potter wrote, "You would have to get any questions answered by the EIU people, as I don't pretend to speak for them or defend their statements about binge drinking being on the decline. I merely passed on the claim that they were making."

Oh really, Potter? I seem to recall just a few days ago that you were praising EIU for its proactive approach to the drinking issue because of its alcohol education programming. Why praise them if underage drinking is still this rampant -- 141 citations in their 1st few days? How is this -- so many citations -- in just the first 3 days students are back, not evidence of a problem? I stand by my original claim that EIU's anti-alcohol program is a bunch of BS, just designed to make it look like they're doing something about the problem when in reality nothing meaningful is changing, other than the number of students pressured into saying they're drinking less. "

" And don't give me the "fewer incident reports on campus" line of crap, either. Those incident reports are merely college students policing college students -- many of the RA's are also under 21, and it's fairly common knowledge that unless you're throwing a rave in your dorm room, your RA isn't going to say anything. The RA's get more lax year by year.

Try asking the Building Service Workers who clean the rooms, hallways, and bathrooms in the EIU dorms if they're cleaning up fewer piles of puke now than in the past. To hear them talk, the problem is growing, not diminishing, but EIU is on a public-relations campaign to clean up its image as a party school, so they deny, deny, deny. "

" I am not sure about Charleston and Mattoon regarding under age alcohol related arrest. In Chamnpaign-Urbana under age drinkers are arrested on city charges and not state charges. The city charges do not get reported to the Secretary of State so the youth do not lose their drivers license.

By citing the person under 21 with a city charge, I believe the city receives more revenue than they do if it is a state charge.

In Champaign, most under age drinking arrests are treated similar to parking tickets and do not become part of a court record if the arrestee does not challange the citation. They just pay the fine to the city clerks office like you do for a parking ticket and nothing is reported to the county clerk of courts or the Secretary of State.

If more arrest were made under the state statutes and young people lost their driving license, I opine it could assist with reduction of underage drinking. But people under 21 have been drinking illegally for years, so I am not sure what the answer is to get compliance with the law. "

" This is how missed my ex and his four drunken buddies on highway after drinking. More money, less time used, so lets haul in the college students.
OUR TAX MONEY AT WORK. "

" Steve Senteney, city charges involving underage drinking DO get reported to the State, so they can/will lose their license. "

" You and I are usually on the same page on a lot of issues, Hahvahd, however it appears we disagree over this issue. I apologise if I gave the mistaken impression I was cheerleading for EIU, I was not. I was merely reporting what I have heard about the results of their efforts to slow the drinking down by EIU students. I have known the person who has spearheaded this effort, Eric Davidson, for a number of years, and cannot believe that he would allow EIU to put out false information. In fact, I know he would walk away before he would allow that to happen. The man has something that is lacking in a lot of people and that is integrity.

I guess what I'm saying is that we are going to have to agree to disagree on this issue, as I really don't feel like spending time defending EIU on this site.

I would suggest that you call Eric at the the EIU Health Center for more information. I'm sure he will take the time to discuss this issue with you and answer any questions you have about EIU's ongoing efforts to curb alcohol abuse by it's students.

Heck, he might even show you some of the many awards his department has gotten from national organizations, and tell you what criteria was used in giving out these awards.

This may not satisfy you, especially if you prefer to judge this issue on things like isolated incidents and anecdotal reports such as those from the cleaning staff at EIU.


For a number of years, I worked under a brilliant administrator who held a PhD and had a background in research. I learned a lot from her, and one of the things she always stressed was the danger of trying to support your hypothesis with anecdotal reporting. It makes for a colorful story, but it often distorts reality, and as with any subject, reality means the truth.

On the subject of judging things using anecdotal information, one of my favorite stories is one a friend of mine told me years ago, and that was that drug dealing was so bad at one of the local high schools the drug dealers actually had tables set up in the hallways with their wares on display. To this day, he actually believed that happened.

I think we should be applauding EIU for it's efforts instead of ridiculing them and inferring that they are somehow dishonest or disingenuous in their reporting.

And for our friend, Steve Senteney. Good observations. I suspect the reason the Champaign folks (and most other communities) handle this the way they do is to keep from having to share any money recieved from fines with the state. I have no idea of how that works, and I may be all wet, but that seems like a logical reason to me.

I doubt that this will change, but as you say it could be a deterrent, that is if the SOS were notified and more licenses were revoked for illegal alcohol consumption. It's my understanding that hospitals are now required to report the results of blood alcohol tests to the local police in accident cases. Perhaps it would be a good idea for local communities to have to report all alcohol related offenses by minors to the the SOS. Just an idea. "

" The usual Holiday highway armed robbery? "

" mindboggle wrote on Aug 30, 2008 8:01 AM:

" Steve Senteney, city charges involving underage drinking DO get reported to the State, so they can/will lose their license. "

Sorry mb, but would you care to support that claim? You could be right, but I would like to know what your source of information is on that issue. Thanks "

" it would be nice of students kept it in the dorm but everytime I drive down lincoln avenue they run out in front of my car, what's going to happen when I hit one of them just trying to get across town? they are irresponsible which stems from immature which stems from uneducated and not in schools but by parents as well "

" I wonder if getting kicked out of the university for underage drinking would be motivation enough to refrain from drinking. Or maybe after the second or third violation. If the university really wants to stop it they are going to have to have some penalty with teeth in it. "

" Hahvahd, yes, we'll have to agree to disagree. I also know Eric Davidson personally (Gaye Harrison, too, Billie B.), and yes, both are extremely nice people. I don't have first-hand experience with Ms. Harrison's work, but I do Mr. Davidson's. Am I impressed with him as a professional? Not so much. Again, nice guy, good integrity and intentions, but I think he is naive when it comes to his belief in the results of the program. For the students, however, the Alcohol Edu program, like its predecessor Alcohol 101, is perceived as a big joke. They have to jump through the hoop, but they don't take it seriously. I'd equate it to the DARE drug prevention program. Having those programs make us feel good as a society, make us feel like we're trying to address the problem, and are run by individuals who really do have their hearts in the right place and want to make a difference, but the programs don't make much of a difference in real-world behavior. "

" Oops. That one will really make the conspiracy theorists go wild, Harry, in saying we're the same person. I meant to address my remarks to Harry Potter, of course -- I was reading your remark addressed to me and had a senior moment. "

" mindboggle: you posted, "city charges involving underage drinking DO get reported to the State, so they can/will lose their license. "

Are you sure of this statement for Champaign?

I have been told by Champaign police officers and a representative of the city legal department alcohol charges are essentially the same as a parking ticket. But it has been some time since that information was provided to me. So their policy may have changed. Minors in possession of alcohol are not reported by the police department as an arrest, but only a citation. However, if the minor wants to plead not guilty and go to court, then it may also be a different situation if they are found guilty. But if they pay the fine within 21 days, I don't believe any court record exist for the alcohol citation.

I believe if a fake ID is used and the minor is arrested for that charge, that is a different situation and is reported to the Illinois Secretary of State. Also if a underage drinker's drivers license is taken by the Champaign police officer at the time the under age drinker is cited, then that may get reported to the Secretary of State.

I could be wrong and if you have certain knowledge that all Champaign city alcohol charges for minors in possession are reported to the Secretary of State, then I stand to be corrected.

Harry Potter:
I agree with you as to the reason Champaign uses city charges rather than state charges for alcohol violations. They get more revenue via this means. I believe their current fine is $290.00 for a minor in possession of alcohol. I believe but am not certain that is more than the fine normally accessed on a state charge. The University of Illinois police department also uses city of Champaign ordinace violations instead of state charges some also.

The Champaign Police Department Alcohol Unit more than pays for itself with the fines generated by citations written by that unit. They have a very good alcohol unit which is very agressive. But it also provides a lot of educational information and training to minors, especially students as well to bar tenders and alcohol servers. So they do try to educate before they take enforcement action. "

" it's true that parents expect their kids to practically raise themselves or be raised by society "

" I read these comments and I see that all of you are pointing fingers at "everyone else". OK, lets point fingers at ALL THE GUILTY PEOPLE, myself included. We glamorize the problem by posting these comments, Kids that drink read these and laugh it up we make them "famous".
I also believe that many fingers should be pointed at the bars and their owners, every hear of the term "cut off" or "right to refuse service". Bars should forget the MONEY and act responsible. They know when someones had enough and what the effects will be. BAR OWNERS STEP UP shut off the drunks and send them packing.
I also believe the drinking age should be lowered to 18 better they drink in a business than an unsafe barn out in the country at least in a business there are watching eyes (even if only outside from a police cruiser) "

" In our family, kids are now 19 to 43 and if one arrest, we help, a second one on their own. Needless to say, no one was arrested for drinking, drugs, and partying. Also no car thrown in if did not follow the rules. No car if grades down or broke rules. Seemed to work for us. AND going to church helps.
And parental examples. The kids used the alcoholic dad as way not to go. So in own way, it was a role model not wanting to copy and believe curbed their desire to be like him. "

" Steve Senteney, I misread your blog. In Mattoon, city underage alcohol citations DO get reported to the State for a 2nd offense. I am unsure about City of Champaign. "