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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Lee Enterprises

Sunday, August 10, 2008 9:41 PM CDT
LETTER: Leftist leaders succeed in 'hate training'

DON GHERARDINI/Sullivan

Psychologists’ explain the tendency for an individual to make decisions based on emotion, and not sensibility. It is an extremely exploited human weakness by those who know how to use it to their advantage. For many years now, Americans have been divided by a campaign designed to do just that.

The Liberal left in this country adopted this strategy several years ago, when they quietly gained control of the Democratic Party. Their best strategists began to use in their campaigns this “Appeal to the Emotions” technique. They employ the very best minds in advertising and psychological manipulation. By using this technique they successfully create literal hatred in the heart of an American against another Americans. If trained successfully to hate Republicans and the Democratic party offered an extremely liberal candidate that was distasteful to them, conservative members would likely vote for a 3rd party candidate before a good Republican candidate, or not vote, and be of less threat in an election.

It took several years to accomplish this, and today we see the culmination of this plan.

The candidate offered by the DNC was not the one chosen by the people in the Democratic primaries, but the one that the Liberal leftist leaders of the party believe they can control. His record proves he has followed the liberal leaders every beck and call, he owes nothing to the constituents, only to the leaders, who have “awarded” him his position and are financing his campaign.

Many Democrats I know will loyally vote for whomever the party offers, and from others I hear words like “I don’t like Obama, but I just cannot bring myself to vote for a Republican, no matter who they run.”

This is an indication of their successful hate training, and it’s just what the leftist leaders are counting on. Brand loyalty, the result of psychological manipulation.

Conservative Democrats are today without a party. It has been hijacked by left wing liberals and its values lost.

I mourn its demise, but more importantly I recognize it. I will not blindly follow them into the abyss due to brand loyalty. I’m voting against liberalism in the Democratic party, in the presidential race and especially in the rest of the election.

If a Republican now represents the conservative values that Democrat leaders have abandoned, then so be it. That will be a change I can believe in.

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just wondering wrote on Aug 10, 2008 9:54 PM:

" Well said. The Democratic party hasn't been the Democratic party for some time. They are more interested in the special interest groups than they are the people that have been in it for years. I can just imagine the responses that are going to come from this letter. Let the games begin. "

Tom Andres wrote on Aug 10, 2008 10:25 PM:

" Not exactly the way I would have worded it, but Mr Gherardini has hit the nail on the head. I would have added that, while it's true that the Democrats have veered far left this time, the Republicans have followed them in the same direction and now find their choice of candidate far from the Reagan right.

While we wait for the emergence of a true conservative again, I'll vote McCain and hope for the best. Maybe Condi will come to her senses and come to the aid of her country. "

lefty wrote on Aug 10, 2008 11:34 PM:

" First, the letter says nothing of what IS far left nor what hateful virtues they are extolling.

Additionally, if the far left is scary, why is the far right not scary? Maybe when people want to treat us like cattle, own us as property to test their "public policy initiatives," maybe THAT should be the concern.

Folks like GHERARDINI and TOM ANDRES have no problem pushing their nut-job agendas on all of us. How about they (the supposed far left and right) just leave us all alone and stop acting like were their little petri dish experiments? "

das wrote on Aug 11, 2008 1:38 AM:

" Democrats bread hate? Wow. I think that might be the funniest thing I have EVER seen in my life. Wait, which party is it that wants to deny people rights and create a constitutional amendment to say 2 people cannot be in love? That's true hatred right there. Man, this makes me laugh so hard... I wish there was some good honesty in this. "

Early Bird wrote on Aug 11, 2008 5:27 AM:

" "For people who are being critical about Barack Obama talking about hope," Eisenhower said, "I don't think they understand the first thing about American rhetoric and moving this country forward. Ronald Reagan was not a success because he had people scared and frightened all the time. He inspired thousands of people with hope when the Cold War was stagnant and inflation was high and the country sour. We now have another figure right now who has brought all sorts of people into the political process, who has convinced a significant number of people that they were welcome on his team, and has offered a crisp new chance to turn the page internationally." Julie Eisenhower

Mr Gherardini, like some many on the right, totally misses the point, when it comes to the appeal of Obama.

I guess you could say he believes in a vast left wing conspiracy, LOL! "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 11, 2008 7:13 AM:

" There is a very good reason why Rice will never be accepted by her party as VP. I think Tom is being disingenuos with his constant push for her to be on the ticket, either that or else he is rather naive about the worst kept "secret" in Washington, even among Republicans. "

Tom Andres wrote on Aug 11, 2008 8:36 AM:

" Dear lefty, it never ceases to amaze me that, although your posts are anonymous (i.e., not attributed, or personalized), you take immediate personal offense when an attributed comment confronts the words of your pseudonym. The fact is when you post anonymously, by definition, you cannot take it as a personal offense when someone opposes the position of your pseudo.

You cant have it both ways. You cant post as a non-person and then take personal offense if someone opposes you. When you were a small child, did you get mad and suffer extreme anxiety when your parents told you your imaginary friends werent real? LOL, do you get it now?

And, by the way, I agree that the far right is just as dangerous (or scary, as you say) as the far left. "

coonbug wrote on Aug 11, 2008 8:39 AM:

" Your comments, "The Liberal left in this country adopted this strategy several years ago, when they quietly gained control of the Democratic Party. Their best strategists began to use in their campaigns this Appeal to the Emotions technique. They employ the very best minds in advertising and psychological manipulation. ", could easily be reversed to the Republican Party and their RIGHT winged supporters. They pretended to be 'compassionate conservatives' (Bush/Cheney), they manipulated the media and the American's - they used American's FEAR emotion to get away with everything they've done over the past 8 years.

Every Party uses manipulation to a degree to get elected. The same can be said about an employee applying for a job.

Your letter is flawed for that reason.

As for the Dem's nominee - on one hand people like yourself claim he has no experience, on the other hand you accuse him of having LIBERAL experience.

Which is it? "

The Question wrote on Aug 11, 2008 9:58 AM:

" I'm afraid "psychologists" don't explain anything of the kind. Too bad no one informed the author of this screed that the word sensibility MEANS emotion, specifically awareness of and responsiveness toward emotion and refined or excessive sensitiveness in emotion and taste with special responsiveness to the pathetic.
The term this man wants is reason or rationality, but Im not surprised that he isnt acquainted with it. He is equally uninformed about the meaning of the term liberal.
Now, I know that American right wingers despise intelligence and education, but if theyre going to pontificate in letters to the editor, they really ought to set aside their know-nothing prejudices and invest in a good dictionary. Otherwise, theyll end up publicly embarrassing themselves the way this man did.
Or maybe he could try reading Jane Austen instead of listening to Rush Limbaugh. "

The Question wrote on Aug 11, 2008 10:02 AM:

" You're right about that open secret concerning Rice, Harry. Everybody in Washington knows it already, and anybody who doesn't and who bothers to consider her history for a good five minutes can figure it out. She is unelectable. "

father bob wrote on Aug 11, 2008 10:32 AM:

" lefty wrote on Aug 10, 2008 11:34 PM:Folks like GHERARDINI and TOM ANDRES have no problem pushing their nut-job agendas on all of us. How about they (the supposed far left and right) just leave us all alone and stop acting like were their little petri dish experiments? """"

well said lefty. people like them is exactly why more votes, and especially the young voters are turning out to support hope and good governance, as opposed to the same old corrupt and criminal elements. "

Becky wrote on Aug 11, 2008 10:35 AM:

" Ann Coulter:(about 9-11) I've never seen people enjoying their husbands' deaths so much. AND: Ann Coulters' suggestion that Muslims should be killed or converted by force. To name just two of her vile hatred statements.

How about Beck:If we think they are against us, were going to shoot them and kill themperiod because thats the only thing weve got going for uscause we can put them away and get information. If we cant put them away and theyre going to use our court systemkill them.

And here's a very good article on the truth about the "liberal media".

http://www.webpan.com/dsinclair/myths.html
During the 2000 presidential campaign, Russert established a link between Meet The Press and the G.O.P. opposition research team that was responsible for digging up dirt/manufacturing dirt on Al Gore.
And it goes on with: He (Russert) exaggerates Democratic wrongdoing, going to the extreme of inventing criminal behavior. Conversely, he has been unrelentingly oblivious to all Republican scandals; his infinite fascination with the missing intern in the case of Democrat Gary Condit was accompanied by total disinterest in the dead intern who was found on the office floor of Republican Joe Scarbrough. Russert spent years obsessing about an ill fated land deal called Whitewater that involved a couple of hundred thousand dollars, but he remains indifferent to the multi-trillion dollar taxpayer funded kickbacks that George W. Bush has been ladling out to his campaign contributors.

As usual, there are 2 sides of the same story. In order to heal this country's wounds, we must ALL stop this left-right diatribe and start looking at each other as neighbors, American brothers and sisters who are all on a sinking ship. BOTH parties are responsible for this mess! BOTH parties have allowed our jobs to go overseas. BOTH parties have taxed us to death and raise taxes year after year. We fall right into their hands when we bicker between each other. We need to see THEM as the trouble makers and make THEM accountable instead of pointing our fingers at each other and blaming the person standing next to us. Most of us are in the middle. It's the media who makes the right hate left and left hate right propaganda. Don't fall for it. We are NOT enemies. We are all in this together and BOTH the Dems and the Repubs feed off of our constant blaming of each other. Then THEY can still sit in DC, steal our treasury, get bribed by lobbyists and laugh all the way to the bank watching us fight amonst ourselves. It's time to STOP! It's time to come together as a nation and tell DC that we've had enough of their lies! Fire them ALL! "

father bob wrote on Aug 11, 2008 10:47 AM:

" can you say dick cheney and karl rove?

two of the most prolific hate mongers and criminals in the history of american politics. they are far more damning and demeaning than even joe mccarthy. "

injustice85 wrote on Aug 11, 2008 11:35 AM:

" Yes I'm sure all democratics are so guilty of filling people with bull but not the republicans of course. Not Bush of course. lol. Democrat, republican who cares...a crooks a crook in the end and there have been both rep and dem crooks but to say that they all adopted an appealing to the emotions tactic is bull. People do vote stupidly by not taking in all the facts and what not. I knew plenty of people voting for Hillary because she was a woman and they were too and had no other explanation for their vote. Thats shallow. But either way republicans are guilty of appealing too, it's just that the democrats are a little bit better about pulling it off in the end lol. We don't know who to trust in this election and we could ultimately sink as a country in the end but hopefully the winner keeps his so called promises in the end. I don't think the leftists are hate training. If anything acts of hate are coming out in the republicans who are so war driven it is ridiculous. McCain is already threatening Russia and he isn't even president yet. "

injustice85 wrote on Aug 11, 2008 11:38 AM:

" ...and republicans don't get involved with special interest groups? cough cough oil "

injustice85 wrote on Aug 11, 2008 11:38 AM:

" Does anyone in here work lol? "

Tom Andres wrote on Aug 11, 2008 2:26 PM:

" //I think Tom is being disingenuos (sic) with his constant push for her to be on the ticket// Oh Good Lord, yet another way to call me a racist? Get over it. Do you tie everything to race? It sounds as if you have an obsession with skin color. Tell me, is it just the black folks you obsess over or is it all persons of all colors? Do you ever get past skin color when attempting to appraise a person's intellect and/or moral values? HP, youre probably one of those guilty white people who, like John Kerry, found it absolutely, stunningly amazing that a black man could speak in such an articulate fashion. "

Tom Andres wrote on Aug 11, 2008 2:53 PM:

" Don't get me wrong, my personal opinion is that Obama is full of hot air and completely lost without his teleprompter (which is why he fears the town hall meetings with McCain), but he is a good speaker. No doubt about it, better than McCain and certainly better than Senator Clinton. "

father bob wrote on Aug 11, 2008 3:12 PM:

" Tom Andres wrote on Aug 11, 2008 2:26 PM:Tell me, is it just the black folks you obsess over or is it all persons of all colors?

what kind of remark is that Tommie?

oh...i forgot i was talking to a hick from the middle of a cornfield....

of course living in mattoon illinois, i wouldn't expect you to realize what great and wonderful gifts people of diverse ethnicity bring to a community. afterall, mattoon doesn't exactly have a history of embracing people that look different than the presidents on that paper money. "

Tom Andres wrote on Aug 11, 2008 3:46 PM:

" father bob, it's for sure you've lost it. Everything you just posted (at 3:12 PM) is the best testimony yet that you have no clue what youre talking about and that you certainly dont know who I am or where Ive lived most of my life. You might want to do a little research in that regard before you post again since you now have zero credibility, even among your far left friends. If I were you, Id lose the father bob pseudonym and reinvent yourself as someone else. LOL, no one will ever know; well, until your first post as father les, or whatever new name you choose. "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 11, 2008 3:56 PM:

" " //I think Tom is being disingenuous (sic) with his constant push for her to be on the ticket// Oh Good Lord, yet another way to call me a racist?

Huh? No one brought up race here, Tommy. And it's your own words that have earned you that label. LOL!

Between you and miltmart, I don't know which one is thicker headed. "

father bob wrote on Aug 11, 2008 4:31 PM:

" Tom Andres wrote on Aug 11, 2008 3:46 PM:
" father bob, it's for sure you've lost it. Everything you just posted (at 3:12 PM) is the best testimony yet that you have no clue what youre talking about and that you certainly dont know who I am or where Ive lived most of my life. You might want to do a little research in that regard before you post again since you now have zero credibility, even among your far left friends.""""

oh i think my friends would more than confirm my credibility. and tommmie, you're record speaks for itself. "

father bob wrote on Aug 11, 2008 5:36 PM:

" lets see tommie, when i first started posting, you were railing about the mexicans and how they were ruining the economy. then it was about obama's muslim upbringing. then it was the reverend wright controversy and what evil went on inside the black congregation....with a couple of swipes at jeese jackson and al sharpton for good measure. then it was the mexicans coming to work at the proposed packing plant. then it was pierces letter, then yours.....you don't talk about race much....only constantly. "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 11, 2008 6:29 PM:

" You might want to do a little research in that regard before you post again since you now have zero credibility, even among your far left friends.""""

Are you speaking for everyone on the left side now, Tommy?

I've never considered my self far left, but if you wish to that's fine with me Tommy, and I certainly don't buy your assessment of fb's credibility.

In short, he probably has more credibility in his little finger than you have in your entire bigoted body.

I think the right side's definition of the far left is anyone who has the audacity to criticise the reprobate occupying the White House.

People who have no credibility with me are racists. Your telling the disgusting Mexican gardener joke was something most of won't forget.

Unlike your right wing buddy who changes names every few weeks or so most of us on the left stick with our names, even though we have to put up with your constant whining about it. So I wouldn't expect fb to be pulling a Bryant Lamphier/Doh/Bushbaby stunt in the new future. That's for those on your side.

By the way you might want to check with your pal who has changed his name, once again, this time to RushBaby and see if you can speak for him. He's seems pretty needy and would probably appreciate the attention. LOL! "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 11, 2008 6:36 PM:

" Tell me, is it just the black folks you obsess over or is it all persons of all colors? Do you ever get past skin color when attempting to appraise a person's intellect and/or moral values? HP, youre (sic) probably one of those guilty white people who, like John Kerry, found it absolutely, stunningly amazing that a black man could speak in such an articulate fashion. "

You might want to check those extensive files, Tommy. This is about as confusing as anything you've ever posted. Obsession about race seems to be your passion, not mine. LOL! "

Tom Andres wrote on Aug 11, 2008 6:38 PM:

" No, father les, I cant let you get away with that one. Ive never railed about the Mexicans (just illegal immigrants). In fact, I do have friends who have come to the United States from Mexico legally, and they are more disgusted with illegal immigration than I am. Has nothing to do with race, my friend. (By the way, stupid, my wife is a naturalized citizen of the United States.) Ive never said a word about Obamas Muslim upbringing (please cite an example of that). Yes, I have chimed in on the Reverend Wright controversy because the man is as racist and as un-American as they come. I probably have had criticisms directed towards Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton with me, thats been going on for years. The last thing those two want to see in this country is racial harmony, because theyd be out of a job if that ever happened. Therefore, just like Wright, they are also as un-American as you can get. I didnt have much to say about Jacks letter other than he may have put his foot in his mouth.

I NEVER bring up the race issue but I do address it whenever the Obama team tries to make headlines with it instead of addressing issues of substance.

father les, why not admit it? Youre not really smart enough to keep up with any of the crowd on here. Take your ball and go home. Play your race board game there. The folks around here are getting tired of your race baiting. "

Locke wrote on Aug 11, 2008 7:07 PM:

" Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, and Rush Limbaugh have nothing but contempt for anyone who doesn't agree with them -- I don't hear the vitriolic hatred coming from the left, mostly because there aren't any comparable on the left.

Are you supposing there are not those on the right who will vote GOP no matter who they run? This is the pot calling the kettle black.

So the candidate offered by the DNC was not the one chosen by the people in the Democratic primaries? Pardon me, but this only confirms your lunacy. This is as bad as the leftists who claim the USSC gave Bush the presidency.

This is delusional rambling... "

Tom Andres wrote on Aug 11, 2008 9:31 PM:

" I have an idea, boys and girls, let's have a JG/T-C poster party somewhere and see if we can channel this negativity from the left and the right to a more worthwhile positive cause. How about it, Harry? Can you and Herb and Penny and Rob whip up some grub and meet us at a Lytle or Morton for a positive poster picnic? LOL! We'd just be one big happy family, wouldn't we?

I'm done with the online version. I prefer Rob Stroud's idea of a cup of coffee and the good ol' paper and ink. "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 12, 2008 7:07 AM:

" Oh no! No more Tommy. Sort of reminds me of Nixon's speech about the press not having him to kick around anymore. We'll miss you Tom. (not really) With that big ego, you'll be back. LOL! "

RushBaby wrote on Aug 12, 2008 7:27 AM:

" Locke said- "This is as bad as the leftists who claim the USSC gave Bush the presidency."
-----
Harry Potter, fatherbob, coonbug, The Question, and all you Left-Wingers, did you read that? Locke said that Bush did NOT steal the election. Do you all agree with that? Let's have a show of hands. "

RushBaby wrote on Aug 12, 2008 7:39 AM:

" Locke said- "Sean Hannity, Ann Coulter, and Rush Limbaugh have nothing but contempt for anyone who doesn't agree with them -- I don't hear the vitriolic hatred coming from the left, mostly because there aren't any comparable on the left."
-------

Are you kidding? Ever visit the Huffington Post? The DailyKos? The Democrat Underground? I recall sentiments like "screw the troops" and racial slurs of Condi Rice, death wishes for President Bush and recently some really classy comments about the passing of Tony Snow. Oh and let's not forget the lying little toupee wearing Keith Olbermann or the slime ball antics of Al Franken. Or the classic moves by Code Pinko. Or the General Betrayus crap that backfired for MoveOn.org!
The Left has set a new low for gutter politics in this country.

And you just set a new standard for delusional rambling, Locke. "

Julio wrote on Aug 12, 2008 7:42 AM:

" The radical right is who you need to fear. They're the intollerant lot that will blow up your building or start a shoot out at church. "

The Question wrote on Aug 12, 2008 9:16 AM:

" I have been both a liberal and a conservative at times in my life, and I have figured out why American conservatives hate liberals so much.
Conservatives loathe liberals because they know them to be morally superior. Liberals actually practice the enlightened, civilized virtues of empathy, compassion and reason. Those are values to which conservatives pay only pay grudging lip service.
Right wingers, who are creatures of fear and appetite, don't really understand moral philosophy, despite the fact that they yap about it constantly. But they know liberals tend to be genuine in their moral concerns, and they can't stand it.
They reserve for liberals a level of hatred that only someone who realizes he's inferior can nurse for those whom he secretly knows to be his betters. "

lefty wrote on Aug 12, 2008 9:58 AM:

" Dearest THOMAS ANDRES, two points.. first, my name is in reference to the hand with which I write, not my ideology. Second, you get a giant magic cookie for not hiding behind a pseudonym. I am sure your writing on here makes your family proud. Keep up the good work! "

out-there wrote on Aug 12, 2008 10:10 AM:

" This letter is the most mis leading on,
what is going on in politics today
Repub's don't need any help being hated they bring it on there owen party
And you wouldn't have to go very far to find out why if you would use your own brain to think.Let's think back to Ex Gov Ryan and the free money he handed out even as far down south from the windy city as mattoon.
Patronage hiring and money give aways
that benifit the wealthy that look down on people that work hard for a living,The word oppressor's come to mind.Why do you think Bush won't except
the condition of the economy so the younger gen will most likly have to enlist in the service.Bail out's for the wealthy and low taxes only benifit them all them. New jobs never came to past and the stem-u-less for the most part went to pay for people's mounting bills.Mc Bush will carry on the tradition.Proof is the fist plan
McCain had for health care tax breaks
so people can go out and get there owen if you do this the amount of loop hole's for coverage from pre-existing conditions, to your going to pay more because of you age or health those blood test medical Q&A you fill out put you in catagories.
Politic's today count on the people not to remember past yesterday.
history is not there friend.
I would like to here what McCain's veiw on the geneva convention and how this administation abused it. "

The Question wrote on Aug 12, 2008 10:15 AM:

" "father les, why not admit it? Youre not really smart enough to keep up with any of the crowd on here. Take your ball and go home. Play your race board game there. The folks around here are getting tired of your race baiting."
--------
Yet he's a lot smarter than you, Tommy. Odd, isn't it? And he was smart enough to nail you on your relentless obsession with race, wasn't he, Tommy? That's what's really bothering you, isn't it, Tommy? "

tammer65 wrote on Aug 12, 2008 10:36 AM:

" Question, well said! You've described perfectly the liberals in my life and the kind of moral life they lead. They don't just utter a bunch of words -- they live a life of compassion and love. "

The Question wrote on Aug 12, 2008 10:42 AM:

" Fox News' veteran reporter Liz Trotta said, "If it could," the U.S. should "take out" both Barack Obama and Osama bin Laden.
Radio talk-show host Michael Reagan, Ronald Reagan's son. said that an anti-war activist trying to influence U.S. military forces in Iraq should be tied to a post on a firing range and shot by the American troops.
Andy McCarthy at National Review said, in response to the Supreme Court ruling that Guantanamo detainees have the right to contest their imprisonment in civilian courts, the U.S. should round up all the detainees there and just slaughter them en masse.
Conservative spokescreature Ann Coulter said that liberals are "traitors" who deserve to be shot, a Supreme Court justice should be poisoned and that the New York Times building should be bombed with the reporters and editors inside.
That's the face of hate, folks. And sure it isn't liberal. "

The Question wrote on Aug 12, 2008 11:05 AM:

" Thanks to right wingers, in the United States, circa 2008, we endorse torture, spying on innocent citizens, permanent imprisonment without trial, the occupation and subjugation of other countries, gang rape cover-ups, official lies about supposed "friendly fire" killings, private death squads and American secret police.
We think it's all right just as long as we as we don't call them that. "

father bob wrote on Aug 12, 2008 11:13 AM:

" Tom Andres wrote on Aug 11, 2008 6:38 PM:I NEVER bring up the race issue but I do address it whenever the Obama team tries to make headlines with it instead of addressing issues of substance.

father les, why not admit it? Youre not really smart enough to keep up with any of the crowd on here. Take your ball and go home. Play your race board game there. The folks around here are getting tired of your race baiting. """"

LOL....now Tommie, the only one i bait is you, and it's so easy. predictably, you'll always make some comment sticking your foot in your mouth, and there it is...just waiting like a rack off ribs, turnip greens and grits for me to pounce on.

sounds like if you can't stand the heat, you need to stay out of the kitchen.

this food talk is makin' me hungry....i'll see ya after lunch. "

RushBaby wrote on Aug 12, 2008 11:24 AM:

" "spying on innocent citizens" - Didn't Obama vote FOR that?

"the occupation and subjugation of other countries," - Didn't a slew of Democrats vote for that? "

RushBaby wrote on Aug 12, 2008 11:44 AM:

" Liberals Register Felons for Obama, WaPo Can't Locate Any Critics

On the front page of Mondays Washington Post, reporter Krissah Williams Thompson chronicled liberal efforts to register felons to vote for Barack Obama. The story was stuffed with liberal activists, but nowhere in Thompsons story was a single source who was critical of restoring voting rights to felons.

Thompson made it clear that neither the McCain nor the Obama campaigns were actively registering felons, but the liberal groups clearly assume the felon vote is a Democrat vote. The hero at the storys beginning is Obama-backing activist Reggie Mitchell, who hopes to overtake the Republicans in Florida:

"Mitchell is a leader of a disparate group of grass-roots Democrats and civil rights activists who are trying to register tens of thousands of newly eligible felons. They have taken up the cause on their own, motivated by the belief that former offenders have been unfairly disenfranchised for decades...."
---------

There's some of those fine Liberal morals and values for ya! "

The Question wrote on Aug 12, 2008 12:26 PM:

" You know, it wasn't the "sensibility" conservatives but the "liberal moonbats" who predicted that the Iraq invasion would be the expensive, bloody, endless quagmire it has become.
I guess flying around the moon with leathery wings must give you a pretty good perspective on who's really bent on destroying the Earth. "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 12, 2008 1:06 PM:

" I see Fox news is running stories about China "faking up" the news. Anyone else see the irony here? LOL! "

RushBaby wrote on Aug 12, 2008 1:09 PM:

" Backers want Clinton nominated at convention

Maybe Democrats have begun to tire of The One, too. Since 1884, the Democrats have conducted a roll-call vote to nominate their candidate for the presidency, and most expected to have that same opportunity in Denver. However, the Barack Obama campaign fearful of a floor revolt by Hillary Clinton die-hards has tried to strike that tradition in order to have Obama nominated by acclamation. This led to a potential road-to-Damascus moment for Democrats in terms of their presumptive nominee:

SFGate Aug 11 2008- "[Garry] Mauro said that because it was such a closely contested election, he is mystified as to why the Obama campaign is resisting and even balking at a roll-call vote, according to some reports.

Are these folks so new to politics, are they so arrogant, that they think hes different from every other nominee weve ever had? he asks."
-------

Is Mauro kidding? Maybe hes still in shock after losing a gubernatorial election to George W. Bush. Of course theyre arrogant and think hes different . hes The One! Why does Mauro think Obama wants to give his convention speech outside the convention? "

out-there wrote on Aug 12, 2008 2:51 PM:

" Ex republican Bob Barr is comming to
Republican National convention.
May be there going to nominate him instead of the old dude.
might be a better choice as far not being the same ol boy's in the white house. "

even steven wrote on Aug 12, 2008 3:11 PM:

" The Question wrote on Aug 12, 2008 9:16 AM:
" I have been both a liberal and a conservative at times in my life, and
I have figured out why American conservatives hate liberals so much.
Conservatives loathe liberals because they know them to be morally superior. Liberals actually practice the enlightened, civilized virtues of empathy, compassion and reason. Those are values to which conservatives pay only pay grudging lip service.

Nice stereotypes there... and so condescending an pompous sounding, too. So, are you a regular blood donor? Do you belong to any civic or charitable organizations? Have you mentored any abused kids or even taken any into your home to raise as your own? What have you personally done that makes you so morally superior than your more conservative leaning neighbors? Anything? Or are you like most of the other leftists I've met... all talk and no personal actions whatsoever? Enlighen us, please, with all the details of your altruistic endeavors. "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 12, 2008 3:21 PM:

" Actually fb, Tommy said this morning, on another thread, that he was giving up this site. Maybe he got tired of being proven wrong. Now if we could just get the other nutcas........ I would call him by name, but I'm not sure which name he's using today. LOL! "

RushBaby wrote on Aug 12, 2008 3:28 PM:

" "I have been both a liberal and a conservative at times in my life"

Suuuuuure you have Question. Suuuuuuure you have. Until one magical day when you just happen to slide into full-fledged communism. "

tammer65 wrote on Aug 12, 2008 3:42 PM:

" even steven, are you attempting to suggest that liberals don't donate blood, belong to civic organizations, mentor abused children or take them into their homes, etc.? What planet are you from? None of the community groups I volunteer for -- and there are many -- ask for my political affiliation when I come to help, nor do I ask for anyone else's. Why are you trying to inject politics into a place it doesn't belong? I assure you, people from all walks of life volunteer their time for the betterment of others -- I've seen it with my own eyes. "

The Question wrote on Aug 12, 2008 3:42 PM:

" You seem a little uneven, Steven. Have I acquired your goat? "

Rotty wrote on Aug 12, 2008 3:58 PM:

" Psst.... HP, scroll up some, it's this thread.
LOL! "

The Question wrote on Aug 12, 2008 4:05 PM:

" Tell me, are you right wingers angry that American liberals created and enacted such hateful programs as Social Security, Medicare, the Civil Rights Act, women's suffrage, federal deposit insurance, unemployment compensation, rural electrification, child labor laws, civil liberties, minimum wages and the 40-hour work week? Does it just make your blood boil that we don't have debtors' prisons, county poorhouses and slaves anymore? "

Obamagasm wrote on Aug 12, 2008 4:22 PM:

" The Question "Have I acquired your goat?"

Why Question, were you looking for a date? LOL! "

Obamagasm wrote on Aug 12, 2008 4:35 PM:

" What boils my blood, Question, is that you Liberals have created a nanny state that consumes 75% of the agricultural budget, a Social Security program that was supposed to have been temporary and is now almost bankrupt, a Medicare program that is wasteful and out of control, affirmative action that is unconstitutional, real estate taxes that were only supposed to have funded local infrastructure and now mostly fund a public school system that is incompetent with a skyrocketing budget, civil liberties that have grown into an illegal advocacy for illegal aliens "rights", Unions that are actually more corrupt than most corporations; and your solution to this Liberal quagmire is of course- MORE TAX DOLLARS FROM US RICH MIDDLE CLASS FOLKS. "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 12, 2008 5:18 PM:

" Thanks Rotty, usually it's my stalker who corrects me and points out all my errors. Thanks buddy. That one must have got past him. LOL! "

father bob wrote on Aug 12, 2008 5:22 PM:

" Obamagasm wrote on Aug 12, 2008 4:35 PM:
" What boils my blood, Question, is that you Liberals have created a nanny state that consumes 75% of the agricultural budget"""

LOL....and one your Republican President couldn't sign fast enough..

you want to talk about spending, explain the 3 trillion we've spent on nothing. we'll all be waiting for a new revelation from you........ "

The Question wrote on Aug 12, 2008 5:32 PM:

" Social Security has been keeping the elderly out of abject poverty for 70 years, and Bush is busy spending its surplus on his drunken-sailor warmongering.
You really do want to return to the days of county poorhouses, don't you? Just keep letting Limbaugh spoon-fed you your belligerent, ignorant BS.
As Joe Bageant observed, the class system in this country is about inherited advantage and never having to dodge IEDs in Iraq, but selling insurance policies to those who do.
"The national mythology holds that we are a nation of rugged individualism, the implication being that there are no classes, no masses, just 300 million rugged freedom loving Daniel Boone/Marlboro Man types completely in charge of their own destinies."
"Regardless of media-manufactured underclass
hallucinations as to class, only one class is paying
half a week's wages or more for a single doctor visit to a member of the other class. Only one class is counting on Social Security for its entire retirement income (at least 64 percent of Americans and rising, by last count.) Yeah, yeah, more than half of Americans are invested in the stock market through 401Ks etc. we are
told. But only at a few thousand dollars per
household. When it comes to the much-ballyhooed stock market, 10 percent of Americans split the national hog between themselves, tossing the ears to the other 90 percent."
"The richest 10 percent of families own a little over 85 percent of all outstanding stocks, 87 percent of all financial securities, and 90 percent of all business assets. If you throw in assets such as homes, checking and savings accounts, CDs and money funds, and pension accounts, then 20 percent of Americans own 83 percent of all wealth.
The bottom 20 percent have no assets, no net worth at all.
"Put simply, the top 20 percent eat the cake, the middle 60 percent eat the crumbs and the bottom 20 percent get to lick the plates while they do everyone else's dishes."
And it's all getting worse, now that the unbridled, Bush-fed greed of the financial whiz kids at the top has undermined the whole economy. "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 12, 2008 5:35 PM:

" I think Obamagasm was born in the wrong century. Poor guy needs to move to the wilderness of Alaska. Too much Fox news will warp one's brain. LOL! "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 12, 2008 5:43 PM:

" Are there no more poor houses? "

The Question wrote on Aug 12, 2008 6:02 PM:

" Harry, you've been reading Dickens again. Now cut out those literary references. You're going to make the poor right wingers feel even dumber than they do right now. "

The Question wrote on Aug 12, 2008 6:09 PM:

" Stroll down to your local convenience store, Obi Wan, and have a look at the cans on the counter with the kids' pictures on them the ones begging for spare change to defer the expenses of families who have been bankrupted by their child's disease. That is what you Republicans like to call the "greatest health care system in the world."
Ridiculous that they didn't anticipate genetic disorders or leukemia, isn't it? The contemptible fools.
You're lucky that you're the master of your fate, the captain of your soul, and that you will never fall ill, or be out of luck, or out of money, or out of your mind and need someone else to help you. "

The Question wrote on Aug 12, 2008 6:20 PM:

" A conservative is one who enshrines his grandfathers' revolution and fears his children's. "

Obamagasm wrote on Aug 12, 2008 6:30 PM:

" I meant to say was that Social Security was never meant to be the primary means of retirement- it WAS however set up as a permanent program. And I agree Bush has been spending like a Democrat. And I never saw any Democrats trying to stop him.

But of course before the Iraq War and before Bush's out of control spending, Social Security along with all the other nanny state goody programs were never over budget- right?

And of course the Democrats don't want to increase any of this spending right?

The expense of the war could have been spent on the nanny state and it STILL would not be enough. Our taxes would still climb because the entitlement programs keep growing out of control.

How much would that 3 trillion spent on Iraq help us with our nanny state? Not much:

The federal government's long-term financial obligations grew by $2.5 trillion last year, a reflection of the mushrooming cost of Medicare and Social Security benefits as more baby boomers reach retirement.
That's double the red ink of a year earlier.
Taxpayers are on the hook for a record $57.3 trillion in federal liabilities to cover the lifetime benefits of everyone eligible for Medicare, Social Security and other government programs, a USA TODAY analysis found. That's nearly $500,000 per household.

Did you Liberal crybabies catch that? The nanny state GREW by $2.5 trillion. And as long as Democrats have their way, it will KEEP growing. "

Obamagasm wrote on Aug 12, 2008 6:37 PM:

" Oh and there are plenty of poor houses Harry.

They're called low income, subsidized housing and trailer courts. And if you check out the residents you'll see a lot of single women who make a living from having several children with various missing fathers, and you'll find lots of toothless wonders who can't afford a tooth brush, yet they have no problem affording tattoos, piercings, alcohol, cigarettes, cable TV, and the occasional drug habit.

Yes we need more of those poor houses, because they work so well now. "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 12, 2008 6:52 PM:

" Now come on, TQ, let's be fair. I'm sure a lot of Conservatives read books. How else would you explain Ann Coulter books being so wildly popular among that bunch? And when he's not busy selling his faithful followers ties, coffee mugs and shirts, Limbaugh has a ghost written book or two to foist off on his adoring fans. I see old Bill O has picked up on that scam too. But classics, no I really doubt it, that would require thinking. Nothing but black and white for those reproba....well ...you know. LOL! "

The Question wrote on Aug 12, 2008 7:08 PM:

" Obi old bean, it's the Republicans who killed Social Security, coldly and deliberately. Did you know that Baby Boomers pre-paid their Social Security, and that what they paid has been stolen?
Back in 2005, the economist and author Allen Smith noted that Alan Greenspan was the biggest culprit of all in the Social Security fraud.
"As Chairman of the 1982 Greenspan Commission, he argued that the solution to the baby boomer problem was to tax, tax, tax, those baby boomers up front. In 1983, Congress enacted the recommendations of the Greenspan Commission, which included a sharp hike in Social Security payroll taxes.
"Up until that point, the Social Security program had operated on a pay-as-you-go system, with each generation responsible only for paying enough taxes to fund the retirement of the previous generation. But the strictly pay-as-you-go principle was abandoned with the enactment of the 1983 legislation.
"All the numbers we currently hear about the changing ratio of workers to retirees were hashed out by the Greenspan Commission in 1982. It was clear to the commission that, if the nation continued on a strictly pay-as-you-go system, when the baby boomers retired we would have all the problems that President Bush falsely claims we have today. Therefore, to fix the baby boomer problem the boomers were hit with a double whammy. Taxes were raised by enough to force the baby boomers to pay for both the retirement of the previous generation and the cost of their own retirement.
"This money was to have been invested in marketable Treasury bonds which would have had the effect of paying down the publicly held national debt while the surpluses were flowing in, so the bonds could be gradually sold back to the public when the baby boomers retired. This was the closest thing to putting the money in the bank, and then withdrawing it when it was needed, that was available to the government.
"If the surplus Social Security money had been invested in marketable Treasury Bonds as intended, there would today be approximately $1.6 trillion of real assets in the trust fund, and by 2018 there would be approximately $3.7 trillion in real assets. That would be sufficient to guarantee full benefit payments until at least 2042, and perhaps until 2052. The youngest of the baby boomers will be 78 years old by 2042.
"When Greenspan says it will be necessary to cut future benefits because 'we are over-committed' he is suggesting that the boomers, who have already paid twice for their Social Security, should be cheated out of part of their benefits. Greenspan sat quietly by over all the years that the Social Security surplus money was being looted, and he never once warned the American people that their Social Security contributions were being misused. "However, he has no problem speaking out today in order to help Bush dismantle the Social Security program that they have both hated for decades.
The Social Security fraud started under President George H.W. Bush, the 'read-my-lips-no-new-taxes' president who began spending the Social Security surplus revenue as if it were general fund revenue. This practice outraged Senator Moynihan who had been a member of the Greenspan Commission and a strong supporter of the 1983 efforts to strengthen the Social Security system. Moynihan introduced legislation in 1990 to repeal the 1983 payroll tax increase in an effort to keep Bush from getting his hands on the money and spending it. Moynihan argued that it would be better to cut payroll taxes and return to the "pay-as-you-go" system that existed prior to the 1983 payroll tax increase than to continue collecting the extra taxes and misusing the funds. President Bush's response to Moynihan's proposal was, "It is an effort to get me to raise taxes on the American people by the charade of cutting them, or cut benefits. And I am not going to do it to the older people of this country." Bush's words make it clear that he was not about to give up the surplus Social Security money that had become an important source of revenue for his spending. The American people did not know that he was spending their Social Security tax dollars, but they would certainly know about any tax increase he might have to propose if he was not allowed to continue spending Social Security money." "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 12, 2008 7:14 PM:

" Obamagasm wrote on Aug 12, 2008 6:30 PM:

" I meant to say was that Social Security was never meant to be the primary means of retirement- it WAS however set up as a permanent program. And I agree Bush has been spending like a Democrat. And I never saw any Democrats trying to stop him.

A rare moment: a right winger owning up to a mistake. And let me add: I never saw any Republicans trying to stop him either. LOL!

And may I add that's quite an elitist opinion you have of the downtrodden.

I guess we won't be calling you a compassionate conservative, huh?

Actually, you sound like a very angry, bitter and sad person. I really feel sorry for you. It must be difficult going through life with such bitterness and obvious hate in your heart for your fellow human beings. "

RushBaby wrote on Aug 12, 2008 7:18 PM:

" The War Costs Too Much

An increasingly popular talking point of the antiwar party is that the war simply costs too much and that we must end it and refocus on domestic priorities. This talking point has a number of variants:

The $3 trillion war. Simplistic economic analysis declares that the war has cost the taxpayers $3 trillion since its inception, implying that this is a $3 trillion dead loss to the economy a price too high to pay.

Modern economics has long understood that the notion of a one-for-one guns-versus-butter trade-off is simply wrong. A high proportion of money spent on defense goes back into the U.S. economy in the form of salaries paid to the more than 5 million Americans employed directly or indirectly by the Defense Department, and payments to the defense industry and the long and complex supply chains from which they draw their raw materials. Military spending has traditionally been a form of economic stimulus, and wars more commonly end recessions or depressions than start them. Thats not a good reason to start a war, but neither is it a good reason to lose one. The impact of the current war on the U.S. economy, finally, is far smaller than the impact of previous major conflicts. Military spending in World War II ranged from 17.8 percent of GDP to 37.5 percent; in Korea from 5.0 percent (in 1950 7.4 percent in 1951) to 14.2 percent; in Vietnam from 7.4 percent to 9.4 percent. Current expenditures on the Iraq and Afghanistan Wars bring total defense expenditures to something well below 5 percent of GDP. Even granting the simplistic and misleading $3 trillion figure, $3 trillion is about 5 percent of the nearly $60 trillion American GDP over the five years of the war.

By Frederick W. Kagan "

Rotty wrote on Aug 12, 2008 7:19 PM:

" No prob, bud.
Laterz
:-) "

RushBaby wrote on Aug 12, 2008 7:22 PM:

" Another Liberal lie- The war is consuming money that would otherwise be spent on more important domestic programs.

If only our schools were fully funded and the Air Force had to have bake-sales to buy bombers.... Well, the Air Force is just about at the bake-sale level thanks to consistent under-spending on defense since 1991. But if we stopped the war tomorrow, would our schools get all the money those who make this argument think they need? Of course not. The war is being funded on an emergency basis (for good or ill) and its cost has not been offset by tax increases (as the antiwar party periodically points out). In the real world, there is no way that even a Democratic Congress would spend $100 billion a year in non-offset emergency authorizations for education or health care, even if some war critics think that they would like it to do so. As for increasing domestic spending, those who believe that we should raise taxes and spend more money on domestic programs can still advocate that policy, whatever its wisdom. This isnt an argument about the cost of the war its an argument about whether we want to have higher taxes to pay for increased domestic spending. Alternatively, it can be an argument about the cost-benefit of government borrowing versus tax increases, or of government borrowing versus economic stimulus in the form of government spending. It is not about the one-for-one tradeoff of dollars spent on the war versus dollars spent on schools and health care.

By Frederick W. Kagan "

Obamagasm wrote on Aug 12, 2008 7:49 PM:

" Actually Harry several Republicans did vote against Bush liberal spending habits. And I'm not bitter or sad. I am angry because the waste of entitlement programs is coming out of my paycheck. I work for a company that does contracting work on several subsidized housing units in Central Illinois and let me tell you, working around those units for months on end, you start to see some clear patterns. If you think most of the welfare money is going to the needy, then you're delusional. "

Hahvahd wrote on Aug 12, 2008 8:24 PM:

" Mistakenly posted this on the wrong thread a little earlier, so here goes again:

Obamagasm, how about holding both parents responsible for the children they create instead of just bashing single mothers. If those missing fathers took care of their offspring, the "nanny state" as you call it would not have to do so. Oh, and yeah, what a lucrative racket those single moms run. Yes, I see them just wallowing in the dough, just like those tax-subsidized oilmen and businessmen and farmers do. Funny, I don't see any of the latter having to resort to living in trailer parks, though. . . . The thing that gets me most about you conservative lunatics, though, is that you violently oppose abortion, yet you'll also pi55 and moan about any governmental assistance going to those children that weren't aborted. Are you all women-haters, or just most of you? "

Obamagasm wrote on Aug 12, 2008 8:56 PM:

" First off Hahvahd I worked around these people for long periods of time so don't try to tell me what I saw.
Not all of them were deadbeats but most of them were. I've never seen so many able body people loafing the day away like I did at those places. Now that's not to say there weren't people that really did need assistance. I saw plenty of those. Like the mentally handicapped or disabled in one form or another. And of the able body ones, it seemed to be some of the young moms that were really trying to better themselves. Now I'm not against my tax dollars helping the truly needy. I believe we have an obligation as a society and as a Democracy. I just think there is entirely too much waste and fraud, and I think the Democrats have no intentions of fixing it. Oh and I am against abortion but I'm not violently against it. You need to watch those conservative stereotypes that you openminded Liberals seem to have. "

RushBaby wrote on Aug 12, 2008 9:25 PM:

" Obamagasm- I have an adult sister who lives in a community home for the mentally disabled and the state and federal funding is tight.

and it's the waste and fraud that you mentioned that should be addressed to solve the problem.

We don't need to pour more tax dollars down the rat hole of these programs; we need to clean them up so the people in need get the help.

And Hahvahd- if you're really concerned about governmental assistance going to those children that weren't aborted- then I suggest you take a good, hard, honest look at Barrack Obama's record on denying government assistance for babies who survived abortions. He was the loan Democrat who tried to block the aid. Not even Hillary or Ted Kennedy could bring themselves to stoop that low. "

miltmart wrote on Aug 12, 2008 10:14 PM:

" The quote is "are there no workhouses?"

Signed: a dumb conservative "

out-there wrote on Aug 12, 2008 10:20 PM:

" The radio show host can't keep his facts strait either.It works better when you can twist the facts.
Heres a ideal why not have the Repub audience can go vote for Hillary "

miltmart wrote on Aug 12, 2008 10:48 PM:

" The Question wrote on Aug 12, 2008 9:16 AM:
" I have been both a liberal and a conservative at times in my life, and I have figured out why American conservatives hate liberals so much.
Conservatives loathe liberals because they know them to be morally superior. Liberals actually practice the enlightened, civilized virtues of empathy, compassion and reason. Those are values to which conservatives pay only pay grudging lip service.
Right wingers, who are creatures of fear and appetite, don't really understand moral philosophy, despite the fact that they yap about it constantly. But they know liberals tend to be genuine in their moral concerns, and they can't stand it.
They reserve for liberals a level of hatred that only someone who realizes he's inferior can nurse for those whom he secretly knows to be his betters. "******He who has all the answers: I usually try to ignore and mostly don't read your rants but I had the misfortune to stumble on this one. I have no idea who you are and I hope in this life I never have the misfortune to actually meet someone who could not only believe something like this but have the nerve to put it in writing. "

Early Bird wrote on Aug 13, 2008 5:24 AM:

" It seems to me that the Bush administration has taken us to the place that Eisenhower warned us about in his farewell address to the nation.

Sadly for us, his warning went unheeded. We invaded and are occupying a country that had nothing to do with the war on terror, and left another country with the job half done. All of this to satisfy the ego of a underachieving alcoholic party boy, who turned this country over to the military contractors via his unwise choice for VP, Dick Cheney.

Over 4000 young Americans have paid the ultimate price for these two maniacs.

Literally billions of dollars have be wasted, embezzled and gone unaccounted for by several unethical and inept contractors whose only real qualification's were being connected to this administration through politics.

One particular company getting preferential treatment (billions in no-bid contracts), Halliburton has even been accused of selling our troops contaminated water. This is a disgrace.

Too make it worse, John McCain wants us to vote for him and continue this downward spiral of our great nation.

No thanks, John! It's time for a change. "

The Question wrote on Aug 13, 2008 7:45 AM:

" Well put, Bird. "

The Question wrote on Aug 13, 2008 7:47 AM:

" I hope in this life I never have the misfortune to actually meet someone who could not only believe something like this but have the nerve to put it in writing.
------
Poor, poor Miltie. The truth hurts. "

The Question wrote on Aug 13, 2008 7:53 AM:

" Don't forget, Bird, that at least 16 U.S. troops have been electrocuted by KBR's faulty wiring. KBR is a former Halliburton company, so you could say it was Cheney's greed and preferential no-bid contracts that killed them. But hey, as Rummy said, American troops are fungible, right? "

The Question wrote on Aug 13, 2008 7:56 AM:

" Here's compassionate conservatism and the Bush economic plan, all in one shot.
"You work three jobs? Uniquely American, isn't it? I mean, that is fantastic that you're doing that." George W. Bush to a divorced mother of three, Omaha, Nebraska, Feb. 4, 2005. "

even steven wrote on Aug 13, 2008 10:26 AM:

" Just as I suspected about the Question. He doesn't list anything he's personally done to help his community or his fellow man, but rather comes back with some petty insult to me. It's funny, but he epitomizes the very type of hateful leftist the letter writer was talking about... yet is too myopic to even see it. "

miltmart wrote on Aug 13, 2008 10:27 AM:

" With every post some of you prove that the hed on this letter is completely accurate. "

The Question wrote on Aug 13, 2008 11:24 AM:

" Here's how the Bush Pentagon tried to cover up for KBR electrocuting a U.S. soldier.
On Jan. 2, 2008, Army Staff Sergeant Ryan Maseth was electrocuted while taking a shower at the Legion Security Forces Building in Baghdad. Press reports have indicated that contractor KBR, formerly a Halliburton company, ignored repeated warnings about the unsafe wiring.
In memo to House Oversight Committee, Pentagon Inspector General Gordon Heddell claimed there was no credible evidence that either KBR or the DOD knew about the hazards beforehand. Information uncovered by the Committee, however, contradicts Heddell.
In a Committee hearing, Chairman Henry Waxman (D-CA) released a work order from July 8, 2007 - months before Maseths death in which Sergeant Justin Hummer, the previous occupant of the room, reported to KBR:
"Pipes have voltage. Get shocked in shower."
Furthermore, in sworn testimony on June 6, 2008, Hummer said he was shocked at least four times in the shower between June and October 2007. In each case, KBR personnel tried to fix the hazard.
The Pentagon IG admitted he was wrong to claim KBR was not aware of the electrical danger:
WAXMAN: This seems to be credible evidence that KBR was aware of this hazard last July.
HEDDELL: I do agree with you, Mr. Chairman.
Your military-industrial complex at work. "

father bob wrote on Aug 13, 2008 11:40 AM:

" more mccain graft...

Randy Scheunemann earned about $70,000 serving as Sen. John McCain's top foreign policy adviser between the January 2007 and May 15, 2008.

During the same period, the government of Georgia paid his firm $290,000 in lobbying fees.

Today's Washington Post reports a stark illustration of the conflict of interest that Scheunemann faced while advising McCain on foreign policy matters related to the former Soviet Republic and also working for the Georgia embassy.

On April 17, McCain got on the phone with Georgia President Mikheil Saakashvili about Russian efforts to gain leverage over two of Georgia's troubled provinces. That same day, McCain issued a public statement condemning Russia and expressing strong support for the Georgian position.

And also on that same day, Georgia signed a new, $200,000 lobbying contract with Scheunemann's firm, Orion Strategies, according to the Post. "

The Question wrote on Aug 13, 2008 11:44 AM:

" Dave Lindorff notes he was stunned by the graphic depictions of Russian brutality in Gori and other cities that were massively bombed and shelled, with apartment buildings collapsed into rubble, children killed, and civilians targeted.
"The New York Times, in particular, had photographic images of dead Georgian soldiers, of charred bodies, of hysterical mothers. On NBC News, Russian planes were shown dropping their loads of bombs on apartments.
"We read that President Bush condemned the Russian invasion of another nation and called for an immediate ceasefire. Yet there was not one word of astonishment or challenge from reporters or commentators or editorial writers at this stunningly cynical statement coming from a leader who himself is responsible for the blatantly illegal and much more destructive invasion of another nation."
"We watch and read voluminous reports on this relatively small Russian war against its neighbor and former domestic province (Georgia was one of the SSRs in the old USSR), and meanwhile there is almost nothing being reported about the continuing five-year-old war launched by Bush and Cheney against Iraq. And certainly, over the course of five years we have gotten no visual depiction of that war even approaching the scenes that were on display from the front in Georgia.
"Apparently, in the view of our corporate news editors and managers, it is important for Americans to fully witness the bloody horrors of war when that war is being fought by Russia, but we are to be carefully protected from seeing such things when they are being perpetrated by our own centurions. We aren't even allowed to see the grievous injuries and death being suffered by our own troops." "

father bob wrote on Aug 13, 2008 12:05 PM:

" here ya go!

The non-partisan group Campaign Money Watch has come up with another startling figure for those who follow the presidential money chase.

According to an analysis performed by the group, McCain's top fundraisers and aides have collected nearly $1 billion in fees from U.S. companies in the past decade -- specifically, $930,949,819. Using numbers provided by the Center for Responsive Politics, the group also found that officials of those very same companies have given nearly $12 million to McCain's presidential campaign, so far.

"The McCain campaign relies on big money lobbyists, and they'll rely on him," said David Donnelly, director of Campaign Money Watch. "In the 'you-scratch-my-back, I'll-scratch-yours' world of Washington, $931 million gets the special interests the best government money can buy. But just think of the payday these lobbyists might expect in a McCain Administration." "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 13, 2008 1:20 PM:

" Are there no more poorhouses? The quote is correct, miltie. Once again you're confused. You're apparently referring to the Dickens line, uttered by Ebenezer Scrooge, I believe. I borrowed my quote from Rum, Romanism & Rebellion, and was responding to a remark made by another poster.

See, this is why I have to keep correcting you. Considering it a compliment that I'm willing to spend so much time educating you. With some work, you could be my star pupil. LOL!

Signed: a smart Liberal "

The Question wrote on Aug 13, 2008 2:55 PM:

" I wonder where this shooter got his hate training?
---------
Police say a man suspected of bursting into the Arkansas Democratic Party headquarters and shooting the party chairman has died.
Police say the suspect burst into the office of Party Chairman Bill Gwatney and fired three shots. Gwatney is hospitalized in critical condition.
Police Lt. Terry Hastings says authorities chased the suspect into Grant County, south of Little Rock, and that he was fatally wounded during a 30-mile chase. "

The Question wrote on Aug 13, 2008 3:15 PM:

" What a profitable business war is for connected Republicans.
Juan Cole notes that the Bush administration will have spent $100 billion on contractors in Iraq by the end of this year.
"In my view one of the great dangers of involving civilian firms in war so much is that you can then expect them and their employees to lobby Congress for wars, and $100 billion would pay for a lot of congressional campaigns. The army could deliver food to the soldiers, moreover, more cheaply and efficiently. In 2003, US troops suffered in Iraq because civilian contractors for services didn't want to try to operate in a war zone!
"About 20 percent of the cost of the Iraq War has gone to paying contractors,and there are 190,000 of their employees in Iraq. That is more than all the multinational forces combined!" "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Aug 13, 2008 3:39 PM:

" It's good that these blogs are opinion based and the only "facts" are those presented by the resident socialists bloggers here....

fb wrote, "The non-partisan group Campaign Money Watch has come up with another startling figure for those who follow the presidential money chase."

What a load....

Yeah, like the Economic Policy Institute and the Brookings Institute are non-partisan, as has been represented in the past by our resident socialists here....

Campaign Money Watch is a liberal political advocacy organization and a project of Public Campaign Action Fund. It's funding comes from wealthy Democratic activists, including non-American financier George Soros.

And we know PCAF is un-biased. Why else would the Public Campaign Action Fund spend $175,000 to target DeLay with articles on its blog the "Daily DeLay" and with television and radio advertising. They threw $100K at Reed and

Oh that's right they were just sitting on the sidelines....

Let's see if they go after ex-pres candidate John Edwards for his fiduciary irregularities with his mistress...

bet they won't.... "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Aug 13, 2008 3:46 PM:

" 21 posts/1 blogger/1 topic = 1 ? "

father bob wrote on Aug 13, 2008 3:57 PM:

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Aug 13, 2008 3:39 PM:
What a load....

Yeah, like the Economic Policy Institute and the Brookings Institute are non-partisan, as has been represented in the past by our resident socialists here....""""

spoken like a goosestepping brownshirt. "

father bob wrote on Aug 13, 2008 4:04 PM:

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Aug 13, 2008 3:39 PM:
" It's good that these blogs are opinion based and the only "facts" are those presented by the resident socialists bloggers here....""""

obviously you're not denying the 1 BILLION then, just the roots of the group investigating....thanks for making my point! "

RushBaby wrote on Aug 13, 2008 4:23 PM:

" Here ya go bobby!

The Adler Planetarium has found a lot more money since its trustees began bundling for Obama:

TheNextRight.Com- "The Chairman of the Board of Trustees, Frank Clark, stands out amongst Obama supporters. On Sen. Obamas website, Mr. Clark is listed as a bundler who raised in excess of $200,000 for the Senators Presidential campaign. In 2004, Mr. Clark donated $5,000 to the then State Senator Obamas U.S. Senate bid. In 2005, Mr. Clark became the Chairman of the Board at Adler Planetarium, and in 2006 Sen. Obama earmarked $300,000 to the Planetarium. Then, in the same year that Mr. Clarks involvement in the Obama campaign skyrocketed to raising an excess of $200,000, Sen. Obamas earmark for the Adler Planetarium increased tenfold to $3,000,000.

Mr. Clark isnt the only problematic donor. Two of the Vice Chairmen of the Board, Brian Cressey and Peter Thompson are also significant donors. Between donations from Mr. Thompson and the Cressey household, Sen. Obama received $13,800. The most significant donor here is Mr. Cressey. As a first time donor, Mr. Cressey gave the maximum possible individual donation in essentially one big check. What makes this even more troubling is that Mr. Cressey had never given to Sen. Obama before 2008, the year in which the Adler Planetariums earmark increased tenfold.

The fact that three ranking members of the Adler Planetariums Board donated huge sums of money (at least $200,000) is interesting by itself. The fact that these enormous contributions came in the same year that Sen. Obama increased their earmark by 900% is truly unsettling."
------

Unsettling, business as usual, or both? Barack Obama won momentum and eventually his partys nomination by casting himself as something new, an outsider who could reform Washington. Unfortunately, as this shows, it looks like Obama feels right at home inside the Beltway. Hes already granting taxpayer money as spoils to his bundlers, and hes only been in the Senate three years.

Of course, if voters really want change, they could elect John McCain. He doesnt earmark funds at all. Obama offers nothing more than cheap sloganeering on top of a well-seasoned Chicago machine politician." "

RushBaby wrote on Aug 13, 2008 4:26 PM:

" The Washington Post Reported That Obama Received A Sweetheart Mortgage Deal For His Chicago Mansion:

Obama Received A Discounted Rate On His $1.32 Million Mortgage For His Georgian Mansion In Chicago. "Shortly after joining the U.S. Senate and while enjoying a surge in income, Barack Obama bought a $1.65 million restored Georgian mansion in an upscale Chicago neighborhood. To finance the purchase, he secured a $1.32 million loan from Northern Trust in Illinois. The freshman Democratic senator received a discount. He locked in an interest rate of 5.625 percent on the 30-year fixed-rate mortgage, below the average for such loans at the time in Chicago." (Joe Stephens, "Obama Got Discount On Home Loan," The Washington Post, 7/2/08)

"The Loan Was Unusually Large, Known In Banker Lingo As A 'Super Super Jumbo.' Obama Paid No Origination Fee Or Discount Points, As Some Consumers Do To Reduce Their Interest Rates." (Joe Stephens, "Obama Got Discount On Home Loan," The Washington Post, 7/2/08)

Obama's Discounted Rate Could Have Saved Him More Than $300 Per Month. "Compared with the average terms offered at the time in Chicago, Obama's rate could have saved him more than $300 per month." (Joe Stephens, "Obama Got Discount On Home Loan," The Washington Post, 7/2/08)

The Obamas Secured Their Discounted Home Loan Despite The Fact That They Had "No Prior Relationship With Northern Trust When They Applied For The Loan." "The Obamas had no prior relationship with Northern Trust when they applied for the loan. They received an oral commitment on Feb. 4, 2005, and locked in the rate of 5.625 percent, the campaign said. On that date, HSH data show, the average rate in Chicago for a 30-year fixed-rate jumbo loan with no points was about 5.94 percent." (Joe Stephens, "Obama Got Discount On Home Loan," The Washington Post, 7/2/08) "

RushBaby wrote on Aug 13, 2008 4:26 PM:

" Obama Also Has Received $71,000 In Campaign Contributions From Northern Trust Employees. "Since 1990, Northern Trust employees have donated more than $739,000 to federal campaigns, including $71,000 to Obama, according to the Center for Responsive Politics." (Joe Stephens, "Obama Got Discount On Home Loan," The Washington Post, 7/2/08)

FLASHBACK: Obama Paid $300,000 Less Than The Asking Price For His Mansion, While Tony Rezko's Wife Paid Full Price For A Vacant Lot Next Door On The Very Same Day. "Two years ago, Obama bought a mansion on the South Side, in the Kenwood neighborhood, from a doctor. On the same day, [Antoin 'Tony'] Rezko's wife, Rita Rezko, bought the vacant lot next door from the same seller. The doctor had listed the properties for sale together. He sold the house to Obama for $300,000 below the asking price. The doctor got his asking price on the lot from Rezko's wife." (Tim Novak, "Obama And His Rezko Ties," Chicago, 4/23/07) Sun-Times

The Seller Of Obama's Home "Wanted To Sell Both Properties At The Same Time." "On the same day Obama closed on his house, Rezko's wife bought the adjacent empty lot, meeting the condition of the seller who wanted to sell both properties at the same time." (Brian Ross and Rhonda Schwartz, "The Rezko Connection," ABC News' "The Blotter" Blog, abcnews.go.com, 1/10/08)
Obama Later Purchased A Portion Of Rezko's Land For $104,500; It Was Valued At $40,500. "Later, the Obamas bought a 10-foot-by-150-foot piece of the lot for $104,500. An appraisal put the value of the strip at $40,500, a spokesman said, but Obama considered it fair to pay one-sixth of the original price for one-sixth of the lot." (Peter Slevin, "Obama Says He Regrets Land Deal With Fundraiser," The Washington Post, 12/17/06) "

RushBaby wrote on Aug 13, 2008 4:27 PM:

" Jim Johnson, A Former CEO Of Fannie Mae And Former Top Campaign Adviser, Also Received Sweetheart Housing Deal:

Obama's Former Top Adviser, Jim Johnson, Resigned "After His Favorable Countrywide Loan Became Public." "Within Obama's presidential campaign organization, former Fannie Mae chief executive James A. Johnson resigned abruptly as head of the vice presidential search committee after his favorable Countrywide loan became public." (Joe Stephens, "Obama Got Discount On Home Loan," The Washington Post, 7/2/08)

Johnson Received Special Loans From Countrywide Financial CEO Angelo Mozilo. "Countrywide Financial Corp. makes mortgage loans through a vast network of offices, brokers and call centers. But a few customers have gotten their loans a special way: through Countrywide Chief Executive Angelo Mozilo. These borrowers, known internally as 'friends of Angelo' or FoA, include two former CEOs of Fannie Mae, the biggest buyer of Countrywide's mortgages, say people familiar with the matter. One was James Johnson, a longtime Democratic Party power and an adviser to Sen. Barack Obama's campaign, who this past week was named to a panel that is vetting running-mate possibilities for the presumed nominee." (Glenn R. Simpson and James R. Hagerty, "Countrywide Friends Got Good Loans," The Wall Street Journal, 6/7/08)

While CEO Of Fannie Mae, Johnson And Mozilo Worked Closely And Maintained A "Close Friendship." "From 1991 to 1998, Mr. Johnson served as CEO of the Federal National Mortgage Association, also known as Fannie Mae, which worked closely with Countrywide, one of the nation's leading lenders and loan servicing companies. In 1996, Mr. Johnson named Mr. Mozilo as chairman of Fannie Mae's national advisory council. A 1999 article in the American Banker said the two men had a 'close friendship.'" (Josh Gerstein, "Top Talent Scout For Obama Tied To Subprime Lender," The New York Sun, 6/9/08) "

RushBaby wrote on Aug 13, 2008 4:28 PM:

" "Property Records Show Mr. Johnson Has Received More Than $7 Million In Loans From Countrywide Since 1998, The First Coming In The Waning Days Of His Fannie Mae Tenure." (Glenn R. Simpson and James R. Hagerty, "Countrywide Friends Got Good Loans," The Wall Street Journal, 6/7/08)

At Least Two Of The Mortgages Were At Rates "Below Market Averages." "The Journal said at least two of the mortgages, among a series of loans made available to people Countrywide officials called 'friends of Angelo,' were at rates below market averages, though it is difficult to predict a market rate without access to nonpublic information about a borrower's credit history and other factors that can reduce interest charges on a loan." (Josh Gerstein, "Top Talent Scout For Obama Tied To Subprime Lender," The New York Sun, 6/9/08) "

RushBaby wrote on Aug 13, 2008 4:28 PM:

" Penny Pritzker, Obama's National Finance Chair And Campaign Bundler, Owned A Failed Bank That Specialized In Subprime Lending:

Penny Pritzker Is The National Finance Chairman For Barack Obama. "And Penny Pritzker, a Chicago philanthropist, serves as Mr. Obama's national finance chairman even as her brother, Jay Robert, holds fund-raisers across town for Mrs. Clinton." (Jodi Kantor, "In Democratic Families, Politics Makes For Estranged Bedfellows," The New York Times, 2/4/08)

Pritzker Is A Bundler For Obama's Presidential Campaign And Has Committed To Raising Over $200,000. (Obama For America Website, www.barackobama.com, Accessed 5/19 /08)

The Pritzker Family Co-Owned Superior Bank FSB. "Ms. Pritzker, who declined to be interviewed, has confronted other challenges, including the 2001 collapse of Superior Bank FSB, which the Pritzker family co-owned, resulting in a $460-million payment to federal regulators, and a rift over family assets that settled out of court in 2005. She oversees the Pritzker family's non-hotel real estate interests and chairs its TransUnion LLC credit bureau." (Steven R. Strahler, "Penny Pritzker," Chicago Crain's Business, 5/7/07)

"Superior Bank Specialized In 'Sub-Prime Lending,' Which Is Making Loans To Underserved Borrowers, Who Are Often Poor Minorities." (Kathleen Day, "Regulators Probe Bank Loan To Co-Owner," The Washington Post, 7/31/01) "

RushBaby wrote on Aug 13, 2008 4:33 PM:

" Surprise: Obamas taken more money from major oil company employees than McCain;

What we knew is that Obamas prone to running weaselly, holier-than-thou ads about his opponents being in the tank for big oil even though he himself is rolling in dough from oil company employees. He tried it on Hillary in the primary and got a care package from FactCheck.org and a 30-second rebuttal ad from the Clinton campaign for his trouble. As Ed once said when writing about some of the fundraisers organized for him by oil executives, Obama lies about this in a particularly bald manner. Which brings us to McCain, whose running mate this year is the Exxon Corporation if the DNC is to be believed. Maverick does take more oil money than Obama does overall (three times as much, although the two were roughly even last year per CRPs graph), but the walls of the house from which The One casts his stones are glassier than hed have you believe:

OpenSecrets.org- "Through June, Exxon employees have given Obama $42,100 to McCains $35,166. Chevron favors Obama $35,157 to $28,500, and Obama edges out McCain with BP $16,046 vs. $11,500. McCain leads the money race with nearly every other top giver in the oil and gas industry, though Koch Industries, Valero, Marathon Oil, Occidental Petroleum, ConocoPhillips, the list goes on. (You can see detail on all these companies in the spreadsheet linked below.) McCain also has a big edge with Hess Corp. $91,000 to Obamas $8,000 which has gotten some attention. And, overall, McCains campaign has gotten three times more money from the industry than Obamas has $1.3 million compared to about $394,000.

Comparing Obamas and McCains financial ties to the oil industry, theres no question that McCain has benefited more from the industrys contributions, just as his Republican Party has for years and years. But Obamas edge with the oil producers Americans know best and might be cursing most these days makes it harder for him to continue to tar McCain as the industrys darling." "

RushBaby wrote on Aug 13, 2008 4:36 PM:

" Shocker: Obama takes lobbyist money

Barack Obama announced that my party would not take donations from federally-registered lobbyists or their PACs. Somehow, that news failed to make it to his own campaign. Roll Call took a peek at lobbying disclosures for the first half of 2008, and discovered $15,000 of donations from dozens of lobbyists:

RollCall July 30, 2008 - "Lobbyists might be persona non grata on the presidential campaign trail, but that hasnt put them off of donating to the presumptive Democratic nominee, Sen. Barack Obama (Ill.).

Obama has pledged to forgo contributions from federally registered lobbyists. Yet, more than 40 have donated nearly $15,000 to his presidential campaign this year, according to records recently filed with the Senate and House.

The latest tally, as of Tuesday, comes as lobbyists have begun filing their LD-203 forms, a requirement of the Honest Government and Open Leadership Act of 2007. The provision requires lobbyists and all lobbying organizations to file forms to the Senate and House by July 30 and Jan. 30 that list ties to political action committees, federal campaign contributions over $200 and expenditures for events that honor officials covered by the law." "

father bob wrote on Aug 13, 2008 5:06 PM:

" wheeeeewwwwwwwweeeeeee!!!!

how about a condensed 20-words-or-less-version?.....i'm not even going to try and read that. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Aug 13, 2008 5:37 PM:

" As always fb, thank you for your profound insight and input. How lacking in profundity these blogs would be without you. You are truly a giant here.

As for the "spoken like a goosestepping brownshirt"...as a compassionate, non-judgmental liberal, I'd like to thank you for your non-pejorative reply.

as you wrote...
obviously you're not denying the 1 BILLION then, just the roots of the group investigating....thanks for making my point! "

Obviously you're not denying that the references you often cite as non-partisan are indeed partisan. I would say you do this with forethought in an attempt to mislead and distort, but... let's just say I know that's not the case. "

The Question wrote on Aug 13, 2008 6:04 PM:

" So the state Democratic chairman in Arkansas is gunned down out of the blue. A gay-hating killer looking to murder liberals attacks a Unitarian church in Tennessee. And the alleged anthrax terrorist, a registered Democrat, for some reason decides to murder prominent Democratic senators and members of the press.
So if its the liberals who are preaching all this hate, why it is that its the people on the left who are getting murdered? "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 13, 2008 6:36 PM:

" " As always fb, thank you for your profound insight and input. How lacking in profundity these blogs would be without you. You are truly a giant here.

And how shallow this site would be without our resident pseudo-intellectual windbag. Sorry fb, I couldn't resist. LOL! "

RushBaby wrote on Aug 13, 2008 8:37 PM:

" " why it is that its the people on the left who are getting murdered?"
-----

I didn't realize that murders of Conservatives ceased in this country.
I guess since the news doesn't designate any murder victims as Conservative- they must not be huh.

Brilliant Liberal mind you have there Question. "

RushBaby wrote on Aug 13, 2008 8:44 PM:

" Heart-ache: Democratic convention protesters to be held in mini-Gitmo

Very bare bones and very reminiscent of a political prisoner camp or a concentration camp, says one Code Pink member after viewing the footage; subtract the crematoria, starvation, back-breaking labor, and any real possibility of being locked up for longer than a few hours and youll see the harrowing truth in her words. What makes a small cell with bars and a metal toilet any more or less dehumanizing than this makeshift holding pen? Nothing, except (a) here you have to make do with a common cell, like animals on a farm, instead of your own individual cage, like animals in a shelter, and (b) its romantic and flattering to the collective ego of the heroes of the revolution to think they might be getting the same treatment as political dissidents or Al Qaeda. Theyre dangerous, man; would the city be building this if they werent? Which is to say, theyd be disappointed if the city hadnt.

Ah yes those peaceful Liberals! LOL! "

RushBaby wrote on Aug 13, 2008 8:51 PM:

" Hey, anybody remember those "peaceful" Liberal halcyon days of anti-war protestors at Grant Park back in 1968?

I think we have some of them posting in here.

Let's have a big fist-pumping round of "Death to America"! "

RushBaby wrote on Aug 13, 2008 8:56 PM:

" Update: An already awful story gets worse: Gwatneys died of his injuries.

The Arkansas Times claims sources are working to confirm tentative information that the suspect was a former employee of a Gwatney car dealership. Bob Owens speculated on that earlier, although in that case Im not sure what the shooter would be doing at Baptist headquarters. Anyway, this reminds me of when some nut went into Hillarys New Hampshire headquarters last year professing to have a bomb and terrorizing the people inside for a good six hours while the blogosphere waited with bated breath to see what his motive might be. The Narrative was already written and ready to publish; all they needed was confirmation from the cops, which never came because the guy turned out to be a garden variety wacko.
By Allahpundit "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Aug 13, 2008 9:42 PM:

" HP wrote...And how shallow this site would be without our resident pseudo-intellectual windbag. Sorry fb, I couldn't resist. LOL! "

Dearest friend Harry Potter,

Thank you for noting my apparent intellect. I am sure my intellect would be much more impressive to you if we were to communicate in person rather than through cyberspace. As you have noted concerning my verbosity, it is only countered by your brevity and obvious clarity of thought on every blog you post.

Furthermore, I find your posts to always be of the highest caliber, encouraging civil political discourse, at every opportunity. I find myself shuttering in anticipation, as I know others do, of your every post, especially concerning the descriptive names that you use. The descriptive names that you conjure for posters of contrary thought illustrate the creativity and clarity of mind only someone like you could possess.

With regards from your fellow communist,

NeoCon Academician "

lefty wrote on Aug 14, 2008 12:03 AM:

" NEOCON ACADEMICIAN, you use big words! And your levels of "snark" are out of this world! Ohohohohohohoh! And it was really clever and original how you ended your statement by implying your leftist target is a Commie! Oh NEOCON ACADEMICIAN, I bet you read books and listen to talk radio! Go get em, tiger! "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 14, 2008 7:29 AM:

" Dearest friend Harry Potter,

Thank you for noting my apparent intellect. I am sure my intellect would be much more impressive to you if we were to communicate in person rather than through cyberspace. As you have noted concerning my verbosity, it is only countered by your brevity and obvious clarity of thought on every blog you post.

And we all wondered what happened to Michael Strange. Now we know.

That communist remark clinched it for me.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that your connection to academia involves a broom and a mop, right? LOL!

There is a reason I referred to your intellectualism as pseudo.

Have a great day Micha...oops ...I mean professor. "

father bob wrote on Aug 14, 2008 9:44 AM:

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Aug 13, 2008 9:42 PM:Dearest friend Harry Potter,

Thank you for noting my apparent intellect.""""

dammit HP, you didn't acknowledge his narcissism and arrogance. what's up with you?...... "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 14, 2008 10:51 AM:

" Sorry fb, but you know how I can't resist feeding the monkeys on here. LOL! "

father bob wrote on Aug 14, 2008 12:29 PM:

" According to an analysis of campaign contributions by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, Democrat Barack Obama has received nearly six times as much money from troops deployed overseas at the time of their contributions than has Republican John McCain, and the fiercely anti-war Ron Paul, though he suspended his campaign for the Republican nomination months ago, has received more than four times McCain's haul. "

The Question wrote on Aug 14, 2008 1:37 PM:

" I didn't realize that murders of Conservatives ceased in this country.
-----------
Please name me the prominent right wingers who have been gunned down lately, Neo. I seem to have lost count.
Which right wingers were shot in church by someone who said he wanted to kill conservatives? Which state Republican chairman was murdered in his office? Which terrorist sent anthrax to Republican senators?
For the life of me, I cannot remember. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Aug 14, 2008 3:50 PM:

" Lefty, fb, and hp..
I am truly taken aback.
I dispense platitudes and you alls response is to hurl invectives toward my character.
The use of invectives is to be expected from hate-filled conservatives, and not from peace-loving, non-judgmental liberals such as you, isnt it?
Yes, lefty I have read a few books.
I wonder fb, how am I narcissist and arrogant? Please tell me I would not want to victimize you more so than you already tend to be.
HP where do you feed monkeys? Do you deem other people less than you, so you denigrate them by calling them monkeys? Why is it you use the term pseudo with intellectual when referring to me? Would it have been better if Id have said, Shoot Im surprised. I try to be nice to you and you get all mad at me and such?
I guess I am confused concerning you alls political persuasion too. I used the term communist in my salutation since as I read your posts it seems evident your political views and debate tactics are similar to those used by last centurys socialist figures. Are you liberals, socialists, communists or democrats? Maybe you can enlighten me. I want to be so like you. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Aug 14, 2008 4:04 PM:

" The Question wrote on Aug 14, 2008 1:37 PM:
" I didn't realize that murders of Conservatives ceased in this country.

Please name me the prominent right wingers who have been gunned down lately, Neo.

Ahhh, I didn't write that. Those pesky facts, gosh darn it. "

father bob wrote on Aug 14, 2008 5:34 PM:

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Aug 14, 2008 3:50 PM:
" Lefty, fb, and hp..
I am truly taken aback.
I dispense platitudes and you alls response is to hurl invectives toward my character.
______________

you mean you actually understood??? good for you! "

father bob wrote on Aug 14, 2008 5:38 PM:

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Aug 14, 2008 3:50 PM:
" Lefty, fb, and hp..
I am truly taken aback.
I dispense platitudes and you alls response is to hurl invectives toward my character.
______________

it may have been a vituperation...we'll have to have someone make a call on it. "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 14, 2008 6:02 PM:

" Boy, if you give a junior high janitor a thesaurus you had better look out! LOL! "

The Question wrote on Aug 14, 2008 6:13 PM:

" Those pesky facts, Neo, are that the outpouring of fascist bile from talk radio and Fox News over the last decade has identified liberals, gays, feminists and other scapegoats as the source of all evil in this country, and, on Christian radio, as the spawn of the devil. That has coincided with the murder of liberals by gun-toting swine and assorted nuts.
What fascist bile, you ask? This fascist bile:
Ann Coulter: "We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too. Otherwise, they will turn out to be outright traitors."
Rush Limbaugh: "I tell people don't kill all the liberals, leave enough around so we can have two on every campus; living fossils, so we will never forget what these people stood for."
Bill O'Reilly to the citizens of San Francisco: "And if Al Qaeda comes in here and blows you up, we're not going to do anything about it. We're going to say, look, every other place in America is off limits to you, except San Francisco. You want to blow up the Coit Tower? Go ahead."
Fox News contributor Liz Trotta: When asked her opinion of comments made by Sen. Clinton about Sen. Obama, Trotta said, "some are reading [it] as a suggestion that somebody knock off Osama." Bill Hemmer quickly corrected Trotta, having noticed that she had said "Osama" when she meant "Obama." At this point, Trotta said, "Obama. Well... both if we could!" Trotta then laughed gleefully. "

The Question wrote on Aug 14, 2008 6:23 PM:

" By the way, for you conservatives who are doing your Christmas shopping early, here's a right-wing web site where you can buy T-shirts and sweatshirts that picture Democrats in the cross hairs of a gun site.
http://www.therightshirts.com/political/cpshop.cgi/antidemocrat.rightwingstuff.216475+got-ammo.html "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Aug 14, 2008 9:32 PM:

" TQ I think a valium may be in order for you. I'm not sure what you are babbling about as I never wrote "I didn't realize that murders of Conservatives ceased in this country" on this post or any other that I can remember. So forgive me if I don't engage what appears to be random rants with no reference for me.

Harry Potter there you go again. Putting down members of the proletariat. Is nothing sacred to you? Now you are denigrating the hard working junior high janitors of the world. Is it wrong they might spy a thesaurus from time to time?

Are you being an elitist liberal? Remember I want to be like you (emulate is the "fancified wurd") so please let me know if this is what's involved with being a liberal....

Fb, so are you saying that you might have been overly harsh? What, is this a mea culpa from you? The angels are singing on high if that's the case (provided you believe in such a thing). "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 15, 2008 7:25 AM:

" Harry Potter there you go again. Putting down members of the proletariat. Is nothing sacred to you? Now you are denigrating the hard working junior high janitors of the world. Is it wrong they might spy a thesaurus from time to time?

I'll take your word for it, Neo, if anyone should know about janitors using reference books, it would be you. LOL!

Your attempt to sound like an intellectual is rather transparent as well as comical, but please don't stop, you are good entertainment for the unwashed masses. I'll bet you spend hours composing your little essays, don't you? "

father bob wrote on Aug 15, 2008 10:00 AM:

" NeoCon Academician wrote on Aug 14, 2008 9:32 PM:The angels are singing on high if that's the case (provided you believe in such a thing). """"

LOL....angels and space aliens. "

father bob wrote on Aug 15, 2008 10:01 AM:

" i take that back.....i do believe in space aliens. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Aug 15, 2008 5:42 PM:

" HP wrote...

Your attempt to sound like an intellectual is rather transparent as well as comical, but please don't stop, you are good entertainment for the unwashed masses. I'll bet you spend hours composing your little essays, don't you? "

Oh I won't stop, thank you, especially anytime I see one of your profound postings.

It's funny though. Even as I type rather quickly, I was going to bet that you spend hours composing your little diatribes, especially with the number of posts that I see from you on any given day.

Why is it you have so much time to post and your posts reek of being part of "the victim class"? Is it because you've accomplished nothing of substance in life, you didn't/don't really earn what you thought/think you are worth, life has past you by, and welfare or social security just ain't cutting it for you that you lash out at others that disagree with your viewpoint?

Yeah, I think I hit it on the head. "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 15, 2008 7:25 PM:

" Not everyone disagrees with me all the time, Neo. An no, I usually just shoot from the hip, and don't spend time looking for 50 cent words to try to pass myself off as some sort of intellectual, as you apparently do.

I don't make a big deal out of spelling, grammar and such, so consequently you will notice a lot of errors on my part.

Your messages seems carefully contrived and are probably the result of a lot of time and effort. Another part of your act, I suspect.

And you need not worry about my economic status, or well being. As a self employed entrepreneur, I do quite well and have lots of free time to stir people like you, my favorite old pompous wind bag.

No, my friend life didn't pass me by, as it seems to have done to you. Any one who is so insecure as to have to act like something they aren't, must be speaking form personal experience. You have my sympathy. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Aug 15, 2008 10:12 PM:

" As for the 50 cent words I guess I speak that way by the usual company that I keep.

Shoot from the hip is it. I guess you could categorize it that way, saying nothing of value, except other than to antagonize people. Oh, or to cut and paste.

Use the sympathy on yourself. Anyone that goes out of their way to irritate others obviously has some profound personal issues.

As for misspellings and grammar, good for you. I've never criticized anyone for misspellings and grammar on these posts. So if that is a pointed criticism of me, that's of your own machinations. Oops, sorry, you might to look that one up.

Oh, I won't worry about your economic status. Self-employed entrepreneur, that's a joke. Sounds like to me you're probably a scratch-farmer on the government dole, or course, just to pay your real estate tax. It's obvious that's why your such a sycophantic boot-licker to your beloved democrat party. I'd like to see you have to make a payroll for a number of employees in a company. Oops, I already know the outcome with you involved, Chapter 13.

Ah yeah, life's passed you by. Why else would you spend so much time on a blog trying to be cute with your "shoot from the hip", in other words meaningless, posts? "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 16, 2008 9:17 AM:

" The pompous windbag says:

Are you being an elitist liberal? Remember I want to be like you (emulate is the "fancified wurd") so please let me know if this is what's involved with being a liberal...

and the next day says:

Why is it you have so much time to post and your posts reek of being part of "the victim class"? Is it because you've accomplished nothing of substance in life, you didn't/don't really earn what you thought/think you are worth, life has past you by, and welfare or social security just ain't cutting it for you that you lash out at others that disagree with your viewpoint?

Make up your mind neo, one day you call me an elitist liberal, and the next day you seem to think I am failure at life and a welfare recipient. It would seem to me that those two things contradict each other, but then again, most of the stuff you post seems to rather illogical at times.

Or is it that you're just in a self absorbed delusional fog, so busy looking up new words to try to impress people, that you forget from day to day what you have said on here?

Wow, I get the idea that calling you out for your phony act hit home.

Gotta go, I need to get down to the public aid office and pick up those food stamps, and I'll bet I'm the only one sitting in the waiting area drinking Starbucks and reading the New Yorker. You know how it is with us elitist welfare types. LOL! "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 16, 2008 10:34 AM:

" The pompous pseudo intellectual windbag also says:

....that you lash out at others that disagree with your viewpoint?

Funny that you're totally silent when it comes to those (like RushBaby, gringa, miltmart, Tom Andres etc) that seem to have a similar mindset as yours. I guess when they lash out at others that disagree with their viewpoint, that's OK, huh? LOL!

You're a hoot, neo... "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 16, 2008 3:22 PM:

" Yeah, but I keep keep you coming back, don't I? Care to share with us any info on your illustrious career in the field of academia?

And people wonder why the public schools are in such a mess, many of the really talented people have left and the schools are stuck with the belligerent and often unstable dregs, who couldn't manage to hold down a real job, and hide behind the teachers union and tenure. Certainly not all teachers are of your caliber, but unfortunate too many are.

And if you really are employed in the field of academia, don't try to tell us you're getting rich. I, like a lot of people, left the education field many years ago to go into something that paid better than starvation wages. I'm well aware of the salary structures in the educational field. If anyone was on any form of government assistance, it would probably be you, that is if you're actually involved in teaching, or in an administrative position, and aren't, as I suspect, merely a janitor, bus driver or cook or some other menial labor type of worker. I never saw a teacher so insecure that he/she had to put on such an act to try to look so learned. Your overreach is quite apparent, and I suspect there are very few people that are taken in by your transparent ruse. The harder you try, the sillier you look.

As far as your insulting comment on the farming industry goes, I have relatives that probably make more money in one year as farmers than you make in 10 years in what ever capacity you are in. In fact they probably have employees who make more money annually than you do.

So let's hear all about your glorious career in academia. (Yeah, like that's gonna happen.) LOL!

My bet is that you won't share one bit of information about your so called career.

I'll be waiting to hear all about your glorious career in the field of academia. But I won't hold my breath. LOL! "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Aug 16, 2008 6:02 PM:

" Harry Potter, you've demonstrated time and time again, with all due respect, that you're a "little slow on the uptake". I was going to use the word daft here but that causes some type of inferiority issues it seems with you.

When I wrote, "Remember I want to be like you (emulate is the "fancified wurd") so please let me know if this is what's involved with being a liberal, you obviously did not catch the innuendo; I was being facetious.

There I go again with those big words. As for the big words, let me enlighten you a bit here. Those "50 cent words", as you put it, are exact words. They provide exact meaning. It's like when a physician uses the word deltoid to identify the whole of the shoulder even though there are several parts to it. Doctors are precise because you want them to be precise when healing you. Using several words to identify something often leads to confusion. I'll accept the criticism of using big words with the "unwashed masses", but I try to be precise to eliminate confusion. When I use big words your friends and you get all bent out of shape. It seems the true issue with me by you is an internal thing because you think I'm trying to impress someone. With all due respect, I really dont feel the need to do that with you or anyone else. You know, I recall the very first time I posted on here, and not all that long ago, concerning education and the American workforce, something very near and dear. It was either father bob or you that used the term Macadamia Nut concerning my posting tag. I guess that should have told me something about the quality of the posts to be expected, especially from the regular writers, with these blogs. Lowbrow dialogue tends to be the standard.

As for being an elitist liberal, there's no contradiction. Being an elitist liberal it is not a state of being, it is a state of mind. You said, "I'll bet I'm the only one sitting in the waiting area drinking Starbucks and reading the New Yorker. You know how it is with us elitist welfare types". Ah yeah, I know all about it like with the sense of entitlement here in this country, and through the spectrum, but I wont go into a diatribe here. Ill save that for another debate.

By the way, I know what I am writing; I vary the rhetoric tactic. Its a debate tactic but Ill spare you the details. There again, maybe thats my fault expecting others like you would pick up on it. Maybe gotchas and hyperbole are better?

As for RushBaby, gringa, miltmart, Tom Andres, they may have a similar mindset, but what about your liberal contemporaries of a similar mindset? So what is your point here, to condemn flippancy, condescension, character assassination, deception, and miss-truths? Great I'm all for it, on both sides. Let's start debating political and contemporary issues and be civil about. How's that sound? It's actually all I have ever asked. Seems to me thats what needed not only here but with this country in general.

Ah yeah, this one did take a while to write in case you were wondering. I wanted to make sure I was perfectly clear. Clear?

Neo "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 16, 2008 6:04 PM:

" This one is for my Reich wing conservative buddy, neo...

"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are
conservatives." - John Stuart Mill "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 17, 2008 12:57 PM:

" Is that an olive branch, neo? "

The Question wrote on Aug 17, 2008 6:18 PM:

" Half a dozen Blackwater Worldwide security guards have gotten target letters from the Justice Department in a probe of shootings in Baghdad that killed 17 Iraqis, The Washington Post reported.
The Blackwater guards are caught up in the investigation of shootings that took place last September when a Blackwater team arrived in several vehicles at an intersection in Baghdad where shooting erupted, leaving numerous Iraqis dead and wounded.
The Post described the six guards as former U.S. military personnel, but did not identify them by name.
Blackwater says the convoy was ambushed by insurgents, touching off a firefight. Iraqi witnesses, however, described an unprovoked attack in which security guards fired indiscriminately, killing motorists, bystanders and children in the square.
-------
Finally. Maybe we're about to see some justice for Bush and Cheney's private fascist thug army. "

NeoCon Academician wrote on Aug 17, 2008 6:38 PM:

" Listen Harry. I could provide you a resume of several pages, if I was so inclined, but these are anonymous blogs, arent they? Lets just suffice to say that I have or have had an association with both industry and academia through the years and leave it at that, okay? I live comfortably. What I do as a vocation now is because I want to do it and I enjoy what I do. Youll just have to trust me on this one.

With your comments concerning education.your just trying to make me write a book here. So let me bullet here:

1) Our primary schools do a good job. Kids at the primary level in the US more than stack up versus their foreign contemporaries.
2) Our secondary school education system needs completely revamped. Illinois is a poster child for whats wrong. The publics had a huge con-job done on them. If they only knew....
3) Our educational system in the U.S. still revolves around the 9 month agrarian model from the 1900s. Big mistake. Kids everywhere else around the world go longer and are better prepared for the university level. If seen it.
4) 70% of the top universities in the world are located in the US. With more Chinese and Indian students achieving advanced degrees, and going back to their own countries, by 2050, we wont have the majority of the top universities anymore. Consider that the Chinese and Indians have more honor students in their educational system than we have students in our entire educational system.
5) Something like 90%, yeah 90%, of all funding for university level education in Illinois goes to the U of I. I have a big problem with that relative to point 4.
6) Teacher union contracts are based upon LABOR contract models from the beginning of the last century stemming from manufacturing and mass production. Their contracts should be based upon PROFESSIONAL (knowledge and performance based) contract models. When teachers start realizing they work for themselves, like professionals do, their lot will change. If not, just wait til private schools en masse start importing foreign teachers for their classrooms. Then you know what will hit the fan. Remember you heard it hear first, HP. Its coming.
7) Teachers hate NCLB. Is NCLB great? No. Is it terrible? No. Is it a huge step in the right direction? Definitely.
8) I could go on. Ill stop here.

As for looking silly HP, thats okay. How do you think you look going out of your way just to irritate people?

Dont misconstrue my comments concerning farming. Its a noble profession. Its just that governments been enticed to intercede and now, just like with fuel and food prices, farming is out of whack. Why else is it that the US is a net importer of food, yet we feed the world?

As for an olive branch, quit with the incendiary remarks, like Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservatives", and the personal character assaults (at least between us, but in all cases would be ideal) , and Ill try not to sound pompous in my posts. Lets just debate the issues and agree to disagree when it happens. Hows that sound? "

The Question wrote on Aug 19, 2008 11:19 AM:

" The torture thing was the last straw. That's where good old American values really took a shellacking. Of course, it never mattered to Bohemian Grove toga-crowd like Bush and Cheney. Why would they care? They just saw it as a way to increase their power and stick it to their enemies at the same time.
It was a game, really. They'd just gouge out a few eyes and rip off a few fingernails no one would be the wiser. Besides, they thought, let the media soften up public attitudes; that's why they get paid for, right?
Wrong. Attitudes really haven't changed that much about torture. Most people still think its wrong and think it should be illegal.
More importantly, knowing that your country deliberately inflicts pain on people really matters; its a game-changer. It's not possible to respect a country that uses torture. What people feel is revulsion. not respect. And, it's disturbing, too. It proves that something is rotten in America. We've become a nation of creeps.
Mike Whitney "

father bob wrote on Aug 19, 2008 3:24 PM:

" Why I Will Not Vote for John McCain
Phillip Butler | March 27, 2008

As some of you might know, John McCain is a long-time acquaintance of mine that goes way back to our time together at the U.S. Naval Academy and as Prisoners of War in Vietnam. He is a man I respect and admire in some ways. But there are a number of reasons why I will not vote for him for President of the United States.

When I was a Plebe (4th classman, or freshman) at the Naval Academy in 1957-58, I was assigned to the 17th Company for my four years there. In those days we had about 3,600 midshipmen spread among 24 companies, thus about 150 midshipmen to a company. As fortune would have it, John, a First Classman (senior) and his room mate lived directly across the hall from me and my two room mates. Believe me when I say that back then I would never in a million or more years have dreamed that the crazy guy across the hall would someday be a Senator and candidate for President!

read the rest here:

http://tinyurl.com/2w3l32 "

Harry Potter wrote on Aug 20, 2008 7:32 AM:

" I think the torture issue will dog Bush and will play a big part in his legacy as one of the worst presidents in history. I also think his supporters should be ashamed of their support for his barbaric torture tactics. This is just on small issue in the overall picture of the disgrace this administration has brought upon them self and our nation.

Electing Obama would go a long way in showing the rest of the world that the American people reject the type of government Bush and Cheney have tried to create. Electing McCain would show the rest of the world that we don't care. Let's just hope decency wins out in the end. "

The Question wrote on Aug 20, 2008 1:39 PM:

" Here's a real laugh.
In Poti, Russian soldiers commandeered four Humvees that had been used in U.S.-Georgian military exercises and were destined to be shipped back to the United States.
The Pentagon said it was looking into the theft while billions of dollars paid to Republican-crony no-bid military contractors remain missing, unsought and unaccounted for. "

father bob wrote on Aug 21, 2008 4:14 PM:

" The Justice Department wants to revise the federal governments rules for intelligence-gathering by state and local police making it easier to share anything they find about U.S. citizens with the federal government and then letting them retain that information for a decade.

Slip-sliding away, down that very slippery slope, and comfortably easing right on into a police state..
And meeting little to no resistance along the way.. "