" The really important question is: Can we still have Bagelfest after Lender's closes its doors and moves operations to Mexico? "

" Boy it sounds this writer is against unions?????
((The Local claims there was an interest shown in the union by at least 30 percent of the workers at Lenders, said Tremain )) CLAIMS!!!!!!!!! They could not have got this far in the process if they didn't have an interest ..... "

" Gringa, China would be a better place to move the jobs.

From Manufacturing and Technology News:

The Chinese wage of $0.57 per hour -- or $104 per month -- is about 3 percent of the average U.S. manufacturing worker's wage, according to data collected by Banister.

"Equally as striking, regional competitors in the newly industrialized economies of Asia had, on average, manufacturing labor costs more than 10 times those for China's manufacturing workers, and Mexico and Brazil had manufacturing labor costs about four times those for China's manufacturing employees."

The average hourly wage for a (Chinese) worker in a rural setting was $0.41 per hour, and migrant workers are making even less than that.

The average annual earnings for manufacturing workers in cities were $1,347 (11,152 yuan at the official exchange rate) for the year 2002. Manufacturing workers in the countryside averaged $837 (6,927 yuan) for the year. Urban manufacturing workers average 45.4 hours of work per week, "and it is...reasonable to assume that [rural] manufacturing workers average 50 hours of work per week in 2002," writes Banister.

From Forbes.com, Chinese Wage Increases Outpacing Economic Growth

On a per-capita basis, the average Chinese worker earned an annual wage of 12,422 yuan ($1,630) in 2002, or 1,035 yuan ($136) per month. As of 2006, they were making 21,001 yuan ($2,756) a year, or 1,750 yuan ($230) a month.

See also http://www.chinalaborwatch.org/2007wagestand.htm


I've always wondered why US labor union members have never protested outside of the Chinese embassy or have traveled to China to demonstrate in sympathy for their communist worker brethren.

Oh...that's right it's easier to bash US employers than it is to bring up their foreign brethren worker to the same pay scale. Silly me.

Go ahead and unionize at Lender's....ppfft! "

" If you are worried about bagelfast, Lenders has very little to do with it now, and rumor is that next year they are going to have the city buy the bagels for the big breakfast..... "

" Didn't we learn anything from Blaw Knox? "

" So what do ya think they'll do with the building once the union forces them to shut down?

You'd think Young Radiator, Trailmobile, Anaconda, Columbia Machine and the like would have taught people a lesson. RR Donnelley, Ampad and JustRite thrived while those companies closed up shop. The wages weren't that different, but the rules were. You can't have six people doing the job of three and stay in business. "

" Will the union bring something to the bargaining table other than higher employment costs? Obviously, Lender's has unresolved employee relations problems, but that's not necessarily the fault of management. Union petitioners have earned a reputation for creating trouble at every turn. What usually happens in these petitions is that the union promises employees higher wages and benefits, but offers the employer absolutely nothing in return.

If a union could offer the company drug-free, experienced, fully-trained reliable production employees, the company could consider the union as a valuable labor resource. The only unions I know of that offer trained journeymen are Pipe Fitters, Electricians and Operating Engineers. Even teachers' unions bring nothing to the table except higher labor costs and interference with administration policy and procedure.

As to the cost of labor in China, India, Mexico, etc: that's just a fact of life, and is probably the primary cause of declining union influence in American enterprise. How can a company justify American union employment costs approaching $30 an hour (including benefits) for a level of productivity that's available in foreign markets for less than a tenth of that cost? The best control of this situation is for the union members (and petitioners) to band together and simply not purchase foreign goods. "

" First of all the Journal "Guess at it" is anti union. If you remember back in the days of Youngs Radiator the Journal would print company statements but would not print union statements. Also Justrite is Union. 300 Ampad employees lost jobs to Mexico. The standard for companies now is if a union vote passes then the company usually moves their business elsewhere.

I recommend voting no or they will probably lose their jobs. "

" Drive Lenders out of town, then complain because there are no jobs in Mattoon. duh "

" ItsJustDave wrote on Aug 4, 2008 8:56 AM:

" You can't have six people doing the job of three and stay in business. "


well Dave
right now 1 person is doing the job of 3 people. we work 10 days in a row get 4 days off maybe.
I think we will take our chance. "

" If a union is voted in, keep your resume updated and don't take on any unnecessary debt. Just sayin'. "

" See Ya Lenders - Dopes! "

" Good luck, lifelesson. I'm sure the issues are a lot more complex than those posting on here know. I have been on both sides of the fence, and one thing I know is the general public usually has very little knowledge about the issues, with most labor disputes. After reading some of the above comments, I'm sure that is the case here too.

I always find it interesting that those who bash unions get the benefits of organized labor in their own employment. The 40 hour work week was something that came of of the labor movement, as well as a lot of other benefits enjoyed by the modern worker. "

" If you think that Young Radiator, Trailmobile, Anaconda, and Columbia Machine all closed because of a Union, you are dead wrong, and not educated in this field, they were not UFCW plants either. Unions don't close plants! The fact that this plant is a food plant is insurance enough, Thank goodness for the USDA and the FDA. They keep a tight hold on the food being imported across our borders. They would not allow Bagels to be produced over seas or outside our borders, this is a perishable item. I would like to thank all my co-workers at the Lenders plant for making it this far, I truley feel we will succeed!! "

" I remember sitting in Gill's one night listening to former Trailmobile employees complaining how the company had let them down by closing. Then they got to talking about how many times the had went to work drunk. And they were still amazed that the company closed? Not too bright. "

" Thanks Harry Potter,
Your right if the company would have worked with us, it would have not come to this. We love our job and out pay is great but if you work us like dogs, we are going to bite back...... "

" Aw Gheeze, HP, yeah, the 40 hour work week was something that came of of the labor movement, seventy years ago. True, in 1938 the Fair Labor Standards Act came into being. Let's talk about some other meaningful advances for the worker that unions have produced in the last 70 years - besides running off Blaw Knox, TrailMobile, etc. "

" The biggest fallacy about unions are that they are all about wages. Of course wages are a big issue, but in many cases, such as it looks like here, working conditions are a key reason people vote to organise.

And for gringa, I have seen how you "debate" and I have no reason to get in a spitting contest with you. If I had seen one post from you that showed you had any reason or ability to legitamently have a conversation, I would be happy to, but all I see from you is inane comments that are always of the knee jerk reaction type. No thanks. I prefer to converse with grownups, or at least literate people. "

" I prefer to converse with grownups, or at least literate people. LMAO, you, Harry Potter, actually said this about ME? Tell me, from your point of view, can you see your prostate gland? "

" I knew a guy who worked nights a Blau Knox. When he wasnt using company equipment to make his own little projects, he was using the company internet connection to surf the web. And when he wasnt busy with that business, his colleges said he was napping.

I remember how indignant he was when the company requested that the employees not schedule their vacations or use up their allotted sick days during the times that large projects were being developed. He swore to the death that his union wasnt going to give a %$&^% inch!

Hes currently looking for his seventh job. "

" As is the case with most things, I think unions are something that can be great in theory, but if you get the wrong people running the show all heck breaks loose.

Gringa, as a teacher, I find your statement that teacher's unions only drive up labor costs to be comical. Are you aware that teaching is one of the lowest paying professions for someone with a bachelor's degree? I wish the teacher's union could drive up labor costs a little bit more so I wouldn't feel like such a fool when I see people with less education making more money than me. "

" I will say good luck like to see it happen but I dought it will no one will stand by it or together when push comes to shove Think back when Sullivan had the tubuler plant and when they got the union voted in they packed up and went back to Ohio with in a yr "

" When unions first were created they were a need and were good for the worker. The problem is that someone found a way to make money at it. Union leaders are sitting back on the dues of others, not all but some. They are getting money while they are "fighting" at the table, while the worker is trying to put food on the table. I am not saying unions have no place at all. What I am saying is you have to look at all the reasons the union wants to come into your business. I have even seen where a company "helped a union leader out of some misfortune" with thousands of dollars in his/her life and then when it came time for that leader to fight for the workers, well lets just say he/she didn't fight to hard on the new contract. Make sure the union is fighting for everyone not just a few, and not just for wages. (The his/her reference is so the leader helps stay annonamous, for those who don't get it.) "

" I would imagine the person, described by Baby, who worked at Blaw Knox has a counterpart at about every large number employer in Coles county. Good grief, what in the world does this have to with the good people at Lenders wanting to be protected from unreasonable working conditions? That comment was reminiscent of the style Fox news used, that is anecdotal and isolated little stories to drive home a point. But as our friend Tom A says, thank God for Fox news. Right Tom? LOL! "

" Unfortunately, the area businesses have taken advantage of its workers to come to this point. There is a time when you have to say enough is enough. Lenders used to be a very good place to work. Employees were happy. Who has a job around here that pays halfway decent AND doesn't require you to be available literally around the clock, or at the last minute have to work an extra four hours? Tell me, I need a job. As far as the Bagelfest.....it has gone downhill for several years, just like any other attraction that is held around here. We won't be missing anything. "

" I am very PROUD of the employees at Lenders for standing up for their rights!

Go Lenders!! "

" I seriously hope that gringa, is not a teacher. Yikes... "

" Well said, Potter, well said. Now excuse me while I go watch the pigs fly as I'm sure they must be doing on a day that you and I agree on something. "

" HP, i don't think soldier was saying gringa was a teacher, i think soldier's the teacher....at least that's how i read it.

and he's right, it's pretty sad that our teachers make so little. but then again, they knew that would be the case when they entered that field. education is no guarantee of a high paying job. i manage at a retail store and everyday i get college grads applying for jobs. fat lot of good all that education did them. (no, i'm not saying that education is pointless so don't even try to put words in my mouth) "

" I am a Union Pinnacle foods employee in Fort Madison Iowa. Unions don't close down factories, bad management does. If Lenders closed down with out a union, the employees would most likely not get anything more than the two months notice required by federal law. My union negotiated that if our plant closes we get six months severance pay, along with pension and a half. I make a very good wage and Pinnacle continues to make a good profit. I have job security, great health care and a 36 hour work week guarantees. I have an unheard of $55 a year pension, plus a 4 percent 401k match. Temps are only allowed in the plant 12 weeks a year max and no full time employee is ever laid of while temp workers are in the plant. I always get over time after 8 hours a day. Plus double time on Sundays. The biggest thing is Pinnacle respects us because of our union.
Pinnacle has a good relationship with our union. It is a partnership and we both win. There is am a mutual respect. Pinnacle makes there Millions and I make a decent, middle class wage.
If the Mattoon workers decide they want a Union, the Fort Madison workers are here to support you. You deserve everthing we have. "

" "I've always wondered why US labor union members have never protested outside of the Chinese embassy or have traveled to China to demonstrate in sympathy for their communist worker brethren."

Actually, unions are raising all sorts of noise about not trading with China and most other countries who treat their employees more like slaves than workers. Unfortunately, with the dwindling union powers in the country, corporate greed and propaganda about unions, they are winning. Many, many times unions have complained and lobbied to only trade with countries that also have close to the same labor laws as the US. They were against NAFTA, CAFTA and all other aftas that corporate American is trying to ram down our throats. But since unions are constantly being meligned by the MSM and about half of you fall for it hook, line and sinker, now instead of US union influencing the higher wages and work safety of rising economies the corportations have brainwashed you into thinking that the only way to save our jobs is lower our own paychecks and work safety down to those who are now slaves to them. So when you anti union people get pay cut after pay cut, no more health insurance, vacation time or over time, don't come complaining. You have chosen already and it will come and bite where you definately won't like it. "

" http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/09/washington/09labor.html

WASHINGTON, June 8 The A.F.L.-C.I.O. filed a trade complaint on Thursday asking President Bush to penalize China, asserting that it violates workers' rights by suppressing strikes, barring independent unions and letting factories ignore laws on minimum wages
and child labor.

http://www.hrichina.org/fs/downloadables/video/ChinaandtheAmerican1.2003.pdf?revision_id=8726

CHINA AND THE AMERICAN
ANTI-SWEATSHOP MOVEMENT

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/04/02/business/labor.php

Union could target fast-food giants in China

So, once again, please tell me how unions are not out there fighting for Chinese labor rights? I must have missed something. "

" First off all the workers at Lenders deserve a pat on the back for keeping the company afloat. They work short handed and as said 10 days in a row because it "saves the company money". And I also think its kinda funny that this column has been buried already in your archives..Afraid of a little challenge or what? They have a right to fight for their jobs and to speak their opinions. If the workers dont do something then the company will fail cause that is the way it is being ran..straight into the ground. "

" I am a UFCW member and very proud of it. I work for Pinnacle foods in Ft Madison, IA. The area I live in has had numerous other factories shut down and move their production overseas or south of the border. Every area in America has lost good manufacturing jobs over the past 7 years, as we have lost over 3 million manufacturing job as a country. Pinnacle foods reported earnings of $84 million for the first quarter of this year. Not too bad. I have sat down and spoken with workers from the bagel plant and they are being mistreated and disrespected. Workers who are laid off so the company can bring in temps to fill their jobs. That is just unacceptable and disrespectful to not only the workers but the entire community. Having a union in the bagel plant can and will be a win-win for both the workers and the company. It is working here in Iowa. "

" Hey Becky...a lot of good the AFL-CIO trade complaint will do against COMMUNIST China. You remember communist China don't you, "the worker's paradise"? Maybe American unions would gain a little more respect for their sympathy for foreign workers when y'all fly over to China and stage a worker's protest in support of Chinese labor in the middle of Tiananmen Square. I won't hold my breathe.

Here's another challenge to you to gain respect too. Your American union brothers/sisters and you, quit buying Chinese/oversea goods all together here in America. Good luck.

As for CAFTA and NAFTA more American jobs, albeit requiring technical skills to get these jobs, have been created than have been lost. These agreements have also forced companies to continually seek to increase productivity and quality against foreign competitors which is a good things and keeps them in business. This lesson was learned, and is still being felt, when Japanese car makers started outdoing, and are still outdoing, American car manufacturers. So if you don't like Nafta and Cafta, go ahead and seek to get rid of them...then your job will definitely be gone. By the way it's been argued that America's losing its standard of living now because of our "sins" in the '70's and '80's with American car manufacturing.

As for jrhendren... modern unionism started in the 1880's with "the grange" and the likes and farmers cooperatives back in the 1880's. The labor movement grew in the U.S. with automobile manufacturing in the early/mid 1900's because of the lack of laws protecting workers then. And with reference to NauvooBob...American workers are some of the most legally protected workers in the world. If workers are being mistreated here, it's their own fault. Number 1 you can refuse to do any unsafe practice, number 2 you can contact the NLRB, the EPA, OSHA, and on and on, on your own if you are being abused (I could probably tell you the best way go about it). If it is as bad as has been implied here then your at fault for not protecting your fellow workers and yourself by not notifying these government entities.

The fact of the matter is America does not need low skill-low wage jobs. They are a dime a dozen around the world and that's why the jobs are leaving from here. Why pay $8 to $15 an hour here when there is a job surplus in India and China with people that have 4 year technical degrees?
Back in the day American workers competed for jobs in America in companies run by Americans. Now American workers are competing with foreign workers who are often better educated, relatively speaking, or at least they can get the same amount of productivity out of them even though they may hire 3 or 4 workers compared to one American, to get it.

The manufacturing companies that do well, and by the way, tend to be less unionized, providing added value to their products, are the ones with flatten management structures, where workers are highly specialized, and generally have extensive technical training, like in the mean nasty oil companies are the ones thriving in the U.S. Look at CAT and John Deere they saw the writing on the wall back in the early '90's. They've come roaring back. They still have unions, but not nearly to the degree they once had. New hires are screened carefully for appropriate technical skills and they can't find them. GM's going through it now but it looks like they never come back to full strength.

So why are you bagel makers so much more special than other manufacturers in the U.S. that have seen their union strength decline?

Go ahead unionize....see what happens...history is not on your side I am sure to tell you...

Let the personal attacks begin.... "