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Monday, April 14, 2008 9:29 PM CDT
Debate fails to settle question of God's existence



CHARLESTON — Facing a question from an audience member on why he believes everyone should start out in life thinking like an atheist, Richard Foley offered an analogy.

A professor of philosophy at the University of Missouri, Foley told the audience to imagine they were told of the existence of space aliens on the campus of Eastern Illinois University.

Everyone in attendance would start at the assumption the aliens did not exist until it was proven otherwise, Foley said.

Thinking about God should be the same way, Foley said.

Too much evidence exists to show there is no God, he said.

“Agnosticism is not a starting point — it would have to be an achievement,” Foley said. “I haven’t been moved that far.”

Foley was in the panel discussion Monday titled “Does God Exist,” with Grant Sterling of the Eastern Illinois University philosophy department.

Foley presented an argument in opposition to the existence of God, while Sterling presented the philosophical argument in favor of the existence of God.

Each professor of philosophy kept the presentation of his argument to under 20 minutes to allow time for audience questions. The audience more than filled the allotted time slot with questions for the philosophy professors.

Hundreds of people attended the forum, filling all of the seats in Lumpkin Auditorium, as well as the aisles.

In the interest of time, both of the professors limited their presentations on the matter to the cosmological argument of whether God exists.

That is, whether it is God who created the universe as we conceive it, they said.

Sterling argued that for any contingent being, such as ourselves, to exist, there must be a reason why that being exists. The explanation for the existence of these beings must be more than just other beings.

Such as, the reason why a person exists is more than just because of their parents, because their parents were created by their parents before them and their parents before them and so on.

Thus, all beings must be explained in terms of a “logically necessary being,” Sterling said.

This logically necessary being started creation and thus is similar to the Western conception of God, he said.

It does not prove any particular characteristics of God, but it proves that a God, as a necessary being, exists, Sterling said.

Foley countered Sterling’s argument by saying his cosmological argument is that something first caused or created the universe as it began.

However, that cause was not God; it did not exist by any necessity, he said.

This first cause of the universe was not the cause of everything in the universe, as some would argue God has done. The question of where everything in the universe has come from is something that is constantly being answered in science, Foley said.

Questioned by an audience member as to what it would take to convince him God exists, Foley had difficulty coming up with an answer.

He said he is skeptical of miracles and doesn’t know what explanation of a necessary being would convince him.

Foley said his belief in being an atheist is strong.

“So much testifies to it for me,” Foley said.

Contact Amber Williams at awilliams@jg-tc.com or 238-6858.


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The Question wrote on Apr 15, 2008 9:59 AM:

" In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing.
— Mark Twain "

krusayda wrote on Apr 15, 2008 12:44 PM:

" Is there any Question? "

Becky wrote on Apr 15, 2008 3:05 PM:

" Darn! And I missed the whole thing? "

Illinoisbound wrote on Apr 16, 2008 6:21 AM:

" If I need direction in my thought process of a living God...I will ask someone who knows Him...not someone who doesn't. The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. Why would I seek the wisdom of a fool? The fool has said in his heart there is no God. "

The Question wrote on Apr 16, 2008 7:21 AM:

" The easy confidence with which I know another man's religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.
— Mark Twain. "

Rotty wrote on Apr 16, 2008 8:47 AM:

" maybe the next debate they can try to figure out a bigger question....
Why are we here? "

The Question wrote on Apr 16, 2008 10:35 AM:

" You're being facetious, Rotty, but I'll answer anyway. Individuals develop, understand and create the meaning and essence of their lives, as opposed to deities or authorities creating it for them. Or they don't, as the case may be. The choice is theirs. "

Rotty wrote on Apr 16, 2008 2:56 PM:

" I try my best, Question.
LOL
Thanks for your post. :-) "

Bryant Lamphier wrote on Apr 17, 2008 8:12 AM:

" "In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing.
— Mark Twain"

-------------

Tell me Question-

Does that also include Barrak Hussein Obama and his Christian beliefs? "

Bryant Lamphier wrote on Apr 17, 2008 8:13 AM:

" I do not feel any contempt for an atheist, who is often a man limited and constrained by his own logic to a very sad simplification. - G. K. Chesterton "

Bryant Lamphier wrote on Apr 17, 2008 8:17 AM:

" "Individuals develop, understand and create the meaning and essence of their lives, as opposed to deities or authorities creating it for them."

---------

But Question- WHO "created" those individuals in the first place? "

The Question wrote on Apr 17, 2008 11:02 AM:

" I have a question for you people of piety.
According to the Intelligencer Journal and the Lancaster New Era newspapers, a group of about 60 local Amish people heard Bush report this momentous fact at the Lapp Electric Service plant in Smoketown, Pennsylvania, on July 16, 2004.
“I trust God speaks through me,” Bush told them. “Without that, I couldn’t do my job.’’
So if God speaks through Bush, God has made some pretty darned stupid decisions lately, hasn't he? Do you see any problem at all with politicians running around claiming to be the Voice of God? Or will you defend the Lord Bush Thy God? Does this suggest to you any problems that might occur when you shove your undigested fundamentalist beliefs and supernatural visitations into high office?
"

Bryant Lamphier wrote on Apr 17, 2008 12:27 PM:

" "Does this suggest to you any problems that might occur when you shove your undigested fundamentalist beliefs and supernatural visitations into high office?"

------------

I'm confussed here- Question.

IF Barry Hussein Obama really is a Christian- as he professes to be-

then doesn't he believe that Christ speaks TO HIM?

And as President of the United States-

wouldn't Barry Hussein Obama have to quickly develop a "tin-ear" towards Christ voice?-

If so- wouldn't he then CEASE to be a true Christian?

Shouldn't Barry Hussein Obama declare right-now, BEFORE the General Election- That he will CEASE to be a Christian once he is elected as President?

hmmmmmmmmmm..............?

Help me out here- Question. "

The Question wrote on Apr 17, 2008 2:57 PM:

" Help me out here, BL. Is Bush really the Voice of God, as he claimed? Is our chimpanzee really a Burning Bush? "

Becky wrote on Apr 17, 2008 3:04 PM:

" And so Bryant, are you saying you want a theological government? Something like Iran has? Seperation of church and state is a good thing. Although, moral values and judgement are important in legislating. Unfortunately, whether self claimed Christian or not, our government leaders have shown neither. "

Bryant Lamphier wrote on Apr 17, 2008 4:12 PM:

" "Help me out here, BL. Is Bush really the Voice of God, as he claimed? Is our chimpanzee really a Burning Bush?"

----------

Hold on there Question- I asked YOU about Obama- first- did I not? "

Bryant Lamphier wrote on Apr 17, 2008 4:17 PM:

" I'm asking a simple question, Becky-

where should the Christian end-

and the politician- begin?

Is a Christian politician a Christian first-

Or a politician- first?

When does the Christian politician "listen" to God- Becky? "

The Question wrote on Apr 17, 2008 4:46 PM:

" Hold on there, BL- I asked YOU about Bush - last - did I not?
"

father bob wrote on Apr 17, 2008 4:52 PM:

" When does the Christian politician "listen" to God- Becky? "

when he's NOT doing the work of the people. "

Bryant Lamphier wrote on Apr 17, 2008 6:43 PM:

" "when he's NOT doing the work of the people."

--------------

Well then- fatherbob- if he stops listening to God-

then he stops being a Christian-

does he not? "

The Question wrote on Apr 17, 2008 6:45 PM:

" Bush said he was the Voice of God. Is he, right-wing Christians? "

Bryant Lamphier wrote on Apr 17, 2008 6:48 PM:

" "Hold on there, BL- I asked YOU about Bush - last - did I not?"

-----------

Fairness would dictate that you answer my question first-

would it not Question.

I'll readily answer your question about Bush IF you agree to answer a question about Obama.

Deal? "

The Question wrote on Apr 17, 2008 7:23 PM:

" Fairness would dictate that you answer my question first-
would it not Question.
-----
No. With people I don't respect, I do the dictating. "

The Question wrote on Apr 17, 2008 7:27 PM:

" Comedy writer Alan Ray: "The pope will visit President Bush in the White House. Talk about different leaders. One speaks almost no English and thinks he's God's emissary. The other is the head of the Catholic Church." "

Bryant Lamphier wrote on Apr 17, 2008 7:36 PM:

" I'll readily answer your question about Bush IF you agree to answer a question about Obama- Question.
"

Bryant Lamphier wrote on Apr 17, 2008 7:54 PM:

" "No. With people I don't respect, I do the dictating."

-------------

Of course you repsect me, Question-

for the simple fact that-

you fear me.

"

Bryant Lamphier wrote on Apr 17, 2008 8:02 PM:

" Oh and uhm Question...... it's impossible to "dictate" in a free and open forum.

Once again I have proven you wrong-

and that's why you fear me. "

Harry Potter wrote on Apr 17, 2008 8:18 PM:

" Thanks for the laughs, Bryant liar/ Steve Ditka/ Doh/ beenhere/ etc etc etc and moron, yeah right, we all fear you. You are without a doubt the biggest entertainer on this site, and we all love you, no matter what name you're posting on today.... wink wink.. Keep it up, you're providing a lot of laughs for a lot of people. For a rabid right winger you are rather funny, unlike the boring Tom Andres who tries to make us laugh, but his lines usually fall flat. Perhaps you could offer him some suggestions. "

Bryant Lamphier wrote on Apr 17, 2008 8:43 PM:

" "yeah right, we all fear you."

----------

Well now, Harry Pooper-

I said Question fears me-

So why are YOU replying with-

"we all fear you".

Did "we" get "our" posting names confused again Mr Pooper? LOL! "

Bryant Lamphier wrote on Apr 17, 2008 8:46 PM:

" Hey Harry Pooper-

since you're brave-

maybe YOU can answer this:

Shouldn't Barry Hussein Obama declare right-now, BEFORE the General Election-

That he will CEASE to be a Christian once he is elected President? "

 



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