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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

Lee Enterprises

Friday, January 25, 2008 9:18 PM CST
COLUMN: Conservatives yield to 'Big Brother' in the name of security

By HARRY REYNOLDS, Editorial Page Editor
hreynolds@jg-tc.com

I can’t decide if Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff is an avid disciple of “Big Brother” government or merely oblivious to its dangers.

The Bush administration’s shucking of conservative principles in the name of security smacks of hypocrisy. But, it’s not alone in the farce. Democrats and Republicans in Congress have aided and abetted this assault on civil liberties.

I can understand liberal Democrats’ treading toward big government at the expense of state’s and individual rights. It’s sad to see conservatives in both parties sell the label so cheaply.

A piqued Chertoff lashed out last week at opponents of the government’s plan to create a de facto national identity card. Critics of the effort need to “grow up,” he snapped.

If “grow up” means giving up freedom and privacy, then we would all be better remaining children. Chertoff has chained his mind to the notion that life and security are the same thing.

They are not. Life requires mystery, uncertainty and risk. Most of all risk, I think. We take a chance every minute we walk the earth. The more secure we are, the less we are.

Chertoff’s reeks of arrogance, presumption and danger. He denigrates Americans who believe government’s powers should be subservient to the people’s right to unfettered lives.

Chertoff seeks to defend the end-run around the American people’s aversion to a national identity card by invoking 9/11. In his eyes and the eyes of those yet quivering in the wake of the attack, we should be quite content to shed our rights, our privacy in the attempt to prevent future attacks.

No matter what the government does, however, there will be another day of destruction. It may not come from the terrorist’s bombs, or on the wings of planes, but it will come.

We live in a world where nuclear weapons are increasingly at risk of being used. The dangers of nuclear catastrophe are every bit as great — probably, more so — than at the height of the Cold War.

Life is not safe, not in this world. Not while man’s passion lags his intellect. One need only regard the past, when civilizations rose and fell at the hands of the barbarian.

We are not immune to another dark age. Civilization survives at the age of a knife, depending on the desire of each human being to be free.

No government is capable of guaranteeing our safety. It can, however, provide a false sense of security. Which is acceptable to those eager to embrace a false god.

Chertoff’s admonition to those who oppose the so-called Real ID Act, incorporated in defense legislation in 2005, only managed to intensify the efforts of the governor of Montana to derail the law.

Brian Schweitzer, a conservative Democrat, called on governors of 17 rebellion-minded states, to work with him to force a showdown with the federal government. His defiance comes in the face of a federal threat to not accept the driver’s licenses of the residents of states that refuse to implement Real-ID.

Real-ID would standardize driver’s licenses in all 50 states and link them to central databases at the federal level. Under the law, those under the age of 50 holding driver’s licenses would be required to apply again.

Montana, in 2007 passed a law refusing to comply with Real-ID, citing states’ and privacy rights and fiscal issues. Implementation of Real-ID is expected to take a heavy toll on the financial resources of the individual states.

Following Chertoff’s “grow up” comment, Schweitzer shot back that he was offended by the Homeland Security secretary’s reprimand. Schweitz went on to say Chertoff’s remarks showed the Homeland Security’s “disrespect for the serious and legitimate concerns of our citizens.”

Montana residents are noted for independence and defiance when confronted by federal edict.

Schweitzer sent his letter to the governors of Illinois, Colorado, Idaho, Georgia, Maine, New Hampshire, Nevada, Nebraska, Missouri, Washington, North Dakota, Tennessee, Pennsylvania, Oklahoma, South Carolina, Arizona and Hawaii.

Schweitzer is pressing for congressional action to pass legislation that would stop Real ID. It would reestablish a commission that was working on driver’s license regulations prior to passage of Real ID.

It will be interesting to see if the rebelling states can stand up to the federal government on this issue. Opposition to Real ID goes far beyond simple defiance. Its roots are embedded in the principle the power of the federal government should be limited.

We’ve traveled many a mile on Big Brother’s road and we’re a paying a heavy price in terms of our freedoms.

The journey is taking us into a land where we’re video taped in private and on public avenues; a land where micro-chips will track our whereabouts; a land where bureaucrats like Chertoff fire ill-considered and chillingly arrogant reprimands at the citizens whose Constitution he is swore to uphold.

It is in a sense, the duty of all Americans to oppose tyranny in any form.

We’re far better off at risk, than bound in chains restricting our freedoms in the name of a security. A thing with an impossible guarantee.

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The Question wrote on Jan 26, 2008 5:50 AM:

" Time to dig out your Sinclair Lewis. It can happen here, and it is happening here. "

Early Bird wrote on Jan 26, 2008 6:32 AM:

" An excellent editorial Harry. In fact, one of the I've seen in years, and I read them all. Chertoff's style seems to fit right in with the rest of this administration. Things like this are a reason that long time conservative writer, Peggy Noonan, recently said Bush has destroyed the Republican party (bet you won't see her on Fox for a while). The very things the conservatives have been preaching for so long, are the very same things this administration seems to have embraced, and yet many conservatives continue to support this administration, no matter how egregious they get with their actions. No matter who gets elected, Democrat or Republican, they have their work cut out. They are inheriting a disastrous mess created by the Bush/Cheney duo, or as my friend father bob says, the Cheney/Bush team. In closing, I would like to repeat your words, Harry: it is the duty of all Americans to oppose tyranny in any form, and let me add, even if this tyranny comes from you own government. Thank God, this long nightmare will be over soon. "

Julio wrote on Jan 26, 2008 8:12 AM:

" How long before the police start going door to door, in the name of national security of course.
America's turning into the land of the not so free.
"

coonbug wrote on Jan 26, 2008 9:54 AM:

" Was it Rudy or Romney during one of the Republican debates that said DEMOCRATS are for BIG GOVERNMENT and BIG BROTHER?

I almost choked when I heard that. It's been nothing BUT Big Brother from this administration AND it's Party since 2001.

American's will suffer from these actions in many years to come. Somebody's going to say, "well, we do this...why can't we do THAT TOO?"

Coonsey's View
www.freewebs.com/coonsey/ "

Cognitus wrote on Jan 26, 2008 10:55 AM:

" Harry has made an important point and I hope that people who read it hurriedly will review it. This is an administration that has ruled by fear. George Bush has got residents of Ashmore and Greenup and Casey so terrified that bin Laden will turn up for breakfast that they will bend over backward to do anything that George W. Bush asks to keep the boogers away -- quite ignorng the fact that Bush ignored ALL who told him before starting the war that Saddam hadn't had any WMDs for nearly 10 years, was simply using an empty threat to keep his enemies off his back. ********* So far as the RealID is concerned, that is simply a device to keep people at the bottom of the economic world, who incline to be Democrats, from voting. A couple of weeks ago Cal Thomas wrote a sarcastic column to the effect that the RealID was a trivial issue, that after all one has to have one to buy an airline ticket, get through TSA at an airport, contact his credit card company and drive his car, etc. So identify the people who in this community who do all these things routinely -- and you will find that they are people with very comfortable incomes -- and they are Republicans!!!!! ************ I would point out that my dear mother, who did not die EVEN CLOSE to poverty never drove a car (many rural women in the days when she was young never drove) so never had a drivers license, after the scare of the depression paid CASH on the barrelhead (or a check) so never had a credit card, never bought an airline ticket so obviously went through TSA. In other words there are quite a few people in our community at whom Carl Thomas sneers because, due to age and/or economic conditions, they have NEVER used the facilities that he from his elite perch assumes that ALL Americans have. ***** Let's get down to practical matters. Getting a RealId may in some cases be expensive, requiring a birth certificate (do you have one?? I found when I was born mine was overlooked and I had to pay $$ to get one when I volunteered for WW II) which costs money: a RealID may not be inexpensive. This is simply a device used by Republicans -- using fear as a weapon -- to disinfranchise a group of people who are largely Democrats. It is nothing but a Poll Tax in disguise -- which the US Supreme Court found illegal several years ago. Don't let the Republicans impose another "poll tax" on us just because of fear that bin Laden may turn up driving into town on Lincoln Avenuel.

RealIDs are not always easy to get; in some places one has to have a birth certificate and they are not easy to get, sometimes expensive to acqui "

cd wrote on Jan 26, 2008 12:29 PM:

" "We’re far better off at risk, than bound in chains restricting our freedoms in the name of a security. A thing with an impossible guarantee." --- Gaining security from those outside the U.S.A. is the forfeiture of security from those inside the U.S.A. And along with that internal security goes our freedom. -- We have seen the enemy, and it is ourselves. "

zeke wrote on Jan 27, 2008 2:23 AM:

" You know, I find it very strange that the people that support every imaginable kind of government intrusion into our lives on an entire range of issues draw the line when it comes to national security. It's okay that the government takes our money, raises our kids, tells us what kind of thinking is acceptable, and runs our lives down to the last minute detail with regulations, red tape and sanction for not being compliant. But GOD FORBID the government try to protect us. That's none of their business? The lefties sole premise is to have government run our lives so you'll have to forgive my incredulity at your "concern". "

Early Bird wrote on Jan 27, 2008 6:28 AM:

" Cognitus, something I've learned over the years from reading the out of touch Cal Thomas, is that if he's for it, it's probably not good for the regular guy. His essays are about as phony as his dye job, and he is nothing more than a sneering apologist and shill for this administration. He waves the flag for Bush/Cheney duo on a regular basis. With regards to the ID card program, you better believe that if this was a Democrats idea, he would be screaming to high heaven, about big brother. It's going to be fun to watch all the right wing nut cases, like Thomas, go ballistic, after the Democrats take back the White House, and if they dare to come with any ideas that are similar to what has been put forward by the current thugs in power. "

The Question wrote on Jan 27, 2008 6:36 AM:

" Glad you're finally starting to wake up, Harry. However, you have carried water for Bush and his little gang of fascists for the last seven years. By the way, your education is still incomplete. It is the liberals who support individual rights, as in the ACLU. The conservatives demand conformity. "

1 cav wrote on Jan 27, 2008 7:41 AM:

" Well the Democrat's are in control of both houses.

Who wire tapped ML King?

Who pulled hundreds of FBI files and keep them in the White House?

I guess if you are talking overseas to know terrorist,some one should be listening? Remember that famous Dumocrat mantra "Didn't connect the Dots" ???
"

steve senteney wrote on Jan 27, 2008 9:49 AM:

" Illinis Secretary of State offers a ID card free of charge that never expires to senior citizens who are over 65. The following documents are required, Social Security card, Social Security Award Letter and one of the following: voter registration card, utility bill, lease agreement, vehicle registration card. Many other forms or documentation are also acceptable, but these forms listed are all free of charge. My mother obtained her ID card from the Secretary of State office in just a few minutes. The ID cards are certainly not required, but should a senior citizen (over 65) ever need one, they are free and easy of obtain. To enter a federal courthouse now requires an identification card. "

Early Bird wrote on Jan 28, 2008 6:49 AM:

" Daniel Day-Lewis won a SAG award for playing the part of a greedy rich oil man. He said he studied for the part by hanging around the White house. "

Rotty wrote on Jan 28, 2008 8:47 AM:

" The Question wrote on Jan 27, 2008 6:36 AM: It is the liberals who support individual rights, as in the ACLU. The conservatives demand conformity.

Now that is one tall tale! The ACLU don't give two hoots about individual rights, they're as nuts about conformity as some of you would have us believe the conservatives are. They are for one thing, & one thing only.... themselves! "

The Question wrote on Jan 28, 2008 9:05 AM:

" You have gotten a hold of ome rotten info, Rotty. The ACLU's sole purpose is to defend the individual rights defined in the Bill of Rights to the Constitution of the United States. Take a look at Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity, for example. The ACLU has defended the constitutional rights of both. "

The Question wrote on Jan 28, 2008 10:38 AM:

" The American right wing's hatred of the ACLU stems from the same source as their hatred of Amnesty International, the UN, science, Hollywood, the university, the press and — while Bush is in office — the Constitution itself. They hate the idea of any independent voice they do not control. They despise anything that represents the slightest restraint on the Republican authoritarian power to silence, imprison, torture, kill, steal, bribe, invade and lie about it all. "

The Question wrote on Jan 28, 2008 10:53 AM:

" Paul Craig Roberts — "Your papers please" has long been a phrase associated with Hitler's Gestapo. People without the Third Reich's stamp of approval were hauled off to Nazi Germany's version of Halliburton detention centers.
Today Americans are on the verge of being asked for their papers, although probably without the "please."
Thanks to a government that has turned its back on the US Constitution, Americans now have an unaccountable Department of Homeland Security that is already asserting tyrannical powers over US citizens and state governments. Headed by the neocon fanatic Michael Chertoff, the Orwellian-sounding Department of Homeland Security has mandated a national identity card for Americans, without which Americans may not enter airports or courthouses.
There is no more need for this card than there is for a Department of Homeland Security. Neither are compatible with a free society.
However, Bush, the neocons, Republicans and Democrats do not want America to any longer be a free society, and they are taking freedom away from us just as they took away the independence of the media. "

The Question wrote on Jan 28, 2008 11:03 AM:

" I know you right-wingers prefer to lie about the ACLU's long history defending constitutional rights — religious freedom, for example. So I thought I'd just provide you with a few facts.

September 20, 2005: ACLU of New Jersey joins lawsuit supporting second-grader's right to sing "Awesome God" at a talent show.

August 4, 2005: ACLU helps free a New Mexico street preacher from prison.

May 25, 2005: ACLU sues Wisconsin prison on behalf of a Muslim woman who was forced to remove her headscarf in front of male guards and prisoners.

February 2005: ACLU of Pennsylvania successfully defends the right of an African American Evangelical church to occupy a church building purchased in a predominantly white parish.

December 22, 2004: ACLU of New Jersey successfully defends right of religious expression by jurors.

November 20, 2004: ACLU of Nevada supports free speech rights of evangelists to preach on the sidewalks of the strip in Las Vegas.

November 9, 2004: ACLU of Nevada defends a Mormon student who was suspended after wearing a T-shirt with a religious message to school.

August 11, 2004: ACLU of Nebraska defends church facing eviction by the city of Lincoln.

July 10, 2004: Indiana Civil Liberties Union defends the rights of a Baptist minister to preach his message on public streets.

June 9, 2004: ACLU of Nebraska files a lawsuit on behalf of a Muslim woman barred from a public pool because she refused to wear a swimsuit.

June 3, 2004: Under pressure from the ACLU of Virginia, officials agree not to prohibit baptisms on public property in Falmouth Waterside Park in Stafford County.

May 11, 2004: After ACLU of Michigan intervened on behalf of a Christian Valedictorian, a public high school agrees to stop censoring religious yearbook entries.

March 25, 2004: ACLU of Washington defends an Evangelical minister's right to preach on sidewalks.

February 21, 2003: ACLU of Massachusetts defends students punished for distributing candy canes with religious messages.

October 28, 2002: ACLU of Pennsylvania files discrimination lawsuit over denial of zoning permit for African American Baptist church.

July 11, 2002: ACLU supports right of Iowa students to distribute Christian literature at school.

April 17, 2002: In a victory for the Rev. Jerry Falwell and the ACLU of Virginia, a federal judge strikes down a provision of the Virginia Constitution that bans religious organizations from incorporating.

January 18, 2002: ACLU defends Christian church's right to run "anti-Santa" ads in Boston subways.

"

father bob wrote on Jan 28, 2008 11:15 AM:

" Rotty wrote on Jan 28, 2008 8:47 AM: """
Now that is one tall tale! The ACLU don't give two hoots about individual rights, they're as nuts about conformity as some of you would have us believe the conservatives are. They are for one thing, & one thing only.... themselves! """

how funny is that??....too much Rush Limbaugh and Bill O'Riley there Rotty. "

Becky wrote on Jan 28, 2008 12:42 PM:

" Here, here Harry! You should look up American "Civil Labor Camps". And check out these pics of PROOF POSITIVE of cutting charges at "http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/wtc_charges.htmles" at the WTC buildings. Now you know that SOMEONE inside had to know that planes were going to hit the towers. Several weeks (if not months) of planning and setting up was needed to demolish those buildings. These are the true traitors of America. Not those of us who want to know the TRUTH for once. "

Rotty wrote on Jan 28, 2008 4:50 PM:

" To The Question: actually that is what I've always believed and I'm not for controling an independent voice, I'm actually more for it. Also, I'm not for an authoritarian power, either, I believe everyone should have a voice, and pretty much everyone does, or could have, without the ACLU. I try to stand on my own two feet, or atleast I give it my best shot. Thanks for your comments.

To father bob: actually I've never really watched Rush Limbaugh or Bill O'Riley. I used to listen to Rush, every once in a long while, when I use to accompany my father on some business trips, many years ago, just to get a good laugh. And I've never really cared to look up either on the net as well. Thanks for your comments.

To Becky: Eh, more conspiracy theories. Blah, Blah, Blah. Most, if not all, have been debunked. "

Cognitus wrote on Jan 28, 2008 11:58 PM:

" Steve senteny wrote," Illinis Secretary of State offers a ID card free of charge that never expires to senior citizens who are over 65. The following documents are required, Social Security card, Social Security Award Letter and one of the following: voter registration card, utility bill, lease agreement, vehicle registration card. Many other forms or documentation are also acceptable, but these forms listed are all free of charge. My mother obtained her ID card from the Secretary of State office in just a few minutes. The ID cards are certainly not required, but should a senior citizen (over 65) ever need one, they are free and easy of obtain. To enter a federal courthouse now requires an identification card. "#############
But Steve does not seem to know that neither the Illinois driver's license nor the ID his mother got satisfies the RealID requirements. He will be as surprised, as I was when I read it in the newspaper a couuple of weeks ago and called our license office and they confirmed: an Illinois drivers license does NOT satisfy the Federal requirement for a RealID. "

The Question wrote on Jan 29, 2008 5:41 AM:

" Before condemning the ACLU, Rotty, you should investigate its real history, not just the fog of lies put out by right wingers whose attacks on the ACLU are really a cover for their hatred of the individual rights in the BIll of Rights. "

The Question wrote on Jan 29, 2008 5:53 AM:

" Following protests from students, former presidential adviser Karl Rove has withdrawn as this year's commencement speaker at a prestigious prep school, the school's headmaster said Monday.
The choice of Rove as speaker for the June commencement at Choate Rosemary Hall had led some students to plan to walk out of the ceremony.
-----
Gosh, they really know how to hurt a fascist Gerber Baby's feelings, don't they? "

The Question wrote on Jan 29, 2008 6:30 AM:

" As a principle of moral clarity, I would suggest that when you reach the point where you are willing to kill children, torture people or create a police state for the sake of your cause, you have become evil. And you admit as much by your refusal to call those things by their right names, instead labeling them "shock and awe," "harsh interrogation" and "Homeland Security." "

The Question wrote on Jan 29, 2008 6:38 AM:

" Here's what America is now:
Jeremy Scahilll —
Last week in Currituck County, N.C., Superior Court Judge Russell Duke presided over the final step in securing the first criminal conviction stemming from the deadly actions of Blackwater Worldwide, the Bush administration's favorite mercenary company. Lest you think you missed some earth-shifting, breaking news, hold on a moment. The "criminals" in question were not the armed thugs who gunned down 17 Iraqi civilians and wounded more than 20 others in Baghdad's Nisour Square last September. They were seven nonviolent activists who had the audacity to stage a demonstration at the gates of Blackwater's 7,000-acre private military base in North Carolina to protest the actions of mercenaries acting with impunity -- and apparent immunity -- in their names and those of every American.
The arrest of the activists and the subsequent five days they spent locked up in jail is more punishment than any Blackwater mercenaries have received for their deadly actions against Iraqi civilians. "The courts pretend that adherence to the law is what makes for an orderly and peaceable world," said Steve Baggarly, one of the protest organizers. "In fact, U.S. law and courts stand idly by while the U.S. military and private armies like Blackwater have killed, maimed, brutalized and destroyed the livelihoods of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis."
"

Early Bird wrote on Jan 29, 2008 7:05 AM:

" Thanks for the information on the ACLU, Question. The right wing smear machine often points to cases where the ACLU takes a position that goes against popular belief, such as defending the American Nazis, but fails to mention any cases where the very same organization goes to battle for a right wing cause, and there have been many such cases. Those lemmings who lack the ability to think for themselves, or are too lazy, and rely on sources such as Fox and the right wingers like Limbaugh et al for their news, fall for this ploy. Those who speak out against this organization, usually do so out of complete ignorance as to the true mission of this organization. With the current administration's overzealous attempts to run over individual rights, and I'm glad there is such a group around. "

steve senteney wrote on Jan 29, 2008 7:14 AM:

" Cognitus is partially correct, I did not compare the requirements for a Illinois Secretary of State Identification Card for senior citizens with the requirments for a Real-ID. I just wanted those who may not be aware that currently a senior citizen can get a photo ID card free of charge should they currently need one. Some seniors may believe they have no need for a photo ID, but due to unforseen circumstances, they may need one on short notice. To fly on a commercial airplane or to enter a US Courthouse currently require a photo ID. I was just trying to be helpful to those who thought it would be difficult to obtain a senior ID card and there would be a charge for it. I do know the requirements for states to meet the Real-ID requirements. To meet these proposed requirements requires more documents and information than currently required for a senior citizen to obtain a photo ID card free of charge from the Illinois Secretary of State or for a person to obtain a drivers license. Some of these needed documents will have a cost to meet the Real-ID requirments. A search of the Internet provides a lot of information on the Real-ID proposal and the requirments that must be met to obtain one. Essentially, the documents are required to prove who you say you are. I recall a case several years ago in which a young Mattoon resident and a friend while students at the University of Illinois took it upon themselves to obtain as much false identification as possible to include trying to obtain a United States passport. They read about how to do it in a book and decided to try and see if they could do it. They were charged with a federal crime for the false passport applications, pled guilty and received a minimum sentence. They made a mistake in judgement and paid for their mistake with a court record. The point is, currently obtaining false identification is not difficult to obtain if you are willing to break the law to do it. The Real-ID program requirements are trying to make it more difficult to obtain a false Real-ID. I am sure it is not fool proof and some will try to circumvent the system and some may even be successfull. I understand concerns citizens have about requiring identification cards of our citizens. I am not advocating them or degrading them. Hopefully I have provided some background information that others may not be aware of. "

Becky wrote on Jan 29, 2008 8:00 AM:

" Actually, Rotty, it's the official explanations that have been debunked. Did you go to the website and just look at the twin towers perfectly cut beams? No, I didn't think so. You wouldn't be able to face the truth so you wouldn't even try to find it. "

The Question wrote on Jan 29, 2008 11:21 AM:

" "Thanks for the information on the ACLU, Question. The right wing smear machine often points to cases where the ACLU takes a position that goes against popular belief, such as defending the American Nazis, but fails to mention any cases where the very same organization goes to battle for a right wing cause."
----
I agree, Bird, but would add a clarification. Technically speaking, the Americans Nazis ARE a right-wing cause. "

The Question wrote on Jan 29, 2008 12:18 PM:

" "The Real-ID program requirements are trying to make it more difficult to obtain a false Real-ID."
-----
So we let illegal aliens stream across the borders and work here by the millions, but now we need to require American citizens to produce their papers on command?
Wake up and smell the proverbial coffee. This isn't about security. This is about a police state. "

medic wrote on Jan 29, 2008 1:30 PM:

" OK......So what are we gonna do about it. I think we all know in our hearts that our freedoms are vanishing in front of our eyes. So what are we gonna do about it? Just stating it here does nothing. We have to take a stand for something as a country and stop being so damn complacent. What happened to our spirit that made us stand up and revolt? A revolution is the only answer. Complacency is a white flag. "

just wondering wrote on Jan 29, 2008 3:13 PM:

" Hey Zeke you are absolutely right. These folks are complaining about the very thing that makes them able to come on to these sites and post their beliefs. I guess the one consolation is, if the enemy ever takes over, these folks will be the first ones thrown in jail. You gotta love the ones who bites the hand that feeds them. "

father bob wrote on Jan 29, 2008 3:57 PM:

"
just wondering wrote on Jan 29, 2008 3:13 PM:
" Hey Zeke you are absolutely right. These folks are complaining about the very thing that makes them able to come on to these sites and post their beliefs. I guess the one consolation is, if the enemy ever takes over, these folks will be the first ones thrown in jail. You gotta love the ones who bites the hand that feeds them. "

soooooo.....you think people need to be thrown in jail for speaking out against lies, deceit and the pillage of the country? "

Rotty wrote on Jan 29, 2008 8:53 PM:

" Becky, I checked out the website, & the videos, & I still stand by what I said, previously. I suppose man really didn't walk on the moon, either, huh? "

just wondering wrote on Jan 30, 2008 9:53 AM:

" Father bob, no you have every right to speak your mind. But if our country is ever taken over by some outside power, that will be one of the first rights you will lose. If you would have read the entire statement you should have understood that, rather than just pick out the parts you didn't like. You want your rights preserved, then object when someone takes measures that will protect those rights. Or maybe you just want to have something to complain about. "

The Question wrote on Jan 30, 2008 11:57 AM:

" A New York City police officer shot and killed an unarmed robbery suspect in a drug-ravaged Brooklyn neighborhood early yesterday morning as the suspect was fleeing, the police said.
The suspect, Derek Armstrong, a 28-year-old street peddler of perfumes and watches and known as ''Cat'' in the Fort Greene neighborhood where he was shot, had been convicted of robbery several times. He was killed at 12:32 A.M. by a bullet that passed through his left arm and into his chest, the police said, making him the 10th person shot dead by New York City police officers this year.
-----
Authorities are looking into the death of an allegedly unarmed schizophrenic man shot by Garden Grove police over the weekend.
Trinidad Ornelas, 46, was shot by officers who had responded to a domestic violence call about 4:30 p.m. Sunday at his residence in the 12000 block of Barbara Avenue, police said.
-----
PHOENIX -- A man was shot dead Thursday night by five Glendale officers who mistook a bottle he was holding for a gun, investigators said.
Glendale police said they were serving search warrants related to a break-in and shooting that happened last week when they learned that one of their suspects, 36-year-old Jose Angel Rodriguez, might be at an apartment complex near 53rd Avenue and McDowell Road in Phoenix.
------
Authorities are investigating the death of a 29-year-old Fridley man shot with a Taser by state troopers, who said he had become "uncooperative'' after a rush-hour crash Tuesday evening.
----
Tell me, what do you think a police state looks like?

"

Stanley Stetson wrote on Jan 30, 2008 3:55 PM:

" The Queston: you need to go hide under your bed, so the boogieman can't get you* your gloom and doom coping and pasting is getting old like yesturday's dog chow* let the real men take care of business, scaredy cat* here, have a pacifier while your down there* i have a security blanket for you as well, if you want one* "

father bob wrote on Jan 30, 2008 5:15 PM:

" just wondering wrote on Jan 30, 2008 9:53 AM:..You want your rights preserved, then object when someone takes measures that will protect those rights.

and you people are so happy just to set back and have freedoms and rights stripped from us without a whimper or question...because you're programmed to do so. "

Stanley Stetson wrote on Jan 30, 2008 6:46 PM:

" father bob: how would you know* you a closet republican* the only mindless morons here are you dense-ocrats that spew the same hatred because your afraid, instead of being realistic, and looking ahead to a brighter future* don't you worry none, you can join The Question under the bed, and let us real men take care of business* besides he could use the company, then you two can whimper and whine together* he'll even share his pacifier and his security blanket, if you ask him nicely* now, program this, son* "

The Question wrote on Jan 30, 2008 7:06 PM:

" For the sake of their own survival, and that of their children and grandchildren, it's time for the lockstep, see-no-evil, blame-everybody-else Republican tools to recognize and admit that the peril we now face as a nation is a direct result of the policies of George W. Bush. His insane, borrowed federal spending, his enthusiasm for unregulated corporate theft (i.e., FutureGen), his hatred of constitutional rights and his ruthless warmongering have brought this nation to the brink of real disaster. Our 11th hour has arrived, so wake up and fess up, Republicans. Because if you don't, this talk radio-addled country isn't going to face reality. And unless we start seeing things clearly right now, we're all finished.

"

The Question wrote on Jan 30, 2008 7:32 PM:

" Looks like one of our old runaway Republicans is back, hiding under a big hat. Any bets as to how long this sock puppet will last before he runs off with his tail between his legs to hide under yet another new identity? "

just wondering wrote on Jan 30, 2008 9:49 PM:

" I will give up a few freedoms for a while to avoid losing all freedoms forever. "

Early Bird wrote on Jan 31, 2008 4:26 AM:

" Look at it this way fb, at least we got a few weeks of not having to deal with his inane comments, and constant charges of many of the posters on here being the same person. I wonder who he will accuse of being who now. Hang on here it comes. "

Early Bird wrote on Jan 31, 2008 4:28 AM:

" Oops, sorry father bob, that last comment was directed at The Question. "

The Question wrote on Jan 31, 2008 5:28 AM:

" " I will give up a few freedoms for a while to avoid losing all freedoms forever. "
----
Ben Franklin knew better than that, Wonder Boy. "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." "

The Question wrote on Jan 31, 2008 8:17 AM:

" " Oops, sorry father bob, that last comment was directed at The Question. "
----
Good move, Bird. That should throw the intrepid right wing Sherlocks off the scent of the fact that all three of us are really the same person. Bwah-hahaha! "

father bob wrote on Jan 31, 2008 8:42 AM:

" Stanley Stetson wrote on Jan 30, 2008 3:55 PM:.let us real men take care of business*

what a simplistic moron....i think you "real men" have had your turn to the tune of over 5 trillion bucks and hundreds of thousands of lives for NOTHING. and remember osamma bin laden?....ring any bells?? "

father bob wrote on Jan 31, 2008 12:32 PM:

"
NEWS MIDDLE EAST
Iraq death toll 'over one million'

Five people have been killed and eight injured in an bomb blast in the Kazimiyah neighbourhood of Baghdad, the Iraqi capital.

The latest violence on Thursday comes in the wake of a recent report that says more than one million Iraqis have died as a result of the conflict since the US-led invasion in 2003.

The survey, conducted by UK-based Opinion Research Business (ORB), found that 20 per cent of people in Iraq had experienced at least one death in their household as a result of the conflict, rather than natural causes.

The survey consisted of face-to-face interviews with 2,414 adults.

The last complete census in Iraq conducted in 1997 found 4.05 million households in the country, a figure ORB used to calculate that approximately 1.03 million people had died as a result of the war.

The margin of error in the survey, conducted in August and September 2007, was 1.7 per cent, giving a range of deaths from 946,258 to 1.12 million people. The research covered 15 of Iraq's 18 provinces.

Those missing from the survey included two of Iraq's more dangerous regions, Kerbala and Anbar, and the northern province of Arbil, where local authorities refused the group a permit to work.

Tallys of civilians killed in Iraq since the US-led invasion have been controversial in the past.

The Iraq Body Count website estimates the number is under one million, but upwards of between 80,699 and 88,126 people, although US authorities have questioned the site's methodology and figures. "

Stanley Stetson wrote on Jan 31, 2008 7:14 PM:

" father bob: would you or The Question please copy and paste some stats on how many of the men and women of the armed-forces, who fight for our freedom, enjoy being spit upon, just like you two bozos enjoy doing on these boards everyday* you two can come out from under the bed for this one, but just this once* "

FATHER BOB wrote on Jan 31, 2008 8:43 PM:

" Stanley Stetson wrote on Jan 31, 2008 7:14 PM:

" father bob: would you or The Question please copy and paste some stats on how many of the men and women of the armed-forces, who fight for our freedom, enjoy being spit upon, just like you two bozos enjoy doing on these boards everyday* you two can come out from under the bed for this one, but just this once* ".........okay Doh..

you can take your fascist chip on your shoulder and goosestep on down the road. you guys have this predicable retort about "honoring the troops" or "you're either with us or against us" everytime someone exposes the chink in your armor. you're prized little monkeyboy in the whitehouse has led you astray, and now if anyone brings it to the forefront you resort to flashbacks of the 1970's. you need to live in the present and take responsibility for backing a moron....moron....hey!! is that a parade i hear?? "

just wondering wrote on Jan 31, 2008 9:06 PM:

" With some of the "question"able statements from a person in the past who has claimed to know more than others, I would have no problem if you and people who feel like you do on security matters were the only ones who had to pay the consequences if you are wrong. The trouble is every man, woman, and child in this country will pay for it if you are wrong. I hope for the sake of anyone around you, you are more safety conscience when comes to other matters in your life. "

coonbug wrote on Jan 31, 2008 9:44 PM:

" Subject: George W. Bush Resume
(received this in an email - thought it worth repeating)

I will be available in January 2009, am willing to relocate. ( Please don't skip the last section !)

RESUME

GEORGE W. BUSH
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue
Washington, DC 20520

EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE:

Law Enforcement: I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been "lost" and is not available.

Military: I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam.

College: I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a cheerleader.

PAST WORK EXPERIENCE:

I ran for U.S. Congress and lost.

I began my career in the oil business inMidland Texas , in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas. The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock.

I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money.

With the help of my father and our friends in the oil industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas.

ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS:

I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union. During my tenure,Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America.
------------------------------------

CONTINUED ON....Coonsey's View --www.freewebs.com/coonsey "

The Question wrote on Feb 1, 2008 2:34 AM:

" Tell me, Wonder Boy, have you followed the stock market over the last few weeks? If so, you've seen Bush's corporate kleptocracy policies in action. We have put this nation in hock to the Chinese to the tune of $9 trillion. We have invaded and destroyed a country that presented no threat to this country, at a cost of $3 billion a week and thousands upon thousands of lives. We have kidnapped, secretly imprisoned and tortured people. We have buzz-sawed the protections enshrined in the Constitution of the United States, which had been one of the crowning achievements of civilization. And we have done all these things because your Republican monkey man and his organ grinder vice president thought they would be a good idea. "

The Question wrote on Feb 1, 2008 3:10 AM:

" The U.S. military isn't ready for a catastrophic attack on the country, and National Guard forces don't have the equipment or training they need for the job, according to a report.
Even fewer Army National Guard units are combat-ready today than were nearly a year ago when the Commission on the National Guard and Reserves determined that 88 percent of the units were not prepared for the fight, the panel says in a new report released Thursday.
-----
That's what your beloved Chimpanzee in Chief has done for your security, Wonder Boy, at a cost of a $9 trillion national debt. Let's see if you can torture your way out of that situation. "

Early Bird wrote on Feb 1, 2008 4:55 AM:

" For Question, the cut and paste comments, to fb, were a dead giveaway. Next come the accusations of multiple name posting. I think our friend, the Bush cheerleader, might be sneaking back, under yet another name. "

just wondering wrote on Feb 1, 2008 7:56 AM:

" Well question, for someone with the intelligence you keep telling us you have you are wrong quite a bit. I post only under this name no other. Apparantly there are others who feel the same way. I am not a George Bush fan. Never have claimed to be, never will. If you think Iraq was not a threat to this country, you are one of the most naive people I have ever met. Got to love people who think so much of themselves, but if I could buy you for what you are worth and sell you for what you think you are worth, I would be the richest person in the world. You also need to remember, the people that keep us safe and secure are the ones that allow you to speak out against them. "

The Question wrote on Feb 1, 2008 8:15 AM:

" The Doh-Doh isn't instinct after all, eh, Bird? "

father bob wrote on Feb 1, 2008 9:03 AM:

" just wondering wrote on Feb 1, 2008 7:56 AM:..""the people that keep us safe and secure are the ones that allow you to speak out against them. ""

now that's a bunch of rightwing hogwash...if you think this country is more secure you'd better look around. this idiot thought it was ok to sell our port authority to dubai...and tell us just when we're going to get an increase in container inspections? how much worse of a diplomatic policy towards ANY country could there be? where is our stongest ally?....distancing themselves further from us. after 5.5 trillion dollars and 3 BILLION dollars a day, just where is ossama bin laden?
"

The Question wrote on Feb 1, 2008 10:59 AM:

" I should have said, "The Doh-Doh isn't extinct after all, eh, Bird?" "

The Question wrote on Feb 1, 2008 11:01 AM:

" "If you think Iraq was not a threat to this country, you are one of the most naive people I have ever met."
-----
Explain to me what threat Iraq posed. How is it that a country with no WMDs, that never attacked or threatened to attack the U.S., frightens you so badly that you have to destroy it and kill hundreds of thousands of its citizens, Wonder Boy? "

Julio wrote on Feb 1, 2008 12:26 PM:

" Did ya hear about the bill the Republicans are trying to pass in Mississippi? Trying to make it illegal for resturants to serve over weight people.
Republicans want to control you by getting you in the legal system. "

coonbug wrote on Feb 1, 2008 1:43 PM:

" Julio, yes I did, in fact I wrote a little POST about it on my Blog at www.freewebs.com/coonsey/

What's next??? "

father bob wrote on Feb 1, 2008 5:20 PM:

" To be a republican you need to believe:

1. Jesus loves you, and shares your hatred of homosexuals, illegal aliens and Hillary Clinton

2. Saddam was a good guy when Reagan armed him, a bad guy when Bush's Daddy made war on him, a good guy when Cheney did business with him, and a bad guy again when little Bush needed a "we can't find Bin Laden" diversion.

3. Trade with Cuba is wrong because the country is Communist, but trade with China and Vietnam is vital to a spirit of international harmony.

4. The United States should get out of the United Nations, but our highest national priority is enforcing U.N. resolutions against Iraq.

5. Multinational drug corporations should be able to make decisions affecting all mankind without regulation.

6. The best way to improve military morale is to praise the troops in speeches, while slashing veterans' benefits and combat pay.

7. We support the troops by having draft dodgers send them into an unnecessary war without adequate armor and supplies and without adequate rest.

8. If condoms and sex education are kept out of schools, adolescents won't have sex.

9. A good way to fight terrorism is to belittle our longtime allies, then demand their cooperation and money.

10. Providing health care to all Iraqis is sound policy, but providing health care to all Americans is socialism. HMO's and insurance companies have the best interests of the public at heart.

11. Global warming and tobacco's link to cancer are junk science, but creationism should be taught in schools.

12. A president lying about an extramarital affair is an impeachable offense, but a president lying to enlist support for a war in which thousands die is solid defense policy.

13. Government should limit itself to the powers named in the Constitution, which include banning gay marriages and censoring the Internet.

14. The public has a right to know about Hillary's cattle trades, but George Bush's driving record is none of our business.

15. Being a drug addict is a moral failing and a crime, unless you're a conservative radio host. Then it's an illness and you need our prayers for your recovery.

16. Supporting "Executive Privilege" for every Republican ever born,! who will be born or who might be born (in perpetuity.)

17. What Bill Clinton did in the 1960's is of vital national
interest, but what Bush did in the '80's is irrelevant.

18. Support for hunters who shoot their friends and blame them for wearing orange vests similar to those worn by the quail.

19. If you spend all your time blaming all our national problems on illegal immigrants, you won't have time to think about all the real issues at election time.

If you don't send this to at least 10 other people, we're likely to be stuck with more Republicans in '08.

Friends don't let friends vote Republican "

just wondering wrote on Feb 1, 2008 5:25 PM:

" There were weapons of mass destruction that were moved to Syria while Saddam held off the inspectors. This has been confirmed, but people like you question, won't listen to anything that doesn't fit your agenda. I can see that you feel you are far superior to anyone else in this world and aren't going to listen to anyone, so I will let you wallow in your own ignorance. "

The Question wrote on Feb 1, 2008 8:20 PM:

" "There were weapons of mass destruction that were moved to Syria while Saddam held off the inspectors. This has been confirmed, but people like you question, won't listen to anything that doesn't fit your agenda."
----
Confirmed by what? Your fascist delusions, Wonder Boy?
"Now, look, part of the reason we went into Iraq was -- the main reason we went into Iraq at the time was we thought he had weapons of mass destruction. It turns out he didn't."
That's an Aug. 6, 2007, press conference quote from George W. Bush. You can read it on the White House web site here:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2006/08/20060821.html.
And what does that make you, Wonder Boy? There's a word for it, I think. "

Julio wrote on Feb 1, 2008 8:41 PM:

" I love you guys! ! ! People who make up their own mind. Don't listen to me or anyone else. Decide for yourself. "

Stanley Stetson wrote on Feb 1, 2008 10:31 PM:

" Beneath The Bed Buddies: the mindless cowering copying and pasting continues by our two boys who continue to peek out to see if the boogieman is going to get them* they speak when spoken to, udder their moronic words of defiance, then retreat to the confines of each other for condolence* or are they really just one poster as opposed to the many* The Question and father bob are truly heros in their own minds* let us all vote for john mccain, so we can enjoy the great entertainment of these two fine, upstanding, clowns slither their way back into the dark mist of the night* and remember, don't hate the player, hate the game* "

Early Bird wrote on Feb 2, 2008 5:29 AM:

" It's always good to start your day with a hearty laugh. Thanks for your 5:20 PM post, fb. "

The Question wrote on Feb 2, 2008 5:43 AM:

" Ever wonder why the right-wingers here are so slavishly supportive of George W. Bush, despite his spectacular series of failures and scandals?
John Dean cites work by social scientist Bob Altemeyer, noting, "Both men and women who test high as right-wing authoritarians, often evidence: highly religious, moderate to little education, trust untrustworthy authorities, prejudiced (particularly against homosexuals, women, and followers of religions other than their own), mean-spirited, narrow-minded, intolerant, bullying, zealous, dogmatic, uncritical toward their chosen authority, hypocritical, inconsistent and contradictory, prone to panic easily, highly self-righteous, moralistic, strict disciplinarian, severely punitive, demands loyalty and returns it, little self-awareness, usually politically and economically conservative/ Republican."
In other words, these ill-educated, rigid authoritarians are followers to the core, born to be exploited, who will irrationally follow their leaders right over the cliff, praying and waving their flags all the way to the rocks below. They are extremely dangerous to themselves, and to a democratic republic. "

father bob wrote on Feb 2, 2008 9:58 AM:

" just wondering wrote on Feb 1, 2008 5:25 PM:

" There were weapons of mass destruction that were moved to Syria while Saddam held off the inspectors.

Page 2....aliens abduct woman - elvis meets greets her in outer space mansion. "

Early Bird wrote on Feb 2, 2008 10:36 AM:

" Our old friend, under his new name of Stanley, did exactly as I predicted he would. I refer to my post of 4:26 on the 31st. Thanks for proving me right Do.. er..uh Stanley. Welcome back, Tom Andres needs all the help he can get. Fly-boy Chads support is rather weak and not very convincing. "

Dohbaugh wrote on Feb 2, 2008 11:01 AM:

" One might think that you just gave the perfect description of Tommy boy, Question. It seems that most of the points you just made were right on target in describing him. I don't know if everyone of those characteristics fit him, but for the most part, I think the majority of them do. A bit of sycophant would be a good description for him. "

Dohbaugh wrote on Feb 2, 2008 12:20 PM:

" For father bob and Question. Well, he's back, how long will he stay under his latest name? Maybe he needs to team up with his soul mate Tom Andres, because I see old Tom is starting to buy into his notion that all of those that don't agree with him must be the same person posting under a different name each time. I have noticed that most of the right wingers on here suffer from paranoia at times, and those two certainly appear to. "

father bob wrote on Feb 2, 2008 2:46 PM:

" well Dohbaugh, he'll play for a while until he paints himself into a corner again "

Stanley Stetson wrote on Feb 2, 2008 3:27 PM:

" you silly boys: Early Bird and Dohbaugh are funny* Harry Potter, over on another thread, is funny as well* so, that's five of you who think i'm Doh* boy o boy, when and if Doh ever comes back, he's sure going to be one confused commenter* some of you really think you've got this one pegged* LMAO!* let me help you out* the duck theory doesn't apply here* you are truely delusionalocrats* one is truely born every minute* "

The Question wrote on Feb 2, 2008 4:20 PM:

" Here's more of the simian savior's deft diplomacy. No wonder every other country in world now hates us.
----
A bitter diplomatic row between Germany and the United States deepened yesterday after Berlin flatly rejected demands from Washington that it deploy troops in war-torn southern Afghanistan and angrily dismissed the request as "impertinent" and a "fantastic cheek".

Germany currently has some 3,200 soldiers stationed in comparatively tranquil northern Afghanistan and the capital Kabul as part of the current Nato peacekeeping mission. It has been urged to deploy troops in the south before but has consistently refused. Yesterday however, it became clear that Washington had stepped up pressure on Berlin to commit troops to the south.

The move followed increased Taliban attacks and threats from Canada that it would withdraw its Afghanistan contingent completely unless more Nato troops were sent south. Canada has lost 77 combat troops in the region.
"

The Question wrote on Feb 3, 2008 4:54 PM:

" Here's another way the ape has helped Iraq, in addition to getting a million Iraqis killed so far.
-----
Baghdad is drowning in sewage, thirsty for water and largely powerless, an Iraqi official said on Sunday in a grim assessment of services in the capital five years after the US-led invasion.
One of three sewage treatment plants is out of commission, one is working at stuttering capacity while a pipe blockage in the third means sewage is forming a foul lake so large it can be seen "as a big black spot on Google Earth," said Tahseen Sheikhly, civilian spokesman for the Baghdad security plan.
Sheikhly told a news conference in the capital that water pipes, where they exist, are so old that it is not possible to pump water at a sufficient rate to meet demands -- leaving many neighbourhoods parched.
A sharp deficit of 3,000 megawatts of electricity adds to the woes of residents, who are forced to rely on neighbourhood generators to light up their lives and heat their homes.
"Sewerage, water and electricity are our three main problems," said Sheikhly, adding that many of these problems date back to the Saddam Hussein regime when not enough attention was paid to basic infrastructure.
"

father bob wrote on Feb 4, 2008 10:24 AM:

" """delusionalocrats"""

yep...word invention, no doubt. "

Early Bird wrote on Feb 5, 2008 7:01 AM:

" Father bob, if anyone else had used such atrocious grammar and spelling, old Tom Andres would have gone after them relentlessly, like he does anyone he disagrees with. I suppose right wing nut cases are safe from his ranting and raving. "

father bob wrote on Feb 5, 2008 8:49 AM:

" Early Bird wrote on Feb 5, 2008 7:01 AM:
" Father bob, if anyone else had used such atrocious grammar and spelling, old Tom Andres would have gone after them relentlessly, like he does anyone he disagrees with. I suppose right wing nut cases are safe from his ranting and raving. "

Yeah....and all the talk about trains makes me think he's had a serious derailment. must be all the pressure of being "right". "

Early Bird wrote on Feb 6, 2008 5:18 AM:

" For father bob: as I'm sure you noticed yesterday, I was giving the old stalker a taste of his own medicine, and I guess he didn't like it. Hopefully we will be spared some of his drivel for a few days at least. "

Dohbaugh wrote on Feb 6, 2008 12:19 PM:

" Hey EB, maybe old Tommy got lost down in Effingham looking for that music store. "

father bob wrote on Feb 6, 2008 3:49 PM:

" i'm really enjoying Rush Limbaugh and Ann Coulter along with Sean Hannity embarrassing themselves.

they've opened their mouths and it's gone into an overload status. they've painted themselves and any self-respecting neocon into a political corner.

it'll be interesting just exactly HOW they will be able to flip-flop on supporting john mccain and how exactly they'll be able to retract the vile, dehumanizing and polarizing statements they've made over the course of the past few weeks.....especially the last 3 days.

i think it's hilarious to watch, knowing just exactly how much squirming and retracting of statements will be made... "

Dohbaugh wrote on Feb 6, 2008 4:33 PM:

" If McCain gets the nomination, they will all fall in line, even old Tommy boy's hero the gasbag himself, Limbaugh. If you remember, Limbaugh was real cool towards Bush Sr, but after getting a personal invitation to the White House, old Rushie stated slobbering and gushing all over Bush, right up until up until the election. I think what is tearing those idiots up is that it looks like this election is turning out to be a complete rejection of conservatism and radical right wing politics, and their having a hard time with it. It has to be especially galling for them that Rupert Murdoch's rag in New York endorsed Hillary. I don't think they will squirm at all father bob, I think they will just continue to go on and practice their revisionist history telling as usual, and not bring up the fact that all of them had a complete melt down over McCain winning the nomination, which it looks like is going to happen. "

The Question wrote on Feb 6, 2008 5:40 PM:

" Dohbaugh is right. The talk radio and Fox News scum can trust in the fact that Americans have no memory for important matters, reverse their positions and pretend they never changed. Remember Bush the trillion-dollar nation builder, who was absolutely against nation-building? Remember the fact that Bush was going to get bin Laden "dead or alive," and then became completely unconcerned about him? Give Americans some NASCAR, a little beer, a lot of right-wing propaganda and maybe a Super Bowl, and they'll forget anything you want them to forget. "

Harry Potter wrote on Feb 6, 2008 7:10 PM:

" I too think it's rather funny to watch the meltdown of the likes of Coulter, Limbaugh, and Hannity et al. I also think this election will end notion that those clowns preach about this country really being conservative. This country has never been liberal or conservative, but in reality has been middle of the road all along. The right wingers are seeing their big lie come to an end and they don't like it one bit. Everything that the drug addict Limbaugh has been boasting about for years is unraveling, and old Rush is totally befuddled. Listening to Limbaugh today, one would think he is back on drugs again. Coulter and Hannity are nothing more that media whor#%, and could just as easily turn and start preaching another political philosophy, as long as they could make a buck about it. "

Stanley Stetson wrote on Feb 7, 2008 8:56 AM:

" BOO* look at'em scatter* "

father bob wrote on Feb 7, 2008 3:11 PM:

" Hail to the Chimp

" I would guess, I would surmise that some of the more spectacular bombings are done by al Qaeda suiciders. "
- George WTF Bush "

father bob wrote on Feb 7, 2008 5:28 PM:

" looks like the american public is left holding the bag for george WTF bush's insanity.

the budget for 2009 leaves NO MONEY for anything other a jacked up defense package, an inflated security package after dipping into medicare and services for children and poor folks.

remember new orleans and the bag-up job of rebuilding the admiistration is so committed to? and what about the aging bridges and infrastructure?

and lets not forget about the ongoing costs of an illegal war.

i think he and cheney need to answer for their wars crimes and then hung....at least we'd have some satisfaction.

"

Stanley Stetson wrote on Feb 7, 2008 10:10 PM:

" father bob: george wtf? bush* you potty mouth* and to think i thought all of you dems were about family values and stuff* it must be part of that great democrat meltdown* it was bound to happen* "

The Question wrote on Feb 8, 2008 5:47 AM:

" Yes, Bush actually said this.
-----
Bush: Obama, Clinton Threaten "Prosperity And Peace"
President Bush, rallying conservatives for a battle against Democratic presidential hopefuls Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Obama, says "prosperity and peace" are at stake in the upcoming election for his successor.
"

Early Bird wrote on Feb 8, 2008 7:23 AM:

" Hey father bob, remember when you were a little kid and one of your friends tried to get to you by parroting everything you said? Perhaps our friend Stanley-Doh, or whatever name he is using now, is reverting to his childhood. Keep it up, it really makes the rest of us look better in comparison. "

Stanley Stetson wrote on Feb 8, 2008 3:00 PM:

" Early Bird: aaaw.... shucks, i didn't know you cared* thanks* with this kind of love, i never want to leave* have a great weekend, buds* "

The Question wrote on Feb 9, 2008 6:56 PM:

" Dahlia Lithwick —
It's been a banner week for water-boarding. This centuries-old practice of simulated drowning to extract false confessions and false testimony has really benefited of late from a good old legal reassessment and a smoking-hot PR campaign. In the course of a few short years, water-boarding has morphed from torture that unquestionably violates both federal and international law to an indispensable tool in the fight against terror.
Charting that progression is almost not worth doing anymore, so familiar are the various feints and steps. First, the administration breaks the law in secret. Then it denies breaking the law. Then it admits to the conduct but asserts that settled law is not in fact settled anymore because some lawyer was willing to unsettle it. Then the administration insists that the basis for unsettling the law is secret but that there are now two equally valid sides to the question. And then the administration gets Congress to rewrite the old law by insisting it prevents the president from thwarting terror attacks and warning that terrorists will strike tomorrow unless Congress ratifies the new law. Then it immunizes the law breakers from prosecution.
That's how Americans have come to reconcile themselves to illegal warrantless eavesdropping and to prisoner abuse at Guantanamo Bay. It's why we're no longer bothered in the least by the abuse of national-security letters or extraordinary rendition or by presidential signing statements. Deny, admit, codify, then immunize. The law as quickstep. "

father bob wrote on Feb 11, 2008 9:03 AM:

" Hail to the Chimp

" The United States Congress was right to renew the terrorist act -- the Patriot Act. "
- George WTF Bush "

The Question wrote on Feb 11, 2008 11:07 AM:

" Joel Achenbach — In an age of warring certainties, of dogmas gone ballistic, uncertainty is viewed as the shaky prelude to going wobbly. Confidence is what citizens look for in their leaders and, increasingly, in their pundits. The pros know that John Wayne never said, "On the other hand . . . " It's dangerous to change or modify a position. The worst thing you can say about a politician today is that "he was for it before he was against it."
Washington is full of alpha males (some of them female) who would no sooner express doubt than join a knitting circle. Their mantra is "Failure is not an option." But perhaps we might suggest (meekly) that sometimes failure needs to be an option -- which is to say, you ought to have a Plan B in case your initial indubitable judgment turns out wrong.
We need to rehabilitate doubt and uncertainty and recognize them as tools for cutting through mushy notions and wishful thinking. We need to stop elevating decisiveness over intelligence in the list of political virtues. We need leaders who think more like scientists, who know that knowledge is provisional, that today's orthodoxy might be invalidated tomorrow. We need to learn how to think again. "

father bob wrote on Feb 11, 2008 3:46 PM:

" from the Zoo... Former Arkansas Governor Mike Huckabee has won electoral contests by focusing his pitch to religious conservatives around the country. And in a Sunday visit to the church of the deceased Rev. Jerry Falwell, Huckabee threw that base some more red meat.

“We really don’t need a lot of law if we’re people of morality,” Huckabee said at the Thomas Road Baptist Church in Lynchburg, Virginia, according to a report in the Lynchburg News Advance. “There are only 10 basic laws that we need … the reason that the law is more complicated is because we try to find clever ways around those 10.”

“I hope you know Jesus Christ personally…because the level to which he rules you and governs you, you need less and less of man’s law to tell you how to live and that is what our Founding Fathers understood and we must understand,” he preached.

So, does this mean, if president, he won’t have to abide by the laws or the Constitution of the United States..? (Haven’t we already tried that? And look where its got us..)

I think Mike Huckabee needs to read up on the separation of church and state.. Hopefully this is just pandering to the far right Christian Conservative evangelicals, and he doesn’t honestly mean this.. Because, it would mean he is seriously a nutcase.

We’ve already had one nutcase-in-chief; we don’t need another. He is supposedly running for President of the United States, not President of the Evangelical Christians of the United States.. "

The Question wrote on Feb 11, 2008 4:34 PM:

" Here's your "successful surge," gang.
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Dozens Die In Iraq Bombings During Gates Visit
Twin car bombs targeted a meeting of U.S.-allied Sunni tribal leaders Monday in Baghdad, killing at least 22 civilians and wounding 42, Iraqi officials said.
"

Early Bird wrote on Feb 12, 2008 5:11 AM:

" The latest victim of Bush's war: the local task force, which had it's budget cut by 67%, according to this mornings paper. Where are the law and order types on this one? How are people like our friend, attainedage, going to justify this? I look forward to his, and other Bush supporters, spin on this issue. "

The Question wrote on Feb 12, 2008 5:11 PM:

" Here's more on your "successful surge:"
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The speaker of Iraq's fragmented parliament threatened Tuesday to disband the legislature, saying it is so riddled with distrust it appears unable to adopt the budget or agree on a law setting a date for provincial elections.
Disbanding parliament would prompt new elections within 60 days and further undermine Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki's shaky government, which is limping along with nearly half of the 40 Cabinet posts vacant.
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But don't worry. The Pentagon will issue some news lies to obscure this reality, so you won't have to trouble your continuous sleep. "