" Can you say "going down in flames?" "

" WOW NOW THE CURRENT PLAYERS ARE . HEY MILLER ITS TIME TO PUT THE HOUSE ON THE MARKET. HEY EIU ATHLETICS, CALL COACH RICK TELL HIM WE HAVE A NEW OFFICE FOR HIM. "

" Let the haters speak. I think that it is interesting how people enjoy when negative things happen to others. Of course, the same people don't go to games now and did not go to games before Miller. It must make them feel better about themselves when they see things not go so well for someone else. "

" Perhaps Coach Miller's son can do double duty with the basketball and baseball teams to finish out the season. "

" Merry Christmas! "

" This is to RDCENT. I am not a negative person nor do I enjoy critizing the current program. However, if you can find something positive about this situation, please show it to me. I do not go to many games mainly because I live in Effingham and I rarely have the time to go there. Besides, the games are shown on TV. I will say that when I was a student there in the early 1970's(Don Eddy era) I rarely missed a game, then only because I wasn't in town. The current program is in the pits and the news that came down today just deepens it. I dread to think about the rest of this season. I am not used to Panther basketball being this bad. "

" The program is in bad shape, but the loss of these three players isn't going to hurt. It just opens up a couple more scholarships. I believe Miller has one more year on his contract and I'm sure he will get it as EIU can' afford to buy it out. I hope he turns things around, but I have my doubts. "

" No great loss with the three that left although I feel bad for Robinson as he was a solid contributor his first two years but has fallen off this year. It gives Miller a couple more scholarships for this year. No doubt the program is in sad shape. I believe Miller has one more year on his contract and I'm sure he will get it as EIU can't afford to buy it out. I hope he can get things heading in the right direction, but I have my doubts although they have seemed to play better against TSU and EKU. "

" People are complaining that a kid got kicked off for doing something he wasn't supposed to do? What? I'm confused. "

" RDCENT, NOT A HATER JUST HUGE NCAA BASKETBALL FAN AND SUPPORT THE PANTERS BECAUSE OF LOCAL TIES. I HAVE BEEN IN LANTZ SINCE "COACH S" CAME AND HAVE SEEN THE PLACE PACKED IN THE DUCKWORTH AND COLLINS ERA ALSO THE GREAT EIU AUSTIN PEAY GAMES IN THE 90'S. SOME HATERS MAY EXIST YES, BUT IM NOT ONE. FACTS SUPPORT THE CURRENT SITUATION WITH THE BASKETBALL NOT OPINIONS. ALL I KNOW IS SOMETHING HAS TO GIVE. "

" After reading the other article with more information, it seems that 2 of the 3 left for personal reasons, nothing to do with the head coach but they seemed HOMESICK, which can happen. Robinson just seemed like he was too much trouble to deal with and the team might be better without him. If anything, I think this may make a better case for recruiting closer to home so the young men have family and friends in the area. "

" In all fairness to Miller, I doubt many people, much less a coach, could measure up to Rick Samuels. The fact is that lots of coaches struggle with disciplinary issues. Just look at what happened at Illinois last year. What will define Miller is how he deals with disciplinary issues. He's making a clear statement here that he won't tolerate them. Of course, the best possible scenario is for a coach to develop strong character in athletes. That will be Miller's challenge, as it is for any coach. Samuels succeeded in that regard, and it's that by which we measure him. But we shouldn't brush aside the reality, that college sports are about winning at nearly all costs in today's society. "

" Look, NOT having Mike Robinson is going to hurt the team..THIS season. Next year they will be able to rebuild around this situation. Miller made a decesion that had to be made, but unfortunately down the stretch, this will hurt the team. He was the most consistent player they had, played the best defense and was the only true floor general. I don't know the entire situations off the court that lead to his movement, but I am just stating the facts. I had seen comments quoting that the lost of these three players isn't going to hurt and I have to disagree on Robinson's case. "

" eiu06 wrote --- Look, NOT having Mike Robinson is going to hurt the team..THIS season. --- They team is 1-9, how is it goint to hurt? "

" Can you say three strait 20 loss seasons? Wow, what an embarrassment. EIU basketball is a disgrace! Looks like all that money that was put into this new coach and program the past three years has really helped. How sad. It's easy to see where the Panthers would be at with quality people at the helm, such as Samuels and Church. Wish all this money and new offices would have gone to them. Eastern Illinois basketball will never be the same. "

" How's it going to hurt? You got 19 games left! That's how. It's going to be a losing season regardless, I could of told you that before the season started. Now your at a point when you want to get a few more wins however you can get them. "

" Losing Mike Robinson is definitely going to hurt this team. he was a major part of the team for the past 2 years. This is yet another blow for a program going downhill fast. but let's get real. the true problem with the team is not its players but with the coaching. In his three years at the school Coach Miller has taken this team in the wrong direction. After his first year only 4 players elected to return. Of course, any coach in Miller's position wants to bring in his own recruited players. Coach Miller used this fact as his excuse for the teams record his first year. Last year's record was slightly better that the year before but we still heard excuses from coach Miller about why the record wasn't better. Now in his third year the team's record is worse than year one. Coach Miller should stop making excuses and take responsibility for his team's performance. He has the talent. These are very athletic players. However, it appears his offensive scheme doesn't fit the talent he has. He should stop trying to fit a square peg in a round hole and let the guys play b-ball. I bet we would see a totally differnt game. one that is more exciting and fun to watch. Maybe the A.D. should look at going in another direction with a different Coach. We tried this way and it ain't working. Time for something new. "

" Somebody has some sense! Thank you Kooky 655! Thats all I was meaning to say. This guy was a key factor with that team, and it will hurt them. But if your throwing in the towel with 10 games into the season, then no it wont hurt them. Did he make a right decesion? That answer cant be made right now. But enough about that, Miller just needs to get rid of that Triangle offense! Thats an offense that is not made for college basketball. I cant name one college basketball team that ran the triangle and was successful doing so. At the professional level its different and even those pros say it takes them about 30-40 games to grasp. In college thats your season! Like you said, they have the players to do it! Honestly I don't think Miller is the problem, he just needs to make changes on the court. Thats triangle is just crippling the kids game, which leads to them not being happy, which ultimately leads to this. "

" Last years record was slightly better, but you have to remember they play 3 extra games now. In stead of 27 they play 30 in the NCAA. So who knows what it could have been. Honestly,I hope the best for all these guys. I do believe you cant say that EIU basketball will never be the same! It's going through a bad stage but you have to understand that it wont always be this way. Hopefully they can get a win tonight. "

" I love hearing the Samuelites talk like he ran a championship program. I did a little research on the EIU webpage and here are the facts: record of 47-68 his last 4 seasons and 139-147 in his last 10 seasons! You people act like Mike Miller took over for Dean Smith with a strong stable of players waiting for him. In fact, there wasnt a single solid, consistent, strong player on the team Samuels left (George Tandy is averaging an unimpressive 5.4 a game as a redshirt-junior at Cleveland State). The reality is that this program was BAD and when things are bad and getting worse, as they were when Samuels was fired, it takes more than 2-3 seasons to get it on the right track. It might also help the program if Brian Nielsen would stop bringing up Samuels and former weak players, that quit or transferred, in half of his EIU related articles (Samuels as an AD candidate? Give me a break!!). All you Miller and EIU Basketball haters listen to this...this year isnt over and the team could use your support in the stands, not on your couch watching on TV or not at all; Miller will be back and the team will begin to flourish next year as the young talent continues to improve and more young talent arrives (only 1 Samuels recruit left on the roster next season). Unfortuantely, by the time you relaize the good that is happening with EIU basketball, this staff will have been bought by a bigger program and will have moved on. I hope you don't miss out. "

" what a joke - samuels? give mike miller a chance. if you're not at the games supporting the team you have no right to speak on the issue. no one should condem miller for dismissing a player for violating team rules - you people don't even know what that kid did. there is a reason he is the basketball coach and you are not. "

" Well said eiualum. "

" I agree with you and I am not a Samuelite by any means. I wish EIU basketball the best. Players and coaches! If we are true fans we would all have that attitude. We agreed to bring Miller in and should stand by that until time is due. I just think he needs to change that offense. The team passes the ball around the basket while the defensive guys are just pressuring them throughout the entire shot clock, then they shoot a shot with 5 seconds left?! Thats continues on the whole game.It's not the offense for them, period. If any of you guys like going to the games and watching that, then let me know. Also one thing, "Love the Game"...Samuels did have a "Single solid, consistent, strong player on the team when he left. Josh Gomes was on the roster Miller's first year and is in his second year playing pro ball at the highest level in Europe. And if it wasn't for Jake Byrne and Bobby Catchings the team this year would be even worst. (If thats capable). Both of these guys....Samuels recruits. "

" I can appreciate what youre saying about the offensive system eiu06 and can even slightly go with you on Josh Gomes, he was a descent player with a great attitude who embraced the coaching change and performed admirably his senior year. But I'll disagree on Catchings and Byrne. If they were not here they would have been able to use those 2 scholarships to recruit better players. Byrne has lost more games on missed layups at crunch time than any player I've ever seen and Catchings is as consistent on the court as George W. Bush is with good grammar. They are both just OK players and were surpassed early this season by Justin Brock, a sophomore,who unfortunately has been injured since before the tourney in Iowa. I'm simply saying that, I believe, the freshmen and sophomores are the best talent on the team and they are all Miller recruits (Martin, Cisse, Brock, Dorlack, & Laser) and the last three are injured and out or recovering from a major injury. The team is actually playing with less this year than last year, due to injury. "

" Hey, I am not saying it wasn't time for Samuel's season to end. Everything has a season. Maybe Samuel's season was over. Probably not.Every program has its ups and downs. Samuel was in a down cycle but had started to turn the program around.Who knows. Samuels next season may have been the turn around one. The former AD isn't someone I would place a lot of confidence in. I read he wanted to go in a new direction and that's the reason for the change. Well he got what he wanted. A new direction. Mike Miller obviously isn't the one who can make the change for the better. I don't agree Mike Miller should have the opportunity to finish out his contract. Remember, he only had a three year contract.The former AD got an extension of both his own and Coach Millers contract at the end of Miller's first season. Well, the AD is gone and by rights Miller should be also as this would have been the end of his contract. EIU can't afford not to buy out his contract. I am sure they are losing money. Attendence is down and I have to wonder about booster support. At the rate the program is going there may not be a program left.I do attend the games and these are my observations. What I see on the court is a Coach who refuses to adjust his offense, who penalizes players for making a mistake, and who "micro" coaches from the sidelines. Have you ever seen how he runs down the sidelines yelling at the players!? I have actually seen players stop mid-play to try and listen to what Coach is saying. I have also seen at least 2 missed opportunities this season because the players are not allowed to make a shot before there is at least 10 secs left on the clock and were not able to get the shot off before the clock ran out. Miller's style of coaching is "old School". Today's players play a fast paced game. We are the laughing stock of the OVC. Everyone we play knows our offense, probably better than we know it ourselves. They know coach Miller is not going to change. It may take more than 3-4 years to rebuild a program but when you have a Coach who keeps doing the same thing and keeps getting the same result, it is time to do something else.Like I said before, everything has a season. Miller's is over. Miller is not using his talent to the best of their ability. He has these players scared to play. Players make a mistake and immediately look to see who is coming in to replace them. No one is allowed to take a shot except for a couple of players. And the triangle offense???!!! Give me a break,. It took Michael Jordan and Scotty Pippen to run this offense in the pros. We are not hardly pros. Players playing scared, not allowed to shoot and playing an offense no college team is playing, WHO CAN PLAY LIKE THAT? That is why I believe Miller's time is up. His coaching style is antiquated. Heck, I believe he would have Michael Jordan scared to shoot and that's saying sumthin! We are not ever going to be able to attract high caliber recruits if this program continues in this vein. "

" I agree with the Coach Miller's decision to dismiss a player from his own team because I think "

" All I am saying about Catchings and Byrne is..out of the top five..I feel those guys are in that group. And that can be anybody s argument so it really doesn't matter too much you know. I have spoke to players and every complaint is the offense, not him, just the offensive system. And I think he had great players his first year. He didn't know how to use Duany, Tandy, Gomes, and the list goes on. If your record in the third season is 17-50, you cant look at the players any more. Like I been saying its just the system. Why be stubborn when your 17-50 at EIU? "

" I think you can push the word "slightly" a little more. I mean the guys a pro basketball player. Josh Gomes was one of EIU all time great scorers ever to be at the school. Easily could have been in the top of the tops' if Samuels stayed around. Also George Tandy, could have been one of the best rebounder's and block shots leader ever to be at EIU also. He just doesn't know how to use talent. And if your a true basketball fan you can see that. At Kansas St. they weren't successful running the triangle either so its an on-going trend it seems to me. "

" Well said kooky 655! "

" I'm just glad there are a few other people out there that care about the program. I'm not sure Miller is the guy but he has one more year on his contract and I hope things improve. George Tandy may well have been the softest player I have ever seen in my life, although I will admit he had some talent. He was just frustating to watch. Josh Gomes was a solid player but no where in the class of a Jay Taylor, Kyle Hill, or Henry Domercant. Romain Martin (Miller recruit) is twice the player Josh Gomes was. I don't believe Miller had that much talent to work with his first year. "

" I remember when I saw that Rick Samuels had been fired. He had took over a program from Don Eddy,and at first Rick Samuels in no way measured up. However, he lasted there a long time. I read a comment from the then-AD which said that Miller would be a coach very similar to Rick Samuels. At that time I thought "he's a coach very similar to one you just fired..." I see I've been proven right. "

" I see where they did it again. "

" eiu06...I KNOW you didnt mention Duany! He was so good he couldnt get a roster spot on a D-II team when he left of his own free will. kooky 655 - It has taken the Brady Sallee, the women's coach, 4 years to get his team moving in the right direction and they moved backwards before they could move forward. I believe the men's team will be the same way. The difference is Coach Sallee has a contract through his 5th season. The industry standard is 5 years to turn a program around. I think Miller not only should stay, but should get the opportunity for a 5th season to have a full chance to do his job. As for drawing talent, the young players are VERY talented, but they are sophomores and freshmen. You should also check out the 4 players EIU signed early. They are of the same caliber or better than the existing freshmen and sophomores and a big step up from the juniors and seniors on the roster. As for Miller's penalizing players, I've heard he is just tired of the same guys making the same mistakes over and over so when they do something stupid, they get pulled. I know if I made some of the mental mistakes, when I was in high school, I've seen from a few of these guys, I would have been sent to the locker room not the bench! It is way too early to be calling for his term as coach to end and too early in the season to assume it can't get much better. Brock will be back soon and Laser's shooting shoulder should continue to improve. January and February could be much different. Let's just wait and see and evaluate at the end of the season, not a third of the way into his 3rd season, especially considering some of these key injuries. "

" Ha No comment...I can see we are just dealing with straight stubbornness. Stubbornness leads you to a 17-51 record! With the snowball continuing to roll downhill. "

" You know, we can get caught up in who recruited who but what does that matter. We have who we have and we have a coach who doesn't know what he has or how to work with what he has. I believe a couple of Samuels last recruits were good ones and some of Millers recruits are good but NO player can succeed in this current offense. Miller came in and took away Josh Gomes last season with this offense. Miller does not develop the talent he has. He has good players. We can be competitive! EIU06 brought up a good point. Kansas State ran the triangle offense. Miller was an assistant coach there. Kansas was losing with this offense. I believe Miller saw the writing on the wall and left Kansas. Not long after, the Kansas Coach was fired. Unfortunately, Miller didn't learn from his Kansas experience. He brought that same losing offense with him to EIU. We lost again last night. I watched the game and same old story. Triangle offense equals lost game. Miller believes in this offense and is not going to change it. Therefore the only way to change this offense is to change the coach. We have a lot of season ahead of us. It's going to be a long one. Hopefully, Miller will see the writing on the wall and do what is best for the team and the program and take his no shoot philosophy, no scoring triangle offense to some other program. "

" kooky 655 - how did you watch the game which was played on the road and not broadcast on WEIU? If you check out the stats though, the offense you speak sp poorly of shot 60% for the game. Also, Dorlack played last night for the first time since his injury, if Brock gets back in early January you might have to eat a little crow..with 18 games left and 3 straight games of solid performances (2 on the road) I see the glass as half full while you see it as totally dry. "

" Stop commenting to "Love the Game". Obviously he's one of the assistant coaches. lol "

" Love the game, I too love the game. That's why I go on the ovc website and pay $7 and watch a video stream of the away conference games. I did check out the statistics. We outplayed them in every statistical category except free throws and we still lost the game. I don't see the glass as neither half full or empty. I see players playing their hearts out in an offense that is not condusive to their style of play. I take my hat off to these players, especially the juniors and seniors. They go out every game and play to win in spite of this offense. I hope next year is better for the kids sake but I don't hold out much hope. If you always do what you always did, You'll always get what you always got. "

" First of all lets address all you people who really don't know about the bball issue you are talking about. First, it isn't Mike Millers fault that Rick Samuels was fired. Second, good for Mike Miller for doing the right thing concerning his team. Third, good luck to him in, in trying to make eiu bball competitive. Now lets talk about Coach Samuels. I get sick of hearing people bash him. One, he is a great man, high morals and ethics and 90%+ of his kids graduated. Two, he took a program from division II to division I with a division III budget. Ever ask Rick Samuels what his recruiting budget was? Ever ask coach Samuels how many times the carpet in his office was replaced? None, not in 25 years. Anyone try to renovate Lantz gym, or any other facilities in coach Samuels 25 years? Did Coach Samuels get cars, cell phones etc, maybe, but not to the extent of today. Was he asked to compete in the..Um the 4 different conferences he was in from the Gateway to the Mid COn to the revamped Mid Con to the O.V.C. DId he compete? Yes. Did he beat Murray State, a team who went to the N.C.A.A regularly, YES in a GYM that seats 6,000 people. Did coach Samuels put 2 guys in the N.B.A and 2-5 others in pro ball? YES..DId coach Samuels risk yearly contract, not long term deals because he loved EIU? Yes. Did he give back to EIU.? YES. DID coach Samuels win? YES. 2 N.C.A.A trips. Not to bad for a mid major who plays in a gym. Did Coach Samuels assistants go on? Yes, Ricky Birdsong, Steve Yount, Dave Weber, David Cason, Matt Painter, Hank Harris, etc. etc. etc. See what they have to say about his bball coaching ability. It will be good. So until "all of you" who don't want to give coach Samuels credit, maybe you better go do some more research! Ever ask "what if coach Samuels had all the resources that are currently available?" Maybe 5 N.C.A.A trips, maybe more W's maybe better players than kids who no one else wanted i.e. Kyle Hill, Henry Domercant, N.B.A all star Kevin Duckworth. Ask his former players how much coach has done for them after they graduated. Ever wonder if Coach Samuels had other, better offers to leave? He chose to stay at EIU because of his love and passion for his university and community. Finally, for all of you who don't know!! Stay with what you do know. Don't judge in these forums if you don't know anything but being an "armchair" guy. "

" eiu 06: what I wouldnt give to be assistant coach instead of a lowly graduate student at EIU. Now, if you or kooky would be willing to give out your names, maybe we could have a cup of coffee and actually talk about this stuff or take in a game together in January. What do you say? "

" Ha yeah I know you weren't. It just seemed like you were so Pro Miller it was hard to tell lol. I love EIU, and any coach that comes in I will support. I know basketball, and that system they are in just isn't it (I think). I hope the best for the rest of the season! Also, I agree with you "Woody" on what you said. To get back on the topic, does anybody know where Robinson will transfer out this year? "

" Robinson has been called by two of his former Chicago Hales teammates who play for Div II Quincy University. I don't know what his response was. I think its interesting That QU beat Harris-Stowe 106-74 with their Motion Offense(Harris-Stowe had Brandon Davis back in the line-up a starter that scored 23pts, that didn't play against EIU). EIU beat Harris-Stowe 86-63. I know you can't draw to many conclusions from a score but QU emptied their bench about the same time EIU did during the game, with two walk-ons playing several minutes. Good luck to mike. "

" Robinson was called by two Quincy University players whom Mike played with on the State Champion Chicago Hales team in H.S. Not sure of his response. Quincy U. beat Harris-Stowe 106-74. A team EIU beat 85-63. QU is a DII school that plays a fast paced motion offense (they have back to back 100 plus games). You can't draw to many conclusions from a score but it does show the contrast between styles of play. QU and EIU both emptied their respective bences at about the same time in the game. QU finished with two walkons who played several minutes. EIU's only walk-on (Brandon) did not play. Believe me, the talent EIU has is a level above QU's talent. "

" Oops- I posted twice. My first time on this board. Just wanted to re-iterate that EIU has the talent(two notches above QU), its the style. I believe things will get better, after the break. "

" Well said Woody!! Your recitation of coach Samuels accomplishments is both accurate and informative. As to EIU b-ball's current state the blame must be placed squarely on the shoulders of the head coach-Mike Miller. The buck must stop there. Much has been stated by previous posters about the woeful inadequacy of the coaching schemes, primarily the offense. It is clear to any knowledgable observer that the offensive schemes employed by Miller are ill concieved and totally inappropriate for his personnel. However, it seems that he's a one trick pony, totally incapable of any kind of change or adjustment. The recent loss to Eastern Kentucky illustrates the inherent deficiencies of this offense. Kooky 655 correctly pointed out that EIU outplayed EKU in every offensive statistical category except free-throw attempts (18 to 7). The Miller apologists will argue the difference was due to unfair treatment from referees in a hostile enviornment. The truth is that the offensive scheme is designed for perimeter jump shots with little or no opportunity to drive to the basket and get fouled. In a typical EIU game you will see 95% jump shots from the perimeter(or further out). Points in the paint? Please! The perimeter players won't even look to pass inside inside. It's not part of the scheme.When you couple this with the fact that the team is forced to hold the ball and not attempt a shot at the basket until there are 10 seconds or less left on the shot clock it is clear that even their best efforts are doomed to failure (i.e. EKU game)because of the limitations of the offensive scheme. The players deserve better. EIU06 hit the nail on the head-he knows basketball and the Miller system ain't it. Fortunately the stars are aligning. The previous AD's reign of terror is over. Miller's benefactor is gone. Hopefully the Miller regime will soon be gone too. I hope the interim AD or the new AD will have the courage to stop the hemmoragging and make a change. "

" jack...The former AD's reign of terror? Everyone seems to think everyone on here will believe their opinion and not research for facts. All McDuffie did in 10 years were the things all previous AD's had been incapable of doing. He renovated or upgraded every athletic facility and drastically increased the budgets of all of the OVC sports. Yes, he fired Samuels but if you know Illinois law, he must also have given Samuels a years notice with certain goals that must be met in order to keep his job. Apparently, those goals weren't met by the former Coach Samuels and his staff, so they were terminated. And don't even get me started on wrestling. The wrestlers caused more problems in Charleston over the years than all other teams combined! They started more fights, got arrested more, and their academics were crap. I'm glad they are gone and EIU will be better off in the long run for ditching that program!

As for Men's Basketball, I've cited very simply, in previous postings, that the "hemmoragging" began long before this coach got here. I am not trying to be Miller's advocate but I think everyone is being a bit to hard on him this early in his tenure. Like I said before, the industry standard is 5 years to turn a program around and this is only year three. If he has recruited the talent, as several negative posters have said, then whats the harm in giving him a chance to actually use that talent to make something out of EIU basketball? If he can't do it in 5 years, he should resign or be fired...just like Samuels...but give him a chance to make it. I'll support him through year 4 next year and year 5 if he gets it. If they begin to win, I'm betting you'll support him to. "

" All I know is that Miller is on his way to his third strait 20 loss season, and has not won a division 1 basketball game this season. This maybe a record setting season for the Panthers. Eastern's RPI in Division 1 college basketball is dead last. 341 out of 341. Now that is an accomplishment. Earlier it was stated that "love the game" might be an assistant coach. Nah...but can you say Kelly Miller? HAHAHA love it

"

" Can you say ELEVEN straight losses. Nothing against Miller. Except, his offensive scheme stinks, doesn't work, is bringing us further down. In short it sucks. Miller is taking young stallions and treating them like donkeys. He wants to take today's young athletes who likes a run and gun game and slow them down to a snail's pace. Then he wants to make a lot of excuses for the losses. Miller's record speaks for itself. I don't know what "industry standard" L.T.G. is speaking of but I have seen many a coach fired after having three sraight losing seasons and no one was concerned with the amount of time left on the contract. Bottom line is this, no one likes a loser. As a coach Miller is a loser. Miller was brought in to turn around a losing program. Not only has he continued the losing streak he is now in a position to break the previously set record for losses in a row. Miller has taught our boys how to lose rather than how to win. I hope for the boys sake things do turn around. It must be very disheartning to go out game after game and put your all into winning only to lose. They are only doing what Miller is asking them to do and that is play in an offense that has not worked. Basketball and football are most schools bread and butter. A winning program attracts money. We need to get this turned around and Miller is not the one to do it.Miller talks about defining a program. Well the coach defines the program good or bad. If Miller is allowed to finish out his contract I can only hope he stops making excuses and first look to himself and realize the buck stops with him. "

" samuels last year coaching(2004-2005) went 12-16 with a very difficult schedule( depaul, nevada, Northern Illinois, Kansas st, purdue , and not to mention a very difficult OVC).. miller comes in the following year with the same team and wins 6 games... are u kidding me? and in millers first year they played a watered down schedule with the exception of Xavier...

in his second year he wins 10 games and losing 20 which is still sad. and in his third year he hasnt won a game and theyre rated 341 out of 341 for d1 bball teams. Are you kidding me?
with everyone back, with everyone one a year more experienced.. thats a joke

what im saying is miller took over a team that won 12 games with a tough schedule who didnt lose anyone and managed to only win six games. Then he goes from 10 to 1 win with everyone back in his third year.. hes got to go.. plain and simple "

" panther 00 I'm going to do you a favor hopefully before love the game does ha. He took over a team that won 12 games but they did lose some players after that year. (Millers first year). They lost Dildy who had a great senior season, and is far better then any point guard they have had since. Then they lost a few other quality seniors. To start off with Aaron Patterson(who is by far better then Cisse),then role players that played out well. I agree with you on the tougher schedule and also the OVC seemed to be at a higher level then what it is now. But anyway, all I am saying is Miller had lost some guys for his first year. I am telling you this because Love the Game would be the next to. I do still agree with what is said and going into his 70th game at EIU, the finger shouldn't be pointed at the players now. They are playing better as of late and have had some close games, mostly on the road. Now that they have some home games coming up, hopefully they can get some wins which I think would build the teams confidence a little more. Love the Game said the "Hemmoragging" began long before Miller got here. I think thats a strong word but its some sense its true. However, he has dug a hole way deeper then Samuels did. I was no where's around Charleston at the time, but Samuels third season in at EIU, I don't think his record was 17-52. Correct me if I am wrong. And I am sure the "Hemmoragging" began long before Samuels got the job, which is why he got the job. And according to you, its the same reason why Miller got the job. Its difficult not to be hard on a coach when a team that lost no one due to graduation or anything else, has come back with the same roster and hasn't won a D1 game yet. January 3rd can be the first for them, so until then we will see. Always hope the best for them and never the worst. "

" Love the game, obviously in your world Mike Miller bears absolutely no responsibility for the team's current position.In previous postings you've pointed to the players stupid mistakes and the juniors and seniors lack of talent as primary reasons for the awful record. Yet those same talentless players you blame for the poor record have not quit. They fight hard every game but are hampered by Miller's poor coaching. Their character and competitive spirit is what keeps them in games to the very end. They do this in spite of and certainly not because of Miller who never misses an opportunity to throw his players under the bus. LTG, your constant denigration of the players in your attempt to defend the indefensible(Miller) is the most glaring example of "blaming the victim" that I've seen. The players are victimized by an incompetent, outdated coaching strategy and we the fans are victims because we have to watch it. Your arguments make me wonder how a person can profess to "love the game" and yet hate the players?

LTG refers to "industry standards" in arguing that Miller's incompetence should be rewarded by extending his contract. Industry standards apply to programs which show improvement and are heading in the right direction. Miller started off bad and has gotten worse. Panther00 correctly points out that Miller inherited players that won 12 games the year before he came (in a schedule that was much more difficult).Things were supposed to be looking up. Miller made them worse.

After every loss Miller has a long string of self serving excuses, none of which involve an admission that he is even partly to blame. It is always someone else's fault-the players, the refs, the boogieman-you name it. I hope the EIU athletic administration can see thru this charade. He has got to go! "