" yawn "

" Good grief, Penny, you're all over the place with this one. It also appears that your trolling for comments from the readers. Don't beg, if your column is worthy of comments, they will come on their own. "

" Trolling for comments? Please. Penny, I enjoy your columns - they are fun to read.....and on this issue, I agree with you. I don't smoke, don't like to be around smoke, and chose not to frequent establishments where there is a lot of smoke. I'm glad many restaurants have already gone smoke free, I don't visit the bars anymore, so they don't matter to me, and not smoking outside, seems a little extreme, although I do hate to see cigarette butts littering the ground of every entryway to a building. That's disgusting. "

" "Illinois's excise tax per pack of cigarettes: $0.980 Illinois's excise tax collection for the fiscal year ending June 2004: $744,402,000 - Sales tax on tobacco products: 6.25% - Tobacco products sales tax collection for the fiscal year ending June 2004: $189,078,000 - Local tax on tobacco products: $94,252,187 - Federal excise tax per pack of cigarettes: $0.39 - Total federal excise tax collections in fiscal year 2004: $7,778,569,117 - Number of six-packs of beer that must be sold in Illinois to produce the same state excise tax and settlement revenue generated by one carton of cigarettes: 137 - Number of bottles of wine that must be sold in Illinois to produce the same state excise tax and settlement revenue generated by one carton of cigarettes: 97" Where do you think the state is going to go for this revenue when the taxes and restrictions basically force all of us to quit? Wake up from your slumber people. They will get their money and YOU will be the ones they'll get it from. "

" I agree with Beaches on this one. I find it hard to believe that ANYONE could be SET IN STONE with just one belief for EVERY possible instance. In other words, there are millions of us that when asked a question about how we feel about something, the answer depends on the exact wording of the question and the circumstances surrounding the question. Coonsey's View: www.freewebs.com/coonsey/ "

" Penny, LOL, when your dad was advising you to find the midpoint to discover truth, did he happen to mention two of my favorite points of reference when seeking wisdom and truth? Did he tell you the story of Solomon and the baby claimed by two mothers (1 Kings 3)? Did he sing a verse or two of "Did You Ever Have To Make Up Your Mind" (1966) by The Lovin' Spoonful? //// Please, in 1,000 words or less (preferably one word), are you for or against Mr. Grady's extreme position on smoking bans? "

" Well said Becky!!!! "

" Becky, assuming your findings are accurate, that's an impressive compilation of tax facts. Where did you find those stats? //// Here's a tax fact most folks refuse to believe. The average per household share of the state of Illinois budget for 2008 is just under $13,000. When you add up total spending proposed and divide it by total number of households in Illinois, that's the number. No one pays taxes in Illinois (or anywhere else) except the end consumer, but for some reason, few people realize just how out of control government spending really is! //// If we were required to write a $13,000 check each year for our share of state expenses, I guarantee you there'd be some changes made. That's why Springfield and DC love complexity (and stealth) written into all tax code provisions. "

" http://www.illinoissmokersrights.com/il_tobacco_taxes.html. "

" Becky--- I notice that the web site didn't talk much on the zillions of tax payer dollars spent on illnesses brought on by smoking..... "

" The only thing that makes me not look forward to Harry Reynolds' retirement is the prospect of more Penny Weaver columns. "

" *LAUGHING!* "

" Penny, I enjoy your columns. Always the right amount of humor mixed with facts to keep it interesting. As far as the commenters go on here, you can't win with them. Some don't like Harry, some don't like you...they should write their own guest columns if they don't like what they read...or quit reading what they don't like and then complaining about it. Keep them coming Penny!!! "

" I've noticed that a lot of the people complaining about the societal health costs of smoking are very overweight. I would like to regulate where these individual's eat to try to cut down on some of the costs associated with morbid obesity. I also don't like to be around fat people when their eating, it's just disgusting. "

" ZO ZA, you are totally right. We should also tax people who drive cars, anyone who heats their home, people who leave the water running too long, I mean the list could go on. People have their vices, but since we have identified smoking as the one not to be accepted, we should go after smokers apparently. I think its because so many of us are fat we dont want a fat tax. If the majority of us smoked, there would be no talk of a smokers tax or ban. "

" I am glad to see more people take the "politically incorrect" stance of having mixed emotions on this. Smoking or not is a choice, being around smoking or not is also a choice. Thanks Penny for keeping it real! "

" On the smoking ban: the fat lady has sung, it's time to move on. "

" and i don't like being around small- minded, rude a$$e$ when I eat, it makes me want to spew. i'd like to surgically remove their voice boxes (and any other means of communication) so we no longer have to hear their hateful (and hurtful) ideas. "

" EARLY BIRD, the fat lady has yet to have sung. This is an issue of civil rights, which is never concluded. "

" I blame Bush and the Iraq war. "

" TK, smokers are fine with the ban everywhere but BARS AND TAVERNS. We understand inside public buildings, medical building and yes....even RESTURANTS! But, since bars and taverns don't allow children in them and 80-85% of the ADULTS to go to them smoke, it pretty much is going to gut that entire industry when people can't smoke there. Urbana has lost close to 75% of their income from this ban that started last July. Smokers are quitting right and left because of all of your belly aching and that $700 million dollars that Illinois rakes in from smokers will disappear. Where's that money going to come from when you have your totally smoke free environment? You really don't think that Springfield is going to give up $700 million do you or your home town and county are going to give up their income from the sales taxes on cigaretts do you? Nope, and it's Y0U that will be picking up the tab. Thanks! "

" I don't usually agree with Penny,I think here she sees where this so called popular Sin Tax,is leading. They are banning coconut oil in movie theater popcorn, Now talking about banning transfat in food,taxing the over weight or obese(I don't know will determine that?) They are banning soft drinks,sweets and candy is school vending machines and so called fat food in cafeteria's. It is illegal to spank your children. You have to have the correct seating in your car when transporting children. If your a grandparent and you get a emergency call to pick the grandchildren at school,you risk going to jail if you don't have the proper seating. They outlawed children walkers. If your traveling and have a sick crying little baby,that only wants to be held,you are a criminal if you do!! 50 years ago they would have tarred and feathered a politician if they had passed such laws. I will be Just how far will you allow the Gov't control your life? "

" To: zo za...Have you ever stopped to think that maybe YOU make people sick? Why if these people bother you so much, don't you stay home and eat. I bet you make FAT PEOPLE very uncomfortable.... "

" I don't like breathing in smoke. I like government regulation on personal choices even less. Those of you who think government regulation of what you can eat won't happen, think again. The market has always self regulated smoking. If an establishment chooses to allow smoking and they lose customers because they don't like the smoke they will ban smoking. "

" While I think the anti-smoking group goes overboard, I for one am glad that it is being banned in restaurants. Having a no-smoking section in a restaurant makes as much sense as having a no-peeing section in a pool. "

" I have no doubt that I do things in public that may offend people. That was the point I was trying to illustrate. It's easy to point out smokers as being disgusting and costly but when you put the same labels on people with other vices it ilicits an emotional response. Everyone does something that has potential to harm themselves, harm others and cost society money. If you point out some of them besides smoking people become angry. "

" It seems the government are taking away our freedoms one at a time each day. They go to Springfield and DC and think they are Gods who can do as they please. And the bad part is we let them. If the people would stand up for their freedoms and speak out about how they feel instead of just writing in these forums etc then maybe we wouldn't lose our freedoms and our basic rights. Where is the ACLU on this issue? Or do they only speak out for sex offenders and such? What about the clubs that have memberships? Don't they have a right to say what goes on in their clubs and what their members can and can't do? Smoking is a choice just the same as eating or anything else you do or don't do. So why is the government now taking away our choices? If I don't like something or want to be around something it is my choice to stay away from such. That's what non-smokers should do. That is everyones choice. But don't punish the smokers for their choice. They just may rise up and take away one of your choices or rights. They may decide that obese people can't appear in public or visit public places or they may decide that something you do offends them or violates the area they frquent or any other such thing. I know this may seem outlandish to some but watch out people.. your life and rights seem to now belong to the government. Think long and hard about all this.The day may come..... "

" zo za .... that is because most of the other vices people have are harming only themselves, not everyone else who is ever around them. "

" zo za ....also, did you know that prednisone makes people fat? Most people with respiratory problems or and COPD are put on prednisone with every episode they encounter which causes their lungs inflammation. So you see, many out here are not fat from eating, on the contrary, they are fat from second hand smoke making them need prednisone in order to keep on breathing at all! "

" CITIZENOFMATTOON, in referencing ZO ZA you say "Have you ever stopped to think that maybe YOU make people sick? Why if these people bother you so much, don't you stay home and eat. I bet you make FAT PEOPLE very uncomfortable.... " Classy. During study hall at the Junior High, did the teachers know you were reading the newspaper website instead of doing homework? "

" LEFTY: When I was in school, smoking didn't offend people yet. Atleast speaking out about, wasn't heard of. As for me being on the website...computers weren't heard either. Further more, when I went to school we went to learn and did so... "

" You know.....I don't like second hand smoke either. however people who smoke have the right to be out in public the same as I do. I don't feel that I have the right to judge or shun a person just because they do something that bothers me. I just try and stay away from it, if possible. "

" citizenofmattoon...thats just it, it's impossible to stay away from it. people with respiratory problems because of others' smoking and burning leaves should not be imprisoned in their own home for the rest of their lives. And even there it's not safe because homes are not air-tight. If anyone here could not take steroids or pain relievers to help with the inflammation and pain, they would be singing a different tune as their whole life would be transformed by the experience. If anyone had a daughter or son who developed serious breathing problems at a young age and had to be confined to home, only then would they begin to understand. It is impossible to just stay clear of it, even in restaurants if the non-smoking section is actually not smoke-filled, people still smoke in the restrooms while they sit on the pot for Pete's sake! "

" To say that those who smoke have every right to do it anywhere they please, is sort of like saying people should have the right to say whatever they please whenever and wherever they are. I don't want to hear profanity every place I go, and I don't want to have to breathe second hand smoke either. I think the issue overlooked here is that those who choose to smoke have made a choice, while the rest of us, while in a public place, have no choice as to whether or not we have to breathe in their stinking fumes. Hats off to all who worked so hard to make this smoking ban a reality. "

" Becky, smokers' habits may fund $700 in tax-generated revenue for IL, but it also costs the state billions of dollars through health-care expenses the state provides to the poor who also are smokers, and the private sector also picks up a portion of the tab through higher insurance costs for everyone, as well as higher charges for medical care at hospitals who must make up revenue lost by treating uninsured smokers. To zoza, who equates regulating smoking to regulating eating/obesity, the huge difference you overlook is the fact that if I'm a smoker who lights up while sitting next to you, your health suffers; if I'm obese and eat donuts, fried chicken, or a bucket of lard while sitting next to you, you don't have to pay for my habit with your health. And as to Penny's comment that non-smokers being bothered by smoke at outdoor events should just get up and move, why should I have to stop watching that ball game, auto race, concert, etc. that I paid good money to attend (for example $90 for my seat at the Indy 500) because someone else is rude enough to smoke there? In America, I thought we had the freedom to exercise our rights, until that exercise infringes on the rights of others. The right to breathe air free of carcinogens and bronchial irritants seems pretty basic to me. If anyone should have to stay home or get up and move, it should be the smoker, who is interfering with the health and well being of others, not the non-smoker, who isn't harming anyone by just sitting there minding their own business. "

" Early bird; I suppose by that rationale, we should start working on banning cursing in bars. After all, someone might be offended. Sounds ridiculous now, but so did the smoking ban 5 years ago. It'll be interesting to see how this societal sissification progresses over the next decade. Whatever happens, the PC crowd certainly won't be content, they'll just move on to the next personal choice that bothers them. "

" The "right to smoke" is just as stupid as the "right to drive drunk". Have a good day! "

" This is just another control that our state government has put on the people of this state. There are a lot of things that our government "dictates" to us that I don't agree with, and quite truthfully think is none of their business. I am a smoker, but the ban doesn't bother me however, if I were a bar patron I would be. What the crap is the idea of banning smoking in bars where they serve alcohol, which is the most abused drug in the US today. Yes, alcohol is considered a drug because of its effects. Total government stupidity! "

" Wow, Late Bird, do we actually have some common ground? "

" Does anyone remember that, several years ago, the anti-smoking group announced a specific number of deaths from second hand smoke. Then, the Radon commercials announced the same number of deaths from radon?? Okay, which is it? Can you tell? You can expect scales to be set up outside restaurants. Anyone over a certain weight cannot enter. I shall NOT vote for any one in the state legislature who voted for the ban... "

" Sorry gramma, but should the rest of us be expected to have to breathe your exhaled smoke? Perhaps you need to consider quitting your disgusting and nasty habit. "

" GRAMMA!!! It's You! I thought you got run over by a reindeer???!!! *HUG!* "

" Drats, now I need to go get back on my my nebulizer again....*singing* Smoke gets in your eyes...oh, I mean... lungs, well actually...both. "

" I know, I know, my bad! "

" Hey, I have a suggestion for HisChild, don't quit your day job. "

" Another thought, gramma's shouldn't be smoking, they should spend their time knitting, baking cookies, talking about their lumbago or something productive. Listening to a granny cigarette cough first thing in the morning is rather disgusting too. So gramma, give your family a break and give the cigs up, OK? "

" *still gasping for breath* Oh yes, granny, PLEASE stop smoking! Doughball- You need a happy hug....here....*Squish!* By the way...that IS my job, getting everyone to stop smoking *LOL!* "

" I didn't know there was such a job, but good luck with that mission. Please do a better job with gramma, OK? "

" I will try, but gramma doesn't remember me! :-( She took off fifty some years ago when I was just a little tyke, and her smoking a cigarette landed me in ER! She said I was a canary. I asked her what that meant, and she said that years back, the miners would bring a canary into the mines with them. When the canary dropped dead, they knew the air was bad, and they had to hightail it on outta there ASAP! She was right about that, but she wouldn't give up those cancer sticks for anyone, not even me. :-( *sad* Anyways, granny says now I remind her of someone but she doesn't know who. Now I need your help Doughball, will you please help me restore the correct oxygen levels to this earth? "

" I'll be the first to admit that it's agrivating to have to breath ciggys while I'm eating but..... How long will it be before the government feels the need to examine each and everyone of our houses? Better not over load that circuit by the Christmas tree or you'll get a ticket! ! ! "

" My Goodness! Look at all of the venom I unleashed. Whatever happened to the tolerance shown in the memos before mine? Assumed everyone had a better attitude than snown by the comments. Hugs and kisses. "

" Oh gramma, lighten up. I just see a few people here having some fun, they are not personally attacking you, but rather having a little fun expressing their opinions thru you in regards to the issue of smoking. No hatred. "

" If you banned smoking, what would all the smokers do during the day - work? It seems like smoking is a great excuse to take a 5 to 15 minute break about every hour. I'm just teasing, nobody can make people work. "

" Now Dohbaugh, I'm a granny smoker, but I don't knit. Knit one, pearl two, I would find BORING! If other granny's like it more power to them. I do bake cookies( and pretty durn well too). I don't have lumbago, just an occasional pain in the a$$ from some people( present company excluded) that drive me nuts! LOL! I'll admit to a knee that likes to shout at me once in awhile, but I shout back! I haven't been able to kick that expensive, not so nice habit(cough, cough) yet. I'll admit I'm gonna miss going to my favorite watering holes on occasion and not being able to light up while enjoying a cold one and listening to the music! The beer bone's connected to the smoke bone ya know! I don't have a problem with public eatery's and such, but I do have a problem with private clubs not being allowed to decide if they want smoking or not. THAT should be left up to their memberships! Bars ought to be allowed to decide also. It's common knowledge that where there's beer, there's smoke! Now that I've gotten off my smoke, oops, soap box do your worst! LOL! Maybe this will be the year I finally give them(smokes) up. We'll see. I still won't tell my friends they can't smoke in my house IF I do give them up. Not gonna be one of those "I'm so much better than you because I quit types." Now, you quit picking on smokin granny's! LOL! "

" Billie, I can't speak for all non-smokers, but personally, I don't feel superiority to anyone just because I don't smoke; Lord knows I have my own share of vices, most notably a big sweet tooth, and in my younger days a tendency to drive with a lead foot. Many people I love dearly are smokers, too. But now that I've gotten a little older and wiser, I realize I'm not being holier than thou to say to people, "Please don't smoke in my house," the same way I wouldn't want them playing with loaded guns in my house. It really is a serious health issue for so many folks, on so many levels, not just the biggies like cancer, heart disease or emphysema, but even lesser health issues. When I realized I had to take my little girl to the doctor for an ear infection within a couple of days of grandpa visiting and chain smoking around her, I realized enough was enough. I had chronic ear infections and bronchial infections as a child, too, largely traceable to Dad and Mom and their 2-pack a day habits. They were incredible parents in every other way, but I wish they hadn't smoked around me. Dad's a great, loving grandfather, too, but I finally decided not to compromise another generation's health to smoking. (I lost Mom to cancer when I was just 20 -- losing her 3 decades too soon.) I do this NOT because I am better than he is -- he's a better person than almost everyone I know, myself included -- but because health is too precious a commodity to risk. Smoking is one of the few behaviors that go beyond an individual's choice -- when that individual chooses to smoke, everyone else around him or her gets taken along for the ride, willingly or not. "

" tammer65========So sorry you lost your mom at such a young age. What you say rings true in our family too. We've always had to say no smoking in our vehicles or home. As much as we love our friends and relatives, it's just not worth the chronic health conditions caused by smoking or by breathing second hand smoke. You are very wise.========== "

" tammer, I would never think of smoking in someone's home that didn't want it. A good clue as to whether or not you can smoke is the absence or availability of ashtrays. Even then if you're not sure, ask! You, and anyone else who don't want smoking in their homes have every right to say so. I don't have a problem with that at all. I try to be considerate of non-smokers. I just get very tired of some who act holier than thou and decide that I'm a dirty pig because I smoke. There have been several on the various "smoking" threads who have said just that. In my last post I was referring to myself in that I would not be one of those types if I ever am able to quit. I would not tell my friends who smoke they were no longer welcome to smoke in my home. "

" Wow Early Bird, we do actually have some common ground! :) http://www.yahoo.com/s/763051 "

" Billie, our mom in law was just like you. She did quit because of developing emphysema, but still let all her friends smoke in her home, and even though her husband had cancer. He was having treatments that weren't working, she had a stroke and lost the use of half of her body. When the doctor ran some tests, he thought that both of them were smoking, her husband never did smoke, but said that their friends smoke in their home. The doc had a fit, and told them both to let all their friends know that there is no longer smoking allowed in their home as it is literally killing both husband and wife. Their doc gave them No Smoking signs to put on the doors. He said, you should never put other people's habits above your own health. "

" Late Bird, If it ever comes to a situation like you described, I'm sure I'll adjust my habits or at least give it a try. I'm not totally inflexible. "

" Yeah, I know, people become more flexible as they realize they are dying. "

" Wow! It's really nice ya'll are worried about me. Actually, I'm in pretty good shape health wise. Thanks for your concern, really. I've tried to quit those darned things, but no success. It's the only addiction I've ever had and it's a toughie! "

" You're certainly a good sport Billie, if ever I thought I deserved to be cussed out, it was after my last remark. I know it is a toughie, and I wish you the best. I just wish sometimes that we could get people to stop before they have a stroke or heart attack is all. God bless you. "

" Late Bird, No offense taken. God's Blessings back at cha! "

" It is a little extreme to say that smokers will not go to these establishments that will not allow smoking anymore. If it is a state wide ban, what are smokers going to do, not go out to eat or go to the bars or anyplace they used to frequent. It's not like they can go to the next town and go someplace that doesn't have a smoking ban. I do not think that places will be affected by this ban. I am a not a smoker, and I feel that this ban is the best thing that has ever happened. Smokers choose to smoke. Non smokers can not choose to inhale the second hand smoke from these people. I think that children and workers will also benefit from this ban. So, stop complaining smokers, either stop or go outside!! You don't hear the non smokers crying all the time about having to break this crap! "

" Ya know people...I have this to say... I dont smoke..never have ..never will... I dont mind going to the local establishments... I DO however...hate coming home smelling like an ashtray... I think that this smoking ban is a good idea..., I also know that I am going to get barked at for saying this... You all may as well stop whining and crying about the smoking ban on January 1st..yes business owners should be allowed to make their own decisions about smoking or non smoking in their establishments , I agree with that... At the same time, they may lose some business revenue from this, and again they may not lose hardly at all... Theres no use to sit and whine and cry about it...I mean...unless youre going to become a politician overnite... then I guess everyone has to deal with it.... "

" Maybe we can use FutureGen to pump all the second-hand smoke deep below the earth's surface as well. That way, all the smokers could still enjoy a few hours of "breaks" everyday and not affect the pink-lunged inhabitants of the buildings. "

" I think that since Texas didn't get Future Gen, we should send all the poisonous gases to them to store, they are known for being BIG on everything and they have a lot more ground to store things in. We like to share. "

" Next will be drinking at a bar..or anywhere other than your home. Can't do it, somehow or someway a study says so. If you don't like it, get out. What is next? "

" I have smoked most of my life. I don't smoke in peoples homes that do not smoke. I even smoke outside my own home due to resperatory problems that my wife has. I think that it should be the choice of the buisness owner if they allow smoking or not. I also operate a part time buisness from my garage. Guess what as of January 1 that building is no longer a public place. How long will it be before the government decides that we are using too much fuel so we can't drive on Thursdays, or they decide that we are using too much water so we can't take a shower on Mondays, or that since everyone has to use toliet paper and they lost income from smoking they will just put a $1.35 tax per roll on it. Just remember folks.... We're the government and we're here to help. "

" Hey everyone, lets all get real drunk and go drive around...but make sure you are the only one in the vehicle so if you wreck you will be the only one hurt! It won't be anyone else's business, if they don't like that we are driving drunk they should just stay off the sidewalks! If you get a ticket for DUI complain at court how this mean, overpowering government does not have the right to tell us what to do, after all WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT. What or who could it hurt? "

" If you smoke and XYZ restaurant doesn't allow smoking and you don't like it - don't go there. If you don't smoke and XYZ restaruant permits smoking and you don't like it - don't go there. That should be the end of it. Nobody has a right to dine at any resturant they choose and make their own rules about it. ########## But here's why I'm so bothered by the whole thing: I bought a bar in 1982 and since then I have been working like a dog to support my family while paying off my loan on the building and contents. I even raised my family in an apartment directly above the bar so I could be close and so I could be paying on a place to live as well as paying for and owning my own busines. I now own the bar, building, parking lot and contents lock, stock and barrel. It's mine! ########## NOW the government comes in and tells me that in the building that I own outright which houses the business I own outright and have worked 25 years to pay off - that I cannot allow smoking in my business or they'll close me down. And it's all because some people actually believe they have a right to come into my bar and eat and drink here. ########## They DON'T have a right to come in here. They are very welcome to come in here as long as they abide by the rules but "have a right"? This is MY freaking bar and YOU have a right? ROAD APPLES!!!!!That's what really disturbs me about the whole thing. Thanks for reading. M@H "

" If business owners should be allowed to decide everything about their business, like whether smoking should be allowed, then I guess they should still be allowed to not be handicap accessible and not provide service to black people! The unfortunate truth is that it takes government stepping in on issues like these for the greater good of society. The next step should be a federal law to bring the whole country in line with something similar to the IL, NY, or CA laws. If Ireland can do it, so can we! "

" Mattooner...so you have never had any kind of health inspection or department come in and require you follow certain rules in the last 25 years for public safety? "

" First of all, I don’t recall stating that I think business owners should be allowed to decide everything about their business. I *do* recall stating that I think business owners should be allowed to decide who comes in to their business and who does not and under what conditions and circumstances. I know that this may cost me some money from the non-smokers who do not want to be in the same building where smoking is going on and they’ll stay away from my place, but I get that and I'm okay with it. I’m willing to let the free market and choice decide the fate of my business. (oh . . . . choice . . . . the right to choose . . . that’s a good one. I never even thought of the “right to choose” as being part of the issue here. That certainly gives me one more point on which to hammer.) ########## And I have certainly had several state, county and municipal health departments, liquor boards, etc. come into my business and inspect. That’s because I *want* to stay in business so I must comply with these regulations just as I must comply with the smoking regulations. Nobody can tell from walking into my business whether or not I have a clean establishment that meets requirements, that I’m licensed to serve alcoholic beverages legally or anything else – unless I’m required to post my various licenses and inspection reports on the door – which at this time, I am not. Customers and potential customers have to rely on the various government agencies to control that. And we all know how thorough and efficient all government agencies are. If you don’t think my bar is clean enough for you – don’t come into my bar. If you don’t think I have a valid liquor license, don’t try to purchase liquor in here. If I put a notice on my door that I permit smoking in my building and you don’t want to be around smoke – just like the health and liquor laws – don’t come in here. Jeez . . . I’d think “right to choose” would be right down the alley of those who are behind a restrictive law such as the smoking ban in bars. ########## But compliance with the law is not the point here. I’m complying with the law. I have to comply to stay in business. The point here is that there should not be a law that dictates whether or not anyone can smoke in my private property. My bar is *not* public property. It is private property. I used to allow people in my bar based on *my* terms but now I have one less say about what *my* terms *are*! It’s a private property issue and if government can decide what behavior is acceptable or unacceptable in *my* private property, they can decide the acceptability of behavior in *your* private property, too. Like I stated earlier, I’ll let the free market decide whether or not I stay in business if smoking is permitted in my bar. My demographic research says I’ll do just fine. ########## One last opinion that I believe is related – if the state really wanted people to stop smoking, they would ban the purchase and sale of tobacco within their state lines. The state can tell me what to do on *my* property, so they can easily tell people what to do on *theirs* (“their” property being within the state lines). They don’t *want* to stop smoking nor do they want to stop the purchase and sale of tobacco. There’s way too much money in taxes and revenue involved. They don’t want smoking to go away, the want all the *complaints about* smoking to go away. Passing a law has made those complaints go away without getting rid of smoking and the revenue it generates. Congratulations to those who insisted on coming in to my establishment and telling me what to do. They figured out how the system works and worked it – I gotta give them credit there. Government can’t come into your private property and regulate what you do, but they can come into *mine* and tell *me* what to do. From a certain political viewpoint, this is not only perfectly okay, it’s preferable . . . until one of *their* private property rights gets trampled. Then let’s see what their stance is then. You read it here first . . . such a day is coming! M@H "

" Wow, how much longer before Duke accuses Mattooner of being me too? "

" Well, Dohbaugh, I never thought anyone could ever get the two of us confused but I see in *this* forum just about *anything* is possible. ########## If I *do* get accused of being you, should I take it as a compliment? "

" The difference between my private property and your bar as private property is that the public is allowed and encouraged to come into your place, correct? My private property is simply my home, it is not a place where the general public is invited or simply encouraged to come. So there is a difference. My earlier post was not meant to say that you had never had a health inspection or had any troubles in that area, it was simply to point out that government entities have entered your establishment with regulations in the past that you have followed. Your previous post stated that now after 25 years the government is suddenly telling you what you can or can't do with your "private property" that the public is encouraged to attend....my earlier post was to point out that the government has been regulating your business for years and that regulations for the greater good of the public are not new. If you could see my aunt that is bedridden and about to die due to lung cancer and most importantly see the pain/confusion on the face of the two small children that call her MOMMY and can no longer live with her you would see my point. If you have been smart enough to maintain any kind of a business for 25 years, you must have some common sense and be able to understand the pain of the kids being left behind due to the stupid tobacco you argue for...good luck in life! I hope you or anyone else do not have to die a slow, painful death because of your stupidity in using tobacco and cause undue to pain to little kids or loved ones due to something that is COMPLETELY AVOIDABLE. "

" Let me put it this way, Mattooner, my number of posting pals on this site is driving one poster absolutely berserk, I have many, and he has none, unless you count the time he posts under pseudo names to make it appear he has some support, so yes, I would take it as a compliment. Just look at the reaction I get to anything I post, but in all fairness, it's mostly from the same person. Every time you see a post from me, you will see my groupie go into action. He sort of has an obsession for me, and can't seem to resist making comments about me, under a different name each time of course. Stick around and you'll get the idea. I never had a groupie before, and I'm enjoying it, I even get free palm reading/psychoanalytical readings from him. Others have asked for a reading, but so far he is only doing his reading for me. I just hope my herd doesn't get jealous. Because he posts under so many names, I haven't decided for sure what to call him yet. I always liked the name Fred, so I might go with that. In answer to your question about whether you will be accused of being me, well, all I can say is that everyone else on here, except for the right wingers, but there are only a few of them, have been accused so you probably will be too. You could be called worse things, you know. "

" You're wasting your time trying to argue with the smoking crowd, Why Not. They will never get it. Just watch the number of people who drive around town with their windows up and having little kids in the car, as an example. It's hard to believe that a grown person could be so callous and cruel, isn't it? Not all smokers are inconsiderate, but a heck of a lot of them are. This argument will be moot in a few days anyway. "

" To Why Not: Let me say how truly sorry I am that your aunt is going through what it is she is experiencing. I could not be more sincere when I say I am saddened to hear that and I have honest and heartfelt sympathy for the children who are going through the pain of their mother’s deterioration. I won’t pretend to infer that the discussion we’re having about this topic is anywhere near as important as the situation your aunt and her children are experiencing and as a result, I will not continue this post with any kind of response. I will save it for another. "

" Why Not, I must agree with you that the government has been entering my establishment off and on for the entire 25 years I’ve owned the place and I’ve had to comply with their guidelines. But the government only told me the conditions under which I *could* serve food and under what conditions I was permitted to serve drinks – not that I could not do either or was required to do both. They’ve never told me I could not serve beef or pork or chicken or beer or wine or whiskey – they’ve just given me the conditions under which I *could*. ########## Now they’re telling me what I can and cannot do by telling me I cannot permit smoking in my private bar. It is true that the public is allowed and encouraged to come into my place and part with their hard-earned money but the key words here are “allowed” and “encouraged”, not “permitted” and “have a right to”. ########## I have addressed the circumstances you describe regarding the health problems smoking can cause so I won’t do that again here. ########## I think I *do* have some common sense and thank you for giving me credit for that – but also understand that I am *not* arguing *for* tobacco. I’m also not arguing *against* tobacco. That is a choice you and everyone else makes based on understanding the possible consequences of your decision to smoke if that’s the way you’ve chosen. ########## I *am*, however arguing *for* private property rights. I *am* arguing that the state has every right to protect the citizenry from harm by regulating under what conditions I can serve, and well they should. But I am *also* arguing that this is different. This isn’t regulating . . . this is forbidding. ########## Once again, I assert: If they can tell me what I can and cannot do in this situation, they can also tell me (and you) what we can and cannot do in other situations. Not trying to spawn fear here – just trying to spawn some thought. Thanks for reading. M@H "

" well just the first in many more rights of freedom that are to be taken away fromm all of us.Next we will all have to where the same kind of cloths with numbers on them and have a implant put in us sothe goverment cant track our every move.next will be to outlaw drinking cause it kills too. "

" Can't you just see something like that happening down the road somewhere? People being required to have computer chips implanted in themselves, just like dogs at the pound are required to do now. Talk about big brother watching over you - geesh! Oh, the agony of it all. "

" Hey Rotty, if the chips become law, would the poster of many names (Psycho-man) have to have a chip for each of his posting names? That could get quite confusing. "

" LOL @ Dohbaugh. Well, if he, she, or it, does, it'll probably make more for a dog-eat-dog world around here - that could be quite entertaining for the rest of us sane folks. LOL "

" Still smokin, Dohbaugh! Still trying my best to be considerate of those who don't. I am gonna miss lighting up at my favorite watering holes while enoying a cold one when I go out to listen to my favorite bands though. I still think at least private clubs ought to be able to bring it before their memberships for a vote as to allow smoking or not. BUT, you know what "they" say about opinions! ;-) "

" hmmmm.... I see several of the most commented on articles, that still should be in the list, have suddenly disappeared to the archive section. Interesting. (insert shoddy frustrated look here) "

" billie...im glad to hear youre trying to be considerate, as many smokers are the exact opposite. However, I can say I will enjoy being able to go out to listen to a band for the first time in many years. Having asthma, I have missed out on many things other college students and citizens take for granted. I cant just go sit in a bar or go to a club because the smoke could put me in the hospital. This is what most smokers either don't realize or care about (not saying you). All of the argument is about the "right to smoke", which there is no such right. This is and always has been a health issue. I could care less if someone smokes as it's your body, health and well being you are affecting but when you do it in my presence, your choice is extremely harmful to many like myself. Thats why we have this new law, not for comfort and convenience but for the health and well being of those who choose not to smoke. "

" From what I hear, many of the establishments that are worried about not having smoking in their place of business have found a way around it. The way I understand it, if an establishment requires a ticket to get in for what may be considered a "private party", the business can get away with allowing smoking if they so wish. I hear many establishments are leaning toward this idea. I don't know all the details really, I just know it's been brought about as an option for local businesses. "