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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

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Friday, August 10, 2007 1:03 AM CDT
Letter: Censors, not books, should be feared

By SUSAN HUMPHREYS, Oakland

The Rev. Cassady thinks that the Harry Potter books are harming our children. What other books does she think should be banned? The Chronicles of Narnia, The Lord of the Rings, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, Cinderella, the stories about King Arthur, all of Greek Mythology and yes even the Bible, they are all full of magic. It is hypocritical to ban one without banning them all. Books aren’t to be feared but people who ban books are.

A few weeks ago we were discussing whether this country is a Christian Nation or not and I didn’t get the opportunity to respond to the last writers. I’d like to take that opportunity now.

The Declaration of Independence refers to “Nature’s God,” “Creator,” “Supreme Judge of the World,” and “Divine Providence.” Those are generic terms; they refer to the God of the people of all faiths, Hindus, Jews, American Indians etc. For A Christian to claim that those words refer to the Christian God, is the height of arrogance.

As to George Washington, after he was scolded several times for arguing with the minister in his church he quit going to church altogether. Many people really weren’t (and today aren’t) believers, but were afraid not to believe. Don’t confuse fear and ignorance with piety.

As to the Ten Commandments, those are Judaic not Christian. As I mentioned in an earlier letter Christians have usurped many ideas from other religious groups.

People of integrity (people like me), must stand up, speak up, and insist that the rights of people of all faiths and of no faith, be honored and respected. This Nation of ours, our basic values and moral concepts, and God belong to all people not just Christians.

Religious intolerance, fueled by fear and ignorance of all of those that are different from you, is tearing this world apart. The War on Terror will only be won when every Minister and Mullah, Priest and Rabbi, stop preaching fear and hate and start to teach a gospel based on respect and acceptance of differences, whatever those differences might be (religious, sexual, ethnic, racial). That is the gospel taught by Buddha, Krishna, Lao Tzu, Black Elk and Jesus and Mohammed. I know, I have read their books! Have you

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TommyTutone wrote on Aug 10, 2007 3:30 AM:

" amen "

Early Bird wrote on Aug 10, 2007 4:56 AM:

" As usual, an excellent letter, Susan. But trying to make sense of anything, when dealing with the book banners, is sort of like spitting in the wind at times. You have asked a very good question, which will not be answered, and your letter will only result in a barrage of hateful and intolerant responses from the so called "Christians". "

Box Thirteen wrote on Aug 10, 2007 7:46 AM:

" Well said. Good to see civilized, intelligent remarks for once, instead of religious fanaticism. "

Gail wrote on Aug 10, 2007 8:07 AM:

" Ms. Humphreys, what are YOU afraid of? Maybe you should read Rev. Cassady's letter again; nowhere in it did she state that the HP books should be banned. Nor did the folks who posted supporting her position advocate banning HP. They expressed their concerns, some of them opined that no Christian person should read HP--but that's not book banning. So why the near-hysterical tone? How can I take the rest of what you say seriously? In your letter, you assert that you are a person of integrity. If you want your readers to believe this, it might be helpful to stick with the facts and ditch a little of the rhetoric. "

Just a Soldier wrote on Aug 10, 2007 8:50 AM:

" Thanks, Gail. I was wondering if someone was going to attack this well written letter. We can't have people coming on here and making points in sould, logical ways. It is better to write letters recommending that children read stories about "Moses in Pharaoh’s court, [throwing] down his rod or staff, and it [becoming] a snake and [swallowing] up the two sorcerers’ snakes" (Letter from Rev. Cassaday). I mean, I can totally see how someone throwing down a stick and having it turn into a snake is less like witchcraft than a teenage boy riding a broom. "

Gail wrote on Aug 10, 2007 9:04 AM:

" Ms. Humphreys, Early Bird, and all of those who have latched onto this "book-banning" idea: Click on and re-read the Harry Potter posts. Looking through them, I found 69 total posts. Of those, only 14 were against HP. Of those 14, NONE advocated banning the HP books. Early Bird, the "hateful and intolerant" responses you mention are in the pro-HP posts. Words like "Wacko Christian idiot"; "Religious zealots"; "illiterate fools"; "fundamentalist religious fanatics", and that's just the beginning. If anyone is exhibiting hate and intolerance, it's the pro-HP crowd. Ironically, some of them expressed a desire to ban Christian opinions from this site. Why are some people so frightened (and intolerant) when Christians express their opinions? "

Gail wrote on Aug 10, 2007 10:15 AM:

" Soldier, Ms. Humphreys can write anything she wishes; I don't question her right to respond to Rev. Cassady's letter. This is the United States, after all; we are all free to express our opinions. What I have a problem with is her saying that Rev. Cassady wants Harry Potter banned, because Rev. Cassady never said that. This is an assumption on Ms. Humphrey's part and an error that seriously detracts from anything else she might have to say, no matter how well-written her letter might be. "

Just a Soldier wrote on Aug 10, 2007 10:48 AM:

" You are absolutely correct that the Rev. didn't say she wanted to ban books, and in that sense her letter is a little off of the mark, BUT banning books usually doesn't come that far behind public outrage over the contents of a book, which is exactly what Rev. Cassaday's letter illicited. "

Dohbaugh wrote on Aug 10, 2007 1:29 PM:

" Look here, Gail. Did you ever stop to think that the book banning comment might also be referring to other posts that have been going on for well over a year now? Being as how you seem to like to go to a lot of work to prove your point, why don't you do a little little research in the archives on similar subjects. You might just somehow be able to get the point I was making, I doubt it, but perhaps you should try. PS, you can just feel the Christian love pouring out of a lot of the posts from the bible thumpers. "

Gail wrote on Aug 10, 2007 2:44 PM:

" Dohbaugh, your last sentence is unfortunately true; hopefully, people who post in Christ's name will take another look at what they're writing before they hit that Post Comment button. The comments about book banning were started by Ms. Humphreys, who referenced only Rev. Cassady. No one else mentioned any HP posts prior to those of the past few days. It's interesting that you need to bring up the archives to prove YOUR point. I certainly don't have time to research any archives, but if you do, feel free to show me a post from someone who wants to ban Harry Potter. I'll be more than happy to read it. "

Susan wrote on Aug 10, 2007 4:52 PM:

" The writers are side stepping the main points of my letter which is that it is hypocritical to ban, or condemn, or discourage someone from reading the Harry Potter books due to their use of magic and not condemn,ban,discourage the reading of all the others including the Bible.Quit arguing about semantics and get down to the meat of the issue. AND keep it nice. Those who resort to name calling do so because they have run out of constructive points to make. "

Dohbaugh wrote on Aug 10, 2007 5:50 PM:

" My My, Gail. Thank you for proving my point. You must feel really good about that last post, huh? Your smug and complacent remarks are just what I was talking about. Just another comment from a so called Christian. Thanks for making my day, with your love filled message. Jesus would be so proud of you, now wouldn't he? By the way, I really didn't expect you to research the archieves, because you are probably afraid of what you might find from you fellow hate spewers who hide behind religion. Of course you get hate from all sides, but in the past on these sites, I have noticed a abnormal amount of it from those who claim to be religious. Sorry you don't like that, but it's a fact whether you like it or not. "

Gail wrote on Aug 10, 2007 10:18 PM:

" Susan, it wasn't a matter of semantics, but a matter of accuracy; just leave that word "ban" out, since no one used or even implied it, as far as I could see. Being a little anal-retentive, this type of thing bogs me down. Anyway, I agree completely with your point that the "rights of people of all faiths and of no faith, be honored and respected." Absolutely! Not everyone has to think as I do for me to respect them. But, in your mind, does "all faiths" include the Christian faith? If so, please show respect for us by not attributing words to us that we did not use. DOHBAUGH: You're the one who brought up the archives; if there's something out there posted by an intolerant Christian who wants to ban HP, by all means show me. I'll be sure to read it. And to everyone, have a nice evening and Good Night. "

Anya wrote on Aug 11, 2007 9:58 AM:

" Excellent letter, Susan Humphreys. Well written, well thought out, and excellent points. "

Anya wrote on Aug 11, 2007 10:26 AM:

" Susan, I really have to tell you this. You can't regulate the conversation. Online conversations are just like verbal face-to-face conversations: They will ramble and wander back and forth to, from, and around the topic of the letter to everything in between. I understand your attempt, but you might as well just give it up. You'll just aggravate yourself and everyone else. I don't know about you, but I have enough to be aggravated about without adding an online thread to my list of stressors. :-) "

Box Thirteen wrote on Aug 11, 2007 11:36 AM:

" Good points, Anya. "

Kyle wrote on Aug 11, 2007 1:52 PM:

" Not that I agree for a second with the goobs, but the attempt to paint them as hypocritical fails. The Bible uniformly portrays magic in a negative light. They have a problem with books that portray it in a positive light. And yes, many of them do stop their kids from reading or watching the books and shows that were listed in the letter. I grew up in such a household, and I wasn't allowed to watch Smurfs because of magical themes. They may be wrong, but they are not uniformly hypocritical. "

The Question wrote on Aug 11, 2007 2:56 PM:

" "The man who says that a book has power to pollute his soul ranks his soul below a book." — Robert Buchanan, 1889 "

Gail wrote on Aug 11, 2007 3:55 PM:

" Okay, Susan . . . the word "condemn" will work. No one who is against HP has responded to you, which is too bad. I will try to answer your question. There are different reasons why some Christians can condemn magic and sorcery in HP but not in the Bible, but the main one is probably because they see the Bible as God's Word and take it very literally. If the Bible speaks out against magic and sorcery, that's it--case closed. To them, reading HP would be a direct violation of God's will. They likely believe that disobedience of God's will can lead to eternal damnation. To you (and many), this makes no sense, it's hypocritical, it's extremist, etc. But to some, this issue is a matter of life and death. My question is, do you want to dialog with people and try to reach a common understanding? People may meet and walk away in disagreement, but maybe there can be understanding of one another's position. But that understanding can be reached only if respect is shown--by all parties. And that brings me back to my original point, that rhetoric and attributing attitudes to others does not usually lead to understanding, only to a greater divide. "

Dohbaugh wrote on Aug 11, 2007 4:30 PM:

" Gail, Gail, Gail, perhaps you need to read slower. I was referring to the hatefulness of the so called Christians, that has been going on here for months now. I once had a so-called Christian who was going around saying some hateful lies about me. When confronted by this, her answer was that I needed to go to church more often. As she lived out of town, she really had no idea as to how often I went to church. This caused me and my family a great deal of stress, so I turned to my pastor for advice, and I never will forget what he had to say, and this was it: Lord save us from the Christians. That thought comes to mind every time I start reading some holier than thou so-called Christian spouting off on here about how much better they are than others. Note, I did not put you in that category, Gail, but there certainly have been many others who I would call that, who have been posting on any subject that arrives that is even slightly connected to any religious issue. Hate is spewed from both sides. I understand it coming from those who have no religious convictions, but it really bothers me to see it come from those who claim to have religious convictions. They should know better. That is the only point I'm trying to make. If you can't see it, you must be, in my mind at least, a very naive person. "

The Truth wrote on Aug 11, 2007 7:49 PM:

" The Bible does not teach that all roads lead to the same place through different religions. Ephesians 4:5: ONE LORD, ONE FAITH, ONE BAPTISM. Was Jesus religiously intolerant because he taught one faith? True Christians do not read the HP crap. Period. They don't have to be banned. Just avoid them if you don't like them. "

Gail wrote on Aug 11, 2007 10:23 PM:

" Dohbaugh, trust me--I feel your pain. I've had fellow church members, those who called themselves friends, spread half-truths and innuendo about me among themselves. I felt uncomfortable--unsafe, somehow; I left that church. Well, enough drama, but I am no fan of organized religion. But I've also known Christians who have put their beliefs into actions, I have friends like that, too. One quote I read years ago went something like God's greatest embarassment is the Church; maybe that's true. It bothers me to see hate (and hypocrisy) coming from those who claim to have religious convictions, but I honestly think this hatred comes from fear. Fear of what, I don't know. Intolerance may be born of fear, a fear of differences that is hardwired into the human brain.... "

Rotty wrote on Aug 11, 2007 10:41 PM:

" Until I find someone like John Moschitta as a preacher, I think I'll just take care of Sunday's business in my own way & time. "

Box Thirteen wrote on Aug 12, 2007 3:36 AM:

" " The Bible does not teach that all roads lead to the same place through different religions." ••• Who cares what the Bible supposedly "teaches?" It seems to escape you religious fanatics' notice that people of other religions DON'T BELIEVE in your Bible. "

Gail wrote on Aug 12, 2007 8:31 AM:

" Rotty, who is John Moschitta? "

Anya wrote on Aug 12, 2007 9:37 AM:

" Box Thirteen: That's right. Just like the Christians don't believe in the Koran, a witch's Book of Shadows, Bhuddist texts, etc. It is interesting that the Bible is used as the one definitive text to prove that everything else is wrong, but those same people would require several sources as proof for anything else. "

The Question wrote on Aug 12, 2007 11:13 AM:

" Religion is fundamentally opposed to everything I hold in veneration -- courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and, above all, love of the truth. -- H. L. Mencken "

Doh wrote on Aug 12, 2007 3:30 PM:

" No matter how heated and sometimes personal the political debates can get, I never cease to be amazed at how that animosity is quickly surpassed on the religious threads. It’s not enough for some people to have their own set of religious beliefs and let the rest of the world choose their own form of worship. For some, they absolutely must proclaim to the world that there is only one true way; their way. The most powerful form of testimony in the world is a person who quietly lives their faith on a daily basis, as best as they can, while they leave the judgment of souls up to God. "

Dohbaugh wrote on Aug 12, 2007 4:05 PM:

" Thank you, Doh. You have managed to say in a short post everything I have been saying and thinking for years. You stated several weeks ago, right before our truce, that we probably had a lot of things in common, well, this certainly is one of them. Excellent post! "

Gail wrote on Aug 12, 2007 4:15 PM:

" Question, I enjoy reading your quotes, but I'm not sure where Mencken was coming from. I think of Christians who made a differene in the world, such as Florence Nightingale, William Wilberforce, Dorothea Dix, Martin Luther King, Jr., Mother Teresa, just to name a few. These people exemplified courage, clear thinking, honesty, fairness, and love of the truth. "

Gail wrote on Aug 12, 2007 4:39 PM:

" Susan, I agree with your point that the United States is not a Christian nation. However, you can't look back at the Declaration of Independence through 21st-century eyes. When Jefferson wrote that all men were created equal, that's exactly what he meant--all MEN. Plus, he meant white men who owned property. Jefferson's Creator is not the pluralistic Deity you seem to be envisioning. Rather, he believed in "polygenesis", that different races were created at different times; of course, the European White was superior. Jefferson used this theory to justify slavery. As for women, he never intended for them to have rights equal to men. Susan, though I agree we all need respect for each other and acceptance of differences, the truth is that the ideas you're expressing would be rather alien to the founders of this country. They were people of their time, and their God was related much more closely to the current Christian's perception of God than to your "God of the people of all faiths." "

Gail wrote on Aug 12, 2007 4:43 PM:

" What am I reading--Doh and Dohbaugh are in agreement? I never thought I'd see the day. . . . "

The Question wrote on Aug 12, 2007 4:53 PM:

" Gail, I'd say Mencken meant that dogma is the enemy of truth, and it always is. "

Rotty wrote on Aug 12, 2007 6:35 PM:

" Gail: John Moschitta is the speed-talker made famous by his FedEx commercial on tv - along with countless other commercials. http://tinyurl.com/y66okf ~ Henceforth, we would have it "made in the shade" if we could find "a preacher like that". LOL "

Dohbaugh wrote on Aug 12, 2007 7:49 PM:

" Now come on Gail, Doh and I don't always disagree. Since we buried the hatchet several weeks ago we have found our self in agreement several times. Certainly not all the time, but let me assure you this was not the first time. Now start paying better attention, and who knows, I might even agree with you sometime. "

Gail wrote on Aug 12, 2007 8:25 PM:

" Dohbaugh, give me a break! I haven't had time yet to read all the threads on here. My family seems to think I have more important things to do to occupy my time. . . . :-) "

Gail wrote on Aug 12, 2007 8:56 PM:

" Rotty, who knows--maybe some preachers will watch the commercial and learn his techniques. . . . "

Doh wrote on Aug 12, 2007 11:23 PM:

" Thanks Dohbaugh. And yes Gail, it's true, Dohbaugh and I have buried the hatchet and have had several agreements. Now if only the religions around world would take our lead, who knows how peaceful things could be. "

Anya wrote on Aug 13, 2007 8:36 AM:

" Yup, Doh and Dohbaugh are real men. They were both able to admit any mistakes made or obnoxiousness engaged in, and then took that several steps further and apologized. Furthermore, they met in the middle and even admitted a bit of mutual respect for each other. Pretty impressive, don't you think, Gail? And yes, Doh, if the religions in the world could take that lead, things would be much better. "

Gail wrote on Aug 13, 2007 12:37 PM:

" Hey, Anya, I'm totally impressed. All this between Doh and Dohbaugh must have happened when I wasn't paying attention (as Dohbaugh suggested), maybe it was on that thread with 300 or so posts. Seriously, though, it seems that most extremists of any faith are those people who take all of their sacred writings literally. I'm thinking mainly of the Bible's Old Testament, and some passages I've read from the Koran. Seems like people forget these writings represent a much more primitive time in the history of humanity. Or, in some cases, what these writings were originally meant to communicate. Yet, I know plenty of Christian literalists who are not intolerant or militant. Maybe it's the combination of literalism and certain personalities that leads to intolerance. Then, add the corrupting influence of power. . . . Anyway, too often peace goes flying out the window. "

Dohbaugh wrote on Aug 13, 2007 7:13 PM:

" Oh Anya, you're making me blush. Now get back over on that asphalt site and give me some kubos for my wonderful idea. I'll be watching for you..... "

Anya wrote on Aug 13, 2007 8:22 PM:

" Gail - Yes, Doh and Dohbaugh really went at it for awhile, and it WAS in that thread that had around 300 posts. It was crazy. I think you're right when you say that certain personality types combined with the hype and literalism bring about the religious mania. You also make a very good point about the alliterations in the ancient texts. Their understanding of the world was very different than our own, so things had to be written differently. People forget that, I think. "

Cognitus wrote on Aug 14, 2007 9:47 PM:

" Before I read -- or ignore -- letters to the editor, I first look at the bottom to see the source. When I find Susan's name, I know I will read a letter that is logical, coherent and LITERATE -- which is a characteristic missing from a lot of letters (as well as many of the comments on this screen). [Examples: just this evening one person wrote "bough" when he/she? obviously meant "bow"; another wrote "sighted" when he/she? obviously meant "cited"........ No I do not count obvious "typos"; we are all sometimes embarrassed when we look back at something we have written and find an obvious typo which we should have found before hitting the POST button.] "