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St. Louis Post-Dispatch

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Friday, May 25, 2007 12:28 AM CDT
Letter: Congress 'should stop this illegal madness'

By GREGORY JENNINGS, Mattoon

Congress authorized the War Powers Act, which allowed the invasion of Iraq. Now they can end the war by de-authorizing it. After you get the illegal war stopped, clean out the White House of all the liars and perpetrators of this war crime, impeach them, try them, and punish them for destroying our great nation, our way of life, and creating the extra debt for our kids to pay on for years, just so them and their buddies can kill whoever they want so they can steal everything from everybody.

And, because of this, we are more hated today than ever in the past. It is Congress’s job to stop this illegal madness. If you don’t, the job passes to we the people next. Just do your job and save our nation.

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Duh wrote on May 25, 2007 5:46 AM:

" It was obvious to me and to many others that the invasion and occupation of a nation that had not attacked or threatened the U.S. would lead to precisely this disaster, but you right-wingers weren't listening, and now you've created the very quagmire we warned you about. Remember how you howled when we used the word "quagmire," how you said your great Republican genius "Rummy" would solve everything in Iraq, how Bush would be known as one of the great presidents in history? Tell us all that again, please. I'd enjoy a good, bitter laugh at your expense. "

Facts wrote on May 25, 2007 9:58 AM:

" Congress authorized the War Powers Act, which allowed the invasion of Iraq. After you get the illegal war stopped, This gets the BRAYING JACKASS AWARD ! "

Why O Why wrote on May 25, 2007 11:12 AM:

" Why do the lefties continue to slam the righties about going to war, when in fact, it was a conglomeration of repubs and dems that voted for it and put us there? What's good for the goose is good for the gander, right? "

fchipper wrote on May 25, 2007 11:45 AM:

" The war was authorized because the current administration had proof that #1 Saddam was a major player in the planning and execution of 911. #2 The current administration had proof that Saddam had WMD's and was capable of using them on other countries. These are to me the major two even though there are probably many more that can be listed, and these two have both been proved to be false. "

Wish wrote on May 25, 2007 3:32 PM:

" I wish we could speak to the Congress firsthand...and that they would just give us a chance and listen to what we have to say. This country was based on Democracy, and had declared that everyone is equal. When will we all truly be equal and heard? "

Duh? means dumb? wrote on May 25, 2007 6:44 PM:

" Did Germany attack us? Did Korea attack us? Did Viet Nam attack us? Did the Balkans attack us? Come to think of it, these wars were all engineered by democrats. My point is, national interests have been used time and again as justification for armed conflict, by both parties, so cut the pointing fingers crap and look for a solution toward victory against terrorism. "

Duh wrote on May 25, 2007 10:26 PM:

" " Did Germany attack us? Did Korea attack us? Did Viet Nam attack us?" *** Germany's Axis ally attacked us. The other two wars were terrible mistakes that wasted a lot of lives to accomplish nothing. "

Duh wrote on May 25, 2007 10:34 PM:

" The only moral reasons to go to war are self-defense or to defend an innocent allied population. Every other reason for invading another country is a war crime. And George W. Bush, who lied us into attacking a country that posed no threat, is a war criminal who should be impeached and prosecuted. "

Doh! wrote on May 26, 2007 12:27 AM:

" Here we go again Duh-mass: Regime change in Iraq was the established policy of the CLINTON ADMINISTRATION. But Clinton being the true gutless Libtard like yourself, didn't want to use the military to do it. After 9/11 that all changed. Saddam could no longer be tolerated. He was warned, and after 17 failed U.N. resolutions there was no other solution but war! And your Dumbacrat politicians voted for it! Now you can spin revisionist history all you want, but the facts are the facts! You're just afraid that the Iraq war is getting better and that would be an utter political disaster for you Libtards! And if a Liberal Left-wing rag like TIME has to report good news from Iraq, then I can assure you things ARE getting better! You just can't stomach the thought of your little Al Qaeda boys getting their a55es blown to smithereens! I say let are noble military continue to do just that! So why do you want to stand in the way of our military's progress? Because you're afraid that they will succeed! Your motives are transparent. Now, come back when you've got some fresh Leftard talking points, wimpy! "

Doh! wrote on May 26, 2007 12:37 AM:

" Hey Duh-mass, over on the "White House has caused real war for us" thread you just quoted Ron Paul -"They attack us because we've been over there. We've been bombing Iraq for 10 years. We've been in the Middle East [for years]."- You just agreed that there was a connection between Saddams Iraq and terrorism! You just implied that there was a connection between Iraq and 9/11! BWHHAHAHAHHH You can't even keep your treasonous propaganda straight! Look's like I'm gonna enjoy spanking your a55 all over this thread too. Looks like I'm here to stay, Libtard! "

Doh wrote on May 26, 2007 1:03 AM:

" Hey fchipper- The Bush Administration NEVER said there was any connection between Saddam and 9/11. Either your lying, or your an idiot. Or your both- which would make you a Libtard! Glad we got that cleared up. "

Duh wrote on May 26, 2007 9:01 AM:

" Unreasoning fear after 9-11 left the country vulnerable to being manipulated into invading and occupying a nation that had nothing to do with 9-11, and had neither attacked nor threatened us. We spent rivers of blood and mountains of treasure on an urgent mission to destroy weapons that didn't exist. We've paid an awful price for surrendering to that irrational fear -- a nearly $9 trillion national debt and counting, more than 3,000 dead Americans and counting, vast, uncounted numbers of dead Iraqis and finally, a civil war. This was all predictable, and in fact predicted by honest, intelligent observers. Decisions based on fear usually have regrettable consequences. The U.S. military budget is higher than those of the next 20 biggest military spenders combined, and six times larger than that of the second-place finisher, China. That's too much fear, folks. Yes, some fears are legitimate. But even those should be examined coldly and calmly. Panic never helps anyone at any time with anything. Other fears, however, are illegitimate -- illusions spun from nightmares for political purposes, to keep the herd off balance and stampeding in some predetermined direction. Here's one way to tell the difference. Check out the national news media coverage. When it's full of stories about terrible things that might possibly maybe happen or that could possibly have already happened but didn't, you are being had. So be terrified of Saddam's invisible drone plane WMD. Tremble at the nonexistent bird flu pandemic. Cower before the cyanide subway attack that didn't happen. But above all, hide under your desk and never, ever ask what happened to your constitutional rights. What would a coward like you do with constitutional rights anyway? "

Doh wrote on May 26, 2007 9:37 AM:

" GREGORY JENNINGS is an Al Qaeda sympathizer and traitor. His views and goals are the same as the terrorists. His letter gives moral support for the Jihadist's who are torturing, murdering, and terrorizing our troops and innocent people all over the globe. This is treason- plain and simple. Have a nice Memorial Day, traitor. "

Duh wrote on May 26, 2007 10:50 AM:

" From Andrew Bard Schmookler — "Why have the Bushites never been willing to agree that the United States would not seek any permanent bases? That is a question that's not been covered in the mainstream media, and the Democrats have not done their part to insist on its being asked. The truth of this continual refusal of the Bushites to renounce the accoutrements of empire reveals the true nature and purpose of their disastrous venture in "preventive" (i.e. imperial) war. "On what basis does this president claim the right to insist that he knows better than the Congress, better than the Baker-Hamilton commission, better than the American people? How can he be so arrogant about his certainty after he's been so demonstrably wrong about so much about this war before?" "

Duh wrote on May 26, 2007 10:55 AM:

" The Bush administration claimed a connection between Iraq and 9-11 constantly, as everyone but a liar will remember. "There's overwhelming evidence there was a connection between Al Qaeda and the Iraqi government," Dick Cheney said in an interview on National Public Radio in January 2003. "I am very confident that there was an established relationship there." Bush, Powell and others used terms like the “sinister nexus,” “harboring,” “dealing with,” and “aids and protects.” "

Duh wrote on May 26, 2007 11:55 AM:

" Here are just a few of the lies Bush used to get the U.s. to invade and occupy Iraq, a country that posed no threat to the U.S. “Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof — the smoking gun — that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud.” — George W. Bush, Cincinnati, Ohio, 2002-10-07, on evidence for Iraq’s non-existent nukes. “The danger is clear: using chemical, biological or, one day, nuclear weapons, obtained with the help of Iraq, the terrorists could fulfill their stated ambitions and kill thousands or hundreds of thousands of innocent people in our country, or any other.” — George W. Bush, 2003-03-17 “Satellite photographs reveal that Iraq is rebuilding facilities at sites that have been part of its nuclear program in the past. Iraq has attempted to purchase high-strength aluminum tubes and other equipment needed for gas centrifuges, which are used to enrich uranium for nuclear weapons.” — George W. Bush, Cincinnati, Ohio, 2002-10-07. These tubes turned out to be tubing used to construct playground equipment. “We’ve also discovered through intelligence that Iraq has a growing fleet of manned and unmanned aerial vehicles that could be used to disperse chemical or biological weapons across broad areas. We’re concerned that Iraq is exploring ways of using these UAVS for missions targeting the United States.” — George W. Bush, Cincinnati, Ohio, 2002-10-07, on Iraq’s non-existent drones capable of launching an attack on the USA. “We found the weapons of mass destruction. We found biological laboratories. You remember when Colin Powell stood up in front of the world, and he said, Iraq has got laboratories, mobile labs to build biological weapons. They're illegal. They're against the United Nations resolutions, and we've so far discovered two. And we'll find more weapons as time goes on. But for those who say we haven't found the banned manufacturing devices or banned weapons, they're wrong, we found them.” — George W. Bush, 2005-05-23, Interview of the President by TVP, Poland. Bush was lying — they weren’t found. “Right now, Iraq is expanding and improving facilities that were used for the production of biological weapons.” — George W. Bush, Speech to UN General Assembly, 2002-09-12 “Our intelligence officials estimate that Saddam Hussein had the materials to produce as much as 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.” — George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, 2003-01-28 “The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa.” — George W. Bush, State of the Union Address, 2003-01-28. The documents supporting this turned were crudely forged. “We have sources that tell us that Saddam Hussein recently authorized Iraqi field commanders to use chemical weapons — the very weapons the dictator tells us he does not have.” — George W. Bush, Radio address, 2003-02-08 “Intelligence gathered by this and other governments leaves no doubt that the Iraq regime continues to possess and conceal some of the most lethal weapons ever devised.” — George W. Bush, Address to the nation, 2003-03-17 “While we were here in this Council chamber debating Resolution 1441 last fall, we know, we know from sources that a missile brigade outside Baghdad was dispersing rocket launchers and warheads containing biological warfare agent to various locations, distributing them to various locations in western Iraq. Most of the launchers and warheads had been hidden in large groves of palm trees and were to be moved every one to four weeks to escape detection.” — Colin Powell, 2003-02-05 “We know he has been absolutely trying to acquire nuclear weapons and we believe he has, in fact, reconstituted nuclear weapons,” — Dick Cheney, Meet the Press, 2003-03-16 “Simply stated, there is no doubt that Saddam Hussein now has weapons of mass destruction.” — Dick Cheney, Speech to VFW convention, 2002-08-26 “If he declares he has none, then we will know that Saddam Hussein is once again misleading the world.” — Ari Fleisher, Press Briefing, 2002-12-02 “Well, there is no question that we have evidence and information that Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, biological and chemical particularly . . . all this will be made clear in the course of the operation, for whatever duration it takes.” — Ari Fleisher, Press Briefing, 2003-03-22 “There is no doubt that the regime of Saddam Hussein possesses weapons of mass destruction. And . . . as this operation continues, those weapons will be identified, found, along with the people who have produced them and who guard them.” ~ General Tommy Franks, Press Conference, 2003-03-22 “I have no doubt we're going to find big stores of weapons of mass destruction.” — Ken Adelman, Defense Policy Board member, Washington Post, 2003-03-23 “One of our top objectives is to find and destroy the WMD. There are a number of sites.” — Patricia Clark, Pentagon Spokeswoman, Press Briefing, 2003-03-22 “What’s the difference?” — George W. Bush, 2003-12-16 in an interview with Diane Sawyer, excusing his lie that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction, by claiming that there was no difference between having weapons and wanting to have them. That’s Bush’s way of giving the American people the finger, if you didn’t notice. And here’s Paul Wolfowitz, admitting that the Bush administration lied and explaining why: “For bureaucratic reasons, we settled on one issue, weapons of mass destruction (as justification for invading Iraq) because it was the one reason everyone could agree on.” (Vanity Fair Interview, 2003-05-28) What neither he nor anyone else in the administration has ever admitted are their real reasons for invading Iraq. The supposed reasons for the Iraq war cited by Bush are mercurial and self-contradictory, and of no more substance than the hot air wafting out of his mouth. But the real reasons for the Iraq invasion have never changed. Bush has never dared to state them publicly. If he did, he'd be impeached and imprisoned as a war criminal. "

GTM wrote on May 26, 2007 12:39 PM:

" I think you hit the nail on the head, Doh!!!! Duh is so ignorant of everything that is going on that he doesn't have anything better to do with his time than slamming President Bush on anything and everything imaginable. I know a quick solution to try and end the war. Let's send Nancy Pelosi,Ted Kennedy,John Kerry,Osama Obama,John Edwards an most of all John Murtha and Hillary "Hotrod" Clinton to go and talk to Bin Laden and his leaders about a peace deal!!! I wonder if they would have the guts to do it. "

Rotty wrote on May 26, 2007 1:12 PM:

" Hey Hey Doh. Your posts are excellant - funny as heck, sometimes, but excellant! I hope you will continue to be here & post for a very very long time. This is a great change from the Libtards, who used to take over these Blogs, a long while back. I'm glad to finally see someone who can give it as good as it gets, from the Right, for a change. Thanks & keep up the great work! "

Decaf? wrote on May 26, 2007 4:57 PM:

" I think the DohDoh character needs to try decaf. "

Come on DohDoh wrote on May 26, 2007 5:30 PM:

" Do you have to stink up this site too? "

Doh! wrote on May 26, 2007 6:22 PM:

" ATTENTION DUH-MASS! There WAS a connection between Al Qaeda and Saddam. THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION CITED IT IN 1998! There was NOT a direct connection between the 9/11 hijackers and Saddam! And the White House NEVER said that there was! YOU just stated on the White House thread that "They attack us because we've been over there. We've been bombing Iraq for 10 years." YOU JUST DREW A DIRECT CONNECTION BETWEEN AL QADEA AND SADDAM'S IRAQ! Now then, Libtard- justify your own contradictory statements! What an idiot! "

Doh! wrote on May 26, 2007 6:33 PM:

" This is for Duh-mass and all his Libtard buddies! The CIA's "Comprehensive Report of the Special Advisor to the DCI on Iraq's WMD" by the Iraq Survey Group (ISG), also known as the "Duelfer Report", is the authority commonly cited by the Libtard's to debunk the threat of WMD's as an excuse to invade Iraq in 2003. BUT, here are some items taken from the Duelfer Report: 1) - "ISG technical experts fully evaluated less than one quarter of one percent of the over 10,000 weapons caches throughout Iraq" 2) - "Iraq could have re-established an elementary BW [biological warfare] program within a few weeks to a few months of a decision to do so" 3) - "we cannot express a firm view on the possibility that WMD elements were relocated out of Iraq prior to the war" Can your say Syria? "

Clinton first linked al Qaeda to Saddam wrote on May 26, 2007 6:38 PM:

" Happy reading Duh-mass! By Rowan Scarborough- THE WASHINGTON TIMES- (Published June 25, 2004) "The Clinton administration talked about firm evidence linking Saddam Hussein's regime to Osama bin Laden's al Qaeda network years before President Bush made the same statements. The issue arose again this month after the National Commission on Terrorist Attacks Upon the United States reported there was no "collaborative relationship" between the old Iraqi regime and bin Laden. Democrats have cited the staff report to accuse Mr. Bush of making inaccurate statements about a linkage. Commission members, including a Democrat and two Republicans, quickly came to the administration's defense by saying there had been such contacts. In fact, during President Clinton's eight years in office, there were at least two official pronouncements of an alarming alliance between Baghdad and al Qaeda. One came from William S. Cohen, Mr. Clinton's defense secretary. He cited an al Qaeda-Baghdad link to justify the bombing of a pharmaceutical plant in Sudan. Mr. Bush cited the linkage, in part, to justify invading Iraq and ousting Saddam. He said he could not take the risk of Iraq's weapons falling into bin Laden's hands. The other pronouncement is contained in a Justice Department indictment on Nov. 4, 1998, charging bin Laden with murder in the bombings of two U.S. embassies in Africa. The indictment disclosed a close relationship between al Qaeda and Saddam's regime, which included specialists on chemical weapons and all types of bombs, including truck bombs, a favorite weapon of terrorists. The 1998 indictment said: "Al Qaeda also forged alliances with the National Islamic Front in the Sudan and with the government of Iran and its associated terrorist group Hezbollah for the purpose of working together against their perceived common enemies in the West, particularly the United States. In addition, al Qaeda reached an understanding with the government of Iraq that al Qaeda would not work against that government and that on particular projects, specifically including weapons development, al Qaeda would work cooperatively with the government of Iraq." Shortly after the embassy bombings, Mr. Clinton ordered air strikes on al Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan and on the Shifa pharmaceutical factory in Sudan. To justify the Sudanese plant as a target, Clinton aides said it was involved in the production of deadly VX nerve gas. Officials further determined that bin Laden owned a stake in the operation and that its manager had traveled to Baghdad to learn bomb-making techniques from Saddam's weapons scientists. Mr. Cohen elaborated in March in testimony before the September 11 commission. He testified that "bin Laden had been living [at the plant], that he had, in fact, money that he had put into this military industrial corporation, that the owner of the plant had traveled to Baghdad to meet with the father of the VX program." He said that if the plant had been allowed to produce VX that was used to kill thousands of Americans, people would have asked him, " 'You had a manager that went to Baghdad; you had Osama bin Laden, who had funded, at least the corporation, and you had traces of [VX precursor] and you did what? And you did nothing?' Is that a responsible activity on the part of the secretary of defense?" - With love from Doh! "

Doh wrote on May 26, 2007 6:47 PM:

" To GTM and Rotty- Thanks for the comments guy's. I'm sticking around for a long time. These Libtard's have had there way on here for too damn long. And as long as our troops are sending fresh souls to Allah- the least we can do is defend their cause back here at home. Starting with all of these Al Qaeda- sympathizing, Liberal traitors. Good to hear from ya guys. Let's fly those flags this week-end! "

Doh wrote on May 26, 2007 6:51 PM:

" OH NO Duh-mass! Senator Hillary Clinton: (October 10, 2002) "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock. His missile delivery capability, his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists including Al-Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." "

Doh wrote on May 26, 2007 6:52 PM:

" OH NO AGAIN Duh-mass! Hillary Clinton: (October 10, 2002) "In the four years since the inspections, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability and his nuclear program." "

Doh wrote on May 26, 2007 6:53 PM:

" OH MY! HOW EMBARRASSING FOR YOU Duh-mass! Nancy Pelosi: (October 10, 2002) "Yes, he has chemical weapons. Yes, he has biological weapons. He is trying to get nuclear weapons." "

Doh! wrote on May 26, 2007 6:57 PM:

" John Kerry: (January 31, 2003) "If you don't believe...Saddam Hussein is a threat with nuclear weapons, then you shouldn't vote for me." BWWHAAHAHAHA!!!!!! HEY Duh-mass! Did you vote for Kerry? Come clean now, wimpy- you know you did! Now fess up, sweetheart! "

Doh wrote on May 26, 2007 8:02 PM:

" Here's another one for you Duh-mass - THE BUTLER REPORT - After nearly a six-month investigation, a special panel reported to the British Parliament July 14 that British intelligence had indeed concluded back in 2002 that Saddam Hussein was seeking to buy uranium. The review panel was headed by Lord Butler of Brockwell, who had been a cabinet secretary under five different Prime Ministers and who is currently master of University College, Oxford. The Butler report said British intelligence had "credible" information from several sources that a 1999 visit by Iraqi officials to Niger was for the purpose of buying uranium. Here's what the report said: "It is accepted by all parties that Iraqi officials visited Niger in 1999. The British Government had intelligence from several different sources indicating that this visit was for the purpose of acquiring uranium. Since uranium constitutes almost three-quarters of Niger’s exports, the intelligence was credible." The Butler Report affirmed what the British government had said about the Niger uranium story back in 2003, and specifically endorsed what Bush said as well. Butler Report: "By extension, we conclude also that the statement in President Bush’s State of the Union Address of 28 January 2003 that “The British Government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa” was well-founded." - You know Duh-mass, you need to get your head out of those looney Leftard web sites and do a little serious research on the FACTS. I'm willing to school you (out of the goodness of my heart) if you would like.....Oh who am I kidding! I'm gonna school you even if you don't like it! And believe me- you won't! HAHAHAHHAA "

Billie Brant wrote on May 26, 2007 9:35 PM:

" Hey Doh! That's not bird shot coming out of your double barrel 12ga shotgun!Those are Remington Express "hot" loads! Sounds to me like you can reload your own shells too! Duh will be busy this weekend picking shot out of his hinney!Keep 'em coming!.. By the way, I WILL be flying my flag this weekend too! Remember and respect our Vets everyone,those that are gone, and those still with us! "

Doh wrote on May 26, 2007 10:48 PM:

" Hey Duh-mass - I still don't see any quotes from the Bush Administration with the words: Saddam - 9/11 - connection. And do you know why I don't see any? Because there never was any. "

Doh wrote on May 26, 2007 11:40 PM:

" Thank's Billie! Fly those colors high and proud my friend! And God bless those who gave the ultimate sacrifice. And God bless our beloved grunts in the field! "

Chris (the original) wrote on May 27, 2007 3:42 AM:

" Doh, great job. Your points are important and well made because you have the facts and the actual quotes from the Dimocrats behind you. Just one thing about your posts....my opinon only....I'd enjoy them a lot more if you made them a little less personal. Stick to your FACTS. Those win your arguments for you without the other stuff. That said, hope you all have a great Memorial Day weekend and let none of us forget just what that means. "

Early Bird wrote on May 27, 2007 5:15 AM:

" I'm kind of curious about something, Billie. Is it the content of the Doh's messages that you seem to admire or is it the mean spirited name calling and, in general, immature tone that appeals to you? If memory serves me correctly, you have always been a poster who has shown class and have been critical of those who stooped to this type of style of posting. What changed? While there has been more than one person who has called for civility, you seem to be encouraging this mean spirited, nasty and immature style. Which is it, Billie? I have to tell you that I have always admired your, normally well thought out, messages. I am very disappointed that you would sink to the level of this, obvious disturbed, person. Support the troops, support the war, support the President but please don't support this type of behavior. "

question wrote on May 27, 2007 7:40 AM:

" Doh wrote on May 26, 2007 10:48 PM: " Hey Duh-mass - I still don't see any quotes from the Bush Administration with the words: Saddam - 9/11 - connection. And do you know why I don't see any? Because there never was any. " Then why did Clinton fire rockets into the Asprin factory???? "

Doh wrote on May 27, 2007 8:30 AM:

" To question- Clinton fired rocket's into the Aspirin factory BEFORE 9/11 ever occurred. I'll say this again- there was a relationship between Saddam and Al Qaeda. But there has never been any proof that Saddam had anything to do with 9/11 specifically. And the Bush Administration NEVER said that there was a Saddam-9/11 connection. They only stated the official position that the Clinton Admin already documented- that Saddam had a working relationship with Al Qaeda. Especially with the "Father of VX nerve gas" WHO RESIDED IN BAGHDAD, and to learn bomb-making techniques from Saddam's weapons scientists. This was all spelled out in Clinton's Nov 1998 Indictment of Bin Laden. Would you like to see the excerpts from that Indictment? And again- regime change in Iraq WAS THE OFFICIAL U.S. POLICY ESTABLISHED BY THE CLINTON ADMIN. After 9/11 Bush thought it would be wise to actually enforce that policy. (Crazy huh) Something Clinton never had the gut's to do! "

Doh wrote on May 27, 2007 9:28 AM:

" Chris- I understand what you're saying about being less personal in my attacks, and I respect the fact that you're obviously a genuinely nice guy. I'm not simply flying off the cuff uncontrollably. I've thought about this before I jumped in. Before I ever posted on this site- I have been debating Libtard's on countless blogs at countless web sites. And I have come to learn that these anti-war types are all basically the same. Just like Early Bird, they only want to play nice when they get their ears boxed back in a debate. But in no time at all they're true feelings start to spew out. That's when they fall back on their tired old mantras "Bush lied!" Bush is a fascist" "Bush is the true terrorist!" "It's all America's fault!" "America is creating the terrorist's!" "American troops are the real terrorist's!" "This war is just blood-for-oil!" "Saddam was never a threat!" and now it has evolved into "Terrorism? What terrorism?" "Bush is just making up the terrorism threat to scare us into following him!" Now here's the real problem Chris- Our troops in the field ARE READING THIS CRAP! I have been on countless military blog's and I have seen the demoralizing effect that this treasonous sewage has had on our fighting men and women! Now imagine that you're a U.S. soldier in Iraq- you've had buddies that have been killed by terrorist. You've seen the improvements that have occurred because of your work. You've heard the gratitude from the Iraqi people. You've witnessed the indiscriminate brutality of the enemy. You know that your work is giving these people the freedom that they have never had. Now imagine how you would feel when you see this blog-site. Or when you see what the American media is reporting and NOT REPORTING! So how did this country get to this point? Simple. The Leftards and their buddies in the media have consistently pounded away on the public, that treasonous descent is a good thing! That it's a healthy sign of Democracy. In short- that there is no such thing a treason anymore! Well I think that it's high time that more American's start to get p!ssed off at the dishonest Liberal appeasers whose stupidity is putting this country in more peril than anyone wants to admit! The time has come to call the Libtard's by their true name- TRAITORS! And I can't think of a nice way to do that! "

Billie Brant wrote on May 27, 2007 10:11 AM:

" To Early Bird, While I don't usually post in this manner, sometimes I get fired up when I read some of the almost traitorous remarks posted here, and I fire back. Also on another site I got fed up with a poster calling those of us who live in this area hicks repeatedly, so I let loose on him/her also. If this person finds us so distasteful and dumb why live here?.. I am a passionate person and sometimes that comes through loud and clear with a knee jerk reaction. I don't claim to have all the answer's or claim to perfect in my reactions....As far as this war in Iraq is concerned, Toby and I were against going in when we did. We felt it was too quick and needed more initial planning. That being said, once we were there we felt committed to see it through. While I am not a big fan of GWB personally, I do however feel it is not right to call him a traitor as some have done here. Misguided perhaps in some things but not a traitor.... I don't want to see us leave Iraq as we did in Vietnam and turn the country over to a regime that still to this day violates the most basic human rights of many of it's citizens, citizens who don't support the government. These people are tortured, thrown into prison and subjected to all manner of horrible things. Now that Vietnam is in the WTO the rest of the world has little to hold over their heads to make them clean up their act. We can forget about as full an accounting of our POW/MIA's have little The so called "torture" our government has used to gain information to save American lives is NOTHING in comparison. Harsh tactic's perhaps, but torture?... I do know as related to me by not only Toby, but many Vietnam vets how demoralizing it was to hear all the negative remarks directed toward the soldier's during that war. It's happening again, and even some of the highest profile politician's in Washington are getting in on the act. All of the Rosie O'Donnell's, Cindy Sheehan's, Hanoi Janes,etc. are bombarding us with just how awful we are. I don't want to see Iraq go the way of Vietnam.... As to your question as to what I like about Doh's posts, it's mainly the content. Who ever Doh is he/she makes some good points. Over the top stylewise? Maybe. Maybe Doh's passion gets the better of him/her too or maybe Doh IS a smarta$$ while driving home his/her points. So, if I sometimes react in a way that doesn't always appeal to everyone that's just the way it is. I try not to make a habit of being "mean spirited" as you call it. Most of us have been guilty of letting our mouths overload our butts at one time or another. Not an excuse, just an explanation. Still friend's Early Bird? "

Wow! wrote on May 27, 2007 10:29 AM:

" Ten rapid fire posts from Doh Doh last night, maybe Mommy won't let him out of the basement after all. He could definitely use some fresh air(and some soap to wash that nasty mouth out). And for Billie, did you find a new role model? You know what they say about birds of a feather. "

Doh wrote on May 27, 2007 10:55 AM:

" Hey Wow- Speaking of bird's of a feather- how does it feel to share the same goals, desires and belief's as your cockroach buddies in Al Qaeda? I'll bet that America-hatred makes you absolutely warm and fuzzy inside on this Memorial Day weekend! Doesn't it wimpy! "

Duh wrote on May 27, 2007 11:17 AM:

" From the Washington Post — "Employees of Blackwater USA, a private security firm under contract to the State Department, opened fire on the streets of Baghdad twice in two days last week, and one of the incidents provoked a standoff between the security contractors and Iraqi forces, U.S. and Iraqi officials said. "A Blackwater guard shot and killed an Iraqi driver Thursday near the Interior Ministry, according to three U.S. officials and one Iraqi official who were briefed on the incident but spoke on condition of anonymity because of a pending investigation. On Wednesday, a Blackwater-protected convoy was ambushed in downtown Baghdad, triggering a furious battle in which the security contractors, U.S. and Iraqi troops and AH-64 Apache attack helicopters were firing in a congested area. "Blackwater confirmed that its employees were involved in two shootings but could neither confirm nor deny that there had been any casualties, according to a company official who declined to be identified because of the firm's policy of not addressing incidents publicly." In other words, their policy of not publicly addressing the random killings they commit. Just another day of "good Bush progress" in Iraq. "

Duh wrote on May 27, 2007 11:23 AM:

" "Now here's the real problem Chris- Our troops in the field ARE READING THIS CRAP! I have been on countless military blog's and I have seen the demoralizing effect that this treasonous sewage has had on our fighting men and women!" --- The troops can kill and be killed, but Daddy Doh says they are such fragile little blossoms that they can't bear to read the nasty words of the truth. Boo hoo, Doh. Boo hoo. "

Doug Clemons wrote on May 27, 2007 12:13 PM:

" Hey Doh, right on! I love your posts, and I don't mind the name calling one bit. You've given me a reason to start reading this site again! Givem hell partner! "

To Billie wrote on May 27, 2007 12:31 PM:

" I thought your post was well done. You said it well. "

My two cents worth wrote on May 27, 2007 12:35 PM:

" I find it hilarious that some of the pro-Iraq war supporters automatically link any dissension to this war as being pro terrorist. Being against this war does not equate to being pro terrorists. Some of you may have been listening to the right-wing radicals on the radio too much. There are a lot of people who felt Bush was right to go into Afghanistan to seek out the terrorist's, but they did not and still do not see this war in Iraq as a way to go after the terrorists. What ever happened to tracking down the real master mind of 9/11. Seems like we kind of forgot about him. I think I am a very good American. I always vote, have served in the military, but will not agree to being called a traitor just because I disagree with the President over this war. I certainly don't see speaking out against it as treason either. If we all were to follow the lead of a certain poster on here , then we would be no better than a bunch of lemming like fascists. That's not for me. I will not lower myself to calling names like the Doh person does, but have to wonder why he doesn't see his ideas as somewhat fascist. With the exception of total control of private enterprise, this administration seems to fit the description of a fascist state. Extreme nationalism, isn't that what Cheney wants? Remember what he said about criticism of this war and this administration? As a free people, I think we have an obligation to speak out about what we don't agree with. The first amendment is a wonderful thing to have, it's just too bad that some don't agree with it. If they did, they wouldn't go bananas when anyone dares to disagree with them or what they believe in. That's my two cents worth, and I'm sure the serial poster will have something nasty to say about it, and that's OK. "

Doh! wrote on May 27, 2007 12:39 PM:

" OH NO LIBTARD'S! NOW NEWSWEEK RELUCTANTLY REPORTS MORE GOOD NEWS FROM IRAQ! - From NSNBC.COM NEWSWEEK -The Tribes of Iraq: America's New Allies- U.S. field commanders are finally beginning to tap the traditional networks that helped Saddam to stay in power. (By Melinda Liu June 4, 2007 issue) " Pungent smoke floats through the chandeliers of the tribal chief's reception room. At his home in Ramadi, capital of Anbar province and a onetime Iraqi insurgent stronghold, Sheik Shakir Saoud Aasi is enjoying after-dinner cigars with his guest of honor, battalion commander Lt. Col. Craig Kozeniesky of the 2/5 Marines. Around the room, Marines and Iraqi tribesmen and police are sitting together, swapping jokes and stories. Some of these Iraqis were probably shooting at Americans less than a year ago. Now they and the Marines are fighting side by side against Al Qaeda. "We are not just friends but also brothers," the sheik tells Kozeniesky. "This is a new beginning for both of us." Kozeniesky can only agree: "Things have changed dramatically." A 5-year-old Iraqi boy in traditional robes and headdress is racing around the room and vaulting into U.S. troops' laps. What does he want to be when he grows up? He proudly announces: "American general named Steve!" .... "THE INSURGENT'S ARE IN RETREAT NOW, thanks largely to traditional tribal leaders who began trying to organize themselves in late 2005. The radicals of Al Qaeda in Iraq, who were led at the time by the murderous Abu Mussab al-Zarqawi, "went after them with a vengeance," says General Allen. "It was very bloody and very ugly." Late last year local sheiks—most of whom had by this point lost family members to the killings—formed a group they called Anbar Awakening. Their leader, Sheik Abdul Sattar Abu Rishah, had lost three brothers and his father to insurgent attacks. The sheiks ordered their followers to assist the Americans against the jihadists—and among Iraq's tribesmen even today, the sheik is the law. After the Awakening's sheiks began urging their followers to join the police, enlistments soared. The quick drop in attacks would seem to indicate that many of the newly minted cops were once part of the insurgency. While declining to take a public stand on a nationwide amnesty, the Americans aren't asking too many questions. The names of new recruits are checked against a list of previously detained insurgents, but most background checks are left to the sheiks. "In every counterinsurgency, one of the indicators ultimately of some level of success [was] that the people who fought you decided not to fight you anymore," says General Allen. "We're not naive," says Colonel Charlton. "Some police could've been insurgents at this time last year. But the sheiks have changed their fundamental understanding of who the threat is—and the threat is Al Qaeda." OH MY! Looks like a bad weekend for Duh-mass! First Memorial Day- now this! The poor traitor. sniff* "

Doh! wrote on May 27, 2007 12:49 PM:

" OH NO AGAIN! Cindy Sheehan Quits The Democrat Party Over Iraq War Funding Bill! Here's what Mama Moonbat wrote on the Daily KOS site yesterday: "Dear Democratic Congress, Hello, my name is Cindy Sheehan and my son Casey Sheehan was killed on April 04, 2004 in Sadr City , Baghdad , Iraq . He was killed when the Republicans still were in control of Congress. Naively, I set off on my tireless campaign calling on Congress to rescind George’s authority to wage his war of terror while asking him "for what noble cause" did Casey and thousands of other have to die. Now, with Democrats in control of Congress, I have lost my optimistic naiveté and have become cynically pessimistic as I see you all caving into as one Daily Kos poster called: "Mr. 28%" I knew having a Democratic Congress would make no difference in grassroots action. That’s why we went to DC when you all were sworn in to tell you that we wanted the troops back from Iraq and BushCo held accountable while you pushed for ethics reform which is quite a hoot...don’t’ you think? We all know that it is affordable for you all to play this game of political mayhem because you have no children in harm’s way...let me tell you what it is like: It used to be George Bush’s war. You could have ended it honorably. Now it is yours and you all will descend into calumnious history with BushCo. The Camp Casey Peace Institute is calling all citizens who are as disgusted as we are with you all to join us in Philadelphia on July 4th to try and figure a way out of this "two" party system that is bought and paid for by the war machine which has a stranglehold on every aspect of our lives. As for myself, I am leaving the Democratic Party. You have completely failed those who put you in power to change the direction our country is heading. We did not elect you to help sink our ship of state but to guide it to safe harbor." BWAAAAHAAHAHAH! Could somebody check on poor Duh-mass. I think he might have gone suicidal on us! heheeeehee! "

Billie Brant wrote on May 27, 2007 1:12 PM:

" To Wow! I don't usually have a role model as you put it. I pick and choose lots of different ideas and listen to what all kinds of folks have to say. I make up my own mind. I don't follow blindly!Period! I have always questioned things all my life. If I don't conform to some's ideas and opinions so be it, they don't to agree with mine either. That goes for our government too. While it's the best the world has to offer, it's not without it's flaws. So you're free to form your opinion of me, anyone else and all our ways of looking at things. Decide for yourself. I do! "

Doh wrote on May 27, 2007 4:42 PM:

" Looks like Duh-mass is at it again with half-truths and lies. -"In other words, their policy of not publicly addressing the random killings they commit."- RANDOM KILLINGS? Why don't you tell the whole story traitor? Here's the part of the story that he's leaving out -"The Blackwater convoy involved in the Wednesday incident was ambushed at 11 a.m., according to the U.S. military, while escorting State Department employees participating in the reconstruction effort. U.S. officials and bystanders said the Blackwater vehicles were struck by a well-coordinated attack, with insurgents unleashing a barrage of small-arms fire from surrounding rooftops." Isn't he a sweetheart folk's? Don't you just love the way he spin's the story to give a big ole moral boost to the terrorist! Isn't it cute how he distort's the American's as the bad guy's! Now tell us all how your NOT A TRAITOR? Here's the story - http://tinyurl.com/yuqk4h "

Doh wrote on May 27, 2007 4:48 PM:

" Oh look! Duh-mass chooses this Memorial Day Weekend to give our troops in the field his very warmest support- Al Qaeda style! -"The troops can kill and be killed, but Daddy Doh says they are such fragile little blossoms that they can't bear to read the nasty words of the truth. Boo hoo, Doh. Boo hoo."- But of course he's no traitor! (eyeroll) Right? "

Doh wrote on May 27, 2007 5:04 PM:

" Hey, my two cents Libtard- I've got change for ya! Here's a little newsflash, slick. Al Qaeda has called Iraq their central front. That's where they are graciously sending all of their forgein fighters, so our military can conviently send them back to Allah in pieces. Our troops in Iraq are doing what they do best- killing Al Qaeda scumbags! If you want to stop them from doing that, then you must be a treasonous Al Qaeda sympathizer! Or maybe just an idiot. Which is it? "

Billie Brant wrote on May 27, 2007 5:27 PM:

" To My two cents worth- I don't have a problem with people per se' speaking out and expressing their views pro or con towards the war in Iraq. I do however have a problem with people like Cindy Sheehan who is "in bed" so to speak with known enemies of the U.S.A such as Hugo Chavez and Fidel Castro. I have a problem with Hanoi Jane sitting on an anti aircraft gun saying"I wish I had one of those bastards in my sights now" meaning our pilots. She's still shooting off her mouth in regards to Vietnam. I have a problem with Ratchet Jaw Rosie and her infinate knowledge as to who the real terrorists are. To paraphrase Rosie, she said on The View that 600,000 plus( I forget the exact number she quoted) have been killed in Iraq. Then she asks "Who are the terrorists"? Then she has the nerve to say she supports our troops! Which is it Rosie! Are our guys terrorists or do you support them? SHE gets upset because "Poor little Elizabeth" wouldn't defend her !She said Elizabeth was cowardly. She's also a structural engineer dont'cha know. She KNOWS why one of the buildings went down on 911. WE did it! Pa-leeeeeze! I have a problem with a senator who compares our soldier's in Vietnam to Genghis Kahn and continues to slander the warrior's of today We all know that some are going to cross the line and do despicable things as has happened in EVERY WAR, but to paint the majority of them with that brush is not only wrong, it insults the integrity of our men and women serving in the military... Those who speak out against the war don't like to be called traitors and I don't believe most of them are. By the same token I don't believe they should go so far as to call our Commander in Chief a traitor either. As I said earlier, I'm not a huge fan of GWB. Never have been, but do I think he's a traitor and set out to undermine our county? No I don't. ...When all those Marines were killed in Lebanon during the Reagan years, Toby was so upset and angry at the foolishness and downright stupidity that got them killed he started a protest right here in Coles County. Vigils were held, letter's written and generally hell was raised over it! So you see I'm not against speaking out, Lord knows I've done it often enough, I do however draw the line at calling our President a traitor. So, "Two cents" do I think you're a traitor because you speak out responsibly, nope I don't!... I have my doubts as to if anyone here will change their minds due to any poster's arguements on any subject. But we can post away freely. That's the beauty of our freedoms we have here... Oh! As a footnote, because Rosie the bully got beat up on by "poor little Elizabeth " on nation wide TV,she couldn't take it and took her toys and went home in a huff like the brat she is. The shoe was on the other foot for a change. Name calling you say? Yep! I feel as though by calling her only a bully and a brat I held back what I really think of her and used a lot of restraint. "

Old Vet wrote on May 27, 2007 5:33 PM:

" Cut run have been with us even as far back as President Lincoln's time. But now the Jackass party has had the Liberals mixed with the down right Communist take control of the party. All they want is for us to lose our freedom to anyone who is willing to take control of us. I'm afraid there is to many of them in congress willing to sell out for $$ and power. God Bless our troops,for they truly need it today. "

Boo political parties wrote on May 27, 2007 6:26 PM:

" It is important to remember that the Republican Congress aided the invasion of Iraq. They allowed the Bush Administration to do whatever they wanted with none of the right questions asked. Anti-war Republicans would be "disloyal" to not want to go to war with Iraq. The Democrats went along, so they would, too, be considered "patriotic," and not get put on the spot. My point is that the Congress failed to do its job, due to the fact that Bush was a Republican, and they were Republicans. The current Republican party put on the whole show. It is dangerous when a political party gains too much power, whether it be Democrat or Republican. However, many presidents have had this happen. It is when you have a bad leader (Bush and his Administration) when really bad stuff happens...since that power is being used for evil purposes, and the only person that can stop them (Congress) doesn't, out of "loyalty." The current high-ranking Republican party is entirely to blame and will never admit it. The people that are behind this Republican party are also to blame, such as Doh and Billie Brant, who sink to name-calling and agree with torture of other humans. They must love watching Saw and Hostel. I don't think we should even have two "main" parties. This brings competition, hatred, opposition, corrupt money-grubbers and political- corporation bribes, and also small minds. I say small minds because most people believe that if you are a Republican, you believe certain things, or if you are a Democrat, you believe certain things. However, there are many people that don't fall into either party. Thus, they have to pick and choose someone who they only somewhat agree with, for that "strongest" issue. Many people are Republican because they feel this is the "religious" side and that Democrats aren't religious. This simply isn't true. In particular, abortion and homosexuality are often what divides Republicans from Democrats. These are big issues. However, we have to be able to accept each other's opinions and learn to compromise. Instead, we have separated. Republicans have made it their mission to be the so-called "religious" party, and to look down on Democrats, for wanting to help the environment and not wanting to torture and kill people. We must move on from only having two "main" political parties. Republicans and their followers are for torture of other people, which is a very ugly quality. I never thought so many religious people would enjoy torture so much. Oh, wait, they're NOT religious, if they enjoy torturing people...they are the opposite of what they believe they are! "

You da man Doh! wrote on May 27, 2007 6:45 PM:

" You're saying what a lot of us have been feeling for a very long time. It's about time someone on here did that. Great facts too. Stick around buddy. "

Doh! wrote on May 27, 2007 6:50 PM:

" And right on cue! The New York Times couldn't let the recent good news out of Iraq get a foothold in the publics psyche. NYT LEAD MONDAY: A dozen soldiers interviewed over one-week period, most said they were disillusioned by repeated deployments, by what they saw as abysmal performance of Iraqi security forces and by conflict they considered civil war, one they had no ability to stop... Developing... How predictable! "

So now we know who Doh really is wrote on May 27, 2007 7:44 PM:

" Your patting yourself on the back gave you away, Pal. I think you are the no name right winger who was on here several weeks ago, who would post and then come back on using a pseudonym congratulating himself. I suspect that's who you are. What's the matter, upset that not enough people are Deny it all you want, but after a while you kind of figure these things coming on here singing your praises so you have to do it yourself? Pathetic. "

Founding fathers wrote on May 27, 2007 9:22 PM:

" A large majority of the posters to this letter, including the letter writer, need to read the first 10 Federalist papers. One of Publius reasons for a Union was protection from countries that may directly or indirectly attack the US. According to the Senate hearings in 2005, the final report, signed by Reb & Dem, stated Iraq's involvement. "

Doh wrote on May 27, 2007 9:40 PM:

" Doh's the only name I'm using Libtard. I'm proud of all MY posts! And unlike you chickensh!t- I actually use a name. Pretty convenient for you to walk away from your posts when you make an a55 out of yourself, like you just did, isn't it wimpy! "

Doh wrote on May 27, 2007 9:43 PM:

" Too Boo- Torture? What torture? What torture did we inflict on the scumbag Jihadist's? "

Rotty wrote on May 27, 2007 9:55 PM:

" To "Boo political parties": You attempt to try to split things down the middle, but you fail terribly. "Republicans agree with torture of other humans"? Give us a break! Go back to your Libtard promise land, & talk it over with your traitor friends, on how you can give TRUE Americans the craps for listening to your verbal ignorance. Torture you say? I say we're "Knockin'em Dead", and I'm damn proud of our women & men in the Armed Forces for doing so! Thank God for that! Please, "Boo", don't feel sorry for Duh-mass, while he's down picking buckshot out of his hinney. It's very unbecoming. ~ Be safe & have a great Memorial Day everyone! "

Doh wrote on May 27, 2007 10:00 PM:

" Oh- that's right! We made them wear those awful panties on their heads! UUUUUGGGHHHHHHH! Oh the humanity! Of course- Bill Clinton and Ted Kennedy would have paid big bucks for that treatment! "

Doh wrote on May 27, 2007 10:02 PM:

" Well said Rotty! "

Billie Brant wrote on May 27, 2007 11:37 PM:

" You are so wrong Boo! I DO NOT advocate torture of human beings. What do you define as torture? Sawing off the heads of captives and holding them up for the whole world to see! I don't approve of that! Teaching 12 year old boys to do the same in Afghanistan is not teaching torture techinques by these people? How about these jihadists booby trapping their own children in a car and then because they are oh so brave, they skedaddle out of the car BEFORE it blows up? Mother's willing to sacrifice their babies by boobytrapping them, isn't torturing their own children? Do you think I approve of that? Don't forget the tortured bodies of our soldier's several months ago that were mutilated then booby trapped . Our people risked their lives to defuse the bombs before their bodies could be recovered and sent home. They don't stop at torturing live prisoner's they have to further humiliate and torture their dead bodies! You DARE say that I advocate torture of our enemies because we might play loud rap music which offends their ears OR that we have them interrogated by a mere WOMAN? That's torture alright! It offends their male personna's on reglious grounds and we can't have that now can we! We might deprive them of sleep, that's a horrible torture! Oh yes don't forget that while imprisoned they get fed decent meals and have a copy of their holy book, plenty of fresh air, exercise and medical treatment. That's the worst kind of torture of all! ...I did not think the degrading treatment of prisoner's complete with the nasty photo's taken was acceptable. Compared with what is done to their prisoner's it kinda pales in comparison though don't you think? .. What of the three missing soldier's we have spent all this time trying to find? One has been found. Dead! Do you think their captor's fed them tea and cookies and "made nice" all the while they were holding them? Did they give our people a copy of the Bible if they asked for it? Don't talk to me about torture. On our WORST day we wouldn't do what these animals do! Oh Yes! There's another type of torture of women. They wear clothing from head to toe and are subjected to being beaten by ANY man if said man thinks they have offended them! Ain't life under Taliban rule in Afghanistan just wonderful! Mass graves of tortured and killed people in Iraq and you say I advocate torture? The techinques our government uses compared to these animals is a picnic at the beach! Our enemies are probably laughing behind our backs at our definition of torture except of course when they are captured and have a worldwide audience at their disposal when they complain about being "tortured". NO SIR! I do not approve of torture! And for your information I am not a Republican, nor am I a Democrat any longer as I had been most of my adult life. I pick and choose my candidates as carefully as I can and sadly sometimes the choices. are very poor! I do not care for the ultra hard LEFT OR RIGHT. I will say I have become more of a consersative at this stage of my life, but that does not mean I swallow everything that is put on the plate. Not by a long shot! If you want to call me a name caller because I believe people like Cindy, Rosie and Hanoi Jane are traitors and they would rather give our enemies the benefit of the doubt over their own country, go ahead. If you believe that these jerks( oops there I go name calling again) and their obvious delight at denegrating the finest young men and women in our military and taking cheap shots at our country, are honorable people and wouldn't stoop to name calling like me, go ahead! Give it your best shot! I hope none of us ever sees what real torture is. If these radical jihadists aren't stopped, we may find out! We were made aware how far they are willing to go on 911. Whether or not Al Qaeda was in Iraq before we went in is a moot point. They are there now and have to be dealt with. There are hoards of them all over the world not just in Iraq and their objective is to kill or dominate everyone(infidels) who won't go along with them. So before you state again that I advocate torture, you might want to redefine the definition of torture. "

ChrisN wrote on May 28, 2007 2:48 AM:

" It's amazing how many people are actually upset that Saddam isn't in power anymore. The President saw the same intelligence reports that John Edwards, Clinton, Kennedy and the others saw. They voted yes and had been saying for years that Saddam had WMD's. I guess it's terrible and "illegal" to have stopped the rape rooms, torture chambers, and the constant firing of missiles at our aircraft patrolling the "No Fly Zone". You liberals should quit listening to the socialist wing of your party and open your eyes. I for one am glad Bush is in office for all of this, a democrat would surrender and all sacrafices would be lost. "

Early Bird wrote on May 28, 2007 5:28 AM:

" So now we're back to the old business of accusing me of being someone else and someone else as me. Kind of confirms the idea that perhaps someone is getting delusional, doesn't it? Or could this be the result of his paranoia? What I am really confused about is his claim that I, like many others, have had my ears boxed back. More of his delusional claims about winning the debate on here? I have never conceded anything to him or the likes of him. Smarting off, patting yourself on the back and name calling does not, in my opinion, equate to boxing back someones ears back. If you bother to go back and read my posts you will see that I have always called for civility, but I realize that some people lack the maturity for that, and don't expect any changes from them. I would also point out that many others have tried to do the same. I suspect his tendency to post under several names might give him the mistaken impression that others do the same. The profile, that he claims to be mine, was probably right on, wasn't it? I'll bet his blustery bravado really is a mask to cover up his feeling of inadequacies, isn't it? It doesn't take an expert to see right through his smoke screen. He can deny it all he wants, but most of us have him figured out. Lastly for Billie: of course we're still friends. I was just a little concerned about your throwing kudos toward our immature little friend on here. Thanks for the clarification. I have been accused of being Voltaire, Answer and several others, and now I guess I am the ghost poster too. Wow, I can't wait till morning to see who I am now. Have a great Memorial Day, everyone, and please remember all those who have passed on, especially our veterans. "

Duh wrote on May 28, 2007 8:28 AM:

" Hey, I know how we can finish the Iraq occupation. Let's have George W. Bush play dress-up in his GI Joe flyboy playsuit and go prancing around the deck of an aircraft carrier in front of a big "Mission Accomplished" banner. Once the Iraqis see Bush's Village People act, I'm sure they'll settle their civil war at once. "

Answer wrote on May 28, 2007 8:49 AM:

" Doh, you truly are a zealot. There have been numerous reports of torture by the US up to and including death of captives. Also, the Bush administration policy of Extraoridnary Rendition, which amounted to giving suspected terrorists to countries that would torture them for us is also a violation of US law. The pure malice and lack of concern for human rights by many on the neo-facist right is disturbing at the very least. Please don't respond with the tired old response that the terrorists do worse things so it's ok for us to lower our standards. Ronald Reagan talked about the US being a shining city on a hill for the world to look up to. Unfortunately, the behavior of a few of our soldiers and many of our "leaders" has tarnished and dimmed that image perhaps forever. "

Billie Brant wrote on May 28, 2007 9:01 AM:

" I just returned from the little country cemetery where Toby and other's who have served their country have been laid to rest. Every year a memorial service is held there. While Toby did not die in battle his wounds were severe enough he could have. His will to live was a gift to all of us who knew and loved him for the next 35 years. He was a causuality of Vietnam, it just took him longer to leave this earth. I'm reminded twice a year at least (and more) on the days we honor officially our veteran's dead and alive of the sacrifices they have made. To me, Taps is the most mournful song ever written. I cry like a baby every time I hear it, even in a movie...While he may be gone I am so thankful he was in my life for over 25 years, the best years of my life. I focus my memories on that big bear of a man with a laugh that could rattle the window's. I can almost hear it while looking at photo's of him with his head thrown back in laughter. These are where most of my memories are instead of the grave and the granite marker that has his name on it. He's resting in peace now. "

Doh wrote on May 28, 2007 9:25 AM:

" Uh oh- Squirely Bird! You're starting to obsess on ME now, Libtard! Isn't that going to interfere with your man-crush on Rush Limbaugh? I'm flattered sweetheart! But I don't need to post under different names- I want each and every one of my posts to carry my name. Unlike you Leftard weasels- I don't try to hide my true beliefs. Or the extent of those beliefs. You're just upset that there are people in here who actually share my beliefs! Whine about my incivility all you want- nothing that I say can be as insulting to Americans as the treasonous sewage that your libtard buddies spew out on these pages on a daily basis! The difference between you and me- I understand the threat to this country. I understand who the people are who are giving aid, comfort and support to that threat. And unlike you- I understand that the time to play nice is OVER. And unlike you- I don't give a rats a55 what anyone thinks about me personally! Unlike YOU- I understand that it's not about ME! It's about recognizing the weakest link in this country- you Libtards's. Thanks for the interest- Squirely! "

Doh wrote on May 28, 2007 9:26 AM:

" Some question's for Boo: 1)Why don't you go back to your Mike P. name? 2)Will you please, get some help for your obvious chemical dependency problem? 3)Can you have one of the other Libtard's in here translate for us, whatever the hell it is you are rambling on about? 4)How did you even figure out how to turn your freaking computer on? 5)Do you fall down a lot? 6)Did your mother fall down a lot? 7)Is your father still down? 8)Why am I wasting my time posting to Forrest Gump? hmmmmmmmm? "

Just for the record wrote on May 28, 2007 9:51 AM:

" Not all of us who support our President and this war, are big mouthed morons. Please don't judge those of us supporting the war in Iraq, by what is being displayed on this thread. The disgusting display of ignorance and small mindedness does not reflect how most of us feel about our fellow citizens. Many of us just feel that you are wrong, and want the fight to take place over there, and not here. You on the left, have your idiots, just as we on the right have ours. No one can predict the future, and only time will tell who is right. I only wish the paper would enforce it's own rules on comments. I believe there is supposed to be one about personal attacks, and this one seems to be overlooked at times. Name calling should not be allowed from either side. "

Duh wrote on May 28, 2007 10:12 AM:

" Hey Billie- didn't the Libtard's explain this to you? All those distasteful little actions by the scumbag Jihadists- IS OUR FAULT! Didn't you know that! Yeah! We had the audacity to actually remove the peaceful, open, democracy that Saddam had worked so hard to create- so we could steal the Iraqi oil (which the Iraqi's still own and profit off of) and that angered the average-Joe in the Islamic world! Yeah! That's right! The average-Islamic-Joe(not a terrorist) was just minding his own business when we invaded that Xanadu known as Iraq. Well! That was just too much for him! So he decided to do the most obvious and logical thing that he could do! You know! He decided to launch gorilla attacks on the American's (and any Muslims that got in his way) by using, children, women (sometimes pregnant) and any innocent bystander as human shields! And so what if he decided to load a few car's down with a couple of hundred pounds of explosives and use an innocent woman and her child as decoy's to get through the check points. So what if he decided to base his attacks out of a school or childeren's hospital! Who cares that he decided to blown up dozens of innocent Iraqi's at a heavily congested market or cafe in the heart of Bahgdad! What's the big deal that he decided to systematically mutilate and torture his fellow Muslim's that he suspected of aiding the Americans? Hey! That's all irrelevant- damn it! The point is- WE ARE THE REAL TERRORIST'S HERE! He was just an average-Islamic-Joe (not a terrorist) who just decided that this was the most justifiable course to take! And we greedy, imperialist American's (who wanted the oil that the Iraqi's still own) pushed him in to acting that way! Can't you see that WE are the real terrorist in all of this! Doesn't that make perfect sense! Well I don't know what it will take to convince you! Maybe Duh-mass or one of his Libtard buddies could explain this to you! It's really quite simple! BOOSH AND AMERICA ARE BAD! "

Fascism? wrote on May 28, 2007 11:07 AM:

" Ignorant, blind and unquestioning allegiance to your government borders on fascism. If that cause is unjust, it probably borders on stupidity or ignorance. Look up the definition of fascism, and you will probably see a picture of Doh Doh nut job. Monkey Boy depends on morons like him, but I'm happy to report that his numbers are dwindling. Gotta go, have to check the latest poll numbers to see how much further the Monkey Boy by has slipped in his numbers. But I'll be back to give the Doh Doh nutcase some more of it. I'll be sure to give him an update on Monkey Boys numbers. Doh Doh keeps downplaying the polls, but if by some miracle, Monkey Boys numbers were to go up, he would be the first one to start clamoring about it. Come on out of Mommy's basement, Doh Doh and get some fresh air. You certainly could use it. "

Doh! wrote on May 28, 2007 11:12 AM:

" OH LOOK BOO! Our evil American troops are at it again! Look's like they just rescu...uh I mean... abducted 42 Iraqi civilians from an Al Qae...uh I mean... a Freedom Fighters...hide out, and ended the tortu...uh I mean...education that the Freedom Fighters were giving to the civilians! Here's the crux of the story: - "U.S. forces rescued 42 Iraqi civilians Sunday from an Al Qaeda hide-out northeast of Baghdad, including some who showed signs of torture and broken bones, a senior U.S. official said… U.S. forces previously have found a number of houses used by Al Qaeda for detention, including some where prisoners showed signs of torture. But the hide-out raided Sunday in Diyala province was the largest, Caldwell said in a telephone interview. He declined to be more specific about the location, citing security reasons… Caldwell said a tip to U.S. forces from Iraqis in Diyala led to the rescue operation." THOSE DAMNED IMPERIALIST AMERICANS! Read the whole story here: http://tinyurl.com/35off4 "

Doh wrote on May 28, 2007 1:20 PM:

Doh wrote on May 28, 2007 1:29 PM:

" The post by: Duh wrote on May 28, 2007 10:12 AM: explaining the innocent terrorists is actually my post! I got so carried away pretending to be Duh-mass that I mistakenly used his name! eewww! Now I have to go shower! "

Doh wrote on May 28, 2007 1:40 PM:

" How shocking, Duh-mass! - "Captives at Guantánamo Bay were chained hand and foot in a fetal position to the floor for 18 hours or more, urinating and defecating on themselves..."- AAAHHHH!!!!! OH THE INHUMANE CRUELTY!!!! AND OH NO!!! -"barefoot detainee shaking with cold because the air conditioning had bought the temperature close to freezing. On another occasion, the air conditioning was off in an unventilated room, making the temperature over 100 degrees"- Well that sounds like a typical 24 hours in for our grunts in the desert! Without the fleas, scorpions and sand spiders! UMMMMMM.....I still don't see the torture Libtard. "

Doh wrote on May 28, 2007 1:44 PM:

" Hey Duh-mass! Would it be ok if we strapped some suicide bomb vests onto those poor terrorist prisoners and randomly detinated them when any of them didn't respond to interrogation? Wouldn't they feel at home in those vests? Wouldn't that be okay? "

Doh wrote on May 28, 2007 1:47 PM:

" The terroists can torture and kill, but Daddy Duh-mass says they are such fragile little blossoms that they can't bear to take the nasty practices that they inflict on innocent people. Boo hoo, Duh-mass. Boo hoo. "

a NEW RECORD wrote on May 28, 2007 2:00 PM:

" More Americans were killed this month than any month since this immoral war began. And things are getting better, right? Oh well, I guess were all safer now, and Doh Doh can keep posting from the safety of his Mommy's basement about how great everything in Iraq is going. "

Duh wrote on May 28, 2007 2:03 PM:

" The U.S. government also sponsored the sexual assault of Iraqi boys at Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq, and has video of it. "The worst is the soundtrack of the boys shrieking," Seymour Hersh, America's top investigative reporter, said. Hersh says there was "a massive amount of criminal wrongdoing that was covered up at the highest command out there, and higher." "

There goes Doh Doh again wrote on May 28, 2007 2:13 PM:

" Accusing someone else of hiding behind another name. And what's this man on man obsession with you, Doh Doh? As Shakespeare said, methinks thou doth protest too much. I think there is something going on with your lack of masculinity there, fella. You seem to bring that up a lot, so it must be something on your mind. "

Hey Duh wrote on May 28, 2007 2:39 PM:

" I agree with you, just because the terrorists torture, doesn't mean we should do likewise. I thought we were above that. With people like nasty mouth on here, it seems to be more about revenge. We should be about honor. The only Republican candidate for President who seems to be against torture is John McCain. I sort of think he has earned the right to speak about this issue. "

Billie Brant wrote on May 28, 2007 2:42 PM:

" To Just for the record- Your post was a much needed reminder that we need to tone it down a little. I've been guilty of " going over the top" myself once in awhile, usually in the heat of the moment. I try to get my point across without being too offensive, but sometimes the "spirit is willing but the flesh is weak"! I'm not saying I won't screw up again when my anger gets the better of me, but I will try to be more aware of it. "

Duh wrote on May 28, 2007 3:43 PM:

" The chairman of the joint chiefs of staff doesn’t even know how many troops have died in Iraq. "When you take a look at the life of a nation and all that's required to keep us free, we had more than 3,000 Americans murdered on 11 September, 2001. The number who have died, sacrificed themselves since that time is approaching that number," General Pace told CBS Early Show's Harry Smith on Memorial Day. In fact, more than 3,440 troops have been killed in Iraq, while fewer than 3,000 died on 9-11. Any person with a rudimentary moral sense would see that the troops are mere pawns in a murderous game. As Rummy said, they are "fungible." Look it up. You Bush-worshipping fascists sacrificed U.S. moral standing for utter failure and incompetence. That must make you so proud. Why don't you put another sticker on your car and brag about it? "

boo torture wrote on May 28, 2007 4:24 PM:

" To Doh! actually, this is funny..another article came out in the paper today, also, if you looked through the whole paper. The headline is McCain, alone, throws cold water on idea of torture, and is written about the Republican presidental candidate debate. The candidates were asked how aggressively they would interrogate suspects, taken hostage during a terrorism scenario. McCain, the only Republican presidental candidate who has actually been a tortured POW, stated, "It's not about the terrorists, it's about us. It's about what kind of a country we are." He got no applause. All the other Republican candidates got tremendous and enthusiastic applause for their answers, showing what the majority of Republicans stand for: torture and inequality. All the other Republicans answered they would do anything they needed to get the info, including advanced interrogation techniques. They also stated water-boarding, or hurting people's bodies by endangering them and flushing their body systems with water (very painful), was not considered torture. Mitt Romney actually stated, "We ought to double Guantanamo Bay!" The majority of the old, current, new and upcoming Republican party stands for torture. They claim that it is okay to use torture, or enhanced interrogation techniques, on a person if they have information that is important, or if the person has taken part in terrorist activities. What is wrong about all this, Billie and Doh, is that we have not given the Guantanamo Bay detainees the right that we "supposedly" live by as our standard: that everyone is equal and everyone deserves the right to a fair trial...and innocent until proven guilty. By torturing people and saying it is okay, we are saying they are less equal than we are. We are also giving them the idea and right to torture us, because we are torturing them. It is stooping to their level and showcasing us, as "U.S. violates human rights." I don't think it's okay to give them that right. Just because other countries do it doesn't mean that we have to. I understand that they are bad people and that they want to hurt the U.S. But it is one thing to give them a fair trial with possibly life imprisonment or death sentence, which is what they should be doing instead of hiding them in war camps, like they are doing. However, the way we are going about this is messed up, just like the cause of the war. Instead of doing the above, they are torturing mass amounts of people from different parts of the world, and not giving them a fair trial, or treating them like humans. Strangely, too, is that this camp is in Cuba. How weird is that? We don't know what's going on down there. If the Republicans remain in power after the next election, the United States may lose its democracy and beacon of light. We will be branded as torturers, and human rights violators, which gives other countries the right to try to police us. We have a lot of good people in this country. However, we need a leader with good morals...right now, everything good we represent is disappearing. We are supposed to be doing good things, not the other way around. Or is it all lost? "

Doh wrote on May 28, 2007 5:28 PM:

" To Hey Duh- Let me explain something to your, slow burn: When we torture- it's to extract information and to hopefully save lives. When your scumbag Al Qaeda cockroaches torture- it's to instill terror into the psyche of the free world. By your stupid-a55 logic- our soldiers should never return fire to the enemy! After all- doesn't that make us just as bad as they are? Aren't we above that? Shouldn't our troops just take the bullet? "

Doh wrote on May 28, 2007 5:32 PM:

" To boo torture- Yeah! McCain doesn't like torture because he was tortured. See! Torture works! "

Doh wrote on May 28, 2007 5:40 PM:

" I'm sorry about your friend Billie. He sounded like a great guy. I have a special place in my heart for you Vietnam vets. The treatment you guys got from a segment of this country was pathetic and embarrassing! Have a peaceful Memorial Day evening Billie. And Thank You! "

Doh wrote on May 28, 2007 6:02 PM:

" To Duh-mass ..."In fact, more than 3,440 troops have been killed in Iraq," And no other war in modern history of this scale and magnitude has had that FEW casualties! Which is a fitting testament to the awesome skill and professionalism of our amazing Armed Forces! And you, Duh-mass, want to make their sacrifice pointless and in vain, by pulling their brothers-in-arms out before they can complete their mission! PATHETIC! "

The Daily KOS turns against Cindy Sheehan! wrote on May 28, 2007 6:17 PM:

" "Good Riddance Attention Wh*re" - by CindySheehan Mon May 28, 2007 at 09:57:01 AM PDT "I have endured a lot of smear and hatred since Casey was killed and especially since I became the so-called "Face" of the American anti-war movement. Especially since I renounced any tie I have remaining with the Democratic Party, I have been further trashed on such "liberal blogs" as the Democratic Underground. Being called an "attention wh*re" and being told "good riddance" are some of the more milder rebukes." CindySheehan's diary http://tinyurl.com/2vkcp8 HEHEHEHEEEE Courtesy of Doh! "

Billie Brant wrote on May 28, 2007 6:47 PM:

" To boo torture- I have never gone in for wholesale torture. Never! But, if the harsh interrogation methods approved by our government can save perhaps thousands of American and our allies lives, I'm not against that. I'm not talking about pulling out fingernails, electric shock and potentionally life threatning techinques. Put a little fear into them though!... I disagree with your assertion that by using some of these methods WE give them the idea as you put it, it's ok to torture us. Boo, they don't need us or anyone else to justify their torture. They live for it! When was the first and last time you've seen any of us( USA) post on the internet video's of the torture and beheadings of prisoner's? The answer- never! These jihadists don't need an excuse to torture and kill! It's merely another tool in their arsenal. They get off on it!... Because of the stupid, insesitive actions of a few at Gitmo, this whole issue has been blown out of porportion,just as the terrible and inexcusable actions of a few in Vietnam seemed to label our soldier's as "baby killer's" These kinds of misfits should have NEVER been in the military to start with, gave the soldier's then and now a huge black eye! Atrocities have been committed by soldier's in every war since wars have been fought. Is it right? Absolutely not! It also isn't right to paint the majority of soldier's with this brush either. Do you have any idea how many times my husband who was an honorable warrior had this "baby killer" label thrown at him? Usually the unfortuate jerk who made the mistake, found himself on the wrong end of a massive fist that knocked him flat with one punch! After getting out of the hospital where he spent 6 months healing his wounds and learning to walk on artificial legs, one of the first things he encountered was a protest against the Vietnam War. Some dude stuck his face in the car while he was stopped at a stop sign and yelled" They're killing all the women and babies in Vietnam"! He was told ONCE to get the F out of his face! The guy was smart enough to retreat after seeing the look on Toby's face! He shouldn't retaliate with fists you might say. BS! His honor was insulted and he was NOT going to put up with it. I'd say he earned the right to defend it! I doubt very seriously that we are torturing massive numbers at Gitmo as you think. With the whole world watching now, you really think that's the case? The stuff that went on there shouldn't have, but it did and many of those responsible have paid the price as they should have. That mess has been cleaned up. They have decent facilities, meals, medical attention,prayer rugs, copies of their Koran. Do THEY treat our prisoner's as well? No way! These people have no respect for life. You can see they hold even the lives of their own very cheaply by the wholesale sacrificing of their women, children as human bombs. You can not reason with these people!!! Are we to sacrifice our own by being completely honest and above board with an enemy who has no honor? Oh yeah! We were above it all we'll tell them as they saw off our heads. That's the ticket! Maybe they will take that into consideration and kill us quickly instead of the slow way they seem to enjoy... There has to be a middle ground where our hands are't tied completly so we can win this! Idealism is a wonderful thing, but it has to be tempered sometimes with reality. Sometimes the reality is ugly. I hope some of you out there who seem to think I'm a blood thirsty fiend will re-think your opinion. I'm not , but I will defend myself and my loved ones with force if neccessary. If you choose to belive I'm a wholesale torture supporter, I can't help how you think. I stand by what I say, unpopular or not just as many of you do. "

OK now Billie wrote on May 28, 2007 7:42 PM:

" Are you willing to join the majority of the posters on here and condemn Doh for his outrageous and mean spirited posts? Notice I said condemn his nastiness and not his opinions, to which he is well entitled? Of course we all lose it once in a while, but this guy can't post with out calling names and making an a#@ out of himself. Are you ready to join the chorus in condemnation of this sort of behavior? How about a yes or a no, and no dancing around on the subject. "

Hey Billie wrote on May 28, 2007 8:01 PM:

" I think Doh Doh thinks you're one his fans. are you? "

Thank you Boo wrote on May 28, 2007 8:36 PM:

" I am a registered Republican, and have never been so disappointed in my party, as I am right now. My party has been hijacked by the extremist element, and I will sit out the next election. Sorry, but I can't imagine voting for a Democrat, and I will not vote for any of the candidates that want to perpetuate this uncalled for war. "

Voltaire wrote on May 28, 2007 9:35 PM:

" Yawn... "

Billie Brant wrote on May 28, 2007 10:52 PM:

" I do feel Doh could tone down his edginess for lack of a better word. I'll agree that most of his posts shout! So I'll go along with the poster's that would ask him to ease up on his posting style.... This is not meant to imply I disagree with a lot of the content of his posts..... By the way Doh, the fellow I was talking about concerning my visit to the cemetery today was not only my best friend, but my husband Toby. Your assumption of him was on target. He was a great guy, not without flaws like all of us, but he was one in a million! You always knew where you stood with him and he was a "what you see is what you get" kind of guy. His legacy lives on in a scholarship we established in his name at Lake Land College for the family member's of veterans. "

Chris (the original) wrote on May 29, 2007 1:52 AM:

" Doh, keep up the good work. Those on the left seem to have a problem with the fact that you are presenting them with facts. As for Boo Political Parties, my question to you is HUH? And the poster who calls our Commander in Chief, Monkey Boy, repeatedly. That just disheartens me to think that anyone would think that it is all right to call our Presdient names. Not only all right, but clever! Poor you! As for those who are concerned about our torturing, I'm not sure how you can compare what we have done to what our enemies, the terrorists are doing to their own enemies. I believe Doh mentioned the prison where they just liberated people who have been treated in horrible ways. I believe there was also some sort of manual for torture that was found that details what the enemy considers torture. They must be laughing at us everytime someone calls what out troops do torture. As for the poster who criticized our soldiers for "not being able to take the criticism." Shame on you! Put yourself in their place and have a little compassion. I attended a memorial day service yesterday and the speaker, an Iraq war veteran, spoke to this issue. He asked us not to believe all the negativity, that there are good things happening and we are doing the right thing. He ended with reminding us all that what we do in the world matters to a lot of people. He asked us never to forget that. "

Voltaire wrote on May 29, 2007 4:15 AM:

" I'll do it one better, just shut up. "

Early Bird wrote on May 29, 2007 6:14 AM:

" I was happy to see that the anti-Iraq war posters haven't given up their effort on here. I thought they might give up in frustration to the name calling, immature and rude poster. Was also happy to see Billie affirm her distaste for his style too. I wonder if the foul mouthed radical thinks he will sway people by his multiple rapid fire messages? Personally, I would think he would realize that many would be turned off by such actions. I think the message posted last evening about his getting attention was right on target. I agree with the poster saying there has to be some sort of a personality disorder going on here. I also wonder about his own service in the military, or lack of it. I did notice that he finally managed a short post that was not full of the usual venom and name calling. I was sort of shocked over that one. I was sort of surprised that none of the other posters weren't accused of being me, or that my name wasn't thrown into the mix. So I guess he is making some sort of progress in that area. If he were to start answering some of the question posed to him, others might be willing to answer his questions. Who wants to answer anything to someone who constantly refuses to answer anything posed to them? That might work better than the name calling, and childish behavior he insists upon displaying. Lastly, I also notice that he continues his sneaky habit of posting under different names, and chastises others for doing the same thing. His style is so obvious, and his attempts to disguise it fail miserably. "

Doh wrote on May 29, 2007 8:02 AM:

" Billie- I didn't realize that Toby was your husband. That gives even more poignancy to your posts. I have a brother who encountered the same ungrateful treatment when he returned to the States and it had a profound effect on him. And now, I'm seeing that same delusional hatred appearing more and more frequently on these blogs. I know how they leave me amazed and angry, but I can't even imagine how they must make you feel. You have to feel like you're in a forgein country (a communist one at that) or in a time machine back in the late sixty's. I honestly don't know how you can stomach some of these idiots. My heart and sympathies truly go out to you. Out of respect for you, Billie- and the memory of Toby- I'll tone it down a bit. I'll try to shout less, but I can't give up the name calling entirely. Because there are times when you just have to call these clowns for what they are. My wife and I took our own private visit to the cemetery this past Saturday. After shedding a few tears over the graves of a few veterans (especially a young Marine who was killed in Iraq) I was more than just a little "hair-trigger" after that. I normally don't care what people think of me, especially in a fight. But you Billie, are an exception. You have something that makes me take pause- my respect. Thank you for your posts. And thank you Toby- not just for your service to this country, but for the person of character that you obviously were. From what Billie has told us- you were a hell-of-a guy! I wish I could have met you. This country needs more people like you and Billie! "

Billie Brant wrote on May 29, 2007 8:05 AM:

" Although I agree with the "let's try to be civil" alliance, I still think Doh has made some good points to back up his side of the discussion. We must remember that BOTH sides have crossed the civilty line at one time or another on many subjects on these sites, myself included. I honestly can't say I won't again because my temper sometimes gets the better of me and I lash out, especially when the subject matter is something I feel strongly about. I'm like Flip Wilson's "Geraldine"( those of us old enough to remember her) who used to say "The devil made me do it"! Lol! I've had to eat my words many times and wash them down with a glass of humility. No doubt, I'll have to do it again at some point in time. Admitting this to my way of thinking doesn't show weakness in ANYONE,but strength. I'll try to keep my resolve and behave, but not back down from what I truely belive in. "

Doh wrote on May 29, 2007 8:15 AM:

" Thanks Chris! I enjoy being a target for the anti-war crowd. I've debated them more times than I can count and they alway's reach the same point that they're at now. When their talking points are confronted with facts- they have nothing left but unrrelated distractions like psycho-analysis of someone who actually believes we should fight terrorism. I've seen this all before. And the ones in here aren't even very good at it! I'm not going anywhere. And I know you're not either Chris. It's good to be on the same side with you. But I have to warn you- the Libtards are going to accuse me of ghost-posting under your name. So be prepared for that. It's good to hear from you Chris. Stick around buddy! "

Duh wrote on May 29, 2007 8:56 AM:

" When American does something wrong — and it does plenty wrong — we will continue to condemn it loudly. That's what responsible citizens do — as opposed to cowardly conformist conservatives. who are content to lick the mud off the boots of power. That's not to our taste, thanks. "

Billie Brant wrote on May 29, 2007 9:16 AM:

" Thanks Doh! Toby, being the passionate and intense(at times) person he could be, he would have LOVED to have met you and "cussed and discussed" many issues! He may not have agreed with you all the time and when he was enjoying a "libation or two" it was hard to get a word in edgewise! Lol! Sometimes our "discussion's" could be heard down to the main road a mile away from the house! Lol again! What I'd give to have one of those 800 decibel differences of opinions again! It's far too quiet around here now! At the same time, "Ol Tobe" as some of his friends called him would show his soft side and was not ashamed to let his friends see his tears. Above all, he was an honest and honorable man man. He could get "fightin mad" and would fight the devil himself! He always said he wasn't afraid of any man alive.In order to hurt him worse than he'd already been hurt, they'd have to kill him, and he was not afraid to die.He had already seen hell, been there and back, so Heaven was his next destination... It was something to see this big bear of a man who was so strong, who could be so tough, lie on the floor with his grandkids coloring in a coloring book, painting( he was a good artist) Minnie Mouse makeup on his 6 year old granddaughter's face for her Halloween costume or tenderly caring for an abandoned scrawny little kitten... Just so you know,he was against us going into Iraq at the time we did. That is not to say he wouldn't have approved of it at a later time. He just felt it was too quick a decision and needed more planning. Once committed though, he felt we had to stay and see it through. I'll never forget how he yelled at the TV set during the "Mission Acomplished" and "major fighting" is over fiasco! "Over" he roared, It's just starting you (expletive deleted)"!!! Nevertheless he put his full support behind the war effort . He did not want to see our troops treated in the manner they were during his time in Vietnam and he was very vocal about it....Thanks for your kind words and the decision to "tone it down a little". I know how hard it is to do sometimes myself and I've been "guilty as charged" also......So everyone out there who has called for Doh to try and be more civil, the ball is our court also! Both sides could try and keep the civilty in our posts. He's not the only "guilty party" here. "

Doh wrote on May 29, 2007 10:45 AM:

" Hey Billie- I would actually agree with Toby on the planning of this war. I don't think enough troops were used, and the ones that were, had one hand tied behind their backs- thanks to the idiotic rules of engagement. But that seems to be changing now. And contrary to the Liberals opinions in here, I'm far from being a lackey of this or any other Administration. If we had a Democrat in office right now- I would still be here defending this cause. And with any war- I take the words of the commanders and their beloved grunts in the field over any bureaucrat. That being said; I do think the over all decision to wage this war was not only necessary and justified- it was long over due. And had we not bowed to the corrupt U.N. back in 1990, we could have finished it then and there. I doubt that me and Toby would have differed on too many issues. And unlike a lot of people here- even if we did, I would have never disrespected his service to this country. Some things are still sacred in this world. "

Doh wrote on May 29, 2007 11:00 AM:

" Tell me Duh- When will you condemn the "plenty wrong" that the enemy has committed? You know- indescriminate murder, real torture (not just panties on the head) and their never-ending war against freedom and liberty around the world. That's what intelligent citizens do — as opposed to deluded appeasers who are content to turn a blind eye towards real danger. Or who refuse to even acknowledge the existence of real threats even when they see them. Well that's not to this guys taste, thanks. But no thanks! "

Shelly Kay wrote on May 29, 2007 1:27 PM:

" To Doh-while I don't usually share the same opinion as you I must say, you're posts are much more pleasant to read without the name-calling. With you earlier posts on this thread I was so busy being annoyed by the names that I wasn't able to really able to absorb the points you were making. Thank you for making it easier to understand your views! "

Answer wrote on May 29, 2007 2:07 PM:

" DohDoh, you know there was much more than panties on the head. Your repitition of same ridiculous assertion nonwithstanding. There have been many reports of physical abuse, attacks by dogs, and death of captives in US custody. I appreciate your intelligence, please don't insult mine. Our job as a great country is to set an example of the humane and legal treatment of POW. Trust me, the military agrees with me and has been drug into these abusive situations kicking and screaming. The military leaders know better, that's why John McCain is so bitterly opposed to torture. Having the moral high ground means you have to have high morals. Think about it. "

Billie Brant wrote on May 29, 2007 2:51 PM:

" I just saw online reports of two disgusting incidents concerning Memorial Day. In a cemetery in Orcas Island, Washington, 97 graves of veterans were desecrated. 46 American flags had been removed from the graves, 33 had been burned and 14 American flags had been replaced with flags with hand drawn swastika's. Swastika's!!! This horrible deed is considered a hate crime under Washington State law....In Rockland Mass. two thirteen year old boys were arrested for throwing eggs at veterans and poice officer's participating in Memorial Day services. One veteran was preparing to shoot his rifle in the traditional 21 gun salute and was pelted with eggs. These kids face felony charges also. For God's sake, what is going on here? I don't approve of bratty kids throwing eggs and I think they should be punished. The desecration of graves however, any grave is beyond despicable, it's sick! Have those kids go around town and clean the pigeon poop off all the memorials and tombstones for veteran's in their town and county for 6 months to a year and maybe they'll think twice about doing something so stupid . That would be a better punishment that jail time. They wouldn't be as apt to "brag" about their time in the "slammer" and act like the punks they are! Cleaning pidgeon poop isn't something to have bragging rights about!... However the ghouls who desecrated these graves should pay with the most prison time that's possible under Washington's hate crime law! If these creeps hate our military so much speak out like they have a pair! Don't go slinking into cemetery's under cover of darkness and try and rob the dead of their dignity and upset the family's....It will be interesting to see if and when these grave desecrators are caught and arrested if the ACLU will step in to defend them .After all they were just exercising their freedom of expression don't cha know.... Am I mad! You bet I am! Warning! I had better NEVER see anyone desecrating ANY grave period! Let the dead rest in peace! "

Duh wrote on May 29, 2007 3:24 PM:

" Obviously, I am a citizen of the United States, and the actions of the United States are my concern, not those of some other country. Our standards are not to be set by those of other countries. Well, yours are. Mine aren't. "

Question wrote on May 29, 2007 3:28 PM:

" Why is it that many of the people who want US troops out of Iraq, want US troops in places like Darfur? "

Duh wrote on May 29, 2007 5:12 PM:

" Pierre Tristam put it well: "What matters most at that point isn't such things as loyalty to country, which I think is an artificial and stupid concept that does little more than pump up the herd in brawny words. What matters most, besides loyalty to one's own, is being loyal to the moral, the civilized and the humane -- to those ethical responsibilities that are so rapidly victimized and denigrated in war, under cover of flag-waving. "Patriotism in those cases becomes loyalty's executioner. And it has. Five years after the early follies of 2001 at home and many more since at home and abroad, we're a weaker nation, more divided, infinitely less respected than in 2001, infinitely less worthy of 1776. Memorial Day indeed -- for what's being lost, and for loyalties fearfully unspoken." "

Red Lobster wrote on May 29, 2007 5:56 PM:

" You cannot compare the garbage spewwed forth by Doh to anyone else on these forums -- Doh is simply in a class by himself. He should be banned for numerous rule violations and his inability to engage in civil conversation with his or her neighbors. Billie, you lost all respect I had for you in defending this immature child. "

Holy Cow wrote on May 29, 2007 6:56 PM:

" I may have to drop my plans for additional ideas I have about Doh's profile if he keeps up with being civil. I'm impressed with him. His posts will have a lot more credibility if he keeps up with acting like an adult, which we all know he can do, as he has now proven it. I'm impressed, Doh. But I'm taking all of this with a grain of salt, until you have gone a couple of days acting like a decent person. I'm in your corner and cheering for you. "

Mike P wrote on May 29, 2007 7:01 PM:

" We are there, mistakes were made, simply picking up, and going home tomorrow, would be yet another big mismanagement, of the situation. Only having the region play a role, in the rebuilding, as the current attempts at talks are trying to do, is going to make any progress there. It is going to be a long road out, to be able to leave, and not have it be an indonesia, or lybia. Questioning and criticizing, is not treason, or terrorist mentality. If more of it was done, in the building up to the war, and not all the following blindly, more of a plan, might have been thought through, and things might be a lot different, than they are. Abu grabe, had a big impact, on bringing in more of the bad elements, placing people in charge of war prisoners, and not properly training, and leading, is the fault of those in charge. Those kinds of misteps, cause more to rise up against the occupation, and come to cause trouble. I am sure, had that and several other inappropriate actions, that proper training, and leadership, should have avoided happening, the millions of people leaving, and all the insurgents, finding their way in, would not be as wide spread as it is. We can't unscramble the egg, we have to follow through, and do better. I would call the proposed move to the United Arab Emerates, by haliburton treasonous. Why is it such a quiet story, since they announced the plan to do it. A large military contractor, that covers as many facets, of things, as they do, relocating to that country, which we denied allowing to take over the US port security, for many reasons, should ruffle feathers, and get looked into by congress. Support the troops, always, but civilains, and the press, not questioning, and just following blindly, is not what this country is based on. The only truely dumb questions, are the ones that don't get asked. Taking it for granted, things are as we are told they are, is why this has unfolded, as it has. Fear of questions, usually denotes something to hide, or isn't well thought out. I haven't seen one post on here, that says anything about where, what, and with who, do we go from here, to have a better possible outcome, than is today, or would be, if we left tomorow. We are there, now what? Poking each other back and forth with names, does what? Widening the differences, with the people, here, instead of trying to find a compromise, and not just beating the same dead horse, or mule, is contributing what? What should be done, to make anything better, or different, and less bad, should be the goal, here. Some contribute to those ideas, and some are a pro or con, broken record. The funding bill, was a compromise, which is supposed to happen in congress, when they can stop poking each other long enough. If they can finally get some business done, after half a year, there might be hope, for the extremist views from both directions, to carry on a grown up conversation, and not have all the stomping on the soap box, to get things moving foreward, and not just in circles, endlessly. "

Boo wrote on May 29, 2007 9:31 PM:

" Billie, I have to say I have never said anything bad about the soldiers, "baby killers" or such. In fact, I think the soldiers and veterans are incredibly honorable and courageous and do not hold them responsible. I do not blame them for anything and would never yell something like that. I just want to get the point across that this camp isn't a "couple" terrorists like you are claiming. It is a large number of people. They have never been given a fair trial. Some, maybe, many, may be innocent. We don't know. We are doing investigations under false pretenses. no,we can't get everything right, but some things are serious enough where you have to do it right the first time. "

Billie Brant wrote on May 29, 2007 9:58 PM:

" I'm sorry you feel that way Red Lobster, but I'm not willing to "drop" Doh just because someone doesn't agree with my choice. While you may think Doh's style was immature, I still found myself agreeing with much of the content in his posts, minus his "shouting style". I've been known to shout myself. He's shown he can post without going over the top and I for one am willing to give him credit for it as have other's here. He may backslide a little in the heat of the moment as I have done also, but as long as he is sincere and making the effort I'll back him up. So far so good. No one is perfect here. Many of us are guilty of taking our little jabs at one another...Keep it up Doh! "

Doh wrote on May 29, 2007 9:59 PM:

" Okay Answer- I'm going to say this again (with out the insults towards you) - We use "torture" to gain vital information that could save lives. The Jihadist scum use torture simply to terrorize. By your logic- U.S. troops should never-ever return fire on the enemy. Because that would make us as bad as them. After all, if they didn't fire back, wouldn't that give them the "moral high ground"? And there are plenty of "politically correct" people in the Pentagon who come out against torture. There are also plenty of politically motivated bureaucrats in that building (some of them with cosiderable fruit salad on their chest) who also imposed the idiotic rules of engagement that seriously hampered this war for four years. And the fact that John McCain doesn't like torture, because he was tortured- proves that torture works. It tends to "discourage" those who are tortured! Am I clear so far? I'm not used to doing this with a clean mouth. "

Doh wrote on May 29, 2007 10:16 PM:

" Duh - If you truly want to be "loyal to the moral, the civilized and the humane" then why in the hell aren't you loyal to the idea of destroying those who are NOT moral, civilized, and humane - the Jihadists? "

Doh wrote on May 29, 2007 10:20 PM:

" Hey Red Lobster - shouldn't you be on the other threads- Voltaire- hijacking my name with phony posts? "

Early Bird wrote on May 30, 2007 6:27 AM:

" Thank you, Doh. I appreciate your efforts. Hopefully those of the left side will too, and the debate will be much more enjoyable. "

Billie Brant wrote on May 30, 2007 7:39 AM:

" Boo, If I came across that you didn't support our soldier's I apologize, that was not my intent. There are those in this country that are denegrating them just as in the past. My earlier post about the desecrating of veterans graves in Washington State on this past Memorial Day drives this point home. While mistakes have been made at Gitmo and Abu Ghraib, I believe conditions have improved there. Everyone is watching these places. As far as getting it right the first time as you suggest,I agree. We have to get it right the first time and NOT release potentionally dangerous terrorists back into freedom so they can continue with their evil plans to destroy us. The threat is real Boo. I will admit we could do better on our own soil by tightening up security and not letting these terrorist's get into our country. We have dropped the ball on that issue as was proven on 911. I'm not advocating the wholesale rounding up and herding into camps our own citizen's as we did to loyal Japanese American's during WWII. That was and still is a matter of national disgrace. There are terrorists cells in this country though that are plotting against us and this needs to be addressed more aggressively. It would help if the moderate and loyal Muslim population here and around the world would be more vocal in their condemnation of these jihadist's. Some have spoken out against them, but not often or loudly enough. They too fear retribution from these evil doer's, so they remain passive. The Muslim citizen's of our country that are against them have a duty to speak out against them and stand up for the U.S.A. "

Billie Brant wrote on May 30, 2007 7:46 AM:

" Hey Doh, You're doing great! You're still going for the jugular and your thoughts are coming through loud and clear. Even some of your opponent's are appreciating your efforts even if they don't agree with your viewpoints.Thanks for your comments Early Bird! "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 7:50 AM:

" You're welcome Early Bird. But Billie deserves the credit. And wether people agree with her views or not- she still deserves the respect of all the posters here. Regardless of politics. Did you hear that Red Lobster? "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 8:21 AM:

" Billie your story about the little pieces-of-s#!t desecrating the graves of U.S. veterans is exactly the kind of results that theses anti-American sentiments can breed. It's a relatively minor progression from some of the bile-filled diatribes that we have seen on these very pages. And that is precisely why people need to be reminded of the FACTS about this war and the real threat that the enemy poses. It's pathetic that so many people are so clueless, that they actually think that America is the "bad guy" in all of this! And that the Jihadists are "...well...you know.. maybe not so bad after all. You know...we kind of made them do it...they don't really have any other option...they don't know any better...we should just excuse them...after all, we are big and powerful, therefore we must be the viilian in this...terrorism...what terrorism?...the war on terror is just a bumper sticker! American troops are torturing and killing "innocent civilians"! American troops are the real terrorist here!" - Don't believe me? Just look over some of the posts on these pages. Then go visit some of the L#ft*%d websites, like the daily KOS. Or almost any anti-war web site. Then tell me what the diffence is between the Jihadist's message and the anti-war crowds message. See if you can really define that distinction. Tell me if you can "un-blur" that line. "

Billie Brant wrote on May 30, 2007 8:30 AM:

" Good to "see ya" Doh! Have a great day everyone! I'll be out of commission so to speak for awhile. I have to mow this place today and it takes me about 5 hours to do it, so while I'm gone sharpen up those typing finger's and let's keep up with the debate on the term's we've enjoyed the past couple of days. "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 8:32 AM:

" Thanks for the support Billie! Your doing a helluva job too! I'm proud to be on your team! Billie, on these blogs, you're the equivalent of the U.S. Marines: "No better friend- No worse enemy- Billie Brant!" Keep it up Billie! "

Duh wrote on May 30, 2007 8:37 AM:

" People who resort to torture, and who endorse and support torture, are evil. Read Seymour Hersh's accounts about what the U.S.. government did to the young boys at Abu G. They even have recordings of their screams. I have tried to post about it twice, but the details are apparently too disgusting for the people who run this site to handle. "

Duh wrote on May 30, 2007 8:41 AM:

" The five British people were kidnapped from a Finance Ministry office by about 40 heavily armed men in Iraqi police uniforms in broad daylight Tuesday and driven in a convoy of 19 four-wheel-drive Iraqi police vehicles, according to Iraqi officials in the Interior and Finance ministries. In other words, they were kidnapped BY the Iraqi police and military. Osama bin Laden isn't training "the enemy." George W. Bush is. "

Duh wrote on May 30, 2007 9:09 AM:

" As Josh Marshall said, "Enhanced interrogation", the Bush administration's preferred newspeak for torture, appears to have been coined by the Nazi Party in 1937. There are way too many facile comparisons of whatever group or individual we dislike to Nazis. But when the shoe fits." "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 10:02 AM:

" Duh- You just don't stop with the half-truths and lies, do you? Here's a pertinent little sentence that Duh conviently left out of his "Kinapped Britons" story : - "A senior Iraqi official said the radical Shiite Mahdi Army militia was suspected in the attack." - Did you get that Duh? The kidnappers were NOT Iraqi police or army personel. THE KIDNAPPERS WERE SUSPECTED MEMBERS OF THE SHIITE MAHDI MILITIA. Now, I didn't know that George W. Bush was training the Shiite Mahdi Militia. But please folks- Read the story for yourselves - http://tinyurl.com/6m2l5 "

Answer wrote on May 30, 2007 10:02 AM:

" By Joel Seidman Producer NBC News Updated: 3:24 p.m. CT May 29, 2007 WASHINGTON - An unclassified summary of outed CIA officer Valerie Plame's employment history at the spy agency, disclosed for the first time today in a court filing by Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald, indicates that Plame was "covert" when her name became public in July 2003. So Plame was covert, had traveled overseas on official business undercover and was outed by this administration in a fit of pique. How much more do we need to impeach the unholy lot of them and start over with an honest administration that really cares about national security. Read it all here http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18924679/ "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 10:17 AM:

" I'm going to be kind to you Duh. I'm going to give you a chance to explain to everyone here, if you are unaware of the half-truths, lies and distortions that you have been reporting in your "news" stories- or if you are intentionaly doing this. The people on this thread deserve an explanation. Especially the posters on your side. Because you're destroying their credibility. "

Voltaire wrote on May 30, 2007 10:35 AM:

" LOL. I have much better things to do than play internet games with a 12 year old -- especially you. Continue as you will. "

Answer wrote on May 30, 2007 10:43 AM:

" Doh, I think Duh's point is that this is hardly improved security. You want to post only the "good news" from Iraq. I believe the more pragmatic among us would like a little balance. Security overall in Iraq is abysmal, and 30,000 more GI targets is not the solution. "

Boo public info misheld or misled wrote on May 30, 2007 10:56 AM:

" How is hurting people right or just? You say it is justified to violate human rights and equality because it saves American lives. I know that many countries have human rights violations. That doesn't make it right for us to condone it, just because everybody else does. Just because the al Qaida and others want to torture people, you do, too? To get back at them? Revenge? Oddly enough, the vast majority of the detained people are not al-Qaida, Islamic, or Taliban leaders. Researchers at Seton Hall's law school did research last year on 517 Guantanamo casefiles the Pentagon released themselves. They discovered 8 % were al Qaida and 5 % were picked up by U.S. troops somewhere. The other 86 % were handed over to us by Pakistan or the Northern Alliance for reasons that weren't all clear. Many were low-level conscripts, drafted into the service of the Taliban. None were Taliban leaders. The suspects each had a bounty of $5,000 to $10,000. So this means that the majority were given to us by other people, possibly for monetary reasons, and they weren't even leaders or people high-up that would have information. So who are these people that we captured? Do we know anything about them? The U.S. could have interrogated them and released them. What charges do they have? We don't really know. These are the only files the Pentagon released. What about the ones they haven't? Who knows how many prisoners we have taken from different countries and for what purpose? We have violated the Human Rights Code, of the U.S., and the U.N. We are no longer a civil country, if we have this blood on our hands, if we are publicly declaring we torture people and refuse to give them a trial. That is the act of cowards. Are we going to capture every al-Qaida, Taliban, Islamic, and put them in a camp, like Guantanamo, with no trials? There is something obviously wrong there if they won't even allow them a fair trial (which is a declared U.S. human right) and limited visits to lawyers. There's something rotten going on in the state of Guantanamo. "

Doh! wrote on May 30, 2007 11:00 AM:

" Hey Answer: NATIONAL REVIEW ONLINE By Byron York (Did Valerie Plame Wilson Tell the Truth? A senator’s investigation suggests the answer is no.) "When Valerie Plame Wilson swore that she did not recommend or suggest her husband, former ambassador Joseph Wilson, for a fact-finding trip to Niger in 2002, Sen. Christopher Bond took note. Wilson’s words, given in testimony before the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform, didn’t jibe with what Bond’s investigators had learned a few years earlier when they looked into the CIA leak matter. Now, we know why Bond was suspicious. On page 205 of the newly released 226-page Senate Intelligence Committee report on pre-war intelligence, Bond has posted “additional views” that address the question of Plame’s testimony about her husband’s trip, the purpose of which was to check out reports Iraq had sought to buy uranium in Niger. The evidence Bond provides in his additional views contradicts Mrs. Wilson’s version of events. SWORN TESTIMONY In her testimony before the House, Mrs. Wilson said flatly, “I did not recommend him. I did not suggest him.” She told the House committee that a 2004 Senate report, which concluded that she had indeed suggested her husband for the trip, was simply wrong. In particular, Mrs. Wilson pointed to a February 12, 2002, memo she had written, which the Senate said showed that she had suggested her husband for the trip, and claimed that the Senate had taken the memo “out of context” to “make it seem as though I had suggested or recommended him.” The 2004 Senate report to which Mrs. Wilson referred had quoted a brief excerpt from her memo. In the new report, Sen. Bond publishes the whole thing, and it seems to indicate clearly that Mrs. Wilson suggested her husband for the trip. The memo was occasioned by a February 5, 2002 CIA intelligence report about Niger, Iraq, and uranium. The report had been circulating in the intelligence community for a week by February 12, and Mrs. Wilson headlined her memo, “Iraq-related Nuclear Report Makes a Splash.”..."In addition to showing Mrs. Wilson suggesting her husband for the trip, the memo also sheds light on the timeline of events leading up to Joseph Wilson’s trip to Niger. The conventional wisdom has always been that Mrs. Wilson suggested her husband’s name in response to an inquiry from Vice President Dick Cheney about the Iraq Niger uranium story. But we learned during the trial of Cheney’s former top aide, Lewis Libby, that the vice president was briefed about the Iraq uranium matter on February 13, 2002. Mrs. Wilson’s memo was written on February 12, which seems to show that Ambassador Wilson’s trip was in the works before the vice president asked his question." Read the entire story here: -http://tinyurl.com/2ch7ws "

How "covert" was Valerie Plame? wrote on May 30, 2007 12:05 PM:

" From THE AMERICAN THINKER (May 30, 2007 By Al Johnson) "Among the documents that Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald filed in connection with the sentencing of Scooter Libby, VP Dick Cheney's former Chief of Staff, was a lengthy PDF file which purports to support the contention that Valerie Plame Wilson was a "covert" employee of the CIA for purposes of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act of 1982 (IIPA, 50 U.S.C. §§ 421-426 ). Of the 30 pages, all but three are a transcript of Plame's testimony before Rep. Henry Waxman's personal dog and pony show--the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform." .... "Therefore, the "affirmative measures" that the CIA says it was taking "to conceal her intelligence relationship to the United States" can only be those set out in the preceding paragraph: "When traveling overseas, Ms. Wilson always traveled under a cover identity--sometimes in true name and sometimes in alias--but always using cover--whether official or non-official cover (NOC)--WITH NO OSTENSIBLE RELATIONSHIP TO THE CIA" In other words, this Summary states that "COVERT" CIA OPERATIVES, LIKE PLAME, TRAVEL ON DUTY OVERSEAS USING, AT TIMES, THEIR TRUE NAMES, AND THEY ALSO UTILIZE "OFFICIAL COVER" DURING SUCH TRAVEL, THAT IS, THEY TRAVEL AS OFFICIALS OF THE US GOVERNMENT. Just how "covert" can this really be? Are we to suppose that foreign intelligence services don't keep tabs on US travelers and don't try to establish a profile for "covert" operatives? Such a scenario is no longer implausible, given the highly sophisticated nature of modern data tracking and mining technology.....So, what's the bad news? Well, the bad news is that some one is trying to pull the wool over your eyes. If this information is so readily available, count on it, Fitzgerald and the CIA lawyers all knew it, too. But they don't want you to know that there are people out there--people with real power and influence who are sworn to do justice and uphold the law--who are willing to frame a political opponent and send him to jail. That's really bad news." Read the entire fascinating story here: http://tinyurl.com/22eums Courtesy of Doh! "

A question for Doh! wrote on May 30, 2007 12:05 PM:

" In your own words, and without quoting all you sources, and hopefully in 20 words or less, explain to me exactly why we are in Iraq? "

How "covert" was Valerie Plame wrote on May 30, 2007 12:06 PM:

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 12:55 PM:

" No Answer- Duh's point was just what he said it was -"In other words, they were kidnapped BY the Iraqi police and military. Osama bin Laden isn't training "the enemy." George W. Bush is." - That's an out-right lie and misrepresentation of the facts. Plain and simple. And you know it. "

Doh- in exactly 20 words wrote on May 30, 2007 1:08 PM:

" Saddam was a documented threat, with ties to Al Qaeda and WMD development- who could no longer be tolerated after 9/11. "

Answer wrote on May 30, 2007 1:14 PM:

" Doh, you're slipping buddy. The CIA, the agency sworn to provide the intellgence according to their own documents state Valerie Plame was covert and travelled overseas as a covert agent. Your buddies in this administration compromised national security to get back at a critic. Please, if you want to perceived as a credible person, you have to call this sleazy episode for what it is, a disgusting, treasonous violation of America's national security. If you can't do that then you will be forever known as a kool-aid drinker with no shred of credibility. "

Billie Brant wrote on May 30, 2007 1:59 PM:

" To Boo and DUH-At NO TIME have I ever condoned the rape of young boys, girls, men OR women! Never! Those that inflict this type of degrading treatment on anyone should be held accountable, and pay dearly for it! Do I make myself clear on this?..IF I had a son or daughter, or other loved one in this war, and they had been sent home to me in pieces because they had been tortured in the most violent manner possible, I would have hoped they could have been saved all of that TORTURE by our "enhanced interrogation methods". You bet I would! I fail to see where being in a cold room OR a hot one( for Pete's sake they live in a land with well over 100+ degree temperatures) compares with the TORTURE these animals inflict on their captives. Our soldier's are operating in those 100+ degree weather with full gear on. Do you not think they are hot? Sleep deprivation, loud music, fear tactic's to help them "give it up" is ok by me! The waterboarding I AM UNEASY with though. That bothers me. With all the brouhaha about it, I'm not sure it's even being used now. So before you start labeling me as a blood thirsty torturer, think about it. On our WORST DAY we don't compare to these jihadists. It's a badge of honor for them to be known as torturer's. They ALL qualify for the position. It never fails to amaze me that some people will give the benefit of the doubt to these people and be so concerned about their rights, and so quick to condemn the very people who are trying to save us. It's very much like the criminal element here screaming for their rights while the victim's are often times left to hang and rattle living with the effects of the crimes perpetrated upon them. "

A question for Doh! wrote on May 30, 2007 2:00 PM:

" " Saddam was a documented threat, with ties to Al Qaeda and WMD development- who could no longer be tolerated after 9/11. " Other than some old used gas containers and hearsay attempts to find uranium, we found WMD's where? "

Answer wrote on May 30, 2007 2:12 PM:

" Experts say harsh interrogation methods are outmoded, amateurish, and unreliable. Not only is torture immoral it doesn't work. Read it all here...http://tinyurl.com/yuna8q "

Answer wrote on May 30, 2007 2:36 PM:

" Bush's Monica Problem Gonzales, the president's lawyer and Texas buddy, is twisting slowly in the wind, facing a vote of no confidence from the Senate. This article is just another example of the disregard for law and order from the most corrupt administration in US history. Read it all here...http://tinyurl.com/33qrfo "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 2:49 PM:

" Hey Boo - did Seton Hall have any thing to say about this poor innocent little terrorist? NATIONAL REVIEW ONLINE (October 25 2004) "The ACLU lost a potential plaintiff when Maulavi Ghaffar, a senior Taliban commander, was killed in Afghanistan recently. Over a year ago, Mr. Ghaffar was released from Guantanamo Bay, where he had been held for about eight months after being captured on the battlefield fighting for the Taliban. He headed home to take up where he had left off, carrying out attacks on American and Afghan soldiers. He was unrepresented by counsel when he breathed his last, so his status was not determined in a court of law, but let the record show: Mr. Ghaffar was captured as an enemy combatant, was detained as an enemy combatant, and died as an enemy combatant. "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 2:59 PM:

" Tell me Answer- did you happen to miss the official definition of "covert" in this case? - "When traveling overseas, Ms. Wilson always traveled under a cover identity--sometimes in true name and sometimes in alias--but always using cover--whether official or non-official cover (NOC)--WITH NO OSTENSIBLE RELATIONSHIP TO THE CIA" In other words, this Summary states that "COVERT" CIA OPERATIVES, LIKE PLAME, TRAVEL ON DUTY OVERSEAS USING, AT TIMES, THEIR TRUE NAMES, AND THEY ALSO UTILIZE "OFFICIAL COVER" DURING SUCH TRAVEL, THAT IS, THEY TRAVEL AS OFFICIALS OF THE US GOVERNMENT." - Just how "covert" can this really be- Answer? Using her real name? How in the hell can you "out" someone who is using THEIR REAL NAME? Please explain this to all of us! I'm dying to here this explanation! "

Duh wrote on May 30, 2007 3:14 PM:

" "Foreign Minister Hoshyar Zebari said that the government has long believed that its security forces were infiltrated by militia members. The U.S. govenment is training the security fcorces, therefore Bush is training "the enemy." We have met "the enemy," and he is Bush. "

Answer wrote on May 30, 2007 3:31 PM:

" Doh, I'm obviously going to fast for you. The CIA said she travelled as a covert agent, sometimes with official cover and sometimes with non-official cover. She may have used her name, but she was not identified as a CIA agent. She was covert, she didn't have a business card that said CIA on it. Why is this so hard for you to understand? Your administration heroes deliberately did harm to US national security to attack a critic. Why is it so hard to admit this was a treasonous act by men who have sworn to protect us? This is definitely aid and comfort to the enemy which is I believe an important part of the definition of treason. You have repeatedly called administration critics treasonous for what you perceive as giving aid and comfort to Al Queada. Yet you don't think that the outing of a secret agent charged with preventing the proliferation of WMD by senior administration officials was a treasonous act? That my freind makes you a kool-aid drinker extrordinaire! "

Duh wrote on May 30, 2007 3:35 PM:

" The solution is simple. Valerie Plame has already sworn under oath before Congress that she was a covert intelligence officer for the CIA who had worked overseas. Let's have Karl Rove testify and swear that she was not. Then we'll see who goes to prison for perjury. "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 3:36 PM:

" Where were the WMD's? Here's what the Duelfer Report says: 1)"ISG technical experts fully evaluated less than one quarter of one percent of the over 10,000 weapons caches throughout Iraq" 2)"Iraq could have re-established an elementary BW [biological warfare] program within a few weeks to a few months of a decision to do so" 3)"we cannot express a firm view on the possibility that WMD elements were relocated out of Iraq prior to the war" - There was also the "pesticides" that Saddam had hidden six feet underground in camoflaged bunkers. And let's not forget the 500 tons of yellowcake uranium that was suprisingly discovered at Al—Tuwaitha- nobody has explained that one yet. And of course nobody has been able to explain why that Iraqi envoy traveled to Niger to purchase yellowcake. And let's not forget that the Clinton Admin. cited that Iraq was assisting Al Qaeda with WMD development. Specifically VX nerve gas. But hey! Who's counting! What's the big deal right? "

Mike P wrote on May 30, 2007 3:40 PM:

" Congressional hearings, "I don't recall", "I don't remember being aware", " Not to my recollection" and many other vague denials, Ollie North, Gonzalles, and many others, repeatedly used those replies, when called to the hill. I think it comes in the prep packet, right after the subpoena. Shorter than invoking the fifth on every question, and sometimes hard to prove purgery, by verifying current recollections, or not. Much more informative, debates, and discussions, in civil manners, taking place, long overdue, thanks. Now if we could just get that to happen on local boards, councils, and at the state and federal level, think how much and well, things would get done. One thing, about here, compared to the others. No one here, is likely getting any money, from this. Not hoping to get a street, park or school named after them, for this, and not looking to climb any political ladders, on the backs of others, from anything that happens here. So civility here is great, should be expected from the elected, and appointed as well, but only removing some of the incentives, to carry on as they have been, will ease that transition. I have some renewed hope, that better than we have been given, as far as public service, is possible. Paid or unpaid, public officials should be held to a civil level of conduct, and this paper, should be one of our unbiased windows, into as many of those groups, as is relavent to the area it serves. Not just regurgitating prepared statements, and AP filler, we deserve better. "

Duh wrote on May 30, 2007 3:45 PM:

" By Scott Lindlaw ASSOCIATED PRESS October 8, 2004 WASHINGTON – President Bush and his vice president conceded yesterday in the clearest terms yet that Saddam Hussein had no weapons of mass destruction, trying to shift the Iraq war debate to a new issue – whether the invasion was justified because Hussein was abusing a U.N. oil-for-food program. Bush's response was his first reaction to a report released Wednesday by Charles Duelfer, the CIA's top weapons inspector, that contradicted the White House's main argument for invading Iraq. Ridiculing the Bush administration's evolving rationale for war, Democratic presidential candidate Sen. John Kerry said, "You don't make up or find reasons to go to war after the fact." Vice President Dick Cheney brushed aside Duelfer's central findings – that Hussein not only had no weapons of mass destruction and had not made any since 1991, but that he had no capability of making any – while Bush defended his decision to invade Iraq. "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 3:50 PM:

" Let's go over this again- Answer: Valerie Plame was "covert" yet sometimes using her REAL NAME and some times not? But as long as she didn't identify herself as a CIA agent she was still fooling the other enemy spies. Is that the "logical" argument that you're trying to advance here?!!! Who in the hell were these enemy spies- Larry, Moe and Curly? And you're going too fast for ME?!!!! "

A question for Doh! wrote on May 30, 2007 3:53 PM:

" I'm surprised that your not also quoting Dan Rather and the Wall Street Journal, we all know how reliable these and other news sources have been over the years, might also throw in a reference to urbanledgends.com. Also how come no comment about how Saddam had buried his air force under the sand for later use, I've seen the pictures on the internet. "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 3:54 PM:

" John Kerry > February 23, 1998 "Saddam Hussein has already used these weapons and has made it clear that he has the intent to continue to try, by virtue of his duplicity and secrecy, to continue to do so. That is a threat to the stability of the Middle East. It is a threat with respect to the potential of terrorist activities on a global basis. It is a threat even to regions near but not exactly in the Middle East." "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 3:55 PM:

" John Kerry > October 9, 2002 "I will be voting to give the president of the US the authority to use force if necessary to disarm Saddam because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security." "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 3:55 PM:

" John Kerry > January 31, 2003 "If you don't believe...Saddam Hussein is a threat with nuclear weapons, then you shouldn't vote for me." "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 3:58 PM:

" Senator Hillary Clinton > October 10, 2002 "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock. His missile delivery capability, his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists including Al-Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 3:58 PM:

" Nancy Pelosi > October 10, 2002 "Yes, he has chemical weapons. Yes, he has biological weapons. He is trying to get nuclear weapons." "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 3:59 PM:

" Hillary Clinton > January 22, 2003 "I voted for the Iraqi resolution. I consider the prospect of a nuclear-armed Saddam Hussein who can threaten not only his neighbors but the stability of the region and the world, a very serious threat to the United States." "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 3:59 PM:

" Hillary Clinton > October 10, 2002 "It is clear, however, that if left unchecked Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capability to wage biological and chemical warfare and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons." "

Duh wrote on May 30, 2007 4:01 PM:

" The new U.S. "embassy" being built in Iraq is as big as Vatican City. The AP says, "The fortress-like compound rising beside the Tigris River here will be the largest of its kind in the world, the size of Vatican City, with the population of a small town, its own defense force, self-contained power and water, and a precarious perch at the heart of Iraq’s turbulent future. The new U.S. Embassy also seems as cloaked in secrecy as the ministate in Rome." In other words, the Bush administration has never planned for U.S. forces to leave Iraq, no matter what happens, as I have always said. They intend that the U.S. will stay and subjugate the Iraqi people permanently. "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 4:01 PM:

" Al Gore > December 16, 1998 "If you allow someone like Saddam Hussein to get nuclear weapons, ballistic missiles, chemical weapons, biological weapons, how many people is he going to kill with such weapons? He has already demonstrated a willingness to use such weapons..." "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 4:02 PM:

" Al Gore > September 23, 2002 "We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country." "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 4:03 PM:

" Johnny Edwards > February 6, 2003 "The question is whether we're going to allow this man who's been developing weapons of mass destruction continue to develop weapons of mass destruction, get nuclear capability and get to the place where -- if we're going to stop him if he invades a country around him -- it'll cost millions of lives as opposed to thousands of lives." "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 4:03 PM:

" Bill Clinton > February 17, 1998 "We have to defend our future from these predators of the 21st Century.... They will be all the more lethal if we allow them to build arsenals of nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons and the missiles to deliver them. We simply cannot allow that to happen. There is no more clear example of this threat than Saddam Hussein." "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 4:04 PM:

" Johnny Edwards > January 7, 2003 "Serving on the intelligence committee and seeing day after day, week after week, briefings on Saddam's weapons of mass destruction and his plans on using those weapons, he cannot be allowed to have nuclear weapons. It's just that simple. The whole world changes if Saddam ever has nuclear weapons." "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 4:04 PM:

" Bill Clinton > December 17, 1998 "Earlier today, I ordered America's armed forces to strike military and security targets in Iraq.... Their mission is to attack Iraq's nuclear, chemical and biological weapons programs and its military capacity to threaten its neighbors." "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 4:05 PM:

" Dick Durbin > September 30, 1999 "One of the most compelling threats we in this country face today is the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction. Threat assessments regularly warn us of the possibility that North Korea, Iran, Iraq, or some other nation may acquire or develop nuclear weapons." "

Duh wrote on May 30, 2007 4:05 PM:

" By the way, spies use their real names all the time, when useful. For example, CIA officer Ralph McGee used his real name in Vietnam. He just never told people he worked for the CIA, obviously. Read Sidney Reilly's biography to educate yourself. "

Duh wrote on May 30, 2007 4:15 PM:

" "WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President George W. Bush would like to see a lengthy U.S. troop presence in Iraq like the one in South Korea to provide stability but not in a frontline combat role, the White House said on Wednesday. The United States has had thousands of U.S. troops in South Korea to guard against a North Korean invasion for 50 years." Fifty years! Just as I predicted, when you right wingers told me the U.S. wouldn't be in Iraq for six months. You really are fools. "

A question for Doh! wrote on May 30, 2007 4:16 PM:

" Who in their right minds would believe anything that Clinton, Kerry, or Pelosi says. I'd rather listen to the purple Giraffe that's sitting on my deck right now. "

Answer wrote on May 30, 2007 4:24 PM:

" Doh, your recycling of old quotes adds nothing to the debate nor proves anything except they were fooled (or simply fools) just like you and the rest of the populace that supported this ill planned and unnecessary illegal war. The WMD debate is over, the reasons for war were spurious, your repeated posting of snippets from the Duelfer report are not proof in any way that there were WMD. Iraq had no stockpiles of WMD, sorry, this is another example of your kool-aid affliction. "

Answer wrote on May 30, 2007 4:28 PM:

" Doh, you continue to miss the important part of the CIA document. She traveled under cover, always. Now, stay with me here, I'll slow down even further, under cover is how one travels when they are covert. If you are not known as a CIA employee, in fact you are covered by a dummy company, then using your real name when you travel has nothing to do with your covert status. It is not the publising of her name or pictures that is the problem. It was the identification of her as a CIA agent. I don't know how I can make this any more plain for you but if you don't get it yet let me know and I will try to find smaller words to explain the situation to you. "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 5:01 PM:

" Really Answer? Recycling of old quotes? Some of those quotes pre-date Bush. So we know his Administration did make this stuff up. Yes? No? And you discount "snippets" taken directly from the Duelfer Report- and instead you give more credence to second hand AP stories ABOUT the Duelfer Report? Just when did this intel change? And I'm sure your boyscout Saddam didn't move any of these weapons out of Iraq during the six month run-up to the war. Oh never! Why that's out of the question! And what about that Saddam/Al Qaeda relationship that Clinton cited. When did that change? "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 5:28 PM:

" That's your problem- Answer- your too slow. And as usual you have no grasp of the facts. Now let this sink in- slow burn- She was traveling as an official of the US Government. Are we to suppose that foreign intelligence services don't keep tabs on US travelers *especially those traveling as officials of the US government* and don't try to establish a profile for "covert" operatives? Such a scenario is no longer implausible, given the highly sophisticated nature of modern data tracking and mining technology. So just who in the hell would have been fooled by this pathetic and idiotic "covert" status? Apparently YOU! "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 6:05 PM:

" I think I need to get a life and get a job. See ya all later. Have nice lives. I apologize to all I have offended with my stupidity. "

Doh! wrote on May 30, 2007 6:16 PM:

" Tell me - Answer- what moronic country would have failed to "out" such a devilishly-ingenious "covert" assignment as that of Valerie(how's my makeup look)Plame? For any country to be that freaking stupid, it would have to be owned, operated and governed by a completely idiotic, blind, and inept bureaucracy like that of the DNC. hey.... Wait a minute! You know.....were these socialist countries???.....maybe....just maybe... "

Duh wrote on May 30, 2007 6:27 PM:

" Paul Craig Roberts, the assistant U.S. secretary of the treasury under Ronald Reagan, summed it up well: "There is no longer any question whatsoever, not a single sliver of doubt, that Americans were deceived into this disastrous war. The President of the United States lied to the American people, as did the Vice President, the National Security Advisor, the Secretary of State, the Secretary of Defense, the Deputy Secretary of Defense, the Undersecretary of Defense, as did every neoconservative in the Bush administration, think tanks, and media. "The fact that the American people were lied to and deceived does not absolve them from blame. The lie was transparent, the logic nonexistent, the true facts available and easy to discover. "America failed, because the American people failed. The American people failed, because their self-righteousness and their hubris made them easy saps for deception. "Even now after five years of a disastrous policy, Republicans cannot accept the facts about the US invasion and failed occupation of Iraq." "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 6:28 PM:

" Really Duh? -"you right wingers told me the U.S. wouldn't be in Iraq for six months" - Really? Some right-winger said that the U.S. would be completely gone in six months? No troops at all or embassy -like we have done in just about every other country that we have liberated? No kidding? What right wingers told you that? "

Answer wrote on May 30, 2007 6:42 PM:

" I admit I posted under Doh's name:--- Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 6:05 PM: " I think I need to get a life and get a job. See ya all later. Have nice lives. I apologize to all I have offended with my stupidity."--- I just couldn't take the spanking he was giving me. I can't help it. I'm just, such an idiot. Sorry everyone. "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 7:19 PM:

" Ooooooo scary Duh! Paul Craig Roberts thinks the Iraq war was based on lies! Shocker! Do you know what else this nutjob "Truther" thinks? He thinks the Trade Towers didn't fall on their own. EEEK! Can you say government conspiracy! - On September 14, 2006, he wrote: "The explanation that the three WTC buildings collapsed as a result of damage and fire is a mere assertion. The assertion is not backed up with scientific calculation to demonstrate that the energy from the airliners, fire, and gravity were sufficient to collapse the buildings. A number of independent authorities believe that there is a very large energy deficit in the official account of the collapse of the buildings. Until this issue is resolved, the official explanation is merely an assertion no matter who believes it." So tell us Duh- are you a nutball Truther too? "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 7:44 PM:

" Hey Duh- About that phony-baloney "Boy's raped in Abu Ghraib" story; New York Magazine did a fantastic report on how bogus, Seymour Hersh and his story are. Turns out that he told that story at a speaking engagement, and that's alright because Old Sy says It’s Okay to Lie (Just Not in Print) I think everyone should read this little jewel! hahaha - http://tinyurl.com/2z6wau - It turns out that the only witness to the "rape" was another prisoner. Oh that's convincing. "Many who blogged the revelation believed that Hersh was talking about multiple rapes committed by American soldiers. Nearly everyone took it for granted that Hersh had seen the videotapes himself because he’d described their horrifying soundtrack. And everyone did assume that there were in fact videotapes, which there may not be. (“Was it a video camera or a digital camera? Nobody was quite sure,” Hersh told students at Tufts later in the year.) The speech was so widely blogged that the ACLU says Hersh asked it to remove part of the video—including the sodomy allegation—from the organization’s Website, which it proceeded to do."...."Yet a more careful Hersh may not be what the world needs at this moment. Former Washington Post reporter Scott Armstrong puts it this way: Say Hersh writes a story about how an elephant knocked someone down in a dark room. “If it was a camel or three cows, what difference does it make? It was dark, and it wasn’t supposed to be there.” And nobody else had yet described it. Sometimes, says Warren Strobel, “it’s worth it for him to be wrong.” Bwwwhaaahhhhhaa! "

Answer wrote on May 30, 2007 8:12 PM:

" So now the ghost poster is posting under Answer and Doh. That makes this site pointless as an effective tool of debate. JG/TC said they were going to require registration to post and we could reserve our screen names. I asked for Answer at that time. That was more than a month ago, what happened Mr. Haas, what is the holdup? Well, I was enjoying the debate, and if any of the last posts are truely from Doh, then apparently I must have hit a nerve as the anger appears to be increasing in his last few posts. "

Duh wrote on May 30, 2007 8:27 PM:

" Defense Sec. Donald Rumsfeld: “It is not knowable how long that conflict would last. It could last, you know, six days, six weeks. I doubt six months.” Feb. 7, 2003. Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz: “There’s a lot of money to pay for this that doesn’t have to be U.S. taxpayer money, and it starts with the assets of the Iraqi people … and on a rough recollection, the oil revenues of that country could bring between $50 and $100 billion over the course of the next two or three years … We’re dealing with a country that can really finance its own reconstruction, and relatively soon.” [Source: House Committee on Appropriations Hearing on a Supplemental War Regulation, 3/27/03] All Republican warmonger lies, now documented "

Duh wrote on May 30, 2007 8:30 PM:

" So Paul Craig Roberts thinks 9-11 was a put-up job? So what? He's entitled to his opinion. George W. Bush thinks God talks to him. There's a real whack job for you. "

Duh wrote on May 30, 2007 8:38 PM:

" Bush has made so much “good progress” in his Iraq invasion and occupation that the Pentagon is now putting amputees back into combat. “In an about-face by the Pentagon, the military is putting many more amputees back on active duty _ even back into combat, in some cases,” the Associated Press wrote. “Previously, a soldier who lost a limb almost automatically received a quick discharge, a disability check and an appointment with the Veterans Administration. But since the start of the Iraq war, the military has begun holding on to amputees, treating them in rehab programs like the one here at Fort Sam Houston and promising to help them return to active duty if that is what they want.” "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 8:52 PM:

" I agree with you Answer- this site is worthless as long as posters can't be given any kind of security over their names. When will mandatory registration be required? And yeah Duh- I tend to get a little p!ssed when my name is high-jacked. "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 9:05 PM:

" pssssst hey Duh- I'm still looking for the right-winger who said that the U.S. would be *completely* gone in six months. Or the right-winger who said that we wouldn't build an embassy in Iraq. All you posted was Rumseld making predictions about how long the conflict would last. By the way- predictions that don't come true are not lies. Apparently Duh- reading comprehension is not your forte. Uhm...forte means "strong point"..."strong point"...uhmm...."sumthin yer good at"...yuk..... "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 9:09 PM:

" Really- Duh? George Bush thinks that God literally speaks to him? With a big booming voice and everything? Show me that quote- Mr. Propaganda. Please cite the wacko-leftard site that you read it on. "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 9:15 PM:

" Hey- Duh. What? No reply on my post that completely destroyed your phoney-baloney Abu Ghraib-boy-rape propaganda? "

Doh wrote on May 30, 2007 9:52 PM:

" Geeezuz Duh. Your "putting amputees back into combat" story ended with this line: - "....promising to help them return to active duty if that is what they want." - Well if it's what they want, then what's the problem? Are you trying to discriminate against the disabled? Are you trying to deprive them the right to track and stack as many Jihadist cockroaches as they want? Shame on you- Duh! And you- a Liberal and everything! Frankly, I'm more than just a little disappointed in you Duh. You wouldn't deprive a disabled war protestor from protesting would you? Then why would you want to deprive a grunt from killing and destroying the enemy? Sounds a little hypocritical to me, pal. "

Answer wrote on May 30, 2007 9:57 PM:

" Doh, we now agree on two things. The planning for the war and the need for registration to post comments. Were making progress. Now, how about agreeing that we should as a moral nation be against the mistreatment of POWs? "

Answer wrote on May 30, 2007 10:00 PM:

" Doh, my other hope is you will quit trying to defend the illegal and treasonous outing of a covert CIA agent who was working to protect us from WMD proliferation. Admit it Doh, that was a pure act of childish retribution that hurt our national security. You would have thought an "elder statesman" like Deadeye Dick would have had more self control. "

Billie Brant wrote on May 30, 2007 10:05 PM:

" Wait a minute Duh! Do you think for one minute Toby would not have gone back if he could have? You bet your sweet (deleted) he would have! At the time he lost his legs the Army would not allow it. Today's prosthetic's are so much better now than they were 35 years ago. IF these soldier's want to go and are physically able to perform their jobs why not? It kind-a sort-a says something for their intestinal fortitude and loyality to their committment to their country and their job don't cha think! What is the matter with you? Are you saying that some people with "handicaps are incapable of performing their jobs! I 'm telling you right now, if this kind of training had been available when Toby was in he WOULD have taken advantage of it! There are many kinds of jobs that need to be done in the military and yes in a war zone. This doesn't neccessarily mean they are going to be in the thick of combat! I commend these guys for NOT giving up! The only saving grace in your post is that you said the military would keep them if that's what they want. As for the disabilty check you mentioned an an appointment with the VA, Toby would have gladly given up that "fat check' to have his legs back! Some insensitive people came right out and said "You've got it made"! oh yeah1 he had it made alright! Not one day in his life without pain, but with that big fat check he had it made! Some even went so far as to suggest he was on welfare! Now, if anyone wants to get my dander up, just try saying that to me about him or any other amputee that lost a part of himself due to a war! I will not be nice OR civil about it either! While I'm at it, I'll pass this along. When the Gulf War started, Toby wrote the DOD and asked if there was ANYTHING a broken down old "tanker" could do. He was willing to go again! They wrote him back and thanked him for offering himself, but they had to decline. I founbd this letter after he was killed in the wreck. He thought perhaps he could help with some basic fundemental tank instuction. ANYTHING! ANYTHING TO HELP! He was just too old and and not in good shape. Too many physical things wrong due to his injuries, Diabetes due to Agent Orange among them. I'm telling you right now, that man, who on his knees only stood a little over 4 feet tall was a giant in my eyes and towered over all the men I had ever known in my life. So don't be questioning the military for taking advatage of these soldier's experience and their willingness to still perform their duty to their country! These are the kinds of people that make up the majority of our military, not the few misfits who do stupid stuff that seem to get all the headlines. If I pi$$ed anyone off with my "shouting" here on this subject,it's too d---ed bad! "

Duh wrote on May 30, 2007 10:16 PM:

" The Israeli newspaper Haaretz was given transcripts of a negotiating session between Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas and faction leaders from Hamas and other militant groups. Abbas described for them his 2003 summit with Ariel Sharon and George W. Bush. Here are Bush's exact words, quoted by Haaretz: "God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then He instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me, I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them." Abu Mazen, Palestinian Prime Minister, and Nabil Shaath, his Foreign Minister, describe their first meeting with President Bush in June 2003. Nabil Shaath said, "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God. God would tell me, "George, go and fight those terrorists in Afghanistan." And I did, and then God would tell me, "George, go and end the tyranny in Iraq …" And I did. And now, again, I feel God's words coming to me, "Go get the Palestinians their state and get the Israelis their security, and get peace in the Middle East." And by God I'm gonna do it.'" So God talks to George W. Bush. Which means he belongs in a looney bin. "

Duh wrote on May 30, 2007 10:25 PM:

" Bush claims he not only HEARS God, but that he also he speaks FOR God. Meeting with the Amish in Lancaster County, PA, in 2004, Bush told the group, “I trust God speaks through me. Without that, I couldn’t do my job,’’ according to the Lancaster New Era newspaper. Total whack job. "

Billie Brant wrote on May 30, 2007 10:30 PM:

" Answer, We had a friend(now deceased) who was a Japanese POW during WWII. This man at great risk to himself kept a little diary all the time he was iin captivity. If his captors had found it, he would have been killed. He showed us the diary. He also gave us a copy of it he had typed and Toby gave him one of his books. This man described what he and his fellow captives went through. Foul food, drinking water, brutality were the order of the day(s). The description of men in the hold of a prison ship packed in like sardines with no sanitary facilities, men dieing and being left there. I could go on and on, but you get the picture. Our friend's name was Bill Miner and he taught history at EIU. He wrote a book about his time in captivity using his little diary for his references... There is NO WAY that WE treat prisoner's in this way. A few misfits have done some things that shouldn't have been done that's true, but this kind of stuff, no way. With all the "human rights" groups, reporter's with their camera crews, and instant reports back here, you really think these kinds of wholescale atrocities you are accusing us of could go on indefinately. Get real! While we're on the subject of POW's why not ask our enemies where ours are? Are they being well cared for? Oh yeah, one of them was returned to us last week, dead in a river! Where's your moral outrage about that? We STILL have POW's in Vietnam for Pete's sake. Get ticked off about that! I'll bet you our people aren't getting humane treatment. The ones we are holding are being fed, clothed, and have access to their religion. Do ours? "

Duh wrote on May 30, 2007 10:33 PM:

" Bush is evil, stupid and insane. As he likes to say, he's hit the trifecta. "

Duh wrote on May 30, 2007 10:35 PM:

" How's that immoral Iraq invasion and occupation going? You trailer park conservatives think you've killed enough Americans and Iraqis yet? You American fascists figure out how you're going to continue your war-mongering on borrowed money from China with a $9 trillion national debt? "

Duh wrote on May 30, 2007 10:40 PM:

" Glance around at the "new businesses" in your local communities. What do you see? Pawn shops, temp agencies, cash advance loan sharks -- the tacky, unmistakable signs of a rotting society. Now think back over what has happened in just the last few years. We were drawn into a disastrous invasion by official lies. That war has cost thousands of lives in addition to more than $378 billion so far. And has the money been well spent? Well, a U.S. congressional report revealed contractors' failures to complete hundreds of millions of dollars' worth of reconstruction projects. But hey, as long as they're friends of Dick Cheney, who cares, right? New mobile homes -- 11,000 of them -- sank into the mud because no one in Bush's federal government bothered to find out that you can't put trailers in a Louisiana flood zone. Another $850 million of your money flushed. Easy come, easy go, eh? The airwaves are littered with the ugly ravings of religious fanatics who promise you a first class ticket to redneck heaven in exchange for a generous contribution of mere earthly greenbacks. Americans do need to think about the big checkout time, though, because new medical research shows they have significantly higher rates of diabetes, heart disease, stroke, lung disease and cancer than the English, while paying a great deal more for health care. The national debt is about to hit $9 trillion. Illegal aliens flood across borders "guarded" by Homeland Security, and then march in the streets to demand citizenship. Meanwhile, middle-class jobs march off overseas to the lowest bidder. Republican congressional leaders are as loyal to the hyper-rich as well-fed dogs. America's plutocrats need only fling open the mansion's kennel gates and say, "Fetch me some more tax breaks and corporate welfare, boys!" It turns out that in rigged-for-the-rich America, a rising tide lifts all yachts, and pretty much swamps the remainder of the fleet. That's your "great Bush economy" for you. "

Medic wrote on May 31, 2007 8:15 AM:

" Where's Osama??? Wheres the weapons of mass distruction, AKA WMD??? Show me, and I will support the war. I, however, do not and did not support a war under false pretences and neither should the rest of the country!! "

Answer wrote on May 31, 2007 10:01 AM:

" Billie my wise freind, please read my posts. I am completely outraged about the mistreatment of human beings of any nationality, including the abuse of Americans, soldiers or not. What I am not willing to do is allow American moral values be compromised because someone else is more immoral. If terrorists behead our troops we should provide good treatment. If they treat our troops well, we should provide good treatment. We are Americans! We hold ourselves to a higher standard where we respect human dignity regardless of race, religion or any other differentiating factors. Two wrongs do not make a right. Torture is illegal, immoral, and ineffective and I abhor it for any reason by any parties. Your freinds case is exactly why we should never allow our nation to start down the slippery slope of torture in any way. "

Boo Bush wrote on May 31, 2007 10:45 AM:

" We should be going after terrorists in the U.S. Not only do we have over 12 million illegal aliens and counting, the U.S. who’s so “big and bad” has let many terrorists slip through the hands, into their very country. Here’s some crazy facts: U.S. Immigration agencies tried to deport only 12 suspected terrorists from 2004 through 2006. The IRS does a poor job in identifying tax-exempt groups that may have links to terrorists. IRS personnel stated they mainly look for middle eastern names to give them a red flag, which means they are allowing individuals with terrorist connections to avoid detection. IRS in 2006 identified 93 suspect cases- all but 2 have been approved for tax-exempt status. Oh, but wait, the IRS does have a terrorist watch list, maintained by the Treasury Dept. abb. OFAC. The IRS had been putting names on the list since October 2002, and has 1600 terrorist and organization names or aliases. The Terrorist Screening Center, run by the FBI, since 2003, has over 200, 000 names suspected terrorists. To Billie: the U.S. “worst day” would probably Abu- Ghraib, where on our worst day, we humiliated and tortured people in such a mortifying way…probably the most terrible sight I have seen in my life, to make fun of humans like that. It really hurt to look at those pictures. I couldn’t believe Americans would do that and take pictures, like it was a joke to hurt people. I would say that is Americans on their worst day. However, I am not blaming the soldiers. I am blaming the Bush Administration for turning good people into bad people. Doh, rather than give me one example of ONE detainee from Guantanamo, I want to know what the MAJORITY is going through. There are hundreds that have been through Guantanamo Bay, and hundreds still there, without a trial for years. They aren’t registered, we don’t even know who’s down there. Billie, and Doh, what if it was a child that was bad or did bad things? Would you torture and abuse a child? Some of these detainees are children when they are captured. They are being told what to do just like we are. I am not saying what they are doing in other countries is right. I agree with you on that one…they are doing terrible, horrific things to people. It is not right. However, I still don’t see how it justifies us to abuse people and not give them a trial. It is like the U.S. has just lost its most valuable morals with the Bush Administration. No one even really trusts the U.S. any more. I have heard horror stories from people visiting other countries, who say that the people in other countries treat them badly. In the past, they never did. Miss USA in the Miss Universe pageant was booed hardcore for political reasons, which has never occurred. The truth is, no matter what anyone says, we never found any WMD. So the cause for Iraq war to many U.S. citizens and many other countries, has never been told or justified. We didn’t even go after Osama, we went after Iraq’s oil and Saddam: how messed up is that? We even had the chance to get Saddam, pre-9/11. We knew exactly where he was, but they didn‘t even go after him. The war could’ve been completely avoided in Iraq. We would’ve saved thousands of lives and Iraq’s entire country. We could’ve taken out Saddam, and went after Osama. The Bush Administration decided instead of going after al Qaida and the terrorists, we would go after oil, even though thousands of lives and environments are being destroyed. This may possibly lead to the end of mankind. Here’s what I really think about the war. I think that Rumsfeld, Cheney and other cronies…all together for years and years (since the 70’s) have always had the same goals: take over the world by fooling the people into it, just like the Nazis of old. I think that they wanted the oil in Iraq since the late 80’s and 90’s, with Reagan and George Bush, Sr., who strangely enough, was CIA leader during Reagan’s presidency. Anyways, these people have been “best buddies” for years. Pre-9/11, they were just waiting for a cause to go to war and make some money, especially Cheney, who jumped at the chance to endorse Halliburton, which is huge now. I think that the Bush Administration were behind 9/11...the biggest hoax on the American people ever…they sent hundreds of bin Ladins on a plane right after 9/11...The Bush Administration caused 9/11, and have been behind everything. "

Billie Brant wrote on May 31, 2007 11:54 AM:

" At the risk of being redundant, I'll say again, the techinques we use in no way would make a pimple rise up on the skin in comparison to what THEY do! I have time and time again said I don't go in for life threatning techinques. I have also said that those on our side that were guilty of clear infractions that go against our government guidelines dealing with prisoner's should be punished. I'm all for idealism.We do set higher standards for ourselves. There's also something else we need to be aware of and that's reality. We are fighting for our very lives against these radical terrorist's. To paraphrase the "know it all voice of America" Rosie, we should take into consideration the feelings of terrorist's, "Terrorist's are mother's and father's too" she said! What bull! We've seen what these mother's and father's are willing to do to their children. If they're willing to use their children in this way,what of us? We are nothing more than vermin to them and they are the exterminator's! To put it in simple terms, If one of these people were to grab one of my kids and secreted them away and I had the chance to "make him talk" I would not be worried about his delicate feelings. I'm wasting my breath though, because nothing I say will change anyone's mind. I have expressed my view on "extreme interrogation measures" but no one, no one on the other side of this is even willing to believe that those of us that choose to use these tools aren't bloodthirsty warmonger's. So I think I'll let it go and you can think what you want to of me. "

Billie Brant wrote on May 31, 2007 2:12 PM:

" As a footnote to my last post, I want to say I have not given up my opinion's or feelings on this volatile subject. I just feel it's time to move on to something else. The horse is dead! The endless rehashing of ideas and opinion's here is like riding a merry-go-round. You never get anywhere until it stops and you jump off. You know me though, I'll be back on one or more of these sites. Some will like that, some won't. Cheer's everyone! It's been interesting and thought provoking. "

Duh wrote on May 31, 2007 2:55 PM:

" The right-wingers have learned to manipulate the American public through media-generated fear. Some fears are legitimate. But even those should be examined coldly and calmly. Panic never helps anyone at any time with anything. Other fears, however, are illegitimate -- illusions spun from nightmares for political purposes, to keep the herd off balance and stampeding in some predetermined direction. Here's one way to tell the difference. Check out the national news media coverage. When it's full of stories about terrible things that might possibly maybe happen or that could possibly have already happened but didn't, you are being had. So be terrified of Saddam's invisible drone plane WMD. Tremble at the nonexistent bird flu pandemic. Cower before the cyanide subway attack that didn't happen. Shake because some guy has TB. But above all, hide under your desk and never, ever ask what happened to your constitutional rights. "

Duh wrote on May 31, 2007 3:28 PM:

" This just in — Valerie Plame, Simon & Schuster Team Up To Sue CIA For Meddling In Memoir Simon & Schuster has joined with its author Valerie Plame Wilson to file a lawsuit in the U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York against the CIA, charging that the agency is interfering with Plame's efforts to write her memoir. The suit, which names the CIA; the director of the CIA Michael Hayden; and J. Michael McConnell, director of national intelligence, alleges that the executive branch of the government is trying to stop Plame from using the dates she served in the CIA in her book even though those dates have been made public. The lawsuit is seeking a declaratory judgment that the executive branch "cannot restrain publication of previously unclassified or currently unclassifiable information documenting Ms. Wilson's dates of federal service." According to the complaint, Plame's service dates had been released by the CIA in an unclassified document and can be found in the Congressional Record and on the Web at www.gpoaccess.gov. "This is public information. The CIA can't just make it disappear," said S&S spokesperson Adam Rothberg. *** In other words, the CIA is determined to keep everything secret about the work Plame did — work the right wingers continue to insist was never secret. "

Doh wrote on May 31, 2007 3:31 PM:

" What an interesting display of logic (or lack there of) by the Left on this page. First we have the Clinton Administration make the claims that Saddam Hussein is not only working on the development and proliferation of WMD's; but that Saddam has reached a working relationship with Osama Bin Laden's Al Qaeda network, in the very development of those weapons. And the Clinton Administration backed their claims by providing the documented evidence to support their case. In addition, President Clinton went even further, and made regime change in Iraq, the official U.S. policy. Then, after the tragic events of 9/11, President Bush prudently decides that after 17 failed U.N. resolutions, (thanks to the Oil-For-Food Scam) Saddam's rogue-terrorist State with it's ties to Al Qaeda, can no longer be tolerated, and that President Clinton's policy of Regime change in Iraq, must be enforced. And after a nice long 6 month delay, (courtesy of the U.N. whose members were being paid under the table by Saddam- through the Oil-For-Food Scam) we invade Iraq, remove Saddam from power, and find- not the traditional stock piles of weapons- but plenty of evidence of an existing WMD program. Which is not surprising, because Saddam had that 6 month delay(courtesy of his pals in the U.N.) to remove and ship off those WMD's that President Clinton had warned us about. And now- after all this - Bush is the liar? Bush made this whole thing up? Bush waged a war under false pretenses? Bush is the bad guy in all of this? And why are these accusations against President Bush - logical? "

Couldn't have said it better myself wrote on May 31, 2007 4:13 PM:

" - Bush is the liar! Bush made this whole thing up! Bush waged a war under false pretenses! Bush is the bad guy in all of this! "

Doh wrote on May 31, 2007 4:34 PM:

" To (Couldn't have said it better myself): Prove it. "

Couldn't have said it better myself wrote on May 31, 2007 4:47 PM:

" Don't need to, you do it so well by yourself. "

Doh wrote on May 31, 2007 5:04 PM:

" To (Couldn't have said it better myself): Thanks for admitting that you can't prove it. And double thanks for your timely display of the lack of logic in question. Please. Keep talking. "

Duh wrote on Jun 1, 2007 9:22 AM:

" Bush is finished, and his followers now have their choice of being regarded as either corrupt little hogs or dim little morons. Although his infamy is secure in history, Bush can still do more harm to this country and the world, and almost certainly will. "

Duh wrote on Jun 1, 2007 9:32 AM:

" As Jonathan Alter wrote, "The Vietnam War and the Iraq War do have some things in common. They were both started and perpetuated by heedless, arrogant leaders unwilling to change course, as Ronald Reagan did in Lebanon, when the facts on the ground changed. They both reflected poor understanding in Washington of local culture and regional politics. They both featured the unconscionable policy of throwing good young solders after good young soldiers -- signing the death warrants of our finest in the name of foolish consistency or mindless fortitude. But like most disparate historical events, they differ in more profound ways than they resemble each other. The Vietnam War was at root a struggle over nationalism. The Vietnamese include some ancient tribes, but they are one people, determined for centuries to rid their nation of foreign powers. By contrast, the Iraq War is at bottom tribal. Our problem there is the inverse of what it was in Vietnam -- that the people have no fundamental sense of nationhood. They are three peoples (Sunni, Shiite and Kurdish) who have made it clear at the ballot box and in the streets that they can't live together. Iraq is not in danger of breaking up; it has already broken up. That's an entirely different challenge than we faced in Vietnam." "

Doh wrote on Jun 1, 2007 11:04 AM:

" Well ,well ,well. What a surprise. The windy-wacko Duh can't answer a point blank question. How did Bush lie about Bill Clinton's claims that Saddam had a WMD program and a working relationship with Al Qaeda? Oh, and see if you can answer in 20 words or less with out your usual goofball, L!btard talking-points. Hey! Look at that! I just censored myself! "

Doh wrote on Jun 1, 2007 11:14 AM:

" Hey Voltaire - Your little boy Duh has gone all potty-mouth again: - ("Bush is finished, and his followers now have their choice of being regarded as either corrupt little hogs or dim little morons.") See what I mean? I know what you're thinking Voltaire. It's kind of ironic that Duh would call anyone "dim little morons". How embarrassing for you. I guess your going to tell him to shut up, huh. "

Duh wrote on Jun 1, 2007 11:27 AM:

" The reasons for the Iraq war cited by Bush are mercurial and self-contradictory, and of no more substance than the hot air wafting out of his mouth. But the real reasons for the Iraq invasion have never changed. Bush has never dared to state them publicly. If he did, he'd be impeached and imprisoned as a war criminal. "

Boo EIT (Enhanced Interrogation Techniques) on Public Display wrote on Jun 1, 2007 11:37 AM:

" It's funny that Billie still claims the U.S. does not torture...they only use "enhanced interrogation techniques," huh? (obviously torture) And as long as it's not you doing it, you don't feel bad. As long as something doesn't affect you, you won't do anything about it. I think to say we don't do anything near the torture they do is probably true. They have incredible violence in their history of constantly trying to defend their oil, which the U.S., Britain, China and other countries have tried to take for years and years. However, we do use torture, enhanced interrogation techniqus or whatever you want to call it, and it is still incredibly bad, such as the water boarding. It isn't right in any religion, in any country...if they tell you it is, they are lying. So for your logic, Billie, that because they torture worse in other countries makes it okay for us to do slightly less worse things and then hide them, is completely off the wall. What if the U.S. had your children obtained because they thought they were terrorists? Later, they discover they didn't have anything to do with it. But would you want people (from any country) to torture your kids? We have to stand up for what we believe is right and wrong. If we don't...if we condone torture publicly...we are just as bad as other countries that torture. We are expressing that it is okay to torture- we do it ourselves!!! And we will probably only get worse and more barbaric and blood-thirsty. "

Doh wrote on Jun 1, 2007 11:49 AM:

" Ok Duh-M*55 that was 59 words not 20. A few days ago you demonstrated that you lack reading comprehension skills. Now we have to add simple math skills to the list. I'll give you another chance to answer the question. I'll even leave the math restrictions out: How did Bush lie about Bill Clinton's claims that Saddam had a WMD program and a working relationship with Al Qaeda? "

Duh wrote on Jun 1, 2007 2:30 PM:

" From ThinkProgress: Report: In Meeting, ‘Wild-Eyed’ Bush Thumped Chest While Repeating ‘I Am The President!’ Georgie Anne Geyer writes today in the Dallas Morning News about President Bush’s strange behavior during a recent meeting with “[f]riends of his from Texas.” But by all reports, President Bush is more convinced than ever of his righteousness. Friends of his from Texas were shocked recently to find him nearly wild-eyed, thumping himself on the chest three times while he repeated “I am the president!” He also made it clear he was setting Iraq up so his successor could not get out of “our country’s destiny.” This is the second time in recent weeks that accounts have surfaced of Bush lashing out or “ranting” in private meetings when responding to criticism of his Iraq policy. Chris Nelson of the Nelson Report offered a similar account earlier this month: [S]ome big money players up from Texas recently paid a visit to their friend in the White House. The story goes that they got out exactly one question, and the rest of the meeting consisted of The President in an extended whine, a rant, actually, about no one understands him, the critics are all messed up, if only people would see what he’s doing things would be OK…etc., etc. This is called a “bunker mentality” and it’s not attractive when a friend does it. When the friend is the President of the United States, it can be downright dangerous. Apparently the Texas friends were suitably appalled, hence the story now in circulation. Like the tearful House Minority Leader John Boehner (R-OH), Bush needs to channel his bottled up emotions towards a more worthy end — winding down the war in Iraq rather than defending the status quo. "

Doh wrote on Jun 1, 2007 3:09 PM:

" Okay Duh - I'll give you (yet another) chance to answer the question: How did Bush lie about Bill Clinton's claims that Saddam had a WMD program and a working relationship with Al Qaeda? "

Duh wrote on Jun 1, 2007 3:27 PM:

" Modern Republicans are complete strangers to reality. The GOP rides on in the land where wishes are horses, claiming that Democrats "want" the U.S. to fail in Iraq. It is completely irrelevant what anyone "wants" to happen in Iraq. Iraq is a disaster, and has been since shortly after Bush mounted his invasion based on lies. Wishin' and hopin' and prayin' have no effect on reality. But the GOP has to claim that Democrats' magical wishes are somehow impeding "victory" in Iraq, because Republicans are responsible for every one of the horrifying problems this nation faces. "

Duh wrote on Jun 1, 2007 3:50 PM:

" "Today, a little boy in Baghdad got to attend school in his freshly painted schoolhouse for almost a half-day before classes were cancelled and his leg was blown off while he was walking home. Now, in other good news from Iraq sponsored by the USA...." "

Why dont wrote on Jun 1, 2007 3:56 PM:

" Duh and Doh stop taking up valuable space here and meet in person. None of us are interested in your crapola. Meet in person and get it all off your chests. Or shut up and let others speak here. "

Billie Brant wrote on Jun 1, 2007 3:59 PM:

" You better do a little more research on Vietnam Duh. You stated " The Vietnamese includes some ancient tribes but they are one people determined for centuries to rid their nation of foreign powers". Oh yes, there is a tribe of people in Vietnam called the Montagnard's, the indignenous hill people of central and South Vietnam. Believe me Ho's Vietnamese do NOT and the vietnamese of today do NOT consider these people as "one people" as you put it. They have been persecuted by the Vietnamese for years and years and still are to this day! The Montagnard's were on OUR side during the war are fought loyaly and fiercely for us. They are still hunted down like dogs! One of our dearest friends( Coles County resident) worked closely with these people and said not only were they fierce warriors, but the most honest and trustworthy people he had ever encountered. For all they did for this country and to have us leave them hanging AFTER WE told them we would help them is a shameful chapter our government would like to forget,just as the issue of our POW/MIA's still there. So you see not ALL the "tribes' of Vietnam were in this determination to rid themeselves of foreign poweres. the Vietnamese would like to wipe the Montagnard's off the face of the earth!.Learn a little more about Vietnam! I had a good teacher! I don't go along with EVERYTHING our government has done or IS doing foreign and domestic. We are not a perfect nation, no nation is. Still we have the best form of government ANYWHERE even with all it's faults...As far as you accusing me of being a torture supporter, you go ahead and close your little mind and don't look at what I've really said. Extreme measures I don't go in for at all. I'm not suggesting we use thumbscrew's or the Spanish Inquisition techinques, or burn them with cigarettes, and that sort of thing. BUT, when it comes down to saving our sons and daughter's I AM more concerned about them than I am about the sensitive feelings of terrorists. If that makes me evil personnified, go ahead have at it! I have lots of company! Of course I wouldn't like it if they had my kids. What a stupid thing to suggest. Who would? But I'll tell you this if they did have them and I had a chance to interrogate them myself I wouldn't worry about smacking them around a little to make them open their mouths! We can discuss this until the cows come home and NO ONE is going to change their outlook on it. So have your fun, and use my name as the essence of evil. While I'm at it, I approve of the death penalty in this county for some of the most heinous crimes too. Add that to your list of my sins. I assure you Duh, I'm not going to lose any sleep over your opinion of me. "

Duh wrote on Jun 1, 2007 4:04 PM:

" • Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, to U.S. troops in Aviano, Italy: "It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months." • Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz, in a speech to the Veterans of Foreign Wars: "The Iraqi people understand what this crisis is about. Like the people of France in the 1940s, they view us as their hoped-for liberator." • Vice President Cheney, on NBC's Meet the Press: "I think things have gotten so bad inside Iraq, from the standpoint of the Iraqi people, my belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators. ... I think it will go relatively quickly, ... (in) weeks rather than months." Now that those particular Republican lies have long since been exposed, tell me, right wingers, how long you expect "victory" to take in Iraq? We've had several years of "good progress" there, according to your Monkey King. When do you think we'll see you glorious "victory?" Thirty years? Fifty years? Bush seems to be pushing for the latter now. Or is it just that the "the next six months are crucial" -- as every six month-period has been since 2003, according to Republican liars? "

Doh wrote on Jun 1, 2007 4:25 PM:

" As the last five U.S. brigades arrive in Iraq, and before the troop surge has had a chance to fully assert itself; back here in America the anti-war Democrats have deemed the new strategy to be a predetermined failure. For the them, the war was never "winnable" (in a moral sense) because it was a Bush mounted invasion based on lies. And as the realities and reasons fade from memories, the embolden Far-Left, armed with their increasingly unscrupulous talking points, deftly tap-dance around the 800-pound gorilla in the room: How did President Bush lie about Bill Clinton's claims that Saddam Hussein had a WMD program and a working relationship with Al Qaeda? "

Billie Brant wrote on Jun 1, 2007 5:17 PM:

" Please excuse the typo's in my last post. Sometimes when I get fired up I get careless. Duh, I am not going to debate you anymore on this issue. You go back and read what I've said and do it carefully. I even mentioned the waterboarding techinque bothered me. I think you have "selective reading" and your hearing probably suffers from a related malady. If you knew me at all you would know that I'm not a bloodthirsty person. I have much compassion for many people, issues, people with personal problems, people down on their luck and all manner of social problems. I do not have these deep feelings toward evil people who wish nothing more than to destroy us and who think nothing of using any and all methods( which make ours look like a Sunday school picnic) to obtain their evil goals. People who want to force their ways upon us and are willing to kill us if we don't conform to their perverted view of Islam. They will do anything, anything to do this. These people are global in their quest..You can not reason with them. All the talking in the world will not change their attitudes or their desire to dominate or kill us. As a mother and grandmother, I put my family first and I would fight the devil himself. Our country is our family in a broader sense. I feel the same towards her.I put these evil people in the same catagory as child molester's. You can't "cure" either. So as I said earlier, the horse is dead! Quit beating it. You've made your views perfectly obvious to me and other's on here, and I have also. We need to agree that we disagree and let it go at that. Have a good day. I'm going to go and watch my granddaughter graduate from CHS tonight. I need something happy to think about and participate in. She earned her diploma and I'm going to help her celebrate her accomplishment. "

Doh wrote on Jun 1, 2007 5:50 PM:

" Shake the dust of this board from your shoes Billie. Enjoy tonight. And congratulation's to you and your granddaughter! You must be very proud! "

Rotty wrote on Jun 1, 2007 6:05 PM:

" Dear Duh-mass, your coping & pasting brings nothing to the table, to add to the discussion. You've grown so predictable that most are now skipping over your posts. Please tell me something - Are you going after the Most Libtarded Championship? If you are, you definitly get kudos from me - Congrats! What's next? The Koolaid or the Sh!tstirring Championship? Keep up your great work, you are a true champion, Duh-mass! "

Billie Brant wrote on Jun 1, 2007 10:37 PM:

" Excuse me Duh, my answer to the last the post dealing with my being a torture supporter on this part of this site should have been aimed at Boo since he wrote it. However I do know you support his thoughts on this also. I'll have to be more careful in my reading. I've made a mistake in referring to the wrong person so I'll "fess up " to it. Good night. "

Billie Brant wrote on Jun 1, 2007 11:05 PM:

" Thanks Doh! She is a good kid and I AM very proud of her! Grandpa would have been too. Wish he could have been there to see it. She accomplished something I didn't. She graduated from high school. I FINALLY took and passed my GED a few years ago at the age of 55. To all the young people out there: Please get all the education you can, learn all you can, AND get involved! While I don't agree with everyone that posts on here, at least they are interested in the world around them and express that interest.Apathy is a disease we can't afford to let turn into an epidemic!... I have two daughter's one of whom is a college graduate. My older daughter will graduate from the University of Oregon on June 16th at the age of 46. We are never too old to learn. Congratulations to all the CHS graduates. It was pointed out in tonight's ceremonies that one of the graduates couldn't be with his class mates. He is now serving in the armed forces of the United States of America. He got a thunderous round of applause! "

Doh wrote on Jun 2, 2007 12:20 AM:

" Billie, you apparently did a fantastic job raising your daughters. You have much to be proud of! Congratulations on a job well done. I have got to tell you Billie, education or no education, you've got more commonsense than the majority of posters you're debating against. In all the years I spent in college, I can't tell you how many educated idiots I've encountered. As a matter of fact, I think some of them are posting on this very blog. It was great to hear that the audience gave such overwhelming support for the young man who joined the Armed Forces. It proves that the average American deeply repsects and admires our Military personnel. Unlike the social outcast's in here who view our troops as terroist's, torturer's and murderer's. "

So Rotty wrote on Jun 2, 2007 8:35 AM:

" Does you same message go for Doh? Following your logic, it would seem that Doh should do the same thing you are advising Duh to do. Well? "

Hmmmm wrote on Jun 2, 2007 9:21 AM:

" Does anyone think Bush will take his family and close staff into a bunker in his final days, like a certain German. He may be losing it. I hope not, because look at who we would get if he does go bananas. "

Duh wrote on Jun 2, 2007 9:35 AM:

" Some American friends of mine were dining in a restaurant in Italy a year or so ago. As they rose to leave, all the people in the restaurant burst into applause. My friends knew why, and could name the man responsible for that ugly reaction. George W. Bush is loathed by the people of EVERY OTHER NATION ON EARTH. How, precisely, do you tighty righties explain that? "

A Voice of Reason wrote on Jun 2, 2007 10:08 AM:

" Since when has it become a war crime to fight terrorists who are trying to kill us? Instead of hunting down terrorists all over the world, we have drawn them to Iraq where we have been able to eliminate thousands of them as well as bring democracy to Iraq. As far as WMD are concerned, a former general of Saddam's said that they did have them, but shipped them to Syria in the few weeks before the war. Strange that the mainstream media did not report that. "

Duh wrote on Jun 2, 2007 10:33 AM:

" Ask yourself, who would be so evil as to supply arms to Iran? The answer is the United States of America, silly! *** AP: Iran Gets Army Gear in Pentagon Sale Tuesday, January 16, 2007 By SHARON THEIMER, Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON — Fighter jet parts and other sensitive U.S. military gear seized from front companies for Iran and brokers for China have been traced in criminal cases to a surprising source: the Pentagon. In one case, federal investigators said, contraband purchased in Defense Department surplus auctions was delivered to Iran, a country President Bush has branded part of an "axis of evil." In that instance, a Pakistani arms broker convicted of exporting U.S. missile parts to Iran resumed business after his release from prison. He purchased Chinook helicopter engine parts for Iran from a U.S. company that had bought them in a Pentagon surplus sale. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents say those parts did make it to Iran. *** "

Duh wrote on Jun 2, 2007 11:35 AM:

" Bush has ADMITTED that Iraq had NO WMD. Anyone who still says otherwise is therefore either completely uninformed, or a warmongering liar. Here is the transcript, from Aug 21, 2006: "BUSH: Now, look, I -- part of the reason we went into Iraq was -- the main reason we went into Iraq at the time was we thought he had weapons of mass destruction. It turns out he didn't, but he had the capacity to make weapons of mass destruction... You know, I've heard this theory about, you know, everything was just fine until we arrived and, you know, kind of -- the "stir up the hornet's nest" theory. It just doesn't hold water as far as I'm concerned. The terrorists attacked us and killed 3,000 of our citizens before we started the freedom agenda in the Middle East. They were -- QUESTION: What did Iraq have to do with that? BUSH: What did Iraq have to do with what? QUESTION: The attack on the World Trade Center. BUSH: Nothing, except for it's part of -- and nobody's ever suggested in this administration that Saddam Hussein ordered the attack. Iraq was a -- Iraq -- the lesson of September the 11th is take threats before they fully materialize, Ken. Nobody's ever suggested that the attacks of September the 11th were ordered by Iraq.." "

Boo Repubs Torture "Campaign" wrote on Jun 2, 2007 2:32 PM:

" I will stop discussing it, I just wanted to make sure people understand the inequality statements the government is sending by publicly stating they torture people, refusing to give these people trials, and hiding them away in camps. It goes back to the recent Republican presidential candidate debate, where all but one Republican, said they were for torture. I thought that was incredibly scary to see such a bloodthirsty crowd, as the Republicans were that night. Since the Fox news has ties to Republicans, I pondered why a Fox newscaster would ask such a question at a public convention. Then, it hit me. They are telling us because now they will not get blamed by airing it in the public. Not only that, they are desensitizing Americans to torture, and saying it is okay. The reason why they came out with this was so that people will simply just accept it. SO that we cannot fight for our right to a trial, and we may even get tortured for not "agreeing" with the government. And please don't call me a terrorist, cause' that's ridiculous. A terrorist is someone who wants to hurt a country, not help it. I think the Republicans are going too far with their torture campaign. We CANNOT accept torture and no trials! If we accept it, we may never get it back. "

Rotty wrote on Jun 2, 2007 3:54 PM:

" To: "So Rotty" O'Donnell & Hasselbeck were both on "The View" - It doesn't mean I can't loathe her. "

Doh wrote on Jun 2, 2007 4:25 PM:

" Well, Duh-mocrat. The fact that the people in the restaurant would hold average American citizen's responsible for the actions of the American government, should be the first indication that those particular Italians are, simplistic, narrow-minded, idiotic morons, who seem to have an incredibly short memory of their country's not-so-little part in aiding and abetting two of the most murderous tyrants in human history. Or have they forgotten about their proud fascist legacy named Benito Mussolini and his good friend Adolf Hitler? And you Duh-mocrat- seek nothing less than the love and admiration of these hypocritical morons? My goodness! I understand that Al Qaeda really frown upon us too. What should we do to get on the good side of all those peace-loving Jihadist's? Maybe we could all just convert to radical Islam today. Tell ya what. You first! I really think your posts are starting to get even *more* ridiculous Duh-mocrat. And I didn't think that was possible! "

for Why Dont wrote on Jun 2, 2007 4:27 PM:

" There is enough room on here for everyone, so if you don't like it why don't you shut up and leave. Some of us might actually be enjoying the ongoing arguments between those two. The righties think Doh is whipping up on Duh, and the lefties see it the other way around. Go figure. "

Doh wrote on Jun 2, 2007 7:50 PM:

" First of all Duh-mocrat, I *disagree* with Bush that Saddam never had any WMD's. This is one of the many problems that I (and many on the Right) have with Bush - he rolls over far too easily. Need I remind you that the Iraqi Survey Group who conducted the search for WMD's fully evaluated less than one quarter of one percent of the over 10,000 weapons caches throughout Iraq? And do you know *why* they stopped? Because as time went on all of the weapons caches that remained unsearched had already been looted and pillaged. So how on earth can Bush or anyone else make any kind of emphatic statement on the non-existence of prewar WMD's? Post war intelligence also determined that Saddam was using the Oil-For-Food-Scam to bribe enough U.N. members so that he could re-established a biological warfare program within a few weeks to a few months of a decision to do so. And again, nobody has explained why 500 tons of yellow cake uranium were just sitting around in Al—Tuwaitha. And nobody can explain the (one hell of a pest problem) that Saddam had at Karbala where there appeared to be a very large "agricultural supply" area (located with a military ammunition dump no less) of 55—gallon drums of "pesticide" buried in camoflaged bunkers six feet under ground. More than a dozen soldiers, a Knight—Ridder reporter, a CNN cameraman, and two Iraqi POWs came down with symptoms consistent with exposure to nerve agent when they entered the bunker complex. A full day of tests on the drums resulted in one positive for nerve agent. Later, an Army Fox NBC [nuclear, biological, chemical] Recon Vehicle confirmed the existence of Sarin. But later ISG tests resulted in a proclamation of negative, end of story, nothing to see here. Yet, just like the yellow cake uranium; nobody can explain why these chemicals were there. And this brings us back to my original question to you: How did *Bush* lie about WMD's and a Saddam/AlQaeda connection, when those accusations were originally stated by Bill Clinton? I'm still waiting for that answer Duh-mocrat. "

Rotty wrote on Jun 2, 2007 10:04 PM:

" Oops! lol To: "So Rotty" Just in case you need it spelled out with crayons, when I said: "It doesn't mean I can't loathe her.", I was refering to Rosie O'Donnel. Sorry, Libtard. ;) "

OMG! wrote on Jun 2, 2007 10:41 PM:

" Don't you people have lives? Dogs to feed or kids to raise? I wish I had your time to waste. "

Doh wrote on Jun 2, 2007 10:55 PM:

" And there goes Duh-mocrat again. Once more he produces a story and frames it with half-truths and lies. Now he's posted this little jewel of Evil America supplying arms to Iran! Oh my God! Can this be true! This country is knowingly and willingly supplying arms to our enemies! Well...not quite. What this story is *really* about, is crooked domestic companies buying these weapons and reselling them to our enemies. In other cases our enemies are forming phony front companies in order to buy the weapons. But most importantly, it's about the bureaucratic rules, red tape, and inept practices, that allow this breach of national security to occur in the first place. Which is really ironic because it's Duh's Democrat party that usually want's to *increase* the bureaucracy along with it's incompetent procedures. So here we have Duh-mocrat doing what he does best - lying and distorting his A55 off. Question everything this clown prints, folks. Read the whole story here: http://tinyurl.com/yt8ldq "

Duh wrote on Jun 2, 2007 11:47 PM:

" "I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket." — Major General Smedley Butler, USMC, 1933 -- Two-time recipient of the Congressional Medal of Honor "

Mike P wrote on Jun 3, 2007 12:51 AM:

" New twists to the mix, some how GW realized he has 18 months left, and has no real legacy, in any plus categories, for history to consider his presidency for. Texas just came out as the top emmiter of co2, in the country, so this new found dedication, to a legacy to be more highly regarded for, may pull some strings, and land futuregen in texas. His record on the environment, wouldn't be affected by that, much, but it is almost fitting, that a system, for spewing co2, into a hole in the ground, would be in his back yard. Reality setting in, on how his presidency, would likely be seen, with 18 months left, we are likely to see some way out of the ordinary stunts, actions, and smoke screens, to try to eclipse the previous six and a half years of bungling, and "hunting accidents" the dynamic duo, have put on. Hopefully the first action, of the next president, is to put an end to the electoral college, if it weren't for them, slim and none, could have stayed in texas, and had several consecutive years, of record executions. Stay tuned, the side show, seems to be taking on some new twists, for the duration. "

And don't forget wrote on Jun 3, 2007 4:14 AM:

" under Cheney's leadership, Haliburton sold millions of dollors worth of goods and services to Iraq. "

Duh wrote on Jun 3, 2007 8:04 AM:

" You know, for people who are so all-fired frightened of Muslims, you right wingers do a great job of ignoring the Saudis. Most of the 9-11 hijackers were Saudis, and the money that financed the operation was Saudi, and the still-uncaught criminal mastermind behind it was a Saudi. But you boys are all hot to invade and subugate Iraq and Iran and Syria, which didn't attack the U.S., and perfectly content to ignore the people who did. Now, I know why Bush ignores the Saudis. His family has long served them, perverting U.S. policy to serve Saudi needs in exchange for the Bush family millions. Bush himself holds hands with Saudi princes in public. How else he serves them in private is anybody's guess. But why are all you eager, locked-and-loaded Islamophobes so strangely silent on this topic? Orders from Rove? "

Doh wrote on Jun 3, 2007 10:28 AM:

" Oh my God Duh-mocrat! Are you advocating a ground war against Saudi Arabia? Are you wanting to invade the land of endless oil? I love it! Hey, I'm all for it! But first, you need to make your case in a detailed fashion. We need to see evidence. We need to see Intel. We need to see absolute proof that the Saudi Government knowingly and actively participated in 9/11. You need to prove that this was a State sanctioned act of war. You need to get the approval of that fair and even-handed international body known as the U.N. After all, we don't want to illegally invade a country based on lies and false pretenses just for the sake of imperialist ambitions like the control of the Saudi oil supplies! That's not what you're advocating is it Duh-mocrat? Blood for Oil? Don't get me wrong. I like the idea of cheap oil. But don't you think your Liberal party would have a problem with that? Now get at it Duh! Go for it you little chickenhawk! Make that case! Go Duh! Go! Let's hear it for him folks! By God he's a fighter! "

Billie Brant wrote on Jun 3, 2007 10:40 AM:

" Duh- yes the 911 terrorist's were Saudi's, BUT they WERE Muslims, radical Jihadist Muslim's. "Muslim"does not describe a race. Muslin=the religion of Islam. There are radical Muslims from many different countries who want to overthrow not only our government, but governments word wide. Domination is their goal. Am I leery of all Muslim's, no, but the moderate Muslim's could do and say more to help stifle the fears of the non-Muslim world by speaking out more and with a louder voice against them. To fear your enemy doesn't just mean you are just fearful of what they can do, but fear also means we need to understand and know their capabilities and their willingness to do what they feel they must in order to win. Fear can mean respect. That's not to say we respect their goals but respect in this context means know your enemy. "

Duh wrote on Jun 3, 2007 4:02 PM:

" "From a marketing point of view, you don't introduce new products in August." — White House Chief of Staff Andrew Card in 2003, explaining why "Project Stampede America Into Iraq War II" was introduced in September. As the head of the British Secret Service revealed in the Downing Street memo, the Iraq intelligence was "fixed around the policy" — i.e., tailored to support the already certain invasion. So the truth or falsity of the "intelligence" was irrelevant. Bush lied right down the line, including when he claimed to even consider intelligence data. It was not an intelligence operation. It was a marketing ploy, and was described as such within the White House. The Republicans lied us into war, and some of the Democrats swallowed their lies (Note that some did not, like Dick Durbin). Bush could not only be impeached for this. He could also be imprisoned for treason. "

Mike P wrote on Jun 3, 2007 7:19 PM:

" All this discussion, and still no new direction, but the two extremes, sit pat, and pull out yesterday. Surely both fringes, have something to add to finding a compromise, on the situation, that can send things in a more positive direction, for us, Iraq, and the Middle east. Occupation, of a place that large, and unstable, is a no win stance, for any army. Europe and Russia tried for decades, to do the same thing, in many places like afghanistan, africa, and all over the world. It won't ever work. Gorilla warfare, is not something to send patrols, and convoys through. In the days of sattelite video conferences, stop sending high profile govt figures to those areas. It is an added risk, to the troops, who under the secrecy of the visit, don't even know to expect a rush on the gates, more than usual. The locals that come and go, can tell, when something is up, and there is never going to be a way to allow them in and out, and not risk leaks. We should have toppled, and then let the special forces, do their thing. Not had a continual shooting gallery for the insurgents to rpg, ied, and snipe at. This is one huge training camp, for ossama, and a large recruiting bonanza for him. Getting into iraq, is about as hard as it is for our neighbors to the south come and go as they please. Things need to be done differently, and should have been, much sooner. Saying leave now, or stay the course, is nothing more than a debate of wills. We have 230 + years of history, in fighting wars, conflics, and battles. Some how those in charge, forget the lessons, and sacrifices, that have got us through them. Both sides of the debate on the war, are guilty of extreme blind faith, ignorance, and selfrighteous banter. Everyone in charge, dropped the ball, the administration, the military leaders, and the press. If we do not change our tactics, and make the terrorists, inefective in theirs, this will be a lesson on how to take us on, in the future, which we can not have, come of this. If they suspect IED's are triggered by cellphones, shut all of their service down. IED's should have an exploitable weakness. Our continuing to parade targets, in uniform, and armor, around for people to come and try their skills at, has got to change. Inept management, and planning, has made this, the largest terrorist training grounds ever. A debate, on simply to stay or leave, is not productive, and just widens the chances of compromize, for a more positive outcome. We need to turn this into a reason to not have us, show up. Not show that if we do, this is what to expect, and if you hide through the shock and awe, a short time later, it will be a free for all, and we pay for all the stuff we and they blow up, attitude. "

Duh wrote on Jun 4, 2007 8:04 AM:

" By Charles Sullivan - "In many ways, George W. Bush is the perfect man for the job, if one understands what his real work entails as an emissary of the ruling class. He possesses all of the qualifications the vocation requires: callousness and indifference to the needs of others, the absence of conscience, truncated mental capacity; the inability to reason and to analyze; the incapacity to admit wrong doing; a penchant for cruelty that includes the enjoyment of inflicting pain and torture on others, as well as a powerful sense of nobility and entitlement that stems from being born into wealth and privilege. He is also a pathological liar." "

Doh wrote on Jun 4, 2007 8:27 AM:

" The media and the Leftists have had a field day with the Downing Street memos that they claim imply that the Bush administration lied about the intelligence on WMD in order to justify the attack on Iraq. Despite the fact that none of the memos actually say that, none of them quote any officials or any documents, and the text of the memos *actually* show that the British government worried about *the deployment of WMD by Saddam* against Coalition troops, Kuwait and/or Israel, the memo continues to survive. The eight memos all labeled "secret" or "confidential" were first obtained by British reporter Michael Smith, who has written about them in The Daily Telegraph and The Sunday Times. Smith told the AP in order to protect the identity of the source he had *OBTAINED THE DOCUMENTS BY TYPING COPIES OF THEM ON PLAIN PAPER AND DESTROYING THE ORIGINALS* Riiiigggghhhhtttt! The Downing Street Memos are in fact, another fraudulent attempt (similar to the "George Bush National Guard service record hoax"). They are just another case of "FAKE BUT ACCURATE", where documents get created after the fact to support preconceived notions about what happened in the past. Nothing like lying about evidence to show that Bush lied about evidence. Geez! One fact certainly stands out, Michael Smith cannot authenticate the copies. And absent that authentication, they lose their value as evidence of anything. And the Duh-Mass propaganda train keeps chuggin' along. All Aboard!!! "

Duh wrote on Jun 4, 2007 8:36 AM:

" Here is part of an account of the U.S. use of torture, admitted by one of the torturers. "By Laura Blumenfeld "Washington Post Staff Writer "Monday, June 4, 2007; Page A01 "CHICAGO -- The American interrogator was afraid. Of what and why, he couldn't say. He was riding the L train in Chicago, and his throat was closing. "In Iraq, when Tony Lagouranis interrogated suspects, fear was his friend, his weapon. He saw it seep, dark and shameful, through the crotch of a man's pants as a dog closed in, barking. He smelled it in prisoners' sweat, a smoky odor, like a pot of lentils burning. He had touched fear, too, felt it in their fingers, their chilled skin trembling. "Tony Lagouranis has a CD with photos of some of the prisoners he interrogated in Iraq. He was honorably discharged after a diagnosis of "adjustment disorder." "But on this evening, Lagouranis was back in Illinois, taking the train to a bar. His girlfriend thought he was a hero. His best friend hung out with him, watching reruns of "Hawaii Five-O." And yet he felt afraid. "I tortured people," said Lagouranis, 37, who was a military intelligence specialist in Iraq from January 2004 until January 2005. "You have to twist your mind up so much to justify doing that." "

Duh wrote on Jun 4, 2007 9:12 AM:

" "The effects of isolation, anxiety, fatigue, lack of sleep, uncomfortable temperatures, and chronic hunger produce disturbances of mood, attitudes and behavior in nearly all prisoners. The living organism cannot entirely withstand such assaults. The (Republicans) Communists do not look upon these assaults as 'torture.' But all of them produce great discomfort, and lead to serious disturbances of many bodily processes; there is no reason to differentiate them from any other form of torture... "The (CIA) KGB hardly ever uses manacles or chains, and rarely resorts to physical beatings. The actual physical beating is, of course, repugnant to overt (Republican) Communist principles and is contrary to (CIA) KGB regulations... "Prisoners are tried before "military tribunals," which are not public courts. Those present are only the interrogator, the state prosecutor, the prisoner, the judges, a few stenographers, and perhaps a few officers of the court... "In typical (Republican) Communist legalistic fashion, the (O.L.C.) N.K.V.D. rationalized its use of torture and pressure in the interrogation of prisoners of war. When it desired to use such methods against a prisoner or to obtain from him a propaganda statement or 'confession,' it simply declared the prisoner an enemy combatant a "war-crimes suspect" and informed him that, therefore, he was not subject to international rules governing the treatment of prisoners of war." - "Communist Interrogation," The Annals of Neurology and Psychology, 1956. "

Duh wrote on Jun 4, 2007 9:43 AM:

" From Media Matters — In fact, multiple news organizations have authenticated the (Donwing Street memo) document, which London's Sunday Times first published on May 1. The memo records the minutes of a July 23, 2002, British Cabinet meeting, including British intelligence chief Richard Dearlove's statement that in Washington, "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy." Since the Downing Street memo's publication, several related British documents have been published, which multiple news outlets have also authenticated. Limbaugh's assertion appears to be based on claims circulating on the Internet following a June 18 post on the conservative weblog Little Green Footballs. The claims -- which were repeated on another conservative blog, Captain's Quarters, and subsequently linked to by National Review Online's blog, The Corner, and by the Drudge Report -- arose from a June 18 Associated Press article reporting that "[Michael] Smith [the Times reporter who first revealed the memo] told AP he protected the identity of the source he had obtained the documents from by typing copies of them on plain paper and destroying the originals." But contrary to AP's assertion, Smith has stated publicly that he destroyed copies of the documents and returned the originals. In a June 14 interview with Rawstory.com, Smith described how he first obtained, photocopied, and returned the originals in September 2004. Then, working off of the copies, he reproduced the documents with a typewriter and then destroyed the photocopies (not the originals as the AP reported): "The copying and re-typing were necessary because markings on the originals might have identified his source, Smith said. ... "The situation in Britain is very difficult but with regard to leaked documents the police Special Branch are obliged to investigate such leaks and would have come to the newspaper's office and or my home to confiscate them," he explained. "We did destroy them because the Police Special Branch were ordered to investigate." Captain's Quarters concluded that based on this apparently inaccurate AP account, "One fact certainly stands out -- Michael Smith cannot authenticate the copies. And absent that authentication, they lose their value as evidence of anything" (emphasis in original). But the suggestion by conservatives that the documents were forged is baseless, given the multiple news outlets that have authenticated the existence of the memo and related documents. The Associated Press released excerpts from the memos, including the July 23 memo, on June 18. "The following are excerpts from material in secret Downing Street memos written in 2002. The information, authenticated by a senior British government official, was transcribed from the original documents," the AP wrote. Similarly, NBC chief foreign affairs correspondent Andrea Mitchell reported June 14 on NBC's Nightly News that "war critics have come up with seven more memos verified by NBC News." A June 13 article by Mitchell on MSNBC.com, published before her report aired on the Nightly News, also noted that the memos were "verified by NBC News." "

Blah wrote on Jun 4, 2007 9:44 AM:

" To Doh and Duh: Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. You sound like losers. Why don't you focus your energy on something important - like the lack of dignity and decorum at the Charleston High School graduation last Friday. What a joke. 99 percent of the people there were dressed so badly it wasn't even funny. No respect from most of the graduates either. Now that's newsworthy. Not the garbage you two are talking about. And it is garbage. "

Duh wrote on Jun 4, 2007 11:05 AM:

" I know an illegal, immoral invasion and occupation isn't nearly so important as how people dress at Charleston High School. Thanks for straightening out our priorities. "

Pretty Sad... wrote on Jun 4, 2007 11:20 AM:

" Don't you people have jobs? Nothing better to do than gripe back and forth? Sounds like the rantings of a bunch of retired old men with nothing better to do than watch CNN all day and let their anti-patriotism fester. No matter what your personal beliefs may be, we should ALL be supporting the leader of our nation and the troops fighting for us. "

Duh wrote on Jun 4, 2007 11:43 AM:

" Patriotism remains the last refuge of a scoundrel — of a lot of scoundrels, these days. "

Duh wrote on Jun 4, 2007 11:47 AM:

" "The loud little handful -- as usual -- will shout for the war. The pulpit will -- warily and cautiously -- object -- at first; the great, big, dull bulk of the nation will rub its sleepy eyes and try to make out why there should be a war, and will say, earnestly and indignantly, "It is unjust and dishonorable, and there is no necessity for it." Then the handful will shout louder. A few fair men on the other side will argue and reason against the war with speech and pen, and at first will have a hearing and be applauded; but it will not last long; those others will outshout them, and presently the anti-war audiences will thin out and lose popularity. Before long you will see this curious thing: the speakers stoned from the platform, and free speech strangled by hordes of furious men who in their secret hearts are still at one with those stoned speakers -- as earlier -- but do not dare to say so. And now the whole nation -- pulpit and all -- will take up the war-cry, and shout itself hoarse, and mob any honest man who ventures to open his mouth; and presently such mouths will cease to open. Next the statesmen will invent cheap lies, putting the blame upon the nation that is attacked, and every man will be glad of those conscience-soothing falsities, and will diligently study them, and refuse to examine any refutations of them; and thus he will by and by convince himself that the war is just, and will thank God for the better sleep he enjoys after this process of grotesque self-deception." — Mark Twain "

Doh wrote on Jun 4, 2007 2:35 PM:

" The Liberals who prefer to appease radical Islam, rather than face the Jihadist threat with force, would do well to remember these timely words of wisdom: - "An appeaser is one who feeds a crocodile, hoping it will eat him last." - Winston Churchill "

And People wrote on Jun 4, 2007 2:38 PM:

" Like Duh and Doh are a waste of human space, time and energy. Get jobs and/or lives. Please. "

Blah wrote on Jun 4, 2007 3:08 PM:

" Anything is better than listening to you two. The graduation was the saddest, least dignified event I have ever seen. People looked like crap. I should have worn my best torn shorts and t-shirt for the event. What should we expect from midwest hicks though. Even some of the graduates wore flip-flops! Sickening. All losers. Now that's news. "

Duh wrote on Jun 4, 2007 3:28 PM:

" A military judge has dismissed charges against one of Bush's "enemy combatants." There's nothing sadder than a kangaroo court gone lame. "

True... wrote on Jun 4, 2007 3:30 PM:

" ...but at least Duh makes intelligent points without using vulgarity and name calling. Doh on the other hand... and by the way, since you are an expert on appeasement Doh, how is appeasement working with North Korea, Pakistan, Vietnam, and China? Funny, you throw around terms when they are handy to your distorted little view of the world. You know, terms like: anti-american and treason. "

Doh wrote on Jun 4, 2007 3:30 PM:

" To Blah- if anything is better than listening to me and Duh, then why are you listening? Why don't you get a job or get a life? At least we're debating topics that are relevant to this thread. Is somebody forcing you to read this? "

Duh wrote on Jun 4, 2007 3:41 PM:

" At least George W. Bush comes by his fascism naturally. His grandfather, the late U.S .senator Prescott Bush, was a director and shareholder of companies that profited from their involvement with the financial backers of Nazi Germany. His business dealings continued until his company's assets were seized in 1942 under the Trading with the Enemy Act. "

Flip Flops wrote on Jun 4, 2007 4:20 PM:

" Can you believe that the CHS graduates wore flip flops? Isn't that insane? How degrading to the graduation ceremony. Those punk kids have no idea what life is about - except maybe getting pregnant and going on welfare. Oh yeah, I bet none of them were virgins. Well one was for sure. Parents, get ready to live with your kids for the rest of your life. You obviously didn't have any decorum either. Short-shorts, blue jeans and ripped t-shirts are the next formal wear. Oh yeah, and flip flops. "

Duh wrote on Jun 4, 2007 4:22 PM:

" For the first time in recorded history, I agree with doh. If you don't like the topic of this thread, why are you reading it, much less demanding our silence? "

Seems wrote on Jun 4, 2007 4:22 PM:

" Seems to me Duh and Doh are the ones who need to get lives and jobs. What time wasters they are. And they don't make any sense. AND they turn each blog into their own little vendetta against each other. What morons. "

Duh wrote on Jun 4, 2007 4:24 PM:

" By the way, even though I have disagreed with virtually every opinion of doh's, I have never demanded that he shut up, nor would I ever do that. And I must say, to his credit, he has never done that to me, either. "

Agreed wrote on Jun 4, 2007 4:26 PM:

" If you two idiots agree then meet in person and stop taking up valuable space to voice your ridiculous, meaningless babble. "

Doh wrote on Jun 4, 2007 4:29 PM:

" How is appeasement working with North Korea? - Still a lingering threat. Pakistan? - Hampered our efforts in locating Bin Laden. Vietnam? - over 3 million Vietnamese allies died after we pulled out. And China?- A growing economic and military threat. Did we appease the Japanese in WWII? - No. We bombed the hell out of them. How about the Nazi's? - No. We pounded them into submission. Will the Jihadist's go away if we simply leave them alone? - I have seen absolutely no evidence of that. Have you? And Duh has posted more false phoney-baloney bullcrap than he has anything else. Which must make you an idiot. See that. I even know how to identify an idiot when I hear one. "

Then wrote on Jun 4, 2007 4:30 PM:

" SHUT UP! You are driving all of us nuts! Meet in person and argue there. Maybe you'll fall in love and get married. "

Duh wrote on Jun 4, 2007 4:31 PM:

" Thank you for your offer, but I think I'll stay and post what I like, whenever I like, for as long as I like. And if anyone else doesn't like it, they can fold it twice and put it where the moon don't shine. This remains a free country, at least for the moment. "

Doh wrote on Jun 4, 2007 4:37 PM:

" To Agreed- Duh and I both have every right to post on this thread. If you don't like it, then write a letter and start your own thread. The only thing that I would dislike more than Doh's opinions, is denying him the right to voice those opinions. It's called Freedom of Speech. And if you don't like it, you're in the wrong country- pal! "

OMG! wrote on Jun 4, 2007 4:53 PM:

" Duh and Doh defending each others right to speak out? Did hell just freeze over! "

Duh wrote on Jun 4, 2007 5:40 PM:

" "The only thing that I would dislike more than Doh's opinions, is denying him the right to voice those opinions. It's called Freedom of Speech. And if you don't like it, you're in the wrong country - pal! " Amen. "

Penny's blog is good wrote on Jun 4, 2007 5:48 PM:

" I would recommend everyone to read Penny Weaver's blog today. It says it all about Bush and company. Even Doh might learn something. "

For the shut up character wrote on Jun 4, 2007 5:55 PM:

" This is sort of like TV, if you don't like it, turn it off. Your snide comments are not going to dissuade anyone from posting. Sounds like you're the one who needs to get a life. Keep it up Duh, and Doh! "

Billie Brant wrote on Jun 4, 2007 6:24 PM:

" To Blah and Flip Flops- You sound like negative people period, or perhaps you aren't two people, but one and the same! I'll address my remarks to " both" of you since you seem to have the same nasty mindset! Making general statements about the graduating class in general is asinine! My granddaughter graduated with that class and I assure you) she is NOT a punk! You apparently weren't sitting in the same section I was. Most of the people I saw were dressed just fine. I saw NO torn T-shirts or shorts just nice casual dress( I wore a clean AND pressed skirt and blouse by the way). Maybe there were a few in attendance that didn't dress to suit you( three piece suits for the men and dresses for the ladies), but overall I didn't see anything too outrageous. Not all the kids wore flip flops. I only saw a few that did. My granddaughter wore a nice pair of sandals. So the kids are ALL loser's and hicks? That statement shows how uniformed you are. Tell me to my face my granddaughter is a loser and a hick you anonymous jerk's! My granddaughter is enrolled in college and wants to further her education so she can become a productive member of society as we have taught her is the right thing to do. Your blanket statement about the kids virginity or lack of it is not only insulting, it's stupid! I want to know what chrystal ball you've been gazing into that lets you see into their private lives! Perhaps some of the kids haven't led pristeen lives, but to condemn a whole graduating class because you have a sour outlook on life is beyond ridiculous! Who's the hick here?....Sorry Early Bird. I fell off the "civil wagon"! I find it difficult to be civil to ASSine people like these two! "

Jake wrote on Jun 4, 2007 6:39 PM:

" If you are going to read Penny's blogs, read the one concerning the Virginia Tech tragedy and the comment following it. Why didn't Penny respond to it? There are all kinds of prejudice. "

Flip Flops wrote on Jun 4, 2007 6:53 PM:

" I am my own person, thank you. To wear anything but a nice dress and slacks is a disgrace and disgusting. It was the most irreverent, distasteful graduation I've ever been to. No dignity. To wear flip flops to your graduation is disgusting. You need to pull your head out and reexamine what is appropriate dress and grooming for such an event. Most people there were NOT dressed appropriately. Period. What a way to say congratulations. It just shows the ways of the world - sloppy and slovenly. How disgusting. Those teenagers have no idea what life is about. Most of them ARE punks, hoodlums and immoral. "

Billie Brant wrote on Jun 4, 2007 7:18 PM:

" By the way, what prompted these two hick hater's to get so far off topic anyway? While I realize discussions can have a ripple in the pond effect when a stone is thrown in it, but a high school graduation and a discussion about the war in Iraq, don't seem to share the same pond... I suspect they didn't have anything better to do with their time, so they decided to be bottom feeder's and throw insults at some of the poster's and while on a roll they thought it would be fun to insult a whole graduating class and their families,except their EXCEPTIONAL families of course who have to survive with all of the hicks here! It might be wise for them to leave Hicksville and find a community more suitable to their way of thinking IF that's possible. I've found that most people in all manner of small towns and big cities( I've lived in a large metropolitan city) don't like jerks, period, hicks or not! Get back on topic you two, or at least close to it for Pete's sake if you have the gray matter to do so! "

Now Billie wrote on Jun 4, 2007 7:52 PM:

" I don't think anyone assigned you to the monitor position on this site, did they? You sure are getting bossy lately, and it all started about the same time you started blubbering about how wonderful Doh was. What's going one there, by the way? "

I'll bet wrote on Jun 4, 2007 7:54 PM:

" that Billie liked to be hall monitor in school too. "

Billie Brant wrote on Jun 4, 2007 9:32 PM:

" I'll bet she didn't want to be a hall moniter and never was ! It just ticks me off when jerks make a blanket condemnation of a graduating class because some didn't measure up to their standards of dress. I saw plenty of people who WERE dressed appropiately (to Flips and Blah's) standards)my family among them. Perhaps if he hadn't been so busy focusing in on the ones he thought weren't dressed properly, he might have seen more who were. Slacks are accepted dress for women these days too Flip! We don't HAVE to wear dresses if we don't want to! I wore a skirt because in really warm weather I find one more comfortable than slacks... While there was a spattering of noisy people in the crowd when "their" graduate's names were called, for the most part it was ok. I'll wager "Hicksville" Coles County is not the only place where this has happened. Get real! To call most of those kids punks and losers is NOT ok. I happen to know many of those kids and they are not the punks and loser's described by Flip and Blah! Now Flip has added that MOST are immoral and that they are hoodlums to his assessment of the class. As far as Doh is concerned, I happen to agree with most of what he has to say. Case closed, nothing more "going on". So get your mind out of the gutter! "

Flip Flops wrote on Jun 4, 2007 11:29 PM:

" So are you blind? Maybe 1% of those there were dressed appropriately. Blue jeans are not dignified apparel for a graduation. Shorts either. Or flip flops. It was completely offensive. No dignity. That's my opinion and I'm not changing it. The lack of appreciation for a dignified occasion proves it is hickville. I wonder how many are pregnant already? Case closed! "

Earl;y Bird wrote on Jun 5, 2007 5:42 AM:

" You're right Billie, Google: Galesburg Illinois HS graduation problems, and read all about it. Looks like us folks in Hicks-ville aren't alone. Congratulations to your granddaughter and daughter. We will be traveling to the east coast to see our granddaughter graduate soon. They start much later in the year, so their graduation ceremony isn't until the end of June. "

Billie Brant wrote on Jun 5, 2007 6:45 AM:

" Congratulations to your granddaughter Early Bird. Have a safe trip. The traffic is a lot more congested on the east coast. We in Hicksville aren't used to it. Lol! "

Doh wrote on Jun 5, 2007 8:24 AM:

" Billie- as always, great to hear from you! Thanks to you and Rotty and all who share our side of the debate. I'm proud to be among true fighters like you guys! "

Duh wrote on Jun 5, 2007 9:09 AM:

" Now that we've learned the PR stunt "surge" have produced a Baghdad that is three-quarters out of control, let's review Bush's accomplishments, shall we? "Iraq has become a case study in anarchy," Cenk Uygar wrote."I don't know how George Bush sleeps at night. You'd have to be a monster to rest easy, knowing what he's done. I'm not sure one man's sloth has ever caused so much harm. My God man, if you didn't want to be president, why did you apply for the job? "What a hideous combination of conceits Bush has. He has the ego that drives him to want to be the top man. He has the arrogance to think that he his qualified. But he has the laziness that makes him not want to actually do the job. He has the insecurity that makes him want to cover up his faults. He has the smallness of character that will not concede his weaknesses and seek out help. He has the hubris to think that he could cover up all this, run the world into the ground and think that people won't notice. How has the world fallen into the grasp of this tiny, tiny man?" How? The answer is through the complete corruption of the Republican Party, from its beer-sodden redneck grassroots to its sociopathic criminal plutocrats. "

Doh wrote on Jun 5, 2007 12:46 PM:

" Please allow me Duh, to point out a very pertinent fact, that you seem to be unaware of: The last 5 brigades of the troop surge just arrived in Iraq last week. So how in the hell can you, or anyone else, draw any kind of meaningful conclusions on the effectiveness of the new strategy this early in the operation? "

Billie Brant wrote on Jun 5, 2007 12:48 PM:

" Hey Duh! I like a cold beer now and then! What's wrong with that? While my neck may not be a flaming red shade it is extremely hot pink at times!! (smile) "

Doh wrote on Jun 5, 2007 3:12 PM:

" Well Billie, I'm partial to a fine 18 year old scotch and I don't listen to country music. And I thank God each and everyday for you beer-sodden redneck's. Because together- we get'er done. "

Billie Brant wrote on Jun 5, 2007 4:22 PM:

" Ah, no Country Music Doh? That's too bad. I like it, in fact I've performed it for years( semi-retired now) around here although I don't have a "country voice", more suited for blues. It's not the only kind of music I like and have done though. I was born too late to be a big band singer. This may be one of the few things we DON'T agree on! Lol!... Contrary to what some think(beer sodden rednecks)and a few other's around here forced to live amongst hicks believe,all of us don't dress and behave like Hee Haw alumni! AND for the ones that prefer that style, go for it! This is America!.. My grandpa could have been called a redneck hick, but he was one of the smartest and most honest men I've ever known. What a whiz he was with math, and only with a 5th grade education! He used it daily in his line of work. He was a carpenter. That man could figure in his head and come up with the answer faster than most could write the problem down and compute it. He was well read and could discuss just about anything intellegently. He educated himself long before the days of TV. The method he used was READING! This is almost a lost "art" among many today. He had good grammer and a love for words. He's gone now about 50 years , but his love of reading and learning is something I remember about him to this day. So, rednecks can be smart too! He loved politics and was a die hard Republican, although he told me he had never voted a straight ticket in his life. He said there's always a snake or two in the party he couldn't vote for. It was interesting in my family because we had die hard Democrats too so I got a dose of both party's. "

Doh wrote on Jun 5, 2007 5:01 PM:

" Well what do you know Billie! I listen to classic Blues and Big Band on Directv all the time. My parents liked two kinds of music: Country. And Western. *wink* My siblings were partial to The Beatles and the Rolling Stones and I was heavily into Queen. "A Night at the Opera" was *the* album for me! I met a girl while I was in college who turned me on to Patsy Cline. You gotta love Patsy! Her voice has an old Delta Blues quality that works well in Country Music. I also love Classical. There's nothing like Vivaldi's "The Four Seasons" on a brilliant Spring morning! Hmmmmmm I wonder where I belong in the Republican spectrum? "

Billie Brant wrote on Jun 5, 2007 7:39 PM:

" Add "Rhapsody on a Theme of Paganini" by Rachmanioff to that classical list! Awesome! That's fairly decent musical taste for a beer-sodden redneck don't cha think? Oh! I like the music written for organ by Bach and Buxtehude also! There's nothing like hearing this great music played full tilt on a REAL pipe organ in a church with great acoustic's. I can't remember all the titles to this great stuff, but I know when I hear it, it almost sends me to another realm! Hicks like great classical music too along with "Cotton Eyed Joe" Yee Haw! Oops, we got off topic again and I'm the guilty party this time. Sorry! This site has cussed and discussed about all we're going to anyway without being redundant. Time to go to another one! "

Doh wrote on Jun 5, 2007 7:57 PM:

" MORE GOODNEWS FROM IRAQ. OUR MILITARY HAS REACHED AN ALLIANCE WITH FORMER IRAQI ENEMIES TO BATTLE AGAINST AL QAEDA: - ("U.S. forces have begun conducting joint patrols with Sunni resistance fighters in the Sunni enclave of Amiriyah where a group of local leaders have banded together to fight al-Qaeda, U.S. Army officials said Tuesday. Major Chris Rogers, executive officer of the 1st Battalion, 5th Cavalry Regiment of the 1st Cavalry Division, responsible for Amiriyah, said soldiers acting on information provided by the fighters had detained five suspected al-Qaeda members in overnight raids and were holding them for questioning. He said the group had decided it did not want to be known as ‘the Baghdad Patriots’ the name given to it by U.S. forces. “They decided they want to be called freedom fighters,” Rogers said.")- Read it here - http://tinyurl.com/2osw3p "

Duh wrote on Jun 6, 2007 2:41 PM:

" "The present war is a bad war," wrote conservative columnist Charley Reese, whose column used to run in this newspaper. " It is not being fought to protect freedom, let alone the American people. Poor Cindy Sheehan, who bravely protested the war, finally gave up. She felt betrayed by the Democrats, by the anti-war movement, but the saddest thing of all, she said, was that she finally faced the fact her son died for nothing." "And sad as it is to say, it's true. The politicians and some of the media chicken hawks like to fork the fertilizer talking abou sacrifices for freedom (sacrifices most of them studiously avoid ever making), but it's just fertilizer. "Why did we go to war in Iraq? Because the president hated Saddam Hussein; because the Israeli lobby wanted us to; because the crazy neoconservatives had the insane idea that the Middle East could be democratized at the point of a gun; because oil companies and other corporations lusted for profit. "Missing is any threat to the safety and freedom of the United States, a threat no Iraqi ever made or ever had the capability of carrying out. So, if you don't want to say the kids are dying for nothing, you can say they are dying for Halliburton, for ExxonMobil, for the president's ego, for a cockamamie theory of a bunch of academics, for Israel, for money or for oil. What you cannot truthfully say is that they are dying for freedom." "